asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if she will give an estimate of the number of persons drawing unemployment benefit at the latest available date classified as unemployable; and how many professional persons retiring before the age at which they become entitled to a state retirement pension are signing on at employment exchanges but not genuinely seeking work.

The answer to the first part of the Question is that no one who is receiving unemployment benefit is classified as unemployable. On the second part of the Question, no such statistics are available.

But does not the right hon. Lady realise that, on the second part of the Question, a great deal of concern is caused particularly in areas where large numbers of people are discharged by large organisations at a relatively early age who go on drawing unemployment benefit although there is little prospect of them being employed? Will she ask her advisers to look at this problem, because obviously it will be a growing one?

I agree very much with what the hon. Gentleman has said. There is no doubt that many people are worried about this matter. What I hope to say on the Second Reading of the National Insurance Bill today will, perhaps, relieve the hon. Gentleman's mind a little.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether she will take action to ensure that the rules relating to payment of rent are extended to mortgage repayments in the case of deserted wives seeking National Assistance.

The National Assistance rent rule which is prescribed in Regulations empowers the National Assistance Board to provide for mortgage interest but not for repayments of capital. The rule has been in existence since 1948 and it would be wrong to treat repayments of capital in the same way as mortgage interest. The Board has discretionary powers, however, which it can use where necessary to prevent hardship where a recipient of national assistance has to continue making refunds of mortgage capital.

Is my hon. Friend aware of the plight of many deserted wives whose husbands refuse to make repayments on the mortgage and who also have to pay rates? Will he try to find some way of helping people in this unfortunate position, perhaps by instructing local offices of the National Assistance Board to be more generous in their provision?

I appreciate my hon. Friend's concern in this matter. I have been in correspondence with him about it. In addition to cases of deserted wives, we have widows, the sick, and so forth, who are also concerned. But, as I pointed out, in exceptional cases the Board tries to relieve hardship for these people. My hon. Friend's supplementary question will be drawn to the Board's attention.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance how many claims were allowed in 1965 for industrial injuries insurance in respect of prescribed diseases, and how many were rejected.

I regret that the precise information requested is not available, but it is estimated that there were in the latest periods of twelve months for which we have figures for prescribed diseases, about 28,000 awards of injury benefit, some 2,000 initial awards of disablement pension, including about 1,500 for pneumoconiosis, and about 3,000 initial awards of disablement gratuity. In addition, there were about 750 awards of death benefit, of which about 700 were in respect of pneumoconiosis.

Is my hon. Friend aware that a great deal of hardship is being caused to those people who suffer from diseases which neither are prescribed nor come about as a result of an accident? Could not something be done to tighten up the law to stop this loophole whereby people in this position are deprived of benefit so that all those suffering from illness caused by employment are entitled to benefit?

I assure my hon. Friend that, on both sides of the House, many of us have been aware of this problem for many years. I hope, however, that he will accept from me that we are doing our utmost, in great difficulties, to try to get a complete answer to the question of prescribed diseases. It will take time; I assure my hon. Friend that we are not wasting time.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance in what percentage of cases going before Industrial Injuries Tribunals where specialist evidence is given on behalf and in support of the appellant the appeals are turned down.

I regret that this information is not available.

Is my hon. Friend aware that medical support for these appeals is of very little account and that as a consequence consultants and trade union officials alike are becoming quite cynical about this? Would he not agree that when there is a conflict of opinion between eminent medical men the appellant should be given the benefit of the doubt?

I hope my hon. Friend does not assume from the brevity of my Answer that I intended to be cynical. The fact is that the figures asked for would be of little significance because consultants are employed on both sides.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance what is the value of the pension in real terms at the latest date, compared with May 1963, after the increase in pensions had been made.

At current prices the present retirement pension rates of 80s. (single) and 130s. (for a couple) are worth 5s. l0d. and 10s. 4d. more, respectively, than the 67s. 6d. and 109s. rates introduced in May 1963.

Does this figure contain an allowance for the 50 per cent. increase in water rates which some old-age pensioners are having to bear as a result of the last Budget? Would the hon. Gentleman please say how he arrived at these figures?

This figure covers everything in the index of retail prices. Despite an increase in prices, the purchasing power of the retirement pension today is at a higher level than it was at any time during the 13 years of Tory rule.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance what consideration is being given to the provision of a State pension for civilian disabled persons other than those entitled to industrial injury benefit.

I would refer the hon. Lady to the replies I gave to the hon. Member for Bournemouth, West (Sir J. Eden) on 31st January.

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that it would be much better to give these people a definite pension, particularly, for instance, victims of polio, on similar lines to what is done for the blind rather than that they should have to go to National Assistance for their weekly allowances?

I am aware of the hon. Lady's concern in these matters, and she will, I know, appreciate that my right hon. Friends the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and the Minister have personally assured the bodies interested in this problem that the difficulties of the chronic sick and the disabled will be fully examined and considered in our review of social security provisions.

Can the hon. Gentleman say exactly what research into numbers and extent of disability, particularly so far as the problem applies to old people, is going on in his right hon. Friend's Department or the Department of the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster?

All this is being considered in the investigations which are now taking place in the social security review.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance why the plans for half-pay on retirement and a minimum income guarantee have now been postponed.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Bromley (Mr. Hunt) on 22nd November, and to the statement which my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer made to the House on 27th July last.

In view of the fact that I do not know what that Answer was, may I ask the right hon. Lady whether it would not be fairer to make a statement about the delay, because during the General Election the whole country was advised that these two schemes were costed and ready to be implemented? More than that, in view of the fact that a year ago, when hon. Members opposite filibustered the Private Member's Bill of my hon. Friend the Member for Abingdon (Mr. Neave)—

Order. This supplementary question is getting too long.

What a pity it is that if the hon. Member is so interested in these matters he did not look up the reply which was given on the very same question and that he did not read my right hon. Friend's statement. As to the previous Bill, nothing that has been said by anyone on his own Front Bench shows that they will be giving help indiscriminately to people in the future.

In connection with the provision of a State pension for civilian disabled persons, would not my right hon. Friend agree that a first step which would afford relief would be if she could remove the charges on surgical boots, stockings and other items?

Order. That is a supplementary question on the earlier Question.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether she will now make further relaxations in the earnings rule, in view of the increase in the cost of living.

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance why the definition of net earnings which may be disregarded for the purpose of the operation of the earnings rule allows the deduction of Income Tax payable under the Pay-As-You-Earn scheme but not Income Tax payable under Cases I and II of Schedule D; and whether she will introduce legislation to rectify this anomaly.

I would ask the hon. Gentleman to await my speech a little later this afternoon, when I hope to say something relevant to this matter.

Does the Minister realise that she gave a very ambiguous statement in her recent television broadcast when it appeared that she had abolished the earnings rule altogether? When, indeed, will the Minister abolish the earnings rule, as she promised at the last election?

What the hon. Member has said in the last part of his supplementary question is quite untrue. No statement was made before last election that the earnings rule would be abolished for pensioners. I am sorry that the hon. Member was not able to listen clearly to what I said in the broadcast concerning widows.

Would not the right hon. Lady recognise that the anomaly to which Question No. 10 draws attention is totally unjustifiable and that there can be no logic in differentiating between pensioners by reference to the method by which tax is deducted from their pay on their other earnings?

Perhaps the hon. Member will be present when I deal with the Second Reading of the National Insurance Bill later this afternoon.

asked the Minister of Health the total quantity and the total value of the foodstuffs which were condemned by his inspectors as a result of floodwater at the Parade, Hadley, Wellington, Shropshire.

None, Sir. Under the Food and Drugs Act, 1955, food inspection is the responsibility of local authorities and condemnation, if called for, is the function of a justice of the peace. I am informed that in this instance action to condemn was unnecessary. I am sending the hon. Member a list of goods voluntarily surrendered.

Is the Minister aware that his Department of State in supervising matters of health at local government level and above is very much lacking and that many people would appreciate his Department having far more powers in dealing with matters like this?

I should not like to enter into a discussion at this stage as to the correctness or otherwise of our powers. In the incident in question, however, as the hon. Member knows, the foodstuff was voluntarily surrendered by the traders and there does not appear to me to have been the slightest difficulty.

asked the Minister of Health when the 1962 report on the valuation of the National Health Service Superannuation Scheme will be published.

Tomorrow, when copies will be placed in the Library.

asked the Minister of Health whether he still expects the Registrar General's special study into the regional differences in infant mortality to be published by mid-1966.

Yes, Sir.

Can the hon. Gentleman amplify his Answer a little more? Is the report likely to be available in the earlier part of the summer, or in the later part?

I do not think that one can amplify the Answer to this Question. I was merely asked whether I "still expect". We do expect and hope that the report will be published in mid-1966. We hope to get it as soon as possible.

asked the Minister of Health the present estimated size of the coloured population of Great Britain, and what it is expected to be in 1970 and 1980, respectively, if no further net increase in immigration takes place.

I regret that it is not possible to make these estimates.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the previous Home Secretary and his predecessors made such estimates and that it is of public interest to know what the position is? Why has he decided to give no answer to this Question, more especially as it was put in the first place not to the Minister of Health but to the Home Secretary?

The Question asks whether we can estimate the size of the coloured population. Any examination of the implications of that question will clearly indicate that the only possible basis on which one could establish any analysis through census would be the basis of the country in which people were born. Consequently, it seems fairly obvious to me that a lot of children may well be born in other countries to white parents when the father is serving in the Forces or who are abroad for other reasons. Conversely a similar problem arises concerning children who are born of coloured people in this country and are registered in Great Britain. It is almost impossible to get this information.

Is the Minister aware that his answer was so complicated that it was very difficult to follow? [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh, no."] Is it not absolutely true that his predecessor did volunteer information of this kind, and is it not also true that it is essential for a study of the problems which arise out of immigration to have some information of this kind?

No. I think the hon. Gentleman must recognise that there is an essential difference between making an estimate of the immigrants and making an estimate of coloured population. The migration figure will obviously include people who are white or pink, as the case may be, and if the hon. Gentleman wants information in respect of coloured people—which I would not want anyway—but if he does want it, then I say to him that it is virtually impossible to have it.

asked the Minister of Health if he will take steps to control the import of drink-coolers filled, with water from abroad, such as pink elephants, so as to reduce the chances of contamination.

My right hon. Friend has no powers to do so, but I understand that the Hong Kong Government have asked manufacturers and exporters temporarily to suspend production and export. My right hon. Friend is considering with my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary whether any further action is required.

Is it not a fact that the United States have banned the importation of these pink elephants, and would it not be safer to do the same?

I do not know whether we in this House have any jurisdiction over the acts of the United States of America. We are concerned with the position in this country, and my right hon. Friends are considering what action can be taken.

Forgetting the fundamental reasons for seeing pink elephants, may I ask my hon. Friend whether a special acknowledgment or letter of thanks has been sent to the Medical Officer of Health for the city of Bristol who first brought this danger to the notice of his Department and the country?

Frankly, I do not know whether a letter of thanks has been sent to the Medical Officer of Health for Bristol, but I take this opportunity of paying tribute to him now.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether, in the interests of safety, he would support the quickest possible turning of these pink elephants into white elephants?

Would my hon. Friend treat this question seriously? Does he realise that far too many pink elephants are seen in this country already?

asked the Minister of Health what study he has made of the structure of prices of dentures and prosthetic work and of wages of dental technicians; and if he will take steps to improve conditions in dental laboratories.

I have no responsibility for the prices charged by commercial dental laboratories for dentures and other prosthetic work or for the wages of dental technicians employed by them. Wages are negotiated through the appropriate joint negotiating body. As regards the last part of the Question, I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour on 12th July, 1965, to the hon. Member for Westhoughton (Mr. J. T. Price).

Even if my right hon. Friend has no technical responsibility, is not he aware that there is a great deal of feeling, and will he discuss with his right hon. Friend what can be done about it?

If there is feeling, I suggest that my hon. Friend puts down a Question to my right hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will initiate an inquiry into the scope and practice in this country of so-called Scientology, and the practice of psychology for fee or reward by persons who have no medical or psychological qualifications.

No, Sir.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the commercial practice of psychology by unqualified persons could be very dangerous indeed for certain mentally disordered people? In view of the scathing criticism by an official board of inquiry in Australia into the so-called practice of Scientology, surely the right hon. Gentleman considers that it is in the public interest to hold a similar type of inquiry in this country?

I am prepared to consider any demand for an inquiry, but I have not had one yet. I am aware that extravagant claims are made on behalf of Scientology, which are not generally accepted, and for my part I would advise anyone who is considering a course of this kind to go to his doctor first.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there will be some support among some Members on this side of the House for this general proposition, that an examination of advertisements in some free-thinking journals might elucidate the general picture for him in the sense that there are people who attract a large number of clients by almost fraudulent claims to have a medical background?

As my hon. Friend probably knows, the law does not prohibit anyone from practising medicine or surgery, with one or two limited exceptions. Unless he is registered as a doctor, no one may call himself a doctor, or imply that he is registered. If anybody has evidence that this society—or the members of it—is doing that, I hope that he will communicate with me.

asked the Minister of Health how many women have had the protective cervical test during each of the past three years; and how many are on the waiting list.

I regret that the information is not available. From December, 1964, to June, 1965, the number of tests per month rose from 39,000 to nearly 51,000, an annual rate of over 600,000. The returns for December, 1965, are not yet complete.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply, but does not he realise that there is strong feeling in the country, especially among women, that during the past 14 years not enough has been done by Governments in diagnosing cervical cancer? Does not my right hon. Friend also realise that unless more is done on this issue there will be great feeling against this Government, even though my right hon. Friend has done better than previous Governments did? Will my right hon. Friend make certain that he is judged by deeds and not by words?

We may have been slow in starting this, but I think that progress during the last couple of years has been very considerable. In that part of my hon. Friend's constituency which is covered by the Doncaster Hospital Management Committee, a full service is already available, and in that part covered by Rotherham and Mexborough a full service will be available at the end of this year, so my hon. Friend is perhaps rather fortunately situated.

Is the Minister aware that, despite the progress which has been made, there is still considerable anxiety about this matter in the Western Region? Will he do what he can to speed things up?

I am always encouraging regional boards to speed up this provision. I am told that by the end of this year routine services should be readily available for well over half the population at risk.

As the main difficulty is the continuing shortage of technicians, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman's attention has been drawn to the remarkable Brighton cancer project where somewhat unconventional methods of recruiting the necessary bodies have been highly successful and have had the full support of the local medical profession and the hospital services? Will the Minister look into that and see whether that idea can be adopted elsewhere?

I am aware of it, and I shall see whether it is possible to extend it, but we feel that cytology ought to be practised by those who are doing pathology in the ordinary way rather than that people should do nothing but cytology all the time.

asked the Minister of Health what would be the estimated cost of making overtime payments to state registered nurses employed in the hospital service.

The cost would depend on the circumstances.

The Minister of Health is obviously not doing very well this afternoon in trying to provide figures.

Question, please.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman, in view of the discussions which have taken place on this matter, whether he discussed it with the professional organisations concerned? Will he bear in mind that a lot of part-timers are paid on an hourly basis, which is having an effect on permanent nursing staff, who feel they are being penalised?

We always try to give intelligent answers to intelligent questions. The fact is that a very large number of factors are involved, all of which are variable, in trying to reach an estimate—the circumstances in which overtime rates are payable, the rates for overtime, the grades in which it is payable, the policy adopted by individual hospitals. In reply to the second part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, no claim for overtime payment has yet been received from either side of the Nurses and Midwives Whitley Council.

Can my right hon. Friend say at this juncture whether he accepts the principle of overtime payments and whether he is keeping his mind very much open on the point?

My mind is always open.

As his mind is always open, will the right hon. Gentleman initiate discussions with the professional organisations representing nurses and midwives? Would he not agree that that would be very helpful to us in that we should then know in what direction we are going?

If a claim is officially submitted we can then consider the best course of action to take.

asked the Minister of Health how much of the money allocated to hospital building for the present financial year will be spent on new hospitals and major reconstruction schemes, and how much on smaller improvement schemes.

I would refer the hon. Member to Appendix IV to the published Estimate for the Hospital Services.

Is the Minister satisfied that a sufficiently high proportion of the resources available for hospital building is going into comparatively moderate expenditure on schemes which can speedily be done and which can make an enormous difference to the working of existing hospitals?

Yes I think this is important, and I have no reason whatever to believe that the amounts spent on large and small works, respectively, are in any way out of balance. Certainly I have called the attention of hospital boards to this matter.

Would my right hon. Friend bear in mind, in his revision, that if new hospitals are to be built there may have to be a quite ruthless look at some small, uneconomic units of hospital services, and will he issue directions to local hospital boards accordingly?

We do not normally issue directions to hospital boards, but I will certainly bear my hon. Friend's point in mind.

asked the Minister of Health what steps he is taking to speed up the work on the building of Basildon Hospital.

The essential preparatory work is proceeding with all possible speed.

Is the Minister aware that the plans for this hospital are now completed, the site is ready and there is nothing, except the absence of the Minister's decision, to excuse further delay in starting work on the ground?

I am not so sure that it is wholly the Minister's decision, but I can assure the hon. and learned Gentleman that we want to go ahead with this as quickly as possible. The officers of the Department are in touch with the regional hospital board, and have been at all stages; but, as I say, we are trying to proceed with all speed.

asked the Minister of Health what steps are being taken to augment the maternity services available at St. Andrew's Hospital, Billericay.

It is not practicable to do so at this hospital, but a new unit at Orsett will open shortly, and other units being planned at other existing hospitals and at the new hospital at Basildon will materially augment the service for the area.

Is it not a fact that these maternity services provided in this area are grossly over-burdened and that the key to the problem is the building of a new hospital at Basildon? Is not this a reason why building should begin as soon as possible?

We are agreed that the maternity services are not all that we would desire them to be, but we think that it should be possible to start work on the new Basildon hospital, the first phase of which will contain a maternity unit, in 1967. In the meantime we are doing what we can to provide alternative services.

asked the Minister of Health (1) whether he is aware of the widespread dissatisfaction being expressed by junior hospital medical staff about the terms and conditions of their employment; and what action he proposes to take to improve their situation;

asked the Minister of Health (1) if he is satisfied with the conditions of work and amenities available to junior medical staff at Wythenshawe Hospital, Manchester; and if he will make a statement;

asked the Minister of Health (1) if he is satisfied with the conditions of work, amenities and accommodation available for junior medical staffs employed at Stockport

asked the Minister of Health (1) if he is aware of the inadequate pay and conditions of the junior hospital doctors at the Salford Royal Infirmary; and if he will take steps to improve them;

I am aware that the living and working conditions of junior hospital medical staff at many hospitals in the Manchester Region are less than satisfactory and, in particular, that much of the residential accommodation is below the standards in Building Note No. 24, which relates to new hospital buildings. Both the regional hospital board and the board of governors are aware of the position and within the resources available to them are trying to remedy it, but in some cases the only permanently satisfactory solution is new building. On remuneration, I would refer my hon. Friends to the answer I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Willesden, West (Mr. Pavitt) on 15th November, 1965. Conditions of service are a matter for the Medical and (Hospital) Dental Whitley Council.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that this is a problem which grows increasingly urgent and that there is urgent need to find a solution to it? Is he aware that the consequences of the situation are that posts in Manchester hospitals remain unfilled, posts which until very recently, as, for instance, in orthopaedics, were competitive, lots of people wanting the job? Is he further aware that junior doctors are increasingly being tempted away—to emigrate to Canada and the United States—and also that the supply of Commonwealth doctors is drying up? There is also widespread resentment about deductions from their somewhat unsatisfactory salary scale for accommodation. Every effort should be made to bring up the standards of their accommodation in hospitals. It is a matter of urgency.

I would not accept that the supply of doctors from the Commonwealth is drying up. I have no evidence of that at the moment. I accept that there is a position here which needs improving, but I would point out to my hon. Friend that in Manchester Royal Infirmary, the particular hospital to which he refers, residential accommodation is better than in many other hospitals in the region, although I agree there is need for married accommodation.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the conditions in the two Stockport hospitals are among the worst in the Manchester Region? Would he take a special interest in this matter and see what can be done to help the junior staffs at both these hospitals?

I agree that the provision generally is of poor quality in Stockport, although I am told that two houses have been bought since 1960 in order to supplement this provision.

Would my right hon. Friend look at the position of the Salford Royal Infirmary and particularly the accommodation which is provided for doctors there, which is very inadequate and very unsatisfactory? Perhaps he would examine that against the boarding fees and see whether something urgent could be done.

My hon. Friend did not ask about accommodation at this hospital, but if he likes to put down a Question about that I will do my best to answer it. On remuneration and boarding charges, these are matters for the independent review body in the first instance.

On a point of order. If my right hon. Friend looks at my Question he will see that it mentions "conditions". They include accommodation.

That may be a point for the Minister but it is not a point of order for the Chair.

As at least one of these Questions goes wider than those hospitals which so far have immediately been referred to, and without necessarily accepting all the representations which the Minister has so far received from some of those representing junior staff, may I ask him whether he is satisfied with the present machinery for the representation of their views?

I am satisfied that the Review Body has been made fully aware of the feelings of junior hospital doctors.

asked the Minister of Health when he intends to authorise the building alterations to the central block of Fulbourn Hospital which he postponed last year.

The scheme was postponed by the regional hospital board because it could not be contained within their capital allocation. I would ask the hon. Member to await the result of the current review of the hospital plan.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware of the greatly improved results that have been achieved at this hospital over the years and of the enthusiasm that there is for making further progress, and may I ask him why this particular project has suffered such a long postponement?

The reason for the postponement was obviously that the regional hospital board had to effect its priorities. The hon. Gentleman knows that this scheme is very well worth while and very necessary but is one that cannot possibly have the highest possible priority in the regional hospital board's overall programme. I feel sure that the regional hospital board will be getting on with the job as soon as it can.

asked the Minister of Health why the new maternity unit at Northgate, Yarmouth, has been delayed.

This scheme has not been delayed and building work is expected, as planned, to begin later this year.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that that is contrary to local information, in that the regional hospital board was told to go ahead with a pre- fabricated building, which went out to tender, that it received tenders and was then told by the Ministry that it could not go ahead?

There were possible delays and difficulties, we felt, which could have arisen if the building method originally proposed had been adopted, and it has now been decided to build conventionally. But I am very glad to have this opportunity of setting right the local misunderstanding of this matter.

asked the Minister of Health what action he proposes to take to provide more maternity beds at Lowestoft.

I would refer the hon. Member to the answer my hon. Friend gave him on 19th July last.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that that answer gave no satisfaction at all in my constituency, that this is a very serious problem, and that the delay in the building of the new maternity ward at Great Yarmouth is giving rise to a great deal of concern in my constituency? The Prime Minister himself, when Leader of the Opposition, went on record as saying that he would do everything in his power to speed up maternity accommodation. Why has he not done so?

I understood that the hon. Gentleman accepted that the right solution was to build at Great Yarmouth, and I assure him that the building of the new unit there is expected to start in August and to be finished in 1968.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that a state registered nurse who decides to train in midwifery under the present regulations suffers a reduction in salary and allowances; and whether he will refer this anomaly to the Nurses and Midwives Whitley Council.

The Council has already made an agreement by which hospital authorities may second qualified nurses who are willing to train and subsequently to work as midwives. In these circumstances remuneration is not reduced.

If a nurse volunteers to do a course of training to improve her qualifications, surely it is wrong for her to be penalised?

I think that there is some misunderstanding about this. This is not a higher qualification, it is a different one, and many nurses take this qualification while not intending to practise midwifery at all. In these circumstances, I do not think it is appropriate that she should go on being paid as a working nurse while she is a student.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that this distinction which he has made of a different qualification is very great? She is trying to qualify herself more for work which she may be doing. Will the right hon. Gentleman reconsider what my right hon. Friend said?

The point is that where she is willing to do midwifery the hospital can arrange for her to be seconded without loss of pay. I assure the right hon. Gentleman that this matter has been raised with innumerable Ministers of Health since I have been in the House.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the important thing in life today is for people to get the maximum number of qualifications which they possibly can? Why make this distinction? It is perfectly idiotic.

I could not accept that, because if the nurse in question is not intending to make use of this additional qualification—

She might.

she is lost to active nursing for the duration of the course.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what estimate he has made of the numbers of trained social workers required in the public services other than those controlled by the local authorities; and what prospects there are of training them.

First, probation and after-care officers in England and Wales number about 2,400. By 1970 some 3,500 will be needed. Second, hospitals in England and Wales employ about 1,050 medical and psychiatric social workers. More are needed and hospitals are being asked to review their social work organisation and to implement a new grading structure which will facilitate joint services with local authorities. Training facilities for all these services are being expanded and should be adequate.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that information, does he not feel that the whole question of the training of these social workers should be looked at in a co-ordinated manner, and does he not think that there is a particular danger of overlooking the needs of essential officers in hospitals, such as medical social workers and so forth?

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that it is desirable to keep in touch with the several bodies responsible for the training of social workers and the organisations representing them in order to ensure that there is an adequate supply of recruits and proper facilities for training in the course of the expansion, which is inevitable and desirable, of qualified and trained workers in the social field.

Order. The answer is far too long.

Can the right hon. Gentleman explain why the committee which was recently set up to consider what changes are needed in strengthening the family services covers local authority social workers but excludes probation social workers and medical and psychiatric social workers? Surely he is treating the matter piecemeal instead of considering the profession as a whole?

All this was gone into at the time we appointed the committee. It was announced, and I have nothing further to say.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what steps are being taken in the review of social security provisions to consider the advisability of public insurance against risks arising from motor accidents where liability is not covered by normal car insurance policies.

This particular form of insurance is outside the scope of our social security review, but the provisions for disablement and widowhood, however they arise, are included.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there have been several distressing cases in recent months of pedestrians being involved in and being held liable for accidents, which have caused much distress both to the persons affected and those causing the accidents?

Yes, I am aware of that, but there are more accidents than those caused by motor cars, cycles and pedestrians, and we have to cover all risks of disablement and widowhood. That is what we are doing in the review, but no accidents due to specific causes are included.

Does the Minister not appreciate that there is a very real point here? A considerable number of accidents are taking place and people are being badly injured without any cover of insurance at all, merely because the Government themselves are not insisting that everyone should be carrying insurance as well as Road Fund licences?

It is a matter of opinion whether a risk of this kind should be carried under a State scheme of social insurance. I have already said that in the major review we are giving consideration to all disablement and widowhood from whatever cause. That is social security. Insurance risks in many cases are quite a different thing.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, so far as motor insurance is concerned, it is a matter which is being considered now by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport along the lines which I have recommended to her?

On that matter, which the Minister seems reluctant to answer, for well over a year now the Minister of Transport and her predecessor have been allegedly negotiating better conditions with the Motor Insurers' Bureau to get proper compensation at least for the victims of hit-and-run drivers, and would he give urgent attention to encouraging his right hon. Friend to bring these negotiations to an early conclusion?

That is not a matter for me.

asked the Minister of Labour when the Report of the Inter-departmental Working Party on Equal Pay will be published.

It is not customary to publish the reports of official committees of this kind, and my right hon. Friend does not propose to publish this Report. The Working Party's task was to give the Government an up-to-date appraisal of the relevant facts and their implications, and this it has done.

Has my right hon. Friend nothing more to say? Is he not aware that this matter was included in the Labour Party's election manifesto? Has he no further prospect or encouragement to hold out?

This Report was prepared for the information of Ministers and was never intended for publication. We are now going to proceed forthwith to have discussions with representatives of the C.B.I, and the T.U.C. to find ways and means of implementing the principles.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will make a statement on the Report of the Working Party on Equal Pay for women.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given to the hon. Member for Clapham (Mrs. McKay) on 31st January.

Will my hon. Friend please say when the meeting between the Minister, the T.U.C. and the Confederation of British Industry will start, and when the discussions will be completed.

I hope that the discussions between my right hon. Friend, the T.U.C. and the C.B.I, will commence before very long. I cannot give a specific date; neither can I give a date when the discussions will be completed.

asked the Minister of Labour what advice is being given to employers who are refused Class A work vouchers under the Commonwealth Immigrants Act as a result of the ceiling quota imposed under the terms of the White Paper on Immigration from the Commonwealth and who are unable to fill their vacancies from within the United Kingdom.

Applications for Category A vouchers are not refused as a result of the limitation on the number that can be issued, but consideration of them is postponed and the employers concerned are advised accordingly.

With respect, there is little difference between saying that an application has been refused and saying that the application has gone on the waiting list and will take about a year to be reached. Is not my hon. Friend aware that this is happening in some cases? What kind of advice is being given to employers, as asked in my Question?

The advice that is given to employers is that there will be delay in dealing with their applications, and when the time comes for them to be considered the applications will be investigated.

asked the Minister of Labour how many applications by United Kingdom employers for Class A work vouchers under the Commonwealth Immigrants Act have been refused since the introduction of the ceiling quota in the White Paper on Immigration from the Commonwealth; and what were the unfilled vacancies involved.

Since the beginning of August last year about 1, 450 applications have been rejected after examination.

Does not this bear out the point that I was trying to make in my previous supplementary question? Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied with the situation in which 1,000 applications have been made by employers to employ people whom they require but who are not able to fill those vacancies from applicants within the United Kingdom? Will he arrange for the question of this quota ceiling to be examined further? It prevents employers obtaining adequate staffs.

The Government took the decision to limit the number of vouchers issued. I can give no undertaking that this decision will be reviewed in the near future. We must face the fact that in many sections of employment and in many parts of the country shortages of labour exist.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will arrange for the regular and properly indexed publication in a series of industrial reports of all important decisions given by industrial tribunals, including the reasons for such decisions.

Reports of selected decisions of the industrial tribunals, with the reasons for those decisions, will be published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office on behalf of the tribunals. The form of the publication is under consideration. All the tribunals' decisions, with the reasons, are entered in a register open to public inspection at the central offices of the tribunals in London and Glasgow.

I thank the hon. Member for that reply, but when consideration is given to the form of the reports will he bear in mind the difficulty that arose in the early days of the Insurance Commissioners due to the absence of a properly indexed and comprehensive series setting out the reasons? In view of the important decisions that these tribunals will have taken and are likely to take on other subjects in the future, can the Minister assure us that we shall have a speedily produced and properly indexed series of reports on all these matters?

I think that I can give the hon. and learned Member that assurance.

asked the Minister of Labour what action he is contemplating to make all pensions, including pensions for people in executive and supervisory posts, transferable as between firms.

A committee of my right hon. Friend's National Joint Advisory Council has now reported on the question of the preservation of pension rights on change of employment. The Council has agreed that the report should be published and will be discussing it at its next meeting in April.

I thank my hon. Friend for that Answer, but is he aware of the urgency of this matter and especially of the need to redeploy people of skill on both sides of industry in order to achieve the economic aims of the Government?

I can assure my hon. Friend that we are pushing forward with this as a matter of urgency.

Can we take it from the Minister's Answer that the Government will support the Bill on this subject which I hope to introduce on 22nd April?

I can give no commitment on that point.

asked the Minister of Labour to what extent there has been any change since June, 1965, in the number of persons registered as unemployed in skilled engineering and allied occupations in relation to the number of vacancies in such occupations.

In June, 1965, 9,177 men last employed in the engineering and allied group of occupations were registered as wholly unemployed and there were 37,532 notified unfilled vacancies. In December, 1965, the figures were, respectively, 9,800 and 34,404.

In view of the fact that the National Plan states that the reduction in the ratio between vacancies and men in this important skilled trade is a matter of the highest importance if we are to prevent difficulties stretching right the way through the economy, is the Minister satisfied that sufficient is being done to train men for these skills to meet the large excess in vacancies which still exists?

There has been a reduction of about one-seventh in the proportion, which is not sufficient. However, we are satisfied that we are doing all we can to speed up the expansion of Government training centres and to set up training boards. The Training Board for the Engineering Industry is fully apprised of the seriousness of this matter and it can be relied on to deal with it as a matter of urgency and seriousness.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what is the best estimate available to Her Majesty's Government of the Chinese People's Republic's nuclear weapons capacity.

The Government of the Chinese People's Republic detonated nuclear devices on 16th October, 1964 and 14th May, 1965. The Chinese capability is very limited, but weapons of nominal yield developed from their tests could be delivered by aircraft against lightly-defended targets.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the combination of China's increasing nuclear power and the aggressive statements of some of its leaders is an alarming source of anxiety in the Far East? Does not he also agree that it is one reason why Her Majesty's Government are not only looking for a non-proliferation agreement but are supporting our American allies in seeking to contain this power in the Far East?

Everyone would probably agree with the first part of the hon. Member's supplementary question. I also agree that it is important to seek a non-proliferation treaty. But our policy towards China must be seen in rather larger terms than the hon. Member has used. It is the view of Her Majesty's Government that one part of our policy towards China should be to endeavour, whatever the difficulties, to get her into the international community of the United Nations.

If that is the conclusion that my right hon. Friend has reached—and it is a very wise one—why not try to bring more pressure to bear, or at any rate why not use persuasion on the United States Government so that they can escape from their intransigence in this respect in order to obtain consent for and acceptance of the Chinese People's Republic into the United Nations?

I have taken many opportunities to make our point of view clear to the United States Government.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he is satisfied with present arrangements for political and military co ordination among the South-East Asia Treaty Organisation nations; and if he will make a statement.

I foresee no need to propose changes at present in the existing arrangements.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that in recent years S.E.A.T.O. has become something of a dead duck? Is it not just as important to revive this alliance and make it effective as it is to make statements about Britain's intention of remaining east of Suez?

I do not agree with the hon. Member's estimate. As he knows, the annual conference of S.E.A.T.O. occurs somewhat later this year, and if there are changes or improvements they can then be considered.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what steps he is taking to implement the proposals made by the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs at Strasbourg last month by initiating talks with a view to joining the European Economic Community.

My hon. Friend's speech was a restatement of the Government's policy. There can be no question of initiating talks until it is clear that the obstacles to British membership which have existed hitherto within the Community have disappeared.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that very important developments have taken place in Europe since his hon. Friend made his speech at Strasbourg? Will he reconsider the situation and seriously consider opening negotiations to join the European Economic Community?

No. I think that I should stick to the terms of the Answer I have just given the hon. Member. I am aware of the developments within the Common Market itself, but I do not think—as events now stand—that it would be sensible for me to say more than my hon. Friend and I have said.

In the light of what my right hon. Friend himself has already said, does not he think that it would be timely for him to make a more formal declaration of intent on behalf of Britain? [Interruption.]

No. I do not think that that would be a suitable step at this juncture.

In view of the apparently general acceptance of the idea in the House, arising from the last supplementary question, does not the right hon. Gentleman think that if he were to make a general statement of intent now it would do away with the misunderstanding which appears to have arisen, namely, that the British Government have a lukewarm attitude on this most important issue?

There is no misunderstanding about this. It has been made quite clear, in terms, that we are ready to enter the Community if certain essential British interests can be safeguarded. I am sure that no hon. Member would wish to suggest that we should proceed without regard for certain essential British interests, and the statements that we have so far made reflect the present situation and needs of this country.

Would my right hon. Friend care to remind himself and his colleagues in the Government that the five conditions laid down some years ago for our entry into the E.E.C. have not been modified by any decision reached since that time?

Indeed, I remind myself of this and my right hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell) reminds me as well. He will remember that I have referred to this matter more than once in the House, though I added—I think rightly—that events have made some of those conditions easier to fulfil than they were at the time that they were stated.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman being a little changeable, having, by earlier statements, suggested that Her Majesty's Government are now interpreting much more flexibly the five conditions mentioned by his right hon. Friend?

No, Sir. What I have said about the five conditions before is what I said just now, that the actual movement of events has made some of the conditions easier of fulfilment than they were.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I intend to raise the matter on the Adjournment.