asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many deaths in Great Britain from various forms of cancer there were in the years 1960 to 1965; what was the expenditure on cancer research for the years 1960 and 1965, respectively; and what steps he will take to increase Government support in relation to voluntary contributions.

Deaths from cancer in Great Britain from January, 1960, to September, 1965, totalled 652,234. In 1960–61 the Medical Research Council, the main Government agency for the promotion of medical research, devoted approximately £687,000 specifically to cancer research; in 1965–66 the amount is expected to be approximately £1,178,000. Further research supported by Government funds is conducted in the universities and at hospitals under the National Health Service, but it is not possible to give an estimate of this expenditure. The Answer to the last part of my hon. Friend's Question is: none. I am assured that the Medical Research Council has not been hampered by lack of funds in its support of proposals for research on cancer which have commended themselves on scientific grounds.

Is my hon. Friend aware, that although there is some indication of progress, the number of reported deaths arising from this serious disease is such that the concern and anxiety expressed throughout the country are understandable and point to the need for further Government support? Will he therefore keep this matter under strict observation?

Yes. Government support for the Medical Research Council as a whole has been rising and will rise again next year. The actual allocation of the money between different branches of research is a matter for the Council itself. The Council's spending on this avenue of research has also been rising.

Would not the Minister agree that to state the figures of direct Government support gives a very inadequate picture of the total national effort, both voluntarily and at universities, to deal with the hideous scourge of cancer?

Yes. I mentioned work at universities and hospitals. Work in other fields, such as in genetics and virology, may also have a bearing on these particular problems as well as on others.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what will be the extra cost of the changes in school meal dietary which he has accepted; and whether the extra cost is to fall on the parents or the State.

£350,000 at present prices to be borne by the Exchequer.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether that Answer means that the school meals subsidy is to remain an open-ended subsidy?

For the moment, yes.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he is satisfied by the progress being made in the establishment of the business schools at the Universities of London and Manchester; and if he will make a statement.

Both schools are now open for students and their budgets have been settled. I hear most encouraging reports of their plans, but it is not for me to comment on the academic aspects. This progress in making the necessary arrangements reflects credit on all concerned.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether staff recruitment and student recruitment have been satisfactory?

I believe staff recruitment has been satisfactory. If the hon. Member wants details, perhaps he will put down a Question to my hon. Friend or to myself after the election. As to student recruitment, this was started in a small way at both centres. There are post-experience courses at both universities, and a post-graduate short course at Manchester. There are considerable plans for the next academic year.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science, if, before paying any further subsidy from public funds to the Royal Shakespeare Company, he will require the company to stop producing non-Shakespeare plays in London.

No, Sir. It would be quite improper for me to seek to direct the work of the Roal Shakespeare Company.

Is the hon. Lady aware that the Arts Council tells me that the company is making money in Stratford and losing it in London? Is she further aware that this company is breaking its Royal Charter in producing non-Shakespearean plays outside Stratford and that it is being paid £90,000 out of public funds to enable it to do this? What is the hon. Lady going to do about it?

The hon. and learned Member must assume that I have looked into the company's Royal Charter, and I can assure him on the best legal advice that it is not breaking the conditions of its Charter.

Owing to the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter at the earliest possible moment.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if Circular 8/60, addendum 2, applies to women who wish to train as teachers.

The purpose of this addendum is to authorise the extension of nursery facilities where these will enable married women who are already qualified teachers but have young children, to return to the schools. I would not expect women normally to embark on a teacher training course while their families still include children under school age. But local authorities are free to allocate a nursery place to the child of a woman accepted for teacher training where this is the mother's wish and where there are nursery places available.

May I thank my hon. Friend for that reply and ask whether he is aware that I know of a number of married women with young children who want to take training courses? Will he make it clear to the local authorities that these women are able to take places in nursery schools?

Yes, Sir; the local authorities may allocate places in nursery schools to women in the position described. The only proviso is that women in this category would not count towards establishing the justification for new nursery schools, because the addendum refers to women returning to teaching.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how much was spent in research into agricultural buildings in 1964 and 1965, respectively.

It is not possible to isolate a figure for research on farm buildings alone.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that modern theory is changing a lot with regard to farm buildings? Will he see that this responsibility is not overlooked by his Department?

Yes, Sir. The Agricultural Research Council is willing to con- sider suggestions made to it, and a lot of the other work which it does has a bearing on this. So also does the experimental farm building scheme itself and, in a wider sense, the Building Research Station which is the responsibility of the Ministry of Technology.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what proportion of the capital sums allocated to Kent for the next three years will be available for improvement of existing schools; and how this proportion com pares with other education authorities.

The proportion of the Kent programme for 1966–67 devoted to improvement projects is 35·6 per cent. compared with the national figure of 37·5 per cent. As the hon. Member knows, the programme for 1967–68 is only partly allocated and comparisons would be meaningless. But three projects, worth £412,000, already in the Kent programme for 1967–68 are wholly or mainly devoted to improvement.

I am grateful for the point which the hon. Gentleman made at the end of his Answer. Will he not agree that those counties which have had a substantial influx of population from outside in recent years have to a considerable extent fallen behind other authorities where this has not been the case so much? Will the hon. Gentleman do his utmost to see that Kent gets opportunities for improving existing schools as well as building new ones, and also look at the allocation of further works?

I am sure the hon. Gentleman appreciates that the inclusion in programmes of projects for the replacement or improvement of existing schools depends on the relative merits of the projects submitted by all authorities. These will be taken into account when the next submissions are considered.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will review the conditions of employment of those who work in museums and galleries in his charge or for which he has responsibility in connection with Government policy for the arts.

Some conditions of employment of staff in museums and galleries are under review, but I would ask the hon. Member to wait for a fuller statement.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether, in view of the concern felt in Crawley over the circumstances that influenced the decision to form the Ifield Grammar School and the Sarah Robinson Secondary Modern School into a comprehensive unit, he will now hold an inquiry.

No, Sir.

Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that there is considerable disquiet in Crawley at the circumstances of this decision which an inquiry would help to dispel as well as help to restore confidence amongst teachers and parents?

I can only say that it has not been customary to hold a public inquiry into matters of this kind. Normally procedures which allow the views of objectors to be conveyed to the Secretary of State give interested parties a full opportunity to express their views. This was certainly done on this occasion and, in any event, having intimated his approval, there is no power under the Act by which my right hon. Friend could reopen the matter.

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that under the Statute there is power to hold an inquiry and, whilst I accept that it has not been customary to do so in the past, in view of the widespread nature of this kind of problem all over the country could not the Minister reconsider the practice?

I was careful to say that it was not customary. I did not say there was no statutory power. I must emphasise that after the very careful review that my right hon. Friend has undertaken, it would not be appropriate to hold a public inquiry in these circumstances.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether, in view of the recent announcement of licensed percentage grants for church schools, he will now give an assurance that the future of direct grant schools will be preserved.

In my right hon. Friend's statement to the House on 14th February he announced that the Government proposed to widen the scope and increase the rate of Exchequer grant to voluntary aided and special agreement schools. This has no bearing on the future of direct grant schools.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that some of these direct grant schools are church schools and are among the best in the country? Can he assure us that they will be preserved and that they will not be affected by the comprehensive blanket that the Government are imposing?

The Government's wish that voluntary schools should co-operate in the comprehensive policy applies equally to direct grant schools. I would refer the hon. Gentleman to paragraph 39 of the relevant Circular No. 10/65.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is the cost of raising the Exchequer grant to voluntary aided schools from 75 per cent. to 80 per cent.

It is estimated that the annual cost to the Exchequer of my right hon. Friend's proposals for giving additional financial help to voluntary schools will rise gradually to reach a level of about £1·5 million in the fourth financial year after the proposed legislation is passed.

Will there be any additional grants in special cases where the financial load is heavy as a result of the change to comprehensive education? If the hon. Gentleman does not know the answer, will he table a Question to my right hon. Friend after the election?

Some part of the purpose of these additional grants is to permit voluntary schools to play their part in the comprehensive reorganisation.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether, in view of the problems which arise when children are transferred from one education authority to another, he will seek to enforce standard intelligence tests.

The testing of pupils is a matter for the discretion of local education authorities and schools, but they are in general ready to accept each others' assessments of pupils' abilities and aptitudes. These assessments are not normally confined to the results of intelligence tests. Other factors are taken into account.

Does not the hon. Gentleman realise that they are not readily accepted and that the different bases on which these tests are made make it very difficult to accept them? Will the hon. Gentleman go further into this matter?

Perhaps it would be helpful, if the hon. Member has a particular case in mind, to send me details.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what steps he is taking to urge the European Space Research Organisation to set up an establishment such as an International Radio Astronomy Institute in Great Britain; and if he will make a statement.

None, Sir. E.S.R.O. does not at present contemplate the setting up of further establishments. Ground based radio astronomy is not within the purposes laid down for E.S.R.O. in its Convention.

As this country is the main contributor to the European Space Research Organisation and as most of the other main industrial countries in Europe have got E.S.R.O. institutes, have the Government taken no steps to try to get an institute of this nature for radio astronomy in this country?

The allocation of institutions was settled in 1962. At that time the Government made bids for an institution in this country but were unsuccessful in obtaining one.

Are not the Government worried by the paucity of international institutes in this country? Is it not a fact that there are about 100 international institutes in the neighbourhood of Paris and is it not time that we got a few?

Yes, I have great sympathy with that view, but I must point out that the matter was decided in 1962 and, if one is talking of Government responsibility for this failure, the responsibility lies with the Government who were in power at the time.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what action he is taking to stimulate the recruitment of qualified teachers who have migrated to this country from India, Pakistan, and the West Indies.

Qualified teachers from these and other countries who can serve effectively in our schools are already welcomed by local education authorities. But others whose academic qualifications entitle them to qualified teacher status may nevertheless be unsuited for employment in the schools because their command of spoken English is inadequate and they are unfamiliar with our teaching methods. To help them overcome these handicaps, my right hon. Friend has arranged for special full-time courses to be provided in certain areas this year, and he proposes to extend this scheme if it proves successful.

Is the Minister aware that many local authorities will hope that this scheme is extended, because a certain number of authorities have access to the scheme which appears to be working well but others have not? It would be well if it were extended.

I entirely agree with those considerations. Apart from one at Bradford which is going well, two more should be started this year, one in London and one in Birmingham and a further one in Nottingham is contemplated.

Is my hon. Friend aware that one has started in my constituency at the teachers' day training college?

I am grateful for that information which I knew but which had escaped me at the moment.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what study is being made of the proposal to establish a school for artistic administration.

This is an interesting idea which is well worth pursuing. I will consider it further with the Arts Council.

Is the hon. Lady aware that Mr. Ian Hunter, who is one of the most authoritative artistic directors in the country, recently said that very little had been done for the teaching of artistic administrators and that more would be needed if there is going to be a substantial expansion on the cultural side?

I am well aware of Mr. Hunter's contribution to the Press and also of his distinguished views on matters of this kind. We are giving this matter consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when he will introduce a Bill to repeal the education review sections of the London Government Act; and whether he is aware that the London Teachers' Association, together with other teachers' associations, is concerned about the delay since last November.

I sympathise with the views of the London Teachers' Association, but I cannot say when the legislation will be introduced. It will be done as soon as the legislative programme permits.

Is my hon. Friend aware that we hope after the election to bring in one or two recruits to help him?

Yes, Sir. I think that the statement made by my right hon. Friend in November should reassure London teachers and others concerned in this matter, and further reassurance will be given to them on 31st March.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he is aware of the growing concern of the teaching profession regarding the lack of plans and financial arrangements for the provision of buildings and teachers to meet the raising of the school-leaving age in 1970; and what machinery he proposes to set up to advise him on the question of teacher supply to replace the committee under the chairmanship of Sir Alan Bullock which has now ceased to function.

On the first part of the Question I would refer to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for Fife, West (Mr. William Hamilton) on 3rd February, 1966.

Is my hon. Friend aware that we expect some quick action on this in the next 12 months?

I note my hon. Friend's observations.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that we on this side of the House are dissatisfied with the answer to both parts of the Question? Is he aware that we believe that the provision for extra school building to meet the raising of the school-leaving age is inadequate? Secondly, and just as important, is he aware that it was never our intention that the National Advisory Council on the Training and Supply of Teachers should disappear with no other body to take its place? Will he look at this point again urgently?

My right hon. Friend takes the view that in this situation it would be premature to talk about machinery to replace the Advisory Council, but he shares the misgivings expressed about the effectiveness of the Council in its present form as an advisory body. Meanwhile, he will keep in touch with educational opinion on all matters relevant to this. On the subject of building I ask the right hon. Gentleman to await a Circular which my right hon. Friend will shortly be issuing in which guidance will be given to local authorities.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is the estimated current average cost of a primary and of a secondary new school place, respectively; and what would be the estimated cost of providing the extra school places needed for the raising of the school-leaving age to 16 years, respectively, by enlarging the secondary schools with the age of transfer at 11-plus, and by enlarging the primary schools so as to cope with an assumed age of transfer of 12-plus.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is his estimate of the cost of raising the school-leaving age on the assumption that local education authorities are allowed to base their comprehensive plans on an age of transfer other than 11-plus; and what is his policy towards local education authorities wishing to follow this course.

The current costs per place for new primary and secondary schools respectively are £230 and £435. It is not possible to estimate the costs of raising the leaving age by different building plans without also making assumptions about the implied changes in school organisation.

Will the Minister say to what extent he is allowing local education authorities flexibility in designing their building plans to take account of ages of transfer other than 11-plus where it is locally advantageous?

When proposals are submitted in accordance with the Answer which I have already given in which a local education authority indicates its desire, for some good and satisfactory reason, to depart from normal standards, my right hon. Friend will consider the proposal on its merits.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what action he is taking upon the Brynmor Jones Report on audio-visual aids in higher scientific education.

The main recommendations of the Report are being considered by the Department, in consultation with the University Grants Committee and the Scottish Education Department. Meanwhile, the universities and other institutions concerned are taking the Report into account in planning their own development.

While acknowledging the very valuable work that is being done by existing organisations in this field up to date, may I ask whether the time has not come to accept the main recommendation of the Brynmor Jones Report to establish a national centre which will have a complete library of programmes and also a standing exhibition of all the equipment that is available?

It is this proposal, along with the complementary proposals about service units, which are being discussed at the moment between my Department, the University Grants Committee and the Scottish Office.

Will the hon. Gentleman take particularly into account the availability of teaching machines which seem specially well adapted to teaching mathematics and science even at the higher level? Is that the type of machine on which he would look favourably?

We are in favour of the spread of visual aids of all kinds, but without notice I should not like to distinguish between the merits of one type and another. Teaching machines, along with other equipment, are spreading in their use throughout the schools system.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will introduce legislation to transfer to central Government the expenses of university grants and of technical colleges, so as to reduce the burden of rates.

No, Sir.

Would the hon. Gentleman agree that there is a certain amount of logic in transferring a proportion of the expenditure of university grants to the central Exchequer because university grants in particular are national, and technical colleges also serve a wide area? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in Richmond, a comparatively small borough, the cost of serving these two things is £800,000?

It depends what the hon. Gentleman has in mind. If he says that there should be no variation in grants when there is local option, the Government have no proposals to meet him. If he is speaking of the problem as one of the financial burden on local authorities, I refer him to the White Paper published on 25th February in which the Government are proposing a new system of grants to take some of the financial burden away from local authorities.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what action he takes where a local authority has decreed that all grammar schools in its area should be absorbed into comprehensive units and objections are made by a majority of the parents immediately involved.

Most proposals of this kind would require my right hon. Friend's specific approval under Section 13 of the Education Act, 1944. The local education authority would need to give public notice of the proposal and objections could be made to him within two months. He would carefully consider all the circumstances, including any objections, before giving his decision.

Does the hon. Gentleman think it right that the views of parents should be completely ignored by Socialist authorities which always seem to place uniformity above variety?

My right hon. Friend, in Circular 10/65, has already drawn attention to the importance which he attaches to the fullest possible information being given to parents.

Leaving aside the merits of individual schemes, will not the Minister agree that, even in the case of some proposals which do not technically involve Section 13, it is desirable to urge authorities to publish notices and give an opportunity for objections to be heard? Is he aware that in the last Parliament, whenever a proposal of this kind came up, if there was any question of public opinion really being roused on the matter, I always encouraged authorities to publish notices?

The effect of what the right hon. Gentleman has said is implicit in the terms of the Circular.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind, in thinking about the parents and children involved, that the parents of children attending secondary modern schools are equally involved with those of children attending grammar schools and that, very often, we tend to feel that grammar school opinion represents public opinion?

The policy to which Circular 10/65 refers is a policy applying to grammar schools as to other kinds of secondary school.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science, in view of the plans being made by the French Government to embark on an extensive programme of undersea research, what plans he has for seeking Anglo-French co-operation in this as in other highly technical spheres of common interest.

Details of the French Government's intentions for research in this field have not been made known to us, but there have been unofficial exchanges between scientific organisations in the two countries and my right hon. Friend is prepared to consider any proposals that may be made. British oceanographers and geologists at research establishments of the Natural Environment Research Council and at universities have co-operated with French scientists in research of this kind and will continue to do so on projects of mutual interest.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply, but is he aware that stations for intensive research in oceanography are at present being established in France and the French are making a big move in this direction? In order to avoid duplication and to assist this work, which is very important from our point of view, will he again get in touch with the French authorities to see whether we can co-operate in some way on this venture?

The Natural Environment Research Council is at present undertaking a review of the future orientation of oceanographic research in this country, and I am sure that it will bear that suggestion in mind.

Will not the Minister agree that, in terms of further knowledge of what is happening under the oceans, the biggest problem is not so much international co-operation as the need to get oceanographers and geophysicists—the two main branches of science involved—to get together and speak the same language? This is an infinitely bigger problem than international co-operation.

There are several contacts. There is the Inter-Governmental Oceanographic Commission on which Britain and France along with many other countries are represented. There is a good deal of contact on that body.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when a sixth form common room is to be provided at Woking County Grammar School for Boys.

This kind of provision is made as part of the minor works programme. It is, therefore, for the Surrey local education authority to decide whether and when it should be made.

Will the hon. Gentleman take it that that is a very disappointing reply, particularly in the light of the cuts which the Minister has imposed on these programmes, and the more so in view of the Government's unwillingness to redevelop this school on a new site which is available, a course which would be of great benefit to another secondary school and to a primary school, both of which are in need of premises?

On the question of cuts, the Surrey minor works programme for 1966–67 is £450,000, compared with a total allocation for 1965–66 of £400,000.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what steps he is taking to encourage children's theatre in Great Britain.

The committee of the Arts Council set up to study young people's theatre recently submitted an interim report to the Council. This is being considered in consultation with my Department, and I hope for early progress in this very important field.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science to what extent it is his policy that the direct grant schools, King Edward VII School for Boys and the High School for Girls, should be planned as part of a comprehensive system like all the other grammar schools and direct grant schools in Birmingham.

The Government's policy to reorganise secondary education on comprehensive lines applies to all grant aided schools. In Circular 10/65, issued last July my right hon. Friend, asked local education authorities to discuss with the governors of direct grant schools ways in which the schools could co-operate in local reorganisation schemes.

Is the Minister aware that the King Edward School Foundation in Birmingham does exactly the type of social engineering which seems to be the aim of that Circular, and there is no need to do this type of work again by bringing into a comprehensive system a perfectly sound school which has served the citizens of Birmingham and the surrounding areas well?

I understand that discussions have yet to take place between the Birmingham authority and the King Edward Foundation, and it would, therefore, not be proper for me to comment on the position of the two direct grant schools in which the hon. Gentleman is interested. I can only say that, after the outcome of discussions between those bodies, my right hon. Friend will consider any proposals on their merits in the particular circumstances.

Does the Minister realise that the position of the direct grant schools is causing more concern than any other aspect of the secondary reorganisation policy of the party opposite, not least in Birmingham, and will he take it that this is partly because of the particular quality of these schools, the fact that they cover a wide catchment area and they are institutions which have achieved so much both academically and in terms of social mixing?

I fully recognise the excellent achievements of most direct grant schools. My right hon. Friend is asking them to accept the challenge of a more varied entry so that the advantages they can offer are more widely shared. We shall look forward with interest to what we hope will be the fruitful discussions between the direct grant schools and the local education authorities.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will instruct education authorities which intend to offer no alternative to comprehensive education to give parents the opportunity of sending their children to the comprehensive school of their choice where more than one is available.

A parent's right to choose a school within the public system from among those available is not in any way impaired by the establishment of a comprehensive pattern of secondary education.

But is not the Minister aware that in most cases children are directed to a particular school in a particular area? Does he realise that the setting up of the comprehensive system is creating a socially divisive influence in the grammar schools because to the grammar schools children come from all classes and all areas whereas, if there is a comprehensive school in one area and a comprehensive school in another, children from the one area go to the one school, and this creates social barriers?

I would not accept the hon. Gentleman's assessment of the position, and I ask him to bear in mind that for the great majority of parents the present system of secondary organisation does not in practice allow very much choice to parents.

Mr. Hamling.

I beg to give notice—

Order. I have called the hon. Member for Woolwich, West.

Is my hon. Friend the Minister aware that in London, where we have had more experience of comprehensive schools than in any other L.E.A. in England, there has been no such direction as the hon. Gentleman opposite has mentioned?

Reverting to the Minister's last answer, is it not a fact that at least one authority, namely, Bristol, in putting forward comprehensive proposals, specifically advocated that comprehensive schools should be on neighbourhood lines, and is it not a fact also that any such proposal must exacerbate class differences between schools?

rose—

Giving notice of intention to raise a matter on the Adjournment precludes any further questions. I hope that hon. Members will hesitate before doing so too quickly.

My right hon. Friend is most anxious that comprehensive schools should not develop into purely neighbourhood schools, and on these grounds alone he would support the widest possible range of choice for parents.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I intend to raise the matter at the General Election.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether it is his intention, when asking local authorities to submit their building programmes for 1967–68 and 1968–69, to advise them that, besides putting into their programme plans for new schools for developing areas, a proportion of expenditure can be used for the replacement of old schools.

The basis on which authorities are to compile their proposals for these building programmes will be made known to them shortly.

Will the Minister confirm that, in his view, the replacement of Victorian primary schools should take precedence over buildings necessary for the imposition of the comprehensive system? Second, in those areas where there are new estates and old Victorian schools, will he see that there is a generous allocation for both types of building?

In Circular 10/65 my right hon. Friend makes abundantly clear that no extra provision can be made solely for the purposes of comprehensive education.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what work his Department, either through the Computer Centre or otherwise, will sponsor during the current year on scientific and technological information storage, abstraction, and retrieval; what discussions he has had with museums, libraries, and publishers; and how much money will be allocated to this work during the current year.

I would refer the hon. Member to my reply to the hon. Member for Birmingham, Perry Barr (Dr. Wyndham Davies) on 15th February. The Office for Scientific and Technical Information is undertaking a wide range of activities in this field and maintains close and regular contact, both at staff level and through the Advisory Committee for Scientific and Technical Information, with all major organisations that have a substantial interest in its work.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that reply. Is he aware that the first part of his Answer illustrates the need for an active experiment with the Library of the House of Commons so that we may have readily available and tabulated information about what hon. Gentlemen opposite say by way of statements, Answers and speeches at various times?

I will look into that suggestion.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many primary schools still remain in South Dorset without inside sanitary accommodation; and what would be the cost of installing it.

Twenty-two. I am unable to say what the total cost would be of providing indoor sanitation for these schools.

Since the amount of money involved is such a small sum compared with the tens of millions of £s being spent on grandiose propositions in various cities, and since it is not much to ask for a W.C., cannot the Minister speed up this reform and remove this long-standing rural grievance?

I recognise that the conditions in many old primary schools leave very much to be desired. However, as I have said on an earlier occasion, this is not a creation of 18 months but a legacy inherited from many years.

Is not the Minister aware that these defects could have been put right had he not abolished the mini-minor programmes which we pledge to restore, no doubt to the gratitude of local education authorities?

Within the allocations made to them, it was always open to local education authorities to apply their own order of priorities.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he has yet reached a decision on support for the National Youth Orchestra.

As I told the hon. Member for Londonderry (Mr. Chichester-Clark) on 24th February, we are now examining legal difficulties affecting the Department's powers to assist the National Youth Orchestra financially. But I again repeat the assurance that I gave earlier in this House that we are determined to save this orchestra.

While thanking the hon. Lady for believing that this is a genuine attempt, may I ask her to explain why it appears to be so much easier legally to get on with the children's theatre than with the National Youth Orchestra, since both seem to be in harmony?

I assure the hon. Lady that no one is keener than I am to cut through the red tape, but when we get hold of public money to spend there must be public accountability. There are certain legal difficulties in the Department, but, as I have said, I agree that the National Youth Orchestra should be saved. On the question of the children's theatre, a great deal of preliminary work is being done and, in the next Parliament, we will give the matter high priority.

Can the hon. Lady give some idea of the legal difficulties involved? Is she aware that we have been pressing for this for a very long time and that we want to see something done quickly and properly?

There are no powers available to the Department at present to give grants for private schools of this nature. This is a genuine legal difficulty which we are trying to get over. I assure the hon. Gentleman that there is no hesitation on the part of anyone in wishing to save this very special orchestra.

Would my hon. Friend invite the Leader of the Opposition to join the National Youth Orchestra?

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science who is refused admission to all or any part of the British Museum; and for what reasons.

The trustees have power under their statutes to withdraw the privilege of admission to the reading room or any department of the Museum at their absolute discretion. If the hon. Member has any particular case in mind, perhaps he would write to me.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will give the figures and percent ages for Hull for the years 1960 to 1965 of those children remaining at school over the age of 16 years, and those entering apprenticeships or occupations leading to professional qualifications; and what are the corresponding figures for the Yorkshire and Humberside Economic Region and for England and Wales.

As the Answer is in the form of two statistical tables, I will, with permission, publish it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

I thank my hon. Friend for that Answer and I look forward to seeing the statistics in the OFFICIAL REPORT. May I point out that there is a general feeling of satisfaction in Yorkshire about the state of affairs there, and will he ask his right hon. Friend to keep the matter under constant review?

I hope that my hon. Friend will take due care to study the statistical tables to which I have referred I have no doubt that, in the next Parliament, he will be able to put more

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he has received proposals for the reorganisation of secondary education on the Isle of Sheppey as part of the plans being drawn up by the North-East Kent, Faversham, Division of the Kent Education Committee; and when he hopes to be able to approve the proposal to introduce comprehensive education on the island.

Proposals have not yet been put to my right hon. Friend formally, but the local education authority has submitted its plan informally for discussion with the Department and a meeting will be arranged very shortly. I cannot, in the circumstances, say when and in what form he will be able to approve a reorganisation plan for the Isle of Sheppey.

Is my hon. Friend aware that these moves are warmly welcomed because this is a particularly suitable area? Can he confirm that where arrangements are being made for comprehensive education to be introduced into one area, when other areas are affected they will also be considered and a statement made at about the same time?

Most certainly consideration will be given to my hon. Friend's point.