asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government how many local authorities since November, 1965, have either adopted thoroughgoing rent rebate schemes or undertaken a review of their rent policies along these lines, in consultation with his Department, as the result of his White Paper entitled "The Housing Programme 1965 to 1970", Command Paper No. 2838, in return for the more generous subsidies herein mentioned.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government whether he will seek power to establish a review body for council house rent increases.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government what action he is taking to encourage local housing authorities to adopt fair rent rebate schemes.

Comprehensive information on council house rent policies is not available and I am taking steps to remedy this lack of basic housing data. Statistics compiled by the Institute of Municipal Treasurers and Accountants, which cover about two-thirds of local authorities, show that in 1964–65 42 per cent. operated rent rebate schemes. I do not think it would be appropriate to establish a review body for council house rent increases, but I propose to hold consultations with local authorities on the lines of paragraph 41 of the Housing White Paper of last November.

Can the Minister state why he maintains the fiction that local authorities are autonomous in a field where they can do nothing without the approval or financial help of the Government, but will not compel them to recognise the social justice that public money should not be spent on those well able to pay their own way?

I will tell the hon. Gentleman. In my view, the recognition of social justice is something done better voluntarily by an act of free will. Local authorities are entitled constitutionally under law to set council house rents and allocate tenancies. It is quite untrue to say that that is a fiction. It is a basic principle of local democracy.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is unfair to impose increases in council house rents of more than £1 a week? Will he agree that some kind of review machinery is necessary? Will he further agree that, unlike his remark of last week, where council house tenants are in a minority they have not got the ballot box necessarily as the answer?

I hold the view tenaciously that when we have a local democracy we must trust to the working of local democracy. As for council house rents going up, I agree that there are cases where councils act with imprudence. But, on the whole, they are bound by the rules of their housing revenue accounts, and it would not be true to say that they can do this illegitimately.

May I say to the right hon. Gentleman that we on this side would like to see this made positive Government policy, that we believe that the subsidising of the rents of council tenants is quite out of date now, and that he ought to take active steps to see that local authorities charge the full economic rent without any subsidy?

That is interesting news. The hon. Gentleman will have to convince, first of all, his own spokesman on housing on the Opposition Front Bench who shares my point of view on this point.

Would my right hon. Friend agree that a rent rebate scheme which inflicts the rebate on the rents of other council tenants is an unfair one?

I would not agree with that. I think that a rent rebate scheme which enables one to charge somewhere near the economic rent at the top of the scale in order to collect funds with which one can subsidise the rents of less well-off people is a perfectly reasonable system and one which I would suggest to councils that they should use.

I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will allow me to express my own views in my own way in due course. Will he accept that while I agree with him that we should give the maximum opportunity to local authorities to order their own affairs, when they are receiving increased subsidies out of the public purse they ought to have some regard to how that public money is paid? Will he consider taking some action to ensure that the deficiencies in in housing revenue accounts are controlled?

I think that what the right hon. and learned Gentleman said is true, that councils should consider these matters, and I have told the councils quite clearly that with these generous new subsidies I shall watch the situation and call them together. I believe that I can get it done voluntarily. If it is not done voluntarily, I agree that some other action must be taken.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government whether he will encourage local housing authorities with lengthy waiting lists to purchase properties which are for sale and which could easily be converted for council accommodation; and whether he will seek power to enable him to give financial help in acquiring such properties.

My right hon. Friend is very willing to consider loan sanction approval for the purchase of such properties in appropriate cases. Improvement grants are available to local authorities for any necessary modernisation.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that in some circumstances local councils should be helped by some kind of housing subsidy if these acquired properties are going to the general housing pool? Would not my hon. Friend further agree that there are some councils—Tory councils—which seem to have a political doctrinaire objection to acquiring property for the general housing pool?

A subsidy for properties of this kind would require legislation, and this is certainly not contemplated at this moment of time. As far as I am aware, all progressive councils which wish to acquire this sort of property can take advantage of the present legislation.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government what are his plans for legislation for the protection of residential caravan dwellers.

My right hon. Friend cannot promise any early legislation on this matter. We are continuing to consider what is the best way of dealing with this problem, but it is too early to make any definite proposals.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply, but would not he agree that it is a very serious matter that residents of caravan sites are being exploited, and that legislation is urgent and necessary?

In general, I agree with my hon. Friend. As he knows, we are awaiting the Report of the Consumer Council which has been examining this problem, and I think that the Report will be of great help to us.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, generally, there is a shortage of sites and that authorities are slow in giving planning permission for the extra sites which are required? Many people want to live in caravans.

There are difficulties about caravan sites. They tend to take up a lot of ground, and they sometimes create amenity problems in areas of scenic beauty.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government if he will make a statement on the progress being made by private housing associations in England and Wales in providing accommodation to rent.

During 1965 housing associations of all types completed 3,837 new houses and flats in England and Wales compared with 1,561 in 1962, 1,925 in 1963 and 2,852 in 1964. The figures are therefore rising steadily. Precise figures of the numbers that were built for renting in each year are not available but they were between 85 per cent. and 90 per cent. of the total.

In view of the encouraging progress being made, will the right hon. Gentleman start considering bringing to an end the whole policy of local authority housing, and divert his energies to private housing associations?

No, Sir.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government if he is aware that the first nine decisions of the rent assessment committees did not state what was the controlled rents of these dwellings or of identical dwellings, where available; if he will now state what they were; and if, in future, this will be done by the rent assessment committee whereever possible.

Comparisons with controlled rents cannot be drawn in all cases. For example, the 1956 rateable value may be above the limit for control set by the Rent Act, 1957, or the dwelling may have been improved and the current rateable value may not therefore bear a direct relationship with the 1956 rateable value.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that some of these decisions overruling the rent officers have fixed rents three times as high as the controlled rents, which indicates that the shortage factor or market value is not being disregarded in the way the Act requires?

As my hon. Friend knows, we had an interesting and useful discussion of this matter last Friday. I have nothing to add to what I said then.

Will the Minister look at a Question put down by his hon. Friend the Member for Salford, East (Mr. Frank Allaun) two years ago, when he complained that the biggest factor in high rents was the interest charge resulting from a high Bank Rate? Why was it an evil under the Tories, and why is it a virtue under the Socialists?

The hon. Member's, question is a very good indication of why it is desirable to leave these matters to rent officers and rent assessment committees.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government if he will state the determinations of the rent officers, up to the most recent date available, for the London boroughs, and for each provincial rent office.

With permission, I will circulate the figures in the OFFICIAI REPORT.

As so far only 8,200 cases—a tiny proportion of the number of extortionate rents—have been submitted to the rent officers, will my hon. Friend consider giving far wider publicity, preferably on television, to the opportunities afforded by the Act?

We are at the moment watching the load on the rent officers and the rent assessment committees with considerable care. We do not want to in-

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government what is his estimate of the percentage increase in the cost of a house which will result from the Selective, Employment Tax.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government by what percentage he expects the price of new houses to rise in Great Britain solely as a result of the new Budget proposals.

I would refer to my Answer to a Question by the hon. Member for Orpington (Mr. Lubbock) on 17th May.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say what social or economic purpose is served by imposing this tax in a way which deliberately adds to the already rapid increase in the cost of a house?

If the right hon. Gentleman looks at the reply which I gave the hon. Member for Orpington (Mr. Lubbock) he will see that the estimate is about 2 per cent. of the cost of the average house, which we think should be partly offset by lifting the import surcharge and the extension of the new investment grants to the construction industries.

Does not the hon. Gentleman remember that when the surcharge was added he said that it would be insignificant? Why, when it is taken off, does he say that it is of considerable effect? Does he realise that this increase is adding to the highest increase in building costs in living memory? What are the Government going to do about it?

The effect of this tax in terms of increased costs depends upon how much of the extra cost is passed on. Possibly the hon. Member, with his great influence in the building industry, will be able to persuade that industry, for a change, to take some of this cost to itself and not to try to pass it on.

Is it not a fact that the Answer to the hon. Member for Orpington (Mr. Lubbock) was made before mortgages were costing 7⅛ per cent.? Do not mortgages enter into the cost of a house? Why will he not give the House a factual reply?

The hon. Member has been away for some time and has probably forgotten that throughout the reign of the Conservative Party the cost of housing rose continually. We are as concerned about this as anybody else. We hope that these costs will be borne to a great extent by the building industry.

Does the Minister agree that last year the price of a house rose by the greatest amount since records were kept? Does he agree, further, that the Answer that he gave to the hon. Member for Orpington (Mr. Lubbock) means that the cost of a three-bedroom house will increase by £70 or £80, and that the increase in cost of a flat may be even greater?

The information that I have been given by the people in the Ministry who have investigated this matter is that the cost will rise perhaps by £60. As for the percentage increase, last year was not the highest; it was the same as the last year under the Tory Government—10 per cent.

Can my hon. Friend give a guarantee that in the event of there being a sharp rise in prices the whole matter will be referred to the Prices and Incomes Board?

My hon. Friend had better direct that question to my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government what he estimates will be the percentage rise in the cost of a house in October 1966 over the cost two years before, assuming that labour and commodities remain at today's prices and the Selective Employment Tax is imposed.

The average cost to local authorities of a 5-person 3-bedroom house rose by about 15 per cent. between the last quarter of 1964 and the first quarter of this year. As to the effect of the Selective Employment Tax, I would refer to my Answer to a Question by the hon. Member for Orpington (Mr. Lubbock) on 17th May, and my answers on the Floor of the House today.

Is it not true that most of this colossal rise has been caused by extra taxation and other Government action? When will the Government carry out their pledge in the election to cheapen the cost of housing?

That may be the hon. Gentleman's political view, but there are other opinions. An investigation into some of the increased house prices has shown that they may be due to high profits still being made on houses.

Does that apply to local authority houses?

Local authorities still have an enormous problem of having to pay expensive prices for land. That is why we are concerned now with introducing the Land Commission.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government if he will introduce legislation to formulate a scheme with the building societies so that they can run down their liquidity and whereby in an emergency funds may be made available to them through the Bank of England, subject to full security.

I have not such plans at present, but my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer and I are always prepared to consider any proposals the building societies may make to us for improving their service to the public. Meanwhile, we await the report of the National Board for Prices and Incomes.

Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that about £900 million of building society money is put aside for liquidity purposes to meet a sudden withdrawal? Will he study the scheme prepared by the Abbey National Building Society, which would make further moneys available to house purchasers?

I can only repeat that we will consider all these schemes. Now we had better wait until the National Board for Prices and Incomes has studied the matter impartially.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government how many houses for owner-occupation were completed in the last six months; how many were started; and how these figures compare with those for the corresponding period in the previous year.

In the six months November 1965 to April 1966 private builders in Great Britain completed 99,300 houses and started 92,800, compared with 110,200 and 119,400, respectively, in the previous year. Most of these will have been for owner-occupation.

In the light of those figures, will the right hon. Gentleman say what action he now proposes to take to redeem his election pledges to help owner-occupiers and, in particular, his promise that legislation on mortgage rates and interest is coming forward?

Yes, the right hon. Gentleman knows that we are now discussing the details of the administration of our option mortgage scheme. I have every reason to think that it will not take very long. Then we shall incorporate it in our Housing (Subsidies) Bill and bring it forward.

While welcoming what the Government have done in making retrospective the 4 per cent. interest rates to local authorities, could the Minister consider bringing forward that section of the Housing (Subsidies) Bill to a date earlier than this autumn so as to give the 2½ per cent. reduction to many owner-occupiers, as many of us think that this will be the best fillip of all to the housing programme?

I appreciate my hon. Friend's motive in this, and I agree that it is extremely important that we should reach agreement with the building societies and be able to announce the precise details of the plan. This will he done. This is more important than the exact date of the legislation. What is important is the announcement of the agreement and the details, and that will not be long postponed.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government by what percentage the price of new houses rose in Great Britain in 1965.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government by what percentage the price of new houses rose in Great Britain in 1965.

About 10 per cent. for a private house and 12 per cent. for a local authority two storey 3 bedroomed house.

Is it not deplorable that the policies of the right hon. Gentleman have not only succeeded in reducing the number of houses built for owner-occupation but also caused a dramatic increase in their prices? Would he not agree that the increase in price of local authority houses is directly responsible for the great increase in rents in many cases?

In the local authority sector, one of the reasons for the increase in prices is the fact that we are insisting on improved standards—we have minimum Parker Morris standards—and that, in the building market generally, there has been a substantial increase in the cost of labour and materials. Average weekly earnings rose by 9 per cent. and materials by 4 per cent. Although we, too, deprecate the rise in prices, this is not something which has come about suddenly under the Labour Government. It happened consistently under the Conservatives.

Whatever may have hapened under a Conservative Government, does the hon. Gentleman remember that the Prime Minister gave election pledges in 1964 to cheapen the cost of housing? When will the cost of housing be cheapened?

The right hon. and learned Gentleman has, of course, made all his General Election speeches and they evidently got him personally back to the House, although not his party. The right hon. and learned Gentleman knows that there are adequate reasons why prices have risen in the last year, but we shall be judged on our record in a full period of office.

In the light of his Answer to Question No. 14, can the hon. Gentleman now say whether it is the policy of the Government to take steps to increase or to diminish house prices?

We shall take whatever action we possibly can to encourage those who wish to buy their own homes at prices cheaper than for many years past. The right hon. Gentleman must be careful. He is asking us to promote legislation to control house prices, and there may be something in that.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government (1) what proposals he has to increase the output of system-built dwellings for local authorities;

To operate with maximum efficiency, system-building requires long, continuous production runs, and concentration on a limited range of plan types. The industrialised building drive which my right hon. Friend launched last December seeks to create these conditions, to stimulate local authorities to use new materials and methods of construction, and to streamline their own operations. Details of the drive are given in Circular No. 76/65, and I am sending a copy to my hon. Friend.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that reply and I shall look forward to reading the circular with interest. Nevertheless there is concern—[HON. MEMBERS: "Question."] Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is concern—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] They will have their fun, won't they? Is my hon. Friend aware that there is concern about housing output? Does he not think that it would be a good idea to set up a public housing authority on the lines of the new town development corporations to build houses, so that we can be independent of private speculators who are inefficient and those local authorities who do not get their housing output on the move?

The present figures of output of system-built dwellings, particularly by local authorities, are something of which the whole House ought to be proud. In 1964, 10·8 per cent. of the total public sector dwellings were system-built, last year it was 22,000, which is 16·9 per cent., and this year, in the first quarter, it has now gone up to 22 per cent. I think that by the end of the year about 30 per cent. of all local authority houses will have been built by system methods.

Would the hon. Gentleman agree that it is difficult to make full use of system-building while we continue to have more than 1,400 housing authorities which build an average of 70 houses a year? Would he consider amalgamating certain of these authorities along the lines adopted by his right hon. Friend the Home Secretary for the police force?

The hon. Gentleman had better await the statement of the Prime Minister on the Royal Commission. I agree that there is a great problem for us in the Ministry to get co-ordinated building among so many local authorities, but consortia of a large number of these authorities are in operation now and are having a great success.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government what criteria he is using to assess the success of his measures to give security to tenants of agricultural tied cottages.

The best criterion by which to judge the success of the special provisions in the Rent Act, 1965, will be whether both sides of the farming industry consider that they operate fairly in practice. I have no doubt that the National Union of Agricultural Workers will let me know if there are any cases where it considers that an agricultural worker has not received adequate protection.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that while agricultural workers appreciate the improvement that has been effected, there is still considerable apprehension? Is it not time that my right hon. Friend made official statistics available so that the success or otherwise of his policies on this matter could be properly judged?

We do not have special statistics about tied cottages. I have asked the National Union of Agricultural Workers to tell me if there are any complaints. It has made no complaint whatever so far, apart from referring to a transitional problem which will not be repeated.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government if he will issue an explanatory booklet for the use of local councillors setting out the powers available to local authorities in respect of overcrowding, insanitary conditions and dilapidation of dwellings.

Any simple explanation of the wide and complicated range of powers available would be liable to he misleading. Councillors would do better to rely on the advice of their officers in these matters.

Is my hon. Friend not aware that that is a most unsatisfactory reply? Is he aware that it is because the laws are complicated that it is absolutely imperative that local councillors are given some assistance by the Ministry so that they may understand the law in this respect a little better than is now the case and so that they may approach their local officials to get things done?

We believe that a booklet could do more harm than good. It needs experts to say which statutory provisions would fit each particular case. There are dozens of Acts of Parliament which cover a whole range of activities here and on the strength of a booklet of this kind there is the danger that councillors might set themselves up as independent advisers to constituents, which might create more confusion than there is at present. It might well be the job of a councillor to know which officers of the council should be approached for advice in individual cases.

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government whether he will review the position of areas that become blighted by planning proposals so that the owners may if they so wish have their property acquired in advance of the actual development.

The statutory arrangements are adequate. Outside these my right hon. Friend cannot at present encourage local authorities to buy land in advance of need, except when hardship is fully demonstrated.

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that, although there are safeguards of some sort, they apply only to owner-occupiers, and that there are many cases of hardship to other owners who wish to dispose of their property? Does not the hon. Gentleman feel that it is an injustice for their assets to be frozen in this manner, sometimes for a long period?