asked the Minister of Overseas Development which countries which had expropriated the properly of British subjects without proper compensation are receiving grants and loans from his Department.

If the right hon. Gentleman refers to the property of U.K. citizens, and if technical assistance be counted as grants, the list is Argentina, Brazil, Burma, Ceylon, Indonesia, Mexico, E1 Salvador, Syria, Tunisia and the United Arab Republic. In most cases, negotiations or discussions concerning the claims to compensation are in train.

Is that not a formidable list of countries helped by the British taxpayers which have looted the property of British citizens? Would not the negotiations be expedited if it were made clear to them that there would be no assistance until they had come to a settlement of their just debts with Britain?

I think that reluctance to negotiate on claims would affect our attitude to aid, but I doubt whether an exchange of views across the Floor of the House would help the negotiations. The right hon. Gentleman should remember that Argentine, Brazil and the U.A.R. were promised help by his Government when he was a Treasury Minister.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Reply, I beg to give notice that, if I am fortunate, I will raise this matter on the Adjournment as early as possible.

Good.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what is the total amount of aid he proposes to give during the current year; how much will go to each country; what is the estimated income per capita, respectively, of each country; on what basis is the aid granted; how much is in repayable loans and gifts, respectively; and what are his estimates for the coming year.

Because of the length of the Answer, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

I am grateful for those figures. Will the right hon. Gentleman warn recipient countries that he may not be able much longer to give this aid, since we are lending money which we have not got and which we have not earned but which we have borrowed and which we are not likely to be able to repay?

I repudiate the hon. Gentleman's lack of confidence in our ability to face this country's economic future, and I hope that when he asks questions of that kind he will bear in mind that we are helping countries where the income per head ranges upwards from £12 per year and that 90 per cent. of our aid goes to countries with per capita incomes of less than £100 a year.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what proposals he has to increase the proportion of overseas aid which is tied to British exports.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development why his aid is not linked to total purchases from Great Britain; and why he continues to give aid to countries which threaten to leave the Commonwealth and work against this country's interests; and if he will make a statement.

My hon. Friend explained the position in his reply of 26th May to the hon. Member for South Angus (Mr. Bruce-Gardyne) and emphasised that it is our policy to ensure that as much aid as possible is used to supply British goods. I have no plans for a change in the system. I do not accept the implication of the second part of the Question from the hon. Gentleman the Member for Louth (Sir C. Osborne).

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that at a time of financial stringency tied aid makes far fewer demands on our foreign currency position than any other sort of aid?

Yes, I fully appreciate that, and it is why we do everything possible to tie aid where it is practicable to do so. But I know that the hon. Gentleman realises that we have special obligations to dependent territories and also to independent territories with whom we have entered into agreements in the past to give budgetary support.

The hon. Gentleman says that a certain amount of this aid is spent in this country. Does he not know roughly what proportion is spent in this country, and can he also say generally where the rest is spent?

Generally speaking, the balance is spent on local costs. I had imagined that the hon. Gentleman would have gone into the subject himself and looked up previous answers on the subject, from which he would have seen that £54 million of bilateral financial aid last year was wholly tied and 16 per cent., or £21 million, was partly tied.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what was the total spent in overseas aid since 1945, setting out the details of all main items such as gifts, loans, with details of those free of interest and which have been repaid, defence, technical assistance, Commonwealth Development Corporation, including India, Pakistan, Burma, and all foreign countries.

The collection and presentation of information in the detail for which the hon. Member asks will be both costly and time-consuming. I am therefore arranging in the interim to circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT a statement covering the broad headings as far as practicable now, and I will write to the hon. Member in greater detail when it is possible to do so.

Would the right hon. Gentleman consider making this information available in the form of a White Paper, or some other convenient form, as it would be of very wide interest?

Yes. In the recent debate on the Overseas Aid Bill we agreed that we should issue some publication giving information on this kind. No doubt the hon. Gentleman is aware of the existence of a publication which appeared in June and which gave the statistics of official economic aid by this country to developing countries.

Would the right hon. Gentleman consider including in the White Paper the future cash flow position and the future commitments he has made so that we can know each year where we stand in terms of local and foreign currency?

In many cases that would be a departure from precedent, but I will certainly consider the point.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether British subscriptions to United Nations development funds will be reduced as a result of the recent cuts in overseas spending.

The contributions which the United Kingdom has pledged to the United Nations Development Programme for this year have already been paid. I am not in a position to make any statement about our contribution in future years.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that, at a time of financial stringency, it probably does less damage to our reputation to see a reduction in our contributions to multilateral funds rather than a cut in projects for which we alone are responsible?

I appreciate what the hon. Gentleman has said. I assure him that I attribute a great deal of importance to the United Nations Development Programme and also other multilateral aid measures. He will appreciate that we are the third largest donor to the United Nations Development Fund.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development how many overseas students have been placed in practical training by his Department since May, 1965; and how many applications were received from persons who could not be placed.

1,888 have been placed: no precise details of unsuccessful applications are available, but the number is very small.

Does that very small number include private students, as opposed to sponsored students, who wish to receive training? The hon. Gentleman will, of course, realise that these private students are also valuable subsequently in promoting commercial relations between Britain and overseas territories.

No, I am afraid that the figure does not include the private students. The Ministry operates under our technical assistance arrangements only for trainees put forward by overseas Governments. We are not responsible for private schemes.

Have any been placed in technical colleges in this country and, if so, how many?

I have not that information, but if the hon. Gentleman puts down a Question I will gladly answer it.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development if he will make a statement on the new four-year land resettlement scheme negotiated with the Kenya Government, stating how valuations will be ascertained; and whether, in event of a dispute, reference can be made to an impartial tribunal.

Her Majesty's Government have now agreed with the Kenya Government the arrangements for the purchase of European mixed farming land within the overall figure of 400,000 acres previously announced. The basis of valuation for purchases by the Kenya authorities will be current market values as assessed by professional valuers of the Kenya Lands Department. Since purchases will continue to be on a willing buyer/willing seller basis without compulsion, an independent tribunal is not necessary.

While welcoming that statement, is the hon. Gentleman aware that Kenya farmers particularly requested an independent tribunal in view of the unfortunate experiences which they have had over valuation? Is this scheme likely to include all those British subjects who wish to sell their farms, and how much will it cost Her Majesty's Government?

I am aware, of course, that the farmers had in mind the first point which the hon. Gentleman mentioned, but the working party considered it carefully and that is the basis of the agreement between our two Governments. I think I can give the assurance that it is designed to cover all those who wish to sell, but I cannot give the figure.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what further aid the Government propose for the Caribbeans.

I have no new proposals going beyond those covered by the colonial development and welfare allocations made last year, which were announced by my right hon. Friend's predecessor in her reply to a Question by my hon. Friend the Member for Wandsworth, Clapham (Mrs. McKay) on 21st December, 1965, and in the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for Barons Court (Mr. Richard) on 9th March this year.

Has the Ministry studied the Report of the Tripartite Economic Survey of the Eastern Caribbeans? In view of the generosity of the Canadian Government over and above the British Development Division in Barbados, what are the Government to do in the light of the report about the Caribbeans?

We shall try to follow the recommendations of the survey which we have studied, but in present circumstances I cannot hold out any hope of additional British aid being made available for these purposes.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what is the extent of Great Britain's economic aid to South Vietnam; and what form it takes.

Our economic aid to South Vietnam in 1965–66 totalled £81,000. We supplied road making equipment, diesel engines and portable anaesthetic machines. We also financed some training, which is the subject of the hon. and learned Member's later question, and three visits and a longer term assignment by medical and educational experts.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the map published by his Ministry called "Aid Overseas" South Vietnam is not shown as a country in receipt of any aid from this country? Why was South Vietnam so omitted? Can he tell the House the form of the training which is part of this aid?

I am not aware of the map, but I will certainly look into that matter. Without notice, I would not be able to give more information about the type of training received.

As the Government are very free with the advice given to the South Vietnamese Government, would it not be a little better for the honour of this country if we were more generous with our concrete help?

Will my right hon. Friend do his best to avoid confining aid, when giving help to the people of Vietnam, to those living South of the partition border, and will he seek to give aid, as far as it is possible to do so, to all the people of Vietnam, starting, for example, by sending a medical aid team north of the border as we have sent one to the South?

South Vietnam is covered by the Colombo Plan.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether he will now consider the withdrawal of financial assistance to the Rhodesian University, in view of recent developments there.

I am very conscious of the considerations my hon. Friend has in mind, and I am in touch with those in British universities who are equally concerned. Before I come to any conclusion, I shall want to know the view of the College itself on the question whether conditions still exist in which the College can carry out its multiracial function under its Royal Charter.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the illegal régime is now rooting out and has rooted out the most liberal elements of the university which is no longer anything but a racial institution? Will he give an assurance that he will withdraw this aid immediately he is satisfied on that point and transfer it, preferably to Zambia?

Recent events have been most disturbing. I have had talks with three of the lecturers who have been deported from Rhodesia, and I shall be having further talks with other interested parties in the next few days, including Professor Ingold, who has just been investigating the situation on behalf of London University. I shall want to satisfy myself on a number of points in the discussions which I propose to have.

Would not what the hon. Member for Fife, West (Mr. William Hamilton) suggests be a very short-sighted policy? Will not the right hon. Gentleman consider that it is much wiser to give aid to a multiracial university in Rhodesia than to the United Arab Republic, having regard to what it is doing in South Arabia?

The two points on which I want to satisfy myself are, first, what is in the best interests of the students and, secondly, whether in the present climate of opinion in Rhodesia it is practicable for the College to carry on effectively as a multiracial institution. I want to get information on those matters before I am in a position to reach a conclusion.

asked the Minister of Technology if he will give details of the research currently being undertaken by the Atomic Energy Authority into the controlled nuclear fusion reaction; and whether such research has involved, or is intended to involve, co-operation with the European members of Euratom.

This research is carried out by the Authority's Culham Laboratory; the programme is shown in chapter VII of the Authority's Eleventh Annual Report.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply, but would he not agree that this is a field of scientific research in which some of the most remarkable developments can confidently be expected in the foreseeable future? In view of the advantages of international co-operation in such a field, would it not be well to ensure that whatever Government initiative is taken to negotiate membership of the European Economic Community, we should now seek the earliest membership of Euratom?

As my hon. Friend points out, this is certainly an important field, although when results might be expected from the research activity is at present difficult to judge. On co-operation with Euratom, there is an overall U.K.-Euratom agreement, and although there is not a specific Culham-Euratom agreement, it may be that the arrangements are proving satisfactory.

Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that Culham might be suitable for the creation of a centre of international excellence along the general lines proposed by Lord Fleary?

I think that, in a broad sense, it is already an international centre of excellence, and it has attracted to it a number of research workers from other laboratories within the Euratom countries.

When thinking of international corporations of the future, will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind the very great success that has been achieved by the Dragon process under O.E.C.D. auspices? Would he consider at Culham changing over from Euratom, which is undergoing some difficulties these days, to O.E.C.D. auspices?

That raises wider questions, but there are certain aspects of the work going on at Culham which may in future be co-ordinated with O.E.C.D. as well as with the Euratom agencies.

asked the Minister of Technology to whom the reports and information from the Production Engineering Research Association are made available; and what restrictions are placed on their dissemination.

The Association's Annual Report is sent to the Press and other non-member bodies. Other reports are confidential to members of the Association but are also available to Government Departments, and general release is made after three years. Reports on sponsored projects normally remain confidential to the sponsor.

Does my hon. Friend realise that one of the great defects of this and similar institutions is that, in a period of our development when we are desperately in need of scientific research, we are deliberately starving the small firms and individuals who can make best use of assistance, instead of making sure that the taxpayers' money going into these institutions provides results that are made available to those providing the money in the national interest?

I understand and sympathise with my hon. Friend's point of view, but I would point out that the reports that are normally produced by the P.E.R.A. are made available to members. There are well over 1,000 members, and I do not think this provision is particularly restrictive. Where the restriction comes in is in relation to those projects that are paid for on a sponsor basis by individual members, and it is rather difficult to insist that such reports should be made available to everyone. We should have to look at this position very closely, indeed.

Is it not possible that membership by these firms would give them the information they want?

That is a fair point, because, as far as I can see, membership is open virtually to all firms in the engineering industry. As I say, a very large number of firms—1,100 or so—are members, and there is also a category of associate member which brings in many technical colleges and departments of engineering at universities.

asked the Minister of Technology what steps he is taking to ensure that small firms are assisted and encouraged in introducing up-to-date managerial and administrative techniques.

I have nothing to add yet to the Answer my right hon. Friend gave to the hon. Member on 27th June, 1966.

Will my hon. Friend look again at the usefulness of building up a consultancy agency to provide information in management techniques for the smaller firms which cannot afford to engage the very expensive firms operating in this field? Would he not agree that a considerable benefit would stem from this to the national interest?

We are giving consideration to that point and will be reporting to the House later. We are already doing something in this field through regional offices and industrial liaison centres.

Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that he will have full support from this side in his activities in this direction, and will he recall that this was in the Conservative election manifesto at the last election?

asked the Minister of Technology what action he intends to take to reduce the average age of machine tools used throughout British industry.

The recent census of machine tools published by Metalworking Production has been considered by the Machine Tool E.D.C., on which my Department is represented. It is up to the firms themselves to decide their replacement policy, but the new system of investment grants is designed to encourage the modernisation of plant and machinery by manufacturing industry.

Is my hon. Friend aware of the unsatisfactory situation that has been demonstrated in many industries as a result of the recent survey? In particular, would he give thought to the possibility of improving the situation in industries such as shipbuilding, where some three-quarters of the machine tools are more than 10 years out of date?

Yes, I will certainly undertake to do that.

Will the hon. Gentleman use his persuasion on his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to reintroduce investment allowances, as these were very much more effective in modernising industry in regard to machine tools?

That is a very different point. I happen to agree with my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer that the investment grant is superior to the investment allowance system which it is shortly to replace.

asked the Minister of Technology what arrangements have now been made between the Atomic Energy Authority and British industry to promote the export of capital equipment and ancillary products; what will be the annual cost attributable to his Department; and whether there will be any commission or income to offset this cost, based on "know-how" given, or plant and equipment exported.

The U.K. Atomic Energy Authority and the three nuclear consortia have set up a joint organisation known as the British Nuclear Export Executive to co-ordinate sales presentation and promotion of British reactor systems in overseas markets. The Authority's contribution to the first year's cost of B.N.X., is provisionally estimated at £24,000. The Authority will stand to gain from the stimulation of overseas orders by reason of increased fuel business and by royalty income from the use of the Authority's "know-how" and patents.

Can the hon. Gentleman state whether this is Britain's answer to the high-pressure salesmanship of Westinghouse, General Electric and other firms in the export field? Is he satisfied that this organisation will be effective and competitive? What is the basis of Government finance, and who pays if the agency makes a loss?

I cannot yet say that I am fully satisfied with this new organisation, because it has only just been created. We shall certainly be watching its progress. Basically, its job is to exercise a co-ordinating function in respect of overseas inquiries and orders. The main work of preparing tenders will devolve upon the individual consortia and upon the A.E.A. itself, and their expenditure under these headings will be considerably larger than the relatively small expenditure for the B.N.X. organisation as a whole.

asked the Minister of Technology if he will tabulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT the value by industrial category of the main items of exports in the atomic energy industry for each of the six-month periods ended 30th June, 1966, 31st December, 1965, and 30th June, 1965, respectively; what has been the total value of goods and products exported in each of these periods, respectively; what firm contracts and orders are on hand at the present time; and if he will estimate the value of exports expected in each of the next two six-monthly periods.

The appropriate extracts from the trade statistics will be tabulated in the OFFICIAL REPORT. Comprehensive forecasts of exports are not possible on present information, but discussions are going on with a number of prospective buyers of reactor systems.

What effect will B.N.X. have on this position? Is it too early to predict whether it will have a marked effect?

I think that it is really too early to predict this. The B.N.X. organisation will be mainly concerned with large orders for reactor systems, whereas the information which the hon. Member seeks and which is to be published in the OFFICIAL REPORT is mainly concerned with smaller components, isotopes, and other products of the atomic industry.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary bear in mind that the Americans are doing their best to knock the A.G.R., saying that the boiling-water reactor is better? Will he see that we send out the toughest salesmen we have

asked the Minister of Technology what consideration he is giving to the use of small modulator computers, costing less than £15,000, in the public sector and in Government Departments.

The Ministry of Technology has been examining the whole question of the future need for and use of small computers. The National Research Development Corporation has also been considering proposals in this field.

Would not the Parliamentary Secretary agree that these new small-type computers introduce an entirely new factor into the economics of automation, and will he assure us that he will ensure that every Government Department now reassesses its opportunities for the increased

I cannot myself now give the assurance that the hon. Gentleman seeks, but quite clearly the purpose of setting up B.N.X. is to give new thrust and drive to our export effort in this field.

There is certainly a very clear use for small computers. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that there are still differences of view among the experts as to the proper use of small computers for specific tasks and large computers for more general tasks. We shall certainly ensure, as far as we can, that small computers are used as far as is appropriate.

asked the Minister of Technology what steps he has taken to review the future staff needs of all research establishments coming under his responsibility, and especially the Atomic Energy Authority, with a view to encouraging trained scientists and engineers to move into science-based industries or into teaching where they are urgently needed.

Both my Department and the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority regularly review the staff needs of the research establishments. I am well aware of the considerations referred to by the hon. Member.

While recognising the efforts which have been made by the A.E.A. to reduce its staff, may it not be the case that there are still too many mature engineers and scientists in their 30s and early 40s working in the A.E.A. when there is a shortage of such men in industry? Would not many of them have better career prospects in moving out into general industry?

This is one of the considerations in my mind when discussing this problem with the A.E.A.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether progress has been made in regard to transferability of pensions to those who wish to go into industry?

The A.E.A. have an interchange arrangement regarding the public sector and a discretion in certain circumstances with private firms to preserve pension rights. This is a problem affecting private firms, the universities and public services. It is a matter of great importance, and I have it very much in mind.

asked the Minister of Technology what plans he has for implementing the recommendation of the Feilden Committee that Institutes for Advanced Studies of Design in particular industrial fields be established.

The first institute, devoted in this case to advanced machine tool and control technology, will soon be established on the National Engineering Laboratory site at East Kilbride. Other institutes will follow.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that his reply will give great pleasure to the people of Scotland? What consultations has he had with the Scottish Economic Planning Council and with the University of Strathclyde? When does he think that this institute can start work?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for saying what he did say, because this is an important development. Talks have gone on with industry and the Scottish Economic Planning Council. Although the establishment will be a Ministry of Technology establishment, the steering committee will represent industries, trade unions and the university. It will be based on Strathclyde and, until buildings are available for it, the National Engineering Laboratory will house it. I cannot say definitely when it will start work, but the director will be appointed soon and will be a full member of the university.

asked the Minister of Technology what directions he has given to the British Standards Institution to revise standards which are now considered out of date.

Steps have been taken to ensure that the British Standards Institution is in a better position to speed the updating of standards.

Will the Minister bear in mind the great importance of the British Standards Institution and give the House an assurance that his Ministry will take urgent steps to see that the British Standards Institution is strengthened?

We are very well aware of the importance of the British Standards Institution and have taken a number of steps to assist it. For instance, there has been an increase in Government grant contributions from 75 per cent. to 100 per cent.

Will my hon. Friend ask British Standards Institution to improve standards from the point of view of stringency both in quality and safety? I am thinking particularly of electrical apparatus, because its standards compare poorly with continental countries, particularly Holland and Sweden.

I shall certainly bring the remarks of my hon. Friend to the notice of the Institution.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the two biggest obstacles to achieving what the House wants are shortages of engineers in the B.S.I. and the extremely complicated machinery by which the committees write new standards? Will he assure us that he will take action on both these points?

I accept the hon. Member's first point. We are doing a great deal to assist in this matter by the use of people from research stations. On the second point, we have had a management consultants report on B.S.I. as a result of which there has been some streamlining of procedure.

asked the Minister of Technology what changes he expects will flow from the reorganisation of the Post Office, in so far as his sponsorship of the telecommunications industry is concerned.

It is too soon to say.

Bearing in mind the fact that the right hon. Gentleman's predecessor in his present office failed to make any impact at all on the telecommunications front in sponsorship of that industry, will the present Minister express an earnest resolve to do more than his right hon. Friend did?

I think the hon. Member is being a little ungenerous to my predecessor, because when I went into the office I discovered that a great deal had been done and will continue to be done in this field. The Question asked what results are expected to flow from a change in the organisation of the Post Office. It it too early to say that.

Will the right hon. Gentleman take the opportunity of this reorganisation to make a take-over bid for communications satellites and getting these away from the Post Office, because I believe that his Ministry is much more suitable to get this thing launched than the Post Office, which is more interested in ground stations?

That is a separate question, but just before the 1964 General Election the hon. Member's Government signed on behalf of the Post Office an agreement under which we now operate and under which "Early Bird" is now operating. That raises another question.

asked the Minister of Technology whether he will make a statement on the changes in the arrangements for procurement financed by public funds, which have been made in accordance with the terms of reference of his Department set out by the Prime Minister on 26th November, 1964.

Work on this project, which is necessarily long term, has confirmed the advantages of simplifying specifications, variety reduction and co-ordination of purchasing. These points will be increasingly evident in procurement arrangements.

Will the right hon. Gentleman seek to be a little more specific and explain what advantages have come about from the creation of his Department compared with what was prevailing before the new relationship between the D.S.I.R. and the Board of Trade, for example?

This is a very much broader business. I could give the hon. Member some examples on the use and insistence on British Standards, the purchase of British computers and the fact that 25 per cent. of local authority housing consists now of industrialised buildings, pre-production orders and so on, but he will agree that this is essentially a long-term job and we cannot expect dramatic proposals to come overnight.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what plans he has for siting an Inland Revenue computer in the Midlands; and if he will take into account the case for Stoke-on-Trent to be chosen.

None so far, but at the appropriate time a review will be made of all likely areas.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the considerable importance of this question to Stoke-on-Trent, particularly in view of the city's excessive dependence on pottery and mining and in view of the fact that unemployment figures in the city are twice the regional average?

My right hon. Friend will, of course, bear all those points in mind.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will give an assurance that the increase of fuel tax by 4d. will be temporary only, for the period of the present emergency, as was done at the time of Suez.

No, Sir.

Does that mean that the increase in petrol tax is permanent? If the right hon. Gentleman wants to reduce costs, would not the quickest way be to take the tax off?

It means that my right hon. Friend is not prepared to anticipate fiscal changes.

Nevertheless, would the right hon. Gentleman get his right hon. Friend to look with a little more sympathy than the Minister of Health did at the question of helping those who have invalid tricycles and have to pay this increased tax?

My right hon. Friend has heard what the hon. Member has said.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many former employees of Labour Party organisations have been recruited into the Civil Service since October 1964; and how many have been established or are awaiting establishment.

As no central records are kept, this information could not be produced without disproportionate cost and effort.

May I regret that the Prime Minister has side-stepped this question and handed it to the Chancellor, because this affects the whole Civil Service? Will the Chancellor give an assurance that he will not repeat the previous Socialist disaster called the "Cripps wage freeze", when Socialists were recruited as public relations officers for Government Departments and then established, as civil servants, which became an embarrassment and a liability to subsequent democratic administrations?

The hon. Member's history is quite inaccurate. So far as the present situation is concerned, there are a number of people moving into and out of the Civil Service. I. notice that one is proposing to go to the Conservative Central Office after a sojourn in the Civil Service. I think his movement into and out of Government service is a good thing.

Can the Chancellor tell us without too much research how many of the 50 extra public relations officers who have been appointed to Ministries come from Labour organisations and how many have now resigned through disillusion?

No records are kept of these matters, except for security purposes, and I think it would be improper to do so. I hope the hon. Member will not revert to the old technique of the Conservative Party in opposition of indulging in the smear and the sneer.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he has yet received the reaction of the Federal German Government to his proposals for the full coverage of the foreign exchange costs of the British Army of the Rhine; and if he will make a statement.

I am not yet ready to make a statement on this matter.

Does the Chancellor of the Exchequer still hope to achieve a full offset of the exchange costs of the Rhine Army by 30th September, or has this hope been abandoned, as some reports have suggested? Will he bear in mind that, if all the cuts in Government overseas expenditure are to fall in Europe, this will throw a very sinister light on the Government's priorities?

I do not think that any question of a date for recovering the full amount was put on the question of the offset payments, but it is certainly our intention in these negotiations to recover the costs in full, by one means or another. I note what the hon. Gentleman said in the second part of his supplementary question.

Has my right hon. Friend observed that the Federal Government are now pleading economic difficulties as an excuse for not meeting the foreign exchange costs? To relieve them of some of their difficulties, if they are not prepared to pay up, can we have the troops brought home?

It is the policy of Her Majesty's Government, in so far as it is not possible to offset the total cost of these troops, that they should be brought home.

As the Chancellor has relied heavily on this matter ever since the Budget, will he be able to make a statement before we go into Recess for the summer?

No, I do not think so. We have had a reply from the German Government, and this is now being considered, but the negotiations will go on certainly until the early autumn.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what effect he anticipates the recent economic measures will have upon national and private savings.

The measures will have no direct effect on National Savings, but they will on balance tend to increase personal savings.

Does the Chancellor agree that, in the present economic circumstances and difficulties, an increased level of savings is more necessary than ever? As last week the level of National Savings fell below that for the same time last year, will the right hon. Gentleman look again at the many schemes which have been put before him and not be so complacent?

I thought that a factual answer could not betray either complacency or the lack of it. As to the particular point the hon. Gentleman raises, National Savings have done well this year because of the introduction of the new National Savings Certificate, but there always are withdrawals in the holiday weeks. I hope that the level of savings will pick up again when the holidays are over.

In making that reply, what assumptions has the Chancellor made about the level of interest offered by building societies?

There will be an answer on that, I hope, if my right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government catches Mr. Speaker's eye at the end of Questions.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many copies of the National Plan have been printed: how many have been distributed; what is the total cost thereof; how many copies remain undistributed; and whether he proposes to print any more.

25,000 copies of the Plan were printed at a cost of £13,250. Of these, 3,843 are still in stock.

What is to happen to the copies which are undistributed? Will they be destroyed, or will they be enshrined as an awful warning to future Governments? When the amendments are to be made, will the right hon. Gentleman urge whoever is responsible for the D.E.A. at that time that he should be a little more cautious and modest than the present incumbent?

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman and the House will be glad to know that a profit has been made on the sales of the Plan. As for the balance, I could send the copies to hon. Members opposite so that they could read during the Recess those sections which deal with the deep-seated origin, during the last thirteen years, of the balance of payments deficit.

Did the £13,000 cost merely mean the printing costs, or did it include the amount it cost to compile the Plan? Could the Chancellor tell us how much loss has resulted if all the costs are included?

No, not without notice.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what was the cost of an advertisement on 31st July in the Sunday Times headed, "Do you find our customs exasperating"; in how many other newspapers or other advertising media similar advertisements have been inserted by the Customs and Excise; and if he will discontinue such advertising in view of the present financial difficulty and curtailed travelling.

£1,096; seven other newspapers or weekly publications. There would be no advantage or financial saving in curtailing this small campaign; it is due to end in mid-August.

Is the Chief Secretary aware that this absurd and frivolous advertisement has caused a great deal of offence to many people? As the present Government have broken so many promises, they might well cancel this advertisement and nobody would miss it.

No, I am not so aware. In fact, there has been considerably increased co-operation on passage through the Customs as the result of this advertisement. Some 50,000 requests have been made to Customs headquarters for this helpful pamphlet. There have been precisely two protests at the expenditure.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer following the Government's new economic measures, what is now their policy regarding the percentage of the gross national product which is spent on defence.

The policy of Her Majesty's Government is to reduce the proportion of defence expenditure to the gross national product to a level no higher than 6 per cent. by 1969–70.

This will involve a reduction. Will the Chancellor always bear in mind what was said in the Government's Defence Review, which emphasised that British Armed Forces overseas play a very important part in the maintenance of world peace? The Review also said that no country with a sense of international responsibility would abandon such a task.

Yes, Sir. The Answer I gave was based on the White Paper. The Review also says that it is important that our strength should not be overstrained. It is certainly the policy of the Government that our contribution to world peace-keeping should be as great as, though not necessarily greater than, all the other nations of the world.