asked the Minister of Labour if he will make a statement about progress in the pay and productivity talks with the railwaymen arising from the Prime Minister's meeting with them in mid-March.

Following several joint meetings chaired by myself or one of my officials and subsequent direct informal discussions between the British Railways Board and the unions, a further joint meeting chaired by one of my officials is to be held tomorrow.

Could the Minister say what progress has been made in these talks about increasing productivity, in particular about the question of liner trains?

The hon. Gentleman will know that great improvements have been made in the operation of liner trains, but the talks which have so far taken place, as he knows, are of great complexity, with the whole of the negotiating machinery and consultative machinery being examined and analysed, and particularly the grading structure in its relationship to greater efficiency.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will consider introducing, as one of the subjects for decision at the current railways pay and productivity talks being held under the auspices of his Department, the adoption of techniques of planning freight train workings by computer which have been developed at Hull.

The matters being discussed in the talks under my Ministry's chairmanship include a review of railway pay and grade structure designed to facilitate the introduction of new methods, such as that still being developed at Hull.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that on the basis of the research done at Hull, the new technique of operational planning, which takes four hours compared with three weeks if done manually, can result in as much as a 50 per cent. saving of the work involved?

As I have already said, an analysis of what is required there is now going on. The British Railways Board has told me that it is still under technical development, and it will form part of the negotiations going on.

Would it not be a good idea, if we have new techniques, to let them be exploited to the full by having free access to liner train depôts?

The liner trains are being cared for. I do not know why there is this sudden outburst of interest.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will introduce legislation to indemnify those employers who, while carrying out Government policy by withholding wage increases, are sued by their employees for breach of contract, before Part IV of the Prices and Incomes Act is introduced.

Part IV of the Prices and Incomes Act has now been brought into force.

But does not the Minister realise that Part IV of the Act is due to expire in a year's time? Does not the Minister realise that there is nothing more disgraceful than to allow a company to be brought before the court when its only crime has been to follow out Government policy? How do the Government expect to get co-operation from employers when Part IV lapses?

The hon. Gentleman will know that one of the pleasant features of these our present difficulties has been the co-operation which has been given both by employers and trade unions. The hon. Member will know that discussions which are now taking place and which have been taking place and which will continue to take place are about the future.

asked the Minister of Labour how many homes and workshops under Government control and supervision are now available for the care and training of incapacitated men and women including ex-Service men and women; and what are his plans for enlarging and increasing the facilities available to such men and women.

If my hon. and learned Friend will let me know what particular aspects he is interested in, I should be glad to let him have information about it.

I was hoping that my hon. Friend would understand that my particular interest is in the homes in Aberdeen, and those incapacitated persons who are unable to walk. What provision is made for their transport and their exercise?

My hon. and learned Friend will appreciate that responsibility for such homes is divided among many authorities. If he will be kind enough to put down a further Question I shall be glad to attempt to answer it.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he has yet received a report on the pilot survey conducted by Her Majesty's Factory Inspectorate in 1965 to seek to discover the reasons for the continuing increase in the number of reported industrial accidents; whether the report reached firm conclusions; and if he will make a statement.

Following consideration of a paper based on the reports submitted by the two inspectors concerned in the Industrial Safety Sub-Committee of my National Joint Advisory Council, the subject is being further examined in my Department. The survey was a pilot study, intended to indicate lines for further inquiry; it was not expected to reach firm conclusions.

Cannot the Minister give us some idea when he will set up an inquiry which will be able to reach firm conclusions, and will he not agree that when information becomes available which may be relevant to industrial accidents the maximum possible publicity should be given to it to aid industry to reverse this rising trend?

I hope that the revised draft will be put to the first meeting of the Safety Advisory Industrial Council which I am setting up in consultation with the C.B.I. and the T.U.C. I hope that the revised draft will receive consideration then.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that a pilot survey of this kind was carried out in my constituency of Halifax as long ago as 1957, with some appalling results? Surely it is time the Government took responsibility in this matter and ceased to carry out surveys?

I am not so sure that the year my hon. Friend refers to is the year we are talking about—of this pilot scheme—but I am very impressed by the urgency of this matter. I hope that the talks, which are now almost continuous at the Ministry between both sides of industry, will lead to some results ere long.

asked the Minister of Labour what steps have so far been taken to implement the proposals contained in the Report on the Appointed Factory Doctor Service by a Sub-Committee of the Industrial Health Advisory Committee published in April, 1966.

Interested bodies were invited to comment on the Report. The majority of replies have now been received. The views expressed will be taken into account in considering the recommendations.

Will not the hon. Lady agree that there were some very important proposals arising from this Sub Committee and that they should be implemented as quickly as possible? Can she give us some idea how soon they will be?

The hon. Member will appreciate that there are a number of bodies which are anxious to have their views considered carefully. We are awaiting those views still, and discussions will take place as soon as they all come in.

asked the Minister of Labour what is the level of unemployment which it is the policy of Her Majesty's Government to create in the motor industry.

It is not the Government's policy to create unemployment in the motor industry.

Whether that unemployment is created deliberately or inadvertently, can the right hon. Gentleman say what useful purpose is served from the point of view of our balance of payments by driving men out of this highly important export industry and forcing his own officers to try to place them in such services as ladies' hair-dressing?

The right hon. Gentleman is one of those who have advanced the doctrine that some heat should be taken out of the economy. The home consumption of motor cars was a factor in that overheating. It is impossible to deny that the deflationary measures have contributed to reducing the labour requirements of that industry, and the right hon. Gentleman will be aware that there is a considerable amount of short-time working. Of course there is redundancy and short-time working, but we hope that, in the end, there will be a better-equipped industry.

With B.MC. workers lobbying Members here today, would it not be more fair for a Government Minister to meet them this afternoon, to tell them the whole truth and let them know how things stand for the future?

Not only was publicity given to the fact that they were here—I was made aware of that at 10.30 this morning—but the Prime Minister and I, with other Ministers, will be meeting them some time this afternoon.

asked the Minister of Labour what guidance he is giving to employers in the light of the decision of the Edmonton County Court judge in the case of Allen versus Thorn Electrical Industries Limited.

I am advising employers that they should continue to seek the agreement of their employees to the deferment of pay increases. Now that Part IV of the Prices and Incomes Act is in force, Section 30 provides them with a legal defence for disregarding pay increases in contracts made before 6th October, 1966, after they have given not less than one week's written notice of their intention to pay not less than the rate paid immediately before Part IV came into force.

Does it not follow from that that, where there are such agreements, the union and its members are entitled to the increases due under the agreements up to at any rate 6th October or perhaps for some days thereafter? Will the right hon. Gentleman give guidance to employers whether, in those circumstances, an employer is to fight a hopeless action in the courts or pay up?

The right hon. Gentleman knows the position as well as I do, and perhaps better. In our view, Section 30 of the Act protects any employer who withholds a pay increase due after 6th October. It also provides the defence in respect of any period after that date for an employer who withholds an increase before 6th October but not paid by that date. In any particular case, the application of Section 30 must depend on the facts of the case. In the last resort, it is a matter for the courts. I would re-emphasise that I hope the employer will continue to seek agreement to the deferment of the pay increase.

If the Opposition favour the Government's telling employers what to do should proceedings be taken against them, is not that inconsistent with their criticism that the Government encroach unduly on the liberties of the subject?

I should think that that is a fair deduction.

asked the Minister of Labour what were the numbers of unemployed persons in Sheffield during July, August and September, 1966, the percentage of the insured workers in Sheffield which these numbers represent, and the comparable numbers for July, August and September, 1965.

As the reply consists of a table of figures, I will with permission circulate it in the Official Report.

Would my hon. Friend say what special steps are being taken by her Department for the retraining and redeployment of men in Sheffield who have been made redundant by the present measures?

The figures show that unemployment in Sheffield is still far be low the national average. There are good reasons to believe that prospects are good for almost all types of workers in the area.

asked the Minister of Labour how many were registered as unemployed in the Bathgate area at the last available date; and how many were registered as unemployed at equivalent dates in October, 1962, October, 1963. October, 1964, and October, 1965.

On 10th October, 1966, there were 2,267 persons registered as unemployed at the Bathgate Employment Exchange. The corresponding figures for October in 1965, 1964, 1963 and 1962 were 596, 704, 982 and 1,031 respectively.

asked the Minister of Labour how many of those declared redundant at the British Motor Corporation, Bathgate, registered at Ministry of Labour employment exchanges; and how many of these have been placed in jobs.

675 have registered and 83 have been placed. In addition, 91 are known to have found work.

Do not those figures warrant an early decision in off-the-job adult retraining, to which the right hon. Gentleman the Minister of Labour referred in last week's debate?

I would remind my hon. Friend that in that debate the Minister referred to a later announcement which he would be making on this matter.

asked the Minister of Labour how many of the vacancies known to his Department in the Oxford area at the present time are in manufacturing and service industries, respectively.

On 5th October, there were 1,420 vacancies in manufacturing industries—including 577 for men, 323 for women, 215 for boys and 305 for girls. There were 2,721 vacancies in service industries—including 738 for men, 1,140 for women, 328 for boys and 515 for girls.

In view of the fact that about 2,000 people will be made redundant in one of our most important exporting manufacturing industries, do not those figures show that the shake-out that was intended to take place is taking place in the opposite direction, out of manufacturing industries into service industries?

It is true that, in the Oxford area in particular, service industries have more vacancies to offer than manufacturing. This is not the case in most other areas in which car workers are being made redundant.

Can the hon. Lady say how many people there are out of work today in the Oxford area?

I am sorry. I cannot say at the moment. I will give the hon. Gentleman the figures later.

asked the Minister of Labour how many of those British Motor Corporation workers recently made redundant in Oxford were found employment by his Department in the manufacturing and service industries, respectively.

The redundancies are not due to take effect until Friday, 4th November. However, we have so far found employment for 33 of those workers in manufacturing industries, 62 in service industries, and 35 in others.

Do not those figures again confirm that most of those who have been made redundant are finding employment in service industries? As the Minister recognised in debate last week that there is a special problem in Oxford owing to the lack of alternative employment, may I ask whether my hon. Friend can give an assurance that prompt, decisive and co-ordinated action will be taken by the Ministries responsible to ensure that adequate employment is found in Oxford to take on these workers?

Yes, Sir. We have approached no fewer than 2,500 firms in the Oxford area by personal letter. At the moment, in the immediate Oxford area—that is to say, within possible travelling distance—there are 6,850 vacancies for men.

asked the Minister of Labour whether the standstill on incomes applies to professional sport.

Yes, Sir.

Is the Minister satisfied that sporting employers are accepting and following his policy? What investigation of the situation is the right hon. Gentleman making as to whether such employers are accepting and following his policy?

We have had no reason so far to follow it up, but if the hon. Gentleman has any specific case in mind, I will investigate it.

Does my right hon. Friend's Answer refer to the huge capital sums that are paid over, from which the employee benefits in football sports, for example, or does it refer only to the fees, or whatever they are called, which he gets for playing in matches?

As I understand the intricacies of soccer, the transfer fees are not part of the player's income. I would suggest that that is a question which should be directed to my hon. Friend the Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the Department of Education and Science, who is in charge of it.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will now state an up-to-date and revised estimate of the numbers unemployed, after redeployment during this winter.

As I made clear in the debate on 24th October I am not prepared to forecast future levels of unemployment.

Is not a total of 470,000 after redeployment far too high, particularly when compared with, say, West Germany where there are only 130,000 unemployed? Secondly, will the Minister confirm the hint given by the Prime Minister last week when pressed about relaxing the deflationary measures before it is too late?

I do not know what exactly I am asked to confirm, but I think that the Prime Minister has said on a number of occasions that the position is being watched and, when the time comes in his opinion and in the opinion of the Government, the necessary steps will be taken.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will give the dates, during the period from 1951 to 1964, when the unemployment figures exceeded a total of 350,000.

Total numbers registered as unemployed exceeded 350,000 on 88 of the 168 monthly counts during the period. I will with permission circulate details in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Does my hon. Friend agree that this is rather a shocking record of the Tory Government? Will she state when the figures under the Tory Administration exceeded 473,000? Does not she agree that under the Labour Government schemes for retraining men in new skills have far exceeded anything that the Tories ever did?

Yes, but we would not deny that both retraining facilities and also economic assistance in development areas must be taken further still.

Does the Minister nevertheless agree that it is likely that this figure of 350,000 will be doubled before we get through this winter? Does she not further agree that when her party was elected to power it was on the basis that it would get rid of "stop-go" and not give us a worse "stop" than before?

I am not as good at reading crystal balls as is the hon. Member.

asked the Minister of Labour what were the weekly gross wages of the Daily Mirror employees whose unofficial strike lost the newspaper 3,000,000 circulation; what hours they worked; what fringe benefits they enjoyed; what steps he takes to make labour available for the newspaper industry; and if he will make a statement.

The detailed information asked for is not available, but average weekly earnings for adult male workers in the printing industry were £28 6s. 1d. in April, 1966, and average weekly hours were 44·8.

The employment services of my Ministry are available, but the majority of engagements in this industry are made through the trade unions.

I am happy to note that the industry has resolved this dispute through its own machinery.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that there are a lot of low-paid workers who would be jolly glad to get £28 a week in this better-paid and protected industry? Why does he not draft some of the lower-paid workers into these highly privileged jobs?

We have had enough trouble about drafting already. I am sure that there are millions of lower-paid workers who would very much welcome £28 a week.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether the wages of any of the ten top newspaper directors exceeds £28 a week, and if so, by how much?

I could not answer the latter part of my hon. Friend's question, but I should not think that there are any who get less than £28.

asked the Minister of Labour in what industries, principally, are the 5,000,000 jobs that depend upon exports; how he proposes to guarantee full employment to these workers in instances where difficulties are experienced in export markets; and if he will make a statement.

The contribution to exports is widely spread but with a particular contribution from the manufacturing industries. I am not able to guarantee employment to any worker.

Will the right hon. Gentleman go into the Lobby now and tell that to the 50 representatives of the motor car workers, especially as it is estimated that there are 5 million jobs depending upon exports, and the Government cannot guarantee that the foreigner will buy the products of those workers?

I do not understand the implication of the first part of the hon. Gentleman's remarks. I have repeatedly said to the car workers—and in the House—that no one can guarantee full employment in this country until it is earned, and they have heard me say it.

asked the Minister of Labour what estimate he has made of the numbers of persons who will be unemployed in Scotland by the end of the year; and if he is satisfied that his Department has adequate staff to cope with the speedy and effective redeployment of this number.

I am not prepared to make estimates of this sort. I am satisfied that sufficient staff will be available to enable my Department to deal with any additional work in Scotland.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we have more than three unemployed people for every vacant job in Scotland, and that there is no need for more heat to be taken out of the economy? Can he say whether the Government have a figure of employment at which a recovery plan will be introduced? If so, what is the figure, and what is the plan?

I have no figure in mind.

Can my right hon. Friend give an assurance that the figure of 136,000 which was reached in February, 1963, will not be reached under this Government?

I could not guarantee anything, but I certainly hope not.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that if he adds even the present unemployment figures in Scotland to the record-breaking number of people who have emigrated from Scotland in these last two years the Government stand condemned in the eyes of all people in Scotland who think about it?

I am not sure of the exact number who have emigrated, but, as an émigré myself, I can say that there are certain advantages in emigrating.

asked the Minister of Labour what special steps his Department is taking to assist in the redeployment of persons made redundant in Scotland.

At the earliest moment teams of employment officers are going into the factories affected by major redundancies to give assistance and advice about jobs. A special drive has been made to bring in vacancies from all employers within reach of the areas affected.

Does the hon. Lady appreciate that there is a danger of a sudden deterioration in the situation? The staff are already overworked in Scotland. What plans are there if such an emergency should arise?

If a sudden emergency arises, the Minister's rather meagre staff from other areas move in and give them special training in the work that they have to do.

Is my hon. Friend aware that everybody involved in this situation, whatever else they may disagree about, praises the work done by the Ministry of Labour officials?

I am glad to hear my hon. Friend's tribute. We, too, very much admire the work which is being done under pressure by Ministry of Labour staff.

Does not the rising figure of unemployment in Scotland make nonsense of the Secretary of State's statement that Scotland would be sheltered from the freeze?

During the debate on Monday I pointed out that Scotland had to a considerable extent not suffered as much as some other regions on this occasion, nor as much as on previous occasions.

asked the Minister of Labour how many men and women have left service employment in North Devon to enter the manufacturing industries either in North Devon or further afield.

I regret that the information is not available.

May I tell the hon. Lady that there is virtually none? Would not she agree that this makes nonsense of the Selective Employment Tax and its effects in these regional areas? Will she do something immediately to rectify this situation, possibly by some form of differential?

The hon. Gentleman will realise that North Devon has for a long time had little manufacturing industry, in spite of efforts made by the previous Government also. It is, however, the case that North Devon is now part of a development area, and as such is receiving additional privileges compared with areas which are not development areas.

Is the hon. Lady aware that in the Ilfracombe area, which depends on tourism, and where the S.E.T. has had its hardest effect, unemployment is now 10·2 per cent. of the employed population? Is the hon. Lady aware that this is 2·6 per cent. higher than last year? Is she further aware that the one chance of getting 400 men employed in an advance factory is being blocked by the Ministry of Transport because of an access problem? Will the hon. Lady look into that?

I am aware that an advance factory is expected to go into production shortly, but that there are obstacles. We shall do what we can to look into it.

Can my hon. Friend give an assurance that the kind of information sought in the Question will be acquired so that when the Chancellor of the Exchequer has to make up his mind about whether to apply the S.E.T. on a regional basis he will have some proper evidence on which to work?

The figures to show changes as between one industry and another are available on the mid-year counts of the National Insurance cards, but they are not available yet.

asked the Minister of Labour what retraining facilities are available in North Devon to deal with the increasing number of unemployed.

There are no Government Training Centres in North Devon. Unemployed people who both want and are suitable for the accelerated training for skill undertaken at Government Training Centres may be able to train at the newly opened Centre at Plymouth or at the Bristol Government Training Centre.

May I ask the hon. Lady whether she is sure that Plymouth is adequately covered? Bearing in mind the long distance which people have to travel, would not she agree that what is needed is a sub-centre in North Devon to deal with this problem?

We have to place Government training centres as far as possible near the centres of population and near industry. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that Plymouth has only just started. I think that we had better wait to see how far it can meet the needs of the area.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. We are grateful that the Government have reopened a training centre which was closed by the previous Tory Government. Already all the places in Plymouth are fully occupied. Will my hon. Friend please consider opening another retraining centre, possibly in Exeter?

I thank my hon. Friend for her remarks. They will certainly be taken into consideration.

asked the Minister of Labour what proposals he has for the training of shop stewards to equip them for their industrial relations work.

asked the Minister of Labour what action he is taking to promote industrial relations and training courses for shop stewards.

The primary responsibility for the training of shop stewards is, of course, a matter for the trade unions concerned, but it is part of the work of our industrial relations officers to assist, where necessary, the promotion of suitable training for shop stewards.

My right hon. Friend is at present in touch with the T.U.C. and the C.B.I. about the part which industrial training boards might play in this matter.

In view of the fact that as the trade unions, with the notable exception of the E.T.U., have done very little indeed about this, does not the Minister agree that the Government would be justified in trying to stimulate this, either directly or through industrial training boards? There is a very great need for more training as shop stewards.

There is no question about the advantages to be gained from shop stewards' training. I would refer the hon. Gentleman to the fact that the Engineering Industry Training Board has already announced that shop steward training may be included in the grants scheme and the Construction Industry Training Board has made a grant in respect of a training course for shop stewards, so we are moving forward.

Is my hon. Friend aware that many such courses, sponsored by the Workers Educational Association and university extra-mural departments, in collaboration with employers and trade unions, have been taking place for some time but that their expansion to meet the need is held up by a shortage of funds? Will she consult the Secretary of State for Education and Science about the way in which this difficulty can be overcome?

Some excellent work has been done, not least by the W.E.A. and the extra-mural departments. My Ministry is concerned to try to increase the number of courses available under these schemes.

Will the Minister take note of the fact that courses of this kind are being mounted in more and more of our technical colleges in industrial centres? Will she urge her right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science to encourage this development?

My Department will be quite prepared to get into touch with my right hon. Friend in order to make sure that he is aware of this development and does everything possible to support it.

Does not my hon. Friend agree that there is also a need to stimulate further management training in this field in order to arrive at a new criterion of "What you know", and not the other one of "Whom you need to know", or "Who your dad was"?

My right hon. Friend is at least equally aware of that need.

asked the Minister of Labour what he expects will be the total number of men redeployed during the winter of 1966–67.

I am unable to estimate the number of men who will change jobs in any given period.

Did the Minister without Portfolio show the right hon. Gentleman a copy of his Press hand-out, in which he appears to advocate the direction of labour? Can he deny that this is any part of Government policy?

What this has to do with the Question before us I have no idea. [HON. MEMBERS: "Answer."] I am coming to the answer. The Minister without Portfolio immediately sent out a correction. All I say is that there is no thought at all in the mind of the Government on the question of the direction of labour. I would remind the hon. Gentleman that when he asks a Question of this character at least he should know that between 8 million and 9 million people change their jobs every year, so how I can be asked to assesss how many will do so by next winter I do not know.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a very senior official who has advised Cabinet Ministers said, some months ago, that either we should have S.E.T. or direction of labour? He said that to me personally. Will the right hon. Gentleman now deny that it is not in the Government's mind to consider this?

I have no observation at all to make on what I should imagine was a private conversation.

On a point of order. Is it right for an hon. Member of this House to quote a senior official, presumably a civil servant, giving the impression that he conveyed certain information or ideas, particularly without mentioning his name?

Whether it is right or not is for the House to judge. It is not a point of order.

asked the Minister of Labour what study he has made of the report published by the Industrial Society, a copy of which has been sent to him, regarding the position of manual workers in industry; and what action he will take.

I believe that my hon. Friend is referring to the booklet called "Status and Benefits in Industry". I think that the report is a useful contribution to study of this important subject. It has been brought to the attention of my officers who advise industry on such matters.

Would my right hon. Friend agree that the Report confirms that manual workers are placed at a great disadvantage in industry? Does not he consider it wrong that a skilled manual worker with 30 or 40 years' experience should still be considered inferior in terms of conditions, sickness pay, clocking in and out, and other matters?

I have repeatedly said so.

The Minister is no doubt aware that I was closely associated with those who presented this document. Does not he agree that it is something that industry and the trade unions would do better to sort out for themselves, and that it is not for the Government to do so?

I am not unaware of the complications that exist between employers and trade unions in this matter.

asked the Minister of Labour what has been the effect of the Selective Employment Tax on redundancy in the Highlands and the North-East of Scotland; and what alternative work is being provided for those affected.

It is too early to assess the effect of the tax on employment in the Highlands and North-East of Scotland.

Is the Minister aware that the service industries which have to pay this absurd tax are the industries which have provided a large proportion of all the employment in the area?

Yes, we are well aware of that. But I am informed that there have been no large-scale dismissals which can be directly attributed to the imposition of the tax.

Does not my hon. Friend agree that the working of this tax has been so unselective that it is time that we had a look at the situation, so that we might ensure that the Chancellor fully reviews it in April, from the point of view of regional or industrial differentiation?

My right hon. Friend the Chancellor has made it clear that the tax will be reviewed after it has been in operation for a year—and that review will take place.

asked the Minister of Labour what plans he has for improving the service given by employment exchanges for dealing with the increased numbers of unemployed.

We are sending special teams of employment officers into factories to deal with large-scale redundancies, but in general we are steadily improving the employment services everywhere in respect of staff, training, and local organisation.

Is not the hon. Lady aware that at the present time many employment exchanges do not have recorded with them the number of vacancies for skilled men that exist in other parts of the country? Will my hon. Friend seek to put this right? It is important that these exchanges should be employment exchanges and not unemployment exchanges.

I agree with the hon. Member about that. There are regular arrangements for the interchange of information about vacancies in different parts of the country. We are looking into ways, through conference telephone calls and also through the use of other machinery, to improve and speed up this system further.

Is my hon. Friend aware that, partly due to the increasing Americanisation and control of British industry a growing number of senior executives are being made unemployed? Will she consider whether or not the Ministry's Professional and Executive Register can be expanded to cope with the need to redeploy these people through a wide range of industry?

We are working on the expansion and improvement of the Professional and Executive Register, but I agree that we should take the question further still.

asked the Minister of Labour who represented this country at the International Labour Convention 48th Session in Geneva; whether they took part in proceedings relating to Convention 122, concerning employment policy; and whether Great Britain is a signatory to this Convention.

The United Kingdom delegation consisted of two senior officers from my Department and two other delegates representing respectively employer's and workers' organisations. They were assisted by 28 advisers from Government Departments and from employers' and workers' organisations. The answer to the second and third parts of the Question is "Yes".

Has the Minister read the report of the debate that took place on 12th August concerning the closed shop policy in local authorities and in industry? To what extent does he consider that the operation of a closed shop policy in industry and local authorities is compatible with this Convention?

The whole question of the closed shop—which is a very complicated one, and differs in terms from the situation in other countries—is now before the Royal Commission, and I hope that it will give us guidance on it.

asked the Minister of Labour what proposals he has for revising the scales of his Department's allowances at Government training centres.

None. The scales of allowances were revised as recently as October last year. In addition, since 6th October this year an earnings-related supplement has been paid in appropriate cases. The amount of any supplement payable depends on the level of the trainee's earnings during the last tax year. Supplements, which are calculated on the same scale as those to short-term National Insurance benefit, are payable for the duration of a course.

Is my hon. Friend aware that, notwithstanding these improvements, the average amount paid to workers in training centres is roughly half the average earnings in manufacturing industry? This inevitably causes hardship to workers in training centres. Would she look further into the matter in the light of the present rather difficult circumstances?

While appreciating my hon. Friend's concern, I would point out that a man is better off on training allowances than unemployment and sickness benefit unless he has more than five children.

asked the Minister of Labour (1) what is the total amount of money given in redundancy payments to date; and what part of this total relates to payments made to workers in the construction industry; and

Between 6th December, 1965, when the Redundancy Payments Act came into operation, and 30th September, 1966, £17,330,000 was paid out in redundancy payments under the Act. It is estimated that about £1,160,000 of this or 6·7 per cent., of which about £900,000 was borne by the Redundancy Fund, related to payments made to workers in the construction industry. It is also estimated that during the same period contributions from employers in the construction industry to the Redundancy Fund amounted to about £1,250,000.

The essential part of Question No. 37 was in relation to the number of operatives that this amount covered in payments from employers. I wonder whether the Minister is aware that this information, showing how many workers are officially employed in the industry and covered by the payment, is essential to the unions pressing for information about the growth of labour-only sub-contracting in the industry.

As my hon. Friend knows, the whole question to which he refers is under discussion between the unions and myself and the employers. I would hope to report progress to him before very long.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will now include in his quarterly figures of those in part-time employment, male as well as female workers, in manufacturing, and widen the survey to include both sexes partly employed in all industries and professions.

No, Sir. The number of part-time male workers in manufacturing industries is not significant. Information about part-time employment in industries and professions as a whole is available from the Censuses of Population. Annual estimates are also obtainable from the Family Expenditure Survey, and are to be made more comprehensive in future. I am satisfied that the cost of extending the quarterly survey as suggested would not be justified.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will estimate how many of the 2,066,000 persons last recorded as being in part-time employment have now ceased to be employed.

It is not possible to make such an estimate. A more recent figure for part-time employment will become available next year from the 1966 Census of Population.

Would not the hon. Lady agree that this is a figure which comes out only once every five years in the Census and that we should do something to make it more relative and more accurate over a shorter period? Surely something can be done to this effect.

We have one other guide. The right hon. Gentleman might be interested to know that the number of registered unemployed people seeking part-time work this month was practically identical with the number in October, 1965.

Could my hon. Friend provide figures showing how many directors are part-time employed or unemployed?

I cannot give a precise figure, but I think that it would be interesting.

Bearing in mind the fact that unemployment among the registered disabled was higher than the national average before the Government's measures, which have brought about a considerable increase in unemployment, can she say how many unemployed part-time workers are disabled? If she does not know, can she find out?

We could give a figure if the hon. Gentleman would put down another Question.

asked the Minister of Labour what steps he is taking to increase the training or retraining of workers on Merseyside, in view of the increase in unemployment in that area.

Liverpool already has one of the largest Government Training Centres in the country. However, as my right hon. Friend told the House on 24th October, we are urgently examining what further expansion of Centres in the short term is possible. Most training needed by unemployed workers is at semi-skilled level and is best given in industry itself. We are examining with the industrial training boards ways in which they might help with the immediate re-training problem.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that it is vital that this service be expanded in view of the fact that there was a rise in unemployment of approximately 3,000 in the last month and the number of workers trained last year was just over 500? Would she look at the matter again and endeavour to speed up activities in this direction?

The possibility of a second Government training centre on Merseyside is under consideration at present.

asked the Minister of Labour what rise in unemployment there has been in Dorset, and in Bridport in particular; and what is the number of unfilled vacancies.

Between 11th October, 1965, and 10th October, 1966, total numbers registered as unemployed increased in Dorset from 1,550 to 2,041 and at Bridport from 191 to 257.

On 5th October, 1966, 1,333 notified vacancies remained unfilled at employment exchanges and youth employment offices in Dorset, of which 36 were at Bridport.

Is the Minister aware that this is quite an alarming figure for Dorset? Does she expect it to get any worse in the near future?

The increase in the immediate area has been 645 since the introduction of the Selective Employment Tax. I repeat what I said in answer to an earlier Question—we are keeping a very close watch on the effect of the Selective Employment Tax in such areas.

asked the Minister of Labour whether it is his practice to institute inquires into the causes of strikes, unofficial or otherwise; and how many such investigations took place in 1965 and 1966, up to 30th September.

Yes, Sir, where I consider that such action would be appropriate. Between 1st January, 1965, and 30th September, 1966, I have appointed five Courts of Inquiry and four other formal inquiries into disputes which involved strikes. Five of these strikes were unofficial.

Would the Minister indicate whether he would be prepared to consider an inquiry into each industrial dispute so that we might examine the common problem or common factor which might emerge? Would he consider what preventive work is being done by his Ministry, possibly to avoid some of the rather prejudiced statements made by certain hon. Members, such as the hon. Members for Cirencester and Tewkesbury (Mr. Ridley) and Louth (Sir C. Osborne), during this discussion?

The first question, whether we should have an inquiry into every unofficial strike, has been discussed over the years, and it is almost an impossible task at this time. In addition there is always the danger of cutting across the established negotiating machine of the union. But I have drawn attention to this problem in the evidence which the Ministry of Labour has submitted to the Royal Commission about the fact finding which lies behind strikes. I hope that we shall get some guidance. But it is a very complicated problem because so many unofficial strikes come out of the blue and are over in half a shift or one shift, and the best thing is to get back to the job.

Is the Ministry of Labour taking any action at all on the question of unofficial strikes or what new machinery can be introduced to solve them quickly, or is the right hon. Gentleman merely waiting for the result of the Royal Commission for all these things?

The hon. Member knows that one of the most fruitful experiments in this matter was that introduced in the motor car industry where Mr. Jack Scamp has done a remarkable job in immediately investigating unofficial strikes. We are exploring with other industries how we may come to terms with this problem. I repeat to the House that our biggest problem concerns what prestige we sometimes give to the unofficial strikers when they themselves wrongly reject the machinery which is already there.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will approach the existing dock labour organisations in the London docks with a view to their amalgamation in order to avoid demarcation disputes which have caused unemployment to dock employees.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will consider appointing an inquiry into the demarcation dispute between the two unions concerned in the Millwall Dock dispute.

I have appointed a Court of Inquiry into the immediate difficulties, and normal working has been resumed.

Efforts to improve relations between the two organisations concerned have been made over a long period and are being continued, but it would not be appropriate or help matters for me to propose amalgamation.

My right hon. Friend must be aware that the existence of these two important dock labour unions, both in the London Docks, in Merseyside and elsewhere, has been a source of much trouble over a period of years. What is the purpose of having a Court of Inquiry after the dispute begins when there is a possibility of preventing the dispute from taking place? In spite of the difficulties that are entailed, will he make a further effort to bring these two important unions together with a view to amalgamation?

Certainly I will do everything within my power, but I remind my right hon. Friend—with his long experience I am sure that he will take the point—that the responsibility for solving this inter-union warfare within the docks at least ought to be shared with the General Council of the Trades Union Congress, and they have been trying to come to terms with it. If my right hon. Friend wants me to say that the solution to many of our problems in the docks would be one union, I would entirely agree with him. In the efforts which I am making to have a common registration in the docks we may make a move in that direction.

What are the grave difficulties that prevent this sensible amalgamation between these two competing unions?

I would only say to the hon. Gentleman that he should turn to the history of industrial relations in the docks.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he will now make a statement on the future development of the Youth Employment Service.

No, Sir. I wish to consult the interested local authority associations and my National Youth Employment Council on the legislative recommendations of the Albemarle Working Party, before making any further statement.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this is the third stonewalling Answer which I have had from the Government Bench on this subject in the last six months? Is it not time that the Government's recommendations were put before the House? Is he aware that there is a widespread feeling that what is needed is a comprehensive careers advisory service not concentrating solely on school leavers but available to all who need help?

If the hon. Member would be patient until Christmas time, I hope before then to issue a statement on the memorandum arising from the working party.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will give for each of the years 1963 to 1966 the number of school leavers who had not found employment within three months of leaving school.

The figures are as follows: 1963, 19,557; 1964, 8,538; 1965, 6,449 and 1966, 7,762.

While thanking my hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask her whether she is aware that in my constituency the youth employment officer expresses concern whether he will find difficulty in placing school leavers when the next batch leaves? [An HON. MEMBER: "Old Etonians?"] Not only ex-Etonians. Is she aware of this, and could she say whether it is peculiar to Slough or is likely to be repeated in other parts of the country?

In October, 1966, only 1·6 per cent. of the summer leavers known to the Youth Employment Service were still unemployed and prospects in most areas are good. It may be that this is a local difficulty which my hon. Friend may like to raise with us.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will discuss with Vauxhall Motors Limited the average numbers which they hope to employ at Luton and Dunstable, respectively, for the years 1967, 1968, 1969, and 1970.

My local officers are in frequent touch with Vauxhall Motors about future developments in employment. The firm has also co-operated with my Department in studies of future employment trends by providing forecasts up to 1968 and longer-term indications of changes in occupational structure.

I am grateful for that Answer and I am sure that the Minister will agree with me that long-term planning of this kind is essential if we are to avoid redundancies in this type of industry every few years. Will he further agree with me that the Government are a vital third party in any discussion between men and management in this field?

I would agree on both points.

Does not the Minister agree that while it is important for a firm such as Vauxhalls to negotiate and liaise with his own Ministry, it would be wrong to disclose the figures of people they hope to employ five years hence in view of the possibility of giving information to competitors?

I am grateful to the hon. Member for making the point and for allowing me to point out that the figures are given to us in confidence and will be retained as such.

asked the Minister of Labour what consultations he has had with employers on the recognition of trade unions.

None centrally; but the services of my industrial relations officers are available locally in particular cases of difficulty.

Is the Minister aware that certain firms in receipt of Government contracts, such as Pitchmastic Quarries Limited, which is an establishment in my constituency, steadfastly refuse not only to grant negotiating rights to trade unions but even to discuss the matter under the auspices of his Ministry? Will he seek to strengthen the fair wages resolution in order to deal with this problem?

Yes, indeed, I am aware of the obstructionist attitude of many employers. I would point out that I have no ultimate power in this matter to secure recognition, but in the 18 months ending in September there were 179 cases of non-recognition brought to the attention of my conciliation officers and we were able to get at least 53 per cent. of them settled in a manner in which the employers recognised the unions. I agree that there is a long way to go, and I repeat the appeal which I have made before that management ought to be very careful indeed before it adopts this attitude.