asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs what plans Her Majesty's Government have for establishing resident British diplomatic representation at Male.

None, Sir.

In view of the existence of the air staging post on Gan Island, is it not likely that questions will arise between the British Government and the Maldivian Government which could be more effectively dealt with by a resident representative rather than, as at present, by a representative 300 miles away in Ceylon?

We are finding that all questions can be perfectly well dealt with through the Maldivian Ambassador in Colombo. It is a perfectly normal practice that there should not be a resident representative there, indeed the only one in Male is the representative of the Formosan Government.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs what consultations are taking place with Commonwealth countries in view of Great Britain's proposal to join the European Economic Community.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs when he intends to visit the Commonwealth countries mainly concerned about the possibility of Great Britain's entry into the European Economic Community, particularly New Zealand.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs what conversations he has had recently with the Governments of India, Canada, Australia and New Zealand on the effect on their trade with the United Kingdom in the event of British entry into the European Economic Community.

As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister made clear in his statement on 10th November, we intend to maintain the closest consultation with Commonwealth Governments throughout. I am hoping to visit a number of Commonwealth countries in the ordinary course next year, and I will, naturally, take the opportunity of discussing this and other matters with Ministers in the countries that I visit.

Would the Commonwealth Secretary not agree that it is most important that the Commonwealth countries should not be left high and dry, as they were when Common Market negotiations last took place? Could the Commonwealth Secretary tell the House what has been the reaction, particularly of Australia and New Zealand, to our present desire to join the European Economic Community?

I can assure my hon. Friend that there is no intention of leaving the Commonwealth countries high and dry. At this probing stage with the E.F.T.A. countries, it is too soon to give any real information to Commonwealth countries. We are well aware of their interest, and we will keep in touch with them throughout.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not feel that he should have special discussions with the Commonwealth Governments mainly concerned, particularly New Zealand, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Streatham (Mr. Sandys) did when he was Secretary of State for a comparable period? Should not these talks be a complementary exercise to those which his colleagues are now undertaking with European Governments?

This may well be the position a little later on, when the probing talks with the E.F.T.A. countries have taken place. It is a little too soon at this stage. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the Commonwealth countries are being kept in touch throughout.

Surely my right hon. Friend will realise that it is quite impossible for his colleagues to engage in conversations with people on the Continent, Foreign Ministers and the like, on the subject of entry into the Common Market without knowing, precisely and explicitly, what the older Commonwealth countries have to say about the effect of Britain's entry into the E.E.C. on their trading relations? Surely this is very important? Does my right hon. Friend understand that some of us think that we have been left in the dark about this matter and that we do not like it?

As to the last point, there is very little that can yet be said. I can assure my right hon. Friend that when we can firmly say something to the Commonwealth countries we will certainly do so. At this stage, this is a purely probing exercise. If later on, next year, detailed consultations are necessary, we shall conduct them.

Surely at the end of the probing exercise it will be necessary to have direct consultations between the Commonwealth Prime Ministers?

Yes, we are very well aware of that.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs if he is aware that the new coins issued by the illegal Rhodesian Government of Ian Smith to commemorate the unilateral declaration of independence are on public display at Rhodesia House; and if he will make a statement on the status and authority of the Smith régime at Rhodesia House.

Yes. The residual staff at Rhodesia House have been allowed to remain in order to look after the interests of Rhodesian citizens in this country.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the apparent toleration of a base in this country for the dissemination of propaganda and the display of emblems or any other activities on behalf of the Smith régime ought to be brought to a speedy end?

I think that it should be clearly understood that the residual Rhodesian staff are in no sense the diplomatic representatives of the illegal régime. As my hon. Friend is probably aware, we have a residual mission in Salisbury, catering for British citizens there.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement regarding sanctions against Rhodesia.

Hon. Members will be aware that, since my statement in the House on 7th December, Her Majesty's Government have tabled a resolution in the Security Council calling for selective mandatory economic sanctions against Rhodesia.

I welcome my right hon. Friend's statement, but would he not agree that, if sanctions are to be effective, they must be as wide as possible and that ineffective sanctions damage our economy while not contributing at all to the solution of the Rhodesian problem?

This position was covered very thoroughly in the debate last week. The important thing is that the sanctions, of course, should be effective. This is in our minds at present when the discussions are going on in New York.

Would the right hon. Gentleman say how oil can be prevented from reaching Rhodesia? Will the Government be sincere and tell the House exactly what will happen, instead of hedging, saying that this or that matter is being considered, at the United Nations?

The position was made clear last week. If an appropriate amendment is tabled to our Resolution on selective mandatory sanctions which will give us what we believe to be essential in regard to oil, we would accept it.

Can my right hon. Friend help us in this? If a good offer, which was thought to have possibilities, came from the Smith régime, what would be the attitude of Her Majesty's Government towards it? Would they feel inhibited in doing anything about it?

The Question dealt with selective mandatory sanctions and the position at the moment in the United Nations. Anything else in this respect is hypothetical at the moment.

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that, as in the statement of the Government themselves Rhodesia is not a sovereign State, what is taking place in the United Nations is illegal? Alternatively, would he accept that if there is one illegal authority in Salisbury, it is a melancholy fact that the British Government are engaging in illegal activities in New York?

I accept, of course, that there is an illegal Government in Rhodesia, but it is for the United Nations to decide whether any action which it takes is illegal or not.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a further statement on the Rhodesian situation.

I have nothing to add to the speech I made in the House of Commons on 7th December and to the words of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on 5th and 8th December.

Has the right hon. Gentleman received any further communications from Salisbury? Would he agree that now the Government have been forced to include oil in their mandatory sanctions they are already losing control at the United Nations?

:On the second point, I do not accept that we have been forced to accept oil. It was made clear that we would accept an amendment if it was in the right terms. On the first part, we have received no representations from the illegal régime. We have been in touch, of course, with Her Majesty's Governor.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that statement, but would he tell the House when he expects the United Nations Resolution to be passed and implemented?

It is difficult to forecast exactly the number of days, but I think within a very few days now.

Would the right hon. Gentleman make it plain that the British Government do not regard the use of the veto in the Security Council as likely as, apparently, do some hon. Members of the Official Opposition?

I think that we should await developments.

Is it not now the position that there will be no independence granted to Rhodesia before majority rule? If that is the case, is it the Government's intention to introduce majority rule as soon as possible?

It was made clear in the Commonwealth Prime Ministers' Communiqué, paragraph 10(a) and (b), that if the selective mandatory sanctions Resolution goes through and is supported by our Commonwealth colleagues the rest will follow.

Following the talks on the gunboat "Tiger", when the Secretary of State came face to face for the second time with Mr. Smith, does he accept that Mr. Smith is a pawn in the hands of people in Salisbury? Does he think that, whatever acceptance Mr. Smith may make of any terms we suggest to him, people like Boss Lilford and Colonel Knox will negative this, veto Mr. Smith and put someone else in his place?

This is a matter for my hon. Friend himself to decide, in his own view, the reason for the actions which Mr. Smith has taken. We probably all have our own views.

The right hon. Gentleman said in answer to an earlier supplementary question that he expected implementation in a few days. Does not implementation involve domestic legislation to enforce these measures by the various member countries? Is that not likely to be a lengthy and, indeed, uncharted course?

Some countries need domestic legislation to implement the decisions of the United Nations; I do not think that this is true in all cases.

With regard to the supply of oil to Rhodesia from Portuguese Africa, would my right hon. Friend not take diplomatic action about the oil companies at present supplying this oil?

My hon. Friend should await the outcome of the Resolution now before the United Nations.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs if he is aware that British-made military equipment is being sold to the illegal régime in Rhodesia by Australia; and what action he proposes to take in the matter.

No military equipment, British-made or other, has been or is being sold to the illegal régime by Australia or, as far as I am aware, from any source in Australia.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that that Answer will give considerable gratification at least to us on this side? Has my right hon. Friend sought assurances on this point from the Australian Government and the United States Government, because the information which has reached me is that that equipment is going to Rhodesia?

I am aware of these rumours, which have been investigated. We have been in close touch with the Australian Government, and I can assure my hon. Friend that there is nothing in the rumour.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs under what regulation Mrs. R. M. Y. Dawson, of Umtali, Rhodesia, is being deprived of moneys bequeathed to her by her uncle in 1939; and how long he proposes she shall be thus deprived.

Under the Exchange Control Act, 1947, all payments to non-residents require the permission of the Treasury. Such permission is not given in respect of income due to residents of Rhodesia from trusts and Settlements in this country. This income must be withheld and is not available to the beneficiary. As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has made clear, this restriction along with the other measures we have taken against Rhodesia will be lifted as soon as there has been a return to constitutional government.

Apart from the inhumanity of depriving an elderly lady, with no responsibility for these matters, of her income, would the hon. Lady not also accept that the experience of the last 12 months has shown that all that will happen is that Mr. Smith will be provided with another supporter?

The hon. Gentleman will know that, in cases of genuine hardship, the Treasury and the Bank of England are prepared to make exceptions. The trouble in this case is that no genuine hardship has yet been established. As to the hon. Gentleman's conclusions, I cannot agree.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs what steps he is taking to maintain contact with the authorities in Rhodesia; and whether he has any new plan for the solution of the present constitutional difficulties.

As the House will know, the Governor, Sir Humphrey Gibbs, is in Salisbury and if there are people in Rhodesia who wish to make their views known to the British Government, they know how this can be done. As to the second part of the Question, I have nothing to add to what was said by Her Majesty's Government in the debate last week.

Will the right hon. Gentleman not shut the door to negotiations? Having got so far towards a settlement, will he now make one further effort on the basis of the agreed constitution?

I must remind the hon. Gentleman that the "Tiger" agreement was accepted by Her Majesty's Government. We did not shut the door.

Would my right hon. Friend bear in mind that any constitutional settlement arrived at in Rhodesia would be superior to the one that has been achieved in Northern Ireland?

What advice, if any, have Her Majesty's Government been giving to officers and other ranks of the Forces of the Crown in Rhodesia?

I would like notice of that question. In any case, I think that the position hardly arises; at least, there is no difference in the position at present.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs when he intends to visit any Commonwealth countries.

I am particularly anxious to visit as many Commonwealth countries as possible. I certainly hope to visit a number during the coming year, but I have no firm plans at the moment, except for a visit to Malta some time after Christmas.

Because of the right hon. Gentleman's priority preoccupation with Rhodesia, which I fully understand, of course, he has not yet had an opportunity to visit any other country. As comprehensive a tour as possible of the member countries concerned is long overdue. Could this be arranged soon, possibly even some time during the Christmas Recess?

I have already said that I am going to Malta during the Christmas Recess. There is some urgency about this. We are working out plans for visits in the New Year.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs on what date he received from the Zambian Government an expression of gratitude in respect of the 3½ million gallons of fuel taken into Zambia by the Royal Air Force.

29th October.

Is it not a fact that the official Zambian spokesman said that R.A.F. planes have brought in relatively little fuel at great expense? Would she accept that?

On 29th October, we had a communication from the High Commission in Lusaka, from the appropriate Ministry in Zambia, saying:

"The Ministry request the High Commission to express the gratitude of the Government of the Republic of Zambia to the Government of the United Kingdom for the support given in connection with P.O.L. supplies through this period."

Would my hon. Friend give an assurance that if a request for a further airlift came from Zambia the Government would accede to it?

I think my hon. Friend will know that the offer of £13·85 million, which at present is still being considered by the Republic of Zambia, would include, should it be needed, money to support a further airlift.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on the effect of the Rhodesian unilateral declaration of independence on Zambia and in so far as it affects the degree of assistance afforded by Great Britain to Zambia.

Until last year Zambia depended directly on Rhodesia for about a third of her imports, while routes through Rhodesia carried over 90 per cent. of her import and export trade. The illegal declaration of independence therefore posed special problems for the Zambian economy. In these circumstances Her Majesty's Government have made substantial contingency assistance available to Zambia to enable her to develop alternative routes and sources of supply and to participate in sanctions against Rhodesia. Details of this assistance were given in my reply to the hon. Member for Woolwich, West (Mr. Hamling) on 24th November—[Vol. 736, c. 353]—to which I have nothing to add.

Is it not correct that Zambians refer to aid as "compensation" for the act of U.D.I.? Is it not a fact that this demand for aid or compensation will increase under mandatory sanctions? What is the final bill likely to be?

I have always been very careful in the House to use not the word "aid" but the word "assistance", which is the correct one in this regard. Her Majesty's Government are concerned about Zambia's non-racial society, about the effectiveness of sanctions to end the illegal régime, about the 44,000 British nationals in Zambia and about supplies of copper to this country.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs what communication he has received from the President of Zambia about the modification of the Barotseland Agreement 1964.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs what official representation the President of Zambia has made to him concerning the amendment of the Barotseland Agreement of 1964.

None, Sir.

Is this not very strange, since President Kaunda undertook at Lancaster House to reconfirm, after independence, this agreement which was confirmed in the Independence Act? Since the Barotse National Council has now been dissolved without the consent of that Council or the Litunga, is not the honour of Her Majesty's Government —bearing in mind the signature of the Secretary of State's predecessor on the agreement—involved, as well as that of President Kaunda?

No, I could not agree with the hon. Gentleman. All is now perfectly calm in Barotseland. Since Zambia became independent, these matters have become essentially the internal affairs of a sovereign State.

Did not President Kaunda undertake, on Zambia's becoming independent, to reconfirm the independence of Barotseland? Instead, has he not made it a local Government province of Zambia? And are these the people who talk about moral principles in Rhodesia?

There are clearly many views on the kind and nature of moral principles involved in these issues at present. However, on this particular matter, it is clear that once a country becomes independent these matters become issues for its own internal decision.

On a point of order. In view of the cynically unsatisfactory nature—

Order. There is no need for the hon. Member to add words to the conventional phraseology.

Further to that point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs why the British Council has not provided a reading room for the city of Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh, India, in view of its size and importance.

The British Council already has four libraries and seven branch libraries operating in India. It will continue to keep the strong claims of Hyderabad in mind when further funds are available.

I welcome that reply. Is my hon. Friend aware that not only the Americans but the French and the Germans have reading rooms in Hyderabad, that English is the lingua franca of South India, that Hyderabad has a population of 2 million and, as she has stressed, its claim for a reading room is extremely strong?

I am aware of this. There are already three towns in this part of South India where British Council libraries are operating. We will consider this very sympathetically as soon as we can.

asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Affairs whether he has now completed his consideration of the report from the High Commission regarding the future of the Kenya Settlers' Compassionate Fund Trust; and whether he will make a statement.

It has been found necessary to refer some details on the future of the fund trust to the trustees in Nairobi. We have made an offer that it should continue on a revolving basis within the overall limit of £300,000 for a further period.

I welcome the last part of what the hon. Lady said. May we take it, then, that the door is not closed to the possibility of a continuance of this fund, if necessary, by a further contribution from Her Majesty's Government, if there are still deserving cases outstanding which cannot be met out of the revolving element?

I should make it clear that the initial capital was supplied to the fund on a once-for-all basis, but, within that context, we are concerned to work out a solution which will provide something more for the deserving cases who remain in Kenya, and to assist those who return home.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will make a statement on the latest position on the frontier point between Gibraltar and Spain at La Linea.

There has been no further change in the situation at the frontier since the Spanish authorities downgraded the La Linea customs post on 25th October.

Would it be right to assume that no news is good news? Is it just as easy for Spanish subjects to cross the frontier to work in Gibraltar as it was, or is that getting more difficult?

Spanish people are still crossing into Gibraltar. The Governor, Chief Minister and his Deputy are in London, at my invitation, discussing the present position.

When does the right hon. Gentleman expect a reply from the Spanish Government on this and other points which have been referred to the International Court of Justice?

The position is that we are still awaiting a reply from the Spanish Government. Up to now they have not given a reply to our suggestion that the matter go to the International Court.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies when Her Majesty's Government are to begin paying the Mauritius Government for the future use of the proposed base upon the island of Diego Garcia; and whether any terms are attached.

The agreed compensation of £3 million for the transfer of the Chagos Archipelago, which includes Diego Garcia to the British Indian Ocean Territory, for possible defence use, was paid in full to Mauritius last March. No conditions were made as to the uses to which the money should be put.

Is my hon. Friend aware that his firm and clear Answer will give satisfaction in Mauritius? Is he aware that a smear campaign is being waged by the opposition party in Mauritius, which is semi-fascist, against the Coalition Labour Government? Will he give a guarantee on this matter and instruct the Acting Governor to take action against these hooligans who are disrupting public meetings in the island?

That is another question. I hope that my original Answer will help to allay any anxiety that may exist in Mauritius.

If money has been paid for Diego Garcia, why did the Secretary of State for Defence say to me the other day that no costs have been incurred in respect of this absolutely useless island?

That question should be addressed to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will make a statement on his most recent visit to the Far East, giving details of who accompanied him, the countries visited, the total costs involved, the period of the visit and dates; why this visit was made; and why the activities which he has now carried out could not have been carried out during the period of 29th July to 3rd September, 1966, when he was last on a visit to these countries.

I visited Hong Kong from 29th November to 6th December, accompanied by three officials from my own Department and a representative each from the Treasury and the Ministry of Defence. The total costs were £3,860 approximately. I went to conclude discussions on the Hong Kong defence contribution which were started on my earlier visit. We reached an understanding, and I will make a statement as soon as possible.

Could my right hon. Friend explain why on his previous visit the cost was £6,000 when he had fewer officials with him, whereas his last visit cost about £1,500 for himself? Will he say how much was expended on himself and how much on the officials? Did he need all those officials?

If my hon. Friend, who has a thirst for knowledge on these matters, will put down a Question to that effect, I will try to answer it.

Is it a fact that the purpose of my right hon. Friend's visit to Hong Kong was to get the Governor to maintain an army there which he does not want to have in order to maintain in Hong Kong conditions about which we are rightly protesting in Rhodesia?

No, Sir.

While not wishing to interfere in this domestic controversy, would the right hon. Gentleman say when he will be able to make his rather more important statement on Hong Kong?

I am hoping to do so before the House rises for the Christmas Recess. There is some doubt, but I will try hard to make my statement before then.

Why has it taken the right hon. Gentleman so long to make his statement? Is he aware that some of my hon. Friends and I had Questions to him on this issue but have delayed them until next Tuesday? Is he saying that he will be unable to make this important statement next Tuesday?

I did not say that I would not be able to make it. I said that I would try very hard indeed to do so.

asked the Minister of Power if he will state the estimated value of output of North Sea gas in 1970 expressed in units of tons of coal, and as a percentage of our fuel needs in that year.

No precise estimates are possible, but I expect that output of North Sea gas in 1970 will average at least 1,000 million cubic feet a day. This is equivalent in heat value to about 13 million tons of coal a year, and would represent under 5 per cent. of our total estimated energy requirements in 1970.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the public look upon these massive gas supplies for the future as a national asset, just as they looked upon coal in the past? Will he take steps to prevent international oil companies from holding up supplies by demanding as much as 4d. a therm from the Gas Council?

There is no question of anyone holding up supplies. The price is a matter for negotiation between the Gas Council and the North Sea operators.

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that the delay in settling the price is now beginning to hold back this development, and is not this a serious matter?

No, Sir. There are no grounds whatever for that statement.

Will my hon. Friend assure the House that if these volumes of gas are produced by 1970 there will be no undue protection of the coal industry?

The whole question of the use of North Sea gas and the Government's policy in relation to other fuel industries is being examined by my right hon. Friend in the Fuel Policy Review, the conclusions of which should be available in the early part of next year.

Will my hon. Friend consider taking powers for the establishment of factories in the development areas to allow the gas boards to produce conversion kits, many of which will be required?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that suggestion. I assure him that we will look into what can be done in that respect.

Would the hon. Gentleman not agree that an enormous amount of capital is necessary to develop these resources in the North Sea? Will he give an undertaking that the Government will neither do nor say anything which might upset the confidence of the great companies which are putting such large amounts of money into this development?

The Government have done nothing and have said nothing to upset anyone's confidence in this respect.

asked the Minister of Power if he will give details of any contracts for research which his Department has placed with universities or colleges of advanced technology, and of the value of such contracts.

The number of current contracts is 10, with a total value of about £53,000 over the periods of the contracts, which vary from one and a half to five years. With permission, I will circulate the details in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Am I right in assuming that this is basically "safety in mines" cost and does it include the contracts of the nationalised industries?

The details of the contracts will be given in the OFFICIAL REPORT. They do not include contracts placed by the nationalised industries, which last year alone totalled 138, with a total expenditure of about £250,000.

asked the Minister of Power what is the estimated total capacity of the steel industry in 1967; and what percentage of this capacity is likely to be fully employed.

Thirty-one million tons. The Iron and Steel Board estimate that not much more than 70 per cent. of capacity will be employed, on average, in 1967.

Would my hon. Friend agree that it is essential for the economic health of this country that the steel industry should work at a much higher capacity than it is likely to do in 1967, and will he make this point clear to the Chancellor of the Exchequer?

As my hon. Friend knows, it is highly desirable that all our industries should work as near to full capacity as possible. However, the deficient home demand for steel is now being aggravated by a recession in stock holding and also by a high level of imports. My right hon. Friend is looking into both of these matters.

How much of this 30 per cent, unused capacity in the steel industry is due to the credit squeeze and the actions of the Government during the summer?

I clearly could not give an answer to that question without notice. A substantial proportion of this 30 per cent. is in respect of ageing and, perhaps, obsolete capacity, which might well not be considered within the total of 100 per cent.

How does the 30 per cent. unused capacity compare with what was suggested in the National Plan?

The National Plan related to 1970 and contained no information about 1967.

Would my hon. Friend make it clear that the credit squeeze is not unduly responsible for this state of affairs? Is he further aware that the right hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale (Mr. Barber) knows full well that the steel industry was working at only 65 per cent. to 70 per cent.—at the most at 75 per cent. at any time—of capacity in Sheffield and Rotherham?

As my hon. Friend points out, the history of the steel industry has been one of cycles of production which the present Government are doing a great deal to remove upstairs in Committee.

asked the Minister of Power if he is aware that the Scottish Gas Board is now charging 1s. 6d. per month to customers paying their accounts by coupon book, although no such charge is made to those paying by banker's order; and if he will issue a general direction to the Board to remove this charge.

My right hon. Friend is aware of the charge which is a matter for the Board. A general direction would not be appropriate.

Is my hon. Friend aware that this charge falls on those least able to bear it, namely, those who cannot afford to have bank accounts? If the Board wants to raise extra revenue, this is a most unfair way to do it.

As my hon. Friend knows, there is a number of payment systems to assist precisely the kind of person he has in mind to make it easier for him to pay his accounts. Whenever anybody accepts this method of payment, or payment by pre-payment meter, or anything like this, he is fully aware that the cost of collection is greater and therefore the charge is greater. But it is still more convenient for people and they choose to do it in this way.

As the scheme is designed specifically for poor people with limited means to pay for gas in Scotland, the cost of which is about 15 per cent. above the cost in the rest of the country, is it not outrageous to ask these people to pay about £1 a year extra for the privilege of paying their bills monthly in advance?

No. It is a matter of free choice on the part of individuals concerned. They are well able to choose between the different methods of payment, such as the coupon method. It is the Government's policy to make sure that the charges of the nationalised industries are related to the costs incurred in giving these services.