asked the Secretary of State for Wales where the Welsh Economic Council will give their views on the future of the Barmouth to Ruabon railway line.

The Welsh Council has now given my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport its views on the question put to it about the disposal of the formation and assets between Llangollen and Morfa Mawddach.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there has been considerable delay in giving these views, that British Railways has been awaiting the views of the Ministry of Transport, that the Ministry has been awaiting the views of the Welsh Economic Council and that the plans of local authorities have been held up for a long time, because of the uncertainty about this railway line?

My hon. Friend ought to feel all the more pleased that the Answer has now been given.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how he intends to proceed in placing the contracts for the extension of the Cardiff-Merthyr road programmed for 1967.

Selected firms will be invited to tender for the first stage of the work, between Tongwynlais and Nantgarw.

Perhaps one could say that that is short, though not unduly sweet. Would my hon. Friend use his best endeavours to guard against a lack of urgency in the placing of these contracts? Are there any solid reasons why these contracts should not be placed on a project which was programmed for 1966–67?

At present, there is no reason to believe that the scheme will not proceed as planned, but, of course, the programme depends on the completion of the statutory procedures.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what action he proposes to take to overcome the road transport bottlenecks in the Cynon Valley.

This is a matter initially for the local highway authorities who are responsible for the classified roads in the valley. A comprehensive land use and transportation survey is being planned in Monmouthshire and East Glamorgan which may have a bearing on road proposals in this valley and the Welsh Office is helping with technical advice and finance.

As much of the through traffic from the south to the north is now using the A4059 road from Mountain Ash to Aberdare, would my hon. Friend consider enhancing this road's status?

I am pleased to say that my right hon. Friend is prepared to make this part of the road a principal road from 1st April, 1967.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what action he proposes to take to assess the effects upon industry in Wales in the event of British entry into the Common Market.

The possible implications of membership of the E.E.C. for industry in the United Kingdom, including industry in Wales are under continuous study.

Will the position of industry in Wales be considered during the negotiations of terms for entry of the Common Market?

If, in due course, discussions which the Government are having suggest that conditions exist for fruitful negotiations, all considerations will be kept in mind and carefully weighed.

Could not the Welsh Economic Council study this problem and, possibly, publish something on it? Professor Edward Nevin published a book on Wales in the Common Market two or three years ago, and it would be helpful if that kind of thing were published again, this time by the Economic Council.

If, at the appropriate time, I consider that any matter should be referred to the Economic Council, I shall do so.

Is not a more important question what will be the effect on Welsh industry if we do not enter the E.E.C.?

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if the Welsh Economic Council has yet considered the Welsh Economic Development Plan which is to be published early next year.

Consultations with the Welsh Economic Council have so far been on parts of the material to be included in the White Paper on Wales. A complete draft of the White Paper will be seen by the Council as soon as it is ready.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that reply, but does he realise what a disgraceful situation exists now, 26 months after Labour came to power, which suggests that the Welsh Economic Council is not taken seriously by the Government, that planning in Wales is not taken seriously and that the Welsh nation is not taken seriously?

The hon. Gentleman must realise that this Plan deals with the long-term interests of the Welsh people. We are determined that it shall be the best plan possible. There never has been and never will be a Government with a greater interest in Wales.

Would the hon. Gentleman remember that the National Plan was produced in the long-term interests of the British people as a whole? May we be assured that the Welsh Plan, when it comes out, will be a good deal better? Second, how many subjects has the Economic Council before it at present, and why does the Council continue to work in an air of mystery?

It is very hard to please the hon. Gentleman. On his first question, the Plan for Wales will fit into the National Plan and will be in the best interests of the Welsh people. Second, the Economic Council's current work is another question, but it is engaged on real and important relevant issues.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will now give a date for the introduction of legislation which will incorporate the principle of equal legal validity of the Welsh and English languages.

I have nothing to add to the Answer my right hon. Friend gave to a similar Question from the hon. Member on 3rd November.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the frustration felt in Wales at this protracted inaction of the Government, that this is only one of the estimated two thousand official forms published in Welsh and that it has been possible for Mr. Justice Widgery, in the meantime, to compare the status of the Welsh language in the courts of Wales with that of Polish in the Central Criminal Court here?

The legal and other difficulties concerning this legislation were fully explained in the Welsh Grand Committee, when it discussed the Report. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that my right hon. Friend is equally anxious to make progress in this matter, and a great deal of work has been done. In the meantime, it is not too much to ask those who care for the Welsh language to exercise a little more patience. I would appeal also to those people making unjustified and deplorable attacks on my right hon. Friend to cease doing so.

Is my hon. Friend aware that, in the scale of priorities for legislation, many people in Wales would like to see the leasehold reform Bill given priority to this kind of thing?

We are fully aware of the need for exercising priorities in this matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he will report on the planning implications of the schools survey announced by the Minister of State for Welsh Affairs.

As I told the Welsh Grand Committee, where the results of the survey demonstrate a need to replace an existing school in a potentially dangerous location by a new school and planning problems arise that cannot be resolved by the Local Planning Authorities, appropriate action will be taken.

I would commend this action to allay any anxiety which there may be. How many schools have been so surveyed, how many have received a bad report and what schools, if any, have been closed as a result?

The education authorities in Wales were asked to survey their areas. An analysis of the results so far has led to the temporary closure of two schools—Alitwen Infants School, Pontardawe, and Graig Ddu Infants School, Dinas Rhondda—and the final results of the survey are still being studied.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what were the numbers in the Welsh Office in Cardiff and London, respectively, in November. 1964, and November, 1966.

At the end of November, 1964, there were 225 in post in Cardiff. These were officials of the Welsh Office of the Ministry of Housing and Local Government which was the first to be absorbed in the new Welsh Office. Subsequently additional functions including roads, information and publicity, certain functions of the Ministry of Public Building and Works and the Forestry Commission were taken over with the relevant staffs. The total figures at the end of last month were 451 in posit in Cardiff and 27 in London.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what representations he has received about the effect of the Selective Employment Tax on the employment of the old and the handicapped in North Wales.

None, Sir.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that the Medical Officer of Health for the Flintshire County Council has made representations to the Welsh Board of Health about the loss of work of handicapped men and women in Flint-shire, because of the Selective Employment Tax? If there is to be a Selective Employment Tax, would it not be much better to give privilege to the old, the disabled and the handicapped rather than the other way round, as it now works?

I read reports in the Press on the views of the Medical Officer of Health for Flintshire that representations are to be made to the Welsh Board of Health. My Office will be in touch with the Board about these reports and with the Ministry of Labour, which is paying particular attention to the effects of S.E.T. on employment prospects. Any firm evidence will be considered by the Welsh Economic Council and a report made to me as soon as possible.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is not only the Medical Officer of Health for Flint who is concerned about this matter? This has been raised by various hon. Members and by people outside. As it is now a long time since the Budget, may we not have the report from the right hon. Gentleman's Office, which we know the Welsh Economic Council is considering upon this matter?

As the hon. Member must know by now, the reports of the Welsh Economic Council and of any other Economic Council in the United Kingdom are not published. I would ask him to bear this in mind. These councils report, in the case of Wales, to me, in the case of Scotland, to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland and, in the case of the English Economic Councils, to the First Secretary of State.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he is satisfied with the dissemination of scientific information obtained from his Department's space activities for potential industrial users; and if he will make a statement.

Industry has accesss to this information through scientific journals, reports of United Kingdom organisations, the Department's National Lending Library for Science and Technology, and the Ministry of Aviation's Technical Information Service. In addition the Scientific and Technical reports issued by the European Space Research Organisation, as well as those published by the U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration, are available through the ESRO/ELDO documentation service. Moreover, my right hon. Friend the Minister of Technology is actively engaged in ensuring that industry gets the fullest advantages from knowledge derived from space activities.

In both parts of that Answer, the Minister of State said that the information is available. The purpose of the Question was to know whether the Ministry takes positive action to use this scientific knowledge and push it out to industry. The purpose of such knowledge is that it should be applied to the benefit of the whole country. The Question related to whether it is being pushed out to industry.

I am sure that this is so. Detailed scientific reports on the activities of space research groups in universities, Government research establishments and other establishments are published in annual reports issued constantly by the S.R.C. and the Royal Society. We watch the position carefully and anything which we can do to disseminate knowledge, as well as to cause it to be assembled, we do.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will amend his regulations so that graduate teachers are paid graduate additions to salary whatever their age.

Any change in the provision which governs this matter is for consideration by the Burnham Committee in the first place.

Does the Minister think it right that graduate teachers, having accepted the offer of posts at an advertised salary, should receive the nasty shock upon receiving their first salary cheques of finding that they have not been given the promised salary? Would he not agree that if graduate teachers are thought to be inferior, because of their age, they should be told that they are not eligible for the proper salary?

I am conscious of the point to which the hon. Lady draws attention, but it would be improper for me to comment on it in detail at the moment, in as much as it is a matter which is negotiable between the parties on the Burnham Committee.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will publish some time in 1967 a progress-chasing analysis of the Robbins Report, giving details of his present policy towards its recommendations.

I have given figures in recent weeks showing that the Robbins targets for student entry in September 1966 have been exceeded both for higher education as a whole and for each individual sector. I shall keep the House regularly informed of future progress.

That is all right as far as it goes, but what serious follow-up has been done on the 170 or so lesser recommendations of the Robbins Report on residents' wastage and other related topics? In particular, can he say what machinery exists in his Department to deal with the vital appendices to the Robbins Report?

To answer the first part of my lion. Friend's supplementary, many of the 170 recommendations were addressed directly to universities and not to the Government. Of those addressed to the Government, a very high proportion have been carried out; and I would be happy to give my hon. Friend the details. To answer the second part—on what is sometimes referred to in the House as "keeping Robbins un to date"—I forecast in July, and shall be announcing the details today, that we would be setting up in the Department a long-term planning branch, one of whose objects would be precisely this matter.

Would the right hon. Gentleman give the House an assurance that university targets and grants after 1967–68 will reflect the fact that a larger proportion of the university age group is becoming qualified for university entry than the Robbins Committee expected?

I can certainly give that assurance. However, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, the other side of the picture is that the size of the 18 year old age group is, for the moment, static and will fall by 25 per cent. over the next few years.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what measures he is taking to encourage pupils to study engineering, either while they are still at school or subsequent to their leaving school.

An inter-departmental Working Party on which the Department is represented has, among other activities, arranged for the preparation of films and exhibitions and the publication of a booklet and a magazine, both widely distributed to schools. The Schools Council is studying ways of ensuring that the curriculum gives pupils a sense of the importance of technology and develops their practical and creative ability.

When does my hon. Friend expect the results of this study?

I am not able to give a precise date when the Schools Council study will be completed, but if my hon. Friend will keep in touch with me on the subject, I will be happy to give him any further information that becomes available.

Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied with the numbers studying engineering? Will he undertake to ensure that there is better and greater contact between the engineering world and the schools?

I am well satisfied that there is increasing contact. Indeed, its importance is widely recognised and we are anxious to encourage it.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he is aware that students are finding it difficult to obtain technical experience in industry by reason of the unwillingness of employers to take on student labour now that they have to pay Selective Employment Tax; and what action he proposes to take.

No such case has been brought to my notice.

While the particular case which gave rise to this Question has been satisfactorily dealt with, will the Minister look into the cases of those who are doing sandwich courses at technical colleges for what the Government are pleased to call "non-productive indusitries", and particularly those doing courses for the catering trade, as I believe that he will find that there are great difficulties in this connection?

My right hon. Friend will be very ready to look into this matter in the light of any evidence that comes forward.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what consultations he has had with, and what advice he has given to, local education authorities about the shortening of primary school hours for the youngest children.

None, Sir.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware, as I am aware, of five-year old children for whom the full school day is extremely long and for whom, in some cases, it causes nervousness as well as physical exhaustion? Is it not possible for primary school staff to have the same latitude as is enjoyed by the staff of private schools?

Some latitude is already granted in respect of children under eight years of age, and that occurs under Regulation 10(1) of the 1959 School Regulations. The hon. Gentleman is right in saying that this subject has aroused a great deal of public discussion recently; but I would prefer not to make any suggestion relating to a new policy until we know, which we shall in the middle of January, whether—and, if so, what—the Plowden Committee has anything to say about the matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will take the necessary steps to change that section of the constitution of the Welsh Joint Education Committee which gives to the Joint Committee the power to determine the nature and distribution of the teachers' representatives, since one of the largest teachers' associations in the Principality is denied membership.

No, Sir. It is for the Welsh Joint Education Committee to approach my right hon. Friend if it thinks that changes in its constitution have become desirable. I understand that it has this whole question of teacher representation on the Joint Committee under review.

Does not my hon. Friend realise that this matter has been under study for a considerable time and that the N.A.S. has been extremely patient during this period? Does he not recognise that so long as this body, which represents more than 10 per cent. of the teacher population of Wales, is excluded from the W.J.E.C., the W.J.E.C. cannot be representative in the terms of its constitution?

This is essentially a matter for the Joint Committee and its constituent authorities. My right hon. Friend thinks that it is best to leave it to the Joint Committee to decide this issue in the light of all the circumstances—to decide whether and, if so when, to approach him for a varying Order.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will undertake a survey of the income qualifications current among various local education authorities for free school meals and for clothing grants.

Since 1964, local education authorities in England and Wales have operated a uniform scale of income qualifications for free school meals, which my right hon. Friend has approved. The income qualifications for clothing grants are properly a matter for the discretion of local authorities.

While respecting the right of local authorities to make their own decisions, would they not find it helpful if they were given some guidance on this subject? Would my hon. Friend not agree that at the moment, at least in respect of the clothing grant, the provision available for a child depends not on its needs but on the accident of where it happens to live?

I am not aware of any general dissatisfaction with the clothing grant arrangements which would warrant the survey suggested by my hon. Friend's Question. The grant made by authorities in respect of the cost of school uniforms, for example, means that while it is not usually large, about £10 for initial outfits, in respect of other hardship cases for other forms of clothing, there are provisions made and the scales used for this purpose are comparable with those for free school meals.

Is the Minister satisfied that the present regulations achieve a correct balance between the needs of the smaller and larger families?

It is fair that I should say that the associations of local authorities are at present being consulted on a proposed increase for the qualifying income levels, to make them conform with the increase in supplementary benefits announced which took effect on 28th November, and this will more adequately reflect the situation.

Would the hon. Gentleman assure us that no demarcation of any sort will exist in the arrangements for the issue of free meal tickets? In other words, will he ensure that children are not aware of who are and who are not getting free meal tickets?

My experience has been that local authorities are usually extremely careful to avoid any possibility of that happening. This is an anxiety which we all share; and if anything to the contrary is brought to our notice, I assure the hon. Lady that it will receive our urgent attention.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many departmental and local authority staff are at present wholly or mainly employed with the administration of the school meals service; and what is the total annual cost so involved.

Twenty-four of the Department's officers are so employed full-time or part-time, at an estimated annual cost, including overheads, of £57,848. Information on the number of local education authority staff employed is not available but the cost of their administration of the school meals service in 1965/66 was £4,326,000.

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that the cost of school meals and free milk now represents one-quarter of the annual running costs of primary schools? Is not this a field in which there is room for some economy of manpower and public money?

In fact, the cost of administration forms only 5·4 per cent. of the sum total cost of the school meals service.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many suitably qualified candidates applied for Scientific Research Council grants to engage on research and postgraduate studies in the current year; and how many awards were offered.

3,109 suitably qualified candidates applied for S.R.C. studentships to start in October 1966; 2,763 of these were offered awards.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Would he not agree that, in view of the need to extend post-graduate study, the S.R.C. should increase the number of awards for the coming year? If so, to what extent will that be done?

There has been a progressive increase in the number of awards made by the S.R.C. during the last few years, and I have no doubt that it will continue the good work. However, I would remind my hon. Friend that while the S.R.C. is the main awarding body for post-graduate study, it is not the only one. It is responsible for about half of the total awards given for postgraduate study.

What proportion of these candidates came from overseas and will, therefore, after their work, probably leave this country to work overseas?

I could not answer that without prior notice.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what was the estimated number of student places for degree courses in science and technology in the years 1964–65, 1965–66, and 1966–67; and how many places were taken up.

As the reply contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Would my right hon. Friend not agree that a real responsibility in this matter lies on the schools, industry and the Government information services to ensure that as much information as possible about this is given to the youngsters concerned?

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. A considerable responsibility is involved here. The present picture on this front is comparatively favourable, but we cannot be sure that it will continue to remain favourable in the years ahead. This is, therefore, a matter on which the Dainton Committee, among other bodies, was set up to report, and I hope to receive the second report of the Dainton Committee early in the new year.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what steps are being taken to provide a new primary school at Sutton, Macclesfield, bearing in mind that planning permission has been granted for approximately 170 new dwellings in the parish.

My right hon. Friend is now considering whether a new school in Sutton can be approved for the 1968–69 major building programme.

Will the hon. Gentleman come to an early decision on this matter, since the people of Sutton are alarmed at the prospect of the programme being put back? Will he bear in mind the promises made only eight months ago about additional primary schools to be built in Cheshire, a promise which was also made by the Labour candidate who opposed me at the last election?

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will not expect me to enter into election controversies. I assure him that an announcement on this matter will not be long delayed.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science on how many occasions he has refused to sanction the setting up of a Welsh school when the local education committee has been in favour of such a school; and what were the grounds for refusal in each case.

None, Sir.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware of a recent report about a case in North Wales, in Denbighshire, where the Ministry refused to confirm the view of the local education authority that such a school should be established at Coedpoeth? Would he confirm or deny that report?

If the hon. and learned Gentleman is thinking of the proposal for a school at Coedpoeth, in Wrexham I assure him that my Department has not refused the proposal in that case, but has asked the local education authority to consider an alternative possibility.

As one who has had the pleasure of opening one of these schools, at a place which I will not attempt to pronounce, is it not clear that in this, as with primary schools, educational development must be considered to be educationally viable in all cases and that nobody stands to gain from a project which cannot work out sensibly in educational terms?

I am glad to agree with the right hon. Gentleman. I believe that the place which he felt unable to attempt to pronounce is Rhydfelen.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what proposals he has for securing the use of Territorial Army drill halls, when suitable, for purposes of physical recreation.

My hon. Friend has asked regional sports councils to assess the suitability of redundant Territorial Army Centres for use as indoor sports centres. Under the new arrangements announced last October in Circular 57/66 issued by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government, the county and district or borough council will have first option to purchase any such centres which are surplus to Territorial and Army Volunteer Reserve or any other Government requirements.

While expressing my gratitude to my hon. Friend, may I ask him to be good enough to keep me informed about developments in Derby and Derbyshire?

I will most certainly do that.

Whilst I agree that it is a good thing that local authorities should have some sort of option on buildings such as these, will the Minister bear in mind the need to pay attention to the commercial value of the premises so that they can play some part in building up the economic strength we must have to keep going at all?

The hon. Gentleman's point will he duly noted.

Is my hon. Friend aware that when I made a similar inquiry of his Department not long ago as to the possibility of releasing one of these drill halls for recreational purposes, I was informed in the official correspondence from the Department that, provided no other Government Department required it for other purposes, the local authority would be considered after that process had been gone through? Is he aware that this antediluvian process of offering building like this, which are needed by local people for real purposes and not for bureaucratic purposes, is something to which we in Lancashire strongly object?

The reply my hon. Friend received from the Department was in every way consistent with the reply I gave to the original Question. I would not dismiss other Government requirements in this respect in quite the derisive terms my hon. Friend used.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what plans he has in hand for additional building programmes for the provision of comprehensive schools following the response of local authorities to Circular 1065.

I would refer the hon. Member to the Answer I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, North (Mr. Molloy) on 3rd November.—[Vol. 735, c. 641.]

In those circumstances, is it not inevitable that the authorities will put forward botched-up and sham schemes, and if no extra money is available, would it not be better to concentrate on improving existing schools and securing the services of more teachers?

As the hon. Gentleman must know if he has attended Question Time on educational matters or educational debates, the latter part of his supplementary question refers to exactly what we are trying to do. That is where the money is being concentrated As to the first part, it is perfectly true that the existing stock of buildings imposes a limitation on the speed at which schools can go comprehensive, but we have to face the fact that we are suffering from the legacy of the previous Government—[Interruption.]—having approved hundreds, even thousands, of inadequately-sized secondary modern schools.

Will my right hon. Friend appreciate that the point he made in his reply to me was well taken and well understood? Will he acknowledge, further, that there will certainly be no botched-up or sham schemes in the Borough of Ealing, which may very well disappoint the hon. Member for Chelmsford (Mr. St. John-Stevas)?

Will the Secretary of State give an assurance that, whatever plans he may have for secondary schools, he will not divert resources from the primary schools which, in view of the size of the age groups coming along in the next five years, constitute far and away the biggest problem?

The hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well that I must have given this assurance at least 50 times in the last 12 months, but I am quite happy to give it for the 51st time this afternoon. As to approving botched-up schemes, to which his hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Mr. St. John-Stevas) referred, if the hon. Member has read this morning's newspapers, I am sure that he will be completely satisfied that we will not, in any circumstances, approve schemes we do not think satisfactory.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in Stafford, as far as comprehensive schools are concerned, he is himself regarded as the arch botcher?

One of the agreeable features of our educational scene in the last few months has been the fact that the right hon. Gentleman has been in the forefront as one of our most fanatical supporters of comprehensive reorganisation, for which I am extremely grateful.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make a statement about the future plans for the reorganisation of secondary education in Beverley.

A deputation representing the governors of the school will be received by officers of the Department on 19th January. My right hon. Friend cannot make a statement until after he has had an opportunity of considering what the governors have to say at this meeting.

Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that there are strong local feelings that the views of parents, contrary to paragraph 40 of Circular 1065, have not been ascertained in this case, and will his right hon. Friend consider all points of view when coming to a final decision?

According to what my right hon. Friend has made abundantly clear, we are ready to consider all relevant points of view and take them into due consideration.

asked the Secretary of of State for Education and Science it there will be any revision of expected education expenditure for 1969–70 indicated in Command Paper No. 2915 on account of the postponement of the National Plan.

I have nothing to add to my Answer on 3rd November to the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Handsworth (Sir E. Boyle).—[Vol. 735. c. 137–8.]

But quite a while has elapsed since then. Is there not now an opportunity for the right hon. Gentleman to state quite clearly whether or not the figures of educational expenditure con- tained in the White Paper were related to the expectation of the economy contained in the National Plan? If not, will he please make this quite clear?

It was made perfectly clear in the National Plan that the figures contained in it were subject to continuous modification in the light of the development of the economy. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that in the last two years since this Government came to power, educational spending has increased by between 5 per cent. and 6 per cent., and is now taking a larger proportion of the national income than two years ago. Further, I can certainly assure him that this improvement will continue, and that we shall not have the occasional cuts in school building programmes, for example, that we had under the previous Government.

Can the Secretary of State answer this specific question? In the National Plan it was made clear that under the Conservatives expenditure on each child in a primary school had been going up, in real terms, by 5 per cent. a year, and on each child in a secondary school by 10 per cent. a year. Can he say whether the Government's latest proposals for local government finance are consistent with the continuation of that rate of climb in expenditure?

The fact is that at the end of the period of Conservative Government, education was still taking a completely inadequate proportion of the national income. [HON. MEMBERS: "Answer."] I am happy to say, in answer to the right hon. Gentleman, that in the last two years we have further increased that proportion, and have further increased, which is the precise question he asked, the average standards per pupil in both primary and secondary schools.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is the total number of full-time students in Greater London, and the percentage increase in these over the last five years.

About 89,500. This represents an increase of 47 per cent. over the figure for five years earlier.

Whilst welcoming the news of that sweeping increase in the number of students in London, may I ask my hon. Friend to look at their desperate lodging situation? Will he seek to increase also by 47 per cent. the supply of hostel and single-room accommodation?

My right hon. Friend and I share to the full my hon. Friend's concern about this problem. It is not an easy problem, but we continue to do what we can to alleviate the situation.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will review the policy of raising the school-leaving age in 1970–71.

No, Sir.

Despite the right hon. Gentleman's heroic Answer to Question No. 29, is it not quite clear that the failure of the Government's economic policy is bound to put some limitation on the resources available for education? In those circumstances, will he assure the House that there will be an adequate supply of buildings and teachers before he concludes this particular aspect of educational policy?

I can assure the hon. Gentleman—and there is a Question on this subject on the Order Paper—that I still think that his own right hon. Friend, when he announced his decision under the previous Government, was absolutely correct; and that to go back on that decision now would be both educationally and socially disastrous.

Is it not vital for the country's economic future that the policy of raising the school age should be adhered to, and that the age should he raised above 16 at the earliest possible date?

I think that it is completely vital. The country needs more and better educated manpower, and we know from endless reports from Newsom, Crowther and so on, what a desperate waste of talent there is due to early school leaving.

In view of the Minister's earlier Answer, would he accept that I have never, nor have my right hon. Friends, regretted the announcement I made at the end of January, 1964? And would he not agree that the latest figures of regional variation in the numbers of those staying on at school voluntarily further justify that announcement? But is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we are concerned, and public opinion is concerned, that adequate resources should be available? And would he not agree that one should think of this as an extra year of full-time education?

I entirely accept what the right hon. Gentleman has said in the first part of his supplementary question. If I may say so, he has given most valuable support to the decision he took, and which we have confirmed against those fainthearted people in the educational service who would now like to go back on that decision. As to the second part of his supplementary question, there is a Question on the Order Paper on this precise subject.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what progress is being made towards the raising of the school-leaving age; and what work is being done in planning suitable courses for the extra year.

I am making over £100 million available for the necessary buildings between 1968 and 1972 and shall announce the first allocations very shortly. I have already given authorities practical guidance on extending existing schools. I am continuing to develop the teacher supply programme. Progress is being made by teachers in working out new courses with the help of the Schools Council.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that reply. Is he aware that particularly in the planning of the further year's courses there will be a great need to win the imagination of the young people in the schools, some of whom already feel that they have been at school long enough and have, I think he would agree, a laudable ambition to go to work instead to try to help the Government get out of their economic difficulties?

I entirely agree that the question of what is taught and what is studied in the last year is an extraordinary important one, and we must produce a last year's course which is different in character from what is being taught in the rest of the school. That is why the Schools Council, with a great deal of support from the teachers, has given such a high priority to trying to produce more imaginative, more practical, less academic, courses for the last year.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what administrative and clerical assistance he makes available to schools to enable head teachers, in particular, to do more teaching.

This is a matter for local education authorities.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is considerable complaint from head teachers that they have so much administrative and clerical work to do that they have very little time to teach? Cannot he do anything to expedite this sort of practical assistance in the course of their work?

A recent report showed that a total of some 23,000 clerical and secretarial staff were currently employed in maintained schools, three-quarters of them part-time. This is perhaps a larger figure than is commonly realised. We are in favour of schools having adequate non-teaching help of all kinds to serve the purpose the hon. Gentleman has in mind, and the authorities and teachers' associations are currently examining, through a joint working party, the use of non-teaching staff.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many sixth form pupils sat A-level science subjects, including mathematics, and A level arts subjects, including economics, respectively, in July of each of the years 1960 to 1966; and whether his Department has made any estimates of future trends.

This information is not available in the form requested. I shall, however, publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT a table of figures which shows the number of subjects attempted at A-level, analysed by main groups of subjects.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that these figures have serious implications for this country's future scientific manpower? Would the Department be prepared to make a special study of this problem?

This matter will be kept under constant review, but if, after studying the figures which I have promised, my hon. Friend would like to approach me again, I would be very happy to assist.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he is satisfied that there will be an adequate supply of teachers to cope with the increased number of schools arising from the raising of the school-leaving age in 1970–71; and if he will make a statement.

I would refer the hon. Member to my reply of 2nd December to the hon. Member for Oswestry (Mr. Biffen).—[Vol. 737, c. 170.]

Has the right hon. Gentleman taken into his calculations the fact that in this year, as in previous years, two and a half times more women students are entering college than male students?

Yes, I have taken that into the calculations; but the hon. Member will realise that there was also a further increase in the number of male students going into the colleges this year.

Is the Secretary of State aware that in the Answer he gave me he said that 21,000 additional teachers would have to be recruited and that this could not but cause some temporary setbacks? In these circumstances, will he give the House an assurance that the raising of the school-leaving age in 1970–71 will not be bought either at the expense of educational standards or of the morale of the teaching profession?

The hon. Member really must consult his right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Handsworth (Sir E. Boyle). It was the right hon. Gentleman who rightly announced this decision. When he announced it he made it perfectly clear that there must be some temporary setback. Of course there was bound to be. The difference between now and when the announcement was made is that the whole teacher supply position looks better now than it did a few years ago and, therefore, the setback will be considerably less serious.