asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will review the number of outside working parties at smaller gaols like Dorchester; and whether the percentage of prisoners allowed on them is less than 15 years ago.

Outside working parties from all closed prisons have been reviewed. I regret that statistics are not available to enable comparisons to be made with the position 15 years ago.

Will the right hon. Gentleman make the policy on these outside working parties a little clearer? How far is it left to the discretion of the governor, and how far does it depend simply on the availability of outside work, and how much on the needs of prisoners?

It depends on a combination of factors. Outside working parties are most important from the point of view of the economy of prisons. This Question refers only to small prisons. In Dorchester, for example, with a total population of 182, 21 are currently employed outside, but all the factors the hon. Gentleman mentioned are taken into account.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will institute research on the personal and social consequences of the establishment of betting shops.

My right hon. Friend wishes first to await the results of the research into the incidence of gambling, with particular reference to betting offices and casinos, which is being undertaken by the London School of Economics, supported by funds obtained by the Churches' Council on Gambling.

While welcoming the possibility of such research going on, may I ask my hon. and learned Friend whether he would agree that in view of the growing public disquiet on this matter a real investigation might take place at the present time?

There are a number of questions one would like to know the answers to, but I think one should first await the results of this research, which is looking at the profitability of betting offices in relation to the social characteristics of an area and includes a social survey of the incidence in different parts of the country of all kinds of gambling.

Would the hon. and learned Gentleman agree that if the persons inside the betting shops were visible to people outside, such as wives and employers, this would have a beneficial effect on absenteeism? Would he consider planning regulations along those lines?

We can certainly look at the question of glass doors and open windows.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will review existing practices of authorised telephone tapping in non-criminal matters.

I have nothing to add to the statement made by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister in answer to Questions on 17th November last.—[Vol. 736, c. 634–41.]

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the deep disquiet which exists in the country at the ever-increasing amount of telephone tapping, perhaps for political or for divorce reasons? Would he really not agree that it is time telephone tapping ceased in this country once and for all?

No; I do not accept my hon. Friend's premises. I can assure him that the present practice conforms fully with the recommendations of the Committee of Privy Councillors which reported in 1957. I have nothing to say beyond that.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Question does not refer to the kind of practices which were dealt with by the Committee of Privy Councillors but rather with the invasion of privacy by people who are not authorised to be used for telephone tapping? Would he look into that?

I think, with great respect to my hon. Friend, that this Question refers to authorised telephone tapping, though there is on the Paper another Question which refers to unauthorised tapping.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he has completed his study of the implications of unauthorised telephone tapping; and if he will now introduce legislation to make this practice unlawful.

I am keeping a close watch on the position, but I have at present no firm evidence to indicate that legislation would be appropriate.

As the 1957 White Paper clearly suggested that Parliament might wish to consider whether the unauthorised tapping of telephones ought to be made an offence, and as there have been technical advances since then which make tapping easier, and probably more widespread, surely there is a clear-cut case for making unauthorised tapping unlawful?

I think one has to be satisfied that there is a substantial evil, and I think that there may well be, but one also has to be satisfied that legislation could deal with it effectively. I am open to receive representations, and to receive any evidence about the prevalence of the position if the hon. Gentleman wishes to send it to me.

Now that we have reached the proper Question, may I put my supplementary question and ask my right hon. Friend whether he is aware that in a number of recent cases, particularly divorce cases, judges have cast strictures on inquiry agents who have used telephone tapping or bugging devices to collect evidence, and that it is this kind of incident which is on the increase? Would not my right hon. Friend agree that the best way to deal with this matter is to institute a civil action for damages, rather than a criminal prosecution? This might be the better way of dealing with it.

Questions must be brief.

I shall certainly look at that, but I think that it would be strictly outside the scope of the Home Department.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what plans he has to strengthen the Narcotics Division at Scotland Yard.

I have nothing at present to add to the reply which my hon. and learned Friend gave on 24th June to a Question by my hon. Friend, the Member for Wallsend (Mr. Garrett). —[Vol. 730, c. 163–4.]

My right hon. Friend will be aware that there is very deep and increasing concern about the risks which young people are running in connection with drug addiction. Would he consider this to see if it is possible to have social workers attached to the Narcotics Division to work particularly among young people?

I will certainly consider my hon. Friend's suggestion. As she knows, and as the House knows, the squad was increased in strength in March last year, and the Commissioner is anxious to see how this increase in the strength works out. As to the second point, I will look at it.

Would my right hon. Friend agree that in the Metropolitan area many drugs are pushed from purportedly private unlicensed and unregistered clubs, and that it is these uncontrolled outlets which cause great difficulty to the police? Would it not be prudent to increase the strength of the police on this class of work?

I think it may be, but we have made this substantial increase in the strength of about 20 per cent. during the course of 1966. Certainly, neither the Commissioner nor I have a closed mind upon it or regard this as the final figure.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department when he intends to set up a central register for drug addicts.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in order to control the increase in narcotic addiction, he will consider the compulsory registration of addicts with a view to their isolation and the prevention of transmission to others.

The Home Office already maintains a record of known addicts. The compulsory notification of addicts would require legislation, and I hope to be in a position to make an announcement about this shortly.

May I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply, and may I remind him that this and many other recommendations of the Brain Report are eagerly awaited by the House and the country as a whole?

I am fully aware of the urgency of the problem.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many responsible people feel that three or four times as many addicts exist in this country as are known and notified to his Department? As a high proportion of them become addicted through friends who are themselves already addicts, would not registration and subsequent isolation help to prevent the spread of what is becoming almost an epidemic?

I am not sure that I would like to be taken as accepting the exact proportions mentioned by the hon. Gentleman, but I am well aware that there must be more addicts than are known to my Department. It is for that reason that I am anxious to proceed with the implementation of the Brain recommendations as soon as practicable.

Would it help the right hon. Gentleman in his negotiations for Parlia- mentary time for his legislation both on drugs and clubs to know that it would receive a sympathetic welcome from this side of the House?

I am grateful to the right hon. and learned Gentleman, and I shall certainly take that into account.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what proposals he has for legislation to amend the Obscene Publications Act.

I am considering the need for amendment but am not yet in a position to make a statement.

Is it within the recollection of the Home Secretary that when the hon. Member for Birmingham, Stechford, as he then was, to his great credit, introduced the Obscene Publications Bill, the Conservative Law Officers of the day gave an undertaking that, wherever there was a question of literary merit and possible forfeiture because of the basic freedoms involved, there would be a right to trial by jury under Section 2 of the Act? In view of recent private prosecutions, Section 3 procedures have been adopted, and there have been summary trials. Does not the hon. and learned Gentleman agree that that defeats the purpose of the Act?

Order. Hon. Members must keep their supplementary questions short.

I am aware of the difficulty which has arisen, and it is precisely for that reason that I am considering the position.

Would the right hon. Gentleman accept that that legislation would be less uncontroversial than that to which I promised a welcome on the last Question?

I accept that it might not be entirely non-controversial, but it might not be entirely controversial in the strict party sense.

Leaving aside what the Conservative Law Officers may or may not have said, would not the Home Secretary, who has responsibility in this matter, agree that, in all cases where a substantial issue of liberty is raised, there should be an opportunity of trial by jury?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for underlining the truth of the latter part of my reply. I accept the fact that there is considerable force in that argument.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will introduce legislation before the next local elections to prohibit anybody voting more than once in such elections in the United Kingdom.

No, Sir.

As some 150,000 voters in the country, even outside Ulster, enjoy more than one vote, and as local elections are outside the terms of Mr. Speaker's Conference's investigation, will my right hon. Friend introduce one man, one vote into this country?

My hon. Friend's Question related to legislation before the next local elections, but, as he will know, Mr. Speaker's Conference and the Electoral Advisory Conference are engaged at present in a review of the law relating to Parliamentary elections. Local government electoral law will have to be considered subsequently.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will introduce legislation to put local elections in the City of London on the same basis as elsewhere in Great Britain.

This will, for all practical purposes, be the position if the City of London (Various Powers) Bill, now before Parliament, becomes law.

Would my right hon. Friend not agree that franchise in the City of London makes Ulster seem almost democratic by comparison? Will she set up this investigation into local electoral franchise immediately so that we can have majority rule in London?

Perhaps my hon. Friend is aware that, only last week, the City of London (Various Powers) Bill received a First Reading in another place and will be considered subsequently here and by the appropriate Committee.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many escapes or attempted escapes had been made by Frank Ellis Mitchell from institutions in which it was sought to detain him prior to his escape from Dartmoor on 12th December, 1966.

Between 1947 and 1950 Mitchell absconded four times from Borstals. He also escaped from Rampton Hospital in 1957 and from Broadmoor Hospital in 1958. He attempted to escape from Rampton in 1958 and, as part of a mass break-out, from Hull prison in 1962.

Can the Home Secretary say whether his present instructions permit the allowing out of working parties of prisoners with this kind of record of escapes and attempted escapes?

The right hon. Gentleman will be aware, if he has studied the Mountbatten Report, as I am sure he has, that it said that there was much to be said in support of the decision to allow Mitchell to join an outside working party, although not an honour party. One has to bear that in mind. In addition, one has to bear in mind the passage of time and that, in the case of most prisoners, one has to look forward to some release date.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that, where a system exists which permits a prisoner to make so many attempts to escape, there must he something seriously amiss with it?

It is a system which has existed for a very long time. It goes hack to 1947. I agree that there are certain things about the system which we should improve, and I am endeavouring to do that.

Will the right hon. Gentleman jog the memory of his right hon. Friend the Leader of the House about his promise to give Government time for a debate on the Mountbatten Report?

I am looking forward to that debate with anticipation which is as eager as that of the right hon. and learned Gentleman.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what is the estimated proportion of time spent by the police in England and Wales on administrative duties and on-the-beat duties, respectively; and if he will make a statement.

National figures are not available but I would refer the hon. Member to the statistics for a number of forces set out on page 313 of the First Report from the Estimates Committee 1966–67. These show that about one-third of the total duty time in those forces was taken up by on-the-beat duties; it is more difficult to draw conclusions about the time spent on administrative work.

Could the Home Secretary express an opinion about the suggestion in the Report of the Police Manpower Working Party that there should be appointed at a high level civilian administrative officers to police authorities to start a structure of service which would relieve policemen of routine paper work?

I am anxious to follow up all the recommendations of that Working Party dealing with the use of civilians of both high and less high qualifications where they can usefully relieve the police of duties which can be done without police training in a general sense.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the proportionate volume of police time which is occupied in regulating traffic, and consider whether, in those circumstances, in the highly efficient police force that we want, some of those duties might not be allocated in a different way and so augment the police service generally?

Yes. I am also aware of the value of traffic wardens in relieving the police of some duties and of the possible desirability of extending their powers and functions.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if, in view of the number of cases recently of fires and deaths caused by secondhand oil heaters, he will send a circular to local authorities drawing their attention again to their powers to prosecute those who sell secondhand oil heaters in the course of business.

One effect of amending Regulations made last June is that the Oil Heaters Regulations, 1962, now apply to all oil heaters offered for sale, irrespective of their date of manufacture. Local authorities were informed at that time that this provision had been introduced to facilitate enforcement of the law, especially in the case of secondhand heaters. I do not think a reminder is needed at present.

In view of the fact that the majority of accidents involving oil heaters appear to be caused by their lack of maintenance or improper use, such as using them for cooking, there is value in drawing the attention of local authorities to the kind of publicity campaign which the Borough of Lambeth has introduced recently. Would the right hon. Lady think again about sending a circular to remind local authorities of their powers in this respect?

If necessary, we shall do so. However, we have done this once, and there has been a considerable amount of publicity through the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, the Fire Protection Association, the oil appliances manufacturers, local authorities and home safety committees. In a number of areas where there are large immigrant populations, advice has been issued in languages such as Urdu, Greek and Turkish, so that a great deal has been done and is being done.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that on three occasions recently there have been serious fires in my constituency, when kiddies have lost their lives, because these heaters have been knocked over? As there is a new device which automatically puts out the flame when the lamp or the fire is knocked over, will my right hon. Friend do something about seeing that it is recommended to be included on all new heaters that are manufactured?

My hon. Friend has a later Question about that, when I shall answer it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many children have been taken into homes, or placed in foster homes, during the years 1964, 1965 and 1966; and what has been the cost for each of these years.

As the Answer contains a large number of figures I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

I shall be interested to see the figures which the right

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will now introduce legislation to enable Her Majesty's Government to fulfil their undertaking to accede to the Genocide Convention.

I regret that I cannot yet say when it will be possible to introduce this legislation.

Is my hon. and learned Friend aware that an undertaking was given in respect of this a considerable time ago? This really is a very urgent matter, and the world is waiting for a reply to it. When will my hon. and

I assure the hon. Lady that everything possible is being done by local authorities and by my Department, and I should like to pay tribute to those foster parents who sometimes take whole families so that they shall not be separated.

I am afraid that I cannot promise legislation this Session.

Shocking.

A number of Parliaments have passed without this legislation being introduced. I hope that before this Parliament is over my hon. Friend and many others will not be disappointed.

While I freely acknowledge that this Government are not the only Government who have sinned, would not the hon. and learned Gentleman recognise that world opinion simply will not accept a shortage of Parliamentary time as an excuse for not passing legislation of this kind?

Legislation of this kind will be passed, but, as the right hon. and learned Gentleman knows, there has been tremendous competition for Parliamentary time, particularly in Home Office matters, in this Session.

I accept that my hon. and learned Friend is in no way responsible for the present state of affairs, but will he bear in mind that ratification by this country of the Genocide Convention is all the more urgent since the Government of which he is a member continue to support actions which can only be described as actions of genocide by their American allies in Vietnam?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he has studied the recommendations put forward by the Social Committee at the Council of Europe, which were unanimously approved, concerning au pair girls; and what action he is considering taking concerning these proposals.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what is the policy of his Department in regard to acceptance of the recommendations of the European Agreement on au pair arrangements which was approved unanimously by the Council of Europe.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he intends to implement the recommendations of the Council of Europe on au pair arrangements; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what is the policy of Her Majesty's Government towards the recommendation contained in Document 2072 of the Council of Europe that the Committee of Ministers should prepare Europea Rules for the employment of au pair girls, which was passed unanimously by the Consultative Assembly on 29th September, 1966; and if he will make a statement.

The Council of Europe has appointed a sub-committee of officials to study the recommendations of the Consultative Assembly. The United Kingdom is represented on the sub-committee, which held its first meeting in November and is to submit a draft convention to the Committee of Ministers by the end of this year. It is too early to say what the outcome of these discussions will be.

May I ask the hon. Gentleman whether, in his new appointment, he has been able to see the previous records? I have led two delegations to the previous Government and to his Government in regard to the great urgency of taking some action about au pair girls. This term is in fact a misnomer. As we in this country take more au pair girls than any other country in Europe, will the hon. Gentleman see that his Government endorse the Convention?

I assure the hon. Lady that I have seen the records of previous discussions, and I am personally interested in this question. I might add that over the last 16 years in my family I have permanently had an au pair girl, amounting to about 50 by now, which has led to many personal and continuing contacts. I am very much aware of the representations which have been made, and certainly a very constructive attitude will be taken by our representative on the official committee.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is adverse criticism in all European countries at our reluctance to accept the resolution of the Council of Europe? Will he look particularly into the question whether there should be licensing and control of these au pair agencies?

I do not think that there is any question of having resisted the resolution of the Council of Europe. We have our representative on the special committee which has been set up. We have taken a very positive attitude, and a number of recommendations or draft rules are already in line with our practice. I think that the vast majority of au pair girls who come to this country have a very satisfactory experience, but, as I said earlier, we will consider all representations.

Is my hon. Friend aware that many of us who also have personal experience of the au pair problem are appalled at the difficulties both for the girls themselves who are at a very vulnerable age, and for the employers, due to our present haphazard arrangements? Is my hon. Friend aware that we would welcome very much anything that he could do to speed up action by his Department to bring us into line with the recommendations of the Council?

With regard to the question of age, at the moment we permit girls of 15 and over to come to this country. The draft rules of the Consultative Assembly suggest 18. I think that the figure of 18 would bring some problems for those girls who are finishing school and want to come here immediately before going on to a university or a job. I shall, however, certainly look carefully at the representations, including those from the association of which the hon. Lady the Member for Plymouth, Devon-port (Dame Joan Vickers) is chairman, the British Vigilance Association, to see what we can do before the next meeting of the Committee, which does not take place until May.

Both questions and answers are getting rather long.

Can the hon. Gentleman do anything to speed up the deliberations of this committee, which seem to be taking an appallingly long time?

It has decided that representations will be made to Ministers by the end of this year, and the official committee has its programme of meetings. The first one was in November. The next one will be in May, and by then certainly the position of the British representation will have been made clear.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in view of the fact that most of the official organisations connected with flat racing and steeplechasing are in favour of the totalisator in preference to bookmaking, some to the total exclusion of the latter, he will take steps to legalise totalisator betting on licensed harness race tracks.

Special considerations apply as regards the horserace totalisator, which is operated by a statutory body for the benefit of the horseracing and breeding industry in general. The 1951 Royal Commission saw objections to permitting additional facilities for totalisator betting on other sports. While I should not now regard their recommendations as conclusive, there is no early prospect of legislation to amend the relevant part of the Betting, Gaming and Lotteries Act, 1963.

Is it not absurd that the statutory board, whose interests are in gallopers, should have to take a decision about totalisators on race tracks for pacers and trotters, which is a new sport since 1951 and which brings in to the State of New York a revenue of 65 million dollars a year in tax revenue?

There is something for consideration here, and we do not regard existing legislation as sacrosanct. But there is no early possibility of amending legislation. The proposals already announced for the amendment of the Betting, Gaming and Lotteries Act are confined to Part II of the Act, relating to gaming.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many of the recommendations of the Mountbatten Report have been implemented; and whether he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what steps he is taking to implement the proposals of the Mountbatten Report on Prison Security.

The recommendations of the Mountbatten Report are being worked out in detail and many of them have already been implemented wholly or in part.

I hope to have an opportunity of making a full statement to the House on progress at an early date.

Does the right hon. Gentleman propose to give quick priority to improving promotion prospects within the prison service, which Lord Mountbatten indicated were unsatisfactory and which he thought to have been unsatisfactory for a very long time, and take into account the fact that the first promotion for any prison officer is after about 16 years? Will he do something to improve morale?

We are aware of the problem to which Lord Mountbatten drew particular attention, which is a problem we have in hand. It clearly requires negotiation with the Prison Officers' Association and some other people, but we are certainly working on this recommendation.

Surely the key to better prison security lies in spending more money on prisons. How can the right hon. Gentleman reconcile his good intentions with the fact that the Government have already cut the prison building programme by £1 million and intend to cut it by a further £600,000 in the coming year?

The cuts to which the hon. Gentleman refers were decided upon before the publication of the Report. In the case of many things one of the easiest ways to solve the problem involves spending more money, but we are confronted with a real problem here, and within the bounds of reasonable economy I hope that we shall not be too cheeseparing in our approach to what is a major national difficulty.

Will my right hon. Friend take special note of the statement made by Lord Mountbatten about overcrowding in prisons? There is a serious risk to security here. In view of the alarming conditions under which prison officers as well as prisoners have to exist today, will my right hon. Friend see that this question receives equal priority with the others?

Yes. I will take very close account of this because I am well aware that in trying to deal with prison overcrowding we are attempting to walk up an escalator which is moving downwards, as the prison population shows a constant tendency to increase.

Will the right hon. Gentleman give priority to the proper categorisation of prisoners from the point of view both of security and treatment, and also say what steps have been taken to improve the machinery for this?

We are already putting into effect the plans for categorisation. We were doing that before, and our action has been endorsed by Lord Mountbatten. We are proceeding rapidly on those lines. I would remind the House, however, that the best system of categorisation will involve occasional mistakes as to what is the right category.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in view of the fact that there are not totally secure prisons in this country, he will now consider recommending the installation of high-voltage electric fences round the perimeters of Her Majesty's prisons, following the Mountbatten Report.

No, Sir. Apart from any other considerations, the hon. Member is under a misapprehension if he thinks this was recommended by Lord Mountbatten.

I suppose we shall have to accept that—but is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is his own feather-bedding of the criminal classes that has done so much to undermine the morale of police and prison officers and to raise the rate of crime, on his own admission, to an all-time record level?

If the hon. Member wishes to make generalisations on this subject it is a pity, in the first place, that he should have tabled a Question apparently based either upon a misreading or a non-reading of a most important Report and, secondly, that he should have used this to erect something which is entirely unrelated to the general matter.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether the number of offences increased or decreased during the period when the Conservative Government were in power?

Order. Electric fences are not offences.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will adopt the procedure advocated by the Council of "Justice" in discussions with his Department, for dealing with cases where prisoners press their claims to innocence after their appeals have been dismissed either because of new evidence or because of matters into which the courts have failed to inquire.

There have been informal discussions between my Department and the Committee which the Council of "Justice" has set up to inquire into this matter, but I am not aware that the Committee has yet reached any conclusions.

Will not the Minister acknowledge frankly here and now, with special reference to the appalling miscarriage of justice revealed in the petition for a free pardon for my constituent, Mr. Trussell, that this procedure gives rise to serious and widespread anxiety? Will he refrain from making a decision on this petition until the whole procedure has been reviewed?

I will certainly look into that case, to which the Question does not relate, but I do not see how we can act on the recommendations of the Council of "Justice" until we have them.

In considering this general matter will my hon. and learned Friend take into account the problem presented where, although a man is innocent of some or all charges, he foolishly pleads guilty on the advice of his legal advisers and ends up by being imprisoned instead of being fined?

Certainly we shall look at all the circumstances, although my hon. Friend will realise that the scope for action on the part of the Home Office is limited when a matter has been considered by the courts. If he has a particular case in mind I hope that he will send me the details.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many prosecutions have been made by the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis for parking offences in King's Gardens and Benton Gardens, Seven Kings, Ilford; and what plans he has for instituting a special force of traffic police to control unlawful parking of cars in residential areas and for other similar purposes.

Between 1st January, 1966, and 11th January, 1967, 10 written cautions and 68 oral warnings were given for causing unnecessary obstruction in King's Gardens, and 41 written cautions and 20 oral warnings in respect of Benton Gardens.

My right hon. Friend is considering suggestions made by the Police Advisory Board Working Party for making the best use of available manpower by extending the powers and functions of traffic wardens.

I thank the Minister for that information, but is he aware that the residents of this area are fed up with the constant evasion and buck-passing that has met their protests, and that old and young people are in real danger in this area because of parking offences? Will he urge the Commissioner to take more effective action when he issues these cautions?

The Commissioner has considered this matter and has decided that statutory waiting restrictions would not be appropriate in these two gardens, as they are residential streets which are not important from the point of view of through traffic. Nevertheless, to minimise the inconvenience, of which he is aware, the employees of the Plessey Company have agreed to park on one side of the road only. I hope that that will help.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what action he now proposes to take to prevent the exploitation of travellers making use of taxicabs between London Airport and Central London.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what action he proposes to take to stop the practice of charging excessive fees for taxicabs travelling from London Airport to Central London.

The Government intend, when time permits, to introduce legislation to extend the control of fares for taxi journeys beyond the current six mile limit to include all journeys within the Metropolitan Police District, including those to or from London Airport.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that reply. Am I right in understanding it to mean that once this legislation is in effect the lawful fare will be that shown on the meter and nothing else?

I think that the right hon. Gentleman is broadly right in that assumption. It clearly remains to be seen what form the Bill takes—and it will have to be debated in this House and it will be subject to Amendment—but the intention is to deal precisely with the problem that the right hon. Gentleman has raised.

Eighteen months ago a Home Office Minister said that it was intolerable that the British public should be held to ransom and that early action would be taken. Is the Minister aware that the ransom has risen by about £1 a trip since then and that it is urgent that this Bill should be brought forward?

We endeavoured to make some progress with a Private Member's Bill on this subject towards the end of the last Parliament. Although at one stage the prospects were promising, later on it foundered. That is the reason why —without giving a precise undertaking when—I am introducing legislation.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what is the total amount expended to date in compensation payments under the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board; and how many victims of violent crime have benefited to date from these payments.

Up to the end of 1966, awards totalling £1,087,881 were made to 3,150 victims.

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that these awards have been properly distributed? Is he aware that it has been reported that, for example, considerable awards, amounting to thousands of pounds, have been paid to people who have been knocked down by cyclists in parks in which cycling is prohibited? Is that the intention of the Act and would he consider such matters to represent crimes within the meaning of the Act?

I am not aware of large, over-generous sums having been paid out in such circumstances, but I will look into that point.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what special precautions are being taken in connection with warnings of possible flooding, particularly in the London area, at the times of very high tides on 27th February, 1967, and again on 28th and 29th March, as the possibility of a North sea surge arising out of equinoctial gales on the latter dates must be taken into account.

There are standing arrangements for the issue of flood warnings as recommended by the Departmental Committee on Coastal Flooding in 1953. Flood warnings will be issued on these dates in the areas concerned, including the London area, if the need should arise.

Does the Under-Secretary recall that on 10th December, 1965, there was a very high tide which brought the water to within an inch or two of the top of the Terrace wall of the House of Commons? Does he further recall that on that occasion we were taken completely by surprise, that some parts of London were flooded and that the warnings that were issued were inadequate? As we are reaching the time of year when high tides occur, will he give an assurance that special warnings will be given about these dates?

I assure the hon. Gentleman that special warning will be given about these dates. The system has been revised since the incidents of December, 1965, to which the hon. Gentleman referred, and there is no reason to suppose that the present warning system will be inadequate.

Is my hon. Friend aware that his Department carries a very heavy responsibility for warning the residents of London of the possibility of flooding? Is he aware that the G.L.C. development at Thamesmead, which is in my constituency, places 60,000 more people at risk? Will he undertake to press his colleagues in the Government to pluck up their courage and take a decision on the provision of a Thames flood barrier?

I will certainly pass on my hon. Friend's remarks about a barrier, but to answer his question about giving warning, the warning given to local authorities is now a considerable one. It is a warning of something like five hours, while the warning given to residents is about 2¼ hours. As I said, we consider this to be satisfactory.

rose —

Order. Mr. Gresham Cooke. Question No. 26.

On a point of order. In view of the fact that my constituency suffers from flooding from the River Thames, may I put a supplementary question?

Many constituencies may so suffer, but we must get on.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if, following the lead given by the Greater London Council, he has now authorised the use of the automatic latched petrol nozzle in the model code on Dangerous Substances; and whether he will also include the use of self-service petrol pumps.

Licensing authorities were informed on 12th January of an amendment to the existing model code providing for the use of this device at attended filling stations. The appropriate technical committee, on which the licensing authorities and the oil industry are represented, has not yet completed its study of the use of self-service pumps.

As some local authorities seem reluctant to follow the lead given by the Greater London Council in authorising the use of the latched nozzle, would the right hon. Lady say whether the circular which went to all local authorities was couched in clear terms?

As far as I am aware, that is so. However, if the hon. Gentleman has any evidence which suggests that the contrary might have been the case, I hope that he will let me have it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how much money has been spent on prison buildings during each of the last five years.

As the Answer contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Will my right hon. Friend take advantage of one of the useful by-products of the malicious Press campaign in regard to prison escapes—the way in which it has drawn attention to the need to spend more money on prisons? What steps is he taking to replace such antiquated prisons as Dartmoor and Strangeways, which is in my constituency?

I would like to replace many prisons, some of which are 100 years old and some of which, like Dartmoor, are 150 years old. One of the great problems is the mounting prison population, which presses on such replacements as we can make. I hope that, as a result of the recent concentration of public attention on this issue, we shall be able to make some progress.

Was not the prison programme announced by the then Home Secretary in 1958–59 to provide increasing expenditure on prison building over the following 10 years? In view of the fact that the crime wave has increased steadily since then, would the right hon. Gentleman say how he justifies postponing or cutting back any part of that programme?

As I told the House previously, we are looking at the matter in the light of the Mountbatten Report.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will consider restricting the importation of finches into this country.

No, Sir. I do not know of any sufficient reasons for such a restriction.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, although a large number of these birds are imported into this country, the mortality rate among them is very high indeed? Is there not a paradox in this situation; that whereas, under the Protection of Birds Act, 1954, such birds as greenfinches and goldfinches cannot be sold alive unless close ringed or bred in captivity, nothing is being done about imported birds?

My hon. Friend appears to be an expert on this subject. I am aware of the keen interest he takes in it. As he knows, finches have been imported into this country for many years. The number of finches imported is believed to account for more than half the total number of birds imported. I am aware of what has happened in respect of some of the birds but as my hon. Friend knows, the question of the safety of birds carried by air is a matter for my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement about his official visit to Paris.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his official visit to the President of France.

asked the Prime Minister what discussions he had with President de Gaulle during his visit to Paris regarding reform of the world monetary system and the nuclear defence of Western Europe; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on the progress made to date in his discussions with the leaders of the European Economic Community countries.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement about the discussions he has had so far with the French Government about Great Britain's possible entry into the European Economic Community.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will make a statement on his recent talks with the President of France.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his recent discussions with the French Government.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his visit to the President of France with particular reference to discussions on the possible amendment of the Treaty of Rome in the event of a British application to join the European Economic Community.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his meeting with President de Gaulle.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his Common Market discussions with President de Gaulle.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement about his recent official visit to France.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his visit to Paris and the talks conducted with President de Gaulle to assess the possibilities of British Membership of the Common Market.

asked the Prime Minister (1) what conversations he has had with the President of France on the subject of the North Atlantic Alliance;

(2) what adjustments Great Britain is seeking in the European Economic Community's common agricultural policy as a condition for entry.

asked the Prime Minister whether he had any discussions with President de Gaulle during his visit to Paris about the possibility of France signing the test-ban treaty.

With permission, I will answer this Question and Questions Nos. Q2, 03, Q6, Q9, Q10, Q12, Q13, Q15, 017, Q21, Q22, Q23, 024 and Q25 together.

On a point of order. As this will be the first of several occasions on which the Prime Minister will wish to report on his foreign tour, may I seek your guidance, Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that answering so many Questions together must be inconvenient at Question Time. Would it not be more convenient for the right hon. Gentleman to answer them at the end of Questions?

Further to that point of order. As the House will be aware, Mr. Speaker, difficulties arise when so many Questions on the same subject appear on the Order Paper—difficulties for the Chair and difficulties from the point of view of how many Questions should be grouped together. We would be grateful for your guidance, Mr. Speaker, about the question of supplementary questions, in view of the possible interference with the rest of Question Time. I do not think that it would be appropriate for me to make a statement on each of the separate visits after Questions.

The Prime Minister indicated that he wishes to answer 15 Questions, many of them couched in nearly the same terms, together. The Committee on Procedure recommended in 1965 that the Chair should be selective in calling supplementaries on such occasions. I must be selective now. I am afraid, therefore, that some hon. Members who have Questions down will be disappointed, but I propose to try this as an experiment.

Further to that point of order. Would it not obviate this difficulty if the Prime Minister dealt with this matter by way of statement after Questions, as is the accustomed practice, thus leaving longer time for supplementary questions and so avoiding embarrassment to you and hardship to hon. Members?

I hope that any points of order on this important issue will be raised after the precious quarter of an hour which remains for Questions and which is ticking away. Mr. Marten.

Question No. Q1.

With permission, I will answer this Question and the others I have numbered together.

From 23rd to 25th January, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary and I visited Paris for discussions with the President of the French Republic, the French Prime Minister, M. Pompidou and the French Foreign Minister, M. Couve de Murville. This, as the House will know, was the second in the series of visits to all the capitals of the six Community countries, during the course of which my right hon. Friend and I are exploring whether or not conditions exist for fruitful negotiations leading to British membership of the European Economic Community. The discussions covered political, economic and financial questions arising in the context of eventual British membership of the Community.

Would the Prime Minister tell us something about the French attitude towards sterling as a reserve currency? Does he feel able at this stage to say what are the issues on which the French Government would wish Britain to dissociate itself from America over policy matters if we did join?

I think that following these talks, which in many ways went very well, we got to grips with a number of questions. The French Government will now, both among themselves and with their colleagues in the Six, have to consider their attitude, separately and collectively, to the points that were raised.

What has certainly caused one of the difficulties for them is the way in which they see—not the way in which we see—the functioning of the sterling area, which they tend to look upon in institutional terms. We spent a great deal of time explaining to them the functioning of the sterling area and some of the problems which they felt existed. I believe that we have given them a great deal to think about on this question.

In regard to the hon. Gentleman's second point, about dissociation from America. I should tell the House that I believe that this played a very much smaller part in the discussions than many hon. Members on both sides of the House, to judge from the last debate, would have expected.

Would my right hon. Friend accept that no doubt hon. Members in all parts of the House welcome the obvious improvement that has taken place in Anglo-French relations as the result of my right hon. Friend's visit? Would he say to what extent East-West relations formed a part of those discussions and whether developing East-West relations is likely to form a part of any future agreement on E.E.C.?

Yes, Sir. That was one of the main subjects in our discussions. I believe that both sides felt very strongly that if the other difficulties can be overcome—and I do not underrate how formidable they are—the position that a Europe more united and more industrially strong could take in improving East-West relations, first within Europe—the concept of the wider Europe which so many hon. Members have supported, as well as the French and British Governments—but also easing East-West relations in a wider area than Europe itself, that this would be one of the strongest arguments for attempting to reach a solution of our difficulties.

The right hon. Gentleman did not refer to the specific point raised in Question No. 13 in regard to the possible amendment of the Treaty of Rome. Is it too early for him to say whether it is proposed to accept the Treaty of Rome altogether or whether Her Majesty's Government are going to seek any amendment, especially to modify some of the supranational and bureaucratic provisions of the Treaty which do not have regard to the special position and needs of this country?

It is too early to give the general Government position on many of these issues, which we shall be discussing with the Heads of the Governments of the Six. So far we have made only two of the six visits. In regard to the Treaty of Rome, I stated the position of Her Majesty's Government in answer to a supplementary question put by the right hon. Gentleman the then Leader of the Liberal Party on 10th November. That is still our position. That is the position on which we have been discussing this matter in the two visits we have so far had.

Assuming that the talks proceed as happily as they appear to have proceeded at the last two meetings, would my right hon. Friend say whether or not he is giving any thought to the possibility of making application this year for the opening of formal negotiations on the Treaty?

That is a question with which I dealt in that supplementary answer on 10th November, when I said that the purpose of our visit was to ascertain whether conditions existed or did not exist for us to take a more formal decision than was possible in the absence of this information. Certainly I would feel that the first two visits have gone reasonably well—in some respects better than might have been expected. I certainly feel, regarding the discussions which we had in Paris, that the atmosphere is now very different than it was three years ago.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is general agreement that his first two visits have made good progress. [Interruption.] Is he aware that great satisfaction has been caused on the Continent by the emphasis which he has placed on Britain's readiness to play her part not only in the economic unification but also in the political unification of Europe?

I thank the right hon. Gentleman and while it is no secret that he and I do not see eye to eye on all questions—and certainly I do not always agree with all of his speeches—I welcomed the tone of his speech at Strasbourg on Tuesday.

May I congratulate the Prime Minister on his speech at Strasbourg, when he spoke for the entire nation, and may I ask him now to scale the heights of statesmanship further by making it quite clear that Britain intends to sign the Treaty of Rome, subject only to the necessary mechanical adjustments that have to be made and the transitional arrangements?

I do not think it is necessary for me to go beyond what I said about the Treaty of Rome in my answer to that supplementary question on 10th November and in the speech I made at Strasbourg on Monday, in which I dealt with this question in some detail.

As to our final attitude, we must await the result of the further four visits, after which we shall be able to look at the situation following the six visits as a whole, and when the Six have had a chance of discussing it among themselves. We can then see how British, European and world interests can best be served.

Can the Prime Minister say what area of agreement was found to exist between himself and President de Gaulle on the political organisation of an enlarged Community and any defence arrangements to go with it? Secondly, is the Prime Minister seeking to ensure that there are clear solutions to such problems as he mentioned, like the sterling area and international indebtedness, before he decides to embark on negotiations?

On the latter question of the sterling area, I think I should say that there was a very clear attitude on the part of the French Government about the question of sterling and the parity of sterling which helps to clear up a lot of misunderstandings about the French position of last year. So far as that is concerned, most of the issues raised are matters for the I.M.F. and the Group of Ten and for discussion in other directions.

I felt, however, and I was not surprised to find, that there were feelings which, I think, are based on misunderstandings about what the sterling area is about, what sterling balances are and the position of sterling as a trading currency. We did everything we could in the time to help to reassure French doubts about, as they would perhaps feel, the irreconcilability of sterling as an international currency with what we were talking about, namely, Britain's relationship to Europe.

As to political questions, it is certainly the case that in Paris political matters on both sides were stressed at least as fully, and possibly more fully, in the very widest sense, than purely economic matters. It was not considered appropriate, I think the House would agree, to discuss at this stage the question of the future political structure of Europe in relation to things like the Fouchet plan, and so on. That might be a matter for discussion in or even after the negotiations, and we want to be in on that.

Defence played very little part, a much smaller part than perhaps some of us, on both sides, had expected in the debate in November.