asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether when considering proposals for local government reorganisation in Wales, he will take into account the proposal made to the Royal Commission on Local Government that reforms should be based on the city region.

I have to consider all suggestions for changes in the structure of local government in Wales. It would not be proper, however, for me to comment on any particular idea in advance of presentation of my proposals to the House.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that any reform of local government in Wales must bring to an end the arbitrary and outdated distinction between counties and county boroughs?

All these matters are being carefully considered at the present time and it would be wrong for me to anticipate the White Paper which I propose to place before the House in due course.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when the Welsh economic development plan will be published.

Work on the White Paper on Wales is being pressed ahead as rapidly as possible and my right hon. Friend hopes to publish it before the House rises for the Summer Recess.

Is the Minister aware that the employment position in Wales, despite the fact that we have lost something like three quarters of a million people since 1921, is still worse than in any region on this island and there is a painful need for economic development and economic development planning? Is she not deeply ashamed that the Government, having promised us this report, have not succeeded in producing one and will not produce one until the latter part of this year?

While we are all concerned about the employment position in Wales, the fact that this study has not yet been published is not in any way holding up action. As for the study itself, it is essential that it should be thorough rather than one produced rapidly.

Does not my hon. Friend agree that it would serve the interests of Wales far better not to produce the plan too hastily?

We do not want to be dilatory about this, but it is important that adequate study should be made over a varied range of subjects.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what proposals he has to co-ordinate transport service throughout the whole of mid-Wales as far as passenger services are concerned, so as to serve the needs of passengers arising out of the recent and proposed changes in British Railways services between Shrewsbury and Paddington.

I understand that British Railways and the bus company concerned have made arrangements to co-ordinate their Mid-Wales services. If any particular problems arise, the newly appointed Passenger Transport Co-ordinating Committee for Wales will be able to consider them.

Will the Minister of State bear in mind that there is no proposed connection for the early train from Shrewsbury to Paddington, nor for the late train from Paddington to Shrewsbury, and this means that mid-Wales is virtually isolated from fast early and late trains?

I do not think we can debate individual train services now. Euston is to be the new station for connections with Aberystwith, and the number of services will not be fewer than those already in operation. For all but one train each way each day there is a considerable saving of time proposed.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what consultation there has been between the planning boards in Wales and the South-West to co-ordinate the two regional plans which are shortly to be published.

The chairmen of the two planning Boards maintain close contact on all matters of mutual interest.

Following the opening of the Severn Bridge, investment decisions, both public and private, on either side of the Channel are bound to affect developments on either side. Does my hon. Friend, therefore, not see that there is a case for further institutionalised contact between the two planning bodies on either side of the Bristol Channel?

I cannot say that I like the phrase "institutionalised contact", but, apart from that, my hon. Friend will be aware of the arrangements being made for a Severnside study in which the Welsh Office and the respective Departments in England will be closely concerned. As for day-to-day matters, as I have suggested, there is a continual interchange of views.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what criteria are employed in assessing the road needs of Wales in comparison with those of Scotland and England so that attention is paid to the special development needs of Wales.

The road programmes for England, Scotland and Wales are based upon assessments of future traffic volumes and possible savings in travel and accident costs. Road safety, developmental needs and other relevant factors are also taken into consideration.

Does not my hon. Friend agree that in the case of Wales traffic volume is simply not enough as a criterion, because of the very special road needs and because almost the whole of Wales is now a development area? Will he bear this and other considerations in mind?

Yes, but the road programme is related to traffic needs and not to comparisons of population or road mileage. I assure my hon. Friend that my right hon. Friend is jealously safeguarding the interests of Wales.

Will not the Under-Secretary agree that the criteria he has mentioned are insufficient? What about the North-South Wales trunk road? Surely other criteria must come into account in planning such a road to meet the special geographical needs of Wales?

We fully appreciate that. I assure the hon. and learned Gentleman that all relevent factors are taken into consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what progress has been made in the planning of Haverfordwest southern by-pass.

My right hon. Friend is now ready to state his proposals for the line of this road and he will publish the statutory notice on 8th March, 1967.

Whilst expressing my pleasure at my hon. Friend's remarks, may I ask him whether the people who are affected by this by-pass will be able to make any representations or objections?

Yes. There will be a period of three months during which objections can be made.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many local authority areas and how many derelict sites have been visited by the derelict land unit in his Department.

Thirty-five local authority areas and 25 sites have been visited.

I greatly appreciate that reply. Will my right hon. Friend say where these visits have been made and if arrangements for further visits by this special unit in his Department are being made?

All the visits made so far have been in the area of the South Wales coalfield. I hope that this activity will be extended to other parts of Wales, including North Wales, later this year. The unit proposes to visit Blaenau Ffestiniog towards the end of March.

I do not wish to press the Secretary of State for detailed information, but can he say what proportion of these sites indicated a need for very early attention?

I cannot go into any detail at this stage. If the hon. Gentleman has any specific cases in mind, perhaps he would see me or table a further Question to me. I am glad to say that none of the sites gives any immediate cause for concern, but we are anxious to remove the tips as quickly as we can, not only for psychological reasons, but also to return these areas to their original beauty.

Would my right hon. Friend consider the possibility of giving 100 per cent. grants to local authorities to help in this valuable work?

My hon. Friend will be aware of the considerable grants which are already available under the provisions of the Industrial Development Act, 1966. The substance of his question is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many new dwellings were completed in Wales last year; and how this compares with the average for the preceding five years.

19,360 compared with 16,070—an increase of 20 per cent.

I thank my hon. Friend for that very encouraging reply. Can he forecast what is likely to be the number of completions up to the end of this year, indicating separately those by local authorities and those from private sources?

It is difficult to give a reliable estimate, but I am pleased to be able to assure my hon. Friend that the figures this year have been most encouraging. The Housing Subsidies Bill will offer the most generous subsidies ever given in our history to local authorities and will, indeed, encourage private builders.

A Written Answer last Thursday showed that the total number of houses built by local authorities and for private ownership in 1966 were exactly 52 fewer than for 1965. Does the Under-Secretary describe that as dramatic success?

In view of the economic position, I would regard that figure as being a very small difference. The figures for January of this year are most encouraging. I have mentioned the Housing Subsidies Bill. I would also mention the mortgage option scheme, which is a great encouragement to private builders.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether, in view of the growing difficulty in admitting children to primary school immediately after their fifth birthday, he will seek to arrange for these children to receive a supply of free milk at home pending their admission to school.

No, Sir. This would require legislation and a costly administrative machine out of all proportion to the numbers involved.

Is my hon. Friend aware that that is a pretty disappointing Answer? As we do not at the moment know what the numbers involved maybe over the next few years, will he take another look at this? Is he aware that the numbers of school children involved might be very small now, but that they are all suffering from the withdrawal of an important nutriment which is particularly important among lower-paid families? Will my hon. Friend consult my right hon. Friends the Ministers of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and Health to see whether he could not correct the situation?

We will certainly reconsider this matter. I am informed that the maximum period for which any child could suffer under these difficulties would be eight to nine weeks, which would involve an outlay of 1s. 4d. a week in that period, or a maximum of 12s. for the whole period.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree with the figure of £14 million quoted in The Times yesterday as the amount which could be saved here? Cannot he agree that at least some of this money could be put to better educational uses without depriving those children most in need?

I do not think that the facts which the hon. Gentleman quoted from The Times are relevant to the numbers of children who ought to be in school but who cannot get into school.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what proposals he has for introducing into primary and secondary schools courses in the principles of humanism as an alternative to religious instruction.

Sections 25 to 29 of the Education Act, 1944 lay down certain requirements about religious instruction in maintained schools. I have no legal power myself to dictate what should or should not be included in the school syllabus.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is a growing tendency among parents, and indeed, among school children, to look askance at the value of religious instruction as it is now given in schools? Would he take steps to recognise that the ethics of humanism are not in any way antithetical to the religious instruction which is now given in schools? Would he, perhaps in consultation with one of his advisory councils, consider whether something could be done to promote alternatives to present religious instruction?

If my hon. Friend is saying that there is strong objection to the principle of religious instruction in schools, I do not think that this would be generally correct, if we took into account public opinion as a whole. Where, however, my hon. Friend is right is in saying that there is a great deal of dissatisfaction at the way this instruction is often now given. On this, as he will know, the Plowden Committee gave us a considerable amount of advice, which I am considering along with the Committee's other recommendations.

Would not the Secretary of State agree that the objective of his hon. Friend has been largely attained by the fact that religious instruction in many schools is in the hands of teachers who are either agnostics or atheists?

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will encourage other local authorities to follow the lead of the Inner London Education Authority to encourage teachers of religious instruction to attend courses on humanism.

This is a matter for local education authorities to decide for themselves.

Would my hon. Friend not agree that some of the agreed syllabuses now permit the teaching of comparative religion and humanism, that it is very desirable that teachers of religious instruction, most of whom are Christian, should know something about comparative religion and humanism, and that the Ministry should encourage attendance at such courses?

I certainly agree that there should be the widest possible knowledge of all ethical and moral matters by all teachers. It is also desirable to bear in mind that it is not for Ministers and politicians to tell teachers what they shall teach or how they shall teach it.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science to what extent it is the policy of his Department to secure that facilities for religious worship are provided in universities; and what steps he is taking to ensure that such facilities are provided in the universities now under construction.

It is not the policy of the Department to intervene in this matter, which is for the universities themselves.

Is it not important where there are large numbers of young people in areas sometimes away from centres of population that there should be such facilities? Will the hon. Gentleman discuss this informally with the University Grants Committee?

I think that a great deal is done already. Most university courts, if not all, have members of the various religious denominations serving on them. I understand that ministers of religion are given every opportunity and encouragement by our universities to exercise pastoral care.

If expense is important, as I suspect it is, will the Minister of State ask people to have a look at what happens at London Airport, where various denominations use the same buildings? Could not this be applied to universities?

This is the practice in some universities. Universities generally prefer that buildings for this purpose should be financed from private benefaction rather than from public funds.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what representations he has received over the proposed fees for overseas students.

I have received representations from a considerable number of bodies. I am carefully considering these, and shall take them into account in subsequent consultations about the application of these proposals.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the decision to increase fees for overseas students is highly unpopular in academic circles and among students? Can he tell us now what is to be done to help future students as well as existing students? We expect some concessions today.

Whatever my hon. Friend expects, I hope that he will at least do me the courtesy of listening to my speech this afternoon. He will then find that a large number of criticisms which have been made are highly inaccurate and totally false.

Is it, then, the right hon. Gentleman's intention to reject the representations made by the Robbins Committee that overseas students should not be charged at a different rate from home students?

I do not know how much time the hon. Gentleman has this afternoon, but, if he will be so courteous as to listen to what I may say later if I catch Mr. Speaker's eye, he will hear an extremely full answer to that question.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether, in those cases where a university represents to him that some easement is merited on grounds of hardship, he will assist universities to meet the fees of students from underdeveloped countries affected by his recent decision on overseas students' fees.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the Answer I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Oxford (Mr. Luard) on 14th February.—[Vol. 741, c. 73.]

Does my right hon. Friend realise that the suggestion implicit in the Question would allow a certain degree of selectivity to help students from underdeveloped countries while preserving their independence from their own Governments, and will he bear in mind the grave concern felt about this section of overseas students?

I am very much aware of the concern which my hon. Friend expresses. It was for this reason that we decided to set up the fund which I announced last week. I hope also that, when we come to interpret the definition of a course, we shall do what we can to ease hardship.

No doubt, we shall be discussing the general principles involved later today, but will the right hon. Gentleman recognise that there is, or there is likely to be, a great number of cases of hardship, and will he say how Members should deal with these in relation to their constituencies?

As I shall hope to explain later today, if I catch Mr. Speaker's eye, we are now in process of drawing up the memorandum which will carry the concept of the hardship fund a good deal further. If the right hon. and learned Gentleman will allow me a few days, I shall hope to be able to answer his question regarding constituents.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that there are overseas students on non-advanced courses paying £30 a year in fees who, on the present proposals, will find their fees running up to £250 a year without any cushioning?

I hope to be able to answer that question fully later this afternoon.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science by how much the setting up of a fund to provide for overseas students in need will reduce the expected savings from the increase in fees for overseas students.

I would ask the hon. Gentleman to await what I shall have to say in the debate later this afternoon.

When we are privileged to listen to that much-heralded speech—and I am happy to say that I shall be present—will the right hon. Gentleman bring into his computation the extension of the fund which was announced in the early morning of Tuesday by the Minister of State?

Yes, Sir.

Would it not be better if the right hon. Gentleman answered the question now, so that the debate which follows can be more intelligible?

I am much obliged to the hon. Gentleman for his kind advice. But, having followed this question, he will know that it is one of considerable intricacy, and it would probably be more helpful to the House if I could answer it at rather greater length than is possible at Question Time.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will issue a circular to encourage local authorities to establish more special units for the education of partially hearing children attached to normal primary and secondary schools in England and Wales.

No, Sir. Units are being opened as fast as the supply of teachers of the deaf allows. Plans for training more teachers are under discussion.

Is my hon. Friend aware that some authorities are going ahead with plans for educating partially hearing children separately from normal children still? Is it not time that the whole situation was reviewed in order to ensure that scarce education resources are not devoted to a form of education which, perhaps, is not the best in the light of modern knowledge?

While it may well be true that this is happening in a number of cases—if my hon. Friend has information, I shall look into any detailed cases which he brings to my attention—I am certain from the figures available to me that the general drift is in the general direction which he would approve.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will now authorise the purchase of the site for the proposed two-form entry Roman Catholic primary school at Radford, Coventry, for which formal planning application was made in June, 1965, and approved by the Coventry planning committee.

The Department has not yet received an application from the Coventry local education authority for approval to the purchase of this site since, I understand, the local authority is seeking planning permission for the use of a site at present used for statutory allotments.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that, in view of the number of school children in this area, the matter is now of great urgency? Will he concert action with the Ministry of Housing and Local Government to ensure that the site is rapidly aquired and that the allotment holders now in possession are given early alternative accommodation?

The Ministry of Housing has special responsibility regarding planning applications, listening to objections, and so forth, and it would, therefore, be wrong to bring pressure to bear on that Department in the matter. Coventry has put this scheme in its 1968–69 major building programme. This has not yet been announced by us, although, as my hon. Friend will understand, we are giving special attention to it.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what advice he has circulated to local education authorities on education in schools about the dangers of drug addiction.

My right hon. Friend drew attention last year, in Education Pamphlet No. 49 on Health in Education, to the need for instructing older children on the dangers of drug taking. We are now in the course of preparing more extensive advice.

Is it not clear that a great deal of harm is being done merely through blank ignorance? Is it not time to step up the campaign a little and, perhaps, to invite the police and others concerned to co-operate with the education authorities?

We are giving very serious consideration to what should be done. There are two sides to the question. While we want to give more extensive professional advice to teachers in the schools, we do not want unnecessarily to arouse a lot of curiosity which is not there at the moment among youngsters.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will initiate a full inquiry into the system of training teachers.

I am still considering this recommendation of the Plowden Report.

Is it not urgent that assistance for the training of teachers should be given priority consideration, and will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to speed up his decision as much as possible?

I agree that a considerable number of people, including the members of the Plowden Council, would like to see an inquiry of this kind. On the other hand, we have to bear in mind that the colleges of education have gone through many revolutionary changes almost in the last few years—the three-year course, the B.Ed., "Box and Cox", and all the rest—and the question is whether at this moment of time it would be right to put another rather serious burden of inquiry on them.

When looking into this, will the right hon. Gentleman consider also whether any possible inquiry should include the training of teachers' aides as well as of qualified teachers themselves?

I shall certainly consider that.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when he hopes to give a decision about the Southend-on-Sea Council's scheme for educational reorganisation in the borough.

Shortly, Sir.

Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that he has taken note of the strong objections made to his Department about these proposals? Can he give me an undertaking that there will be a public inquiry before any decision is reached?

We cannot give that undertaking. It is because there are a number of objections which my right hon. Friend has to consider that I cannot go further than I did in answer to the original Question.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will give an assurance that it remains the policy of Her Majesty's Government to provide substantial increases in the pay and status of teachers; and when he expects to implement this policy.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when the management panel of the Burnham Committee intends to resume negotiations on the claim for higher salaries submitted by the teachers' panel.

Any increase in teachers' pay is in the first instance a matter for the appropriate Burnham Committee. The management panel of the Burnham Primary and Secondary Committee has informed the teachers' panel that it cannot make an offer until the Government have made known their policy on pay increases after the end of the period of severe restraint. I cannot yet say when this will be.

As both the Prime Minister and several other Ministers at the time of the last election gave a pledge that this would happen, while making no pledge about severe wage restraint, can my right hon. Friend say whether they will honour their pledge on increased wages rather than impose a severe restraint on wages which never appeared in their election programme?

That question seems to go rather beyond matters for which I am personally responsible, but I bear in mind my hon. Friend's references and I shall continue to do so while we are considering this problem.

As it is less than two years since the right hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends secured the approval of the House for measures relating to the negotiating procedure for teachers' pay, would it not be much better to let this negotiating procedure go ahead and see where we get to like that?

There is nothing in what is now happening in any way inconsistent with any provisions of the Remuneration of Teachers Act to which the hon. Gentleman refers. The negotiations can and will go ahead as soon as the Government's policy for the period after severe restraint has been announced.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is considerable disgruntlement among teachers at the suspension of negotiations, and will he, therefore, have urgent consultation with his right hon. Friend and with all the appropriate authorities in order to make sure that negotiations can go ahead forthwith, whatever decisions may be taken about their result at a later stage?

I am as anxious as my hon. Friend to get the negotiations started as soon as possible, but we cannot begin negotiation except within the framework of general Government policy covering the period after the period of severe restraint.

Will the right hon. Gentleman make clear that the negotiating procedure can carry on as before without let or hindrance from him, or, if not, will he explain by what power the Government seek to prevent this happening?

There is no question of the Government using any legal power to prevent it happening. I explained how the position stands in my answer to the original Question. I shall shortly be meeting representatives of all the associations on the Burnham Committee in order to explain the position to them.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will state the number and percentage of all overseas students at British universities coming from Europe, Commonwealth countries, the United States of America, and other countries, respectively.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will state the number and percentage of Commonwealth students at British universities coming from advanced countries within the Commonwealth and underdeveloped countries within the Commonwealth respectively.

As the Answer contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, publish it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that about half the overseas students at British universities come from the Commonwealth, that about 50 per cent. of those students receive grants, and that about 50 per cent. of the Commonwealth students from under-developed countries have no grant? Are those facts not serious?

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science why he has decided to withdraw his Department's grant to Studley Agricultural College; if he will reconsider his decision; and if he will make a statement.

Substantial capital expenditure would be required at Studley if it were to continue as an agricultural college. After reviewing the provision for agricultural education at similar levels in the light particularly of the recent report of the Advisory Committee on

On the basis of a rather rapid look through a considerable number of figures, I think that I can confirm that my hon. Friend is correct in his three stated figures.

As the right hon. Gentleman has shown himself so anxious to assist the House in this afternoon's debate, would he put that set of figures in the Vote Office so that we may have them this afternoon?

I shall consider whether that can be done.

Is my hon. Friend aware of the long and distinguished record of the college? Is there conscious discrimination against single-sex colleges, and if so, why should it be applied only to women's colleges and not men's. Will he reconsider the decision in the light of the considerable representations being made by the governors, staff and students?

I can give an absolute assurance that there was no question of sex discrimination. There arc 40 other agricultural education establishments in England and Wales, practically all of which admit women and offer a very wide choice of different places. I am assured that the women students my hon. Friend has in mind will have no difficulty in securing places in equally good establishments catering for that kind of education.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Department's estimate of the capital expenditure involved in bringing Studley up to what his inspectors require for the future is not accurate, in the governors' view, and that the timing and amounts are excessive? Is he also aware that there is no other institution in the country which provides a farm secretary's course of the nature and quality provided by Studley? Does he really believe that other agricultural institutes give the proper education for the jobs that women can do that Studley does?

We must differ as to the amount involved in bringing Studley up to the required standard. While there is an excellent secretarial course at Studley, there is undoubtedly a wide range of equally good secretarial courses in other agricultural institutions. There will be absolutely no difficulty in placing women students who wish to follow that kind of secretarial course in other colleges.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what steps he is taking to encourage more men teachers to go into primary schools.

My right hon. Friend has urged local education authorities to guide more newly qualified teachers into primary schools and has encouraged colleges of education to continue to bring home to their students the pressing needs of the primary schools. An increasing proportion of men students entering training take courses in primary teaching and their absolute numbers have more than doubled in four years.

In view of the alarming and continuing rate of wastage of women teachers to marriage outside the profession, would the hon. Gentleman not agree that it is important to get a higher proportion of men students into primary schools—"brave men", to quote Plowden—as that is more likely to persuade women teachers to stay on in their profession and perhaps fall in love with it?

All our experience is that teachers marry teachers much more often than is desirable—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—from the point of view of pure educational considerations. I am happy to say that there is also a great deal of evidence that that is not to be regarded as absolute wastage since many more are coming back into the profession when their families are growing up.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what regulations he has issued governing the procedure for the handcuffing of prisoners under escort; and what safeguards exist to secure conformity in the procedures and to ensure that prisoners are not handcuffed unnecessarily.

It is for the prison governor to decide in any particular case whether handcuffs need to be used, having regard to the age and character of the prisoners, the nature of the journey, and other relevant circumstances. Detailed guidance is given in Prison Standing Orders, of which a copy is in the Library of the House.

Surely it must have been an entirely anomalous and unjustified application of those procedures whereby a constituent of mine was taken handcuffed, under escort, from Hertfordshire all the way to Somerset to face a relatively minor charge of larceny, on which he was granted bail when the hearing was adjourned and which was subsequently dismissed by the justices? What steps does the right hon. Lady propose to take to see that that sort of thing does not happen?

If the right hon. and learned Gentleman will let me have the particulars of that case, I shall certainly look into it. Security must always be paramount, and it is entirely a matter for the judgment of the governor.

Could my right hon. Friend have a word with the Secretary of State for Defence and see that prisoners of the military authorities are also treated reasonably in these matters?

That is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence, and it has been raised in the House.

Is the right hon. Lady not aware that I sent the full particulars of the case to her right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, and I had a letter from him last month dealing with those matters?

I shall certainly look into that. The Question is general, and I was not aware of the case the right hon. and learned Gentleman had in mind.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what study he has made of the unanimous resolution sent to him by the Newcastle-on-Tyne magistrates on certain aspects of the Criminal Justice Bill; and whether he has received other representations in similar terms.

I have taken note of the views of the Newcastle-upon-Tyne magistrates. I have received from other bodies representations covering the same points.

Is the hon. and learned Gentleman aware that representations have been made by the Magistrates' Association, the Law Society and a great many others on this point? May I have an assurance that not only will he note this but will take action to do away with the practice proposed, which has aroused so much opposition from responsible people in the country.

If we had not already been aware of representations of this sort, we were forcefully made aware of them when the question of bail and suspended sentences was considered in Committee upstairs on the Criminal Justice Bill. There has been a very full discussion of these matters in that Committee.

Steamrollered.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many expectant mothers received gaol sentences during the years 1965 and 1966; and how many children were born to mothers undergoing prison sentences in the same years.

The information asked for in the first part of the Question is not available. In 1965, 38, and in 1966, 41, women and girls serving prison sentences gave birth to babies in outside hospitals. One baby was born in 1965, and two in 1966, to women in prison.

Mr. Mitchell? Sir Malcolm Stoddart-Scott—Question No. 37.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I put a supplementary question on No. 35?

I have called Question No. 37.

asked the Postmaster-General if he is aware that the proposed road scheme will mean the demolition of Blubberhouses Post Office; and what steps he is taking to provide alternative facilities and to remove the concern felt by many retirement pensioners.

Yes, Sir. We are in close touch with the local authorities concerned and intend to maintain a sub-post office in Blubberhouses after the present office premises are demolished.

asked the Postmaster-General how many households in the United Kingdom do not receive a daily postal service; and what steps he is taking to reduce the figure.

About 4,000, mostly on off-shore islands, with some in other remote rural areas. A daily service is given to such places when the amount of correspondence for delivery is enough to make the cost worthwhile.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that it is extraordinary that, in this day and age, there should be places on the mainland of Britain that do not receive a daily postal service? Will he look again at the case I sent to him—

Order. It is difficult to have Question Time against a background of conversation.

Will the right hon. Gentleman look again at the case I sent him from my constituency, where the service is technically feasible although admittedly at a fairly high cost per letter?

The hon. Gentleman wrote me about Upper Ettrick Valley and I replied on 11th February. The cost per letter would have been Is. 6d. and we felt that this was too high to meet.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what representations have been made by the South African Prime Minister on the supply of spare parts to South African naval forces under the terms of the Simonstown Agreement; and what reply he has sent.

None, Sir.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is widespread misunderstanding on this issue and that it is generally thought that we have failed to observe in specific terms a specific agreement? If that is not so, will he take an early opportunity to make it clear?

I assure the hon. Gentleman that we are supplying the South African Navy with spares required for repairs for ships that we have supplied to it in recent years.

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what arrangements have been made for a Minister to attend the ceremony at Cammell Lairds, Birkenhead, to mark the launching in the near future of the Royal Navy's next Polaris submarine.

My right hon. Friend the Defence Secretary and my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for the Navy will attend this launch.

In view of the Prime Minister's commitment to this Polaris, would it not be more suitable if he himself went?

Two Ministers—one representing the Royal Navy and the other representing the Government—should be sufficient.

Does not my hon. Friend agree that the entire Polaris submarine programme is a great waste of money? Does not he agree that the City of Liverpool and other areas on Merseyside could do with that money being spent in getting over the housing problem?

No, Sir. Meanwhile, this programme is providing local employment in the region.

Will the ceremony be followed by a funeral service for the Government's proposal for an Atlantic nuclear force?

Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will accept the Asquithian "wait and see".

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will now cause to be published a Command Paper setting out the changes required in the Statute Law on Great Britain adhering to the Treaty of Rome in its existing form and the means by which such changes would be brought about.

I have at this stage nothing to add to the reply given to the right hon. and learned Gentleman by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on 15th November lastt.—[Vol. 736, c. 72.]

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Prime Minister's reply then was that he would continue to bear in mind the suggestion I had originally made to him in May, at which date he had also promised to bear it in mind? At what stage with Her Majesty's present Ministers does contemplation turn to action?

It would be more appropriate to implement the right hon. and learned Gentleman's wish when we have decided whether or not to apply for membership of the Common Market.

asked the Prime Minister what restrictions on British commercial activities in France were discussed during his meeting with President de Gaulle.

None Sir.

Is the Prime Minister aware that, for a period of some six months, delivery of British exports to France in British vehicles has been restricted by what is known as the "zone court", some 250 kilometres from the coast, after which all goods have to be transferred to French vehicles? No such restrictions operate on French deliveries to this country. Is he further aware that it is the general view in France that our licensing procedures are unduly complex? Will he ask the Minister of Transport to look into this to see whether we cannot get some reciprocity?

This matter was not discussed with President de Gaulle, and I am beginning to understand why. Certainly this would be a matter for discussion with the French Government by my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade and I will discuss it with my right hon. Friend.

asked the Prime Minister what instructions he gives to Ministers with regard to their officially addressing rallies called to support British entry to the Common Market.

asked the Prime Minister if he will instruct Ministers and other members of the Government not to attend and address, in their official capacity, meetings called for purposes inconsistent with Government policy.

The rules governing Ministerial conduct in these matters are well known and no further instructions are necessary.

Is the Prime Minister aware that the Foreign Secretary made an extremely good speech last night? Is he further aware that, if his negotiations should not succeed, it will be because Ministers have shown too little enthusiasm for the cause rather than too much?

I do not accept the second part of that supplementary question, but I agree with what the hon. Gentleman said about my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary who, on this occasion, as on all other occasions—and this applies to all Ministers at public meetings, held under whatever auspices—was expressing Government policy.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that mine is a very different Question? Will he also recognise that the presence of Ministers gives, by virtue of their office, an undeserved prestige and prominence to what might otherwise be inconsequential gatherings? [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] Will he make it clear to all his colleagues that the country is not committed to unconditional entry into the Common Market?

The House is delighted with my hon. Friend's phrasing. The position has always been that Ministers can attend meetings under the auspices of different bodies without necessarily sharing the objectives and the policy of those bodies. Every Minister I have ever known has done that at some time or other.

The position regarding entry into the Common Market is as I stated it on 10th November, 1966, when I said that we were undertaking these visits to see whether it was possible to get conditions for entry into Europe which would safeguard essential British and Commonwealth interests. That has been the basis throughout from 10th November, when it was announced.

However inconsequential, would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that meetings of the Parliamentary Labour Party are now almost always meetings called for purposes inconsistent with Government policy?

No, Sir. Even the very much larger meetings of the Parliamentary Labour Party than the meetings the right hon. Gentleman is used to are not called for that purpose.

Is the Prime Minister aware that the organisers of last night's Albert Hall meeting are most grateful for the massive advance publicity provided free of charge by the right hon. Member for Easington (Mr. Shinwell)?

I have no doubt that they are very grateful, and I am sure also that all who attended would be grateful that my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary made quite clear the difficulties and problems about British entry and did not lend himself to the doctrine of unconditional entry, which is the policy of the party which I think the right hon. Member still supports.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I am very grateful for the favourable commendation from the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Streatham (Mr. Sandys), but in the Government's present difficulties, which cannot be concealed, does he not think it advisable for members of the Cabinet to be careful about the company that they keep?

In view of the courtesies between the two right hon. Members, which I must say are over my head, I would certainly not feel that any difficulty has arisen from the presence of my right hon. Friend at that meeting, despite the fact that I understand that at least one right hon. Gentleman present took advantage of the occasion to make a little party capital, even though I thought that it was a non-party occasion.

Can the Prime Minister tell us who are these mysterious people who want to go into Europe without any conditions? So far we have never been able to discover one.

In view of the unutterable confusion caused by the various Ministerial statements on the Common Market, may I ask whether the Prime Minister is thinking of issuing a D notice to stop any of them being reported?

asked the Prime Minister when he expects to reach a decision on whether or not to apply for membership of the European Economic Community.

I have nothing to add to my reply to a supplementary question by the hon. Gentleman the Member for Banbury (Mr. Marten) on 2nd February.—[Vol. 740, c. 769.]

Can the Prime Minister give an assurance that he will arrange time for debate in the House between the ending of his probes in Europe and the taking of a decision on entry? Secondly, would he not agree that pressure by Her Majesty's Government for a non-proliferation treaty, which might be held to discriminate against or between existing members of the European Community, would have a very damaging effect upon our chances of entry?

The timing of any decision, as I have told the House, is a matter that will have to be considered after the present series of visits is complete. I have nothing to add to that at present. With regard to the nonproliferation treaty, I know that there are difficulties for Germany and other non-nuclear countries in this matter, because of their fears, which I think are unfounded—[An HON. MEMBER: "Nonsense."]—they are worried about the effect on their peaceful development of atomic energy. In my discussions with the Chancellor of Germany last week there was no suggestion that this was in any way connected with the question of Britain's entry to the Community, except that our entry would help strengthen Euratom or any successor body to Euratom.

Does not my right hon. Friend recognise that when he said "We mean business", it gave the impression abroad that we did? Therefore, if we are to maintain that impression, should it not be now, not in the far distant future, that the Government must make up their mind, one way or the other, as to whether we are to go into the Community?

It meant that we did mean business, and that we do mean business. All of the European leaders we have talked to are in no doubt whatever about the fact that we mean business. Each one to whom we have talked has received reports from the others, fully convinced of that fact. As I made clear on 10th November. we have to find out what are the likely terms, conditions and difficulties. When we have finished the tour we can then take a decision about it. It may be that one or two of the countries with whom we are dealing might feel that these difficulties can be overcome, given further discussions, before there is any question of formal negotiation.

asked the Prime Minister how far he discussed Great Britain's immigration problems with the heads of the Common Market countries; and what undertakings he sought that they would accept Commonwealth immigrants both from Great Britain and from all the Commonwealth countries.

I have had no discussions on this problem, Sir.

Why did not the Prime Minister have discussions on this important problem? Will he ask the European countries which of them is prepared to accept Afro-Asian Commonwealth immigrants from this country?

The reason why I did not have discussions about this question was because the purpose of my visit was to discuss the question of Britain's entry into the European Economic Community. This did not seem to be a relevant consideration in those discussions.

asked the Prime Minister if he will give his reasons for not transferring the functions in Wales of the Board of Trade to the Welsh Office.

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales already has oversight within Wales of the execution there of the Board of Trade's national policy. While I am naturally always considering whether any changes are needed, my present view is that there is advantage to Welsh economic development in the retention of the administrative link between the Board of Trade's present services in Wales and its central and regional services elsewhere.