asked the Minister of Technology how far below strength are the numbers of accountants and technical costs officers employed by his Department; and what action is being taken to rectify the position.

Since 1st April, 1964, the complements for these classes of staff have increased from 104 to 113 and from 261 to 352 respectively. The numbers now employed are below these revised complements by 28 and 76 respectively, and energetic efforts are being made to reduce this gap by recruitment, redeployment of staff, and by taking every opportunity to adjust methods and procedures so as to make the most effective use of the staff we have.

Would my hon. Friend agree that energy is not enough in this matter; that we need to know the precise causes and reasons for the shortage of staff if we are to have adequate control of the astronomically expensive contracts we are facing?

I agree that we must do our utmost to improve the numbers of staff. I am glad to say that within the last three years the numbers in this division have been increased by 15 per cent.

Is the Minister of State aware that at the time of the Lang Report one of the reasons for shortage of staff was the low rates of remuneration paid to technical costs officers, going down to as low as £750? Has any improvement been made in the rates of pay since the Lang Report?

That is a consideration for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer—among his other considerations.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there are not sufficient accountants in this country to look after the probity of firms if the firms themselves are not honest, and that the greatest solution to this problem is to have upright firms dealing with an upright Government and each treating the other fairly?

It is correct to say that there is a general shortage of accountants in the United Kingdom.

asked the Minister of Technology what are the expected export orders and despatches for the motor car industry during 1967; and how these will compare with 1966 and 1965 and with the expectations of the National Plan.

It is likely that the total value of the industry's exports in 1967 will be higher than in 1965, and at least as high as the record 1966 figures. No forecast of exports was made in the National Plan for individual years between 1964 and 1970.

Can the Parliamentary Secretary say whether it is now the Government's view—[Interruption.]

Order. We cannot have Questions against a background of conversation.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether it is now the Government's view that the exports of the motor industry are assisted by a buoyant home market or by a restrained home market?

Quite clearly, there is a balance of advantages here. It is certainly true that the proportion of exports from the British motor industry has been declining for many years during which the home market has been relatively buoyant.

asked the Minister of Technology if he will make a statement on the expected demand for machine tools and profitability of the machine tool industry during the next 12 months.

No detailed forecasts are made. It is likely that the demand for machine tools over the next 12 months will be slightly lower than during the last 12 months.

Is not the Parliamentary Secretary aware that a very large number of major British machine tool manufacturers are very concerned about the prospects for their profitability, and would he take this fact very much to heart?

Yes, certainly, Mr. Speaker. The matter of vital importance is that the machine tool industry should maintain its plans for expansion. I am glad to say that the plans are being maintained, and that the prospective rate of expansion is well over the National Plan target.

Would the hon. Gentleman agree that it would help the home market for British machine tools if the Royal Ordnance factories and other Service Departments were instructed to buy British machine tools wherever available instead of buying foreign?

That is already the case.

As to machine tools, will the Minister consult the President of the Board of Trade with a view to seeing that north-east Scotland gets its share of the forthcoming orders contemplated in this Question?

North-east Scotland is never forgotten.

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that there is a very serious discrepancy between the figures on the order book states of the machine tool trade associations as distinct from those of the Board of Trade? Will he see that we can get a closer approximation of these two figures?

Yes, certainly. I will do my best to do that.

asked the Minister of Technology when he will decide which British Airports will be used by the Concord during the period when it is undergoing test flying.

The aircraft used for development test flying will be flown from Bristol, where they are being made, or from Government research establishments. There is no intention of using ordinary civil airports during this period.

As and when further aeroplanes become available and suitable for testing, will the claims of Prestwick be remembered for suitability in testing those aircraft?

I am sure that when B.O.A.C. flies this aircraft it will be considering civil airports such as Prestwick for its own flying.

During these tests will the problem of noise be taken into consideration?

The problem of noise is very much one of our considerations at all times.

Can the Minister give any idea of noise level on take-off and landing of the Concord compared with ordinary subsonic jet aircraft?

I think it too soon to give any precise account of that.

asked the Minister of Technology what is the latest estimate of the cost of intramural work undertaken as part of the research and development programme for the Concord project.

On the basis of an allocation of costs that must be to some extent arbitrary, about £30 million for the United Kingdom.

Is it not rather late in the day to be given this figure of further substantial escalation in the cost of Concord? Will my right hon. Friend indicate whether or not it is still hoped to recoup up to one-third of the cost by a levy on sales?

This is not an escalation, it is the grouping together of intramural and extramural costs. The second question is a separate one.

asked the Minister of Technology what facilities are available to the British Government for gaining access to the books of the firms responsible for constructing the Anglo-French Concord; and whether such facilities are equally available in the case of French firms engaged in its construction.

The British Government's contracts with the British contractors have throughout given us the right to ascertain by inspection of their books the costs actually incurred. The French Government have similar rights as regards their contractors.

Does my hon. Friend accept that there has so far been no official and precise figure given even of the number of Olympus 593 engines included in the £530 million research and development programme for the Concord? Are discussions now taking place with the French Government about the whole problem of cost-sharing and post-costing?

We are in constant touch with the French with a view to improving the procedures for the development of the Concord, and I am satisfied that the development is going extremely well.

asked the Minister of Technology what arrangements he has made with the companies building the Concord supersonic airliner for reviewing the actual cost of the project at regular intervals.

asked the Minister of Technology what inquiries have been made of the Bristol Siddeley company by the Government on the cost of the individual operations for the Concord engine.

Under the contractual arrangements for the development of Concord, the companies provide regular returns of costs in detail and these are examined by my Department.

Does my hon. Friend agree that the method of costing Concord and the huge escalation in costs which has taken place in the past, just as much as the controversial nature of the aircraft itself, are responsible for the widespread opposition there is to Concord? If we are really stuck with Concord, will he, at least, give an assurance that it will not now be possible for there to be a Concord profits scandal?

There cannot be a profits scandal because we are paying only on costs incurred.

As the Concord is a large and expensive undertaking, will my hon. Friend say how much the engines will cost, accepting that we need some reassurance on this important question?

Of the total research and development expenditure, about £180 million will be incurred on the development of the Olympus.

Will the Minister give a firm assurance that there is no intention to cancel this project at any time?

The hon. Gentleman has another Question down about the Concord, and I prefer to wait till then.

Answer.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. As my other Question on the Concord is much further down the Order Paper, will the Minister now answer the question which I have put to him?

Order. The hon. Gentleman knows that that is not a point of order.

But will—

Order. I will not be addressed on false points of order.

asked the Minister of Technology whether it is still the intention of Her Majesty's Government to see Concord brought into airline service, particularly with the British Overseas Airways Corporation.

asked the Minister of Technology (1) if he will publish a report on the economic and technical statistics of the Concord airliner;

With permission, I will answer Question No. 28 and the two Questions asked by the hon. Member for Richmond, Surrey (Mr. A. Royle).

Would the hon. Gentleman agree that statements attributed to Sir Giles Guthrie in Australia last week were unfortunate, to say the least, that all the necessary or possible information on the project has been made available to customers, that they could not expect any more at this stage, and that they are perfectly satisfied?

I am not responsible for the statement made by the Chairman of B.O.A.C. It is too early for airlines to be given full details of production aircraft.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there are reports that the Treasury has been bringing pressure to bear on his Ministry for cancellation of the project for financial reasons? Will he deny those reports and confirm that there is no question of cancelling the project for financial reasons?

I do not know anything about reports. I confirm what I said in my original Answer. We shall proceed with Concord.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the Government's reaffirmation of their continued confidence in Concord is very welcome? Will he now be able to go ahead with a production order at an early date?

There is no hold-up in the financing of production, and the development of the aircraft is going extremely well.

In the crucial stage of the development of the Concord will the hon. Gentleman direct the Chairman of B.O.A.C. not to say anything which can denigrate the project in the eyes of the world's airlines operators?

Statements by the Chairman of B.O.A.C. are the responsibility of that individual himself.

Can the Minister confirm that neither he nor any of his right hon. Friends are withholding any report which is unfavourable to Concord, and information which is not available to the House?

It is in the nature of this development that there will be a large number of internal reports on the development of the aircraft. It would be most unwise for every one of those reports to be publicised abroad.

asked the Minister of Technology if he will establish a Government civil research station in the north-east of England development area.

There is no present requirement for a new research station. In the event of any new research station being set up, the claims of development areas will be given special consideration. Industrial Research and Development Ltd. in Newcastle has some Government contracts and I hope will get more.

As my hon. Friend recognises that there is no Government research station in the North-East, may I ask whether he does not consider this detrimental to research in that region?

Yes, the imbalance of distribution of research stations is a matter which we inherited from the previous Government and which we are doing our best to redress. It is, however, plainly folly to create new research stations when they are not needed.

asked the Minister of Technology what steps he is taking to ensure that the various research associations with which he is concerned establish research stations in the North-East of England development area.

The iron making research of the British Iron and Steel Research Association has recently been concentrated in a new laboratory on Tees-side. As further developments of research associations take place the claims of development areas will be considered.

While I cannot accept the contention that further research is not needed in the North-East, may I ask whether my hon. Friend would agree that if research facilities there are not increased the region will be inevitably condemned over a lengthy period to production of a type which is steadily becoming more obsolete?

I did not say that more research was not needed in the North-East, but that we did not need a new Government research station nationally. Steps are being taken to increase research in the North-East. The B.S.R.A. research laboratory is one example of this.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that it is important for contacts between academic and industrial research that too many research centres should not be concentrated in London and the Home Counties.

Yes, I entirely agree, and closer contact between academic and industrial research is one of the purposes which the industrial liaison officer system of the Ministry was set up to achieve.

Would the hon. Gentleman not agree—[Interruption.]

Order. Back to Question Time.

Would the hon. Gentleman not agree that the purpose of his hon. Friend's Question and the Minister's reply would best be achieved by pressing ahead with a technological university in the North-East?

The hon. Member has raised a question with which he knows very well I am closely identified. It is my great regret that when the new universities were being established by the last Government, none of them was placed in a development area.

asked the Minister of Technology what progress has been made in the development of the hovertrain; and what future he envisages for this form of transport.

asked the Minister of Technology if he will now make a statement about measures for the practical development of the hovertrain in this country; and if he will state what organisation will take over this responsibility.

The National Research Development Corporation has put proposals to my right hon. Friends the Ministers of Technology and Transport and we are already in discussion with British Rail.

Is my hon. Friend aware that Japan already has plans for a 400 miles per hour hovertrain linking Osaka and Tokyo and that the United States proposes to spend 90 million dollars in the next two years on hovertrain research? Would he not agree that high-speed hovertrains are an ideal form of transport for linking British towns and cities?

Whether or not they are ideal for Britain, there is an immense potential in the world for this type of transport and this is why we are giving the matter our attention.

Will the development be given to a private company or to institutional organisations?

Hovercraft would never have been developed but for the support of public enterprise. This is likely to continue to be necessary.

Does not the hon. Gentleman recognise that if the full export potential of this very important development is to be realised, we must show that we have faith in this country first? In view of the very considerable pressure brought to bear from both sides of the House in this matter, will he give an assurance that the Government will not stint this prototype hovertrain?

The Government will undertake the most efficient development for this system with the full realisation of its export potential.

asked the Minister of Technology what figures are available to him of the numbers of graduate scientists and technologists entering British industry from Europe and the United States of America.

No definite figures are available. The best guide is the number of work permits issued by Ministry of Labour for alien immigrants holding graduate or equivalent qualification in science and technology.

Would my hon. Friend consider setting up a recruitment committee whose specific aim would be to advertise and canvass for Europeans and Americans to come to work in Britain? Would he not agree that it is high time to get something back on our training investment by establishing a brain drain in reverse?

We are considering the very proposal which my hon. Friend has made. Indeed, we have started one specific minor scheme of this type.

asked the Minister of Technology what encouragement and backing the National Research Development Corporation and other agencies are now giving to hovercraft manufacturing companies to encourage the design, construction and trials of heavy freight vehicles.

The British Hovercraft Corporation has already delivered a heavy load carrier to the Central Electricity Generating Board and is prepared to accept orders for similar vehicles from other users. The National Research Development Corporation is not directly concerned with this particular development.

The Parliamentary Secretary misinterpreted my Question. I meant ocean vehicles of 1,000 tons and over. I shall ask a further Question.

asked the Minister of Technology what percentage of the total orders placed by CERN have been placed with British firms; how this compares with British contributions to CERN; and what steps he is taking to improve the return on British investment in this field of pure basic nuclear research.

British firms have so far obtained only some 4·5 per cent. of CERN contracts, while our contribution to the organisation is 23 per cent. The return is disappointing and my Department, jointly with Science Research Council, is seeking to improve the flow of information about future tender action and to encourage British industry to improve its showing.

I fully appreciate and endorse the figures the hon. Gentleman has given, very serious as they are, but will he give an assurance that everything possible will be done to bring about a situation in which British firms can quote more competitively, as I understand that the present quotation is about 50–100 per cent. above the lowest tender?

We are hoping to help British firms to that effect.

asked the Minister of Technology if he will make a statement on the promotion of new technology in the production engineering industries; and what measure of improved efficiency he aims to achieve thereby.

I have recently launched a production engineering advisory service to help engineering firms to reduce manufacturing costs by the use of new and improved production methods. The immediate aim is to try to raise the standard of productive efficiency throughout the engineering industry to the level achieved by the best firms.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise that the Production Engineering Research Association has done very considerable pioneering work in taking round demonstration vans to various parts of the industry? Are we now to understand that the Ministry of Technology is backing this project; and, if so, to what extent financially?

We are indeed entirely responsible for this project. One million pounds has been made available to P.E.R.A. to perform this service on our behalf. It was because of the Association's great success on this thing that we thought it wise to let it do this job as agent for us.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the real obstacle to bringing about an increase in productivity in the engineering industry is that the new technology is not disseminated to the industry in a form in which it can use it to increase productivity? What is his Department now doing to improve that?

That is one of the many obstacles to higher productivity, but I think that my hon. Friend is oversimplifying matters if he says that it is the only one. In fact there are a number, including the need for better management.

asked the Minister of Technology, in order to increase the job opportunity of school leavers with scientific leanings in the Northern Region, whether he will take immediate steps to introduce Government-financed industries based on the physical sciences, such as electronics.

My right hon. Friend will take into account the regional development policy of the Government, including the development of the Northern Region, in all measures to support the growth of science-based industries. For example, the National Research Development Corporation recently announced it is giving substantial assistance to Welwyn Electric Limited at Bedlington, Northumberland, with the development and production of monolithic circuits.

This will be welcomed in the North-East, but would not my hon. Friend agree that it is high time that we had some direct Government intervention in this area to get the modern type of industry that we want established there?

Yes, I entirely agree. My hon. Friend will know that there is a wide range of direct Government intervention in this direction.

asked the Minister of Technology what information he has from European Free Trade Association and other international sources about Government help to the Swedish competitors of the United Kingdom's shipbuilding industry.

According to a report of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development in 1965, Swedish official assistance includes Government participation in one yard, Government guarantees for shipbuilding finance generally, credit facilities for export orders and fiscal relief on shipbuilding and ships' components.

Is it not a fact that, despite the relatively good competitive position of the Swedish yards, they are about to receive new help from their Government?

We have heard reports that the Swedish Government have agreed to provide improved credit facilities on condition that yards amalgamate, but we have had no confirmation of that.

asked the Minister of Technology if, in view of the repayment of £3,960,000 to Her Majesty's Government by Bristol Siddeley Engines Limited, he is satisfied that no similar cases exist; and if he will institute a full inquiry into this matter.

asked the Minister of Technology if he will reconvene the committee of inquiry set up under the chairmanship of Sir John Lang in January, 1964, so that this committee may now investigate and report on the circumstances surrounding the repayment of £3,960,000 to Her Majesty's Government by Bristol Siddeley Engines Limited.

asked the Minister of Technology why a preliminary statement was not made to the House when the excess profit of £3,960,000 made by Bristol Siddeley Engines Limited was first uncovered two years ago.

asked the Minister of Technology why, in the light of the fact that Bristol Siddeley Engines Limited admitted to the Government in December, 1964, that they had obtained excess profits on Government contracts, negotiations about the sum to be repaid by the company only started nine months ago; and whether he is satisfied that during the period concerned the excessively high quotations for the company's products were examined by more satisfactory criteria than those which were applied to the original contracts under which excessive profits had been made.

asked the Minister of Technology if he will give the value of each of the aircraft projects which Bristol Siddeley Engines Limited refused to negotiate following the Lang Committee's recommendations; and if he will state the grounds on which the refusal was made by the firm and accepted by Her Majesty's Government.

asked the Minister of Technology whether he will make a further statement on the Bristol Siddeley aero engine case.

Many of the points raised by these questions will be the subject of examination by the inquiry committee, the terms of reference and composition of which I shall announce as soon as possible. But I should make it clear that all the contracts involved were priced before the Lang Committee was even appointed.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that under Section 10 of the Ministry of Supply Act, 1939, he already has the power to order companies to produce their books and papers? Will he now make use of this power? In view of his disclosure today that he is now investigating yet another company, will he ask the House for a Ministerial Order so that we can find out where these vast amounts of public money have been going over the last few years?

I am well aware of the powers. There is another Question on the Order Paper later today on this matter. I must make it clear that I said that this case may or may not involve over-quotation.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the task of the inquiry, details of which we await with interest, must have been made much more difficult by the extraordinary behaviour of his Department on Easter Saturday? What disciplinary action has been taken against the civil servants who issued untrue and misleading statements in the name of the Minister of State?

The second point is a separate question. It would have been a little more helpful if we had had support from the other side on the need to take the action we have taken.

Does my right hon. Friend recollect that we were told last Wednesday that full information on costs was available in February of this year? Why was it necessary to wait till the eve of Parliament's rising for Easter before we heard about the matter?

There were two questions. One was the auditor's certificate, which it was thought necessary to get. Secondly, the statement was made immediately the payment was made. I said at the beginning—I think that the House will agree—that at this stage it would be better to let the inquiry look into any matters that it wishes to look into.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, pending this inquiry, there are other matters of urgent public interest affecting the whole of the aircraft industry? Is it not the case that it is only within the last few months that Bristol Siddeley's auditors, Thomson, McLintock and Co., gave the Government access to their books? Has my right hon. Friend now had access to the company's current costs for Government contracts, or is he still dealing in the dark?

As my hon. Friend knows very well, until post-costing is achieved the Government will not have access to the books.

Can my right hon. Friend give an assurance that he will publish and make available to the House, to the Public Accounts Committee, and to the independent inquiry the results of the investigation made by one of his senior engineers in March, 1965, as to the costs of the Bristol Siddeley firm—in Coventry, I believe—because, until we get that, we cannot be acquainted with the facts of the case?

All the papers relating to this will be made available to the inquiry and to the Public Accounts Committee, if it wishes.

Is it not the fact, as the right hon. Gentleman revealed earlier, that his Department is woefully short of technical costing officers? Is it not, therefore, more essential to find a profit formula which will give an incentive to efficient firms and safeguard the taxpayers than to pressurise for post-costing? Is not a profit formula more essential in the widespread interest of the taxpayer?

There are two quite separate questions. Negotiations for a profit formula can be conducted in the normal way. Whatever solution there may be to the problem does not in any way alter the Government's view that they are entitled to have equality of information and post-costing in fixed-price contracts.

asked the Minister of Technology when Sir John Lang, chairman of the Lang Committee, was first informed that Bristol Siddeley Engines Limited had drawn excessive profits from Government contracts during 1959 to 1963.

The initial report by Bristol Siddeley Engines Limited of overquotation came in a matter of days before the Lang Committee issued its second and last Report.

Will my right hon. Friend say specifically when the double payment was first detected, and how long elapsed before it was repaid?

That is a separate question. The double charging came to light as the result of an internal inquiry about nine months after the Lang Committee made its second Report. That was in about October, 1965. My hon. Friend knows the date of the settlement.

Will my right hon. Friend give an assurance that the post-costing safeguards for the public, which America already has, will be made retrospective to major Government contracts? Second, is it not clear to anyone innocent of doctrinaire dogma that the only safeguard to the public in this matter is to adopt the course advocated by the Plow-den Committee and the Economist and take the aircraft industry into public ownership?

The second point raises wider matters. It is of the nature of post-costing, like a post mortem, that it refers to what has already happened.

asked the Minister of Technology what progress is being made, with the assistance of the Shipbuilding Industry Board, towards the grouping of shipyards in general and all those on the upper Clyde in particular.

The Shipbuilding Industry Board is co-operating with firms planning shipbuilding groups, and with a working party set up by five of the larger upper Clyde shipbuilders. It is not for me to give detailed guidance to the Board on how it should carry out its task.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary ask the Board to make its report as soon as possible so as to avoid uncertainty? Will he further ask the Board to try to include all the existing yards in the group?

The Shipbuilding Industry Board will certainly deal with this matter as rapidly as possible. The Board will certainly include within its consideration all yards in the upper Clyde area.

As Geddes said that shipbuilding would expand, why is the sub-committee looking into a merger which would have the effect of leaving out at least one substantial firm which is a major employer and a modern yard?

The fact that only these five firms are involved in this committee does not imply that any specific yard to which the hon. Gentleman may be referring will be omitted from the eventual grouping.

asked the Minister of Technology, what steps he is taking to co-ordinate the work of his Department with that of the Board of Trade in relation to the reduction of aircraft noise.

The work of the two Departments is already co-ordinated. The redistribution of functions arising from the dissolution of the Ministry of Aviation has not affected the arrangements previously existing, which are being improved and strengthened.

As this matter is increasingly important and urgent and the Board of Trade must be particularly concerned with the commercial and administrative side of flying—[Interruption.]—

Order. I cannot hear the question.

—does not the Minister consider it appropriate that his Department should take some part of the initiative in this important research?

We are in close touch with the Board of Trade on the question, and I know that my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade is directly concerned about it.

asked the Minister of Technology if he will list the number of aicraft projects the original price quotations of which have been reduced as a result of the Lang Report's recommendations; and what is the total sum represented by the difference between the original and the new quotations.

When prices are negotiated, original quotations are often higher than the prices eventually agreed. It is not possible to ascribe these reductions to particular causes or to estimate how the recommendations in the Lang Report which have been implemented may have affected the course of negotiations.

How much of the extraordinary profits now to be repaid were on repetitive work? Second, will my right hon. Friend now assert the principle that there can be public audit only by public ownership?

That is a separate question. The principle of post-costing, and the reason why it is necessary in repetitive contracts, is that each new contract can be negotiated on the basis of full information for Government and firm about the out-turn of the last.

Does not all this show the great importance of our considering the introduction in this country of a contracting system similar to that operated by the United States under which any saving on the initial contract is of considerable influence in the securing of another order for the company concerned?

There is another Question down about contract procedures later, and I would rather deal with any points then.

asked the Minister of Technology whether he will take steps to shift the emphasis in Government-sponsored research and development work from Government establishments to universities and industry.

It is my intention to encourage as much of this research as possible in industry, and to see that research in Government establishments is more closely geared to industrial needs.

We welcome that reply. Will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to keep the House informed of the progress which is made?

I certainly will.

asked the Minister of Technology whether he will now review the present system of Government contracting with a view to establishing a viable and flexible system of incentive contract instead of the present adherence to fixed price.

asked the Minister of Technology what improvements he is to make in the light of recent revelations concerning the Bristol Siddeley company in liaison and communication between Ministerial cost-estimating staff and specialists in commercial firms engaged in research and development.

The improved procedures introduced in the last few years, following the Ferranti case were a factor in bringing the Bristol Siddeley case to light.

I am grateful to the Minister, but does not he agree that there has been considerable delay both in the Ministry of Aviation formerly and now in his Department in considering this issue, and that the Ferranti affair, the Bristol Siddeley affair and the losses suffered in this industry, which never have any publicity, all result from the present fixed-price system? Is it not time that he considered a sensible and realistic capital-profit ratio and that something was done to bring this matter forward?

I shall look at what the hon. Gentleman says. The fixed-price contract, which has been recommended by the Public Accounts Committee as providing incentives to the firm, with post-costing, has great merits, and some of the points which have been suggested, like the one made by the hon. Member for the Isle of Ely (Sir H. Legge-Bourke) about renegotiation, were positively opposed in the Lang Report.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that enormous advances have been made in the advancement of management techniques, which would go some way to improve communications and avoid perpetuating the errors of the previous Administration?

I hope that the new procedures as they develop will give a better and more efficient system which will be of benefit all round.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware of the very long time it is taking this Government to make progress? They have had the Lang Report for over two years. I put forward exactly these proposals in the debate on the Plowden Report on 1st February last year, and the then Minister of Aviation said, more than a year ago, that they would be looked into.

The right hon. Gentleman is not being fair. A very large number of the Lang recommendations have been implemented. In the one case, post-costing, Lang did not actually recommend it. Complements and staff have increased, and, partly as a result of these procedures, cases have come to light. A great deal has gone on in the last 2½ years.

As a previous supplementary question remained unanswered, partly because another Question is on the Order Paper, would this not be an appropriate opportunity for my right hon. Friend to answer that supplementary? Do the Government intend to proceed with the project?

With great respect to my hon. Friend, he is asking me, on two Questions about costing, a question that will later be dealt with by my hon. Friend. I do not, however, think it would be proper for me to deal with it.

asked the Minister of Technology what steps he is taking to encourage trans-national mergers of firms as distinct from national mergers, in order to establish larger European firms independent of American investment.

Some international firms involving companies in Europe and America are already developing. My Department is ready to suggest mergers that would be in the national interest. The Industrial Reorganisation Corporation is also able to operate internationally.

Will my right hon. Friend consider increasing the capital available to I.R.C. and establishing a co-ordinating committee, in view of the separate Ministries involved, to remove some of the fiscal obstacles to trans-European mergers?

Questions about the I.R.C. would have to be addressed to my right hon. Friend the First Secretary and fiscal matters to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, but I shall consider anything my hon. Friend says.

Will the Minister undertake on behalf of the Government not to take too xenophobic a view of mergers, and to look at them internationally, as the future clearly lies in that direction?

My original Answer makes it clear that we are prepared to recommend mergers in the national interest.