asked the Secretary of State for Wales what action he intends to take to implement the recommendation in the Clayton Report that passenger, parcel and mail services in the Lampeter area of Cardiganshire should be integrated.

The working group of the Passenger Transport Coordinating Committee for Wales is studying this at present and is seeking to devise a scheme which will be discussed with the interested parties in the area.

When is this working group expected to report? Second, are similar research groups to be set up for other parts of Cardiganshire and for Mid-Wales?

I understand that the report will take another month or two at least, as various interests have to be consulted. The question of other studies as suggested by my hon. Friend would be a matter for the Passenger Transport Co-ordinating Committee to decide.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will request the Welsh Economic Council to report upon the water resources of Wales.

This is a matter on which my right hon. Friend looks for advice primarily to the Welsh Committee of the Water Resources Board. My right hon. Friend would, of course, also be glad to consider any views which the Welsh Economic Council may express to him.

In view of the deep divisions of opinion on the subject of water resources in Wales and the fact that the establishment of a Welsh Water Board is declared Labour Party policy, does not my hon. Friend agree that a study of Welsh water resources, with a view to establishing a Welsh Water Board, should be proceeded with forthwith?

That is another question, as my hon. Friend well knows. The river authorities for Wales are themselves conducting surveys at the moment, and in due course the results will be presented to my right hon. Friend. He will then take the advice of the Welsh Advisory Water Committee and, if necessary, of the Economic Council as well.

In considering the much vexed question of water conservation in Wales, will the hon. Lady not overlook the importance of underground storage and, in this connection, will she and her right hon. Friend, perhaps, take advice from speleologists with some knowledge on this subject?

I have no doubt that the Welsh Advisory Water Committee has at its disposal all the scientific advice that it requires.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is the progress made by the Derelict Land Unit established to advise local authorities in Wales on the reclamation of derelict land.

The Derelict Land Unit of the Welsh Office has had discussions with 45 local authorities and has inspected 86 derelict sites covering about 2,200 acres. Detailed schemes for 17 of these sites covering 815 acres are being prepared with the advice of the unit. The Unit is also helping with outline proposals for the treatment of other sites.

How many other schemes have been submitted, in particular by the Rhondda Borough Council?

Fifteen schemes, estimated to cost £550,000, are under consideration, and four of these covering 61 acres, and to cost nearly £300,000, were submitted by the Rhondda Borough Council.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if a decision has now been reached on the appointment of a staff commission to ensure a smooth implementation of any staff transfers necessary as a result of local government reorganisation.

I must ask my hon. Friend to await the publication of the White Paper on reorganisation, which will include a reference to this subject.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply, but will he appreciate the anxiety likely to be caused among staff in local government, especially if the reorganisation proposals are a long-drawn-out affair?

We appreciate the anxieties, and all representations made to us are being borne in mind. As my hon. Friend knows, he will not have to wait long for the White Paper.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is his estimate of the expenditure that will be incurred from public funds on the Investiture of the Prince of Wales at Caernarvon.

I cannot give this estimate before an outline programme has been prepared and agreed.

Surely the Minister does not embark upon expenditure of this kind without getting an estimate? Is it really necessary at this time of severe restraint to embark upon this ridiculous little mini-Coronation? Does not the Minister think that it is quite inappropriate to have it in a castle built by Welsh slave labour under the orders of the intruder and the conqueror?

My hon. Friend will be aware that I am not embarking on anything and that Welsh people, from Anglesey to Monmouthshire, warmly welcomed the announcement when it was made. The Welsh Tourist Board is certain that the Investiture will bring substantial material benefits to Wales.

How long must we put up with this lunatic fringe of the Socialist Party?

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he is aware of the potential danger to residents of houses living at Bourneville Road, Abertillery, by the gradual movement of the mountain slipping in the near vicinity; and if he will take action to deal with this matter.

Yes, Sir. At my suggestion the Abertillery Urban District Council has engaged consultants to advise it. The appropriate action will then be considered by the Council and by my right hon. Friend.

I am grateful for that information. If some action proves necessary can the Government give a grant for any costs that will be incurred?

This is not a derelict land situation and the provisions of the Industrial Development Act therefore do not apply. Any assistance would need to be in the form of an ex-gratia payment and my right hon. Friend will consider this matter when he has a report of the cost of any further necessary works.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he can announce the completion date of the new roadway now being constructed on the A469 between Newbridge and Crumlin in the Abertillery constituency.

Monmouthshire County Council is the highway authority for this road. I understand from it that good progress has been made and it is hoped that work will be completed before the scheduled contract date of August, 1968.

I thank my hon. Friend.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he is aware that the Hampshire school building programme for 1968–69 does not include a Roman Catholic junior and infants school for the Andover area, even though it had Class 1 priority; and whether he will reconsider his decision in this matter.

A new denominational school can be included in a building programme only if it would provide places for children who would otherwise be out of school. The proposal for the new Roman Catholic primary school in Andover did not fall within that category. We shall, however, consider this project again in the submission for the 1969–70 school building programme.

Is the Minister aware that her Answer will cause some concern to those who value the right of parental choice and see a great value in religious education? Nevertheless, there is considerable gratitude for her undertaking to look at this again in relation to 1969–70.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what proposals he now has to encourage more graduates to enter the teaching profession, particularly in view of the rapid growth and development of comprehensive education.

The Department will continue to publish booklets and advertisements giving information about careers in education. These are now often supplemented by local efforts to provide other opportunities for university students to discover more about teaching. We are considering a number of suggestions for extending these opportunities.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply, but is he aware that the number of university science places that were not filled last year—1,600, I understand—is a matter of great concern when comprehensive schools are so short of good science and mathematics teachers? Does he not think it a good idea to enlist the help of the vice-chancellors of the universities to carry out more active propaganda for the teaching profession among their students and to persuade the students to train as teachers, rather than that the vice-chancellors should write letters to the Press putting forward solutions that are not acceptable either to us or to good teachers?

That is an excellent suggestion, and it is fully supported by my right hon. Friend and myself. There is a very good booklet specially prepared by my Department for university students and graduates describing the teacher's work, training courses, salaries and career prospects. It has had a very wide circulation in universities and colleges.

Is my hon. Friend aware that it is not lack of information about the teaching profession that is responsible but the fact that too many people are aware of the inadequate salaries paid to teachers these days? The position will not be rectified until a more realistic salary structure is implemented.

That is another question.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what was the proportion of mathematics and science graduates who took up teaching posts in maintained schools in each year from 1960 to 1966, inclusive.

Since the Answer contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, publish it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Would the right hon. Gentleman agree that there is a good deal of concern about the number of mathematics and science teachers coming forward? Will he confirm that he will bear in mind the importance of avoiding any dilution of sixth-form studies in these subjects which may have a considerable bearing on the number of prospective teachers in the future?

I agree that there is concern, which I strongly share. It is an intractable problem, as everybody knows, but one to which no one has found an easy or simple answer.

The size of sixth forms is a matter to which we must pay the greatest possible attention. Whether our efforts in this direction are invariably helped by correspondence in The Times is a different matter, but I am fully conscious of the need for preserving and increasing the standards of sixth-form teaching.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will review his definition of basic needs for the purpose of allocating priority to school building projects; and if he will make a statement.

No, Sir. I must continue to give first priority to school building required to ensure that there are enough school places for children in areas of growing population or new housing.

Is the Minister aware that his recent drastic cuts in the school building programme caused bitter disappointment in Birmingham, that rapid progress in housing development is bringing about a great movement of population within the city and that the new housing estates created are just as much in need of new

On the last and most important point, does that not show the great need for the right hon. Gentleman, where necessary, to be extremely severe with plans for secondary reorganisation which could only have the effect of diluting skilled sixth-form staff in an educationally undesirable way?

No. That proposition cannot be maintained by anybody who read that interesting letter in The Times of today by a sixth-form teacher. It ignores completely the fact that a large number of two and three form entry grammar schools at the moment have small sixth forms and comprehensive schools often have larger sixth forms. It ignores the fact that in some parts of the country there is a trend towards sixth-form colleges. However, there is no ground for the right hon. Gentleman saying that almost necessarily as a result of reorganisation there will be this dilution, or that it is a universal danger. I take the opposite view.

Following is the information:

schools as similar estates outside the city? Will he bear this factor in mind and bring forward the new review, which I think he has promised, as rapidly as possible?

I am not aware of any cut in Birmingham's school building programme. What occurred, which is not unique under any Government, was a cut in what Birmingham asked for. That is a rather different matter. I am very conscious of the movement of population within Birmingham, but the real problem arising in Birmingham and almost all our large cities is that they are areas with static if not declining populations. This raises a problem in connection with school building, when the bulk of the programme must go to cope with what are called basic needs.

Will the Minister bear in mind that in addition to the basic needs definition, there are problems arising out of questions of amalgamation where Boundary Commission recommendations resulted in changes? Would he also take into account the reorganisation and the question of adequately supporting school populations in areas affected by such measures?

Yes, Sir. We certainly take these matters into account, as we take into account all the factors which create an altered distribution of the demand for school building, and in the course of this examination there are bound to be areas which are disappointed.

Is it not a fact that in 1964 Birmingham was allocated about £¾ million for school improvements? Is it not a rather serious matter that absolutely no money should have been allocated this time for secondary improvements, bearing in mind the rising school leaving age in the 1970s and that there is a large number of senior elementary schools, in effect, which very badly need replacement?

The right hon. Gentleman quoted a figure of £¾ million for 1964–65. If we take the total allocation of school building resources to Birmingham this year, including the allocation for raising the school leaving age, the figure comes to just under £1 million. Therefore,

the comparison is by no means unfavourable.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is the cost of taking each subject of the "O" level examination and Certificate of Secondary Education examination, respectively.

As the Answer contains a number of figures, I will with permission circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Is it true that the difference is 8s. 6d. and 30s. respectively, or thereabouts? If my figures are correct, why is there such an enormous difference between the cost of these two examinations?

The range for G.C.E. subject entry fees is 10s. to 15s. For C.S.E. the subject entry fee ranges from 15s. to 45s. In addition, some G.C.E. boards and some C.S.E. boards ask for an entrance fee. The reason for the difference between G.C.E. and C.S.E. fees is that a smaller number of people up to the present time is going forward for C.S.E. and there are three modes of examination. This puts a heavier burden on each individual examiner, and more of them are required.

Following is the information:

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what guidance he has sent to local education authorities to assist schoolteachers to deal with the misuse of dangerous drugs.

The general pamphlet on Health Education is being revised and will contain a section on drugs: meanwhile the Department's medical officers are in close touch with medical officers of health, particularly in those areas where drug taking is suspected.

Surely there is a case for some urgency here? How did it come about that the Inner London Education Authority circulated all its schools with advice the other day? Was that done after consultation with the Secretary of State?

We certainly knew what the Inner London Education Authority was doing in its area, and I have copies of its pamphlets here. There was consultation. As I think I said in an answer to the right hon. Gentleman on an earlier occasion, the Department's general pamphlet on the school health service and related matters is under fundamental review and we hope to get it out very soon. It will include advice on drug taking.

Is my hon. Friend aware that he gave precisely the same reply to me last 10th November—seven months ago? Is not this pamphlet prepared by his Department yet? Is he aware that teachers very badly need guidance on this very urgent problem, and will he see that his Department gets a move on? It is too long to wait.

I am aware, and am as equally concerned as my hon. Friend about it, of the delay in re-issuing this pamphlet, which was last issued in 1957. Drug taking, however, is a very small portion of the whole and it is very important that the pamphlet as a whole should be reviewed in accordance with modern knowledge and techniques.

On a point of order. Owing to the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will state the capital allocation for building new schools or major extensions to existing schools made available to the Norfolk County Council for the years 1960–61 to 1967–68.

The total for the eight years is £3,857,000.

I thank my hon. Friend for her reply, but may I ask whether she is aware that conditions in a number of primary schools in Norfolk are extremely unsatisfactory, that some are overcrowded, that many lack modern sanitary facilities and that in North Walsham it is unlikely that all the school children reaching 5 years of age at the end of the year will be able to be accommodated because of the shortage of places?

The difficulty arises mainly because Norfolk has little basic need and mostly requires improvements. The whole of the 1968–69 major building programme has been given up to primary projects only. As to the last part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, children who have reached the age of 5 but have not yet reached the term after their fifth birthday, are taken on at the discretion of the headmaster if he has places. It is not a statutory requirement.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will give an undertaking that the present charge to parents for school meals will not be abolished.

I am still considering this matter in the light of the Report of the Estimates Committee.

On 13th April the right hon. Gentleman said that there would be no early answer on the review of school meal prices and he has now reiterated it. Is it not time that a decision was taken, bearing in mind the steadily increasing cost both to ratepayers and taxpayers and the money needed for higher educational projects?

As the hon. Gentleman will know from listening to the very varied range of supplementary questions always asked on this subject, it is a very complicated and controversial matter. It would not be right to hurry a decision. I am pursuing this investigation with what I hope is reasonable expedition but without undue haste.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that, whilst the Estimates Committee made recommendations, they were based exclusively on the economic and financial arguments concerned and did not and could not relate to the very important—indeed, more important—social implications of any change of policy?

I entirely agree. If one viewed this simply as a financial or economic matter it might be a plain case for one to make up one's mind, but my hon. Friend is right in saying that a large number of social and welfare considerations come into it which would make it foolish to rush a decision.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what discussions he has had about the Social and Physical Training Grants Regulations, 1959; and if he will make a statement.

New regulations are at present being drafted and will, in due course, be the subject of discussion with the local authority associations and other interested bodies in the usual way.

Will my hon. Friend take care to see that Inverliever Lodge is covered by the regulations as well as some of the wealthy private golf clubs?

We do not give financial support to wealthy private golf clubs. As far as Inverliever Lodge is concerned, I am happy to say that the undertaking I gave to discuss this within the Government, particularly with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland, is being implemented.

How soon does the hon. Gentleman hope that a statement may be made to the House or a Question answered on the subject?

I am aware of the concern but I do not think I can give a date.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what representations have been made to him by the Inner London Education Authority on the reorganisation of secondary schools; and if he will make a statement.

I received the Inner London Education Authority's reorganisation plan on 17th March of this year. On 10th May the Authority informed me that it wished to withdraw the plan for further consideration.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Conservative-controlled G.L.C. has recently sent out a statement of Conservative policy on comprehensive schools, using teachers and schools for circulation? What steps is he taking to deal with this invasion of the schools by politics?

I saw a copy of that letter and, while one may have one's personal view about some of the phraseology and the references to Conservative Party policy, I do not think it contained anything to give me any ground for intervention.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will publish the results so far of research by the Clinical Psychiatry Research Unit of the Medical Research Council on the evaluation of a community mental health service, in which factors determining admission to mental hospital, the effects on the family of caring for mentally-ill patients and the outcome after two years are being assessed.

No, Sir. A number of papers on the study of community care in mental illness currently being undertaken by the Council's Clinical Psychiatry Research Unit, with the co-operation of the South West Metropolitan Regional Hospital Board, has already been published in the medical and scientific journals and further results will be given in this way in due course.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that a number of bodies are eagerly awaiting the results of that very important piece of research and that some have postponed decisions on projects of their own pending consideration of the results? Will he undertake to assist the M.R.C. in disseminating these results as soon as possible when they become available?

This is a continuing study in a very important field. A number of valuable papers have been published in the accepted journals. I will look into the point about possibly speeding up publication.

As 47 per cent. of our hospital beds are occupied by psychiatric cases, what proportion of the M.R.C. is devoted to investigating mental health?

About 8.4 per cent. of the M.R.C.'s total budget is devoted to the study of mental illness and related psychological studies.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is the budget for 1967–68 of the neuropsychiatric research unit of the Medical Research Council.

Direct recurrent expenditure is expected to be approximately £88,000.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the work of this unit under the direction of Dr. Richter is arousing great interest in this country and overseas? Will he agree that this week, Mental Health Week, would be a happy occasion on which to enable it to expand its work?

Any worth-while proposal from this unit or any other will be carefully considered by the M.R.C. I am aware of the value of the work of this unit and the hon. Gentleman will be glad to know that, since 1963–64, the recurrent grant to it has jumped from £56,000 to £88,000.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will now take steps to expedite the inspection of all those private fee-paying schools not recognised as efficient; and if, meanwhile, he will publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT the names of all such schools.

Frequency of inspection is one of the matters which my hon. Friend the Minister of State is examining in her inquiry into standards at independent schools. There are over 1,700 schools on the Register of Independent schools which, as required by the Education Act, 1944, is open to public inspection at the offices of my Department.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that the recent notorious case caused a great deal of disquiet in the country and that it is in the interests of the public, the parents and the children that the names of the schools recognised as inefficient should be widely known to the public? A list of these schools published in HANSARD and the Press would be of enormous help in safeguarding children and parents from the kind of abuse so evident in that case.

The case to which my hon. Friend refers caused a great deal of public disquiet and it was for that reason that I asked my hon. Friend the Minister of State to conduct an urgent inquiry into the whole question of our powers in respect of independent schools. Until the inquiry is complete, I would not like to go further into the merits of the issue. There is a register of schools not recognised as efficient and I repeat that that register is open to inspection at any time in the offices of my Department.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider whether he can devise a system of distinguishing between those schools which fail to obtain recognition on the ground of quality of education and those which fail to obtain it on grounds of certain building deficiencies? In the latter case, could not he send them a schedule of deficiencies so that if these were corrected they would be entitled to recognition?

I am obliged for that suggestion. The whole question of the distinction between registration on the one hand and recognition as efficient on the other is a central point of the inquiry.

I share the concern about the case which has recently attracted attention and I endorse the inquiry which the right hon. Gentleman has set on foot. However, is it not decidedly unfair to condemn all registered but unrecognised schools as inefficient, and do they not include a number of schools which are trying hard to reach the standards required for recognition, including a number of relatively new schools?

I do not think that anybody has made blanket condemnation of all of them. Even before this recent case brought the whole matter to public attention, it was in the minds of people concerned with education, if only as a result of what the Plowden Council had said on the subject of private schools in its Report Without blanket condemnation, there is something which we should look at.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what steps he intends to take to increase control over private fee-paying schools.

This whole matter is now being considered by my hon. Friend the Minister of State in her current inquiry into standards in independent schools.

How long will that inquiry take? Meanwhile, will parents have to run the risks which have been run in schools which were the subject of the recent report? Will the inquiry involve some amending of Part III of the 1944 Education Act?

I hope that the inquiry will be concluded in a matter of weeks. Whether legislation will involve amending the 1944 Act is an open question. It is possible that we shall conclude that it should. In that case we shall hope to do so with the co-operation of the House.

Has the right hon. Gentleman ever thought of leaving alone those private fee-paying schools which conform with Part III?

My Department thinks of everything, naturally. However, I am not sure that this is the moment at which that solution would appear to be the most attractive to public opinion.

Could my right hon. Friend say what is the cost to the public sector of education of defending ordinary people against the possible mischievous misdemeanours and crimes of the private sector?

Without notice I cannot say what the cost might be, but I would not think that cost was necessarily the most relevant factor in the present case.

Is it not one of the difficulties that private schools cannot reasonably be asked to set standards of buildings higher than that asked of State schools when, for example, in Dorset, in a number of State schools there is no inside lavatory?

Most of us would be content if the whole of the private sector came up to the standards, whether in terms of building or other ways, which succesive Governments have laid down for the maintained sector.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what representations he has had from the National Association of Schoolmasters concerning the proposal to raise the school leaving age to sixteen years during 1970–71; what reply has been sent; and if he will make a statement.

The Association sent me a resolution, passed by its Annual Conference last year, calling upon the Government to delay the raising of the school leaving age. I subsequently arranged for a deputation from the Association to be received and they put their case orally. No written reply was called for.

Does not this incident confirm that there is a growing volume of responsible opinion which argues that the raising of the school leaving age must take deferred priority in the use of any resources likely to be made available for education?

No. My view is that there is an overwhelming majority of responsible educational opinion which thinks, on the contrary, that on the widest educational and social grounds this is a major piece of reform.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that, particularly in the North, the only way in which to get this positive educational advance of persuading people to stay on at school is by raising the school leaving age to 16?

Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that a misleading interpretation has been put on the Economist Intelligence Unit Report commissioned by the N.A.S. and that this report shows that the shortage of full-time teachers, after allowing for part-timers, in 1971 will in fact be 36,000 teachers and not 69,000?

I am glad that the right hon. Gentleman has raised that matter, which is rather far off this Question. However, I am glad he did, because the headlines which this report has aroused are all extremely misleading. They wholly exclude the force of part-time teachers who contribute an enormous amount to our schools now. If part-time teachers are taken into account the picture is much less gloomy than the headlines have suggested.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what reply he has received from the Manchester Corporation concerning the proposed plans for the St. Anthonies' area which have imposed planning blight upon adjacent householders.

None, Sir. But I understand that the matter is under active consideration by the authority.

Is my hon. Friend aware that a recommendation would relieve a large number of my constituents from their plight of not being able to sell their houses, and will she urge on the education committee the desirability of freeing them from the limbo in which they have been placed by the education committee's decision?

We are aware of the difficulties which planning blight causes and I am glad to say that the building sub-committee of the authority recommended rescinding the council's recommendation on 6th June.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will set up an inquiry into the place of detention centres within the United Kingdom penal system and the methods of correction employed in them.

My right hon. Friend is considering whether it would now be appropriate to review this issue, so far as England and Wales are concerned, and how this would best be done.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the grave misgivings of many hon. Members about the efficacy and purpose of these institutions? When undertaking the survey, will she bear in mind what she hopes to achieve by these institutions from a penal and reformative point of view?

I realise there are two points of view about detention centres. I have often been pressed by hon. Members on both sides of the House to provide more detention centre places, and the courts have been asking for more. However, we feel that at this time it would be appropriate to look at detention centres as they are operating to see whether there could be some improvement.

Does not the right hon. Lady agree, that, contrary to what the hon. Member for Manchester, Blackley (Mr. Rose) has said, many people consider detention centres to be about the most successful part of our present penal system? Does she agree that the real trouble is that the courts have places available for only under 50 per cent. of the people they wish to send there? What is the right hon. Lady doing about providing more detention centres?

This illustrates what I said about there being two points of view, but we shall take into consideration every point of view in the review which is to take place. However, if we decide to have something else instead of detention centres it would have to be some establishment which would cater for those youths who required short-term treatment of some kind.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in the opinion of a great number of social workers in this country detention centres rely far too much on obsolete barrack-square methods and far too little on retraining and re-education and proper work training?

These are all things which will be taken into consideration, but it must be remembered that the boys who are sent to the detention centres are there for only three or six months. There is a limit to what can be done in such a short time.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department why the Hull Girls' Remand Home refused to take the girl mentioned in the case, details of which have been sent to his right hon. Friend by the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, North, unless she was already admitted to an approved school and sent to the Hull Girls' Remand Home whilst awaiting allocation for an approved school.

This remand home is not at present available to the courts. Because of staff shortages it has been temporarily closed by the local authority.

Is not a degree of flexibility needed in this type of case, so that a young girl is not sent back to the scene where she was in grave moral danger?

As I have explained to my hon. Friend before, there was confusion in this girl's case in the courts. We are always pleased when local authorities decide to have more remand home accommodation. My hon. Friend will be pleased to know that I was able to open a new one in Oxfordshire only yesterday, and I hope that the Hull authority will be able to proceed with the new one which it is proposing in the near future.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department why, in the case, details of which have been sent to his right hon. Friend by the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, North, the nearest remand centre with places available was at Durham.

The need for remand centres for girls is small compared with the need for remand homes. Each centre therefore serves a large area of England and Wales, the girls' centre at Low Newton, County Durham, being available to the Hull courts.

Can the right hon. Gentleman explain why a girl suitable for a remand home should have been recommended for being sent to a remand centre? Is she aware that there is such a serious lack of places in remand homes in Hull and the East Riding that in one case those concerned with placing a 12-year-old girl travelled 4,258 miles?

There is some confusion between remand homes and remand centres. The 16-year-old girl ought never to have been considered as being appropriate to be sent to a remand centre, which are usually for girls of 17 to 21. A girl under 17 can be sent to a remand centre only if the court deems that she is too unruly or depraved for a remand home. That was not so in this case and a mistake was made when it was suggested that she should go to a remand centre.

On a point of order. I said that it was 4,258 miles. To get the record straight, I should explain that it was 4,278.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what are the statutory and other regulations which ensure that doctors supply heroin and other drug addicts under treatment with only sufficient supplies for their immediate and necessary needs.

The quantity of drug supplied is a matter of professional judgment, and is not prescribed by regulation.

Has the right hon. Lady's attention been drawn to the teach-in at Manchester on 29th April when it was stated that the supply of heroin was in the hands of six doctors in Harley Street and that people were coming here from Canada and America and getting 1,000 tablets a time, and at which one of the eminent consultants present went on to state that the practice by which a doctor prescribed 600,000 heroin tablets a year could not be justified to his conscience?

The hon. Gentleman is a little behind about what is happening in the House. The whole purpose of the Drugs Bill, which has gone through this House and is now in the House of Lords, is to prevent this kind of thing from happening.

But—

Order. I did not call the hon. Gentleman again.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is some anxiety, which is supported by recent evidence, about an increasing black market in heroin, including powdered heroin, because of the reduction in the amount of prescribing by individual doctors?

We are hoping that when we open the treatment centres, where addicts will be able to get their supplies, that position will be radically changed.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what regulations control the prescription of heroin and other dangerous drugs to addicts entering Great Britain from overseas, and if he is notified of the presence of these people and the length of their intended stay.

There is no special provision for addicts from overseas. The system of compulsory notification included in the Dangerous Drugs Bill, at present before Parliament, will apply to addicts from overseas as to those resident here. The fact of addiction is not normally known when addicts from overseas are admitted.

Can the right hon. Lady give an undertaking that the new regulations will be implemented before the end of this year?

We have to wait until the Bill has gone through another place. It will then be for my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary and my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health to produce the regulations. I would not like to give an exact date, but I am sure that they will not be unduly delayed.

Can the right hon. Lady state with any degree of accuracy how long after the Royal Assent it will be before treatement centres will be in operation on the ground?

I could not answer that question without notice. As the right hon. and learned Gentleman knows, this is particularly a matter for my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health.

asked the Prime Minister when he expects the Anglo-Soviet Consultative Committee, mentioned in his communiqué after Mr. Kosygin's visit, to be established.

We are discussing with the Soviet Government the terms of reference for the Committee; and as soon as these have been agreed we shall invite suitably qualified persons to join the British Group. When the Russians have done the same on their side the way will be clear for the two groups to prepare their first meeting together.

Does not the Prime Minister recall saying after Mr. Kosygin's visit that we should not lose the momentum of the visit? It is now 17 weeks ago, which is rather a long time. What has been the delay in the formation of this Committee?

We have not lost momentum, particularly on the trade side and the technological side, since that visit. We submitted our draft of the arrangements for the Committee to the Soviet Government which needed a little time to study them and which has only recently given us its views and some suggestions. These are now being considered.

Can the Prime Minister tell the House what use is being made of the teletype communication line which it was agreed should be set up after Mr. Kosygin's visit?

The right hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well that it has not yet been installed, but he will be very happy to know that communications between Mr. Kosygin and myself on a personal basis have been continuing in a very intense way this week through the Ambassador. We have been in very close touch at every turn and development during the Middle East crisis.

The right hon. Gentleman will remember that the communiqué stated: The establishment of the Anglo-Soviet Consultative Committee"—

Order. The hon. Gentleman cannot quote while asking a supplementary question.

The communiqué says that the Committee should be representative of almost every activity except that of the politician. As politics play a major part in Moscow, will the right hon. Gentleman see that this Consultative Committee includes back benchers of both Houses to meet with their opposite numbers from the Supreme Soviet?

I should be surprised if there were not full recognition of political realities in the appointment of the group, but it is important to avoid cutting across the work of the Anglo-Soviet Parliamentary Committee and relations between this Parliament and the Supreme Soviet, work in which the hon. Gentleman himself has played a distinguished part. This new proposal should not cut across that very valuable work.

Can the Prime Minister say what has held up the installation of the line, to which he gave such importance and prominence on television after the meeting?

There have been technical discussions between the two sides and there are certain technical difficulties to be overcome, but there is no blockage of any agreement to set it up. We have this week again been discussing the urgency of establishing it.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of Her Majesty's Government's decision to apply for membership of the European Economic Community, he will invite the Heads of Government of the European Economic Community member countries to meet with him to consider the scope for a European nuclear consultative committee to advise on the use and targeting of the British and French nuclear deterrents.

No, Sir.

Would not the Prime Minister agree that some such proposal as this might do something to reestablish the credibility of the Government's approach to Europe? Will he consider discussing this with President de Gaulle when they meet at Rambouillet later this month?

There is no lack of credibility about our approach to membership of E.E.C. We believe that co-ordination of such matters as are referred to in the Question, the use and targeting of nuclear weapons, are appropriately matters for N.A.T.O. and that adequate machinery exists for that purpose. New developments in that machinery have clearly got off to a good start. However, having said that, I believe that there is a very great possibility for co-operation between ourselves and the Six and others in Western Europe in the peaceful use of atomic energy and, as I have said many times, for making Euratom much more of a reality.

Is the Prime Minister therefore saying that he refuses to discuss these matters of defence with President de Gaulle at Rambouillet, or wherever it is they are to meet?

The talks with President de Gaulle, which will not be at Rambouillet, will range over every aspect of world affairs because, as I said to him at Bonn, in January we inevitably concentrated our discussions on Common Market problems. Obviously, we shall talk about defence and about N.A.T.O. and about all world problems in which we have a common interest. However, as I have made clear before, we do not regard a bilateral military nuclear defence deal as part of, or related to, our application to join the Common Market.

I must press the Prime Minister on this. The President of France at his last Press conference specifically mentioned the question of defence, as between Britain and the Six and France, as one of the matters governing our entry to the Community. Even though I agree that this was not contained in the report in The Times, it was in the report of the Press conference. Is it not therefore a matter which the Prime Minister has to raise specifically with the President of France in these talks?

Certainly defence will be discussed. I have made that plain. It is impossible for two important Powers like Britain and France to consider their joint interests in world affairs over the whole world as well as Europe without talking about defence. What I said we should not be discussing in the Common Market context were the proposals, which I think the right hon. Gentleman has cherished, for pooling all the Anglo-French deterrents or any nuclear military deal as part of the application for membership of the Common Market. Defence in its widest sense will be discussed. President de Gaulle was right in what he said in the full report. What happened in defence immediately before Rambouillet had a decisive effect on the right hon. Gentleman's own application.

asked the Prime Minister if he will merge the Ministry of Commonwealth Affairs with the Ministry of Overseas Development.

No, Sir.

Does not this Ministry already contain more Ministers than ever before, and why should Overseas Development of all Ministries bear so needlessly a top-heavy burden?

In dissociating the aid and development Department from the Commonwealth Office, which I think was wise, we followed the practice of our predecessors. Though the Ministry of Overseas Development is now organised on somewhat different lines, it is based on the same principles of separation. The hon. Gentleman will recognise that the Overseas Development Ministry is responsible for aid and development to non-Commonwealth countries, and is also responsible for our relationship with most of the principal international and technical assistance organisations, including U.N.E.S.C.O. and others.

Arising out of my right hon. Friend's reply, would he not agree that there are many non-Commonwealth countries where the need and desire for British technical and financial assistance is just as great as in Commonwealth countries, and some of them where the conditions for harmonious and uninhibited co-operation are much better?

There are very many cases where we would like to be able to give more help. It is a question of the limits, of what is available, and we believe that our present deployment. which is mainly, though not exclusively. concentrated on Commonwealth countries, shows about the right balance of priorities.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will invite the Prime Ministers of all the countries affected by British troop withdrawals east of Suez, to a conference, so that such withdrawals may take place smoothly.

No. Adequate arrangements already exist for any consultation that may be needed with the Governments concerned.

Does the Prime Minister realise that recent events have proved once and for all the utter futility of these bases and that they were unable to keep the Gulf of Aqaba open, to stop the fighting, or to prevent the Arab countries cutting off our oil supplies? Does he further realise that his vainglorious insistence on maintaining them is the principal reason for our economic difficulties in repairing the balance of payments crisis—

Order. If the hon. Member for Bosworth would put his question briefly—

Would the Prime Minister now come to his senses and get rid of these bases so that we can attend to our own affairs, which are not in a very good state, instead of trying to run everyone else's?

My hon. Friend asked me if I am aware of a number of suggestions. I have, of course, read his article in the Daily Mirror this morning, which was expressed in the same colourful but irrelevant language as his supplementary questions. The House has many times discussed this on defence debates. I am sorry that we have not convinced my hon. Friend about the Tightness of the Government's policy, but he will no doubt express himself on this from time to time.

Will there be a reappraisal of our defence policy east of Suez when the present war in the Middle East is over and in the light of events which have taken place in the course of it?

My right hon. friends and I have made clear that there has been continuing consideration of this problem and, on the point which comes up very much in the original Question of my hon. Friend, this will be discussed with the Prime Minister of Australia next week. The Deputy Prime Minister of New Zealand is here now, the Prime Ministers of Singapore and Malaysia are coming. Shortly we shall have had discussions with all of them, as we have recently had in Washington, and then the position will made clear to the House.