asked the Secretary of State for Wales what proposals he has for consulting local planning authorities in Wales about the proposals contained in the White Paper on Town and Country Planning, Command Paper No. 3333; and if he will make a statement.

In accordance with paragraph 50 of the White Paper, my right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government and I are consulting the local authority associations about the proposals in the White Paper. We shall be considering their views on how the aims of the Paper can best be achieved. In addition, as indicated in paragraph 21 of the Paper, I shall, in due course, be consulting local planning authorities in Wales about the introduction of the new development plan system.

Is my right hon. Friend in a position to say what planning authorities in Wales will be first selected to operate the new system?

I shall first need to consult the local planning authorities and be satisfied that those selected have the necessary staff and resources.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will satisfy himself that the Pontypridd and Ystradyfodwg Joint Sewerage Board proposed new trunk sewerage and treatment scheme is designed for a capacity to provide for the industrial effluent from the Treforest Industrial Estate being emptied into the sewer; and if he will make a statement.

I understand that the Board is preparing a scheme but that it is not yet ready to submit its application to my right hon. Friend for loan sanction. When this application is received, the proposals will be examined to ensure that the scheme is adequate to meet the present and future needs of the drainage area, including the Industrial Estate.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the present annoyance to industrialists on the Estate is such as to be an industrial hazard to the expansion required in this area?

Yes, Sir. We are aware of this situation, but before loan sanction is issued my right hon. Friend will need to be satisfied that there is sufficient spare capacity to deal with future development, including development of the Industrial Estate.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will give an assurance that tenders for Stage I of the improvement of the Cardiff—Merthyr trunk road, A470 will be invited it October or November next; and if he will make a statement.

Land acquisition is well advanced and my right hon. Friend expects to publish in August a compulsory purchase order for land not yet acquired. Subject to any objections received, he should be able to invite tenders before the end of the year.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what action he proposes to halt the continued pollution of the Bristol Channel by untreated sewage and industrial waste from Welsh local authorities and industrial undertakings.

Action on this is primarily the responsibility of the relevant local sewage disposal authorities. In addition, most of the discharges are into waters coming under the control of the river authorities and must therefore comply with conditions prescribed by them. My right hon. Friend is prepared to con-cider sympathetically applications for loan sanction for any schemes designed to improve present arrangements.

While thanking my hon. Friend for that helpful reply, may I remind him that Welsh experts have recently claimed that, if this problem is not tackled soon, the position in the Channel could become very dangerous to health? Does he accept this view and does he agree that there could be a case for tackling this problem on an overall Severnside-Channel basis?

I could not entirely accept that view, but I assure my hon. Friend that we appreciate the problem. It is the Government's view that there is no case for spending money on costly treatment works when simple treatment can take place without harming the various interests involved. My right hon. Friend will continue to press individual sewage disposal authorities to take action wherever he believes that better disposal methods are needed.

While thanking the Under-Secretary for the assurance he gave about loan sanction, may I ask him to accept that the scale of work in some cases would impose a great burden on authorities, particularly those on the sea coast, and, to that extent, is there any hope of some assistance being given to these authorities?

I assure the hon. Gentleman that every assistance possible will be given as a result of consideration given to reports submitted to my right hon. Friend.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will give authorisation for repairs and reinstatement to commence at 39 Brynglas Road, Newport, which suffered damage as a result of the M4 roadworks.

I understand that the owners are prepared to accept compensation and to make their own arrangements for carrying out the work.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply, but, as there is nearly £700 worth of damage to this one property alone, does he not feel that the matter should now receive the urgent treatment that it deserves, having in mind the longstanding suffering in this area due to these road developments?

I assure my hon. Friend that the legal negotiations in these matters are very complex, as he is aware, but negotiations for compensation for damage caused to property by the road works are already well advanced.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many of those engaged in compiling the recent White Paper on Local Government in Wales had practical experience as elected local government representatives.

The interdepartmental Working Party which helped me in my examination of the functions and boundaries of Welsh local authorities had the benefit of the confidential advice of over thirty officers and members of Welsh local authorities whose names were suggested by the local authority associations for their knowledge and experience of local government in Wales.

Is there good reason for the Secretary of State's not giving the names of those persons who have had local government experience as elected representatives of the people? Why conceal them?

My hon. Friend will be aware that in this case advice was given on a confidential basis, but not only did I have the advice of my Working Party and, through it, the members to whom I have referred, but I was also fortunate enough to have the benefit of the advice and evidence of local authority representatives who have been giving advice and evidence on these matters for over 20 years.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he expects to implement the proposals in the White Paper on Local Government in Wales.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what timetable he envisages for the implementation of the proposals in his recent White Paper on Local Government in Wales.

The first stage will be the consultation with local authorities and local authority associations which will, I hope, be completed by the end of the year. Work on the necessary legislation which will inevitably take some time will follow immediately. The Welsh Council, which will not require special legislation, will be set up next year at the end of the three-year term of office of the present Welsh Economic Council.

In view of that and in order to prevent further delay, would my right hon. Friend consider advising local authorities how best they can consider existing anomalies which are unaffected by the present proposals?

I shall certainly be prepared to receive representations from local authorities on these matters.

Can my right hon. Friend indicate how flexible he is likely to be in relation to the proposals and whether, for example, he expects radical changes in these proposals as a result of the Royal Commission on English Local Government?

I am not contemplating any fundamental changes, but I certainly would be prepared to listen to any well-reasoned case.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what arrangements he has made to receive the views of Welsh local authorities on the White Paper on Local Government in Wales.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if, in view of the changes advocated in Command Paper No. 3340 on Local Government in Wales, he will extend the time available to local authorities and other bodies and persons to make representations.

I have asked all Welsh local authorities to send me their views in writing by the end of September, but in the light of representations made I am giving further consideration to this. I am also arranging to get the views of the local authority associations.

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for that Answer, because September was too early as local authorities have to have holidays just as much as we do.

In assessing the position, will the Secretary of State take account of the fact that many local authorities have rendered considerable service to parts of Wales and they should have time to present their case when they differ from the proposals?

I certainly do not wish to press local authorities to do anything unreasonable. By the end of the year we hope to have all the information.

When my right hon. Friend receives the views of local authorities, will he make sure that they are the views of elected representatives and not of paid officials protecting their vested interests?

My hon. Friend must leave that to my judgment. I know local authorities in Wales reasonably well.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales why he proposes to appoint an unelected and unrepresentative national advisory Council for Wales with wide, and possibly wider powers, thus depriving the peoples of Wales of their democratic rights.

Nothing I have proposed will deprive the people of Wales of their democratic rights, which will continue to be preserved through Parliamentary representation and through their elected local authorities. The new Welsh Council will have advisory, not executive, functions.

Is not this national advisory Council wholly unelected and unrepresentative? Why should this happen in a country with such a splendid record of local government?

I am certainly prepared to pay a tribute to all those who have worked in local government in Wales, but this has nothing to do with local government as such.

Will the Welsh Committee of the Arts Council, the Welsh Tourist Board and the Welsh Development Corporation remain in existence after the establishment of this new, nominated advisory Council? If so, what will be the functions of this proposed new Council in relation to their affairs?

These bodies will continue to exercise their executive functions but will have the benefit of the advice of the Welsh Council, which will have representatives from all over Wales.

As the right hon. Gentleman knows, we on this side are opposed to the nominated Council he is setting up, but I want to make one point in connection with it. To make things clear, would not the Secretary of State consider changing the name and not continue to use the word "Council"? There have been so many different sorts of Welsh Councils in the last 15 years that people simply cannot understand them.

It is not the name that counts but the work such bodies do. I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman should say that his party is opposed to the nominated Council when his party supported one for over 13 years.

In view of the generally hostile reception of this proposal, and as the Secretary of State for Scotland does not appear to need an advisory Council, what justification is there for the Secretary of State to set up yet another nominated Council in Wales?

The hon. and learned Gentleman ought to read the White Paper.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will set up a body at an early date to consider the desirability of establishing an elected Council for Wales with the aim of further strengthening of all-Wales machinery referred to in paragraph 57 of the White Paper on Local Government in Wales.

No, Sir. This matter will be reviewed at the appropriate time in the light of the Reports of the Royal Commissions on Local Government in England and Scotland.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that unless a study is made of the question of devolution of central Government the hopes expressed in paragraph 57 of the White Paper will remain rather vague and uncertain aspirations?

The task I am anxious to get on with, the important and urgent task, is the reorganisation of local government in Wales, although, as I have already said, the Welsh Council I propose will have a much wider and more specific task than the former Council for Wales.

In view of the most humiliating rejection of an elected Council for Wales for reasons unconnected with the welfare of Wales, would not the Secretary of State agree that the whole proposal should be completely dropped and that we should now concentrate on getting at the earliest moment a legislature for Wales as a whole?

The hon. Member is irrelevant, as usual.

In an earlier reply, the right hon. Gentleman referred to the nominated Council Does he now say that Wales may have a completely new local government set-up when the Royal Commission on Local Government in England and Scotland reports?

I have already said that further consideration will be given to this matter, but I cannot prejudge the issue at this stage.

Can my hon. Friend say whether the new national Council will hold its meeting in public?

That will be a matter for the Council to decide.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if, in view of current shortages of water in certain parts of Wales, he will give an assurance that he will refuse consent to the acquisition of water from Wales by any outside undertaking until the water needs of every locality in Wales are satisfied.

I can assure my hon. Friend that in considering any proposal put to me I shall see that Welsh interests are fully protected. But, as the Welsh Advisory Water Committee demonstrated in its report of 1961, there is available in Wales ample water to meet all foreseeable internal requirements, and to provide a considerable surplus for other needs. Moreover, the construction of regulating reservoirs will improve the availability of supplies locally as well as further downstream.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that in many areas of Wales which have suffered water shortages this summer people rightly feel that it would be invidious if further concessions of Welsh water were made to outside undertakings, which already take three-quarters of the man-made resources in Wales, unless and until there is established a prior right of Welsh people to Welsh water?

I do not think that the supply of water to areas outside Wales has anything to do with the supply of water within Wales. I would remind my hon. Friend that since the war £49 million has been spent by Welsh undertakings on capital works. Demand is continually rising, and there are areas where new works will be necessary. The provision of new water supplies for Wales will be given priority but, the needs of Wales being satisfied, I see no reason why England should not receive water supplies as well.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what steps were taken to acquire the Vaynol Estate for Wales; and whether, in view of recent development, assurances have been sought about the future use of those parts of the estate including Snowdon, hitherto used by the general public.

Following my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer's statement to the House on 3rd May, 1967, the agents for the Vaynol Estate were approached with a view to possible Government purchase of parts of the estate lying within the National Park. Now that the owner has decided to dispose of the whole of the estate privately, the Government will pursue discussions with the new owners. Future changes in the use of the land would, in any case, of course, be subject to planning control.—[Vol. 746, c. 91–2.]

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the record of the new owners in their dealing with other estates they have acquired in other parts of the country, and, in particular, the Lake District, is not very good? When he obtains these assurances, will he ensure that they are legal assurances that may be effective both in relation to Snowdon and to the rights of the tenants on the estate?

I cannot comment on the standing of the new buyers, or make any helpful observations, until discussions with them have taken place.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales, in view of the local concern over the action of the West Glamorgan Water Board in inviting tenders for work on their Llyn Brianne water scheme in advance of the announcement of the result of the public inquiry, if he will seek an undertaking from the Board that no authority will be given to anyone to enter land concerned with the scheme; if he will seek to cancel authorisation already given; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend has yet to arrive at his decision on this proposal, and no authorisations have been given by him. The Water Board invited tenders for roadworks so that in the event of the scheme being approved work could be started with the minimum of delay. This is not in accordance with normal procedures, and the Board has now, at my right hon. Friend's request, asked the tenderers to defer further inquiries.

Can my hon. Friend give me an undertaking that he has also asked the Board to cancel the authorisation certificates it has already given for people to enter on land without any permission? I am glad that my constituent ejected these people.

I can give that assurance. My hon. Friend will recall that the Welsh Office acted very promptly in this matter. There is no right to enter on private land in connection with the project unless the power has been confirmed by my right hon. Friend under a water order.

I congratulate the Welsh Office on the action they took in this matter, but does not the hon. Member agree that this is an iniquitous example of jumping the gun and that in this case the rights of individuals have not been properly looked after?

I should explain that no work was started, nor was it the intention of the Board to commence any work before my right hon. Friend had announced his decision. Consideration of submitted tenders was to be deferred until a decision had been given.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many houses built for private sale by the Cwmbran Development Corporation are now standing empty at Cwmbran New Town; what contracts are at present in existence for further houses for sale: whether he is aware of concern that the financial burden of servicing the capital deployed in the building of these empty houses falls upon the rents of Cwmbran New Town tenants; and what action is being taken to dispose of these houses and decelerate further building of houses for sale.

Twenty-seven houses built by the corporation for private sale are vacant at present, but four have been reserved and negotiations are in progress for the sale of another four. The corporation has contracted for another eight houses specifically for sale. No part of the cost of houses built for sale falls upon rents of new town tenants. The corporation has advertised these houses and has engaged the services of private estate agents to help in selling them and no further tenders for houses for sale will be approved until existing vacant houses are sold.

My hon. Friend does not appear to have answered that part of my Question which asks what contracts are at present in existence for further houses for sale Mr. Davies: I did answer the Question about houses for sale, which was the point of the Question, and I said that there were contracts for another eight. I can also inform my hon. Friend about discussions we have had about certain high-priced houses. The corporation has been asked to defer putting these dwellings into contract until the housing situation at Cwmbran has been cleared up.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he has now reviewed the future population growth target of Cwmbran New Town; and with what result.

Yes, Sir. My right hon. Friend is not satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to warrant fixing a higher population target for the new town at present, but he has arranged for a further study by the corporation and the local planning authority of the longer term possibilities.

Will my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary consider whether in view of the existing situation and what appear to be the present trends there is necessity to have greater phasing towards any target growth which perhaps up to the present may have been considered necessary?

I can assure my hon. Friend that the question of future population growth has been reviewed and the size of Cwmbran New Town will depend on the study which has now been arranged.

Does my hon. Friend appreciate that as the eventual target of the new town is pushed further ahead the hopes of local people for the democratisation of the new town recede, and local people are very much anticipating the results of the legislation promised by my right hon. Friend the Minister?

Order. The hon. Members supplementary question does not refer to Cwmbran.

My visits to the town do not suggest any breakdown of democratic rights. I get the appreciation that they are very happy about democracy.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he expects plans for the proposed road by-passes at Abercynon and Aberdare; and when the works will commence.

This is a matter initially for the local highway authorities. My right hon. Friend will be ready to consider their schemes as soon as they are able to put firm proposals to him.

Although I appreciate that, will my right hon. Friend use his persuasive powers with the local authorities concerned to speed up these plans as the situation in both cases is now well-nigh intolerable?

Yes, Sir. This is essentially a matter for the local authorities, but my right hon. Friend has already announced his willingness to consider firm plans as soon as they are ready and the Welsh Office is ready to give all the help and advice it can.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales to what extent members of the Welsh Economic Council are required to adhere to the provisions of the Official Secrets Acts; and if he is satisfied that the Members of the Council have observed these limitations.

There is an obligation in that on joining Economic Planning Councils, including the Welsh Economic Council, members sign a declaration acknowledging that their attention has been drawn to the relevant provisions of the Official Secrets Acts. This obligation remains on ceasing to be a member of the Council.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that most hon. Members on this side of the House will be glad that he is not considering action because the writer's manifest lack of responsibility will be more embarrassing to him in the long run than to the Government, but does he not realise that it is invidious that appointed unrepresentative members of committees can apparently make uninformed statements about documents which hon. Members of this House have not seen?

I note what my hon. Friend has said, but members of the Welsh Economic Council are in exactly the same position as members of the English and Scottish Economic Councils.

That surely is no argument? Is there not a lot of unnecessary secrecy? Could we not sweep it away and get back to the position when an economic Council, or whatever Council is concerned, says what it does in public?

I must ask the hon. Member to read the White Paper, for that is exactly what it proposed.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what proportion of the United Kingdom current commitments of £340 million on major road improvements is to be spent on roads in Wales.

The £340 million relates only to England. The Welsh roads programme is separate.

Can the right hon. Gentleman indicate how much is to be spent and give a comparative figure to show whether there is to be any increase in "The Plan Ahead" which is deemed by many people to be disappointing in its reference to major roadworks?

Yes. The present Welsh commitments for motorways, trunk and principal roads amount to £14·3 million. This figure will increase, as suggested, as a result of the new scheme the Government have authorised.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many Welsh local authorities have reported that their quota for home loans in the current year is already exhausted; and if the Government will consider making additional grants available.

No Welsh local authority has yet reported that its quota for the current year has been exhausted. It is too early to say whether it may later be possible to make additional funds available to authorities with special needs from any balances not taken up by other authorities.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what progress has been made in negotiating for the provision of a dock access road at Newport to link up with the M4 near Forge Lane.

This would not be a trunk road, but Welsh Office officials are in consultations with the Newport Council and the Docks Board.

Was this and related matters affecting the future development of Newport discussed with the Minister of State, Welsh Office, when she visited Newport on Monday? Why was the hon. Member for Newport not invited to the meeting or at least notified of the hon. Lady's visit to the constituency of Newport relative to the normal courtesies of the House?

That is not the Question which my hon. Friend has put on the Order Paper; the improved road links with the motorway. I will, however, look into the matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science at how many universities in England and Wales fees for overseas students in the academic year 1967–68 are not to be raised in whole or in part in response to the Government's request.

Do not these figures, which, as the right hon. Gentleman will doubtless agree, are of a preliminary nature, reveal that the economies he was so confident about will be quite substantially less than he expected and have been achieved only at the expense of very great hostility in the universities?

No, Sir. The decisions taken by these universities will in no way affect the economies which I had sought to achieve, because the effect of the decisions taken by these four universities will be that they find certain sums of money, which indeed is their absolute right to do, out of their own budgets; so that my estimated economy figures will be unaltered by these figures.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if the proposed extension to St. Mary's Roman Catholic Secondary School, Croydon, will be included in the 1968–69 building programme.

My right hon. Friend is not yet able to announce a decision on the secondary school proposals submitted by the Croydon Local Education Authority for the 1968–69 Major Building Programme.

Is my hon. Friend aware that this school has appeared regularly in the Croydon school building programme since 1963 and that this matter is now one of extreme urgency? Is she also aware that I led a deputation to our late colleague, Ted Redhead, over this matter and that a great number of Catholic parents in Croydon are very worried about the delay in getting this plan approved?

We are very much aware of the point made by my hon. Friend, but it was only on 4th July that we received revised proposals for the way in which school building programmes would fit into secondary reorganisation, and we are now considering this urgently.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether teaching in a direct grant school counts towards the necessary period of one year's probation.

Yes, other than teaching in direct grant grammar schools, where probation is not a condition of employment.

I thank the Minister of State for that reply. What justification is there for that?

This does not mean that it is not possible to take teaching in direct grant grammar schools into account. It simply means that, because probation is not itself a condition of employment in direct grant grammar schools, we cannot equally require that it should be a condition by which probation is satisfied.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he is yet in a position to make a statement on the commencement of the operation of the University of the Air.

The essential preparatory work is going ahead most satisfactorily. I hope to make a more precise statement soon.

How soon is "soon"? Is the project being held up by finance or by disagreement on principles as to the operation of the scheme?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the interest and support with which he has always favoured me. The scheme is not being held up either on points of principle or on finance.

Does the hon. Lady expect to make a statement before the House rises for the Summer Recess? Is she not aware that this is becoming something of a non-saga of rather considerable length? The House hopes to hear something soon.

I am only too anxious to make a complete statement to the House.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make a statement on the present dispute over teachers' pay.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what proposals he now has for increasing teachers' pay.

The hearing before the arbitral body took place on Monday, and I await its report.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the settlement of this dispute is of the utmost significance to all those who are engaged in industrial arbitration in the private sector during the corning year? Have the Honeyman arbitrators been asked to take account of the Government's considerations concerning lower payment or productivity in the light of their prices and incomes policy? If not, will he take those considerations into account when considering the Honeyman proposals and inform the House accordingly?

I agree with the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, namely, that it is extremely important, for all manner of reasons, to achieve a settlement of this dispute. That is why this dispute is now going through the procedure carefully laid down by the House of Commons in the Remuneration of Teachers Act, 1965. The second part of the supplementary question should properly be addressed to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour.

When does the Secretary of State hope to be able to make an announcement as to his conclusions on this matter?

It is not entirely up to me. It depends very much on what comes out of the arbitration procedure. As I understand their timetable, they will probably make their report within a very small number of days from now. I would hope that we could achieve some clarity about the whole position before the end of July.

Does the Secretary of State hope that the position will be clarified before the House rises for the Summer Recess?

I very much hope so. There are two bodies here, over neither of which—quite rightly—have I any control. One is the arbitral body. The other is the Burnham Committee, which must meet to discuss the matter after the arbitral body has reported. So the timetable, as the right hon. Gentleman knows well, is not under my control. Like everybody else involved, I should like the earliest possible settlement to a very long drawn out dispute.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what further steps he is taking to develop cultural and artistic opportunities for those living in the regions.

This development is going on continuously. One of the main purposes of the increase of £1·5 million in the grant made to the Arts Council this year is the encouragement of the arts in the regions. A very welcome development in the past year has been the setting up of three new regional arts associations, in the North-West, North Wales and Greater London. In the South West, a conference held in Exeter on 23rd June, recommended the appointment of a committee to consider the establishment of a more broadly based regional body to take the place of the existing South Western Arts Association.

I welcome that Answer. Those in the South-West appreciate the fact that work is being done, perhaps for the first time, in this field. However, would not my right hon. Friend agree that cultural and artistic development is one of the most important parts of regional development?

I agree. That is why I place so much emphasis on encouraging regional arts associations. Where local people are willing to have a robust association, every possible support will be given from the centre.

Would the right hon. Lady break down the figure for the increase to show the amount which is being spent in the South-West on extra activities?

I would need notice before stating the amount for the South-West. The general flow of expenditure is that over the country as a whole it has been over 18 per cent. for Scotland and for Wales it has been 40 per cent. in each case, and the South-West as a region has certainly been advantaged more than London.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what plans he now has for encouraging the use of the initial teaching alphabet.

The question of further developments in this field will be considered by the Schools Council when it has received and studied the report of the independent evaluation of the initial teaching alphabet which it has commissioned and which is expected in the autumn.

Does the Minister of State agree that in many areas this has proved to be an outstanding success? Will she do her best, on behalf of the Government, to ensure that it is not starved for lack of finance?

The independent evaluation has been welcomed. Applications for research grant to continue studies in this field have been made to the Social Science Research Council, and we have reason to believe that an announcement will be made very soon.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what steps have been taken by his Department to advise local education authorities on the methods of teaching the new decimal system.

My right hon. Friend has asked the Schools Council to consider the curricular implications of the new system for the schools. The implications for further education establishments are being considered separately.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Is she aware that there will be considerable cost in the reprinting of textbooks? Is this to be borne by the Department?

The Department is not itself responsible for new textbooks, but we are aware that there will need to be many changes, and inspectors are at present in contact with the publishers of textbooks about the changes which will be required. We hope that full guidance on the whole subiect can be made available early in 1968.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is satisfied that there is a sufficient number of inspectors to ensure adequate supervision of experiments on animals; and if he will make a statement.

Two additional inspectors were appointed earlier this year. My right hon. Friend is considering whether more are needed.

Would the Minister of State consider the idea of allowing R.S.P.C.A. medical surgeons to have occasional access for inspection?

This is an idea I have not previously considered, but I will certainly consider it now.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is yet in a position to make a statement on fire officers' pay following negotiations within the National Joint Council for Local Authorities Fire Brigades.

It is for the National Joint Council for Local Authorities' Fire Brigades to seek to reach agreement on officers' pay on the basis of the recommendations of the National Board for Prices and Incomes. My right hon. Friend is not represented on the Council, but I understand that the Officers' Committee is to meet on 25th July.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is very great dissatisfaction in this splendid public service? They feel that they are being treated very badly. They should have an award very quickly.

There have been representations from the Association on this question. It would be inappropriate for me to make comments, in view of the negotiations which are taking place.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he is satisfied that there will be sufficient numbers of in-patient beds and outpatient round-the-clock clinics in all regions of the country to deal with drug addicts when prescribing hard drugs may no longer be carried out by general practioners; and if he will make a statement.

The regulations on prescribing will not be brought into operation until my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health is satisfied that adequate hospital facilities are available for the treatment of heroin addicts.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is satisfied with the operation of the Dangerous Drugs Act, 1964; and if he will make a statement.

The Dangerous Drugs Bill has been amended in another place to provide for the more effective safekeeping of "hard" and "soft" drugs, and to strengthen police powers. I am awaiting the views of the Advisory Committee on Drug Dependence on the need for any other changes in the law on "soft" drugs.

Is the right hon. Lady aware that one difficulty which seems to be arising over this Act is its administration in the courts? Would she ask her right hon. Friend to see whether it is possible to give a little more guidance to courts on the administration of the Act?

That is a very difficult question to answer because, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, it is very difficult for my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary to direct the courts. If there is any particular point, perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will let me know. He himself is a member of the advisory committee which is considering this question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what study he has made, in conjunction with the Metropolitan Police, of the Terrell Plan for Road Safety, of which he has a copy, and with what result.

A study of the plan carried out by the Commissioner of Police suggests that the proposals would give rise to substantial difficulties for the enforcement authorities.

Does not the Under-Secretary agree that this plan is worth study- ing, and would not the police agree that it would lead to a reduction in casualties in the London area if the plan were put into effect?

Of course, the main decision on the plan must come from the Ministry of Transport. The Home Office is concerned only with the enforcement side of it. It is right to say that the police see difficulties about enforcement, about the anomalies between cases where there is accident and where there is not, between duplication of offences and also between the automatic disqualification cases and the difficulties that in some cases it might be hard to convict.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, what steps are being taken to warn foreign tourists and British travellers arriving from Italy and other foreign parts that they are liable to imprisonment if they retain in their possession benzedrine-type or anti-air-sickness tablets purchased legally abroad.

Customs officers ask British residents returning to this country to declare all articles in their possession obtained abroad, and give appropriate advice where goods so declared are prohibited or restricted. Notices in various languages, including Italian, are displayed to warn all travellers that the importation of certain articles is prohibited or restricted, and these notices expressly refer to dangerous drugs. My right hon. Friend is considering, in consultation with my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether the notices could with advantage be amplified.

Does my right hon. Friend consider that "dangerous drugs" would ordinarily be taken by an average traveller to cover the sort of harmless pills which probably dozens of hon. Members of this House carry?

I would not like to comment on that because it might lead me into talking about a specific case which is before the courts. But obviously "dangerous drugs" means what it says. According to our law the tablets which my hon. Friend has described are dangerous drugs.

Is the right hon. Lady undertaking any study into the effect on this position of Britain's adherence to the European Economic Community, and if so what is the result?

I think that questaion goes further than the Question which I have been asked to answer.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, if he will give instructions to the prison authorities that handcuffs are not to be used for persons on their way to stand trial unless there is a reasonable apprehension that they may attempt to escape.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the Answer my right hon. Friend gave on 11th July to a Question by the hon. Member for Southend, West (Mr. Channon).—[Vol. 750, c. 62–3.]

As I have not got that Answer before me, may I ask my right hon. Friend whether she agrees that if the police themselves say that there has been every co-operation from an accused person he should not be handcuffed, as has been known to happen in certain cases?

It is the duty of the governor himself to take the decision according to the circumstances. The governor is given general guidance in prison standing orders, a copy of which is in the Library of the House. It is his responsibility when a prisoner is being moved to decide whether or not handcuffs should be used.

Having regard to the Home Secretary's Answer to me about a particular case, is it not clear that the instructions need some kind of revision? Do not they include a provision to the effect that if one prisoner is handcuffed all the others in the same batch must be handcuffed too? Is not this much too severe and liable to lead to unnecessary humiliation?

These regulations were revised only in April of this year. We will certainly look at them again to see whether they need further revision.