asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what is the estimated value of work being undertaken by his Department in Her Majesty's Royal Naval Dockyard and other naval establishments at Portsmouth in the financial year 1967–68; and that is the estimated value of work being undertaken by private firms on a contract basis in the same establishments during the same period.

£2½ million. About half is done by direct labour and half by contract.

When the Government are rightly emphasising the need for full mobilisation of economic resources, is not my right hon. Friend aware that there is considerable concern in the dockyard that outside facilities should be used which could be employed on import substitution and export programmes when there is surplus capacity available within the dockyards?

If my hon. Friend will bring any specific cases to my attention, I will investigate. But I am satisfied at present that the work done in the yard, the way in which it is done and the form in which it is done, are just about right.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what is his policy for the commissioning of new works of art for exhibition on sites and in buildings for which he is responsible.

My Ministry has on a few occasions commissioned new works of art for exhibition in buildings or on sites. Otherwise such works of art as are displayed are in general existing items purchased out of voted funds or accepted as gifts or on loan.

Will my right hon Friend accept my admiration and congratulations for the courage displayed by his Department in face of often ill-informed criticism about the quality of the work shown on sites for which he is responsible? Will he accept the need for continued patronage of the arts by the commissioning of new works of the kind displayed opposite this House in the shape of the Henry Moore sculpture?

I think that the most effective way I can encourage modern artists is by buying their existing works, and that I shall continue to do, having received advice from the appropriate committees set up to advise me.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works, what investigations he proposes to undertake of possible alternative sites for a new Parliamentary building.

This depends in the first instance on the views of the House of Commons (Services) Committee.

Will not my right hon. Friend accept the plain fact staring us in the face that we cannot have at one and the same time the preservation of the architecture and surroundings of this place and an adequate Parliamentary building to serve the purposes for which it should be created?

My hon. Friend is a distinguished member of the Services Committee. I wish that he would get it to make up its mind about what it wants.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we are still awaiting a debate on the Services Committee's Report of last summer advocating an extension to the present building? Is it not extraordinary that, throughout the country, we should urge business and industry to be efficient and to modernise while we operate in the most inefficient circumstances?

We have a site available across the way but Parliament has not yet made up its mind what we are to do with it. Apparently, as Parliamentarians, we cannot get down to making up our minds on this matter. As Minister, I am literally crying out to be told what to do about it.

Does my right hon. Friend recall that, when the Selwyn Lloyd Committee suggested a contigous building to this one, it added that it would have to be in Gothic? Will he therefore frown on any idea such as the monstrosity proposed by the Services Committee, which would merely put an up-ended matchbox in New Palace Yard?

I must say that that idea frightened me too.

I am not committing myself to what was said by the hon. Member for Wandsworth, Central (Dr. David Kerr), but may I ask the right lion. Gentleman whether he will expedite a meeting with the Services Committee so that a decision can be reached?

I am due to meet the Committee shortly, in connection, I understand, with transport proposals consequential upon anything done across the way.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what will be the effect of devaluation on the price of building materials for housing construction.

The direct effect of devaluation will be to increase the prices of imported materials by up to about 17 per cent. I estimate that this will increase the cost of building an average house by about 1½ per cent. The increase in the cost of building flats will be less and in some cases may be as low as ½per cent.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that house prices have rocketed since devaluation by about £200? As the building industry seems to have been singled out for harsh treatment by the Government. will the right hon. Gentleman discuss with his colleagues the possibility of relieving it from the Selective Employment Tax or abandoning the Transport Bill?

I reject the allegation that the building industry has been singled out by the Government for harsh treatment. It is simply not true. If house prices have risen by as much as the hon. Gentleman suggests, not very much of it is due to devaluation.

The right hon. Gentleman has now gone up ½ per cent. on his last forecast of prices. What will be added by the removal of the regional employment premium, which the former Chancellor of the Exchequer said would have a valuable effect?

Order. That is another question.

I am not changing the figure I originally gave. I said in November that the increase on the average house would be about 1½ per cent. and I have repeated that today. If the hon. Gentleman wants the figures on which this is based, I will send them to him.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether, in view of the need not only to enforce maximum economy in connection with all building projects but also to insist upon the use of indigenous materials with a view to reducing imports wherever possible, he will arrange for a special appeal to be issued to all architects, civil engineers, and other professional persons concerned with building in order to draw their attention to the national interest involved.

The Economic Development Committees for Building and Civil Engineering and the Construction Materials Group have this matter regularly on their agenda. I am confident that all the professions concerned with construction are well aware of the need for economy and efficiency and know of the need to dispense with imported materials where there are suitable home produced alternatives.

I do not feel therefore that I need arrange for any special appeal.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that, other than food, the import of building materials is the largest single charge against the adverse balance of payments? Will he not therefore consider a general appeal to support the "I back Britain" campaign and theDaily Express "Buy British" campaign, all of which could make a substantial impact on that deficit?

I respect the hon. Gentleman's motives, and, in the light of what he has said, I will certainly consult the professional organisations again. The hon. Gentleman will understand that whatever I do must be done through them, for they are the recognised bodies and I must carry them with me.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what progress he is able to report on the House of Commons memorial to the late Sir Winston Churchill.

The sculptor, Mr. Oscar Nemon, is now engaged on the full-scale model, which he expects to have ready by the end of this month. I will arrange for the Memorial Committee to see it. If it is approved, and no difficulties arise over the casting, the bronze statute should be completed before the end of the year.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what steps are being taken to prevent the defacement of Stonehenge.

Stonehenge has been daubed with paint, probably by students during rag weeks, five times in the last year.

This might cause serious archaeological damage, and I am asking principals of schools and colleges round about to try and stop this vandalism. I am also considering further security measures.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that Stonehenge has also been daubed with C.N.D. propaganda? Is it not quite deplorable that this tremendous national inheritance should be misused in this way? It does not matter whether it is C.N.D., or "Wilson must go", or "Up the Tories"; it is quite wrong that this should happen. What effective precautions is the right hon. Gentleman taking?

I do not know who is doing this damage. It is quite disgraceful and the scrubbing with caustic or detergent substances which we have had to undertake will cause, and has already caused, some damage. I am taking special security measures, but I would rather not disclose them to the hon. Gentleman, or some of the queer characters whom he has mentioned will know about them.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what is the total value of building licences granted since the licence limit was reduced to £50,000; and what percentage of such licences has been for building for purpose of entertainment.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what was the number and value of building licences issued under the Building Control Act, 1966, to the most convenient date; and how many applications he has refused.

In the period from the enactment of the Building Control Act to 29th December, 1967, 1,068 projects with a total value of f212·2 million have been licensed and 117 projects with a total value of £20·2 million have been refused. Just over 9 per cent. of the licences granted have been for projects classified as entertainment, more than half of which have been for hotels.

In view of the unemployment in the building trade, is it to be and will it be the Ministry's present and future policy to regard applications indulgently and sympathetically?

My present policy is very flexible.

In view of that and in order to save civil servants, would it not be a good idea to abolish this licensing?

As the hon. Gentleman knows, building licences are needed in times of overload on the construction industry, which certainly cannot be said of it today. However, the licences do not apply in development areas, or to houses. or industrial buildings. The hon. Gentleman may be interested to learn that of last December's figures, for which I have responsibility, only 2 per cent. were rejected. I shall be as flexible as possible.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works if he is aware that the accommodation and facilities for research workers in the Public Record Office are inadequate; and what proposals he has for improving them.

Yes, Sir. Last year, my Department provided an extra 40 places for readers in the main building. This year, a further 50 places for readers and storage space for records are being provided, in premises nearby in Lincoln's Inn Fields. The photographic accommodation in the main building is being improved. The longer-term needs of the Public Record Office are being studied.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this building houses what is perhaps the finest collection of historical documents in the world and that during the summer months students from all over the world converge upon it only to find primitive accommodation for reading and writing? May I therefore thank him for his Answer, which will give much pleasure?

The hon. Gentleman and the House will be interested to know that the work which we are doing in the photographic department will cost £24,000 and that other work will cost £9,000. I am having discussions with the officials of the Public Record Office to see what more I can do to help.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he will make a statement about the position of the Whitehall Plan.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether the Government intend to implement the Whitehall Plan.

Planning is continuing for the redevelopment of the Bridge Street/Richmond Terrace site. The requirement for new Parliamentary accommodation on this site is being considered by the House of Commons Services Committee.

Traffic arrangements in the area are still the subject of study by the authorities concerned.

Following the public inquiry in to the Broad Sanctuary site by Sir Robert Matthew, the Government have agreed that there should be a comprehensive plan for redevelopment of this site. Consultations have been held with those with property interests in the site, and the authorities concerned.

Can the hon. Gentleman tell us a little more about the unified scheme for the Broad Sanctuary site, as one of the owners is the Government?

There has been a public inquiry and Sir Robert Matthew recommended a comprehensive plan for the use of the site by my Ministry and others. A joint comprehensive scheme is now being pursued by the property owners in consultation with the planning and other authorities concerned.

Pending a decision on this plan, will the Minister continue to frown on monstrosities, whether Gothic or matchbox, proposed to be built in New Palace Yard, which would destroy one of the finest amenities of New Palace Yard, the catalpa trees?

I am in the difficulty that I have to do in this matter what I am told by the House. I assume that the House will have the chance to decide what, if anything, should be built in New Palace Yard. I can say that as a Member of the House and if there is a free vote, I shall vote against it.

As by far the most urgent and, I think, unanimous recommendation is that something should be done about the traffic in Parliament Square, can the right hon. Gentleman hold out any hope for the tunnel bypass, which would get through traffic out of Parliament Square?

The Ministry of Transport, with the G.L.C., which is the traffic authority, and my Department have been in consultation about traffic and I understand that a report will be given to the Services Committee at its next meeting, a report probably based on those recommendations. I hope that then the Services Committee will at long last make up its mind about what we can do about the Bridge Street site.

Will my right hon. Friend appreciate that the claims of the catalpa trees are greatly over-rated and that they are not as good as they are cracked up to be? However, in order to avoid building over New Palace Yard, may I ask whether he has investigated the possibilities of building over other courts as has been done in Star Court?

I understand that this Palace has been thoroughly investigated to see how much extra space could be provided for hon. Members. I think that we have reached almost the end of our tether in that respect. A building across the road would be a Parliamentary building which would be for the benefit of hon. Members and officers and so on. The whole question is whether the traffic could be routed in such a way as to make it convenient for hon. Members to use some accommodation and I gather that that is the argument now before the Services Committee.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works (1) whether, in view of the necessity of improving the balance of trade, he will circularise all architects and engineers drawing up plans for buildings for which his department is responsible, to ensure that wherever possible indigenous materials are used for such buildings and the use of imported materials reduced to a minimum; and whether there are existing instructions to architects and engineers in this connection, and of what nature;

Professional officers responsible for the building work undertaken by my Department—including work for the Post Office—are already required, before specifying imported items, to ensure that no acceptable home produced alternative of equivalent price, quality and performance is available. Where it is essential to employ imported products, professional officers must use them sparingly and economically.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that if a blitz were made on the subject of imported materials, such as by having plastic tiles instead of wooden floors and sloping roofs instead of timber-supported roofs and plastic pipes instead of copper pipes and so on, there could be savings of hundreds of millions of pounds now spent on imported materials?

The hon. Gentleman must not under-rate the building industry which is a very intelligent industry. The amount of substitution already going on is quite remarkable and I pay tribute to the industry for it. What I have to ensure is that we go on with this process, making sure that we abolish as much importing as we can, although we cannot do so entirely, because we have to honour agreements with E.F.T.A. and so on.

Will the right hon. Gentleman ensure that the Post Office constantly tries to see whether it can find British timber suitable for telegraph poles?

I do not know the answer to that; I will ask my right hon. Friend the Postmaster-General.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what is the value of the work done by his Department for the Armed Forces at and adjoining stations in the Persian Gulf since October, 1964.

About £14,500,000; at Bahrain and Sharjah.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether that expenditure is still continuing? Does not the size of this indicate the high cost of the precipitate reversal of Government policy announced recently?

I would put it to the right hon. Gentleman that if we had stayed on in the Middle East we should have been committed to far more money. I understand that at least about £20 million would be spent. I must concede to the right hon. Gentleman that this does not mean, because we are moving out of the Gulf within a certain time, that no more money will be spent here. I cannot give the right hon. Gentleman the exact figures but I am prepared to investigate this and will write to him.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether, when he ulimately vacates the site for which we have been financially responsible, we will get some financial return for them?

I cannot answer that. My right hon. Friend will know that I am interested in the present. As to what will happen at the end, when we leave the area, I cannot say, but I will certainly investigate this and again let my right hon. Friend know.

Would it not have been a good thing for the British building trade and the British balance of payments, if Her Majesty's Government had not turned down the offer of rulers such as the ruler of Bahrain to finance British military expenditure in the Persian Gulf?

The hon. Gentleman is asking the wrong Minister the wrong Question. He had better address his remarks to the appropriate Miniser.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what will be the cost in 1968 of providing office furniture for senior civil servants; and whether this equipment will be made of British wood by British workmen.

The Department is the purchasing agency for furniture for a wide range of organisations including United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority, hospitals, universities and the Armed Forces and supply furniture on repayment terms.

I expect to spend about £100,000 in 1968–69, and a good deal of this will be resold to these clients. All is made in this country; as much as possible is made of British wood, bearing in mind the limited supplies available.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he would not agree that senior civil servants could give up having new furniture this year? Secondly, can he assure me that a lot of the furniture is manufactured by Remploy?

I cannot answer about Remploy but I will certainly investigate it. My Department is a main purchasing agency. As to whether some of this is from Remploy I cannot say. With regard to the quality of the furniture for civil servants, I hope that they, like everyone else in this country, will realise the problem that now faces us.

Could my right hon. Friend give an undertaking that he will consider purchasing some of this furniture through the prison industries?

I will certainly look at that.

is the right hon. Gentleman aware that over 95 per cent. of the timber used in the country is imported? Would he do his best to see whether the Minister of Agriculture could do something quickly to put this situation right?

I am advised that in specifying timbers we follow normal commercial practice. Recent purchases of oak have been British but this is not always possible as supplies of British oak are very limited.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works, what have been the cost of providing accommodation for civil servants since 1964; and what is the cost of the accommodation required by the new civil servants, in order to administer the Government legislation passed since 1964.

From October, 1964, to October, 1967, the annual cost of renting offices for Government Departments—other than the Post Office—and of rates, maintenance, services etc., averaged about £50 million. This includes the cost—now running at about £10 million a year—of additional accommodation taken during that period which was obviously necessitated, for some time after October, 1964, by decisions of the previous administration. Under it the number of civil servants grew from about 375,000 in 1958 to over 415,000 in 1964.

Separate figures are not available for the cost of accommodating new civil servants administering legislation passed since 1964.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply. may I ask him to make every effort to reduce this number? Surely this could be one of the Government's economies?

The hon. Lady is asking the wrong Minister the wrong Question. When civil servants are taken on in any of the Government services my job is to provide accommodation for them. My policy is to buy rather than rent accommodation, because in the long term it is cheaper for the country.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what representations he has received from builders about the effect of devaluation on fixed-price contracts let by his Department; and what reply he has sent.

I have received representations from the National Federation of Building Trades Employers and the Federation of Master Builders, and I have said that, if there are exceptional cases of hardship on firm price Ministry contracts, my Department would be prepared to consider makingex-gratiapayments if it can be shown that losses on the contract as a whole have been suffered as a direct result of devaluation.

Would the right hon. Gentleman not agree with Mr. Kirby Laing of the N.F.B.T.E. when he says that the Government-imposed charges like S.E.T. and devaluation undermine the whole basis of fixed-price contracts, which were urged by Banwell, and which he, with his Ministry, supposedly, supports?

I have great respect for Mr. Kirby Laing and his association, but I do not necessarily agree with their figures. I have said—and I repeat this question—to those who claim to have suffered hardship on the contract as a whole: if they come to us, we as a Ministry will certainly do all that we can to help, but it must be shown that an actual loss has been made on the contract as a whole. I will not give, and I hope hon. Gentlemen opposite will support me, an automatic increase apropos devaluation on all those contracts as a whole. It would not be right.

Would not the Minister agree that with the present high Bank Rate a number of small builders are suffering financial hardship? Will he give interim payments when hardship can be proved?

The hon. Gentleman will be interested to know that a meeting has been arranged for 9th February between representatives of the N.F.B.T.E., officials of my Ministry, and those from the Ministry of Housing and Local Government. These questions will be discussed. There is a great deal of good will and, I hope, understanding on these matters.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what estimate he has made of the level of Government-sponsored building work for Service personnel after the end of 1971, in the light of Command Paper No. 3515; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister pointed out in his statement of 16th January that time will be needed to work out the precise implications of the decisions announced in Command Paper No. 3515. I am not therefore able to make any statement at present.

In view of the cuts in the housing programme, announced by the Prime Minister, and the abandonment of the pledge to build 500,000 houses, would the Minister say how it is proposed to house these 70,000 or so Servicemen?

In his statement on 16th January the Prime Minister said that a further White Paper will be published later in the year embodying the precise implications of the decisions taken. With great respect, the hon. Gentleman will have to ask me Questions then.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works (1) what he estimates will be the effect upon the construction industry of the measures announced in Command Paper No. 3515;

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what estimate he has formed of the impact upon the construction industry of Government measures introduced in the current Session.

As I said when I met representatives of the industry on the 16th January, I estimate that the total output of new work in 1968 will still be at least 3 per cent. above that in 1967.

Is the Minister aware that he is confirming the final abandonment of the building targets under the National Plan and also the abandonment of the Prime Minister's solemn pledge about 500,000 new houses in 1970? Would he say whether the industry can expect adjusted targets and adjusted pledges?

I can only say that the hon. Gentleman is far more pessimistic than the representatives of the building industry. I have already met them. The actual estimated output of new work just after devaluation, we thought, would be about 5·5 per cent. But instead, since the announcement was made by the Prime Minister and the Chancellor, we now estimate that this year there will be a 3 per cent. increase—and I am talking of volume at constant prices—over last year. The industry understands this, and the reasons for it. I have been promised its good will and co-operation.

Can the Minister assure me that the appearance of his name on the back of the Industrial Expansion Bill is a pure formality and that it is not there because he intends to meddle with the industry?

My name is on the Bill and it is no formality. I have been asked questions on this by the industry and I have assured it that, whatever I did on this or any other Bill. I would certainly consult it before I did it.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what representations he has received from the construction industry following devaluation and the announcement of curtailment of public expenditure; and what action he has taken.

Immediately following the statement by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on 16th January, I saw representatives of the construction industry.

I told them the effect of the reductions in planned public expenditure, and received assurances that the industry would co-operate in the new situation.

I have also urged the industry to seek every opportunity to increase its earnings overseas, and I have met with a very encouraging response.

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on the speed with which he acted in this very important matter. Assuming that this was a somewhat wide-ranging discussion, was any reference made to increasing emphasis being placed on the use of indigenous materials in the industry, with specific emphasis on brick and stone?

Yes. The industry, I know, is willing and anxious to do all it can in the matters to which my hon. Friend has referred. I should like to pay public tribute to the industry. It has a bad image with the public in many respects because of the odd individual firm which misbehaves, but it must never be forgotten that year after year the output in this industry has been rising, on average, between 3 and 4 per cent. It is doing a first-class job and I intend to encourage it.

How can these reductions be reconciled with the Prime Minister's broadcast on 19th November, in which he said that the house building programme would be safeguarded in the measures accompanying devaluation?

I know something about the housing programme, as the hon. Gentleman will be aware. At least half the housing programme is within the private sector over which the Government cannot have any control as far as numbers are concerned. The number of houses completed by the public authorities is the greatest ever known in the history of Britain.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works if he will now take the Chambered Cairn at Ord North at Lairg, Sutherland, into guardianship for the purpose of displaying it to the public.

No Sir. I am awaiting a report on the recent excavations there. When I have this, I will then be able to decide whether the monument merits being taken into guardianship. I will certainly bear in mind the representation made by my hon. Friend.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask whether he is aware of the importance and great interest of archæological sites of this nature, not only to specialists but to tourists in the Highlands? Is he further aware that there is much to be said for speeding up the process of examination and evaluation of the archæological findings in the Highlands of Scotland?

I respect my hon. Friend's keen interest and I assure him that I shall take his representations into account. My Department has already spent £2,000 on excavation and conservation work at this monument and while it may turn out to be of guardianship class it will have to wait its turn, because at the moment there are already more monuments in my future guardianship programme than I can finance.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether, once his Department has moved to its new office, building from Lambeth Bridge House, he will make the site available for a new hotel which will have one of the best outlooks in London.

No, Sir; Lambeth Bridge House will remain my Department's main headquarters, although staff will be moved from other buildings in London. In any case, we do not own either the site or the building, which is held on lease.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what proposals he has for saving imports of construction materials.

My predecessor asked the Economic Development Committees for Building and Civil Engineering to study this problem and to consider what action can be taken to promote the use of home produced materials. They have already asked the architectural profession to specify British materials wherever these are suitable in price, quality and performance. I have instructed designers employed by my own Ministry to use British materials where cost allows them to do so.

I am much obliged to my right hon. Friend for the action which he has taken. However, is he aware that there are proposals to import Italian pumice via a West German firm to make blocks for building? Is he further aware that we have plenty of very good lightweight aggregates in this country and that the lightweight aggregate industry very much needs his support? Will he ensure that these imports are not permitted?

I should be obliged if my hon. Friend would let me have chapter and verse about that matter. I do not propose at Question Time to say that I am aware when I am not. She had better let me have the details, and I will certainly have a look at them.

Is not chipboard a good example of the kind of industry where the use of a good deal of spare capacity in the home industry might be encouraged?

That is perfectly true. The chipboard industry is under-producing. I understand that there is a possibility of an increase of about 30,000 or 40,000 tons a year. This is the very thing which we should encourage. The cost is not necessarily all that cheaper, but it is British.

If my right hon. Friend is looking for ways of saving foreign exchange, would he consider the leases which he has on property abroad? Is he aware, for example, that his Ministry spends £100,000 a year in rent on accommodation in Brussels and that the Government as a whole spend £200,000 a year there on rent? Would my right hon. Friend do something to cut this expenditure and not play monopoly with the taxpayer's money?

I am fond of my hon. Friend, but while he was speaking I was trying to see how I could work the Brussels Embassy into this Question. I cannot see how I can do that, and, without notice, I do not propose to try.

Is the Minister aware that the devastation of the Scottish forests in the recent hurricane damage has created a unique opportunity to save on the import of timber? Will he ensure that this tragedy is made into a source of profit for the country through the use of home-grown timber wherever possible?

I respect the hon. Gentleman's question. I will see what can be done to call the attention of the industry to the point which he has made.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works how many approval certificates have been given by the Agrément Board to date.

Five

That is a very brief reply. It would appear that it is not a very high output for the Agrément Board since it was set up. Does not my right hon. Friend think that more use would be made of the Board, perhaps by developers, and so on, if it had teeth put into its possibilities by the introduction of an insurance system, as the French did when they introduced their agrément system?

I share my hon. Friend's concern about the Board. I am sure that they are good people who are doing a first-class job, but only five certificates have been issued up to date. I am told that a further certificate is due to be issued within the next few days and a further 10 by mid-April. What bothers me is that last year alone 300 new products came on to the market, which means that the vast majority of them were never tested. If the Board is to be worth while, more of us must consider seriously how we can make it effective.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works when his Department expects to complete removal of the prefabricated buildings at Magpie Hall Lane, Bromley Common.

Five houses remain to he cleared on this site. My Department was notified by the local authority on 31st January that they were ready for removal, and I expect that removal of the superstructures will be completed by the end of this month. The concrete bases will then be removed as soon as possible.

I thank the Minister for that reply. Is he aware that as long as they remain they are an eyesore and nuisance on land which is zoned as green belt? I am glad to know that the clearance is being speeded up.

I am much obliged.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what progress he is making with the allocation of Government-owned offices in Central London as between Ministries; and whether he will make a statement.

The new offices now under construction in Horseferry Road have been allocated to the Ministry of Housing and Local Government and the Ministry of Transport. This will occasion some re-allocation of space in other buildings, including some that are Government owned, but plans for all the moves involved are not yet settled.

If it is the Government's policy to disperse the Civil Service out of London and reduce the traffic flow, why is the right hon. Gentleman moving the colossus of the Ministry of Transport into central London rather than out of it? What will happen to St. Christopher House?

St. Christopher House will be used by other civil servants. I am not sure of the position concerning the Ministry of Transport, but I understand that it was an advantage to have both these Ministries together as both of them are concerned with environmental planning.

When does my right hon. Friend expect this building to be completed?

When the workmen move off the site. There have been some delays of which my hon. Friend will be aware. I am glad that all now seems to be well. We had better not start giving any more target dates.

asked the Minister of Technology if he will make a statement on the progress with electrical propulsion for satellites.

The first experimental model of an electrical thruster has been made at the Royal Aircraft Establishment and preliminary testing will start shortly. Initial research work is being carried out on very low thrust electrical units suitable for maintaining the orientation of a satellite in orbit.

Can the Minister say whether there is a firm development programme for this project and how much money is involved in it?

Yes, there is a development programme on the initial research work. I cannot say exactly how much is being spent on this part of the research as it comes in a wider programme which is costing £3 million a year.

asked the Minister of Technology if he will make a statement about planned European Launcher Development Organisation firings in 1968.

The European Launcher Development Organisation plans to launch two vehicles in 1968, one, known as F.7, in September, and the second, F.8, in December.

Can the Minister say what went wrong with the French second stage of the recent E.L.D.O. launching?

There was a fault in the electrical system, which is now being investigated with the co-operation of the French authorities.

asked the Minister of Technology if he will make a statement on the order position in the Upper Clyde shipyards.

The estimated value of orders for new ships on hand with Upper Clyde yards at the end of 1967 was £86 million.

Does the Minister agree that the prosperity of the lower reaches is not being shared with the upper reaches and that there is a serious position and redundancy? Can he assure us that the new merger will not be allowed to founder by making sure, if necessary, that sufficient naval orders are available?

I am in continual contact with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence concerning naval orders. The order position is disappointing and I know that there is anxiety, but the Upper Clyde group is now well advanced and we hope that devaluation will help the position.

Can my right hon. Friend state what proportion of orders have been placed on the Clyde by British ship-owners within the total of £86 million?

Not accurately without notice.

What my right hon. Friend has said about orders being disappointing is an understatement of the position. Is he aware that it is reported that the Russians have placed an order for 50 vessels in Japan? Is any attempt being made by the shipbuilders, backed by the Government, to obtain orders from the Soviet Union?

The possibility of orders for ships from the Soviet Union was discussed and is very much in mind. If my right hon. Friend asks whether anything has been done, of course the major effort is in reorganisation and as this works its way through, with the advantages of devaluation, we very much hope that the position will improve.

asked the Minister of Technology how many persons have been and are employed by his Department on scientific work; the nature of their work; where they have been located during each of the last five years; and to what extent the developments of that work have had an effect on the trade, industry, commerce and employment of the City of Aberdeen.

My Department employs some 2.000 members of the Scientific Officer class. Their location and work described in "Technical Services for Industry", a copy of which has been placed in the Library. There have been no major changes in location during the last five years.

Aberdeen, like other important industrial cities and towns, has benefited from their work, though it is not possible to quantify this benefit.

In thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask, as most of this scientific product depends not on its weight but on its scientific excellence, whether it would not be possible to spread it more amongst the depopulated areas of. the North of Scotland?

Apart from the fact that the Torry research station is near my hon. and learned Friend's constituency and is working on problems connected with fish which concern Aberdeen itself, and there are, of course, other establishments in Scotland, I do not think that it would be right to relocate research establishments to meet the point made by my hon. and learned Friend. What is wanted is new industry, not research establishments for this purpose.

asked the Minister of Technology why it took his Department two months to give clearance to Messrs George Keith and Son of Arbroath to enable them to tender for an export order to Holland; and what steps he is taking to accelerate procedures in his Department to prevent a recurrence of this delay.

This was exceptional and no change in procedures is necessary. The work in checking the design and patent situation should have been completed in four to five weeks. I regret that an error causing a delay of about three weeks upset the priority usual to such applications.

Is not the Ministry of Technology taking this matter rather lightly? Is it not wholly scandalous that two months' delay should prejudice an export order of this nature — two months of delay of pure bureaucracy? What is the Ministry doing seriously to correct this disgraceful sort of delay?

The language used by the hon. Member is a little strong and a little misleading. It was known at the time that this was not a situation in which an export order would be prejudiced, because the Dutch authorities were not likely to take a decision on the equipment, of which the order was a very minor part. until the middle of 1968.

asked the Minister of Technology whether he will make a further statement on the merger prospects for Wear shipyards.

I understand that the three companies concerned are pressing on with their joint examination of a merger and hope to be able to submit proposals to the Shipbuilding Industry Board shortly.

Will my right hon. Friend continue to do his best to press ahead with these negotiations now that we are prejudiced, as, I am sure, he recognises, by the very good progress which is being made in other shipbuilding districts? I appreciate that there are particular difficulties, but we really have to solve them.

I share my right hon. Friend's feeling of disappointment. The consultant's report was available five months ago, but it is a matter for negotiations between the yards concerned, the Shipbuilding Industry Board, and my own Department, and we will do anything we can to help.

asked the Minister of Technology what factors have caused the fall in the amount spent by his Department on research and development in the Northern Region from £2·6 million in 1963–64 to £1·8 million in 1965–66.

Most of the Ministry's expenditure on research and development in the Northern Region relates to defence projects, and such expenditure was at an exceptionally high level in 1963–64; it is not, however, possible without disproportionate effort to identify particular items on which expenditure has subsequently fallen to a lower level.

I am obliged for that reply, but will my hon. Friend pay attention to the fact that this sort of research and development is of vital importance to development areas, as all American experience shows it is, and will he do his best to see whether he can steer this sort of development into development areas?

It is the Ministry's policy wherever possible to channel its support to concerns in development areas including the Northern Region, but in the case of major defence research and development projects, which account for the majority of the expenditure, the special capabilities and facilities involved seriously restrict the choice of firms.

In view of the fact that defence expenditure is being cut, which must, of course, cut research, could the hon. Gentleman say what we are going to have in the North to make up For any cuts which may be made in defence expenditure?

Not all research is in the defence field. In the period referred to by my right hon. Friend in his Question, the Ministry's support, for example, for the Ship Research Association's activities in the Northern Region increased sevenfold.

Would the hon. Gentleman explain why, in view of the cuts in defence which have taken place, largely in the last 12 months, compared with two years ago, the amount spent on research is less than in the two years previously?

Without notice of that question, no. It is a rather different question.

asked the Minister of Technology whether he will make a statement on the action he has taken to encourage new industrial research and development work in the North-East.

Yes, sir. I have asked my hon. Friend the Member for Middles-brough, West (Dr. Bray) to take special responsibility for developing my Department's regional policies in support of the Government's general policies for development areas. With this in mind I am now seeking and hoping to encourage viable projects.

While welcoming that Answer from my right hon. Friend, may I ask if he could say in particular, what use is being made of resources which are already there, on Tyneside, for example, in conjunction with universities? It is very urgent that we should not let these resources lie idle.

My hon. Friend will realise that in thinking of regional policy from the Ministry of Technology's point of view we have these sorts of considerations very much in mind. We have increased the number of contracts with I.R.D., and the N.R.D.C. has spent £1·4 million in the North in the last 18 months. In this and other ways we are hoping really to help.

asked the Minister of Tecnology whether radiation levels experienced by passengers in Concorde will be greater than those received in lower flying aircraft; and what maximum dosage is expected.

Radiation levels are higher at these altitudes, but are still far too low to constitute of hazard to passengers' health, except on the very rare occassions when there are severe solar flares. Concorde will carry a device to give warning of these, so that the pilot can descend to a lower altitude and continue the flight.

Is it not the case that there will be no opportunity., in the event of a solar flare, for the pilot to descend to a lower level, and, as this is only one of the snags for passengers in supersonic flying, would he not be well-advised to devote the attention of the Ministry to more productive fields which convenience more people and inconvenience fewer?

On the first part of the supplementary I am advised that the in-flight device will enable the plane to descend to a height where there will be no danger at all from these flares.

Will the Minister confirm what it, perhaps, more important, that the same applies to the crew, and will he not deprecate the vendetta of his hon. Friend the Member for Putney (Mr. Hugh Jenkins) against the Concorde?

We shall have an opportunity fully to debate questions about the Concorde. We are satisfied that there is no health risk involved in this plane's flying. If we had felt that there would be, the whole project would have been stopped a long time ago. There will be no risk to the crew. The amount of danger to which they will be exposed is no more than approximately five X-rays per year.

asked the Minister of Technology if he has now decided to refer to the National Board for Prices and Incomes the recently announced increase in the price of Mallory mercury hearing aid batteries—RM 675 H2014;1·4 volts—from 11s. to 16s. 6d. for six; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Technology what action he will take over the recent increase in price of hearing aid batteries from Is. 10d. to 2s. 9d.

asked the Minister of Technology whether he will now refer to the National Board for Prices and Incomes the recent increase in price for the Mallory R.M. 675 H 14 volt batteries for hearing aids as sold by chemists and others.

asked the Minister of Technology what action he intends to take as a result of the recent increase in the price of batteries for hearing aids.

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Economic Affairs and I have decided to refer the question of these increased prices to the National Board for Prices and Incomes for examination, and the reference will be made shortly.

I am most grateful to my right hon. Friend for that reply, but can he also explain why it has taken the Department so long to reach this decision? In view of this outrageous increase in these prices, what action is he taking to ensure that the old prices are still maintained till the Prices and Incomes Board has had an opportunity to consider this matter?

I am sorry if my hon. Friend thinks it has taken so long a time to make this reference, but these references are not made lightly, and I think it is right that we should have thought about it very carefully. As to the second point, I am not able to answer offhand how this will operate. I think it is covered by the arrangements with the Board itself.

But pending the Board's report, will the Government countermand the existing price increases, particularly as some of us believe that the Board, while strong against wages, is as weak as dishwater about prices?

I will look at the point my hon. Friend has raised about the present price, but I would not accept that we have been slow to refer prices to the Board. Indeed, I myself have referred quite a number of cases, including the recent case of Television Rentals.

If my right hon. Friend is not able to freeze the prices of these batteries till the Board has reported, will he at least consult his colleagues at the Ministry of Social Security to see that additional social security benefits are given, to old folk in particular, to cover the increase of the cost of these batteries which they will have to pay in the weeks ahead?

I have promised to look at the point raised by my hon. Friend, but, as my hon. Friend knows, these batteries are not used in the Medresco National Health Service hearing aid.

Has the Minister come to an understanding with the Chairman of the Prices and Incomes Board as to when a decision may be taken as this increase hits hard so many people who can ill afford it?

I think the Board is very well aware, in this as in other cases, of the desirability of producing a report as quickly as possible. I have not in this instance met the Chairman. I think that he and the Board must look at the matter independently and report as soon as possible.

Will the Minister consult the Minister of Health to see if possible, that prescriptions for these batteries can be obtained by those suffering from chronic deafness?

That would not be a question for me but since the hon. Gentleman has raised it, I will draw it to the attention of my right hon. Friend.