asked the Postmaster-General what steps he takes to prevent unnecessary or wasteful expenditure by his Department.

Control of expenditure is the constant concern of all levels of management and is exercised through a comprehensive system of financial, budgetary and operational management employing modern standard techniques.

How does the Postmaster-General square that Answer with the fact that £3,000 was recently wasted in the Guildford telephone area in sending out this sort of ludicrous information about the new price of telephone directories?

This is not wasted at all. It is money very well spent. At the moment directory inquiries on the telephone cost us almost I s. each. We are trying to persuade people to use the yellow pages of the classified directory, because we find that the greater part of these inquiries could be answered through the yellow pages.

On the subject of waste, would the right hon. Gentleman agree that the Bristol Siddeley affair showed up a quite astonishing incompetence in buying methods in some Government Departments? Is he absolutely—[Interruption.]

Order. We must deal with the Question on the Order Paper.

Is he absolutely certain that the commercial skills of his own Department match up to its very difficut tasks?

Yes. I think that this kind of case could not occur in the Post Office.

asked the Postmaster-General what instructions he gave regarding the introduction of the " I'm Backing Britain "postmark.

My instructions were for an early introduction of the postmark campaign, at the largest possible number of offices.

What on earth are these words supposed to mean in this context? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that they cannot refer to the sender or recipient of the letter, who has no say in what appears on the envelope? If the Post Office is backing Britain not only should it not need to be told this, but would it not be more effective to do something to improve the postal and telephone services instead?

If the hon. Gentleman is opposed to the "I'm Backing Britain" campaign, let him say so.

asked the Postmaster-General what estimate he has made of the number of new jobs, in industry supplying Post Office equipment, will be created in Scotland over the next 12 months.

I have made no estimate. It is impossible to equate jobs in the telecommunications industry in Scotland with extra Post Office business there, as the industry produces equipment for other customers at home, and for export, as well as for the Post Office. I expect Scotland to get its share of the increased Post Office business which is going to development areas.

My right hon. Friend will appreciate that we in development areas in Scotland very much welcome this development. Does he also recognise that there are complaints in the local areas concerned that most of the jobs are for women, when jobs for men would be infinitely preferable?

I realise that there are a lot of jobs for women in this kind of business. Next year we are increasing our orders for telephone exchange equipment by almost 30 per cent. and the greater part of this will go to the development areas.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he has completed the review of the rules governing the destruction of articles in the returned letter branches; and if he will make a statement.

The review will be completed in about two weeks' time.

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making this review and for the very full apology that he has sent to a constituent of mine who suffered loss of valuable documents. Is he aware that this seems a very long time to take to review what was a relatively simple matter? May we have an assurance that the review really will go far enough towards eliminating the risk of any repetition?

I hope that we shall be able to achieve that. The hon. Gentleman will agree that we were right to obtain the views of our staff, people working in the returned letter branches, responsible for looking after this traffic and with practical experience, before issuing revised instructions.

asked the Postmaster-General what alteration in methods for procuring supplies he will make in the light of the report of the Industrial Reorganisation Corporation.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will make a statement on the renewal of the bulk supply agreement for telephone exchange equipment for the period after 31st March, 1968.

The future arrangements for the procurement of exchange equipment are still being discussed with the manufacturers, and I hope to make a statement shortly. The Telephone Apparatus Agreement is not being renewed and we shall be seeking competitive tenders later in the year.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that almost everyone whom one meets in the industry seems to have had access to the report by the Industrial Reorganisation Corporation? Is he further aware that it is a subject of immense interest to this House? Could we not have the report published, for our consideration?

I have looked at this, as has my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Economic Affairs, who has answered a Question in the House about it. Manufacturers gave information to the inquiry on the basis that it would remain confidential. For that reason we feel that we are bound by this pledge to the manufacturers, and we cannot publish the report.

I hope that the right hon. Gentleman is doing the right thing with vigour. Is he not aware that in the installation of telephones per capita we are dragging behind many civilised countries such as the United States and Sweden and even Commonwealth countries like Australia and New Zealand and that the decision to ask for a year's rent in advance is not the way to catch up?

I agree that the penetration of the telephone in this country for many years has been behind that of many other countries. We are beginning to sell the telephone quite intensively in many parts of the country, as the hon. Gentleman will see if he goes to this year's Daily Mail Ideal Home Exhibition.

On the question of new contracts for procuring supplies, would my right hon. Friend note that the Prices and Incomes Board's Report No. 55 points out that distributors' costs are traditionally borne as a percentage of costs but that in some cases there is no need to increase prices because those extra costs have not been increased due to devaluation?

asked the Postmaster-General if he will give an undertaking that he will retain Post Office charges until the House has had an opportunity to debate the forthcoming report of the National Board for Prices and Incomes on the subject.

asked the Postmaster-General which telephone charges he now intends to reduce.

I cannot anticipate the decisions which will be taken in the light of the impending report of the National Board for Prices and Incomes. I shall make a statement in due course.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many industries with absolutely parallel reasons for raising their prices as the Post Office have had their requests turned down by the Prices and Incomes Board? I ask him quite seriously what he proposes to do if the Prices and Incomes Board turns down his request.

The hon. Gentleman would not expect me to answer a hypothetical question like that. However, no other industry in Britain has to find the sort of money which we have to find for capital investment. For example, over the next five years we must find £2,000 million. From where would the hon. Gentleman get it?

Since the right hon. Gentleman has said that some telephone charges are too high, does it not follow that these should be lowered—or can this Government only put up charges?

I have said that one of the objects of the present operation is to correct the imbalance in the present tariff structure. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that over the years the charges have been tinkered with so much, with bits put on here and bits put on there, that they are out of balance. I hope that we can get them right and that they will stay right for many years.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will make a statement on the progress of the Giro.

The arrangements for setting up the National Giro service continue to make satisfactory progress, and I expect the service to open towards the end of this year as planned.

Would the right hon. Gentleman tell us how it is intended to invest the money which will accrue and how soon he hopes to get £150 million of investment so that the interest rates will cover costs and the break-even point will be reached?

That is another matter. If the hon. Gentleman wants detailed replies to questions like that, he must put down a Question.

Would the Postmaster-General say from the surveys which I know the Post Office has been making what sort of number of customers it expects to have for the Giro in the opening year?

At the moment we are allocating large numbers of registration numbers to business firms. Later this year we hope to start doing this with private individuals as well. The response to date has been rather better than we expected.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will publish a White Paper on the implications of his proposed Post Office reorganisation for the telecommunications industry.

No, Sir. The only such implication, if the hon. Gentleman is referring to the reorganisation now in progress, is that responsibility for relations with the telecommunications industry is being concentrated in a newly created Purchasing and Supply Department.

In view of the magnitude of the telecommunications industry, is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that it would not be better to set it up as a separate public corporation rather than lump it together with the Post Office, as is envisaged?

I am not sure what the hon. Gentleman means. If he means setting up the postal side of the Post Office as a separate business and the telecommunications side as another separate business, that is being done. Managerially the two businesses are quite separate from broad level right down to field level, including the regions. However, there will be one board at the top—one Post Office Corporation at the top of the two businesses.

asked the Postmaster-General what plans he has to reorganise the Post Office magazine Courier, having regard to the loss of £45,661 in the first 12 months of operation to September, 1967; and if he will state the average loss on each copy sold in that period.

The Post Office contribution to the cost of Courier will be reduced during 1968 by £8,500 to about £37,000. The average loss on each copy sold in the first 12 months of operation was 7d. In 1968 this will be reduced to 3·3 pence.

Many large industrial organisations bear the entire cost of their house magazines.

Would the right hon. Gentleman agree, that it is very difficult to justify running a journal of this kind at a loss when the Postmaster-General is seeking to raise postal charges? Would he give an assurance that it is his objective that this enterprise should cover its costs entirely and that if it does not do so it will be discontinued?

I will give no such undertaking. This is money extremely well spent. The Post Office employs 440,000 people, and one of the great problems in it is communications. I believe that this new Post Office newspaper makes a real contribution to improving communications in the Post Office. There are a number of hon. Members present who are associated with firms in which the house magazine costs a great deal more than this and the entire cost is borne by the firm. In the Post Office, the employees pay 3d. for the magazine.

asked the Postmaster-General how many ground terminal stations, civil and military, for satellites will be in operation outside the Communist bloc of countries by the end of 1968; and how many of these will be British made.

About 20 civil earth stations for commercial use are expected to be operational by the end of 1968. Two of them are British made. Military terminals are a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence.

Is not this a very disappointing share of the world market in this most important matter? Does not the Minister agree that unless Britain has a properly co-ordinated national space programme and is able to offer to customer countries launcher, satellite and ground station, we shall never properly break into this market?

It is not so much a matter of Government policy. It is, again, a matter of British firms becoming more competitive. The hon. Member will be pleased to know that Cable and Wireless has recently given two orders for earth stations, one in Bahrain and the other in Hong Kong. However, unless the British firms which are interested in this trade make an effort to become competitive, they will be frozen out of the market. They really must make a bigger effort.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he will seek to acquire the land and buildings of the Associated Electrical Industries Advanced Development Laboratories at Blackheath, London, S.E.3, which have been declared surplus to requirement by the General Electric Company, with a view to integrating both the laboratory and the highly skilled research teams into the Post Office's research programme.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will seek to acquire the General Electric Company-Associated Electrical Industries factory at Sydenham, London, S.E.26, to enable the Post Office to manufacture telecommunications equipment.

After careful consideration I have reluctantly concluded that I cannot take over either A.E.I.'s factories or research establishments.

The telecommunications industry's plans for expansion in development areas should be sufficient soon to satisfy my needs for equipment. As regards research, I am already committed to plans to concentrate all of it at Martlesham to improve efficiency and as a dispersal measure.

I shall, however, be very glad to consider applications for employment in the Post Office from any suitably qualified staff whom we can fit into our organisation.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that that is a very disappointing reply, because if this research laboratory closes some valuable research teams will be broken up, that the staff concerned are completely disillusioned with the General Electric Company and that, in any event, the work will be transferred to such notorious areas of underdevelopment as Wembley and Coventry?

I think that most of the research workers will be absorbed into the G.E.C.'s own research work, and we ourselves will be willing to take some as well. I do not think, therefore, that there is any employment problem. As I have said, the Post Office will concentrate the whole of its research from Dollis Hill and three other places on a 100-acre site near Ipswich on which work has already started.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that whilst the latter part of his reply is helpful, the general tenor of his reply is disappointing in view of the re marks in his speech to a recent telecommunications dinner about the need for an extension of pubilc ownership in telecommunications to offset the failure of private enterprise to supply equipment? Will he not reconsider the need to take over the small purpose-built factory in Sydenham for this purpose?

The purpose-built factory at Sydenham does not make telephone exchanges, which is our great bottleneck, and it is too small to make them. It makes private telephone equipment. If we took it over, we should have to retool the whole thing. That would be a very long job and there would be no work for the men there in the meantime. As I say, in view of its size, it is doubtful whether that factory would be an economic proposition. If the Post Office is to go into the manufacture of equipment, it will not take over old factories which somebody else has abandoned. It will take over new factories and build things under the best posstible conditions in the development areas.

Does the Post Office at present have power to manufacture?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will give details of nonclassified research work being done for his Department by the Royal Aircraft Establishment, Farnborough.

The Royal Aircraft Establishment does not carry out non-classified work for the Post Office. There is however an exchange of information on scientific matters, for example, concerning radio and satellite communication systems, via the Committees of the Electronics Research Council and by other channels.

With Dollis Hill, and Ipswich in the future, is it not making it impossible to take advantage of the work done at Farnborough in particular and at other defence research establishments in general?

There is a very close exchange of information between us, and the last major work was that which appeared in the Follett Report at the end of 1963.

asked the Postmaster-General how much capital to date has been invested in the Post Office in the last 10 years.

In the 10 years to 31st March, 1967, £1,479 million, of which £663 million has been invested in the three years 1964 to 1967. Expenditure in the current financial year is expected to be £319 million.

How much of the £2,000 million which the right hon. Gentleman said would be invested in the next five years will be invested in such projects as communications satellites and how much will go into extravagant schemes like local radio stations?

None at all will go in local radio stations. The £2,000 million was for the Post Office. Incidentally, I should not have called satellites "extravagant" schemes. They are replacing submarine cables now. Apparently the hon. Gentleman does not realise that.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how much of the £660 million invested in the last three years was planned and ready for installation when the present Government took over?

I cannot break up the figure, but I will write to the hon. Gentleman and give him separate figures for the three years, although he can see the massive build-up over that time.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is it in order for the right hon. Gentleman to say words which I did not use, to the effect that satellite investment was extravagant?

Order. We must get on with the Questions.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will seek to make an ex-gratia payment to Mrs. C. J. Parker in compensation for the consequential loss of £114 suffered by the constituent of the hon. Member for Richmond, Surrey, due to devaluation and the misdelivery of a letter addressed to Mrs. Parker.

No, Sir. To do so would open the door to an unlimited compensation liability which we could not possibly take on.

Would the hon. Gentleman look at this again? Is he aware that my constituent has lost a large sum of money solely due to mismanagement of the economy by the Government, ending with devaluation, and the inefficiency of the Post Office in the misdelivery of a letter? Will he look at the matter again and provide an ex-gratia payment for my constituent?

I have gone into this matter, and I have looked at it again to see what could be done. I must point out, however, that we handle 35 million items every day and, although only a small percentage is mishandled, we could not pay compensation for every unregistered letter which was delayed.

In view of the thoroughly unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will increase the maximum permitted size of overseas parcels containing goods for export.

My right hon. Friend is considering how far we might be able to meet any demand for such an increase, consistent with our international obligations.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the present limit frequently makes multiple packing necessary, to the general detriment of the country's exports? Can he tell the House what are our international obligations?

The position is that we cannot accept larger or heavier parcels for dispatch to other countries than we are prepared to accept from those countries for delivery here, except with the consent of the other postal administrations concerned. My right hon. Friend is considering how far we might be able to meet the demand.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that that seems to be an extremely good supplementary question? Can he tell us why we will not accept bigger parcels here?

There is so much that we have to take into consideration. We have been carrying out different forms of mechanisation within the Post Office to deal with the parcels service, and all these matters have to be taken into consideration before we can determine whether there shall be a change-over.

asked the Postmaster-General what success has resulted from his efforts to provide alternative arrangements for the payment of pensions to pensioner, who would otherwise have suffered inconvenience, following the closing down of the sub-post office in High Road, Wembley.

I am happy to say that, as a temporary arrangement, pensions are now paid on Fridays between 9.15 a.m. and 12.45 p.m. in the British Red Cross Society's premises which are at 563 High Road, Wembley and opposite the former sub-post office. We are continuing our efforts to open a new sub-office in the area.

May I thank the Minister and his Department for their efforts on behalf of pensioners? Will he also try the side roads as well as the High Road to see if he can find premises for the post office?

I will take note of that.

asked the Postmaster-General whether, in view of the increasing number of retirement pensioners, he will consider an increase in the number of sub-post offices or alternative arrangements for the payment of retirement pensions.

asked the Postmaster-General whether, in areas such as Blackpool with a high proportion of retirement pensioners, he will review the facilities available through the Post Office for payment of such pensions; and, if necessary, if he will consider alternative arrangements.

There are currently about 25,000 post offices. Pensions are paid at all of them and hte needs of pensioners are taken into account in deciding where and when to open new offices.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that reply and I am glad to note from his Answer to Question No. 29 that he is taking care of this problem. I hope it is realised that many pensioners in cities have to cross busy roads. I hope that he will discuss the matter with his right hon. Friend the Minister of Social Security.

I agree with everything that my hon. Friend has said about this, but every new Post Office that we open means an increase in our costs, without any corresponding increase in revenue. We therefore try to strike a balance between the reasonable needs of the public, and the costs of providing the service.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will make a statement on the postal services to Torrington, in view of the closure of Bideford Bridge.

Early morning mails have been delayed by about 30 minutes; but we are putting this right and I will write to the hon. Member about the matter.

My information is that the delays are considerably longer than that. As this area has already suffered enough in various other ways, will the hon. Gentleman at least ensure that the mails can be delivered on time?

We do everything that we can to meet that position. We have had to consider various means of rerouting mails and taking care that no community suffers because of what happened, but I shall write to the hon. Gentleman about this.

asked the Postmaster-General what will be the cost of introducing the alpha-numeric form of address coding system.

About £1,660,000 to code 75 major towns by 1970. Introduction of postcodes is an essential preliminary to the use of automatic letter sorting machinery which will produce substantial savings.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that receiving a letter is a personal thing, and that this change to using a code instead of an address is an exercise which is not really worth the expense involved, in view of the impersonal nature of the new form?

We are not changing to anything. The code is to be added to the address. This is essential, because it is the code which makes the machinery work. By the end of our mechanisation programme we estimate that the return on this system will be about 20 per cent.

asked the Postmaster-General what proposals he has for changing the type of General Post Office pillar boxes at present in use throughout the country.

Much will depend on experiments beginning shortly with 200 rectangular posting boxes which will be more easily cleared and maintained; we do not, of course, intend to replace all our existing boxes.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in changing from round pillar boxes to square ones his right hon. Friend is putting himself into the position where he is not "with it" at all? Is not this going to be a totally unnecessary expense? These pillar boxes do not wear out. Why should we have to change them?

I always thought that the hon. Gentleman was in favour of progress. We have to consider the conditions under which our postmen work. In some cases they have to get down to ground level to remove the letters. With these new boxes they will be able to remain standing to collect the mail.

asked the Postmaster-General what progress has been made in providing additional public telephone kiosks on the council estates in Northolt, Middlesex.

The additional kiosks will be provided later this month to serve the Yeading Green estates.

I am very grateful for that encouraging reply. However, would my hon. Friend note that there are estates in need of kiosks other than those he has mentioned? Will my hon. Friend give Northolt the consideration which it deserves?

Every application made to the Department for the setting-up of kiosks in various areas is given serious consideration. I know the great interest of my hon. Friend in this matter since as far back as February, 1967. I am delighted that we have been able to meet his request.

asked the Postmaster-General the estimated increase in manpower in his Department because of the altering of public automatic telephone mechanisms as a result of the introduction of decimal currency in 1971; and if he will list the areas involved in the change.

We hope to make the change without any specific increase in manpower. Coin boxes and telephone exchanges in all parts of the country will be involved.

I note with interest what my hon. Friend says about no increase being expected in manpower. Can he say precisely what the specific modifications involve?

The modifications will be to about 75,000 public and 150,000 privately-rented coin boxes which will have to be adapted to take the new coins. Equipment in 6,000 automatic telephone exchanges will have to be altered.

asked the Postmaster-General what percentage of orders for telephone equipment is running behind the delivery schedule.

About 80 per cent.

Is not that a distressing Answer? Would not my right hon. Friend agree that hon. Members opposite could serve a more useful purpose by directing their energies away from abusing the Post Office and towards private enterprise, which is letting the country down?

This is the major cause of our trouble in providing telephones and of the congestion in the system. In the 1950s, the demand for telephones in the 1960s was under-estimated. However, the industry has in the last few years made very great efforts, especially in the development areas. The crisis now is not so much one of capacity. The capacity is coming up to the point where it is adequate. The problem now is one of control of production and stores and I think that the industry will shortly get this in balance. I certainly hope so.

Does that mean that the right hon. Gentleman is no longer continuing his threat to import equipment because of the supposed slowness of things being supplied at home?

If the choice at the end of the line was between utter chaos and importing equipment, I would not hesitate to import it. I hope, however, that the industry will not drive me to do that.

To what extent can foreign suppliers supply this type of equipment?

We are now using a certain amount of cross-bar equipment and I think that there would be a possibility of foreign suppliers supplying it. I repeat, however, that this would be done only in the last resort and that I hope that we will never be driven to do it.

asked the Postmaster-General how many telephones were manufactured in 1964, 1965, 1966 and 1967, respectively; and what will be the estimated number in 1968, 1969 and 1970; and what are the respective percentages for development areas, including specific figures for the Northern Region.

As the Answer is a table of figures, I am circulating it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

I trust that, when the figures are circulated, they will prove to be helpful to the Northern Region. May I ask my hon. Friend if he is fully seized of the vital importance of concentrating as much of this work as possible within the development areas?

Yes, and I can assure my hon. Friend that the greater proportion of the manufacture of telephones takes place in the development areas. When he sees the figures in the OFFICIAL REPORT, I am sure that he will be pleased with them.

Can the hon. Gentleman say what effect the fire at the Plessey factory in Yorkshire, causing £3 million damage, has had on the production of telephones?

No.

asked the Postmaster-General what is the number of applications for the installation of telephone equipment at present on the waiting list; and how many of these have been placed for over six months.

131,200 and 46,000, respectively, at 31st January.

Particularly in view of the requirement of a year's rent in advance, would not the Postmaster-General agree that the figure is still disconcertingly high, and can he hold out any hopes of reducing it?

It has shown that the year's rental in advance has nothing to do with it. In fact, the figure has gone up, and not down. As soon as the equipment supplies for the exchanges from the manufacturers are up to scratch, we hope that the figure will drop dramatically.

asked the Postmaster-General why he has decided to stop commercial advertising in telephone kiosks.

Because the contract is coming to an end and I am taking the opportunity to review the position and will write to the hon. Gentleman when I have done so.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say how much revenue the G.P.O. is likely to lose from this venture? Does not he recognise the usefulness of the service provided by commercial advertising, and does he consider that a proportion would be advisable in the service?

I have never said that we are ending advertising. The Press statement was put out by the firm whose contract is being ended. The figure is wrong. The revenue is £100,000 a year, and costs about £25,000. I am reviewing the position. We also run a business, and have to do advertising.

asked the Postmaster-General to what extent telephone lines are not being used in daytime and in the evening to their full capacity, and in which areas of the country.

There is normally some spare capacity outside the busiest hour. The general pattern is a high morning peak, a lower afternoon peak and an evening peak, but because of a temporary shortage of plant there is at present little spare capacity during the working day on lines linking some telephone exchanges, particularly in the Home Counties, the Midlands and the North-East.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether anything is being done to try to spread the load in those areas where the peak is too high?

The whole aim is to provide enough lines between telephone exchanges to carry the traffic during the busiest hours of the day without perceptible congestion.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will make a statement on the progress of the local sound radio experiment.

asked the Postmaster-General what has been the total cost of establishig local radio stations.

Of the eight stations authorised, five—Brighton, Leicester, Merseyside, Nottingham and Sheffield—are now in operation. The sixth, at Stoke, is due to open on 14th March; and the remaining two, at Durham and Leeds, by the early summer. On the cost and financing of the stations, I have nothing to add to previous Answers. I intend to review the experiment when the stations have been operating for a year or so. The right thing now is surely to let the stations alone to get on with the experiment.—[Vol. 756, c. 458–9; Vol. 757, c. 556–8; Vol. 759, c. 1750.]

Looking ahead, and being confident of the success of this venture, would my hon. Friend assure the House that the B.B.C. will not be starved of revenue, however modest it might be, to encourage the creation of other local radio stations?

We shall have to wait to see. This method of financing the stations is one of the objects of the experiment. It looks as though it is going extremely well in some areas, such as Merseyside and Cheshire, where all the local authorities, including the Cheshire County Council, are co-operating, and less well in other areas. We shall have to wait for a year or so to see how the experiment goes.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many of us on this side of the House think that this is extremely extravagent Government spending and that this matter would have been far better left to private enterprise?

I wonder whether all hon. Members on both sides of the House really think that. One of the great needs today is to improve the quality of communal life. I should have thought that nothing would have improved it more than a communal, publicly-owned station. I know that that means nothing to the hon. Gentleman, but a communally-owned station, tailor-made for the locality, can make a significant contribution to the quality of communal life.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that these stations have been extremely well received by the public in the areas in which they are situated and that there is not necessarily a conflict between public service and private enterprise if this is permitted throughout the country?

There is no conflict between public service and financing them commercially. That is the distinction which I would make.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many highly qualified engineers believe that the daytime use of medium wavelengths for local radio is not only possible but would be a great help to them? Is he absolutely certain that his own advisers are right in saying that this is an impossibility and there is no wavelength available?

I have taken the best technical advice I could get, and I am assured that this is not possible. In addition, there would be the difficulty that as soon as it got dark one would have to switch to a different wavelength. But, apart from that difficulty, I am assured that the use of medium wavelengths during the day is not "on".

asked the Postmaster-General if he will take proceedings against the Independent Television Authority for breach of their statutory duty under Section 3(2,d) of the Television Act, by allowing Lord Thomson of Fleet to appear in the Frost Programme broadcast on 29th November last.

I am informed that the Independent Television Authority has drawn the attention of the programme contractor which produced the programme, and of Lord Thomson, to the fact that there was a contravention of the Act. The Authority is satisfied that the contravention was inadvertent. This will, I think, meet the purpose of my hon. Friend's Question.

In view of the widespread concern in the country about the domination of most channels of communication by a tiny group of tycoons, can my right hon. Friend assure the House that he will use all the powers given to him by Parliament to prevent those tycoons dominating the television screen? Is my right hon. Friend aware that, in the incident in question, my noble Friend Lord Wigg was enticed on to the programme by false pretences and subjected to considerable discourtesy and has there been any expression of contrition?

Order. We cannot have the whole programme in a supplementary question.

In regard to the first point, the contravention of the Act was not that Lord Thomson appeared on television. It was something he said. All of us who know him would, I think, acquit him of any desire deliberately to contravene the Act. I think that it was an inadvertent contravention. However, I.T.A. has now drawn the attention of the contract company to this contravention.

I understand that Lord Wigg has received an apology from the chairman of I.T.A. I very much regret what happened. There were two aspects of it. One was the appearance of Lord Thomson and the other was the appearance of another gentleman with whom Lord Wigg was involved in a libel action. I could not imagine any greater discourtesy than that to Lord Wigg. I am glad that I.T.A. has apologised to him.

While accepting the Postmaster-General's answer, may I nevertheless ask whether he is aware that many hon. Members believe that the restrictions imposed by the Television Act are too strict rather than too lax and that we would, therefore, prefer to see them relaxed rather than tightened?

I should not have thought that the hon. Member would advocate that the proprietor of one of the stations should be allowed to express himself on a controversial issue of the day. This provision was deliberately put in the Act by Parliament.

Surely, the prohibition in question is footling and it is time that the whole question was looked into and restrictive provisions of this sort swept away.

It is not footling at all. It is something basic and important. We do not want television to degenerate into the state in which the British Press at present finds itself.

Was not the trouble on the occasion referred to in the Question caused by the appearance of the editor of the Spectator, for which the hon. Member for Norfolk, Central (Mr. Ian Gilmour) is completely responsible?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is at least a year since I sold the Spectator, so that his right hon. Friend is totally inaccurate?

asked the Postmaster-General in view of the spread of television aerials and the inadequacy of existing master-aerial services, if he will take steps to establish a Post Office master-aerial system and piped television to compete with the existing firms in this field.

A system for distributing television and sound broadcasts by cable is to be provided by the Post Office in Washington New Town. Further developments will be considered in the light of this trial.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the extension of public activity into the sphere of master-aerials would be very welcome on this side of the House? Would he accept that it is only by Post Office intervention that we can break the near-monopoly of the existing private firms and bring them up to scratch?

We hope that the experiment now taking place in the Washington New Town will prove to be the success that we think.

As the Post Office has such difficulty in raising capital, would it not be ridiculous to go into the relay system business, which is notorious for its hunger for capital?

This is a comprehensive cable which takes not only telephones but also radio, television and everything else with it.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will seek powers to direct the British Broadcasting Corporation and the Independent Television Authority in Wales to co-ordinate their programmes linguistically, so that Welsh language programmes are not appearing on both channels simultaneously and likewise that English programmes do not generally appear simultaneously on both channels.

No, Sir. I understand that the timing of Welsh language programmes is already co-ordinated to avoid undesirable clashes as far as possible; but that it would not be practicable to avoid the simultaneous presentation of English language programmes.

Will the Postmaster-General bear in mind that it is extremely annoying to non-Welsh-speaking families to have both channels showing Welsh programmes simultaneously, just as it is annoying to Welsh-speaking families if English programmes are shown simultaneously? I have already given him an example of a simultaneous showing in one language.

I saw the example on 14th February. I cannot pronounce the names of the two programmes, but I know them. The two broadcasting authorities have assured me that they keep in close touch about this. I think that the problem on the occasion to which I have referred was one of congestion due to a party political broadcast and to the Winter Olympics.

asked the Postmaster-General, if he will undertake that there will be no increase in the cost of a television licence to viewers in areas which do not receive the B.B.C. 2 programmes.

I cannot anticipate any decision about the level of licence fees.

When can the people of the South-West, and indeed other areas, hope to get value for money in this and many other Post Office matters?

This is not a Post Office matter, but a broadcasting one. I have looked very carefully at the question of a differential for areas which cannot receive B.B.C. 2. I have also considered a geographical differential. If the hon. Gentleman considers this, he will realise that the only way of working a differential for people who cannot get B.B.C. 2 is to base it on the set, and have a higher licence fee for a set which can receive programmes on 625 lines, but many people in areas such as the hon. Gentleman's have bought a set of this kind, so this would be unfair. I am, however, looking into the question of differentials.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that everybody will be glad to hear that he is considering this? In that we have broken through the differential idea on colour television, I think that this should be given more consideration.

It is true, as the hon. Gentleman said, that we have established a differential with regard to colour television, but there are at least three other possibilities. All I am saying is that they are extremely difficult, if not impossible, but I am considering the matter.