asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether he will take an initiative in the formation of an international consortium to offer aid to Zambia for the construction of the Tanzania-Zambia railway.

No, Sir. I do not think that this would be appropriate.

That surprises me very much. Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that this project would be most effective in reducing Zambia's dependence on communications to the south, which we are very anxious to do, and that it is, therefore, of great political importance, and if we took the initiative, would do a tremendous amount to improve our relations with Zambia?

There are two main points to bear in mind. One is that the economic viability of the project has not yet been proved and a great deal more work needs to be done on it. The other is that our available aid, in view of the present restrictions on the amount that we can spare, would not enable us to do anything substantial in relation to this project, which would, of course, be very expensive.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what plans he has for increasing financial aid to Zambia, in view of the hardship created there by the sanctions policy against Rhodesia.

I have no plans for increasing financial aid beyond that already promised.

Does my right hon. Friend recognise that we have a very special obligation to Zambia in view of the effect on Zambia of the sanctions policy against Rhodesia? What is the difference between what Zambia is requesting and what the Government are giving? Will that be discussed when—which I hope will be very soon—the Prime Minister meets President Kaunda?

My hon. Friend is slightly confusing two problems. First, there is development aid, which comes under my Department, in which respect our main effort is in the form of technical assistance. In fact, 2,000 British personnel are working in Zambia. That is the most important need from the development point of view. But, secondly, there is also contingency aid related to the illegal declaration of independence. That is the responsibility of my right hon. Friend the Commonwealth Secretary, who answered a Question on that subject on 26th March.

Does the Minister realise that even those of us who oppose sanctions sympathise with Zambia in her plight resulting from sanctions? As the Government are prepared to discuss aid and co-operation with such Governments as that of the South Yemen, will they discuss aid and co-operation even with the Government of Rhodesia in order to see whether we can restore economic cooperation in Central Africa?

I am surprised to hear any hon. Member refer to the Government of Rhodesia in those terms. I have said that aid for Zambia related to the illegal declaration of independence is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Commonwealth Secretary.

Bearing in mind the Government's declared intention of not using force in any way against Rhodesia, will the Minister take into account in any aid given to Zambia that force must not be used by Zambia in the way of terrorists being trained in Zambia and going through Zambia into Rhodesia?

Normally, when the aid to Zambia which falls within the responsibility of my Department is being decided, we take a number of factors into account. Zambia has given assurances on that point on many occasions.

Is the Minister aware of the great susceptibility of the Zambian economy to the price of copper, which is extremely volatile? If a deterioration should occur in that respect in the next few years, will he be prepared to take a much more generous view?

The figures which I quoted of personnel serving in Zambia show that we are taking a fairly generous view in relation to what we can afford and to what we manage for other countries. The price of copper has been in favour of the Zambian economy on the whole, and the growth of the Zambian economy in the last two years has been considerably above that of most other African countries. Their greatest need is for skilled personnel, and we are doing a considerable amount to help them meet it.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development if he will make a statement on the financial assistance given by Her Majesty's Government to Swaziland on independence.

For the financial year 1968–69 we are providing, subject to Parliamentary approval where necessary, budgetary and development aid totalling £2·6 million, plus technical assistance and loans to help meet the cost of compensation payments to expatriate officials.

Would the right hon. Gentleman undertake that the talks will be held well before independence? Will they concern a three-year period after independence, as was the case with Botswana and Lesotho?

The dates of the talks are not yet fixed, but will be fixed in consultation with the Swaziland Government. It may be before or after independence, but this will be discussed with them. There are many other cases in which talks have been held after independence, and they have been successful. As to the duration of aid settlements, this will be discussed at the talks.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development if he will make a statement on British aid for South Yemen.

It was agreed at Geneva that, pending further discussions, aid would be continued for six months, that is, until the end of May. As already announced, we expect to resume negotiations with the Southern Yemen Government on aid and other outstanding matters in the latter half of April.

When discussing what aid, if any, is to be given to the South Yemen Government, would the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that British officials on contract have been summarily dismissed and that Federal Ministers and civil servants are in prison, their only crime being loyalty to the then legal Government and its British allies?

We will bear in mind all relevant considerations, including those which the hon. Gentleman has mentioned. But we are, of course, committed to holding these talks, although we are not committed in any other way, and I would not like to prejudge what may be said at them.

Will the right hon. Gentleman not only bear in mind but take very seriously the fact that the present régime has sentenced to death its own citizens for no other offence than service to the British rule in Aden? In these circumstances, would it not be indecent to provide any aid at all to the Yemen?

I have said that all these things will be carefully borne in mind at the time.

Would my right hon. Friend also bear in mind that Scots boys belonging to the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders were killed and cruelly wounded by this very régime not so long ago? Will that be borne in mind before he gives them a single penny?

The whole of the background of recent years and the present situation will have to be taken into account in considering our policy at these talks.

That is a very cynical answer which the right hon. Gentleman has given. Does he really feel that it is more justifiable to give aid to these people in South Arabia, under all the circumstances described by my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston-upon-Thames (Mr. Boyd-Carpenter), than to give it to Zambia, whose position has been completely prejudiced by our Rhodesian policy?

I have already said that we are committed to holding these talks towards the end of April, and I have also said that I would not want to prejudice their outcome. I do not want to go beyond that, and I have not made any remarks which would suggest any comparison between the need for aid in Southern Yemen and that for any other country.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether he is in a position to make any further statement on the subject of widows' pensions payable from the Ceylon Widows and Orphans Pension Fund.

No substantive reply has yet been received to our representations to the Government of Ceylon on behalf of these pensioners. My right hon. Friend took the opportunity of his recent brief visit to Ceylon to raise the matter with the Ceylonese Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance and he was assured that it was being considered.

Will the Minister bear in mind that the widows of servants recruited by the Secretary of State to serve the Crown are being paid in rupees which have been devalued more than has the British £ and that many of them are in dire straits?

Yes. We recognise that. That is the basis of the representations which we have made.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development how many pensioners of Her Majesty's Overseas Service or their widows live in countries which have not devalued their currency in line with sterling.

Comprehensive information is not available. The pensioners concerned receive their pensions from the oversea countries in whose public service they were employed and not all the relevant pension records are available here.

Will the Minister bear in mind that many of these pensioners, when recruited by the Secretary of State to serve the Crown, came from countries in the Commonwealth and not only from Britain, and that nothing was said on recruitment about where they should live on retirement?

I recognise that. My right hon. Friend has agreed to see the association representative of these pensioners and I have no doubt that that kind of consideration will be taken up in their talks.

The House has always been very sensitive to the position of pensioners serving overseas and their dependants. In view of what the Minister said earlier about the position in Ceylon, and in view of his answer, will he undertake to have a statement made, soon after we return from the Recess, about how the Government view the whole position of pensioners serving overseas and their dependants?

I have indicated that a meeting is projected with the association, and any statement might well be considered following that meeting.

Will the Minister bear in mind that when these people went overseas they were serving this country as well as the country overseas and that we have to accept full responsibility for them?

Accepting full responsibility is a very much wider issue than that raised by the Question on the Order Paper.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development how many meetings with representatives of British business interests in Singapore and Malaysia were held either in this country or on the spot by the senior officials of his Department who recently twice visited these countries and had talks with the Governments of Singapore and Malaysia to discuss Her Majesty's Government's offer of additional aid to compensate for the accelerated withdrawal of United Kingdom forces.

It is not possible to give an exact figure but a number of such meetings have been held both in London and in the two countries, including several with representatives of the Confederation of British Industries.

While I am glad to hear that some meetings have been held, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that there has been a great deal of criticism in business circles in Singapore and Malaysia that contact was not made by the Dudley Mission with established British firms which are in a very good position to advise how aid should be suitably employed after the British defence withdrawal?

When Sir Alan Dudley went to Singapore and Malaysia in October last year and again in February-March this year, he was concerned with talking to the Governments of those countries. He was concerned with talking to them about Government-Government relationships; he had a very busy programme, and he concentrated on talks with Governments. But apart from that, there have been a large number of meetings, both in London and in those countries, with very important companies about the part which private enterprise can play in the future.

Did Sir Alan Dudley or did he not meet British firms? There is an impression abroad that they were neglected.

During the two visits to which I referred, he concentrated on talks with the two Governments concerned, and I am sure that that was right. But other representatives of Her Majesty's Government have talked to business interests in the two countries concerned and to the British offices of British firms who have businesses out there.

I must press the matter. While I acknowledge that there have been some meetings with British business interests who approached Sir Alan Dudley when he went out there, they were told at the time that the discussions were such that he could see no usefulness in discussing the matter with British business interests. That seems to me wholly wrong, in view of the fact that British aid is to be offered to these countries and that British interests out there are obviously in a very good position to advise how it should be used.

I have already indicated that there has been a great deal of contact with British firms and the C.B.I. about the whole question, but I must reiterate that during the two missions mentioned, Sir Alan Dudley and his colleagues were very busy talking on a Government-Government basis about the pooling of aid, the terms of aid and a number of other difficult and complicated questions which had to be settled.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what has been the total gross cost to public funds of British overseas aid since October, 1964.

£654 million to 30th December, 1967.

Does the Minister not agree that it is high time that the Government gave half a day for a full debate on this large expenditure of the taxpayers-money?

I should welcome a debate on the subject and I hope that the hon. Member will have a word with his right hon. Friend on his own Front Bench about the use of a Supply Day for this purpose. I should welcome any chance to debate this matter and to justify what we are doing.

Is not some of this aid spent on the purchase of goods made in this country?

A great deal of it is and. therefore, I would welcome the chance to have a debate to explain at some length a case for the aid programme, both in terms of the good it does for developing countries and also in terms of the good it does in the long-term interests of the economy of this country.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we on the Liberal bench welcome expenditure on overseas aid up to the limit that has been announced? However, is he aware that there has been a tremendous change of emphasis in the disbursement of overseas aid from Communist countries in the last year or two in favour of South America and Africa as opposed to Asia and the Middle East? Will he bear this in mind in the disbursement of British overseas aid?

In the disbursement of British overseas aid we are obviously concerned with the pattern of aid from other countries in considering the total effect of the flow of aid from the developed to the developing countries.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that many hon. Members on this side of the House would deprecate any diminution in the amount of overseas aid that is given and that we, too, would like to have a debate to discuss the way in which the overseas aid programme is carried out?

I am glad to have that expression of support, which I think reflects the feeling of the majority of hon. Members. I very much welcome the recent initiative taken by the youth organisations of the three main political parties in issuing a joint manifesto on this subject, and that deserves wide support.

Surely, when the Government wish to spend large sums of the taxpayer's money, however well spent it may be—or, as some may think, not so well spent—we should have a debate in Government time?

I would welcome a debate on this subject in anybody's time.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that this country has spent less in total on aid since the war than on defence in one year? Is he aware that many people feel that a more effective way of combating Communism and keeping world peace would be to work towards a reversal of that proportion?

I have a great deal of sympathy with that view—[HON MEMBERS: "Oh."]—and I hope that it will become the situation in years to come, when countries generally, and not just Britain, will spend more of their resources on development aid and not on armaments.

Would the right hon. Gentleman agree that however valuable aid is, trade is even more valuable?

We must see the two together. The development of these countries depends on the flow of aid and on proper trade conditions.

Is it not time that the Government thought of reaching the 1 per cent. of our national income target which was set a long time ago?

When the target was defined by the first U.N.C.T.A.D. Conference, we were surpassing it and had done for some years. The target has been revised by the recent U.N.C.T.A.D. Conference to mean 1 per cent. of G.N.P. rather than of national income. In that respect we are not reaching it, and nor are most other countries. I agree that we should take the new target seriously and use our best endeavours to reach it in the years ahead.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that about 5 per cent. of the annual aid which we give goes to developing countries to meet their pension obligations to our former overseas civil servants? Would it not be better if Her Majesty's Government took over this liability, as has every other ex-colonial Power, and so relieve the worries of these pensioners?

No, Sir. I think that, on balance, it is better that we should continue as we are doing at present; that we should make development loans which take into account the liability the hon. Gentleman mentioned and which also take into account their general circumstances.

Reverting to the question of a debate on this matter, would my right hon. Friend agree that it might be desirable to await the report from the Sub-Committee of the Estimates Committee which is dealing with these very points, since that would enable the House to be apprised of all the information?

The presentation of that report might be a convenient moment for a debate. In view of the number of hon. Members on both sides of the House who have asked for a debate on this matter, I will draw these expressions of opinion to the attention of my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development how many scholarships have been awarded to Somali students for the academic year 1968–69.

At present none; but with the resumption of diplomatic relations we shall be willing to consider suitable requests.

Will the Minister constantly keep in mind the significant changes that are taking place in Somalia, such as in the change in the Italian-speaking south to the English tongue, and the need for that country to send many students to Britain for, for example, teacher training and hospital training for nurses?

The Somali Government know of the facilities we have for providing technical assistance. As I have said, we will be willing to consider any requests covering the spheres mentioned by my hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development if he will make a statement on British aid to the Republic of Somalia.

During the recent visit of the Prime Minister it was agreed in principle that some technical assistance would be made available to the Government of Somalia. Details have not yet been worked out, but an officer of my Ministry is shortly visiting Somalia for discussions.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that he may find himself in a cleft stick over the financial limit of £205 million overall? Is he aware of the need for space to manoeuvre, as it were, in this matter and will he consider some of the schemes in the former British Somaliland; for example, that for improving water supplies to the old capital of Hargeisa?

In view of the tightness of the financial situation, I have had to make the decision that we could not do anything at the moment for Somali in terms of capital aid. However, we can do a great deal in terms of technical assistance and, to plan that effectively, one of my officers will shortly be going to the country.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what technical or financial aid he proposes to give to St. Lucia, to clear the Gros Islet district of sand flies.

Reports on the sandfly problem in this area have recently been made on the initiative of the Commonwealth Development Corporation and with the co-operation of the Ministry, following which we have received a request from the Government of St. Lucia for technical assistance to examine the feasibility of control measures. The Ministry's Medical Research Adviser is currently visiting the Caribbean and is discussing this request with the Government of St. Lucia and others.

While thanking the Minister for that partially reassuring Answer, may I ask him to note that the Beach Hotel, the main hotel there operated by the Commonwealth Development Corporation, is sited on a marsh, that many of the people who stay there are bitten by sand flies and cancel the remainder of their bookings, which creates a bad impression for the tourist trade which is so much required to help the economy there?

I am aware of the particularly bad effect that this is having on this hotel and the consequent effect it is having on the tourist industry. It is with this in mind that we are willing to consider all the help that can be given.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development under what clause or section of the Overseas Aid Service Scheme he refused to designate Mr. G. B. Sayle, of Putney, for flying service in Uganda.

The requirements for designation are laid down by the Minister under Section 2 of the Overseas Development and Service Act, 1965.

Why has my right hon. Friend refused to designate Mr. Sayle for this service? As he is a British subject and has been resident in this country for a year since his return from Canada, and as he does valuable crop spraying work, why has my right hon. Friend refused to designate this willing person to go to Uganda to carry out this valuable work?

One of the important considerations for designation is normal residence in this country. It is quite clear from Mr. Sayle's record that he does not qualify under that heading.

On a point of order. In view of my hon. Friend's highly unsatisfactory reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will introduce legislation to enable him to require the Independent Television Authority to withdraw the licence of any programme company whose control is materially changed by acquisition or merger.

No, Sir.

Will my right hon. Friend reconsider this matter and at least amplify his brief but inadequate Answer? Is it not a fact that the award of a licence can represent an award to print money? Is it not desirable that this award should be given to a company only if the nature of the company remains the same? Will he look at the matter again?

I do not think that it is necessary to look at the matter again. My hon. Friend is, I think, really concerned with something developing from a merger and I suggest, therefore, that as he is probably thinking in terms of a monopoly position being established, he should direct his remarks to the President of the Board of Trade.

In this connection, would my right hon. Friend require the Authority to publish the bids of the successful contracting companies so that when they commence transmitting in July their performance can be measured against their previous promises?

I cannot promise to do that.

Why should not the enormous profits of the independent television companies be used to finance the B.S.C. so that old people, pensioners and the public alike are not called upon to pay the licence fee?

That has been considered but, so far, without success.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the principle that is involved here—that the whole object of the Independent Television Act was to ensure that the distribution and control of programme companies is widely spread? Does not every merger that takes place go some way towards defeating the purpose of the Act?

No, not at this stage, but if it developed into a monopoly position I believe that my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade would be the right person to examine it.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will take steps to give complete independence to the British Broadcasting Corporation, and especially its overseas services, from governmental control or interference.

The B.B.C. already has complete responsibility for matters of programme content, in the external services as well as in the home services.

How, then, does my right hon. Friend explain the fact that Sir Anthony Eden, as Prime Minister in 1956, threatened to introduce legislation at the time of the Suez crisis to take over the B.B.C., and that had it not been for the firm management at the top of the B.B.C. e might have achieved that sinister objective?

I know that a book has been published alleging such things, but I cannot comment on the accuracy of Press reports emanating from it.

Will my right hon. Friend look at the rather hair-raising revelations contained in Mr. Harman Grisewood's recent book about the pressures applied to the B.B.C. by the then Conservative Government in 1956 during the Suez crisis? Does not my right hon. Friend blink that there is a very strong case for a thorough investigation into those revelations?

No, Sir, because the B.B.C. has always retained its independence in these matters.

Does the freedom of the B.B.C. include the power to accept advertisements so as to relieve local ratepayers of the cost of a local radio service?

No, Sir.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of those replies, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Postmaster-General what action he proposes to take regarding proposals by local authorities to set up local commercial radio stations.

There has been one such proposal. My Department will refer the local authority to the White Paper on Broadcasting (Cmnd. 3169) of December, 1966.

Can my right hon. Friend say what he proposes to do about that proposal? Will he bear in mind that many of us are very concerned about any introduction of commercial stations and the effect they could have on local newspapers, because they would siphon off advertising revenue? Will he confirm that there is no intention—

Order. Questions must be brief.

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that there is no intention of introducing them?

Yes, Sir. An 8-station experiment is being conducted by the B.B.C., and no further developments in local radio will be authorised until the experiment has run its course and has been evaluated.

Is the Postmaster-General aware that the public will be very anxious to know his attitude to commercial radio? Does he subscribe to the view of his predecessor that the entertainment of the people should not be the by-product of the search for profits?

We are dealing here with one proposal, and hon. Gentlemen know whence it came. I shall refer them to the White Paper, which is present policy.

asked the Postmaster-General at how many post offices the "I'm Backing Britain" postmark was taken into use and at how many it is still in use.

It was used at 125 post offices throughout the United Kingdom from 9th February until 29th February.

In view of his announcement yesterday, does not the Postmaster-General think that it would be as well if this postmark were withdrawn, or does he feel that any firm claiming in this way to be backing Britain has the right to raise its charges by 8 per cent.?

In this case, we chase the largest post offices. Every region was represented. We gave 21 days for the operation, and 84 million letters were franked. That was the Post Office's contribution to backing Britain.

asked the Postmaster-General when he will announce the proposed increases in postal charges.

I made a statement yesterday.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that when answering questions yesterday, he said that his future pricing policy would be based on a combination of the criteria of the prices and incomes policy and the policy laid down in the White Paper on the nationalised industries? Does not the scale of yesterday's charges prove once and for all that such a combination is an impossible contradiction as, indeed, was clearly stated in paragraph 14 of the Report of the Prices and Incomes Board?

No, Sir. As I said yesterday, the scale of these charges will affect the cost-of-living index only by·01 per cent.

Does the Postmaster-General appreciate that the rise in the cost of telephone charges puts a very serious handicap on the elderly? His predecessor was looking into the question of how elderly people could be helped with their telephone charges: will he give an assurance that he will continue in that way?

I thought that I answered that point fully yesterday afternoon.

asked the Postmaster-General by what means he plans to introduce an element of competition into the bulk supply agreements in respect of exchange equipment.

The percentage of orders which may be placed with firms not parties to the agreement is being increased from 10 to 25 per cent. My Department will play a more decisive part in the allocation of orders, taking account of quality and delivery performance; and there will thus be an element of competition based upon these criteria within the agreement.

Is there to be any competition in price?

Price, quality and date of delivery are always taken into consideration.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that one way of introducing an element of competition would be to set up in our development areas, State-owned factories producing this kind of equipment, as we promised at the last election?

I am aware of the proposal, but I hope that my hon. Friend will take note that this is a useful first step where we have stepped up the reservation clause from 10 per cent. to 25 per cent. so that more firms that were outside the initial agreement will be now able to compete very effectively for Post Office orders.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will extend the service to be provided by the Post Office giro, so as to use it for payment of National Insurance benefits and family allowances.

Arrangements are in hand to pay some benefits by giro payment order when the service begins. My right hon. Friend the Minister of Social Security does not consider this a suitable method for the payment of regular long-term benefits.

Does not the Postmaster-General agree that the operations of the National Insurance Fund and, indeed, of the Pay-As-You-Earn Income Tax system, have become completely obsolete and incomprehensible; and that the advent of the Post Office giro is a golden opportunity to review the whole basis of cash transactions between the individual and the community so that in future they can be handled by electronic data-processing equipment?

The giro system will deal initially with unemployment and sickness benefits. The hon. Gentleman's initial point is not a matter for my Department.

Where those transactions involve sending mail under the frank "O.H.M.S.", will that mail go at first-or second-class rate?

That supplementary question does not arise from the Question on the Order Paper.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he has considered the information which has been sent to him by the hon. Member for Antrim, South, on the matter of grants from public funds by the Arts Council; and what action he proses to take.

I have seen the newspaper article which the hon. and learned Gentleman has sent me. Some of the statements are not correct, but whether grants are made is entirely a matter for the Arts Council.

If the Daily Mail is correct in the example it gives—and I have no reason to think otherwise—is it not scandalous that £1,800 of public money should be used to subsidise a magazine so squalid that W. H. Smith and Company will not sell it?

I have said that some of the information in the article is inaccurate. It would be most improper for us to go into this matter in detail here, but we are very fortunate in having an Arts Council which says in its report that mistakes are inevitable but that it would be a counsel of despair not to go on with its job. I am not taking as accurate anything that has appeared in this article.

Will my right hon. Friend look again at the possibility of making it a condition of giving Government grants to dramatic companies that those companies undertake a certain amount of provincial touring?

I can assure my hon. Friend that our great companies are very eager to do this, and as far as is possible with the money at our disposal we want to do everything we can to see that the regions have as many visits as possible paid to them by the large companies.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware of the fact that in the recent case of R. v. Sokol at Leeds Assizes the effect of recent legislation was to prevent any public knowledge of the facts relating to a case of murder being available to the Press and public either at the committal or trial stage; and whether, in view of the need that public justice be seen publicly to be done, he will introduce amending legislation.

A circular was sent to chief constables on the provisions of the recent Criminal Justice Act, recommended that in circumstances such as those of the case to which the right hon. Gentleman refers the prosecution should outline the facts in open court before sentence was passed. In view of the recent Practice Direction to this effect by the Lord Chief Justice, which I have brought to the attention of all courts of assize and quarter sessions, I see no need for legislation.

As very serious constitutional issues were brought to light in this case, and as what was done under a very learned and experienced judge is apparently perfectly lawful, would it not be better in due course at any rate to put the matter completely beyond doubt and to secure by legislation that public justice is done in public?

I do not differ from the right hon. Gentleman in believing that this is a serious matter, but I certainly would not want to give any promise of reconsidering the Act passed only last year after detailed consideration of the consequences of passing it—it was passed in the full knowledge of what would arise—because for very good reasons it would not be proper to outline in answer to a Question now. It was fully considered at the time.

To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how much money Huntingdonshire and Peterborough will be authorised to spend on civil defence matters during the financial year 1968–69; and how much of it will be contributed by the Exchequer.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Someone has altered my Question. "Huntingdonshire and Peterborough" should be "the County of Huntingdon and Peterborough".

I think perhaps the right hon. and learned Gentleman should seek to correct the Question, not to charge anyone with altering it.

Discussions are proceeding with the local authorities and it is as yet too early to say how much will be available for each.

Why is it too early? I understand that these matters have already been the subject of discussion and have been negotiated. Is it not a very meagre sum that is being allowed? Is that possibly the reason why we are not being given a straight answer at this moment?

The right hon. and learned Gentleman is quite wrong. There have, of course, been discussions, but the authorities have not yet submitted detailed estimates for 1968–69. Until they do so we cannot give the answer.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will give an assurance that, before giving a decision on the new byelaw proposed by Trinity House concerning the classes of pilots in the London pilotage district, he will consult representatives of shipowning interests on the safety of the route for large ships through the Straits of Dover recom mended in his Department's Notice to Mariners No. 760(P) 5/1967 compared with the coastal route on the north of the Straits.

This application is under consideration and I hope to reach a decision shortly. Interested parties, including the Chamber of Shipping of the United Kingdom, have been consulted, and all factors particularly those relating to the safety of navigation are being taken into account.

Is the Minister aware that a considerable number of superintendents of shipping companies have expressed the view that the new byelaw will cause shipping not to use the safest route? Will he bear this in mind because a certain number of pilots have said that over a period of 10 years this might cause an accident on the scale of the "Torrey Canyon" accident if this byelaw is brought into effect?

We consulted all parties, the representatives of the Chamber of Shipping and so forth, and we have all the opinions and facts. On the basis of that we will make the decision.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will now give details about the form of the inquiry into siting London's third airport; what its terms of reference will be; when it will be set up; when it is likely to be ready to start taking evidence; and how long it is likely to take to complete its work.

We have, as promised, already had some discussion with the Opposition on this matter and we hope to make a statement after the Easter Recess.

Can my hon. Friend say how soon after the Recess a statement is likely to be forthcoming? Will he confirm that ample time will be given once the inquiry gets under way for the people to present their views, because this is a more extensive operation than that of a normal public inquiry?

I understand the second point made by the hon. Member and I certainly give the assurance that a statement will be made after Easter.

Will the hon. Gentleman be good enough to consult me before he comes to a final decision?

I will do that with the greatest pleasure.

Will my hon. Friend take note that there is a great need for adequate publicity to be given in those areas which are now threatened with the possibility of a third London Airport? Will he give an undertaking that areas in Kent will have full publicity given to the fact that this threat hangs over their heads?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Minister of Labour what retraining facilities will be offered to miners losing their jobs when the Whitburn pit in County Durham is closed.

I understand that a large number of these miners wil be offered jobs at adjoining pits and that comparatively few of them are likely to require work outside coalmining. Where retraining at operator level is required, it can usually best be given by their new employers, with help of the Industrial Training Boards and of the Government grants which are available to assist such training in development areas. Those miners who want and are suitable for the accelerated training for skill given by Government training centres will be able to obtain it at the Felling Centre or at any other of the 38 centres where the trade of their choice is taught.

Will my hon. Friend give an assurance that the more than 200 men over 55 will not be excepted from the opportunity of having training courses merely by reason of the fact of pension facilities?

I give my right hon. Friend that assurance with pleasure, and I give the assurance to men over 55 that their age is no reason to assume that they are not suitable for training.