asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what further steps he has now taken to induce the use of home-produced materials instead of imported materials for building construction.

I have nothing to add at present to the information I have already given in reply to a number of Parliamentary Questions.

Having regard to the fact that sterling devaluation is now six months old and the right hon. Gentleman has been professing the need to restrict and curtail imports of building materials since that date, may I ask whether he can say when his exhortations to professional advisers and others will begin to be effective?

With my Department I have taken what necessary action is required. The hon. Gentleman is quite right to point out that this concerns professional advisers to the private sector. I can only ask for their help and guidance. They are trying to give that. I think I have their good will, but I have no power to instruct them.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what plans he has to plant creepers that will grow properly on the north face of the Citadel in the Mall.

At least six attempts have been made to grow various species of creeper on the north side of this building, but so far without success. A further attempt will be made shortly.

Will the Minister try fan-shaped morello cherries, which grow particularly well without any sunlight and look extremely attractive at this time of year?

That sounds marvellous; I will try anything. I am told that there have been five attempts. I gather that as this is on the north side, the climate is not favourable to these kind of creepers, although there are one or two others I could think of.

What plans has my right hon. Friend for removing the Citadel, which was put up temporarily in wartime?

I should like notice of that.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what plans he has to improve the north face of the high wall at Hyde Park Corner.

None, Sir.

Does not the Minister regard that high wall at Hyde Park Corner as very ugly in a very important place in the capital of Britain? Could he not take an example from capital cities in Europe, and also from Oxford, to make it much more pleasant?

I respect the hon. Member's desire to improve any ugliness in our great city. I understand that this is partly the responsibility of Westminster City Council, and I shall have discussions with the council. I am told that the wall is in excellent condition. This is not an easy problem.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he is aware of the export opportunities within the construction industry; and what action he is taking to encourage such exports.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what is his policy regarding ways and means of increasing exports by the construction industry; and if he will make a statement.

Three construction industry groups are active in the export field—the consultants, the contractors and the materials manufacturers. I have seen each group separately, and recently brought the three together for a discussion on the opportunities for expanding business. I hope to help them to collaborate more closely, particularly in the field of market intelligence.

Although that Answer will give a great deal of satisfaction, will my right hon. Friend keep the matter under constant review and see that the industry plays its due part?

I am obliged to my hon. Friend. There is a great deal of good will in the industry. I have brought the British Consultants' Bureau and the Export Group of the Constructional Industry and the Building Materials Export Group together. I have asked my Parliamentary Secretary to be responsible for doing anything for the export drive to help these people. I am sure I have their good will.

Has the attention of the right hon. Gentleman been drawn to the Cromer Report? Why did he not make reference to it? Is he coordinating in this matter with the Board of Trade?

This matter was discussed with these bodies when I met them and we have close links with the Board of Trade. At all the meetings I have held the Board of Trade has had representatives present.

Is the Minister satisfied that the necessary co-operation is always obtainable from important authorities such as the Bank of England in questions of this kind?

That question concerns credit facilities. There is another Question on the Order Paper on that very point.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what action he is taking to encourage the production of sand and gravel from the sea to supplement supplies from the land.

I am exploring with other interested Departments and authorities the possibility of increasing the production of sand and gravel from the sea, for which it is clear there will be an increasing need. My Department has also discussed the problem with the Sand and Gravel Association.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. Can he give some information about the comparative cost of land- and sea-produced gravel? Can he say whether he is satisfied that the saline content of sea gravel can be effectively eradicated? What effect has this extraction on coast erosion?

I cannot give an exact answer off the cuff about the cost, but the amount of sand we are now getting from the sea is 7 per cent. or 8 per cent. of total deliveries from all sources. We forecast that this year about 8·5 million tons of sand will be taken from the sea.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that 10 million tons of china clay sand are produced in Cornwall and it is excellent for building materials but the chief difficulty is transport charges? Has he looked into this matter to see whether this sand could be put to proper use?

I have met the sand and gravel people. They are extremely bright and I do not have to tell them how to get their sand.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that if we take sand from the seashore there is great danger of erosion and that we must pay attention to this?

Of course I understand that. The responsibility for granting licences for both prospecting and exploration licences lies with the Crown Estate Commissioners. They consult other Departments and planning authorities about such matters as fisheries and coast erosion.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what discussions he has had with representatives of the construction industry following the Budget; and what was the outcome of these discussions.

I called an immediate meeting of representatives of the construction industry as soon as the Chancellor's Budget proposals were known. General agreement on the likely effects of the Budget proposals was reached at this meeting and the representatives said that they were glad to have been given this early opportunity for discussion. They particularly welcomed the announcement that Mr. Reddaway was to inquire into the effects of S.E.T.

While again thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask him what estimates have been made to the effect of the Budget proposals on the cost of new building and on production?

I have already given those figures to the House in respect of S.E.T., the Budget proposals generally and devaluation. I recognise that there are difficulties for the industry, but in spite of those difficulties I still expect that output this year will be 4 per cent. more than last year—and output last year was an all-time record.

Does the Minister recall that on 11th March he told us that the effect of these proposals would be 2 per cent. in terms of cost? He has already doubled that figure. What estimate does he now give?

With respect, that is not so. These Questions have been answered on the Floor of the House. If the hon. Members wants me again to confirm my Answers, I am willing to do so.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what consideration he is giving to appropriate ways to mark the 50th anniversary of the Building Research Station in 1971.

The establishment of the Building Research Station in 1921 was effectively the beginning of organised construction research not only in this country but in the world. Its 50th anniversary will be the theme of special conferences and open days at the station. I intend also to invite the industry as a whole and its associated professions to mark the importance of the occasion in appropriate ways.

That Answer will give a great deal of satisfaction to everyone. Does the Minister believe that the public as a whole have sufficient knowledge of the work of the Building Research Station? As this station spends a good deal of taxpayers' money, is it not right that the taxpayers should know how it is being spent?

There is no doubt that the work of the station is widely known in the industry. Later in Question Time I shall have something to say about the way in which we get some of this information out to even the smallest builders. The work of the Building Research Station is well known and appreciated by the industry as a whole.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he is satisfied that production and stocks of bricks and cement are adequate for the seasonal increase in building which is expected, and that no hold-ups will occur due to shortages of these materials; and if he will make a statement.

I am satisfied that there will be no national hold-ups due to shortages of either bricks or cement in the next few months.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask him how many days' supply are on hand in these commodities?

About one month's supply of bricks is in hand, which is very satisfactory. The demand for cement last year was 17·2 million tons and the capacity for this year is over 20 million tons. The delivery of bricks in March was 94 million up on the previous month.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works if he will state the number of pedestrians killed or injured by vehicles in the Royal Parks in any convenient recent period.

One pedestrian was killed, 12 were seriously injured and 16 slightly injured in the year 1967.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are very few facilities for pedestrians to cross the road in the Royal Parks? There are no pedestrian crossings—only police officers at infrequent intervals and at certain times of the day. Might not that be a cause of these accidents?

I am not complacent about these figures. May I put it to the hon. Member that zebra crossings and other traffic control paraphernalia in the Royal Parks run counter to the desire of most people who go into the Parks—which is to be quiet and to get some rest? If I had my way I would keep all motorists and all motor cars out of the Parks.

Will the Minister give an assurance that he has no intention of putting pedestrian crossings or other such paraphernalia in Richmond Park?

I have no such intention.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he will publish the evidence given to the Reddaway Inquiry by his Department on effects on the construction industry of the Selective Employment Tax.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he will arrange for his Department to give evidence to the Reddaway inquiry into the effects of Selective Employment Tax.

No formal evidence will be furnished to Mr. Reddaway by the Government. He will, however, be given any help or information he asks for.

Nevertheless, will the Government take the opportunity to explain to Mr. Reddaway how one keeps building costs down by taxing building workers?

The associations and professional bodies within the construction industry have been informed by me officially of Mr. Reddaway's address. Knowing them as well as I do, I have no doubt that they will tell him all that they think he ought to hear.

Will the Minister also tell Mr. Reddaway that the industry is totally opposed to the tax in its present form and wishes to see it abolished at the earliest possible opportunity?

The hon. Member must not under-estimate the associations to which I referred. If anyone is to tell Mr. Reddaway anything, they are the people to do it, not me.

Will the Minister estimate the extra cost to local authorities of these additional costs on contractors working for them?

Not without notice.

Is it open to those who wish to buy houses to tell Mr. Reddaway that they will support any measure which will reduce the over-manning in the building industry and lead to the introduction of more efficient ways of building houses?

Mr. Reddaway's terms of reference are concerned with the implications of S.E.T. I have done what I have to do as Minister—let all those connected with the construction industry know to whom they should write and where they should write. What they say is for them to decide.

But is it not very important to consider the effect on labour-only contracting? Surely the Minister should do something about that. Who will give evidence to Mr. Reddaway about that?

It is for him to ask for information. If he does, we shall supply it. My task as Minister is not to go to this man and this Committee and to make representations to them. It is for him to ask for information—and what he wants he will get from us.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what representations he has received from builders about the level of credit available for overseas construction contracts; and what reply he has sent.

I have had meetings with the construction industry about exports, at which references have been made to difficulties in obtaining guaranteed credit for overseas work early enough for tenders to be submitted in time. I have also had one representation from the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors about the level of credit available for professional work in certain overseas countries.

These are both matters which my Department is pursuing with the Board of Trade.

Is the Minister aware that recently a very large contract in the West Indies was very nearly lost to a British builder because of the failure of the Bank of England to provide proper credit facilities? What is he doing about that?

The case to which the hon. Member referred has not been brought to my personal notice. At meetings which I have had with the organisations and professions, a representative of the Export Credits Guarantee Department was present. I can only tell the House what I am advised by these people, and I understand that they are generally satisfied that credit facilities are available.

Will the Minister have in mind particularly the contracts which we are carrying out in the underdeveloped countries where this problem is one of paramount importance?

Yes, Sir. I note that point. I hope very much that those responsible for giving credit will take that very much into account.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what proposals he has to strengthen the Agrément Board; and whether he will make a statement.

I have no reason to believe that the constitution or powers of the Board are in any way inadequate. It is, however, important that the advantages of Agrément certificates should become more widely known and I have agreed with the Board that it should now give further publicity to its work.

Will the Minister tell the House why the Board has issued only six certificates? Will he make the grant of an Agrément certificate grounds for exemption under the building regulations?

In fact, eight certificates have been issued, a further 21 products have been accepted for testing, of which seven are in the final stages, and a further 59 have been offered draft test contracts. This work is picking up. I hope to see the situation in which no new product which has not an Agrément certificate will be used by the industry. That is the situation at which I should like to arrive. But this Board has been operating for a very short time.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what plans he has for the further cleaning of buildings within his responsibility.

I shall complete the work in hand on Trafalgar Square, the National Gallery, the National Portrait Gallery, the Admiralty Arch and the Mall facade of the Admiralty, and the Treasury; and at the Tower of London and the Royal Naval College, Greenwich.

I am considering further cleaning in the light of the present financial situation.

In view of the success of my right hon. Friend's present cleaning programme and its value for the tourist trade, may I ask him to look at the possibility of cleaning this Palace, the British Museum, the remaining buildings in Whitehall, the Tate Gallery and Burlington House?

I should like someone to give me a lot of money to do a lot of things. I shall certainly take account of my hon. Friend's request, and I am glad to have this opportunity to pay tribute to the officers of my Department and those who work with them for the marvellous job which they have already done.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he will now make a statement on his plans for increasing productivity on construction sites where contracts being let by his Department are being carried out.

It is my policy to encourage methods of increasing productivity throughout the whole of the construction industry. On my Department's projects, productivity is encouraged both by providing continuity of work where practicable by such means as measured, term and continuation contracts, and by the forward planning of work inherent in the Government's firm price tendering policy. Contracts let in recent years have also included provision for improved site amenities, artificial lighting to minimise loss of normal working hours in the winter, precautions to permit building work to continue in cold weather and the provision of safety helmets for use by all personnel on sites.

In the light of that very long reply, may I ask the Minister what further plans he has, in view of the increased cost which will flow from various provisions of the Transport Bill? What plans has he to offset increased costs for machinery, plant hire and so on?

The Question asked what I was doing to increase productivity. I have answered that in a long but, I thought, very good reply. Last year, productivity in this industry was 5 per cent. more than it had ever been before, with 2½ per cent. fewer men working in it. The results justify, at least, what we are trying to do.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that British Standard Time will probably hinder the industry somewhat? Further, in the light of his long Answer, will he agree that the most satisfactory way to increase productivity would be to ensure that all plans were at the final stage before a job went out to tender?

I do not quarrel with that argument. I can only say that I meet representatives of the industry con- stantly, and I believe that they are very confident about the future. This is an industry with a great deal of courage and confidence about not only the problems of today but the problems of tomorrow as well.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what further representations his Department is making to the Phelps Brown inquiry into labour-only subcontracting.

My Department has given factual evidence to the Committee.

Did not the Minister's own Department give a report on the census of employment in 1967 which showed an increase in the number of self-employed units, and does not he agree that the rise in the S.E.T. will increase the amount of self-employed groups working within the industry? Is not this a bad thing? Will the right hon. Gentleman comment on that?

The hon. Gentleman asked me what representations I had made to the Phelps Brown Committee. I have not tried to influence this Committee's findings. Its terms of reference are very broad. This is not a question of labour-only subcontracting, important though that is—I understand that—but the Committee will cover all aspects of the engagement and use of labour in the construction industry. It is a wide-ranging Committee.

My hon. Friend's Question was perfectly reasonable. If there has been an increase in the S.E.T., ought there not to be an increase in representations?

I do not think so. I am sure that Mr. Phelps Brown is fully aware of the effects of the S.E.T. If he does not know by now, I shall be very surprised.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what proposals he has for the improvement of public parks under his controls.

My general policy is to preserve the Royal Parks as places primarily for quiet and peaceful enjoyment and recreation by the public. I shall continue to introduce improvements which are consistent with this policy, for example, in landscaping and gardening features, tree planting, refreshment facilities and the renewal as necessary of facilities for sport and recreation.

To help forward this admirable policy, will my right hon. Friend look at the experiments which have been taking place in New York, details of which have been sent to him, including the closing of parks to motor traffic al weekends?

If that were practicable I should do it. In reply to an earlier Question, I let it be known that I do not favour making greater facilities available for motor traffic, and I say now to the R.A.C. and the A.A., "Please do not write to me and ask for more facilities"—they will not get them, as far as I am concerned. I can tell the House that I have just had a survey completed by some schoolboys of 16, which produced some splendid results. It shows that the vast majority of people in London, at least, want these places to be quiet and peaceful. I intend to ensure just that if I can.

asked the Minister of Public Building and works what restriction of office building is in existence under his regulations.

The Building Control Act, 1966, imposes a control on private building, including offices. Exemption is given to work which is under £50,000 or is in a development area or which is covered by an office development permit under the Control of Office and Industrial Development Act, 1965.

Are these restrictions creating a scarcity value leading to an increase in rents, and is this putting further impositions on industry?

Since I have been Minister I have—I hope that I can use the phrase with modesty—been extremely generous. About 97 per cent. of all applications for licence have been granted. I am giving the matter further consideration.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that, visually, it appears throughout London that there are a good many office blocks standing today offering premises to let. Evidently, there is no call for a substantial increase in offices in the London area.

I do not quarrel with that.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what factors he has taken into account in estimating an increase by 1970 of the percentage of new construction work being carried out for the public sector.

I have allowed for all relevant factors affecting both the public and the private sectors. The recent Government decisions will have the effect of reducing the proportion of work carried out for the public sector from what it would otherwise have been by 1970.

Would it not be far better, in view of that state of affairs, to reduce the number of direct labour forces employed by local authorities in conjunction with the Minister of Housing and Local Government and put more of this work out to private enterprise, which can do it much more efficiently?

The hon. Gentleman will be interested in the figures: 91 per cent. of all new house building by local authorities is performed by private enterprise and only 9 per cent. by direct labour. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will be the first to concede that there are many direct labour forces which have done and are doing a first-class job. There is no reason to denigrate them just because they happen to be direct labour.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works how many forms are in use by his Department; how many staff are involved in compiling and distributing them; and what administrative arrangements his Department has with the Board of Trade to avoid duplication.

I assume that the hon. Member's Question relates to forms issued for statistical purposes.

In 1967, eight types of form requesting information were sent to construction firms, 20 to manufacturers of building materials, and five to the public sector. The equivalent of 74 full-time staff were involved in compiling and distributing these forms. Officers of my Department discuss with those of the Board of Trade the coverage of inquiries, and there is also systematic co-ordination under the auspices of the Central Statistical Office.

Does not the Minister realise that, if he has a number of staff preparing these forms, builders must have large numbers of staff for filling them in? What criteria does the right hon. Gentleman have regarding the time allowed for the return of these forms, and would he not get them used with more enthusiasm if he gave a better excuse for issuing them?

I say at once that I consider that there are too many forms and people are being asked for too much information. The more co-ordination we have on this, and the sooner we have it, the better. However, having said that, I must remind the hon. Gentleman that his industry, perhaps more than any other in the country, is anxious to have information, and the only way to get information is to ask people for it.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works if he will give comparisons of output by private contractors and direct labour on council houses; and if he will make a statement.

When the price of work done by contractors in 1967 is divided by the number of their operatives, the answer is £600. When the cost of work done by direct labour departments of local authorities is similarly divided, the answer is £2,600. For a variety of reasons, these two figures are not comparable measures of productivity.

The right hon. Gentleman keeps on suggesting that these figures are not comparable. Is he aware that, in the public sector, public authorities and public utility companies employing direct labour account for only 14 per cent. of output, yet they employ 25 per cent. of the total labour force? How does the right hon. Gentleman explain that?

I gave the figures for new council house building, which is what the Questions asks. There is a later Question regarding maintenance, which is a separate matter, asking how much is done by direct labour, and so on. Again, I make the simple point that it serves no useful purpose to have what I call this ideological battle about whether work is done by private enterprise or by direct labour. There are very efficient strata in both private enterprise and direct labour forces. There is some bad private enterprise and some good private enterprise, and there is some pretty rough direct labour, too.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that direct labour forces make a contribution to competitive efficiency not only in output but also through their competitive tendering for contracts?

Some of them do. The truth about direct labour is that it can be a success only if management is successful. It is no good blaming the carpenter, the decorator or whoever it is. If management is not successful in direct labour, direct labour is a failure. Management is the key to seeing that direct labour forces are successful.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works whether he is satisfied with progress being made by the Construction Industry Research and Information Association in increasing its membership; and if he will make a statement.

At the end of December, 1967, there were 610 member organisations, compared with about 440 at the inception of C.I.R.I.A. in March, 1967. While this represents encouraging progress, the membership remains only a small fraction of what could be achieved. The need for a first-class research and information association is widely acknowledged and I hope that the industry, its associated professions and the local authorities will rise to the occasion.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that statement. Can he say what steps he is taking to make this important research and information association better known?

Yes, Sir. Apart from my Department's publicising it to the best of our ability, I am also trying to arrange a link between C.I.R.I.A. and the Construction Industry Training Board at regional level. C.I.R.I.A.'s job is to some extent handicapped by the lack of finance, because a voluntary body must justify itself to members of the building and construction industry. It is well on the way to doing this, and it has a great future.

I accept the desirability of the organisation and its success and hope that the Minister will turn on the tap of publicity in a very big way, but does he accept that the industry would have responded a great deal better if it had not been burdened with one tax impost after another in the past few years?

The hon. Gentleman keeps going on about this and the taxes imposed. This is an industry with a tremendous record—past, present and future. I wish that the hon. Gentleman would be a little more optimistic about the future instead of being so miserable.

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works what steps are being taken to set up regional facilities to co-ordinate the provision of advisory and information services available to the construction industry.

The Construction Industry Research and Information Association is engaged in appointing staff for a new regional advisory service. I have suggested to the Association and to other bodies making similar plans that there would be advantage in having one centre in each major regional city. This would provide the industry with easy access to the full range of services which are now available. Discussions on this proposal are now proceeding.

I welcome the new regional advisory service, but can my right hon. Friend say whether this will necessarily lead to an increase in the number of civil servants employed?

It will not, because the staff to be provided will be employed by the associations involved. This kind of rationalisation might well lead to a reduction in overheads, with consequential benefits to the industry at large. What I want is my own Ministry represented on the regional advisory service, because the time is overdue when the information and know-how in the industry should be sold, right down to the smallest possible builder. This is one way of doing that.

asked the Minister of Technology if he will now place in the OFFICIAL REPORT a table showing the various cancellation charges for all the United States aircraft ordered by Great Britain.

I would refer the hon. Member to the Answer given to the hon. Member for Hendon, North (Sir Ian Orr-Ewing) on 20th March.—[Vol. 761, c. 106.]

Is it not a fact that that Answer did not tell the complete story, and that all the costs for foreign aircraft, including the F111, were not included in it? Could the Minister tell us the full effect of all cancellation charges?

It is impossible at this stage to give the full picture including the F111. I have some idea of the likely level of cancellation costs, but the actual figures must be negotiated between the firms and the United States authorities on our behalf. I should prefer not to prejudice the course of these negotiations by hazarding a guess about their outcome.

Does my hon. Friend agree that recent events in Vietnam demonstrated that if we had not cancelled the F111 the cost to the British taxpayer in the long run would have been infinitely greater than it may be now?

My hon. Friend may draw his own conclusions from the events in Vietnam. They are not strictly relevant to the Question on the Order Paper.

Will the Minister endeavour during the negotiations to widen the scope of the offset agreement to the maximum, bearing in mind that we buy a great deal of other material from America, quite apart from the proposal to buy the F111?

We are naturally extremely eager to sell all the British goods we can to the United States, particularly in the aviation field. We have had great successes recently, and I see little cause for worry in this case.

asked the Minister of Technology what was the total cost to United Kingdom public funds of foreign-built military aircraft during each of the past five years; and what is the estimated cost for each of the next five years.

As the Answer contains a number of figures, I shall, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Would not the first figure plus the cancellation charges have more than paid the British bill for the TSR2 and P1154 which the Government cancelled?

None of the figures which I shall circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT would anywhere near pay for the TSR2.

Can the hon. Gentleman say how much has been paid so far and what the total will ultimately be for the cancellation of the F111, and would he not agree that the Government made a deplorable error in ordering the aircraft in the first place?

The hon. Gentleman must look at the OFFICIAL REPORT for the detailed figures. I have already answered a question about the cancellation charges, and I do not want to prejudice negotiations by estimating any figure for them.

asked the Minister of Technology (1) what steps he has taken to improve the security arrangements at the Aircraft and Armaments Experimental Establishment at Boscombe Down;

The Establishment operates an approved system of stores control and stock-taking checks, the procedures varying according to the value and security classification of the stores concerned. The thefts, which took place over a long period, mainly involved small consumable stores and equipment from obsolete aircraft awaiting disposal, for which it is not practicable to account in detail. The main safeguard against losses of this kind is a random check by the police at the gate; a comprehensive daily check not being practicable.

One of the employees involved in the thefts has been dismissed; the other two resigned.

None of the stolen equipment was classified. The security of classified stores and documents is however kept under review, and improvements are introduced from time to time as necessary.

Is it not the case that, far from this offence being detected by the police at the gate, it was detected by the ordinary police when one of the offenders advertised this material for sale? Can the right hon. Gentleman tell us who was responsible and what action is being taken against him, bearing in mind that we have had a recent incident of a chairman of a company being held responsible for the action of his subordinates?

This is a case of theft from the stores concerned. I cannot, obviously, disclose to the House the measures which have since been taken to improve security, but the principle of Parliamentary responsibility makes me responsible for the affairs of the Establishment.

asked the Minister of Technology when he expects a revised date for the first flight of the Concorde 001 to be announced by the manufacturers.

The French-assembled prototype is not now expected to fly before August, and it may be later. First flight of the British-assembled prototype remains planned for September. It will be some weeks before the manufacturers can give more precise indications of first flight dates.

The right hon. Gentleman said that the French aircraft may fly later than August and that the British aircraft will fly in September. Can he assure the House that, if it is ready, nothing will prevent the British aircraft from flying before the French one?

I should remind the hon. Gentleman that there is no French aircraft and there is no British aircraft. Both aircraft are identical, one being assembled in Toulouse and one being assembled in Bristol. It is a great mistake for this to be regarded as a race between two companies which are assembling each other's components into one aircraft. But 001 has had priority, and it is our wish that this should he handled between the two companies on the basis of what is most sensible.

Can my right hon. Friend say when he will take a firm decision on the question of putting Concorde into production, especially in view of the industrial consequences which may follow?

As my hon. Friend knows, production finance has been made available and some parts of a production aircraft are now being constructed. If he asks, "When will the way be clear for the full production programme?", this to some extent inevitably depends upon the airline orders.

asked the Minister of Technology if he will state the present composition of the board of the Upper Clydeside Shipbuilders Limited; what divisions on Clydeside are represented on the board, and by how many members; and how many further appointments are to be made to the board.

Apart from one director representing the Shipbuilding Industry Board, the composition of the board is the responsibility of Upper Clydeside Shipbuilders Limited, whose chairman has, I understand, discussed this matter with my hon. Friend.

I take it that in due course we shall hear that the board is complete? In the meantime, in the interests of good workmanship, will my hon. Friend take his own means of encouraging the new shipbuilders to keep in close touch with the men and the thinking of the men in the yard and try to base all wage increments on productivity agreements?

I am not sure that the last part of the supplementary question arises from the Question on the Order Paper. However, as to keeping in touch with the men in the yard and other interests affected, I can assure my hon. Friend that I and my right hon. Friend have every confidence in the new board and, in particular, in the chairman of Upper Clyde-side Shipbuilders Limited, and I am sure that they will do exactly this.

Is it the intention to have a uniform wage structure in Upper Clydeside, and is the hon. Gentleman happier about the order position than he was a few months ago?

The first part of the supplementary question is a matter for the company and it would be improper for me to reply. As to the latter part, the answer is "yes, indeed". The order position is now much more encouraging, and we all hope that it will become more encouraging still as the benefits of devaluation become apparent in the order book of the company.

asked the Minister of Technology whether he is satisfied with progress on development of the A300 airbus; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. The purpose of the project definition phase is being realised with the progressive refinement of the design. We should be in a position to decide about further commitments to the project this summer as planned.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that there are areas where the A300 will have to compete with the DC10 and the Lockheed, and that the delays likely to result from international collaboration are at present unacceptable to this country; and will he hurry things up?

The case for international collaboration is not only on the production side but also from the point of view of getting an assured market. The hon. Gentleman will know that the reason for the Government's European aircraft policy is that if one can get an assured market before one begins this is what justifies the effort. All international projects may tend to take rather longer in some respects than national ones, but this is the justification for what we have done.

In view of the announcement over the weekend that Boeing is determined to go ahead with an airbus which will be directly in competition with this airbus, what information has the right hon. Gentleman with regard to the attitude of Lufthansa, which, I understand, has a tie-up with Boeing and is absolutely vital to the European effort?

The question of airline commitment is looked at individually in each country. It is not unknown for our airlines to take a view which does not correspond exactly with that of our own aircraft industry. However, we believe that the Lufthansa commitment to the airbus will go forward. Although Boeing has been making noises about its new aircraft, we still think that the A300 airbus will continue to be a proposition worthy of support.

asked the Minister of Technology what further action has been taken by the Shipbuilding Industry Board regarding the merger of the Wear shipyards; and what is the position regarding any application for financial assistance.

The position has not changed since the reply to my right hon. Friend's Question on 18th March. I have recently discussed this with the Shipbuilding Industry Board, who are in touch with the companies concerned.—[Vol. 761, c. 13–14.]

While the position about orders has much improved over the past month or two, will my hon. Friend ensure that the board keeps pegging at this? Otherwise, the Wear will be prejudiced compared with other shipbuilding districts.

I agree entirely with what my right hon. Friend has said. The Wear shipbuilders received a report by consultants nearly eight months ago. We hope that progress towards a merger on the Wear will be much more rapid in the immediate future than it has been during the past eight months.

asked the Minister of Technology whether he will make a statement on the future of the Furness shipyard.

We are now considering the conclusions of the economic appraisal which has been made and hope to make a statement shortly.

I appreciate my hon. Friend's prompt intervention, but is there any possibility of the yard being continued on a management basis, because orders have now come in to a much better extent than we thought possible a few months ago and it might be possible for orders to be carried out in this yard?

When my right hon. Friend says that orders have been coming in much better than we expected a few months ago, I think that he refers to the industry as a whole and, unfortunately, not to this yard, where new orders have been nil since devaluation, which one would have expected to give a boost to all yards. As for management, there are various ways of arranging for a yard to be managed, but the essential problem is that a yard can be run only by an owner with considerable capital resources.

asked the Minister of Technology whether he will make a statement on the work situation at the Bristol Engine Division of Rolls Royce Limited, Coventry; and what are his plans to ensure that a high level of employment is maintained there.

The distribution of work between the various factories of the Rolls Royce Group is a matter for the commercial judgment of the management. However, I understand that the company is currently considering what measures should be taken to improve the workload at the Coventry factories in order to alleviate the current short-time working.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in the meantime there is considerable dissatisfaction inside this important factory owing to the fact that many men are on short time and there is a great deal of idle capacity at a time when much work is being subcontracted outside? Would my right hon. Friend look into this matter and try to arrange a better distribution of work so that Coventry can benefit from it?

I understand this difficulty very well, because in my constituency capacity I have exactly the same problem raised with me from the Bristol Siddeley Engine Division of Rolls Royce. As my hon. Friend will know if he has gone into this, spare capacity and spare manpower do not necessarily mean that it is possible to transfer work, which may be of a different kind, or terminate a subcontract exactly in time to make the transfer of work possible. My hon. Friend will appreciate that Rolls has already begun to help in this direction, but the firm itself will be intensely busy over the next ten years.

asked the Minister of Technology whether he will make a statement on further action taken or pro- posed to be taken to increase the range of research and development work being undertaken by private industry and by Government Departments in the Northern Region.

The Department has had a number of discussions with authorities in the Northern Region on proposals for technological development in the region, and these are continuing.

When will my hon. Friend be able to say something rather more specific, as there is great anxiety over the great backlog in this field in the Northern Region?

I much appreciate my hon. Friend's enthusiasm and anxiety to see progress here. I share his desire, as does my right hon. Friend. We are wasting no time.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that on the North-East Coast we think that there is too much talk and too little action? With great respect to the hon. Gentleman, I would feel much happier if the right hon. Gentleman could tell us how he is getting on in the Cabinet, who are obviously the niggers in the woodpile.

The hon. Lady is quite misinformed about the extent of the action that there has been. There has been an N.R.D.C. project of £¾ million with Welwyn Electric, a £1 million project for the development of transducers by an instrument firm, and projects for a superconducting motor at I.R.D.

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that part of the answer to this question is for the two major universities in the North-East, particularly in their engineering departments, to get as close contact as possible with the developing industries and the highly technological industries which are sited in the North-East?

Yes. The hon. Gentleman makes a very important point and one which we are pursuing with both universities at present.

asked the Minister of Technology whether he has given further consideration to the recent representations made to him about the difficulties of the smaller shipyards situated outside development areas; and what action is now proposed to ensure their survival, especially in view of their contribution to the export drive.

My right hon. Friend is considering the information provided by the hon. Member and will be writing to him shortly. There is considerable scope for shipbuilders outside development areas to improve their competitive position. Shipbuilders' relief, assistance under the Shipbuilding Industry Act and the benefits of devaluation are available to all yards, but I am not convinced that all yards outside the development areas should also be treated as though they were in those areas.

Is my hon. Friend aware that it is rather invidious to give to one of the shipyards concerned the Queen's Award in consideration of its export achievements and, on the other hand, to leave it exposed to the possibility of being closed owing to unfair competition? Will he remind my right hon. Friend the Minister that several weeks ago I asked him to receive a further deputation about this matter, which he promised to do some time ago, and that I am still waiting for a reply?

With regard to exports, my hon. Friend is well aware that our yards, whether inside or outside development areas, when competing with foreign competitors must stand upon their own feet. Yards outside the development areas cannot complain that they are at a disadvantage because they do not receive a subsidy in competing with foreign rivals. Their record is, in general, excellent. We would not crib at this, but they must not ask for a general subsidy.

Does not the unfairness arise purely from the difference in the way yards are treated in regard to S.E.T.? Does it not follow that, if a yard outside the development areas is in fact competing, it is very doubtful whether yards inside ought to be subsidised against their obviously very much more efficient competitors outside?

I am very interested to hear the hon. Gentleman arguing in favour of the proposition that all help to the shipbuilding industry should be abolished so that there is no discrimination between yards inside and outside development areas. I am sure that his remarks will be read with great interest by yards inside development areas. It is the Government's policy to develop employment inside the development areas—the areas of traditionally high unemployment. This policy cannot be got over by saying that the subsidy should become generalised.

In that context, will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that there is a feeling, rightly or wrongly, amongst shipbuilders outside development areas that, not only do shipbuilders in the development areas get—very properly—the advantage which is part of regional policy, but that when it comes to competing for Government contracts, other things being equal, the Government are prejudiced against shipyards in the development areas? I should have thought that it would be right for them to be treated equally, given the advantage that is obtained through the various development district policies.

I think that the hon. Gentleman means that there is a feeling that there is a prejudice against yards outside the development areas. He said, "in the development areas". There may be this feeling. The hon. Gentleman knows as well as I that all sorts of irrational feelings exist. There is no evidence to support the proposition he has just made, and I can assure him that there is no truth in it.

asked the Minister of Technology what proposals he has for a greater expansion of the technological industry in Scotland.

The Ministry of Technology takes every opportunity to encourage the expansion of advanced technological industry in Scotland as in other development areas. The announcement on 23rd April by the Burrough's Corporation of the decision to establish a new computer factory at Glenrothes, initially to employ 1,000 people, marked the latest example of the expansion of advanced technological industry in Scotland.

I thank my hon. Friend for that intimation. Is he aware that I am thinking on a much wider scale? Does he recollect that, since we lost the aircraft maintenance industry at Renfrew, Scotland has been left only with the engine side, employing 12,000 persons? Does he not think that we should now be getting a development on the airframe side, with the technological equipment that goes with it, to compensate for the heavy outflow of skilled manpower to England?

I am well aware of Scotland's need for employment in the engineering industry. I hope that my hon. Friend will not ignore the tremendous advantages which flow from the great concentration of the computer industry in Scotland at present. Indeed, this industry is rapidly approaching the point of take-off in this very important part of the country.