asked the Secretary of State for Wales what schemes submitted by local councils have been approved through the Derelict Land Unit of the Welsh Office; what is the total acreage of and at present being reclaimed; and if he will give examples of what are the intended uses of such land.

Since the Derelict Land Unit was set up in November, 1966, 27 schemes for the reclamation of some 600 acres of derelict land have been approved. About half of this land has now been reclaimed for such purposes as industry, housing, public open space and car parks; work is in progress on the remaining 300 acres. In addition, 65 schemes are currently being considered.

Is my hon. Friend aware that expectations of the final results of clearance are high, and that it should be a proud achievement? Can he assure the House that the additional schemes will be encouraged?

Yes, Sir. I think we can claim a good deal of success already. The Unit has accomplished a great deal in a short period of time.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether, since the fact that only two women have been appointed to the 38 strong Council for Wales is an inadequate recognition of the contribution made by women to life in the Principality, he will increase their representation.

My right hon. Friend made appointments to the Council on the basis of merit, not sex.

In this matter my hon. Friend is the exception that proves the rule. Does she not agree that this puny proportion in Human Rights Year, the year, too, of the anniversary of women's suffrage, is a very poor reflection on Welsh womanhood? Will she try to ensure that this type of attitude is not repeated in the future?

The two distinguished women who were appointed to the Council represent interests which are of special importance in relation to the work which the Council is expected to perform. Having myself been a "statutory" woman, I deprecate appointing members of councils simply because they happen to be women. There will be further opportunities to appoint members to the panels of the main Council.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he will ensure that information provided for and obtained by the Council of Wales will be available to right hon. and hon. Members of this House.

It is not the normal practice to supply to hon. and right hon. Members information provided for, and obtained by, advisory bodies.

Does my right hon. Friend agree with the Minister of Technology, speaking at the annual conference of the Welsh Council of Labour, when he called for greater openness and less secrecy in government? Should not Wales set an example in this by ensuring that advisory bodies to the Government, such as the Council, should not be secretive, leaving hon. Members of this House in the dark?

My right hon. Friend said a lot of things at Llandudno. On this point I would say that information obtained in confidence, on that basis, must be kept confidential. If there is any other information which my hon. Friend or any other Member would like, the Welsh Office is eager to help, as is the Welsh Council.

Would the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind the first part of his hon. Friend's suggestion, about information provided for the Council of Wales? Would he bear in mind that it can be of interest to English Members as well as Welsh Members in trying, for example, to follow Welsh education?

I am eager for the maximum amount of information to be made available. Of course, I will look at what my hon. Friend and the right hon. Gentleman have said.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the immense value of the deliberations of the Welsh Council to Members of this House? Will he bear in mind that reports of the Economic Council have often ultimately fallen into the hands of Members of this House? Would he agree that there seems to be no earthly reason why they should not have been placed there in the first instance, and made public without jeopardising the work of the Council?

I can give an assurance that all the information that can be made available without breach of confidence will be so made available.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he will announce the Government's plans for legislation to give effect to the White Paper on Local Government in Wales, Command Paper Number 3340, published in July, 1967.

My right hon. Friend hopes to introduce legislation in this Parliament. Preparations are proceeding.

Is the hon. Lady aware that paragraph 2 of the introduction of the White Paper refers to:

"… the need for early action is particularly urgent in Wales …"?

As I am sure the hon. Members is aware, we have been very busy with consultations with the local authority associations and with representatives of all the local authorities in Wales. We have certainly not been wasting time, but Parliamentary draftsmen have now to receive instructions to proceed from my right hon. Friend.

Can the Minister of State tell the House whether the Parliamentary draftsmen have reached such a stage that we can anticipate legislation next Session?

No, I do not think it will be possible in the next Session.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he expects to announce the population target for Cwmbran New Town.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he anticipates he will announce the future population target of Cwmbran New Town.

I hope to make a statement shortly.

Does my right hon. Friend realise that the uncertainties caused by these long delays are having a bad effect upon the morale of the staff of the New Town Corporation, and will he sympathise with the urge of the local people to get an early decision?

I accept what my hon. Friend says. Both he and my hon. Friend the Member for Pontypool (Mr. Abse) have made very strong representations to me on this matter, and I am aware of the necessity for a speedy decision.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales why there has been a five-month delay in deciding on planning permission for Pontins' proposed holiday camp at Prestatyn; and, in view of the fact that this delay has already caused loss and may result in the enterprise being sited in England, whether he will expedite his consideration of the matter.

The decision on this application has been delayed because of the need to give careful thought to the complicated issues involved including the effect of previous decisions relating to the use of the land, the relevance of the coastal preservation policy and the adequacy of the town sewage disposal system. My right hon. Friend hopes however to announce his decision in a week or so.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the replies given to the Prestatyn Council over a long period always suggested that the answer would be given "in a matter of days"? Is he also aware that the County Council is happy about the coastal position and that the sewerage scheme has already been approved?

Yes, Sir. My right hon. Friend is aware of the situation but, as I have indicated, a decision is imminent and will be given quite soon.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if, in view of the recent representation made to him that a new factory in part of the Welsh Development Area is handicapped by poor access road communications, he will consider some increase in the Welsh roads programme.

The Welsh Road Programme is increasing. Total expenditure on Welsh roads was £114 million in the four years 1964–65 to 1967–68 compared with £66 million in the four years to 1963–64. It will increase still further in future years.

Is it not a fact that the kinds of areas to which the Secretary of State and his colleagues are trying to induce industry to move are often serviced by tortuous and inadequate roads? May it not be that even the substantial inducements available to industrialists will not suffice unless some improvement is made?

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that our strategy on road improvements is designed to serve the needs of the Welsh development area and, in fact, new factories are being opened in Wales, despite our difficulties.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is the total expenditure on roads in Wales in the period 1965–66 to 1967–68 compared with that from 1962–63 to 1964–65.

From 1962–63 to 1964–65 expenditure was £63·9 million compared with £86 million from 1965–66 to 1967–68, an increase of £22·1 million.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. Of course, all hon. Members on this side of the House are aware of the inertia shown by previous Tory Administrations in this matter, but will he assure the House that there will be no let up in these encouraging developments?

We inherited a very serious problem, but I am determined that expenditure on these roads shall be as much as we can afford.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the figures that he has just given are both irrelevant and misleading unless they include the expenditure on such roads as the M50, 20 miles of which cost £6 million outside Wales, and the expenditure on such projects as the Severn Bridge?

It is very difficult to satisfy the hon. Gentleman, but I can assure him that we have increased substantially the expenditure on roads in Wales, and we intend to go on doing so.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is the value of major trunk road schemes started or to be started in Wales in the periods 1965–66 to 1967–68 and 1968–69 to 1969–70.

In the three years 1965–66 to 1967–68, £9·6 million. In the two years 1968–69 to 1969–70, £27·5 million.

The figures which my right hon. Friend has given are most encouraging, but will he bear in mind that there are no grounds for complacency, because access to the Midlands and the Home Counties is essential to the future prosperity of South Wales?

My hon. Friend is quite right. I wish that we could spend five times as much, because the need is there. But we will spend to the utmost of our capacity.

While we are all delighted that the Minister has pledged himself to do what he can in the matter, may I ask whether he will concede that most of the roads built to date must have had some preparations during the years before he took office?

I do not blame the hon. Gentleman in looking for a crumb of comfort, but I can assure him that this Government have had to find the money.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what plans he has to improve road communications between southern and northern Wales.

These substantial plans are set out in paragraphs 54, 55, 371 and 393 of "Wales: The Way Ahead "(Cmnd. 3334).

Is the Secretary of State aware that for only one-third of the cost of the new town announced in 1964 for Mid-Wales, the Government could construct a splendid spine road from Cardiff to Caernarvon via Merthyr Tydvil and Ruabon, and Wrexham, with reconstructed trunk roads running off it to the west and east?

I am glad to note that the hon Gentleman is now aware that I have responsibility for roads in Wales. May I advise him that if he talks to his own county council in Carmarthenshire, he will find that what it is interested in is an east-west road and not a north-south read. What it is interested in, in the north, is a road from Bangor to Chester. These communications must have priority, but of course I want to see the maximum improvement in all directions in the roads of Wales.

Will my right hon. Friend continue to give first priority to economic matters, rather than to folklore, and insist on access to our major markets, by the M4 to London and by the Newport-Worcester trunk road to the Midlands, both of which are far more important to the economic life of Wales than any north-south links?

My hon. Friend has spoken wisely.

Would the right hon. Gentleman agree that his answer a moment ago shows a distinct change in the Government's road policy? Will he confirm that it is his opinion that east-west roads are, economically speaking, far more important than the much discussed north-south roads?

As far as I am aware this is not a change of policy, it has been the way in which we have been spending our money. We are engaged in 27 improvements on the trunk road north to south at present, and spending a great deal of money on it, but the main emphasis in Wales, under present economic conditions, must be to improve the main roads to the west in North and South Wales.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will take steps to ensure closer co-operation and coordination between the Welsh Tourist Board and planning authorities in the Principality, in matters affecting the development of the tourist industry in Wales.

My right hon. Friend is already encouraging close consultation between the Board and the planning authorities on these matters. A meeting was arranged by the Welsh Office last month between county planning officers in Wales and the General Manager of the Wales Tourist Board.

While it is true that this is a difficult and sometimes delicate matter, would it not be beneficial for the planning authorities to have a much more detailed picture of the sort of aim of the Minister and of the Welsh Tourist Board with regard to future developments in tourism?

They can, of course, consult the Tourist Board at any time and, in addition, the Environmental Panel of the new Welsh Council may be helpful. But in individual cases, as I am sure the hon. Gentleman will appreciate, my right hon. Friend has a quasi-judicial capacity on appeal and could not properly intervene.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he will make a further statement on the explosion at the Welsh Office on 25th May.

I have nothing to add to my statement to the House on 27th May [Vol. 765, c. 1229–1234]. Questions relating to police investigations are a matter for my right hon. Friend, the Home Secretary.

Will the right hon. Gentleman join me in condemning all violence against persons as well as property, including that violence for which massive and expensive preparations are made by the Government to kill and maim people and to poison and asphyxiate them—

Order. This Question is about an explosion in Wales.

I welcome the tone adopted by the hon. Gentleman today. On the day after his appointment, he told The Times newspaper:

"The Government does not think anyone is serious until people start blowing up things or shooting others."

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that the greatest contribution that can be made to the prevention of bomb explosions of this kind would be the cessation by the hon. Member for Carmarthen (Mr. Gwynfor Evans) of anti-English racialist statements which breed the very atmosphere in which violence thrives?

I believe that all those who have this anti-English hatred policy in Wales today are doing grave harm to the interests of the people of the United Kingdom as a whole and of Wales in particular.

May we get back to the real point, which is why the Government so far have not been successful in finding any of the people responsible for explosions? Will the right hon. Gentleman make urgent representations to his right hon. Friend the Home Secretary?

While I have already said that the matter of police investigations is one for my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, with every respect to the hon. Gentleman, to ask why the Government have not caught these culprits is something of a distortion of what is happening. Surely he knows that it is a matter for the police, and the police are engaged in it.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many houses were completed in Wales in 1967 in comparison with the average number completed from 1960 to 1964; and how many houses he estimates will be completed this year.

20,158 houses were completed in 1967, which compares with an annual average of 14,486 in the years from 1960 to 1964, an increase of 39 per cent. It is too early to say how many houses will be completed this year; but my right hon. Friend is very confident that the very high record of achievement over the past few years will be continued this year.

While congratulating my hon. Friend on those excellent figures, may I ask him to take into account the fact that in Wales there are very many structurally sound houses which could be brought up to modern standards? Will he, therefore, publicise the excellent facilities announced in the Government White Paper entitled "Old Houses into New Homes"?

Yes, Sir. My right hon. Friend is taking note of the point. He is emphasising the needs of the older housing areas in Wales. The new proposals outlined in the White Paper have been very well received.

In view of the substantial progress to which my hon. Friend has drawn attention, does the Welsh Office consider that, in the foreseeable future, the back of the housing problem in the Principality can be broken?

We look forward with confidence to achieving that result.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will take steps to alleviate the effect of animal trespass on the roads and elsewhere in the valleys of South Wales.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he is aware of increasing public concern with the problems created by sheep trespass in the urban areas of South Wales and Monmouthshire; and whether he will initiate inter-Departmental discussions with a view to minimising the present nuisances and hazards.

I am aware of this problem, and am in consultation with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food about the suggestions for dealing with it made at my meeting with those of my hon. Friends who came to discuss this matter on 28th May.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for the prompt attention that he gave to the deputation which met him. and while appreciating that this problem will take a long time to solve, may I ask whether, in view of the distress caused over many years to motorists, farmers, gardeners, and the animals, he will give this matter urgent consideration, possibly by setting up a working party to look at this quickly?

I do not under-estimate the seriousness of this problem. I know that in the valleys of South Wales it is a grievous problem. I can assure my hon. Friend that I will look very seriously at his proposal for a working party, and that the discussions with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture are proceeding apace.

Would the Secretary of State bear in mind that, complex and difficult as this problem is, if the sheep and ponies were behaving in the streets of Cardiff and London as they behaved in Blaenavon and Garndiffaigh, there would already have been urgent attention given to it? Would he note that the steps that he has already taken are looked upon with great interest by all the people of the Monmouthshire valleys?

My hon. Friend is dealing with a serious subject and I understand his sense of concern. I will gladly bear in mind what he has said.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he has completed his register of industrial sites in Wales; and if he will make a statement.

Work on the first part of the register, covering the development areas of South Wales, is virtually complete and work in the remainder, covering the rest of Wales, is in progress.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what functions of the Welsh Rural Development Board he proposes to control directly.

My right hon. Friend would propose to exercise the functions laid upon him by Part III of the Agriculture Act, 1967.

It is always a little difficult to know what the Secretary of State's powers are in any direction. Might I ask the hon. Lady whether her right hon. Friend is aware of the intense opposition in Mid-Wales to the Rural Development Board? Will he use all his powers to cancel the whole project?

I am sad to find that the hon. Member, who in other respects is quite well informed about matters in Wales, has taken the line that this Board, which will be of very great advantage to the area, is undesirable. I can only hope that he will await the result of the public inquiry which is taking place.

Will the Minister of State kindly tell the House how much money it is proposed to spend in that part of Wales on the Rural Development Board each year?

I have not the figures with me, but if my hon. Friend cares to put a Question down, I will be happy to provide them.

Is the hon. Lady entirely unaware of the opposition which has been very clearly shown at the inquiry at Aberystwyth?

I am well aware of a great deal of misrepresentation in which unfortunately the hon. Member appears to have joined.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will seek powers to enable him to investigate the extent to which the content of school text books in current use encourages racial discrimination.

No new powers would be needed to promote such an investigation, but I do not think this would be the best way of spending the limited amount of money available to us for research.

Would my right hon. Friend note that there are some differences of opinion and that there is considerable prima facie evidence to suggest that the content of school learning is often, very subtly, to encourage an attitude of racial superiority, derived from our Empire stance? Would she have another more sympathetic look at this proposal?

The only reason I replied as I did is that we should like to concentrate our efforts on new books rather than conduct a survey of old books, which would be very clostly. It is important that new books and teaching materials should be of good quality, and should be the right kind of books, and that teachers should be fully aware of what is available. We are doing our best, through various publications, and through State courses and so on, to bring this to the notice of teachers.

Would the right hon. Lady add that it is most undesirable in principle to tamper with school books in order to try to ensure that they represent particular political views?

I am sure that that is not what my hon. Friend was suggesting. He is anxious only that the books in schools should put forward a present-day view on these very important matters. I think that teachers are well aware of the problem and will ensure that books of the right quality are available in our schools.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether a new medical school will be established at Keele University.

The proposals for new medical schools contained in the Report of the Royal Commission on Medical Education are being urgently considered by the Government and the University Grants Committee and the other bodies concerned. I am aware of the need for more doctors, and will make a statement as soon as these consultations are completed.

Would my right hon. Friend note that there is some urgency for an announcement by the Government of their policy towards the Royal Commission's Report on Medical Eduction? Would he note that the experiments at Keele University have aroused a good deal of admiration among both educationists and doctors?

I recognise the need for urgency and the importance of this matter, especially for those concerned with planning in the hospitals and the universities.

In view of the known tendency for doctors to settle in practice in the areas in which they were trained, would the right hon. Gentleman recognise the desirability of establishing new medical schools in areas in which there is an acute shortage of doctors such as those adjacent to the new University of Keele?

There is a Question later about the geographical spread of medical schools. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would wait for that.

While North Staffordshire, as an intermediate area, has been very grateful for the developments which the Government have allowed, would my right hon. Friend bear in mind that the development of a medical school at Keele would give as great a boost to the morale of the area as the issue of further industrial development certificates by the Board of Trade?

I am aware that a great many right hon. and hon. Members would like new medical schools at their own local universities. But we must wait until we have consulted everybody concerned about the recommendations in the Report.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when the National Advisory Council for the Training and Supply of Teachers will be re-activated; and if he will make a statement.

I am considering this question in the wider context of the status of the teaching profession.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his reply. However, would he expedite his consideration, because it is a considerable time since the Council functioned?

I agree. There has been a very great delay. There were difficulties with the previous Council. I hope, however, that I shall be able to make an announcement about this matter before long.

Would the Secretary of State give careful consideration to the possibility of setting up a council for teacher education on a wider basis than the old National Advisory Council? Many people are aware of the defects of the old Council, although it did much useful work. Many feel that the time has come for the setting up of a council of the wider kind which I have suggested.

I am aware of that and of the difficulties of the old Council, but I hope that we may set up something perhaps even wider and more comprehensive than the right hon. Gentleman has suggested.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what guidance he has given to local education authorities regarding the continued supply of free milk to independent junior schools.

None, Sir.

Would the right hon. Lady remind local education authorities that parents who send their children to independent schools are ratepayers and taxpayers in exactly the same way as everybody else and that to discriminate against them in the supply of school milk is victimisation of a most unfair and unpleasant kind?

I think that local authorities are fully aware of the position. They know that they have a duty to provide milk in maintained schools and only a power to do so in non-maintained schools. I do not think that they need reminding of that.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if the Medical Research Council trial, which has proved the effectiveness of vaccination against measles, included information on the value of vaccination against german measles.

No, Sir. Rubella, or german measles, is an unrelated illness, but the Council is organising a separate series of trials of rubella vaccines.

Will the Medical Research Council take into consideration the researches done two years ago in America where they felt that they had the answer to this problem? Since this is an important factor in causing deafness, will my right hon. Friend expedite the work being done by the Medical Research Council?

I am sure that the Medical Research Council is aware of the urgency of this matter. But there is a particular hazard for women in the early stages of pregnancy. I am sure that my hon. Friend is aware of that. The matter must be treated carefully, and I am sure that the Council is aware of the need to find a solution.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will send a circular to all local education authorities advising them that membership of an appropriate trade union should be a condition of service for new appointments to their salaried staff.

Conditions of service in local government are matters for the local authorities.

While wishing to encourage every teacher to join the union of his own choice, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he remembers what a predecessor of his did some years ago in connection with the action of the Durham County Council?

That happened in 1951 when there was a direction under Section 68. It was issued because the Minister felt that the council might not be able to carry out its statutory duties.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many local education authorities are still awaiting approval for their 1968–69 school building programmes.

Letters have been sent this week to all local education authorities in England and Wales.

Is the Secretary of State aware that great inconvenience has been caused to local education authorities which have, I believe, this day received information about the building programme for 1968–69? Would he like to take the opportunity of expressing his apologies to them for the inconvenience so caused?

This is a consequence of postponing the raising of the school- leaving age. I met the chief education officers this week, and I am sure that they fully understand the reasons for the delay.

Have the final allocations now been sent out or is the right hon. Gentleman, as on many previous occasions, keeping some money in reserve for those authorities which can put forward the strongest case for an addition to their programmes?

I am afraid that the final allocations have been sent out for this year.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether she will consult with the Regional Arts Associations with a view to their undertaking the arrangements for tours by small companies, so as to ensure continuity of their engagements.

Nearly all the regional arts associations already arrange tours by small companies, and on 14th June representatives of the associations discussed inter-regional co-operation in this field. A meeting of their officers will be held in November to discuss touring plans for the following years.

I thank the right hon. Lady for that reply. However, would she bear in mind the necessity of urging forward the inter-regionalisation administrative arrangements so that companies such as the Minerva Ballet, which do such good work on an Arts Council shoestring, may have the assurance of continuity?

I am sure that all our regional associations will be looking round eagerly for every gifted company on the boards.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what proposals he is considering for a scheme to provide painters and sculptors with royalties on their work.

I have received an outline of a scheme under which painters and sculptors would share in the increased prices resulting from re-sales of their work and am aware that in France and other countries some such provision has already been made. As this proposal has copyright implications I am consulting my colleagues in the Board of Trade.

Is the right hon. Lady aware of the widespread interest which there will be in what she has said today? Will she let the House and the public know details of this scheme so that they can decide whether they think that it is a good idea?

I have given the House all the information I can. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his interest. We should be able to work out a viable plan.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will introduce legislation to provide that where students at universities take part in sit-in strikes they will be charged for the use of the buildings involved.

No, Sir.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the public are getting a bit fed up with students who indulge in sit-ins and occupy premises which are paid for by the public and who are receiving grants? Will he make it clear to students that there are no such things as free universities and charge them accordingly for the use of premises?

University discipline is a matter for the universities which, usually by Royal Charter or Act of Parliament, are autonomous, and I have no power to intervene, even if I wished to do so. I think it is worth pointing out that in no case in this country has a majority of students carried out lawless behaviour of this kind, and in every case in which a majority of students have asserted themselves the trouble has ended.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that if he took serious cognisance of the supplementary question of the hon. Member for Rutland and Stamford (Mr. Kenneth Lewis) he would immediately be accused of using the heavy hand of the State to muzzle free expression of views by students in this country?

I do not condone lawlessness or breaches of the law. I condemn them very strongly. But the time to beware is when students stop protesting.

Is the right hon. Gentleman prepared to institute a full inquiry into relationships between students and university authorities?

There is a later Question about an inquiry.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what steps he is taking to assist local education authorities to set up more day and evening training courses to train enough nursery teachers to meet the rising demand as a result of the implementation of the Education Act, 1944.

Twenty-five colleges of education now advertise courses of training for teachers specialising in the age ranges covering both the nursery and infant age groups, and the numbers of students have risen from 941 in 1964–65 to 1,209 in 1966–67. The present shortage of infant teachers makes it necessary for the colleges to concentrate their main efforts on the compulsory stages of education; but where colleges are able and staffed to offer courses which cover the nursery stages as well we are happy to authorise this.

I am obliged to my right hon. Friend for that reply. However, will she endeavour to give more encouragement to local education authorities to start more of these training courses, especially for nursery teachers, in view of the rising demand all over the country for the implementation of the 1944 Act relating to nursery education, which was underlined by the Plowden Report? I am sure that my right hon. Friend will have support from the whole House if she does this.

I think that my hon. Friend is a little confused between nursery teachers and nursery assistants.

No.

The Plowden Report particularly asked for training of nursery assistants.

rose—

I fully understand my hon. Friend's question. There are the two points: nursery teachers and nursery assistants. It would be wrong at this time to have a great many nursery assistants trained unless we could offer them places in nursery school classes.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what steps he is taking to ensure that the 19 empty primary classrooms in Wolverhampton schools are used for the children of school age who have been unable to get a school place so far.

This is a matter for the authority, who have told me that they hope to staff and fill every available classroom by next September.

Is not this a very extraordinary situation? In spite of my right hon. Friend's generosity in allowing the Wolverhampton education authority to build four new primary schools, there are still 400 children unable to get places. Does my right hon. Friend not think she should be much tougher with the education authority to see that these empty classrooms are in fact used? This is a nonsensical situation, and it is depriving large numbers of children of the education that they should have.

My right hon. Friend and I visited Wolverhampton recently and noted the position there. Some of these empty classrooms are caused by the fact that numbers on the new estates have not risen to the expected maximum and because the local authority cannot get the necessary teachers. I would emphasise that my right hon. Friend is willing to raise the quota, and indeed has done so, in these areas of special difficulty. But it is the inability of certain authorities to recruit the numbers of teachers in their quota which makes the problem so difficult.

Will the right hon. Lady agree that nothing causes more genuine indignation than the spectacle of empty classrooms in the same city where one has overcrowded schools? Will the right hon. Lady do what she can to see that the situation does not arise again, particularly in the West Midlands, where she knows there are special problems?

Yes, certainly. As I said, my right hon. Friend and I visited the West Midlands and we discussed all these problems. I hope that before long these classrooms will be full.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what representations he has received about congestion in the British Museum; and what action he is taking to ensure presentation of its unique exhibits in a manner consistent with contemporary museum standards.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what progress he has made in remedying the shortage of room for exhibits at the British Museum.

Funds are now available for a number of important developments at the British Museum as part of the 12-year building programme for the National Museums and Galleries— projects include a microfilm unit at Colin-dale, a photographic studio, a public restaurant and the reconstruction of the bronze and vase rooms.

I can assure my right hon. Friend that her Answer will be welcomed by all who believe that museums could do a great deal more in education as a whole. Will my right hon. Friend encourage the authorities in the British Museum and other museums to arrange exhibits to cater particularly for the needs of young people and schoolchildren?

I can assure my hon. Friend that very high priority is now being given in our museums to special exhibitions which will encourage visits by children.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that Answer, may I ask whether she will arrange for exhibits, for which there is no room for display, to be loaned temporarily to other museums in other parts of the country?

I know about the problem of trying to move exhibits from one part of the country to another. I can only say that our museum authorities are in an extremely co-operative mood and that they want to assist one another as much as possible.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the present state of Great Britain's negotiations over the Common Market, he will now set up a study group to consider alternatives.

I would refer the hon. Member to the Answers I gave to Questions on 18th June, just two days ago.—[Vol. 766, c. 906–8.]

As the study which the Government made well over a year ago showed that there were considerable economic advantages in the proposition of the Atlantic Free Trade Area over joining the Common Market, will the Government publish that study, particularly because of the rising interest of many right hon. and hon. Members on both sides?

I am aware of the rising interest and the importance of the subject. It would not be appropriate to publish internal documents of that kind, not least because I gave to the House, and so did my right hon. Friends, the fullest arguments which emerged from our study of the subject.

Will the Prime Minister take this opportunity to reiterate clearly and unmistakably, first, that we believe in the concept of a united Europe; secondly, that that concept is meaningless without Great Britain; and, thirdly, that the first step towards attaining it is the early accession of Britain to the European Economic Community?

Yes. I reiterated that very clearly last Tuesday, and several times in the last month. On Tuesday I also emphasised the need for a truly united Europe looking outwards and uniting, as far as possible, the whole of Europe, not just a part of it.

Has the Prime Minister entirely closed his mind to a consideration of any other alternative, or is he prepared to examine, in a much more flexible attitude than has been shown hitherto, the whole question of alternatives to entering the Common Market?

I have said that there are possible advantages, but that this particular proposal is not a current reality. After very deep consideration, our view was that membership of the E.E.C. and of the other communities was by far the best thing for Britain and for Europe.

asked the Prime Minister whether the speech of the Lord President of the Council on Friday, 29th March at Basildon on post-devaluation economic strategy represents the policy of Her Majesty's Government.

In referring the hon. Member to the Answer which I gave to a similar Question by the right hon. Member for Kingston-upon-Thames (Mr. Boyd-Carpenter) on 28th May, which followed 12 Answers given by me in this House on this particular speech of nearly three months ago, I regret that the hon. Member has thought fit to waste the time of the House by repeatedly tabling and retabling this Question on the Order Paper, Sir.—[Vol. 765, c. 208–9.]

If the Prime Minister thinks that he has already adequately dealt with this Question, will he now take the advice of the Lord President of the Council to take the people of this country into his confidence and tell them about the true state of this country's international indebtedness?

I dealt with all the questions arising from my right hon. Friend's speech in 12 Oral Answers that I have given to the House. If the hon. Gentleman is fairly interested in the position of our international indebtedness, perhaps he will put down a Question to the appropriate Minister.

rose—

On a point of order. My right hon. Friend said that he had answered 12 Oral Questions on this matter. Does not the rule of tedious repetition extend to this? Mr. Speaker, will you give consideration to the idea that a continuity of repetitive Questions, which always come on to the Prime Minister's list, amounts to an abuse?

I do give consideration, but there is little I can do about it.

Whilst recognising that the original Question was framed for cheap party interests rather than Britain's, is it not a fact that the recent figures of capital outflow are sufficiently disturbing to make the Government perhaps reconsider their strategy, at least in this sense, and recognise that, no matter what value there is in capital outflow abroad at some times, at the present time, as we need it so desperately at home, it might be as well to reconsider it?

That is an important but entirely different question. It was not raised in my right hon. Friend's speech at Basildon on 29th March, and it raises broad issues which, as my hon. Friend knows, have been repeatedly debated in the House, and which are incapable of being answered adequately at Question and Answer time.

On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, in view of the answer you gave to my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds, West (Mr. C. Pannell) that you could do nothing about repetitive Questions, may I draw your attention to the fact that Erskine May states categorically that no Question may be put down which has already been answered? In view of that, may I suggest that it is within your power and authority to take action?

I assure the hon. Member that the Table refuses Questions which have already been answered. There are, however, circumstances in which the Table must accept Questions from hon. Members.

The Prime Minister and his hon. Friends do not realise the fascinating importance of the Lord President's speech. One of the things which he emphasised most was that the Government's economic strategy would not be effective unless the Prime Minister and the Government took the people of this country into their confidence. When will the Prime Minister explain, as his hon. Friend has asked, the seriousness of the economic situation in which the first quarter's deficit was £370 million, in which unemployment is now the highest for any June since June, 1940, and in which the Government's net borrowing is now 10 per cent. of the national income for the year?

None of that arises out of my hon. Friend's question. The right hon. Gentleman is free to raise the matter at any time and to get a very full answer. What my hon. Friend raised was the question of capital controls. If the right hon. Gentleman wants to urge capital controls upon us because of the very high element in the first quarter's figures, I shall note what he said.

Does the Prime Minister's answer that if a Question is put down about our indebtedness it will get a full reply mean that he will now tell us the answer?

With regard to a question about indebtedness, I said last week that we followed the practice of the previous Government, of which the right hon. Gentleman was a member.

On a point of order. As my Question has three times been referred to in points of order—

Order. If the hon. Member wishes to give notice, he must do it in the proper way.

I am not doing that. With respect, Mr. Speaker, you have anticipated what I was not going to say. As my Question has been referred to, I want on a point of order to state that it was put down within 48 hours of the speech being made. The reason why it has not been answered is the turgidity of the Prime Minister in not answering Questions when they are put to him.

Part of that is a point of fact, the other is a point of comment.

asked the Prime Minister what reply he has sent to the letter he received on 9th May from seven economists, headed by Mr. Edward Holloway, on the causes of the current inflationary pressures within the economy.

I have arranged for my correspondence with this group of political economists to be placed in the Library, Sir.

Is it not a fact that these distinguished economists drew the Prime Minister's attention to the worldwide lack of confidence in Britain arising from our continuing failure to contain inflation? Does not the Prime Minister feel that the latest depressing figures of industrial production, coupled with the ever-rising trend of Government expenditure, give compelling evidence of the validity of the case which these economists are making?

I thought that these very distinguished political economists succeeded in putting into economic jargon some of the more ignorant shibboleths of hon. Gentlemen opposite. On the specific point raised by the hon. Gentleman, he will have seen, as I think I said in my reply, that the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development shows that ours is neither the most highly taxed country, nor does Government expenditure absorb more of our resources than in many other countries in comparable circumstances.

Perhaps I might remind hon. Gentlemen opposite that the 13 halcyon years of Tory rule are the most dramatic refutation that we have of the public expenditure thesis. In the first five years when public expenditure fell from 40 per cent. to 36 per cent. of national income there was a growth rate of 2 per cent. When it rose from 36 per cent. to 40 per cent. the growth rate was just under 3 per cent. If the Friedman Chicago school of monetary theory is laughed at in the United States, why should we take it seriously here?

I think that all those considerations are extremely germane to the correspondence which I have had with these economists, but I do not think that it is for me to add to the enlightenment which my hon. Friend has been giving to hon. Gentlemen opposite, except, on the point of Government expenditure, to say that out of every 10 proposals which we make for cuts in Government expenditure the Opposition vote against nine, and campaign against all 10.

Will the Prime Minister make clear whether he agrees or disagrees with the verdict of these economists that the prime cause of inflation has been the fact that in the last three years deficit expenditure to the amount of more than £3,000 million has been covered not by borrowings from the private non-bank sector, but by the central banks?

I should not use the word "verdict" about an ex-parte statement by these economists. The answer to the right hon. Gentleman's question is, "No, I do not agree with their analysis or their conclusions".

asked the Prime Minister when the next Commonwealth Prime Ministers' conference will take place.

I have as yet nothing to add to the Answers I gave on 2nd May and 4th April to Questions by the hon. Member for Banbury (Mr. Marten) and the hon. and learned Member for Antrim, South (Sir Knox Cunningham).—[Vol. 763, c. 1285–7; Vol. 762, c. 600–1.]

Will my right hon. Friend consider submitting a proposal to his Commonwealth colleagues to hold such a Conference on the basis of showing the British Commonwealth flag and ideals in Salisbury in Rhodesia?

The Question relates to holding a conference, and we were not proposing to hold it in Salisbury. The venue has not been settled, and there is this great difficulty, that with 27 independent countries of the Commonwealth it is proving very difficult to get agreement on a particular date when we can all be present, and when, unlike at the recent Commonwealth conference, we shall have present a very high proportion of Heads of Government. I hope that we shall agree on a date, but nearly every date suggested so far has been difficult for one or more Prime Ministers. We have ourselves put forward a number of alternative dates.

asked the Prime Minister whether the public statement of the Secretary of State for Defence at Brussels on 10th May, regarding the level of forces available to the British Army of the Rhine, represents the policy of Her Majesty's Government.

Yes, Sir.

Did not the Secretary of State say that this extra assignment of 20,000 men was to help Britain's connection with the Common Market? Is not that a bad reason for a bad policy? When N.A.T.O. is supposed to be considering mutual troop reductions east and west, why on earth should Britain appear to move in the opposite direction?

I have read my right hon. Friend's speech. I did not find that thought expressed on those words, but I shall look at it again. My right hon. Friend gave the reasons for this decision. With regard to mutual reductions, it is the policy of the Government, and we are pursuing it very actively, and shall be again at Reykjavik, to try to get an agreed reduction in military strength on both sides of the Iron Curtain. That is different from a unilateral reduction by the West.

In the light of the Government's statement after the recent Kuala Lumpur conference, will the units committed to N.A.T.O. remain readily available, without inhibition for redeployment east of Suez?

That does not affect our ability to formulate a general capability in circumstances where we consider it right to make a contribution. I think the right hon. Gentleman will know that under successive Governments we have from time to time, when an im- portant Commonwealth or other commitment has to be met, drawn on troops in Germany equally with drawing on troops in this country. What my right hon. Friend said at Kuala Lumpur does not make any difference.

I think that every hon. Member, on both sides, will agree that we should seek a reduction of forces on both sides of the Iron Curtain, but was it nevertheless appropriate for the Minister to say that the assignment of additional forces is associated with our desire to enter the Common Market?

I said that I wanted to study the exact wording, because I had not read that into it. What my right hon. Friend was saying and has said many times in the House, and what was the basis of the defence debates this year, is that our decisions to redeploy the forces at present east of Suez will mean a heavier concentration of our defence effort on and in Europe. That was the theme of what he was saying. On the question of the mutual troop reductions, I have nothing to add to what I told my hon. Friend the Member for Salford, East (Mr. Frank Allaun).

In view of the tense situation in Germany and the possibility that a future American Administration might reduce its forces in Europe, would the right hon. Gentieman consider very carefully before accepting any of the advice of his hon. Friends to reduce Rhine Army?

All these matters are appropriate to collective discussion in N.A.T.O., and this very question, I am certain, will be one of the leading matters to be discussed at Reykjavik next week.