asked the Postmaster-General if he will take steps to ensure that postage franking machines are convertible to decimal currency with the minimum of disruption and inconvenience to users.

We have arranged that the companies who supply the machines now sell models which print the postage in pence only instead of shillings and pence. They have also begun a programme to convert or exchange the 74,000 machines already in use to the pence only system before February, 1971. This early start will minimise conversion difficulties and reduce the actual change required at decimalisation to one of accounting only.

Would my hon. Friend accept that the users will greatly welcome these early steps to minimise difficulties? Can he give us an estimate of the total cost of these conversions?

I am grateful for my hon. Friend's remarks about the early steps that have been taken. The cost is a matter for the suppliers and users of the machines, and it will vary according to the type of machine. So far as I am aware, no estimate of the total cost is available at this stage.

asked the Postmaster-General if he intends to extend the postcode system to other cities; and what will be the saving of manpower and of cost as a result.

Yes, Sir. Postcodes have been introduced in London, W.1 and 21 provincial towns. We will complete the coding of London and 70 large provincial towns by 1970. Postcodes enable mail to be sorted by machines. We cannot yet be precise about the manpower saving but the investment will be well worthwhile.

Is not the Postmaster-General aware that these postcodes are about as difficult to remember as the all-figure telephone numbers? Will he not take that disadvantage into account to be set against any saving?

I believe that in time people will get used to the numbers, however complicated they may appear to be at the outset.

Contrary to the view expressed in the last question, does not my hon Friend think it a little strange that the Post Office are to introduce letters and numbers in these codes at the same time as they are trying to get rid of letters for telephone numbers?

No. The same considerations do not apply. With telephones we have to bear in mind the need for international dialling when the instruments abroad are not the same as they are in this country.

Is the Postmaster-General aware that those of us who have been to Norwich have been impressed by the experiment in mechanisation taking place there? But is he aware that I found the Post Office workers rather depressed at the slow speed at which this work was developing and spreading to other telephones?

I am glad that the hon. Member and his colleagues have had a chance to see that development, which I hope soon to see for myself, but I am not aware that the staff have expressed any doubts about it.

asked the Postmaster-General what plans he has for improving the security of mail bags, especially those containing registered mail, while they are in transit at London Airport.

The safe passage of mail through Heathrow Airport is a matter which receives constant attention jointly from the Post Office and the air carriers. I am sure the House would not expect me to divulge any information about either our present security arrangements or our plans for improving them.

While appreciating the last part of the reply, may I ask the Assistant Postmaster-General whether he is aware that there have been a number of thefts, particularly of registered bags, which apparently are separately marked and easy to find? Will he look into that aspect of the problem?

The loss of mail is a matter of great concern to my right hon. Friend and myself and we have plans for improving our security arrangements, but I emphasise that none of the losses which have received such wide publicity over the last year or so occurred while the mail was in Post Office custody.

asked the Postmaster-General if he is satisfied with the efficiency of the telex service; and if he will make a statement.

The inland service is generally good, but I am certainly not satisfied with the overseas service, where there are deficiencies due to shortages of equipment and staff. In the context of greatly increasing demand, we are doing all we can to put this right.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the overseas service has now become so bad that not only the customers but even the operators are writing to hon. Members complaining about it?

Yes, Sir. I have gone into the matter with great care. The service is not as good as it should be, but I hope that it will be improved.

asked the Postmaster-General how many parcels, packets and letters from Rhodesia have been opened since 14th June.

Existing Regulations require the Post Office to open any postal packet coming in from abroad at the request of H.M. Customs. Since the coming into operation of the Rhodesia Sanctions Order all mails received by sea or air from Rhodesia have immediately been made available to the Customs authority for examination.

Does that reply mean that all letters from Rhodesia are now being opened, or can be opened, by the Customs in order to extract information? While the Government deny censorship, is not this expressly that?

The simple answer is that all mails arriving from Rhodesia are immediately made available to Her Majesty's Customs for examination.

Can the hon. Gentleman say how much additional cost this will be over a year?

Additional cost to whom?

The taxpayer.

Order. A Minister does not ask questions; he answers them.

asked the Postmaster-General what was the cost of the Post Office advertisement in theSunday Times Magazine for 14th July; and for what purpose it was intended.

No Post Office advertisement appeared in theSunday Times Magazine for 14th July. Perhaps the hon. Member has in mind the advertisement which appeared in theObserver on that day: the cost was £1,887.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the advertisement has been run in a number of Sunday magazines, that it does not advertise any of the services of the Post Office or any of its activities, except to say that the Post Office exists? As most people recognise that the Post Office exists, very few people can understand what useful purpose this advertising serves.

As with other large organisations, it is to the benefit of the Post Office to promote its very good image, and it is very good for staff morale to see this advertisement appearing. Considering the amount of money involved, it is very good value.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that it is accepted on both sides of the House that the performance of the staff is outstanding, a view which is shared by the public, but that the public cannot understand the need for this excessive expenditure on advertisements in the national Press of services which the Post Office staffs advertise better than any advertisement?

As the Post Office has a turnover of £800 million a year, this is a very small amount to spend on promoting the image which we project. I think that generally the staff is very pleased to have this opportunity of promoting itself to the public.

asked the Postmaster-General what is the estimated capital cost of the new postal arrangements in the autumn; and what is the estimated increased annual cost.

I do not expect any increase in net costs.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I am absolutely fed up with the re-organisation, that we pay more and more and get less and less?

That is quite untrue. The service of the Post Office is being improved considerably as a result of the new equipment which we are introducing.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he will arrange that in future the annual report and accounts of the British Broadcasting Corporation will include information on the cost of programmes which are produced but not screened.

No, Sir.

Is the Minister aware that, in the near future, the public will be called upon to pay more in licence fees? Surely they should be told how that money is squandered?

It would be most unwise for me to interfere into the day-today running of the affairs of the B.B.C, and certainly it would be unwise to discourage it from producing venturesome programmes.

Is it not true that the total cost of programmes per hour is known and, of course, that this cost includes the cost of scrapped programmes?

Yes.

asked the Postmaster-General what steps have been taken to improve the reception of television programmes in mid-Anglia.

Measures to improve the reception of television programmes are a matter for the B.B.C. and I.T.A. in the first place. They tell me that reception of B.B.C.1 and Independent Television is generally satisfactory in Cambridgeshire.

Does not the hon. Gentleman realise that, contrary to that, a great many viewers in the area are dissatisfied with the reception of B.B.C. programmes, and, particularly now that the Postmaster-General has authorised an increase in licence fees, will he please ask the B.B.C. to take further steps to improve it?

It may be that reception is not as good as one would like to see it for people resident in that area, but it must be taken into consideration that there are certain atmospheric conditions in which interference in the area is caused by foreign stations a considerable distance away, and, in the same way, our transmissions interfere with theirs. The House will be interested to know that the B.B.C. has built a large number of low-powered relay stations, including one at Cambridge, which, by providing a stronger signal, reduce the interference problem, and some viewers may also be able to help themselves by consulting a radio dealer about their aerials.

Order. Long answers mean fewer Questions.

asked the Postmaster General what consideration he is now giving to the development of local radio stations in Scotland; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Postmaster-General how many local radio stations are now working; and what proposals he has received from local authorities in Scotland in this field.

All eight of the B.B.C.'s experimental stations are now broadcasting. Any plans for further stations must await the review of this experiment. I have received no further proposals from local authorities in Scotland.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that probably one of the reasons for the lack of enthusiasm for local radio is the fact that since the B.B.C. have become pop-punchers, traditional radio programmes have been adversely affected? Will he try to improve the service and thus encourage local authorities, especially in the central belt, to proceed with local radio stations?

I am not aware that the quality of B.B.C. programmes as a whole has deteriorated as a result of the experiment, but I will certainly look very kindly at my hon. Friend's suggestion when we review the experiment in about a year's time.

What representations have been received or what initiatives have been taken by which local authorities in Scotland? Does any initiative rest with my right hon. Friend to encourage them to set about this imaginative scheme?

I am not in a position to say which authorities have been in touch with us, but I will certainly take initiative next year if, in the light of the conclusions of this experimental run, we think that that will be a wise thing to do.

Is the Postmaster-General in a position to answer the Question put to him last week by my hon. Friend the Member for Howden (Mr. Bryan)—how much has the B.B.C. spent to date on the running costs of these experimental stations?

Order. The Question is about local radio stations in Scotland.

On a point of order. With great respect, Mr. Speaker, the first part of Question No. 14 deals with the general point and it is only the second part which relates to Scotland.

I agree. The Minister will answer the supplementary question.

I will obtain the information and write to the hon. Member.

asked the Postmaster-General (1) if he will now extend the viewing hours of television;

asked the Postmaster-General if he will undertake not to sanction an increase in the British Broadcasting Corporation licence fee until he has been informed that a report on the organisation has been received from the management consultants.

asked the Postmaster-General what alteration he proposes to make in the number of hours during which television broadcasts are permitted; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Postmaster-General whether it was with his authority that the Press were officially informed on Firday, 19th July, of the Government's intention to make an announcement on Thursday, 25th July, of a 20 per cent. increase in the annual television licence fee; why, in view of the Government's prices and incomes policy he has agreed to this increase; whether he will refer the proposed increase to the National Board for Prices and Incomes; and whether he will make a statement.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he will now make a statement about the British Broadcasting Corporation's licence fee.

asked the Postmaster-General how he proposes to finance an increase in the television broadcasting hours of the British Broadcasting Corporation.

I would refer hon. Members to my statement of 23rd July.— [Vol. 769, c. 276–84.]

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the public anger that is felt over the 20 per cent. increase in the licence fee and over his very unconvincing explanation for short circuiting the Prices and Incomes Board? Have any studies been made into the possibility of employing other methods to raise revenue for the B.B.C.?

To answer the first part of the right hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, I am not aware of any great anger because I believe that the public recognise that they are getting value for money. The cost of having a black and white T.V. is only about 4d. a day and the service received for that is very good indeed.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that most people in the United Kingdom will welcome his proposal to increase television hours? [HON. MEMBERS: "Nonsense."] Is he aware that most people would wish to have more than an average of an extra half-an-hour a week? Is he further aware that, like hon. Gentlemen opposite, many hon. Members on this side of the House would be prepared to consider other means of raising finance?

I think that my hon. Friend has misunderstood the statement I made. It is not an extra half-an-hour a week but an extra half-an-hour a day.

It was a mis-statement.

As for investigating further ways of financing the Corporation, we will in due course have to consider this subject.

Would my right hon. Friend consider introducing the principle of selectivity in charging, as with medical prescription charges, particularly for the deaf, disabled, chronic sick and old-age pensioners?

I said on Tuesday that it would be very difficult indeed to introduce the principle of a benefit in kind. If my hon. Friend will write to me with any reasonable suggestions, I will, of course, consider them; but I see great problems in trying to do what has been suggested.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that on Tuesday the House rightly poured scorn on that part of his statement in which he said that a reference to the P.I.B. would have been, to use his word, "inappropriate"? Will he now explain what he meant by that word? Did he mean impossible, inconvenient or what?

This is not a charge in the normal sense—[Interruption.] It will cover additional expenses on the part of the B.B.C., something which the hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends a few years ago supported when they were in power. That being so, it is ridiculous for them to agree to an extension of the services, the switching to 625 lines, the building of new stations and the improvement of broadcasting facilities and at the same time complain in this way. It would be inappropriate to refer an increase in a fee which is related to extra services and improved broadcasting facilities to the P.I.B. As I say, we are not increasing a charge for a similar service. The service is being improved.

rose—

Order. Long answers mean fewer Questions. Mr. Yates.

Since the House does not appear to have much control over the activities of the broadcasting organisations, would my right hon. Friend try to arrange for more frequent reports on the subject to be presented to Parliament so that hon. Members may thoroughly examine the activities of these organisations?

I am satisfied that the degree of control which we have is sufficient. If my hon. Friend will suggest to the Leader of the House that we have a debate on the subject, I would support that.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that, rather than lengthen the hours of television, it might be better to have better quality programmes and fewer old films? Will he set his mind against the prejudice on the benches opposite about advertising so that extra revenue may be available for better programmes?

I would personally favour the development of more live programmes and more up-to-date films. Both the B.B.C. and the I.T.A. are paying attention to this point.

Does my right hon. Friend recognise the great public interest that exists in any price increase? Usually the Government are blamed for these increases. Since the great communicators now have an opportunity, to do something really constructive, if my right hon. Friend cannot instruct them, will he at least arrange for the B.B.C. and the other lot to give ample viewing time for all the problems associated with the increase to be explained?

I am sure that both the B.B.C. and the I.T.A. will have taken note of that comment.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say if he has talked with the Minister of Social Security to arrange for this extra £1 licence fee to be taken into account in assessing admissibility for sup-plentary pensions for elderly and needy persons?

That is an excellent point. I have not yet done what the hon. Gentleman suggests, but I will certainly discuss the matter with my right hon. Friend.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many Americans only wish that they had an advertisement-free broadcasting system like we have? Will he consider subsidising the cost of the B.B.C. with some of the very large profits made by the independent television companies so that, for example, disabled people may be given free licences?

I am not particularly attracted by that suggestion.

asked the Postmaster-General how much money he intends to spend on television advertising this year.

About £260,000. Over £100,000 of this will be spent on behalf of the Treasury as part of the "Small Saver" campaign. Of the balance, £60,000 will be spent on lauching the new Giro service.

Would the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that the television advertisements will not have the same trivial naivety as the Press advertisements currently running in theFinancial Times and other newspapers?

I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman's criticism. I believe that both the television and Press advertising being promoted by my Department is extremely good.

Does the right hon. Gentleman think that advertisements such as the one I am holding up for hon. Members to see and which appeared in theFinancial Times at a cost of over £900 will result in a commercial return?

There is a later Question down about this form of advertising.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will make a statement on pay television.

I am not yet ready to make an announcement, but I hope to do so very shortly.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his predecessor had already made up his mind and we thought that we were to receive it at any moment.

I saw this on my desk as soon as I arrived in office and I have been giving it very careful consideration. There are several factors which I have to consider and I am hoping to reach my conclusions shortly.

asked the Postmaster-General what steps are being taken to provide B.B.C. 2 programmes and colour television to those parts of Wharfedale between Harewood and Ilkley; and if he will now arrange for a reduction in the television licence fees to all receivers who are unable to obtain B.B.C. 2 programmes.

The B.B.C. tells me that it hopes to open the Bilsdale U.H.F. station, radiating B.B.C. 2 with its colour content, and which will serve the Harewood area, during the winter of 1968–69. Towards the end of 1969, a satellite station will be opened to relay the service to Wharfedale as far as Ilkley.

Is it not absolutely disgusting that the Postmaster-General should condone the charging of a fee for services which the B.B.C. does not provide?

I remind the hon. and gallant Gentleman that I dealt with that and with television reception and even the charges in an Adjournment debate on 22nd March.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will seek to amend the Television Act so as to prohibit references in all programmes other than news programmes tosub judice matters, in the light of the observations of the learned judge in the Court of Appeal in relation to the Savundra case.

No, Sir. The law of contempt already applies to broadcasting. Amendments of the kind in question are unnecessary.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there have been a number of serious offences of this kind? Has he drawn the attention of both the Chairman of the B.B.C. and the Chairman of the Independent Television Authority to the seriousness of these breaches? It may well be that some future offenders will not be so lucky with their judges as have been those in more recent cases.

I agree. There have been serious examples of trial by T.V. and I am sure that the Chairman of the B.B.C. and the Chairman of the I.T.A. share my view and are to do something about it.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that the learned judge paid tribute to the work which the broadcasting authorities and the newspapers had done in exposing fraud and other crime? Is he aware that he is quite right to say that the law of contempt is adequate to deal with this sort of thing and that we should have the minimum interference with the freedom of expression?

I am satisfied that we can leave this serious subject to the Chairmen of the B.B.C. and the I.T.A.

asked the Postmaster-General when he intends to pay a visit to the telephone exchange in Hull.

I have no plans at present to visit Hull.

Does not the Postmaster-General think that that would be very worthwhile, because he could then discover why we have to pay ever-increasing charges for our telephone services whereas in Hull the charge is 3d. per call and the charge for the private subscriber is £25 a year, with as many free calls as he likes?

I am always willing to learn from anybody else. If Hull has anything to teach the G.P.O., we are only too pleased to learn it. But I believe that they have more to learn from us than we have to learn from them. The charges are comparable.

We welcome the Postmaster-General's magnificent offer of exchange, but will my right hon. Friend take it from me and from my colleagues representing the other Hull constituencies that we do not welcome the help of any other Member of the House, least of all a Member from East Anglia? Nevertheless, we accept what is said about the excellence of our telephone exchange and our facilities and of the service for the people of Hull.

In view of that delightful comment from my hon. Friend, I will seek an opportunity to visit Hull.

The Postmaster-General has not given a very good explanation why the service is cheaper. Perhaps he would have another look at that and at the same time tell us why it is better.

I am not satisfied that the service is better when we consider the responsibilities of the G.P.O. for the country as a whole compared with the position in Hull, where they are dealing with a fairly restricted area and where they do not have the costs and complications experienced by the G.P.O. in providing a service for the United Kingdom as a whole.

asked the Postmaster-General what is the average cost of local calls under the subscriber trunk dialling system; and what is the percentage increase over fixed charge local calls.

S.T.D. calls are charged in twopenny units, according to their duration. Customers with S.T.D. pay, on average, 2·3d. for a local call; this is about 20 per cent. cheaper than the average payment by customers without S.T.D.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many calls to business houses are costing three or four times the cost of the former fixed charge calls and that that is in no way due to the fault of the caller? Will he look at that problem and, while doing so, bear in mind that at this time when the Government are pleading for price stability here is a chance for the Government to show an example?

Yes. My hon. Friend raises a point which concerns the ability of a firm called on S.T.D. to put the call quickly through to the individual concerned. I very much hope that firms will co-operate in improving their techniques in this respect.

asked the Postmaster-General why a mobile telephone exchange cannot be delivered until the end of the year at Saffron Walden, in view of the estimates originally given and the large number of applicants awaiting telephone installation.

I am pleased to say that a mobile exchange has now been made available for Saffron Walden and most people who are waiting will be given service by the late summer.

I am most grateful to the Minister. May I assure him that it is about time, too.

asked the Postmaster-General when push-button telephone facilities will become available to the general public; and what research his Department is carrying out into the development of telephone-computer pushbutton linkages which will enable private telephone subscribers and business firms to pay bills with ready-punched cards over the telephone.

We are re-examining our plans for providing push-button telephones. Until the review is complete I am unable to estimate when they will be generally available. Research is being conducted into all forms of data transmission by telephone, but it is too early to say whether this development will be economically justified.

Would my right hon. Friend accept that in striking a balance between short-term needs and long-term research there is always a danger that long-term research may be neglected? Does he not feel that unless more money is spent in the long-term, by the mid-1970s our telephone apparatus generally will compare unfavourably with some operating in other countries?

I am satisfied that the long-term research being done both by the Post Office and by industry in this country is extremely good and that it has created a situation in which we are well in advance of many other parts of the world.

Is the Postmaster-General aware that all this talk about technological advance cuts very little ice with the residents of rural Leamington Spa, some of whom have been waiting for over six months for telephones? As a new broom in his Department, would he please do something about it?

I very much hope that things can be improved.

asked the Postmaster-General (1) what are the current telephone installation charges; what these charges were on 1st January, 1965; and by what stages the increase was made;

The National Board for Prices and Incomes which reported on 11th March recommended that the normal maximum connection charge for an exchange line should be increased to £20 with corresponding increases in other parts of the scale, to take effect from October 1968. My predecessor accepted the recommendation as regards the charge, but brought it into effect on 16th April, 1968. The current charges are double those of 1st January, 1965.

But does not the Postmaster-General realise that because of the long delay, because of the time it takes to get a telephone installed, most of the charges have risen very steeply between the time of the application and the time of installation through no fault of the customers? Can he do anything to relieve their position?

It must be borne in mind that the cost of connection on average is £150 so that the maximum charge of £20 is still very reasonable. I hope that the delay in making these connections will be reduced.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the charges bear heavily on the old and the disabled? Will he give some consideration to this matter, particularly when a telephone must be transferred? Will he arrange for some easement of the charges for those two groups of people?

When there is a transfer of a telephone connection to a subscriber, there is usually no special charge. I believe that it would be unwise for us to start giving benefits in kind. We would probably find ourselves bogged down if we started doing that.

asked the Postmaster-General what consultations he is proposing to have with outside bodies before reaching his decision on the form of the London Telephone Directories.

As there had been so much public interest in this subject I decided to meet the G.L.C. and Borough Councils and a wide range of organisations and a representative group of telephone subscribers to hear their views at first hand. The meeting starts at 4 p.m. today.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that many people in London will probably require all 35 directories? Will he therefore consider a proposal for assimilating them into an easily handle-able form?

That is exactly what I am considering. I have an open mind on this; subject until I have heard all the views which may be expressed to me. If anybody still wants to have all the directories or a new A-Z directory, which will be many inches high, we will provide it.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we shall be glad to hear it if he really has an open mind, because, although we had great explanations about it, we were still very unhappy about it, especially with what was said about the American experience which had not been gone into sufficiently?

Addresses in America are far shorter than are addresses in Britain and so ours cannot be condensed to the same extent, but I want to do what is best in the interests of the subscribers as well as the G.P.O.

asked the Postmaster-General whether, in view of the number of recent representations made to him, he will now reconsider the decision to introduce all figure dialling in the Greater London Area.

No, Sir.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that the introduction of all-figure dialling will coincide with the proposed fragmentation of the London telephone directory and that this combination of events will lead to massive inconvenience to the general public?

I am not satisfied that that will be the case, but we are proposing to have maps in the telephone directories to show the location of the numbers which will give subscribers the opportunity to identify the location of the exchanges they are 'phoning.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will review the mileage which children are required to walk to schools before public transport is provided.

No, Sir. Under the existing law, local education authorities have adequate discretionary powers.

Is the right hon. Lady aware that the local education authority says that the Minister refuses to provide grants for a mileage beyond two miles and that the closing of village schools, which is happening throughout the country, is becoming a major problem, and that, with the change of time which is to take place next year, it will be even worse for children in the winter?

The hon. Gentleman is a little confused. There is no specific grant for this purpose. It comes out of the general grant to local authorities and the local education authority has the discretionary power.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will reconsider his decision to withdraw the proposal for a new comprehensive school at Daventry Road, Bristol, from the 1968–69 building programme, in view of the urgent educational needs of this part of the city of Bristol.

The local education authority did not plan to start work on this school until March 1969 and deferment until 1969–70 need have little effect on the date of completion.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that this part of Bristol is isolated from the general comprehensive development, which is a great handicap to the children living there?

I fully understand that, but the year for school building runs from 1st April to 31st March, and as this project was not ready to start until March 1969, with our limited resources, it was better to put in a school from some other area which was ready to start and to look at this for the 1969–70 programme.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will give an assurance that the new system of determining school building priorities detailed in his Circular 13/68 will not affect the priorities already accepted by him for the 1968–69 programme.

Yes, provided of course that the projects in the revised 1968–69 programme start during that year.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will give an assurance that the two school building projects at Shrewsbury Underdale County Primary School and Shrewsbury St. Mary's Roman Catholic Primary School, which were in the list of projects to be proceeded with in 1968–69 and which have now been excluded by him, will be included in the 1969–70 programme.

I cannot anticipate what Salop's programme of school building starts will be for 1969–70. I shall have to judge the Authority's proposals in the light of the resources available.

Is the right hon. Lady aware that if she is engaged in a policy of chopping and changing as between one year and another, she will destroy any continuity which she is trying to achieve?

It was done this year because of the need to take out of the building programme the money which had already been allocated for the raising of the school-leaving age. I was able to authorise four schools from the authority's list and the Underdale school was fifth while St. Mary's was eighth.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science why he has now withdrawn his approval for the urgent work previously authorised at St. Paul's Church of England School, Beverley Boys' School and Bonner Hill Secondary Girls' School in the Royal Borough of Kingston-upon-Thames; and what account he took of the disagreement over secondary school reorganisation in making these decisions.

These projects have not found places in the reconstructed school building programme for 1968–69. My decision had nothing to do with secondary reorganisation since the schools were originally submitted prior to the circular on secondary reorganisation and included in a programme.

Is the right hon. Lady aware that work on these schools is most urgently needed and the local authority concerned was given an indication that they would be improved in the second part of this year? What is the reason for putting back the provision of desperately needed educational buildings of this kind?

We had a debate on this matter this morning. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, we had to take out of this year's school building programme allocations which had been already made towards raising the school leaving age. This is the reason why some projects had to be postponed.

TO ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department, if he will announce the name of the Chairman of the Gaming Board.

Mr. Kitson. Question No. 59.

Where is the Minister?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is it not disgraceful [Interruption.]

Order. A point of order. Sir Knox Cunningham.

Mr. Speaker, is it not a disgrace that the Government have not got any Minister present to answer Questions in the House? What are the Whips doing about it? Why are they not here in their place?

Order. A further point of order. Mr. William Hamilton.

On a point of order. Is it not also a disgrace that so many Conservative hon. Members are absent, including the hon. Member for Runcorn (Mr. Carlisle), the hon. Member for Sheffield, Hallam (Mr. J. H. Osborn) and the hon. Member for Twickenham (Mr. Gresham Cooke).

Order. Hon. Members can read the Order Paper.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I should be grateful if the first point of order which was raised could be repeated because we were at somewhat of a disadvantage in not having been able to hear it on this side of the House.

Where are they?

Mr. Speaker.

Order. A point of order. Mr. Kenneth Lewis.

On a point of order. Can we suspend the sitting of the House until such time as the Minister arrives and restart Questions at a quarter to four when he is available?

Order. I answer the hon. Member. We cannot suspend the House; it is in a state of suspense at the moment. We cannot begin Questions again at a quarter to four. I have answered the hon. Member's two points.

In view of the fact that the Prime Minister is supposed to be responsible for everything, could he not answer these Questions?

On a point of order. Could the Prime Minister—

Order. A point of order. Mr. Hugh Jenkins.

Could not some arrangement be made whereby the occasional hiatus, which is very largely due, not to any fault of the Government— [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—but to the absence of hon. Members, could be avoided?

I was about to ask whether the Prime Minister could arrange for the Leader of the House to come to deal with these Questions.

Order. Questions to the Prime Minister.

On a point of order. Will the Questions which have been omitted be answered after the Prime Minister has finished answering Questions?

I have arranged that previously, but I do not know what will happen this time.

asked the Prime Minister whether, following recent developments in France, he will issue an invitation to the President of France to visit the United Kingdom so that a discussion may take place about the British application to join the Common Market.

I would yet again refer the hon. and learned Member to the Answer I gave to a Question by my hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster (Mr. Henig) on 2nd April—[Vol. 762, c. 74.]

Since the President, having held an election, has now had the overwhelming support of the people, would it not be prudent for the Prime Minister to find out his present view of the British application? Is the Prime Minister aware that in France this is called Labour's sacred cow turned dead duck?

I am sure that when he has had a holiday the hon. Member will be able to do better than that. With regard to relations with the Government of France, of course we have adequate relations to discuss these matters with the French Government. I would not rule out at the proper time a discussion with the President when I think the time is most helpful.

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that it remains Her Majesty's Government's policy to seek entry to the E.E.C. at the earliest possible date? Will my right hon. Friend say what initiative he intends to take now?

The answer to the first part of that Question is, "Yes, Sir". My hon. Friend will be aware of what my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary said about following up the Benelux proposals and, of course, other initiatives. At present the Common Market has been a little absorbed inevitably with internal problems and has not had much time to come to some of the initiatives to which my hon. Friend referred.

asked the Prime Minister if he will take steps to ensure that no chairman or other full-time member of the board of a nationalised industry is appointed chairman of other important public institutions.

No, Sir. In making appointments all relevant considerations are taken into account, but a rule of the kind suggested by my hon. Friend would unnecessarily restrict the field of choice.

Does my right hon. Friend think that a full-time chairman of a nationalised board has the time or should have the time to act as the chairman of another very important public institution? Is the amount of ability available in the country so thin on the ground that we have to have recourse to this kind of appointment? Would it not be better to spread the opportunity for public service rather wider than we do now?

I am not quite sure what particular case my hon. Friend has in mind.

Lord Robens.

My hon. Friend has confirmed what I thought. I think we are well aware that in very many cases busy full-time persons, be they chairmen of public corporations or private firms, or otherwise engaged, do very often provide the best chairmen on a part-time basis. I do not think we should have any rule, but obviously in making an appointment one should see whether there is adequate time for doing the job.

Does the Prime Minister recognise that there would be no limitation of choice as to suitably qualified people if he conducted an overhaul of the totally deranged state of the remuneration paid to heads of nationalised boards which are now quite removed from reality in the times in which we live?

This raises an entirely different question and does not affect in any way the Chairman of the Coal Board as being chairman of a great teaching hospital. It has nothing to do with salary at all.

asked the Prime Minister if, in view of recent scientific developments, he will transfer responsibility for the biological warfare research unit from the Ministry of Defence to the Ministry of Health.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the Answer I gave on 18th July to a similar Question by my hon. Friend the Member for West Lothian (Mr. Dalyell).—[Vol. 768, c. 1660–1.]

Since the ostensible purpose of this institution is preventive against warfare conducted by other people, would it not be more appropriate for it to be transferred to the Ministry of Health which has, among its responsibilities, public health considerations of all kinds?

I have answered a great number of questions on this. I have said that the matter is continuously under review. I do not rule out a decision to change it at the appropriate time, but no such decision has been taken yet.

If this ever did come about, would the right hon. Gentleman consider the claims of one of the research councils in preference to one of the executive Ministries?

Yes, Sir. I think that it would certainly be the case that, if there were to be a change it would be to the Medical Research Council rather than the executive Department. But I do not want to tie myself in any way at the moment. No such decision has been taken.

As the Prime Minister has said that he will keep the matter under review, can he give an assurance that before any change is made he will at least give an opportunity for a Minister to appear before the Select Committee on Science and Technology to discuss the matter, because we are discussing this research establishment among others?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I will certainly consider that suggestion and discuss the matter with my right hon. Friends concerned. I would not want the House to get the idea that any change was imminent. I just said that we keep the matter under review and there could be a change one day.

asked the Prime Minister if he will take action to coordinate the collection and analysis of information from the appropriate Ministries of the national and particular industrial costs of disputes as well as a study of the costs arising from lost exports.

My hon. Friend will know the difficulties of attributing the costs of individual disputes, but in each case the best possible estimate is made.

As the estimates of the cost of industrial disputes last year range from about £10 million to £35 million, does not my right hon. Friend agree that there might be some merit in more clearly defined criteria so that both management and trade unions could see the more practical sense, importance and value of good industrial relations?

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend's approach, though he will be aware of the great difficulties of getting any really accurate measure. I do not think that anyone on either side, for example, in the docks strikes last year was in any sense unaware of the very grave damage that was brought about by those dock strikes, damage perhaps going far beyond what could have been calculated on a purely statistical estimation.

asked the Prime Minister if he will now nominate a Cabinet Minister as Second Secretary of State.

No, Sir.

As the first Secretary of State is having such great difficulty in raising the level of employment, should she not be reinforced by a Second Secretary of State dealing exclusively with unemployment?