asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what progress has been made with clearing windblown timber following the storm in January, 1968; and if he will make a statement.

By the end of September about 10 million hoppus feet of the timber had been cleared and delivered to consumers. Another three million hoppus feet had been cut and were being processed. Altogether this represents nearly one third of the total quantity blown down.

As there are still 17,000 acres to clear, at this rate of progress will the operation be completed before deterioration sets in in 12 months' time?

I should not like to give a date when this operation will be completed. Certainly the Forestry Commission is doing all that it can to make up for shortage of skilled labour by trying to persuade people from the Forestry Commission to take a temporary transfer to the areas most critically affected.

How much money has been paid to Scottish landlords as a result of these compensation proposals, and how can this be reconciled with a demand from the Opposition for a reduction in public expenditure?

Without notice I could not give a precise figure. I think that my hon. Friend is referring to the transport allowance which is provided to try to get the timber removed before it deteriorates.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has completed his review of the rating of agricultural buildings; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend is continuing his examination of this matter, but he is not yet in a position to make any statement.

Cannot the Government really treat the matter more urgently, because there is grave concern in the industry? It has been under consideration now for many months. Is the hon. Gentleman aware not only of the gross anomalies that are arising, but of the cost burden put on the industry at a time when the Government are asking it to replace imports?

The Government are well aware of the urgency of the matter, but the hon. Gentleman will understand that it is a very complex question. We are aware of the anomalies and difficulties facing the industry and in our discussions with the National Farmers' Union of Scotland we will explore them.

Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that the decisions being taken now are raising very serious anomalies and causing widespread apprehension in Scotland, and that the derating of agriculture requires clear definition and clarification?

I recognise the need for clear definition and clarification. But the hon. Gentleman will realise that this is a very complex problem. We are giving it very urgent consideration, but it involves a whole number of complicated aspects, not only within agriculture. These require the right kind of decision rather than a hurried decision. We are treating the matter urgently.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he proposes to classify as a trunk route the A94 Perth to Stonehaven road.

I have nothing to add to my reply of 22nd May to my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen, South (Mr. Dewar).—[Vol. 765, c. 82.]

Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that at that time he said he would be in a position to take a decision in the summer of this year? Why is there this delay? Does not the hon. Gentleman realise that this route is vital, not only to the areas around it, but to the development of the North-East? Will he give this a much greater priority than he has done so far?

I think the hon. Gentleman is under a misapprehension. He may recall that on 22nd May I said that the decision would be taken at the end of the complete Tayside study, and that will not be ready until toward the end of next year. It is important that we should get this right.

Does not my hon. Friend realise that that would mean that no real action could be taken on this vital route until well into the late 'seventies, and that this is a very unsatisfactory situation, which is leading to great frustration in the North-East?

I must correct my hon. Friend. Approved schemes for improving the A94 are eligible for 75 per cent, direct grant aid. The decision on improvements lies with the local highway authorities. Later we can decide whether it should be a trunk road.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when the Report of the Royal Commission on Local Government will be published.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects to receive the report of the Royal Commission on Local Government.

I understand that the Royal Commission now expects to complete its report early next year. Publication may take a few weeks thereafter.

Will the report be presented to the right hon. Gentleman, or to the Paymaster-General, who has now taken over his responsibility for devolution?

I think the hon. Gentleman will appreciate that the report will be presented in the usual way to the Minister responsible, and that is the Secretary of State. May I take this opportunity of correcting what may have been a misapprehension. Publication of the report is not a matter for the Secretary of State, but for the Commission itself.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what progress has been achieved towards meeting the employment targets set in paragraph 1 of Command Paper No. 2864, The Scottish Economy; and if he will make a statement.

Significant progress has been achieved—particularly in higher levels of investment, industrial building and new jobs and relatively lower unemployment and a reduction in net emigration to England.

Is the Minister aware that, contrary to the theme of his Answer just now, although the White Paper contemplated an increase in jobs of between 50,000 and 60,000 by 1970, the number of jobs in Scotland has fallen by 32,500? Is not the right hon. Gentleman thoroughly ashamed of this record?

No, Sir, not at all. The hon. Gentleman should appreciate that, if one starts taking interim years, whether in the previous four years in which he is making his comparison, one gets different figures. We have every reason to be satisfied with the large number of new jobs coming in, and with the way in which Scotland has stood up in the present economic atmosphere, which shows a strengthening of the pattern of Scottish industry.

Does the right hon. Gentleman mean by that—I think everybody appreciates the difficulties of interim years—that he still expects to reach his target by 1970?

I think what I have said is that our target should remain. This is a considerable improvement. Whether we shall reach it as quickly as that depends on how quickly we put right the whole general economic situation in Britain.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will instruct the Scottish Development Department to carry out a survey into the reasons for the decline in the number of persons in employment in Scotland since 1964.

The causes of the decline in male employment, which started long before 1964, were fully analysed in the White Paper on the Scottish Economy. The Government's wide-ranging measures for dealing with the problem are now taking effect.

The right hon. Gentleman will recall that during those last three years of Tory—

Order. The hon. Member must put his question in question form.

Will the right hon. Gentleman recall that during the last three years of the Tory Government when he was driving industry away from Scotland with his cries of woe the number of persons in employment in Scotland increased by 16,000? Over the corresponding period since then the number has dropped by 13,000. Is it not about time the right hon. Gentleman changed his job?

I think it is time the hon. Gentleman changed his books of reference, or looked more closely into them. He will find that it depends on which year he takes. If he took 1963, he would get a different result. We must not judge these things too quickly. The result of the actions that we took in 1965, 1966, and 1967 in relation to the greatly increased drive for new industry will prove by 1970 that the figures suggested by the hon. Gentleman are far too gloomy.

The right hon. Gentleman is asking the House to be too naive about this. We all want to get more jobs. Whatever books of reference we take, we see that there has been a considerable drop in the number of jobs. I do not think he can ask the House—

Question.

How can the right hon. Gentleman justify his statement to the House that his policies are being effective, in view of the drop in the number of jobs?

The right hon. Gentleman should bear in mind that since we became the Government there has been a doubling of effort in new factory building in Scotland, and a considerable improvement in relation to male jobs. What we are up against is a considerable run-down in agriculture, of men leaving agriculture, and leaving the traditional industry of mining and other heavy industries.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will obtain reports from chief constables as to how many shotgun licences have been issued by the police in Scotland since the introduction of the new regulations.

I would refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply given on 16th October to the hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward M. Taylor)—[Vol. 770, c. 142.]

May I express the hope that the figures given in the answer showing the number of shotgun certificates issued will convince the hon. Gentleman and his party propagandists that shooting is not a sport that is confined to a handful of opulent aristocrats?

I think the hon. Gentleman is referring to members of the party opposite in that respect. Of course we recognise that. This is why there has been a generous acceptance of most of the applications made. I recognise the ideological difference between a practising farmer and a member of the aristocratic class which the hon. Gentleman knows so well.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he will introduce higher improvement grants for modernising old houses to take account of increased building costs since the last occasion on which the maximum grant payable was fixed.

Proposals for higher maximum granted were published in July in our White Paper, The Older Houses in Scotland: A Plan for Action. The legislation implementing these proposals will be introduced as soon as possible.

Does the Minister think that the increased grant will be sufficient to encourage the modernisation of these houses, which we all agree was far too slow in the past? This shows that even the initial grants were too low. Therefore, any increases must be higher relatively than they were originally if we are to achieve what we want.

I hope so. I am pleased with the self-critical note which the hon. Gentleman introduced in respect of his Government's performance in previous years.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received from the Scottish Economic Planning Council concerning the future of Sanquhar and Kirkconnel; and what reply he has sent.

Advice given by the Council is confidential, but I can confirm that it has considered the future of the area, which is of course included in the development study of the South-West which was requested by the Consultative Group.

Will the right hon. Gentleman accept that I appreciate the efforts of the Board of Trade and the Secretary of State? Can he assure me that all the stops will be pulled out to complete negotiations with those firms at present interested in the area?

In so far as I have influence in this matter, and it is my concern, the hon. Gentleman can take that assurance for granted. Since its designation as a special development area there has been a considerable stimulation of interest in it, and I hope that we shall get some results in the not too distant future.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will enter into consultations with the General Teaching Council to ensure that teachers of Scottish origin are not in future required to take the English equivalent of a Scottish qualification which they already possess in order to qualify to teach in Scotland.

No, Sir.

Does the hon. Gentleman recall that in a case to which I drew his attention a constituent of mine was told that in order to qualify to teach in Scotland she would have to take an English A-level in a subject for which she already held a Scottish Higher? What conceivable purpose can be served by this sort of provision which has driven the girl to teach in England instead of in Scotland?

Entry qualifications for teaching in Scotland are different from those in England. This is a long-standing situation. The General Teaching Council is aware of it, and I have explained the particular case to the hon. Gentleman at great length on more than one occasion.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will now appoint a Chairman of the Scottish Economic Planning Council.

I already have.

As the right hon. Gentleman has himself occupied this position since the formation of the Council, is it not time that he stopped giving himself advice and appointed somebody else so that he can have more time for the many jobs which the Secretary of State ought to be doing?

I assure the hon. Gentleman that his opinion is not shared by members of the Council who welcome my presence as Chairman in that they can advise me directly. I assure the hon. Gentleman that other Economic Planning Councils throughout the country would welcome a Cabinet Minister as their chairman.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many of the storm-damaged houses in Glasgow have now been repaired; how many still remain to be repaired; and how long he estimates it will take to complete the repair work.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland why, in view of the good summer season for outdoor building and repairs, little progress has been made in Glasgow with house repairs to remedy the effects of the storm of January 1968.

Of the 29,000 roofs which were damaged, 16,500 have had full repairs, and 8,500 roofs of council houses have had repairs fully adequate for the winter. Some 4,000 tenement roofs have had only temporary repairs, and Glasgow Corporation is doing all it can to ensure that these are dealt with as quickly as possible, although it cannot assess how long the work will take.

Is it not shocking that nine months after the hurricane this vast amount of repair should still require to be done? What has happened to the hon. Gentleman's May forecast that all houses would be wind- and waterproof by the end of September and the further forecast which he made at the end of September that they would all be waterproof by the beginning of the New Year? When will they be wind- and waterproof? Will he cut the cackle, and get on with the job?

Fortunately, the hon. Gentleman and I are not responsible for repairing roofs. It is a very difficult task, one calling for skilled men, of whom 11—two only recently—have lost their lives. It is, therefore, no laughing matter. The dilapidation of many of the storm-damaged roofs has been such that repairing only the storm damage was just not good enough. We are doing our best to keep those houses wind- and watertight until we can carry out the permanent repairs, when the city of Glasgow will be better roofed than it has been for 50 years.

Does the Minister realise the concern his statement will occasion in Glasgow? How many of these 4,000 roofs are covered by tarpaulins? Will he resume his efforts to persuade employers of private building labour to put all their spare workers into the Corporation pool to work on this before the winter rains start?

The hon. Gentleman will be able to learn the numbers if he asks that question at the headquarters in Glas- gow. The Government's contribution in this very difficult situation has been substantial. The available labour force for which the original target was 1,000, is now well over 1,500.

Is the Minister of State aware that I was in Glasgow yesterday studying this problem? Although I am prepared to agree with him that much has been done in the last month or two, yesterday the people at the storm damage centre told me that in their estimation over 100,000 people are still at risk from having water through their damaged doofs. Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied with this? Is he certain that nothing else can be done? If he is, I will have a chat with him afterwards.

I am aware that the right hon. Gentleman visited Glasgow yesterday. I shall be very happy to have a chat with him or, indeed, with any other Member, either later today or at any other time, to see if we have missed any points which could profitably be pursued. Last Friday the Lord Provost pointed out that the number of complaints about leaking roofs was substantially less than might have been expected before the storm occurred. The dilapidation of property in Glasgow has been going on for many years.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the problem was there before the storm and that the right hon. Member for Argyll (Mr. Noble) was too late in going to look at it?

About 700 of the 900 complaints which were made at the time of the last heavy rainfall in Glasgow concerned separate properties. The rest were duplicate complaints. Of that number more than half were being dealt with under the private factors' arrangements with small firms. We hope to be able to take that up later on when we proceed with the matter further.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what plans he has for reviewing the rent of controlled houses.

In the White Paper, The Older Houses in Scotland—A Plan for Action, my right hon. Friend announced proposals to extend the "fair rent" system to controlled houses which are improved with grant assistance, or which are already in good repair and have the basic amenities.

Does that mean that the Government now recognise that out of controlled rent it is impossible to maintain houses in a safe condition and that to this extent the storm damage last January has had one good effect?

Irrespective of the storm damage, it was our intention following the publication of the Cullingworth Report to produce the Bill which I hope that we shall produce next Session and to which the White Paper is a prelude. This Government, unlike the Tory Government, have accepted the need for this Bill.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what action has been taken to accelerate the development of the Scottish economy during the past quarter; and if he will make a statement.

The Government have adopted a wide range of measures to accelerate the development of the Scottish economy. Their success is now beginning to be reflected in more investment and more industrial building, and in comparatively lower levels of unemployment and migration to England.

Is the Secretary of State aware that that reply is far from specific? Of all the things which could most help to accelerate the development of the Scottish economy, a reduction in the rate of taxation, particularly the Selective Employment Tax, is surely the most important. Could not the right hon. Gentleman intensify his efforts in this respect?

Hon. Gentlemen should make up their minds. One minute they are asking for more to be done, which means expenditure. The next they ask that taxation be reduced. The results of the public expenditure in Scotland can now be seen to be the greatest drive Scotland has ever had to modernise our roads and to build new factories, hospitals and schools.

To what extent is the development of the economy retarded by the shortage of skilled labour? To what extent is this being remedied by the increase in the training facilities available?

This is a relevant consideration. We may run into considerable difficulties arising from the absence of skilled labour. We have made considerable inroads into solving this problem by industrial training, by the retraining of people displaced from their jobs, and by grants for intraining in industry.

As the job losses in Scotland for the last three years have been much greater than the targets predicted by the Government in the White Paper—resulting in minus 7,000 jobs a year instead of plus 10,000—will not the right hon. Gentleman take this very seriously and consider further measures?

Yes. The new jobs coming in have acceded to our targets. We are considerably stepping up our efforts to attract new industry. The high level of industrial development certificate approvals in the last few years has been well maintained in this year. This year we have already allocated 14 advance factories, a problem which was worrying the House last year.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will now issue a report on the first half of the period covered by his White Paper on the Scottish Economy, Command Paper No. 2864, namely, the three years ended 31st December, 1967.

The quarterly reports on Scottish economic development already give regular information on economic progress, and statistical indicators are given in the Digest of Scottish Statistics, the latest edition of which is about to be published.

But since the White Paper was issued with a fanfare of publicity very shortly before the 1966 election, and since information now becoming available shows a massive gap between the targets and the results, is the Secretary of State not under an obligation now to make a special half-term report according to the principle recommended by the Minister of Technology?

No, I do not think there is any necessity for that, because our targets remain the same and I have already answered Questions about this. The actual figures of progress in relation to new factories, I.D.C.s and the rest, are all available to hon. Members if they want to pursue them.

Is not the Secretary of State aware that his complacency in this matter is alarming? What is the use of producing a plan if all its figures are not attained? As his colleague in England had to admit that their National Plan had to be withdrawn, why does he obstinately refuse to do the same about his own?

What I have said is that the aims in respect of improvements in the Scottish economy must remain the same. I have said in answer to Questions that it make take a little time longer to reach them, but that does not mean that we do not continue to make the effort.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the number of sessions per month given by each part-time orthopaedic surgeon in the West Fife and East Fife Hospitals Board of Management, respectively, and the average waiting time for patients requiring clinical examination.

Each of the two part-time orthopaedic surgeons in Fife gives nine sessions per week; one undertakes two sessions in West Fife and seven in East Fife, and the other six sessions in West Fife and three in East Fife. The average waiting time for patients requiring orthopædic examination is seven weeks in West Fife and five to six weeks in East Fife.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Is he aware that the nominal description "part-time consultant" gives such a consultant the opportunity to utilise the resources of the National Health Service for his private patients? Is my hon. Friend further aware that there is a strong impression in Dumfermline and Kirkcaldy that there is a certain amount of queue jumping for beds by these people who can afford to pay the fees charged by these consul- tants? What does my hon. Friend propose to do by way of investigating this apparent abuse of the National Health Service?

If my hon. Friend will give me any evidence to substantiate what he says in the second part of his supplementary question, I will examine it. Both part-time consultants are employed on a maximum part-time basis which is for nine sessions a week, as compared with 11 sessions for full-time consultants. This arrangement dates right back to 1948.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will seek powers to prevent the appointment of members of the Scottish judiciary to committees set up by political parties.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will seek powers to ensure that Scottish members of the judiciary do not engage in party political controversy.

I refer my hon. Friends to the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Rutherglen (Mr. Gregor Mackenzie) on 16th October.—[Vol. 770, c. 377.]

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the reply he gave last week was certainly not borne out by the rather disgraceful events at the beginning of August when it was shown quite clearly that the Scottish judiciary did not appear to be aware of the generally accepted convention of the constitution? Is my right hon. Friend aware that there has been much discussion since as to what arrangements exist to enable this to be enforced?

I think there is no need for any statutory powers to enforce this. I think it is now generally recognised, and the behaviour on the whole of Scottish judiciary bears this out. In the particular instance to which my right hon. Friend referred there has been a satisfactory conclusion with the withdrawal of the acceptance of the gentleman concerned.

Will my right hon. Friend not consider the setting up of some commission to investigate appointment to the judiciary in Scotland, which is in the nature of a large-scale racket?

No, I do not think so. I think the procedure for appointing judges in Scotland is well established and I am not aware that that has led in practice to any large-scale racket.

Will the Secretary of State reconsider his answer to the last question, as it is not so much a racket that we are concerned about but the connection between party political appointments to the bench which is worrying the Scottish public? That is the point.

I am aware that the public accept the judiciary to be impartial and independent and I am satisfied that the judiciary accept this.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects to reach a decision on the request of Glasgow Corporation for permission to develop the vacant ground at the southwest end of the main runway in the interests of the safe operation of civil aircraft using Abbotsinch Airport.

This will depend on the results of further discussions with Glasgow Corporation for which my right hon. Friend is now asking.

Will my hon. Friend proceed hastily with these discussions? Is he aware that this vacant ground is in the flight path of aircraft using Abbotsinch Airport, which means that it is used by birds and birds are always a danger to civil aircraft?

Not all birds, but in this context that is a fair point to make. On the contention that the application should be regarded as having no bearing on any possible future proposal to extend the runway, but rather because it is related to what my hon. Friend has said and to some other matters, the Secretary of State is asking for further information before he can adjudicate on the matter.

Would the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that civil aircraft are not using Abbotsinch at all at the moment? Will he do his best to get them operating there again?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the annual cost to the Government of compensating the electricity boards and the Scottish Gas Board for using coal-fired instead of oil-fired stations; and for how long he plans to continue these payments.

Payments to the Scottish electricity boards between September, 1967, and July, 1968, amounted to £1,031,671. Amounts will vary from year to year according to electricity load requirements, fuel prices and other factors. Under the Coal Industry Act, 1967, payments may be made until 1st April 1971, but the need for them is kept under review.

Will my hon. Friend consider giving some form of compensation to other people who lose because of this as he is prepared in this case to compensate electricity and gas boards? Will he consider compensation to people such as river pilots and the harbour board, which has lost £92,000 in revenue in the last year because of the reduction in use of our ports?

I shall consider those points. I shall be grateful if my hon. Friend will write to me about some of the more detailed aspects of his supplementary question.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he hopes to publish the results of his consideration of the Hunter Report on Salmon and Trout Fishing.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will now make a statement on the Hunter Report, outlining his proposals for implementing the Report's recommendations.

My right hon. Friend's consideration of this Report, and of the representations which he has received on it, is not complete and he cannot yet say when he will be able to make known his proposals.

What is to be done to provide more fishing for those with modest incomes?

That is precisely the problem we are trying to answer.

Could not the Govment start on the less controversial part of the Report, which could assist greatly the tourist industry, without prejudice to later decisions on the important matters affecting the salmon-netting industry, as we proposed in the debate on this subject over a year ago?

We did consider that and decided against it. The Report is a unity and should be seen as a unity. I hope that our proposals, when they come forward, will be dealt with as a unity. I understand that hon. Members opposite frequently try to make a differentiation between salmon and trout fishing and other fishing. The important problem is to make sure that we open up the rivers of Scotland for the people of Scotland.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will take steps to abolish tolls on the Forth Road Bridge; or if he will introduce legislation to charge tolls on each new motorway.

Tolls are charged on all new major river crossings in Great Britain which provide exceptional savings to their users, and we could not make an exception of the Forth Bridge. Charging tolls on all new motorways is impracticable, because of the cost of manning numerous access points and the danger of diverting traffic on to roads already overcrowded.

What then is the difference between financing a motorway over water and financing a motorway over land?

Just exactly what I have explained.

Where are these other waterways in Britain which receive the same sort of treatment as that the Minister mentioned?

The Mersey Tunnel, the Dartford Tunnel, the Tyne Tunnel, the Severn Bridge and the Tamar Bridge.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps he is taking to ensure that police recruitment is directed towards the areas of greatest need.

Forces whose total strength is near their authorised establishment have been asked to limit recruitment to the replacement of officers leaving the force and, where they cannot accept recruits, to advise applicants to seek appointment in forces seriously under strength. Such forces can continue to recruit without restriction.

Would my hon. Friend not agree that it would help recruitment if some elements, which are often found on the Opposition benches, ceased to over-emphasise almost to distortion the difficulties in some areas?

I believe my hon. Friend is referring to the recent controversy involving Glasgow. I have no doubt that some of the irresponsible statements made in that situation acted as a great disincentive to recruiting.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will give the recent recruitment figures for each Scottish police authority, and distinguish in those figures between recruits joining the police force for the first time and trained policemen transferring from one force to another.

As the Answer contains a number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Am I right in thinking that there are very great differences in the success of recruitment in different areas? Will my hon. Friend resist any suggestion that a policy should be followed designed to favour certain bad areas at the expense of neighbouring forces by attracting to those areas trained policemen?

If my hon. Friend is referring to discussions at present going on in relation to under-manning allowances, it would be preferable if I did not comment on that at present. If he feels that because of other facts there could be a move into certain areas of difficulty, I can assure him about his area. In the nine months up to September, 1968, Lanarkshire had 141 recruits compared with 61 in the same period for 1967.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what progress has been made in recruiting civilians to release police officers for duties more appropriate to their training; and what has been the effect on the total manpower available to the police since 1964.

There have been substantial increases in the number of traffic wardens and other civilians employed on clerical and technical duties and these have made a significant contribution to the strengths of police forces in Scotland. At 31st December, 1964, the total manpower available to the police numbered 10,959, of whom 933 were civilians, and at 31st December, 1967, 11,722, of whom 1,475 were civilians.

I congratulate my hon. Friend on the success of the policy of recruiting such additional workers. I ask that in future it is always clearly shown how each police force stands in respect of both those categories of officers.

It is useful to keep these points in mind. I thank my right hon. Friend for his comment. We have improved the figures of manpower available to the police in Scotland by almost 1,000 since 1964.

Does not the Minister feel that there is scope for increasing the recruitment of policewomen?

I am sorry. I did not quite hear. Did the hon. Gentleman ask if we are keen to recruit policewomen? The answer is, of course, "Yes".

I asked if there was scope for increasing their recruitment.

I think that there is, subject to the general situation prevailing. Policewomen have played a very important rôle over the past few years. I hope that it will be a continuing and perhaps developing rôle.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will introduce legislation to make statutory registration compulsory for all chiropodists in Scotland.

My right hon. Friend has no proposals for legislation, but I understand the matter is under discussion in the profession.

Is my hon. Friend aware that anyone can set up as a chiropodist without any training, experience or qualifications of any kind? Does not he consider that this matter requires very urgent attention?

There is already statutory provision for registration under the Professions Supplementary to Medicine Act, 1960. But the matter my hon. Friend now raises is much wider, and this is a very complicated matter.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will make a statement on the development of trade with South Africa.

In the first eight months of this year, exports were £177 million and imports were £192 million. Exports were a little down compared with 1967 but total South African imports have been falling and the indications are that we have been maintaining our position in this market.

Is South Africa still our second or third best overseas customer? Does the Minister agree that if Her Majesty's Government implemented the spirit of the Simonstown Agreement and supplied arms for South Africa to enable her to fulfil her obligations the picture would be even better?

South Africa continues to be one of our most important markets. We have no evidence that business has been lost, except for one specific case, because of our policy regarding arms. As I said in my Answer, the present indications are that this year we are retaining our position in the market.

What negotiations have the Government had with South Africa over the export of black cricketers?

Has the Minister's attention been drawn to the reports published this morning on the London Chamber of Commerce mission's return to this country after close investigation of South African trade, which showed that for the first time for many years we now have an adverse balance with South Africa, and that this is largely due to the dissatisfaction of the South Africans and the refusal of the present Government here to allow defence equipment to be exported?

Special factors have increased imports from South Africa this year, such as the unusually large imports of maize, fruit and vegetables, ore and metal scrap. Our evidence is that we are maintaining our share of the South African market, and I think that the figures will show an increase in our exports to South Africa this year. Obviously, we in this country wish to develop the best possible export situation in South Africa consistent with our policy on the export of arms.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will make a statement on the proceedings of the United Nations Trade and Development Board meeting held at Geneva in September.

This session of the Board was largely devoted to examining the methods of work of the Conference, the Board itself and its principal Committees. The main conclusions were that the sessions of the Conference should in future be shorter and that they should be concentrated on issues of fundamental importance, and that the Board should normally meet once instead of twice a year. The Board also considered the role of U.N.C.T.A.D. in the preparations for the Second United Nations Development Decade.

Does the Minister accept that the Board's decisions must be regarded as welcome, particularly the decision that the Board should meet only once a year since the meetings appear to occupy a great deal of time? Could he say something about the Board's decision on the recommendation that there should be further international developments in shipping? Does not he feel that this is something on which this country, as a major shipping nation, could press id order to avoid flag discrimination and what appears to be an increasing subsidisation of shipping industries by all major maritime nations?

I entirely agree with the hon. Gentleman that it is important that U.N.C.T.A.D., like other international organisations, should from time to time study the manner in which it conducts its work. We welcome the Board's decisions about its future meetings. The question of shipping is being considered. It is a matter of major importance to this country, and we are taking a part in the discussions currently going on.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what representations he has received from local authorities and organisations regarding the conversion of Lindholme Royal Air Force Station to civilian use, and the creation of a new South-Yorkshire airport in the Goole-Thorne area; what reply he has sent; and what action he proposes to take.

I have received no representations about the conversion of Lindholme to civil use. I understand that proposals for an airport in the Goole/Thorne area have been forwarded to the Commission on the Third London Airport. The Commission will no doubt take account of them.

In view of the necessity for improving transport to South Yorkshire, will the Board of Trade give every encouragement to the establishment of a civil airport in this area?

I am entirely in favour of every measure which can reasonably be taken to provide adequate air facilities in South Yorkshire and elsewhere. In so far as we can, we shall certainly help, although I think that the immediate proposals are concerned with a period still some distance away.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that passengers in British civil aircraft in transit through Kennedy Airport, New York, to onward destinations in the same aircraft are subjected to customs, immigration and health procedures; and whether, in view of the fact that this is contrary to normal international practice, he will ask the United States authorities to desist from this practice.

Yes. The United States authorities have notified the International Civil Aviation Organisation, as they are entitled to do under the Convention, of a difference between their own procedures and those prescribed as a standard in Annex 9 of the Convention. There is no discrimination against British aircraft or passengers and it would not be appropriate for me to intervene.

Can the Minister say what useful purpose is served by making transit passengers, whose baggage is safely on their aircraft, go through customs and through immigration procedures in a country into which they do not want to immigrate?

That is not really the point. This is a matter of domestic United States law. We may take the view that it creates inconvenience, but as long as the domestic law of the United States takes this form we have no alternative but to conform.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will give details of the independent advisory committee on whose recommendations are based the terms and conditions governing any loan issued under the experimental hotel loans scheme.

The Committee consists at present of six members with experience related to tourism and the hotel trade. With permission, I will circulate details in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will make a statement of the progress of the hotel loans scheme, giving the number of applications so far received and the terms and conditions on which loans are to be issued.

A total of 139 applications for loans was received before the Scheme was closed for new applications on 31st March of this year. Loans are offered on the terms and conditions recommended by the independent Hotel Loans Advisory Committee as appropriate to each case.

Is it not clear from study of the progress of the scheme that it is not properly geared to the needs of the hotel industry generally, and that there is quite unnecessary delay in the payment of the loans?

There have been criticisms, but we have been genuinely trying to produce a scheme that meets the industry's needs, which we very fully recognise. The applications have been processed as fast as possible. I hope very much, and I am sure that it is its intention, that the Committee will go ahead and complete its job.

Will the Minister do something to simplify the questionnaire which people receive when making application for the loans? A great number of the questions asked in it would never be asked in the private sector if a person were applying for a similar loan from a bank. Cannot the whole procedure be simplified and made more straightforward?

I will look at the hon. Gentleman's point, because in principle it is very fair. But the closing date for the scheme has been reached, and perhaps we should bear his point in mind in any future proposals we may bring forward.

asked the President of the Board of Trade in what respects the proposed merger of the firms engaged in trawler fishing differs from the plan recently rejected by the Monopolies Commission; and whether he will make a statement.

Discussions are continuing between the Industrial Reorganisation Corporation and firms in the industry but we have not yet had firm proposals. It would be premature to make a comparison with the merger considered by the Monopolies Commission.

Would my hon. Friend not agree that in view of the difficulties that the fishing industry is going through and has been going through for a number of years, the need for modernisation of the fishing fleet, the improvement of the: safety precautions both for the ships and for the men at sea and the constant subsidisation of the industry, the best solution would be to take it into public ownership?

I agree entirely with my hon. Friend about the problems that the fishing industry has faced, and it is for this reason that we welcome the investigation that the Industrial Reorganisation Corporation is now making. It would, of course, be premature for me to comment on the proposals that it will bring forward.

Does it not look as if the Industrial Reorganisation Corporation and the Monopolies Commission are forming entirely contradictory attitudes on a single problem? What are the Government going to do about it?

The right hon. Gentleman is a little premature in saying "forming contradictory attitudes". The Industrial Reorganisaiton Corporation has not come to any conclusions. He should wait before criticising.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will take steps to arrange for the primary examinations of prepackaged commodities under the Weights and Measures Act, 1963, and other legislation to be undertaken at the point of production or importation.

A substantial amount of testing of prepacked commodities under the Weights and Measures Act, 1963 is already carried out at the point of production or importation.

Will my hon. Friend press it further in connection with the work of Her Majesty's inspectors as a substantial part of retail trade in food is pre-packed and it is very desirable that the primary consideration and inspection should be at the point of production, thus minimising the work of the inspectors in other areas so that they can concentrate on other aspects of consumer goods?

As I replied to my hon. Friend, testing goes on at the point of production. Nevertheless, inspectors already have to test weighing and measuring equipment at retail premises, and it is, therefore, economic and convenient for them to test pre-packed goods at the same time.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will introduce legislation to enable him to improve the standards of cleanliness in the terminal buildings at all airports under the control of the Airports Authority and to introduce efficient catering services.

I do not necessarily accept the implied criticism of the present position but in this case this is not an appropriate subject for legislation. It is a matter of day-to-day management.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that following some recent comments of mine I have received overwhelming support for my contention, and that by comparison with Kennedy and other international airports conditions at Heathrow are a disgrace? Will he reconsider his Answer?

In the first place, although the hon. Gentleman has made very clear his own particular experience, and although he may have found some support, there are others who would take a different view and feel that those who work at London Airport in difficult conditions do a first-rate job. On the second point, I think it right that we should recognise those matters which are appropriate to this House, involving legislation, and those which are appropriate to management. For this reason, I think that the management should be left to carry on with its job.

Would my hon. Friend recommend all airports to emulate the very high standards in these respects of the municipally owned and controlled Manchester Airport?

I am aware of the very high standard at Manchester and elsewhere. Perhaps I should say that if hon. Members have constructive suggestions about how matters might be improved and where in any way they fall short, I am sure that the British Airports Authority and municipal authorities would be only too happy to receive them.

While I appreciate that the British Airports Authority has been in existence for only a comparatively short time, is the hon. Gentleman nevertheless not aware that many people think that London Airport is the worst shop window in London? Surely it goes back to the original design and trying to situate everything in the centre of the airport. Will he institute an inquiry to improve the ghastly state of affairs whereby even today people have to travel to and from aircraft in out-of-date charabancs with passageways less than a foot wide?

I agree that in a number of respects the design of London Airport falls short, but the supplementary question goes wide of the Question about cleanliness.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I will raise the subject on the Adjournment.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what new industries have been developed in the Merseyside development district since October, 1964; how many new jobs have been created; and what plans there are for the future.

Between October, 1964, and September, 1968, 756 I.D.C.s were approved for the Merseyside Development Area, including Skelmersdale and Winsford. It is estimated that these projects should eventually provide nearly 50,000 new jobs, of which nearly half will be for men.

rose—

The hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Mr. Heffer) did not ask a supplementary question. Mr. Heffer, Question No. 57.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Is it a rule of the House that if there is no supplementary question from the originator of the Question there may be no supplementary question from any other hon. Member?

Yes, it is the rule. Mr. Heffer.

asked the President of the Board of Trade what publicly-owned interests have been created in the Merseyside development district since October, 1964; how many workers they employ; and what plans he has for the future.

About 3,700 Civil Service jobs have been created on Merseyside by the establishment of the National Giro and a Board of Trade Investment Grants Office, and by the dispersal of work of the Inland Revenue and the Ministry of Public Building and Works. A further 2,500 to 3,000 Civil Service jobs will be added over the next three years or so, as a result of dispersal and reorganisation.

Would my hon. Friend agree that, while this is very welcome, it is only playing around with the problem of newly-developed Government-sponsored industries on Merseyside? Will the Government look again at the question of developing such industries on Merseyside because it is essential that something should be done within the next year or so in addition to those created by private industry?