asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many local authorities have had to increase their water rate as a result of the contributions levied by the regional water authorities.

Of those whose decisions have so far been reported, 121 rating authorities are levying higher domestic water rates this year than last, and 57 the same or lower rates.

Does the Minister of State realise that, as a result of regionalisation, some local authorities, particularly in my area, had to increase their water rate by as much as 400 per cent.? Is he aware that there is strong feeling among these burghs that some of his assurances during the passage of the Bill about satisfactory transitional arrangements have not been honoured?

If that is so, it is because the authorities have consented to transitional arrangements, since these agreements were made freely among themselves and confirmed by the Secretary of State. If the hon. Member wants to make a fair comparison once we have all the returns, he should examine the preceding years. Of the 121 authorities which have increased their water rate against last year, 40 deliberately reduced their rate the year before. That is a very significant point.

Will the hon. Gentleman not recognise that what has happened in many burghs fully justifies our warnings to the Government during the passage of the Water (Scotland) Bill? Does he not now regret that he did not accept an Amendment of ours which would have introduced reasonable transitional arrangements and saved this trouble?

On the contrary. The hon. Member must recognise that the so-called reasonable arrangements which he and his hon. Friends proposed would have made the situation worse, not better.

In view of the injustice which appears to be done to some burghs like Stromness and Orkney, are the Government open to amending the terms of these amalgamations?

No, Sir, these amalgamations are now in being.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he will complete his review of the rating of agricultural building.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on his discussions with the Scottish National Farmers' Union regarding the industrial rating of intensive agricultural units.

My right hon. Friend has not yet concluded his consideration of this question.

How much longer will this be allowed to drag on? Does the hon. Gentleman not realise that, as each week passes, more anomalies and nonsenses are shown up? In all seriousness, cannot the Government take a grip on this and try to resolve the problem? There is great concern in the agricultural industry.

I am aware of the concern, but it is even more important that we get the right answers. Many problems are involved. As the hon. Member should know, we want, when we eventually decide, to get the right solution.

Would the hon. Member recall that, while he is trying to get the right answers, farmers—who are not receiving S.E.T. premiums, as non-manufacturing, or R.E.P., or industrial investment grants—are still being charged rates as if they occupied industrial premises? Would he realise that this is a grotesque anomaly to continue much longer?

The hon. Member should know that all the costs to which he refers are taken into adequate consideration at the Annual Price Review. Scottish farmers know under which Government they benefit; it is this one.

Can the hon. Gentleman tell us anything about the consultations which he is having with the Scottish National Farmers' Union? Is he aware of the statement made yesterday that their representations on British Standard Time were entirely brushed aside? Would he give an undertaking—

Order. We are discussing that rating of agricultural buildings.

With respect, Mr. Speaker, I was about to ask whether the hon. Gentleman would assure us that representations on this matter will not be equally brushed aside.

We have never brushed aside any discussions with, or points made by, the National Farmers' Union. We have considered them on their merits. We have been considering their representations and, if they wish to see me again, I will again listen to them on this question.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many uncertificated teachers are employed in Lanarkshire at the present time; and how many have been passed as suitable for conditional registration by the reference panels.

I understand that 355 teachers in the service of the Lanarkshire authority are ineligible for registration. None of the temporary appointments held by these teachers has so far been considered by the reference panel. I should add that the reference panel is not concerned with conditional registration.

As the enforcement of the registration procedure is likely to cause a considerable crisis in education in Lanarkshire, is the Secretary of State prepared to give any additional help to that county to get suitably qualified teachers?

That is an entirely different question. The hon. Member knows of the special payments of £100 per year which came into operation several months ago and from which Lanarkshire benefits considerably—proportionately more than does any other authority in Scotland.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many cases of brucellosis infection in humans have been reported in the last year.

Brucellosis is not a notifiable disease and comprehensive figures of its incidence among humans are not available. What can be said is that 73 persons in whom brucellosis had been diagnosed were discharged from Scottish hospitals during 1967, and that 188 cases giving presumptive evidence of the disease were diagnosed by Scottish laboratories in the last eleven months of that year.

Why can this miserable disease not be made notifiable so that there is some chance of detecting the source of the infection?

One of the difficulties about notification is the considerable time which elapses between infection and diagnosis. It is therefore doubtful whether compulsory notification would enable us to bring about what both the hon. Member and I would like to bring about, the eradication of the disease.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will arrange for the forthcoming Commission on the Constitution to consider the constitutional position of Scotland as a matter of urgency and to publish its recommendations dealing with Scotland in advance of those dealing with other nations and regions.

It will be primarily for the Commission itself to decide on its method of work, but I have no doubt that it will consider the various questions within it; terms of reference as quickly as possible.

May I point out to the Secretary of State—

No.

Order. The hon. Member must ask a question.

Is the Secretary of State aware that his reply leaves us in darkness as total as that produced by British Standard Time? May I ask him three specific questions? First, when will the Commission begin its deliberation; secondly, when will it be charged to produce a report; and thirdly, how will the subcommission of Scottish experts be chosen?

These are matters which will have to be looked at. If I may reflect on the hon. Gentleman's reference about darkness and British Standard Time, I would point out that a few hours changes the darkness but I doubt whether a week, a month or a year would change the hon. Member's political gloom.

Will my right hon. Friend draw to the Commission's attention the fact that we have already had a Commission on this topic? Will he ask them to look at the views of that Commission before filing their proceedings?

I do not doubt that the Commission to be set up will look at the findings of the previous Commission, but it would be wrong to suggest that they are covering exactly the same ground because this Commission will be looking at the matter from the point of view of the whole United Kingdom.

Does the Secretary of State accept as a good beginning point for this Commission the finishing point of the last Commission—namely, that Scotland is a nation? Is he aware that this House and the United Nations Charter recognise the rights of a nation to self-determination? In the event of the Commission finding against self-government for the next election, will the Secretary of State give an undertaking that he will accept that the verdict of the ballot boxes can overrule that finding?

The hon. Lady has spent a long time proving a point which does not require to be proved—that Scotland is a nation. Scotland as a nation is in a very fruitful partnership, and from my point of view any indication of a change in that will have to be looked at very carefully indeed.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the latest position reached in relation to implementation of the White Paper on the Scottish Economy published in January, 1966.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will publish a White Paper setting out the progress that has been made towards meeting the employment targets published in The Scottish Economy, Command Paper No. 2864.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will now make an interim progress report on the implementation of the 1966 White Paper on the Scottish Economy.

I refer hon. Gentlemen to my replies to the hon. Members for Moray and Nairn (Mr. Gordon Campbell) and Perth and East Perthshire (Mr. MacArthur) on 23rd October.—[Vol. 770, c. 1268–9, 1260.]

Will the Secretary of State now be honest with Scotland and admit, as with the National Plan, that the assumptions have changed, that little growth has taken place and that the results so far, especially with jobs, are very different from the targets?

We hear all that every week. The hon. Member will not look facts in the face. If he would even read this morning's Press he would have seen the report of Sir Robert Maclean, the Chairman of the Scottish Industrial Estates Corporation, in which he points out that he has been letting factories at the rate of one a week over the last year. If he reads that, the hon. Member will appreciate that we have considerably changed the whole pattern and basis of Scottish industry.

The right hon. Gentleman will not recognise the fact which is staring him in the face—that employment in Scotland has dropped by about 30,000 people since the publication of the notorious Plan, compared with a forecast of an increase of 60,000 jobs by 1970. In the light of that, will he not leave this mood of total and unacceptable complacency and get on with the job of improving employment prospects in Scotland?

I assure the hon. Member that there is no complacency on this side of the House. The successful efforts which we have been making to get new industry in Scotland are an indication of that.

What steps is the right hon. Gentleman trying to take to bring back to Scotland some of the 168,000 net emigrants who have gone from Scotland during his period of office?

Do away with landlords.

I assure the hon. Member that if he looks at the most recently published figures for net emigration he will find that they are the best since about 1950. If the hon. Member had shown the same interest in this subject while his party was allowing this emigration to go on without doing anything about it,

I should feel better satisfied by his questions.

Will my right hon. Friend be very careful about the idea of bringing back all the Scottish emigrants, since about 20 million of them are said to be abroad? Is he aware that at this moment it is impossible, and for some time it has been impossible, to get skilled engineers to fill the jobs which are open in Scotland for them as well as for many other workers?

My right hon. Friend puts the situation into proper perspective. I thought for a moment that he was about to tell me that most of the emigrants went from the Buccleuch Estates.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what consultations he is having with representatives of the construction industry and others concerned on the proposed change to the metric system by the building industry.

Apart from the construction industry, the change involves the associated professions, the British Standards Institution, the National Building Agency, Government Departments and the clients of the industry, both public and private. Between these bodies there have been constant interchanges of view throughout the process, leading to the announcement in February, 1967, of the programme for the change, as well as in the subsequent working out of the programme, and my departments have taken a full part in these.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that the approach to this difficult change-over is being carried out in such a way as to minimise dislocation and expense to all concerned?

Yes. The hon. Member will appreciate that the impetus for this action came originally from the Federation of British Industries. We have outlined the programme. As for familarising industry with the change, conferences and discussions have taken place and these are being extended right down the line to ensure that everybody understands what is being done and to minimise the difficulties which, I appreciate, could arise.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a further statement on tolls on the Forth Road Bridge.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the latest position regarding his proposal to increase tolls on the Forth Road Bridge.

My right hon. Friend has given the Forth Road Bridge Joint Board notice of his intention to make an Order to increase the tolls and has specified the newspapers in which notice of the change proposed shall be published.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that that news will not be greeted with enthusiasm in Fife or anywhere else in Scotland? Despite the Report of the Accounts Committee, and in view of the fact that the Government are proposing to write off £243 million of the capital debts of London Transport in the new Bill, will not my right hon. Friend do the same with the capital debt on the bridge?

I agree that this statement will be received with disappointment. I am certain that if there are any objectors—and thy, Joint Board themselves may be objectors—and they ask for a local inquiry, then under the Forth Road Bridge Order (Confirmation) Act, 1958, we shall hold an inquiry, and objections can be lodged until 31st January, 1969.

My hon. Friend raised a wider issue in the second part of his question. I would point out that the Confirmation Act, 1958, lays down the basis of agreement between the parties concerned and the local authorities at that time, and that agreement has to be honoured.

Will the hon. Member confirm that his answer exposes the nonsense so often talked by his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State on this subject before the last election?

There is no relevance in that comment. Clearly the hon. Member has not read any of the pronouncements and only assumes the legend.

If an agreement has to be honoured which was agreed beforehand, why was it that his right hon. Friend was proposing to dishonour it?

There is no question of of that. The difficulty facing my right hon. Friend is that he has to uphold what was done by the right hon. Gentleman's predecessor and by the right hon. Gentleman.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that the Forth Road Bridge was built at the expense of a considerable amount of other road building which would have gone on at that time? If pressure is brought to bear now, will he ensure that there is no easing up at the expense of other road building now due in Scotland?

I much appreciate that. I only wish that hon. Members opposite would take the same balanced view. In defence of the Conservative Party, it is fair to say that the 1958 agreement did not spring from any compulsion on their part. It came from the accession of the local authorities concerned. One must be fair about this.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what plans he intends to initiate to rehabilitate older houses in both the private and public sectors; and how many houses he estimates will be so rehabilitated in the next 10 years.

My plans were outlined in the White Paper on The Older Houses in Scotland. published in July. The legislation to be introduced this session will aim to stimulate action both by private owners and by local authorities, but I cannot quantify its likely effects over the next 10 years.

We shall await with interest the legislation coming forward. Meanwhile, what was done in this matter in 1960–64?

The last Act purporting to deal with the matter, passed before the 1964 election, has proved a dismal failure in respect of its use by the local authorities. But I would not minimise the difficulties of the problem.

What has the right hon. Gentleman done about the recommendation in the Cullingworth Report that an inquiry should be instituted into the problem of older houses and slum houses in rural areas?

This is one of the aspects in which there was, over a period, more success in relation to the use of existing legislation because of the tied house factor. The legislative change was made in the early 1950s.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how much of the net saving in imports of food of £160 million to be achieved by 1972–73 he expects to be made in Scotland.

It is neither practicable nor useful to make separate estimates for any one part of the United Kingdom. Scotland can, however, make a particularly valuable contribution in respect of beef and other livestock products.

If the Minister of Agriculture can make these calculations, and since there is a better statistical office in the Department of Agriculture at St. Andrew's House than at the Ministry of Agriculture itself, why cannot the hon. Gentleman give guidance to Scotland? If he cannot, since Scotland produces the best food in the United Kingdom, will he not agree that we should at least contribute one-tenth of the programme?

I accept the hon. Gentleman's compliment to the efficiency of my Department and of St. Andrew's House, and agree with it. But we believe that it is wrong to break this up area by area and commodity by commodity. We have laid down the broad programme and pace of expansion. No doubt circumstances will alter particular requirements and I think that the hon. Gentleman knows this subject well enough to rest content with that.

While welcoming what my hon. Friend has to say about livestock, may I ask whether he has given consideration to the proposals of the N.E.D.C. and whether he challenges its assumptions about sheep farming which are particularly disappointing?

The N.E.D.C. Report is my nightly reading. I understand my hon. Friend's disappointment with the Report's comments about sheep. Two problems are involved, and both of them give concern. The one involves technical aspects and the other is the effort to increase demand for mutton and lamb in this country.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what date he has set as a target for clearing the timber blown down in the gale last January.

The target date set by the Action Group itself is the end of September, 1969.

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that the situation in the light of that reply is extremely serious, particularly in the private sector? Is it not the case that, by the end of last September, only 20 per cent. of windblown timber in that sector had been cleared and that, if the target date is to be reached, clearance will have to be stepped up in order to cover 75 per cent.? Since manpower has drifted away from these areas with the approach of winter, will he consider giving an inducement to try to get men back?

The hon. Gentleman has put his finger on the trouble. The figures he has quoted are more or less accurate. The shortage of skilled labour is the critical matter. We want to review this as we go on and consider whether we can improve on progress but, frankly, I do not know whether we can now manage the target because of manpower shortage. However, we shall do our best.

Will my hon. Friend note that the number of forestry workers employed by the Forestry Commission is being steeply run down? This will reach a figure of about 2,000 over the whole country but mainly in Scotland. Will he watch this aspect in Scotland?

We hope that every encouragement will be given by the Forestry Commission—as it has already done—to try to get men displaced to come and help with the wind-blow difficulties.

If the target date cannot be achieved, will it not be necessary to extend transport help beyond that date?

That is a fair point and we shall consider it as we go along.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland in view of the size and complexity of various major projects such as that of Murco which are now envisaged in the Clyde area, if he will arrange for a comprehensive public inquiry covering all such projects rather than that each should be considered separately.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if, before any decisions are taken, he will publish the proposals for the comprehensive development of the Clyde and West of Scotland areas and allow the widest possible pubic discussion of such proposals and submit them to the House.

The Clyde Estuary Development Study was commissioned to focus consideration of such issues. There will be a full opportunity for public discussion before planning decisions are taken on any major new industrial proposals within the ambit of the Study and, so far as possible, related issues will be considered together. I cannot at this stage say whether it will be appropriate to bring any of these proposals before the House.

in studying the report will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the development of industry along the Clyde estuary will not only be highly damaging to tourism but will also mean that inland towns will be denuded of industry? Would it not be better to see that industry is brought to the people rather than vice versa?

There is a balance of considerations in all these things, but we must not jeopardise too readily the prosperity or possible increased prosperity of the Clyde..

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many members of the public are apprehensive about rumours of what is proposed and that some kind of public statement is required fairly soon? Does he also accept that, of all those involved in the discussions, it is only the elected representatives of the people in this House who have not had the opportunity of knowing what is proposed?

I hope that we shall get the report of the Clyde Estuary Study in a few weeks' time. But there is little one can do about rumours except to point out that people should wait until they get firm information about what is really afoot.

In view of the enormous possible importance of this development to the Clyde area and the very large number of interests involved, will the right hon. Gentleman do his best to publish the first report he has available so that the people know what is being planned and need not rely on rumours?

The decision about publication of the report is not for me but I expect the Steering Group of the commissioning authorities to publish a report as soon as possible.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland, in view of the recently published figures of crime in Scotland, what steps he proposes taking to try to halt the increase which has taken place over recent years.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what action he proposes to take to reverse the increasing crime wave; and if he will make a statement.

With permission, I shall answer Questions 13 and 71 together.

Order. The Chair must be told of groupings.

I would refer the hon. Members to the reply my right hon. Friend gave to the hon. Member for Dumfries (Mr. Monro) on Wednesday, 27th November.—[Vol. 774, c. 121.]

Is not this merely tinkering with the problem? How long will it take the hon. Gentleman to face the fact that the first duty of the Government is to provide law and order and that, when murder and crimes of violence have doubled over the last five years, ordinary citizens no longer feel that this is what is being done by the Government?

The hon. Gentleman should know better than to ask me to face this problem. It would have been more helpful to his own community if statements he has made—some of them outrageous—had slackened rather than increased the tension. Such statements do not help me in trying to get to grips with the problem in a positive way.

Does not my hon. Friend agree that, if the courts got rid of inconsistency in sentencing, we might make better progress? For example, we have had an instance of a man being sent to prison for a driving offence while another received probation for murder. Ending that sort of situation would help to curb crime in Scotland.

If my hon. Friend will write to me about the instances he has in mind, I will look into them but he will not expect me to comment on the courts. They hear the full evidence.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what changes have occurred in the estimates of the capital costs of the MacBraynes scheme to serve Islay, Jura, Colonsay and Gigha since July of this year; and what is the present estimate of the capital cost of this scheme and of that proposed by Western Ferries.

Recent indications are that there will be some increase in the capital costs, but I have no reason to think that this increase will be so large as to affect my decision in favour of MacBrayne's services. I have therefore had no reason to ask Western Ferries for revised estimates of capital costs.

Does not the Secretary of State understand that there is no need to ask Western Ferries to revise costs? They have already ordered a boat at a price they said they could afford. When the right hon. Gentleman says that there has been some increase he should be honest with the House and tell us what it is, because my information is that it is very considerable indeed, and that it is a waste of money.

I do not consider it to be a waste of money at all, because I have had to bear in mind in respect of this decision—which was related originally to an overland scheme which was supported by the right hon. Gentleman and which was to cost very much more than the MacBrayne's scheme—the reliability and efficiency of the service, with reasonable passenger comfort. I was satisfied that this would come from MacBrayne's. I am not convinced that the same standard and assurance of service could be provided by the smaller ships and smaller terminals provided by Western Ferries. I had to take into account the possible consequences of a fragmentation of MacBrayne's services.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what expenditure he proposes to make in the roads, bridges and transport fields within the Highland counties above the existing programmes in the next three years.

At this stage, I cannot forecast the level of Government expenditure in the Highlands during the next three years, either on roads and bridges or in that part of the transport field which is my responsibility.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that we on this side do not expect him to be able to do anything, but that I have information that makes me believe that he has wantonly wasted £1 million in Islay, Jura and Colonsay and that he might have used the money more satisfactorily elsewhere?

The right hon. Gentleman must appreciate that I resisted his blandishments to spend £1 million more in that respect. I can assure him that if he cares to go round the Highlands, as I have done, he will find that the people think that we are the first Government who have really started to tackle the problem.

Is the Secretary of State aware that Scotland is at the bottom of Europe's motorway league—[HON. MEMBERS: "What?"]—and that he has not been able satisfactorily to answer questions about motorway proposals? Is it not clear that expenditure here would compare unfavourably with the expenditure on just one underground extension in London? Is it not time that the Government in Westminster attended to the Highlands, and the attendant problems?

It is time the hon. Lady got her facts right. Her statement about motorways, like most of her other statements, has no relation at all to the truth.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that this afternoon we are witnessing a certain amount of hypocrisy? Is he aware that only the other day in the Scottish Grand Committee an hon. Member on the other side called for massive cuts in public expenditure, and was not contradicted by his own Front Bench?

There is no doubt about the difference between what hon. Members say in the House and what they do in the Division Lobbies.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what advice he has given to city planning authorities about open spaces and recreational facilities in new housing areas.

Advice on the layout of housing developments, including provision for open spaces and recreation, is given in the Scottish Housing Handbook.

Has the Minister of State noticed that housing estates in Edinburgh and other cities never seem to be quite completed? Can he do more to see that proper recreational space is provided, and that there is, perhaps, a bit of landscaping? It would make all the difference.

I accept that fair criticism can be made of local authority estates in Edinburgh and elsewhere in Scotland—as, indeed, is the case in many private developments in Scotland. With this in mind, we are revising the housing handbook jointly with the Ministry of Housing and Local Government. I hope that a new bulletin will be ready by the end of next year. The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that this is an extremely complicated matter, but if we can raise standards all round it is really worth the effort.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what study his Department made of improvements in communications in Fife and between Glenfarg and Perth.

Communications in these areas are being examined in the Tayside Study and the East Central Scotland Land Use/Transportation Study. North-south communications will be greatly improved by the M90 motorway from Perth to the Forth Road Bridge, of which the Cowdenbeath bypass, now under construction, forms a part.

The motorway is moving rather slowly. Has the Minis- ter noticed that this proposed closure of the railway, the direct link between Edinburgh and Perth, would harm communications, particularly to the north? Will he use his good offices to see that the railway is kept open?

I know that British Rail intends to make formal publication of its proposal to close but the decision whether or not to close the line will be taken by the Minister subsequent to the hearing by the Scottish Transport Users Consultative Committee, and the views of the Tayside Study Group Committee and the Scottish Economic Planning Council will be taken into account.

Is the Minister aware that he has just authorised the expenditure of another large sum of money on the Dundee to Perth road; that the shortest route for all the traffic passing through, with the exception of purely local traffic, is not this road at all, and that he could save money by expenditure on the Fife road, which provides a much shorter route to Glasgow and Edinburgh?

I am aware of the announcement about the £400,000 to be spent on the A85, since I made it myself on Friday on behalf of my right hon. Friend. I would not agree that development of the A85 should take second place to a Fife regional road. It is the policy of the Government that we shall develop the M90 and the A85. The route of the East Fife road and its potential traffic growth are being studied for possible development some time in the seventies.

Will the Minister agree that rapid links with the south are essential to the future economy of Perth? Will he recognise the very wide concern that has been expressed in Perth about the present proposal which would, in effect, put the city half an hour further away than at present? Further, can he say when the motorway is likely to be completed?

I hope that we would have the motorway, including the southern part of the Perth bypass, completed by the early seventies, but I cannot be precise without due notice. I quite accept that we have to hear the case both for and against British Rail's proposal for closure, but a proposition that has been drawn to our attention, and rehearsed in this question, is that the line of the route might well use some of the railway track if permission for the closure is given, which I admit is an open question.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether, as Chairman of the Scottish Economic Planning Council, he will make public the views of the Council on the proposed closure of the Edinburgh-Hawick-Carlisle railway line.

No, Sir.

Is the Secretary of State aware that the Borders Economic Group has made public its view that this decision is a serious mistake, and that it is public knowledge that the Scottish Planning Council supports that view? Will he take account of the recent representations of the Scottish Council (Development and Industry) and the Church and National Committee of the Church of Scotland, and stand up to his Cabinet colleagues in seeking to have the decision reviewed?

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that exhaustive study was given to this matter. As he knows, this closure was held up for a considerable period in order that we should have this exhaustive study, but there is no doubt at all that the evidence was that the decision would not be an inhibiting factor on economic growth.

Would the Secretary of State accept that the closure of the goods section of a line subsequent to the closure of the passenger section are often equal disasters? Will he confirm or deny that the goods section of the Waverley line will be closed in the spring?

I do not intend to confirm anything at all about that. It is a matter for the Ministry of Transport.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will now institute a survey with a view to the construction of a bridge from the mainland to the Island of Skye.

No, Sir.

Is the Minister of State aware that the Scottish Council has agreed to undertake a private survey and is much to be congratulated on taking an initiative about something which is basically a Government responsibility? Can he assure us that he will give it every assistance and consider, for example, the possibility of a special grant to enable it to finish the survey quickly?

The hon. Gentleman asked me a similar question about the Ballachulish bridge survey, and he knows the pleasant consequence of that, which is that the Government have agreed that we shall do that survey ourselves. The hon. Gentleman knows that we cannot do everything at once. The Highland Transport Board and the Highlands and Islands Development Board have formed the view, which they have passed on to the Secretary of State, that in the context of the transport needs of the Highlands as a whole, a bridge to Skye must be a long-term possibility. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will accept the priorities.

Will not the Minister of State soon press on with the existing scheme for a bridge from the mainland to the Isle of Bute?

That eloquently testifies not only to the dilemma facing the Government, but also to the dilemma facing hon. Gentleman opposite who want to cut Government expenditure.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects to make a statement on the submission made to him by the Crofters Commission on the future of crofting.

I cannot yet add to the answer I gave on 5th November to my hon. Friend the Member for Caithness and Sutherland (Mr. Maclennan).—[Vol. 772, c. 72.]

Can the Secretary of State assure us that we may have a debate on these proposals in the Scottish Grand Committee as soon as possible, and that there will be the widest consultation with the crofting community before any legislation is devised?

A debate is a matter for the Leader of the House, but I am certainly anxious to have views on this subject publicly ventilated and certainly discussed by Members of Parliament, because it is a very complex and far-reaching proposal.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he will make a statement about the Government's acceptance of the proposals contained in the Johnson-Marshall plan for the Borders, in the light of the representations made to him by the hon. Member for Roxburgh, Selkirk and Peebles, the Borders Consultative Group and the local authorities.

The comments received reveal differing points of view which it would be desirable to discuss with the authorities concerned before I make any final policy statement. These discussions will be held as soon as possible.

Is not the Secretary of State concerned about the delay in implementing the White Paper's basic proposals on the Borders? If so, will he recognise that an early statement from him is desirable? Will he pay due regard to the general feeling that the plan should be amended more in favour of the expansion of the existing burghs?

As the hon. Gentleman knows, there is another point of view. I received the comments of Roxburgh County Council only in mid-November and it would be wrong to proceed to a decision without having the necessary discussions with those concerned.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many training pools or swimming pools there are in post-primary schools in Midlothian; and how many additional ones are planned for the future school building programme.

Five; three more are under construction and one is being planned.

Is my hon. Friend aware that that information is most impressive? Does he not agree that information now becoming available shows that such projects are preventing loss of life through drowning?

I am very glad to have that tribute. My hon. Friend may be interested to know that since we issued a circular on this matter, in May 1967, about 75 pools have been built or are now in the planning or construction stages. Those are very striking figures.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what increase there has been in the number of further education students in the county of Midlothian at present; and if he will give the total numbers for the years 1963 to 1968, respectively, giving figures for male and female students.

Provisional returns for October 1968 show enrolments of 3,123 in vocational further education courses in Midlothian compared with 2,677 in October 1967. In answer to the second part of the Question, I shall, with permission, circulate a table of figures in the OFFICIAL REPORT covering the total number of students enrolled in each session.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that the post-primary education policy pursued by the Midlothian Education Authority is a contributory factor in these increases in the numbers of students taking further education?

Yes, Sir. The figures also demonstrate the influence which the new Esk Valley College is already having on further education in Midlothian.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many mentally ill adolescents there are in Scotland; how many of these are in units for adolescents only; how many are in hospital wards with adult patients; and what plans he has for the provision of proper treatment facilities for these young people.

At the end of last year there were 204 young people in the age group 15–19 receiving in-patient treatment for mental illness; of these 42 were patients in adolescent units, 14 were in psychiatric units attached to general hospitals and the remainder were in the adult wards of mental hospitals. In the current year two further adolescent units providing 34 beds have been opened giving a total provision of 76 beds. Regional hospital boards have plans for further developments, though none within the immediate future.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Mental Welfare Commission is perturbed about the position of these young people? What advice does my right hon. Friend give to regional hospital boards in their discussions of what their priorities will be? Is there anything further he can do to ensure that these young people get the right treatment in suitable places?

I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend for the interest which she has shown in this matter. On looking into the facts, I quickly realised that there was under-provision, particularly in the Western Regional Hospital Board area. Its plans are to expand Woodilee to a unit of 40 boys and 20 girls and there are other plans under consideration in respect of Stobhill, Leverndale and Gartnavel, with a possibility, if required, of further beds at Ailsa; but none of these is immediate, although we are getting on with discussions about them.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the figures he has given are very sad and represent tragedy for some children and some parents? Will he look again at proposals for the South of Scotland, where parents at present have to travel to see their children at Larbert, which is too far away?

The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that the Government have doubled provision in this respect. The Western Region Hospital Board has indicated that it is prepared to consider provision of a unit at Crichton Royal, provided it can be done by adaptation and without substantial capital expenditure.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what response he has had from local authorities to his circular letter recommending them to have some basis for common house-letting policies; and if he will make a statement.

The circular asked for a response only from local authorities which considered the policies it described to be unsuitable for their areas. So far two small burghs have indicated that they wish to continue with different arrangements. Many authorities are no doubt still considering the matter.

Is my hon. Friend aware that in some parts of Lanark people have to wait for a house for two years, while in other parts they have to wait for seven years? Will he not remind local authorities that, in the interests of the people as a whole, the waiting periods should be level?

The circular was sent out only about six weeks ago. It is only reasonable to give local authorities time to consider it, because as my hon. Friend will appreciate, in Lanarkshire, for example, it will mean a substantial change of policy.

What general indication have the Government received from local authorities, in response to the circular on the recommendations of the Kay Report to the suggestions for improving mobility over the whole country, and in particular for abolishing residential qualifications for housing lists?

As I have said, it is a little early to be able to make an assessment because it is only six weeks since the circular was sent. Those with local authority experience will know that in local government that is not a long time when there have to be discussions in housing committees and allocation committees and so on before an issue goes to the council. So far, we have had only three letters and the hon. Gentleman would not, I am sure, like a reply based on only three letters.

Will my hon. Friend make it clear that the circular is advisory and not mandatory on local authorities?

Yes, this is so.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will now introduce legislation to prevent the reletting of houses deemed to be unfit and not closed when local authorities have rehoused existing tenants prior to demolition and clearance.

This is one of the matters under consideration for the Bill my right hon. Friend will be introducing this session.

Is my hon. Friend aware that living accommodation is sometimes built over shops and that, under present legislation, the shops, which are sometimes used as dwelling houses, cannot be condemned? Will he ensure that in the new legislation local authorities will be given power to put a closing order on shops when an area is required for redevelopment?

I should like to think about that a little longer. I should not like at Question Time to give a straight commitment one way or the other. If my hon. Friend will leave it with me, I will discuss it with my right hon. Friend.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he intends to authorise the supply of contraceptive advice and appliances on social grounds by local authorities under Section 15 of the Health Services and Public Health Act, 1968.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will now give local authorities the necessary instructions to bring Section 15 of the Health Services and Public Health Act, 1968, into force.

I cannot add to the reply which I gave the hon. Member for Roxburgh, Selkirk and Peebles (Mr. David Steel) yesterday.

Will not the Secretary of State accept that it is a thoroughly unsatisfactory situation in which local authorities cannot give contraceptive advice on social grounds when English authorities can? Will he confirm that this restriction is purely a matter of finance and will he give an estimate of what public expenditure is being saved by this rather petty action?

I entirely agree that we should like to be able to go ahead with this. It is a matter of finance. I cannot give a figure, but I do not suppose that it would be all that much. However, we have not had any representations from any Scottish local authority on this subject. It may be that each authority has its own ideas of priorities.

If it is cost which is holding back the Secretary of State, does he not agree that the cost of producing babies who may arrive by accident must be very much higher than the cost of advice and services rendered. in other words, that prevention of labour would be better than cure?

The hon. Gentleman should bear in mind that we took most of those factors into account.

In his circular the Secretary of State described the lack of provision of birth control facilities as an economy measure. Is that not the strangest economy measure of all?

The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that this is provision on the ground of social need. The health ground is not affected.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is satisfied with the progress being made by Scottish local authorities with the comprehensive reorganisation of secondary education: and if he will make a statement.

Yes, I am satisfied, but the rate at which reorganisation can be implemented depends to some extent on the size and nature of existing school accommodation and on priorities in the building programme for each area.

Will my right hon. Friend look most carefully at any attempt to rethink the accepted content of reorganisation schemes as a result of events at municipal elections in May?

Perhaps my hon. Friend has in mind something which might well be mooted in Aberdeen. I assure him that we shall give everything our usual careful consideration before coming to a decision.

Will the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that he will give directions that there should not be any further concentration of secondary education in certain circumstances?

If the hon. Gentleman looks at what has been done over the country, he will see that we have been flexible in our approach, bearing in mind all the local circumstances.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make an interim statement on his policy on the recommendations in the Hunter Report on Salmon and Trout Fishing published in 1965.

No, Sir. Since the recommendations are closely interlinked, I think it better to wait until my right hon. Friend is able to make a comprehensive statement.

After three long years, why no action yet?

I heard only the first part of my hon. Friend's question, "After three long years … ". As it is 101 years since the previous legislation was passed, perhaps three years is not quite so long.

Does the hon. Gentleman recall that, three years ago, his right hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh, East (Mr. Willis) said that this matter was being studied urgently, and that two years ago it was being studied very urgently? Would it not be helpful to the Secretary of State if he called back his right hon. Friend to help him?

We are now discussing it extremely urgently.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will instruct members of the council of the Scottish Special Housing Association to co-operate with local authorities in non-financial matters of amenity, and in particular to instruct them to enter discussions with those local authorities which, contrary to Scottish Special Housing Association practice, allow tenants to keep caravans in gardens.

Questions of this kind are best left to the council of management of the Association, but it is the practice of the council to operate in consultation with the local authorities in whose districts it owns houses.

Is it not intolerable that a council of management, elected by nobody, should set itself up as an arbiter of taste superior to the locally elected representatives of the people?

The council of management is appointed by the Secretary of State and it is responsible for the day-to-day management of the Association's business. As such, it is entitled to take a view on these matters which may in some cases be better than some local authority practice—

That is anti-democratic.

—or, on the other hand, may be not so good as local authority practice.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland, in view of the Government's policy for a shift of the sheep flocks towards the hills and uplands, if he will conduct a survey into the potential for expansion from the hills and uplands of the Highlands.

No, Sir. The Hill Lands Improvement Scheme and the work of the Hill Farming Advisory Committee, the Hill Farming Research Organisation and the Highlands and Islands Development Board can meet the needs of the situation.

As it appears that the Forestry Commission is re-examining its proposals for planting in the Highlands and going into the economics of afforestation, is not this an appropriate time to carry out a general survey of the potential of agriculture and forestry in the Highlands?

Where special problems arise, special surveys are carried out. One thinks of the Highlands and Islands Development Board surveys in certain areas. As regards afforestation, there is close liaison on this and the related problems between the two Departments involved and the Highlands and Islands Development Board.

As an example of a survey carried out the results of which have not been made public, will my hon. Friend say what has happened to the plan for the Strath of Kildonan? The non-production of this plan is causing great annoyance in my constituency.

The Board has not yet put its proposals in that connection to my right hon. Friend.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland, in view of the imbalance in arable farming, due to the high profitability of cereal growing compared with livestock rearing, if he will now take steps to increase the profitability of livestock to redress this imbalance and improve the standard of husbandry.

The balance between cereal crops and livestock and the level of price guarantees and production grants as they affect different products will be considered, along with other relevant factors, at the forthcoming Annual Review.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the present system of cereal growing on farms year after year, without any change in rotation, makes for all sorts of troubles for the grower and lighter yields as time goes on? Would it not help the general standard of husbandry to have a better rotation system?

As a general statement of framing policy that is correct. I think that the hon. Gentleman has in mind the fattening of sheep in lowland areas. There has been an indication this autumn, since the store period, of a slight return to this form of farming, but it is too early to say.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will obtain a report as to the present strength of the Fife Constabulary and by how many that police force is over- or under-strength.

At 31st October, Fife Constabulary has an actual strength of 585 male and 29 female regular police officers; 17 males and 9 females below its authorised establishment.

According to Press reports about five weeks ago, the position seems to have worsened. Does not my hon. Friend think that the recent increase in police pay should have improved it?