asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he has considered the Buchanan Report on the future development of Llantrisant; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend has not yet received the report of his consultants, but expects to do so within the next month.

Does the Minister appreciate that the people of Llantrisant have been living in a climate of great uncertainty about the future for a number of years? May we hear when we can expect a firm decision to be taken about the Buchanan Report?

The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that my right hon. Friend will have to consider the Report when it is presented to him and will have to undertake very wide consultations before reaching a firm conclusion upon it.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether the A.483 road between Wrexham and its junction with the A.5 near Chirk is included in the list of roads to be improved in North Wales.

Yes, sir. Work on a Wrexham bypass should start at the end of 1970 and smaller improvements south of Wrexham should start this year.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reassuring reply, but may I ask whether special consideration will be given to the section of the road near the disused Wynnstay Colliery?

Yes. A road widening and realignment scheme at Wynnstay Colliery is already included. The proposal that I have mentioned will be prepared this year.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he has studied the memorandum submitted to him by the hon. Member for Caerphilly on industrial development along the Heads of the Valleys road; and what action he proposes to take in this matter.

My right hon. Friend has studied the memorandum and when he sees the proposals in their final form will consult my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade about any further action which it may be desirable to take.

Is the Minister aware that an extremely serious situation is developing in the upper part of the Rhymny Valley? Is she also aware that one colliery employing 680 men closed before Christmas, that one of the very few factories in the area employing 280 people is due to close in February, and that a further colliery employing 1,100 men is threatened with imminent closure? Will the Minister, in the circumstances, please pay close attention to this or any other scheme which may be submitted to ameliorate the situation?

My right hon. Friend is, of course, concerned about the difficulties which have been mentioned by my hon. Friend and for that reason he is anxious to have the final proposals submitted to him.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what arrangements he is making to provide programmes and other information regarding the Investiture of the Prince of Wales in the Welsh language.

All publications in connection with the Investiture ceremony for which I have any responsibility will be in both English and Welsh.

Does this not mean spending a lot of money? Is my right hon. Friend aware that most intelligent Welsh people can read English? Can he confirm the forecast of these arrangements and programmes, that the Prince of Wales is expected to make a speech in Welsh and that he will be sent to Aberystwyth University for a crash course in Welsh? Is not this too much of a strain both on the Prince and on the public?

With respect, His Royal Highness will be far more likely to make a speech in Welsh than my hon. Friend will ever be.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many letters he has received with offers of financial contributions to the cost to public funds of the Investiture at Caernarvon.

None, Sir. But many people are giving their valuable services without any financial reward. If my hon. Friend wishes to make a financial contribution I shall of course be pleased to hear from him.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that this enthusiasm for the Investiture that he imagines exists in Wales is not reflected in cash, and that we would like to see more money contributed by Wales, because no advantage is being given to other parts of the country? Further, is he aware that he underestimates my capacity for telling him in forcible language—in Welsh—what I think of him?

I should be interested to hear that. Perhaps my hon. Friend will have the opportunity to tell me one day. As for the first part of his question, he left Wales so long ago that he is quite out of touch. He does not realise that local authorities, who are the representatives of the people of Wales—

Let them pay.

are spending a considerable amount, with the good will of their people, for the celebrations in connection with the Investiture.

Will not the right hon. Gentleman accept that this is the first time that hon. Members on this side of the House have ever heard a Socialist equating enthusiasm with the word "cash" as the hon. Member has.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what action he proposes to relieve the traffic pressure through Usk in the interim period between the Raglan-Usk stage and Usk-Coldra stage of the Newport-Worcester trunk road.

My right hon. Friend does not expect an unacceptably high flow of additional traffic to be generated through Usk and foresees no need for special measures in the town.

Does my hon. Friend accept that the inhabitants of this delightful market town are already choked and deafened by the fumes and noise of the existing volume of traffic passing along the main street? Is this not bound to increase as a result of the opening of the next stage of the Newport-Worcester trunk road?

In the event of any serious congestion, the matter will be closely examined.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how he proposes to meet the increased volume of traffic in the Abergavenny to Raglan road following the forecast completion of the Newport-Worcester trunk road in 1971.

My right hon. Friend expects the road to handle the traffic without undue difficulty, though, as my hon. Friend was told on 14th November last, preliminary plans for an improved road have been prepared.—[Vol. 773, c. 1267.]

Does my hon. Friend accept that the bottleneck caused by this obvious missing link on the A40 is bound to impede the increasingly successful industrial policy of the Welsh Office on the Heads of the Valleys road?

I would emphasise to my hon. Friend that it would be a great mistake to create the impression among industrialists considering coming to Wales that there is likely to be any serious or prolonged congestion on this road. The road will, of course, be improved as soon as possible.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales (1) what steps he is taking to encourage more transfers into Wales of parts of the administration of various Government Departments and State boards; and to what extent he will encourage such transfers to Cardiff, Swansea, Newport and Barry, respectively;

Since 1964 a number of important decisions have been taken to locate Government establishments in South Wales. The jobs which will arise in Cardiff as a result of these decisions will be open to Barry residents since Barry is in the Cardiff travel-to-work area. In reaching decisions on the dispersal of Government offices the needs of Wales, including Barry, will continue to be taken into account, along with the needs of the rest of the country.

Owing to the development area policy making it difficult for new industries to be brought to the Barry, Cardiff and Newport areas, and causing some firms to consider leaving these areas, will the hon. Lady take doubly into account the great necessity of bringing alternative employment to these areas, perhaps in the form of office employment?

As the hon. Member will be aware, the fact that Newport and Cardiff are not development areas has not precluded the siting there of very important and large Government offices.

Does my hon. Friend appreciate that the people of South Wales realise that it is only since this Government have been in office that these measures of devolution have been encouraged—especially in Newport? We are very grateful for the decision to site the Census Office there, which, when completed, will employ about 2,000 people.

We are very glad to have some signs of appreciation. As my right hon. Friend made clear when he replied not long ago to my hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and Radnor (Mr. Tudor Watkins), a large dispersal of Government establishments is contemplated to South Wales.

With respect to the hon. Lady, she has not answered the question that my hon. Friend put. Whatever the past may have been under this Government or any other Government, can she say what steps the Secretary of State is taking to encourage more transfers to South Wales, especially with regard to what he has lately said about the drawing of industry into the development areas?

We are always on the lookout for possible fresh dispersal to Wales. One cannot say precisely what until the decisions have been taken, but a number of decisions have been made and also announced.

May I ask my hon. Friend not to neglect the claims of Cwmbran, where office development in that case would be as a result of public investment?

We are well aware of the desire for more office development in Cwmbran and are carefully considering it.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is the number of workers employed by the Forestry Commission in Wales; and what percentage of these are clerical, administrative, professional and supervisory staff, respectively.

Of 2,215 persons employed at 31st December, 417, or less than 20 per cent. were in non-industrial grades.

Is my hon. Friend aware that real concern is felt by those who are employed as non-administrative workers with the Forestry Commission about the way in which the Commission in Wales is being managed? In order that they may express their concern to my hon. Friend, will he meet a delegation from this side of the House to discuss the matter?

We are well aware of the concern that is felt. I shall be glad to meet any delegation to discuss the matter.

Can the Minister give any reason why the Forestry Commission does not have a very great appeal to Welsh people in terms of employment—in other words, why a lot of foresters seem to come from other parts of the United Kingdom? Is there any way in which the Commission can be made more attractive to the Welsh people?

The rundown that is taking place is due to new techniques and greater mechanisation. That is why we are encouraging as far as possible those we can employ. This is a fact that we have to face.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will revisit the Blaenau Ffestiniog area to assess its development potential and to discuss development and housing problems with the local authority.

My right hon. Friend has no immediate plans to visit the Blaenau Ffestiniog area but he will certainly consider doing so when time permits. In the meantime he will look into any problems affecting the area which my hon. Friend or the local authorities may wish to bring to his attention.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that although Government policy in Mid-Wales generally has been very successful, there are some areas, like Blaenau Ffestiniog, that have special problems which can be identified with the problem of certain mining valleys in South Wales, and that it would be appreciated by the people of Blaenau Ffestinicg if the Secretary of State were to come to the area so that he could appreciate the problems for himself?

I know that my right hon. Friend is well aware of the special difficulties in this district. When he will be able to come is a matter to be carefully considered.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is the estimated sum of money to be spent by local authorities in Wales for mortgages for house purchases this year; and how it compares with previous years.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what was the total grant for mortgages advanced to local authorities in Wales in each of the last three years; and what is the total planned for the forthcoming year.

The estimated sum to be advanced by local authorities in the financial year 1968–69 is £6·8 million and in the forthcoming year, £3 million, subject to review in six months' time. Local authorities advanced £6·8 million in 1967–68 and £9·6 million in 1966–67.

The Government do not give giants towards the cost of these advances.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind, when allocating this diminishing sum of money, that in some areas—particularly the older industrial areas—people desirous of buying their own houses are far more dependent on local authority mortgages because of the reluctance of building societies to loan money?

I am aware of the difficulty to which my hon. Friend refers and I hope that local authorities will pay special attention to older property, with the resources at their command.

I recognise the seriousness of this matter generally, but will the right hon. Gentleman be able to publish a list of those Welsh local authorities which have no further mortgage moneys available to them for house purchase for 1969?

I am not sure whether the hon. Member is pressing me to increase the amount that should be available. I will consider his request, bearing in mind—as I trust he will—that public expenditure must be controlled.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what plans he has to reduce the growing migration from Wales, and the growing unemployment including hidden unemployment, in Wales.

There is no evidence that migration from Wales is growing, and the published statistics show that there is an encouraging downward trend in the seasonably adjusted unemployment figures. I attribute this to the success of the Government's policies.

Is the Minister aware that he has given no answer to the Question, which asked what were his plans? In any case the Government's policy is utterly inadequate. In view of the absolute drop of 39,000 in the number of jobs for men between 1964 and 1968, and the fact that the low activity rate in Wales is dropping still further, giving a hidden unemployment of about 200,000, is he aware that if migration continues at the present rate we shall have lost 1 million of the people of Wales in a quarter of a century?

That is a lot of poppycock. The hon. Member thrives on grievances and tries to create them.

Answer the question.

I am answering the question—and I do not need any help from Scotland. The hon. Member should know that last year 7,000 more people were found jobs in Wales than in the year before. Everything that is encouraging to the rest of Wales is discouraging to the hon. Member.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that one of the ways in which migration can be stopped and the trend reversed is by the development of new towns and the building up of existing towns in Wales, and that when that is being done in various localities by Government policy it is always opposed by the party opposite?

I accept what my hon. Friend says about the advantage of new towns and growth areas, but I must discount this strange idea of migration from Wales. The argument of the hon. Member for Carmarthen (Mr. Gwynfor Evans) is not founded on fact.

But would the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind the great importance of providing employment opportunities for young technologists and scientists, and that there is great concern in Wales because there is no employment opportunity at that level, and the importance, therefore, of having research and development establishments set up in Wales?

I am ever mindful of the need of opportunities for our young technologists and am glad to tell the House that the new industry which is coming to Wales considerably increased that opportunity during the past six months. It is modern, soundly-based industry, which will give greater opportunity to our young people, and I want more.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what plans he has for increasing the financial assistance given to publishing books in the Welsh language.

The financial assistance given by the Government to help the publication of books in the Welsh language was increased by 50 per cent. in 1966 and I have no immediate plans for a further increase.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is still a miserably small sum, no bigger than the sum given by the Government to assist a very wealthy brewery company to rebuild a public house in Swansea, and that this shows how low in the Government's priorities are the language and literature of Wales?

Once again, I am sorry to have to be the one to correct the hon. Gentleman, but it so happens that the amount is four times the help which was given in the instance to which he refers. He has not yet brought one correct fact before the House.

To assist the House, could my right hon. Friend give the comparable figure of Welsh Office assistance to books published in the English language?

It would not be very large.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what plans he has for giving a further grant to the Welsh Tourist Board in 1969.

My right hon. Friend is at present considering this matter taking account of the Government's proposals for a new statutory organisation for tourism.

With respect, that does not answer my Question. Has the hon. Gentleman seen reports that the Welsh Tourist Board is at present, in the short-term, running out of funds in this important year? What are the Government's plans for coping with this problem?

The Government have already announced plans on tourism; they were announced by the President of the Board of Trade recently, and my hon. Friend must await the Bill which will shortly be brought forward. No Government have done more for tourism in Wales than the present Government, who have recognised it as an important industry. I am sure that I carry the hon. Gentleman with me when I pay a warm tribute to the present Board, under the leadership of Mr. D. J. Davies, for what it has already achieved.

But is not my hon. Friend aware that the situation is that the Welsh Tourist Board must either get the new statutory powers this year or more cash this year?

The answer is, of course, as I have said, that the new Board will be appointed this year, and the whole matter will be then considered.

But will the hon. Gentleman take into account the fact that Mr. D. J. Davies has said that the financial position of the Board is really desperate? Surely there is power for the Welsh Office to help the Board at this stage before legislation?

Yes, I am aware of what Mr. Davies has said, but I want to pay tribute, as he himself has done, to what the local authorities have done. A great deal can be done by local authorities. It is for them to continue to support the Board in the interests of their own areas.

Could the hon. Gentleman pay further attention to one part of my Question? Admittedly, we shall have to wait for legislation in the long term, but what do the Government intend to do in the short term, in view of the comments which the hon. Gentleman admits?

The research grant which the Government gave three years ago is continuing. It has been a valuable contribution to the Board, which has produced, as a result, some excellent literature which cannot be bettered by that of any part of the United Kingdom.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he is satisfied that posts will be available for the increased number of people qualifying as teachers; whether it is estimated that the provision of new schools and the reduction in the size of classes will keep pace with the increase in the number of people entering the teaching profession; and if he will make a statement.

I refer the hon. Member to my reply to the hon. Member for Cambridge (Mr. Lane) on 5th December last. As to the second part of the Question, I do not think that accommodation problems will prevent authorities from making good use of the extra teachers.—[Vol. 774, c. 522–3.]

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, in Bromsgrove, there is an excellent teacher training college and that recently many teachers came to my "surgery" and said that they were very perturbed and confused about the future of the profession?

The only confusion comes from people like the hon. Gentleman, who are deliberately spreading confusion, on this matter. I have spelled this out in the clearest terms. If the local authorities employ all the teachers which they said that they were going to employ when they negotiated the rate support grant, all the 13,000 additional teachers in September will get jobs.

On a point of order. In view of that very unsatisfactory reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter as soon as possible.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he is satisfied with the overall economic return on expenditure on scientific satellites, and if he will make a statement.

Scientific satellites are flown for their scientific value and not for their economic return. There is, however, an incidental economic return in the potential which their design, development and production gives to United Kingdom industry when competing in international markets for space contracts.

Is this not a very curious doctrine? Scientific satellites must throw back into the economy some benefit. Can we not have more details about the economic return which is obtained from these scientific probes into space? Could the hon. Lady look at this very seriously to see what the feed-back is to industry?

The hon. Member will appreciate that the reason for my Answer is that it is not altogether easy to quantify this. The actual expenditure is about £2¾ million on the whole of the British national scientific space programme. In particular, I would point to the contract which was won from E.S.R.O. as the prime contractors for one of their three space experiments, and we were important sub-contractors for two others. Also, we have, for the first time, launched a wholly British-made scientific space experiment in the shape of Ariel III.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science (1) what systematic progress-chasing he has done of the recommendations of the Swann Committee Report;

These two Reports, raising many important and complex issues, have been and are being considered by a wide range of bodies in industry, science and education, by the Royal Society, the University Grants Committee and individual universities, by the C.B.I., the Research Councils, the Schools Council and others. The lively discussion continues. Appropriate action is being taken by such bodies as the Science Research Council in its postgraduate awards and by the Schools Council in its development programmes. My Department is in close touch with these efforts and with the continuing debate.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that some of us very much agreed with his remark yesterday that higher education was consuming too much of its own product, but in these matters would it be possible for someone to lay out clearly what action has been taken, recommendation by recommendation, on these Reports? Much good work is being done, but could we be clearly told what is happening?

I should be happy to write to my hon. Friend on this. There is an impressive list of individual items on which action has been taken, but it is extremely important not to regard these Reports as a cut-and-dried blueprint for action. They are a contribution to thinking on a very important problem and that is the way to regard them.

Is it not important that there should be a wide debate on these Reports, not just by way of speeches and memos circulated by the right hon. Gentleman, but also in the organisations and in publications like the Universities Quarterly and higher education journals? Will he give an undertaking that he will ensure reasonable liberty for officers of the Schools Council to put their views publicly so that there can be the widest possible exchange on these important subjects?

I certainly endorse what the right hon. Gentleman says. I do not believe that I have any power to prevent officers of the Schools Council expressing their views on anything, and I should welcome an expression of views on this. Perhaps some of the most hopeful action is being taken in curriculum development in the improvement of science and mathematics teaching in schools. I am not sure whether this is not the most fruitful way of all to tackle the shortage of scientists and mathematicians,

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when he will give approval for the work shops, music room and additional class rooms at Deansfield High School, Wolverhampton, to be completed.

I am awaiting a reply from the authority to my letter about its reorganisation scheme before considering this building project further.

Does my right hon. Friend recall that he opened this school in my constituency very recently and that the completion of the school should not be held back because of the plan which the local authority has sent in? Is he aware that we are anxious to get this work done and will he reconsider the mailer?

I recall opening the school, which is a splendid one for which I congratulate the local authority. I want to see how the completed project will fit into the long-term reorganisation scheme, and that is what I am waiting for now. The local authority received my letter—I understand that it did not receive the first copy and that a copy of the original was sent—and I am awaiting its reply.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what reply he has sent to the Wolver-hampton Education Committee about its proposals for the reorganisation of secondary education.

I have told the authority that, although the proposed long-term pattern of all-through comprehensive schools is satisfactory in principle, I cannot regard the plan, as a whole, as a fully adequate response to Circular 10/65 because it involves the prolonged retention of a degree of selection and assumes far more replacement building than is likely to be available. I have, therefore, asked the authority to reconsider these aspects of its scheme.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that since the authority received his second letter a statement has been made by the chairman of the education committee to the effect that the authority is willing to have a head-on clash with the Government over this, which means, in effect, a declaration of war against the Government? Is he further aware that it has been suggested that if the authority does not get its way over the secondary reorganisation scheme, it intends to use some of the money allocated in this hard-won fight to get nursery classes in the area and to build the secondary schools which are likely to be affected by the refusal of the scheme? Will my right hon. Friend take urgent action on this issue?

The only report that I have seen is a cutting which I believe my hon. Friend sent to me some time ago. I have had no official word at all from the local authority about this matter and I therefore cannot comment on it. I would have thought that perhaps the most demonstrably true fact in contemporary politics is that the present Government do not shirk from head-on clashes with anybody.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will make a statement on the progress of his negotiations with Reading County Borough Council as to the reorganisation of secondary education in the town.

As my right hon. Friend informed the House on 28th November last, the authority's education committee has reconstituted its working party on reorganisation. I have not yet been informed of its deliberations.

Will the right hon. Gentleman use the opportunity of the interval to answer a simple question which he has given the appearance so far of not being prepared to answer? Has he or has he not under present legislation any power to force on a local education authority a secondary reorganisation plan of which it disapproves? Will he answer "Yes" or "No"?

The hon. Gentleman has asked that question before. I answered it on a previous occasion.

Tell us again.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when he will introduce legislation to enable the final year of secondary education to be undertaken in colleges of further education.

I have this issue under consideration but I am not yet ready to make a statement.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that although many of us wholeheartedly support the decision to raise the school leaving age to 16, a significant number of 15-year olds in our secondary schools conceive an intense distaste for the environment in the typical secondary school and would learn far more and far better in a college of further education? Would not he agree that it is now a matter of urgency that legislation should be introduced to make this possible?

I agree with my hon. Friend's conclusion but I do not agree with the premise that it is connected with the quality of some of our secondary schools. I am anxious to do this, but he will realise that it involves a great deal of consultation with a great many people. I hope that I shall be able to make an announcement on the matter shortly.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when a charter will be granted to the Open University.

It is hoped that the draft charter will be submitted by the spring to Her Majesty in Council for approval.

When this charter is granted will the Minister of State persuade her right hon. Friend to issue a circular to local authorities asking them to cooperate with this university, particularly in the provision of local viewing centres, which they could do at very little extra marginal cost, in the premises which they already have in libraries and colleges and schools?

We have been very much encouraged by the good will and cooperation which we are receiving from local authorities and others who really understand the nature of this project. I assure my hon. Friend that other opportunities will be taken to give further publicity to this matter.

Why is the money for this university not coming through the University Grants Committee?

Because this is an experimental university which will maintain the highest level of academic standard and which, at the same time, is using new media. We believe that it is proper that it should be initiated in this fashion.

Would the right hon. Lady answer two questions? First, if there is to be a circular, would she undertake that considerably more precise details of the costing be included in it than we have had hitherto; and, secondly, is she aware that, with the best will in the world, local authorities are extremely perplexed due to the severe limitations on their money and the fact that they must provide for many other essential services?

The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that in some quarters the cost of this project has been grossly exaggerated. For the sake of accuracy, I will repeat some relevant figures. The 1968–69 estimate is £0·4 million. For 1969–70 it is £1½ million to £2 million, and for the working year 1970–71 it is £3·5 million to £4 million. Every opportunity is being taken by the present planning committee, the vice-chancellor and all others who are working on this scheme to see that the most accurate and up-to-date information, financial and otherwise, is given to all concerned, including the local authorities.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science why his Department has made a reduction in local authorities' forecasts of the increased costs of teachers' salaries and of other costs in further education by approximately £17 million in 1969–70 and £23 million in 1970–71.

In my view, the local authorities' forecasts of expenditure on further education for rate support grant purposes were related to a rise in student numbers out of line with recent trends, and implied an increase in costs per student going beyond what we can afford in present circumstances.

Has not the Secretary of State failed to take into account the fact that even if the trend in student numbers may not be rising all that steeply, the trend in the cost of further education—the trend to take more expensive courses—is rising very steeply and that this is an element which, in looking only at numbers, he has failed to take into account?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising this matter, because it gives me an opportunity to make it clear that I sincerely believe that the local authorities overestimated the increases. They were suggesting that there would be an increase of 13 per cent. in the first year and 20 per cent. in the second. My officials estimated that there would be an increase of 9 per cent. in the first year and 14 per cent. in the next. That was the first difference.

The second difference was about the additional amount that would have to be spent per student. They thought that it would be 3 per cent. and we said that it would be about 1½ per cent. The third factor was the fact that we felt that more progress should be made on implementing the Pilkington Report. Those were the only three issues which arose in the sphere of further education.

Will my right hon. Friend pay particular attention to this problem of further education remembering that, as opposed to his control over primary and secondary education, he has very little control over local authorities which choose, perhaps for other reasons, to dismiss teachers in mid-career?

I agree, but this works in the opposite direction, too. I am sure that many local authorities do not really understand the staffing position in their colleges. The Pilkington Report suggested that the staffing was, in many respects, over-generous. We have made some progress in this matter and all that I am asking local authorities to do in the next year and the year after that is to make a little more progress.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will give details of the advice he is giving local authorities on the postponing of repairs and maintenance of educational buildings and grounds as a measure of educational economy.

I have given no such advice.

Is it not clear that to get anywhere near the restrictions required by the Secretary of State, local education authorities have, on their education expenditure, been forced to cut much of their care and maintenance work for this year? Is it not piling up trouble for future years if, as a result of his policy, the only course open to them is to go on cutting maintenance in the following year as well?

The hon. Gentleman is wrong again. One of the assumptions on which the rate support grant settlement was reached was that the standard of repair and maintenance over the next two years would be at about the same level as at present.

indicated dissent.

The hon. Gentleman need not shake his head. I was involved in the negotiations and I assure him that this was one of the assumptions.

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would care to tell the House how much, in addition to the education bill, he would add for this purpose? I assure him that we are keeping a close tally on all the additions to public expenditure which are being suggested by hon. Gentlemen opposite.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what progress has been made, with the assistance of his Department, with the formation of an East Anglian Regional Arts Association.

Two meetings were arranged by interested parties at Bury St. Edmunds in 1967 to discuss the formation of an association, and some questions raised were examined in 1968 by chief officers of county and borough councils. In consultation with my Department, the Arts Council hopes to convene a meeting this summer to see whether there is sufficient support to enable an association to be launched next year.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he is aware that some 80 infant and junior pupils at the St. Mary's Junior Roman Catholic School, Warwick, have to be accommodated in a small, narrow cloakroom for half-an-hour daily while their classrooms are being prepared for the serving of school dinners, and cleared afterwards; and what proposals he has for including improvements to this school in the building programme with a view to ending the overcrowded conditions.

I am aware of the difficulties in this school. I understand that the authority expects the number of children in the area to grow and I shall be happy to reconsider the case for a new school when the authority submits a new proposal.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that Answer. Would not he agree that it is remarkable in this day and age that these black hole of Calcutta conditions should be allowed to exist, even if only for a few more months?

There are thousands of old schools throughout the country which should have been demolished many years ago.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will seek to ensure that the pensions of the staff of the Arts Council are brought up to parity with the pensions of other civil servants of equivalent grades.

The staff of the Arts Council are not civil servants. Their superannuation scheme, though otherwise broadly equivalent to the Civil Service scheme, is contributory. I am, however, prepared to consider sympathetically whether this difference between the two schemes could be adjusted, provided that it can be shown that the staff are in other respects analogous to civil servants.

Would not the right hon. Lady agree that it is an astonishing anomaly, brought to light by the Arts Council's Report, that this situation should exist? Is she aware that anything she can do to help in this matter would be much appreciated?

I have had no official representations from the Arts Council on this matter, although I know that there is some concern about it. We will certainly sympathetically consider what we can do if there is any feeling of injustice.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will now raise the amount which a post graduate with a grant from his Department, the Science Research Council, or the Social Science Research Council, is allowed to earn before any deductions are made from his grant.

No, Sir, but I will consider this proposal when postgraduate student awards are next reviewed.

Can the hon. Lady say exactly what the cost would be of doing this, bearing in mind the fact that most of the postgraduates concerned would be careful to ensure—indeed, are already careful to do this—that they do not earn above the limit?

I cannot answer my hon. Friends supplementary question because the three groups of regulations—and this applies to the Department of Education and Science as well as the two Research Councils—have just been brought into line and allow for an additional increase in the earnings of those who teach in school or university.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make it a condition of grants from the Science Research Council to post-graduate students that they should do part-time teaching in the senior schools near their universities.

This brings me to the rest of the Question.

I welcome any help that postgraduate students can give to the schools. The Science Research Council regulations now allow students to supplement awards by undertaking teaching in schools for up to one day a week. I do not consider that this should be made compulsory.

Is the Minister aware that this was a specific recommendation of the Appointments Board which, if implemented, would substantially help to overcome the shortage of science teachers in schools?

The difficulty is that some of the award holders are not near schools. A further difficulty is that there is some evidence, from earlier experiments, to show that those compelled to do teaching do not make very good teachers. Nevertheless, we will look at this matter closely at the next review.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether, in view of the fact that a definition of British archaeological material has now been agreed by the Departments concerned, he will now, in order to safeguard Great Britain's archaeological heritage, make the same exemption from the £2,000 limit of the export of such material as already holds for manuscripts, documents and archives.

I understand that no definition of British archaeological material has yet been agreed by the Departments concerned; therefore no change in existing arrangements seems appropriate, but I am very ready to consider any evidence I receive of serious loss from present practices.

I am grateful for that Answer. Is my right hon. Friend aware that at a meeting between her Department and the Customs in April, 1968, attended by the British Museums' Association, a formula was agreed, subject to any legal loopholes arising? Will she look into the matter to see if this formula can be adopted?

My information is that agreement has not yet been reached and that we cannot suggest action until agreement is concluded.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he has considered the report made by Tynemouth teachers on the employment out of school hours of school children and the effect on their capacity to learn, a copy of which is in his possession; and if he will give consideration to setting up a general inquiry on similar lines to ascertain the national facts on this matter.

I received the report only two days ago. I am considering it in consultation with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department and will inform the hon. Lady when we have reached conclusions.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that statement. Is he aware that, certainly in the North of England, people will look forward eagerly to a pronouncement by him and that we hope that it will be in the direction of dealing with this somewhat out-of-date practice?

asked the Prime Minister what plans he has for making a Ministerial broadcast on the state of the economy.

None at present, Sir. All the facts and statistics relating to the nation's economic situation are available to the broadcasting authorities.

Nevertheless, now that the Prime Minister is on speaking terms with the B.B.C.—presumably not for very long—does he not owe it to the country to explain the extent to which it is the Government's intention to balance the books by selling off the underlying assets in the form of British companies to American companies? Can he assure us that the next time he addresses us on this subject, he will avoid another fit of the miracles?

I have never been other than on speaking terms with the B.B.C, and did a number of broadcasts last year. On the second point, I answered a Question on Tuesday about this. If the hon. Gentleman is unhappy about the question of take-over bids from abroad, and would like my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to use powers, which the hon. Gentleman opposed the Government having, then I am prepared to put that suggestion to him.

Would my right hon. Friend remind hon. Members opposite of the large number of articles, highly favourable to the Government's economic efforts, which are appearing in the Right-wing newspapers, such as the Financial Times, and the most wonderful glossy magazines, like The Director, and Management Today? Surely further broadcasts would be superfluous.

I am not responsible for what appears in any newspapers.

When the right hon. Gentleman makes another Ministerial broadcast, would he say what he is doing to prevent British industry being bought too cheaply from abroad? Is not one way of preventing this to stop attacking British capital and British savings over here?

That seems a little illogical. If the hon. Gentleman is suggesting that people are denigrating British firms, it is rather difficult to understand why he finds that there is such keenness to buy them from abroad. I answered a question on this in a broadcast on "Panorama" last week, I think. I would be prepared to send a copy of that to the hon. Gentleman, if I am right in that remembrance.

asked the Prime Minister whether the public speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer at Eston on 8th December about the state of the economy represents Government policy.

Yes, Sir.

Will the Prime Minister ask the Chancellor to refrain from talking about "export-led spurts" and "steady improvements" until they actually take place? Is he further aware that the news that both he and the Chancellor were not to resign, which the Chancellor gave in that speech, was a body blow to sterling?

My right hon. Friend was replying to certain rumours in the City the previous Friday that we were to resign, which involved a very serious loss of confidence in sterling. It was only—[Interruption]—that was what the City Editors said was the reason for the decline in sterling following these rumours. The hon. Gentleman would be glad to have noticed that, when the rumours were no longer believed, sterling began to recover from that moment.

As to the question of export-led booms and spurts, the hon. Gentleman will no doubt use his influence to put across the fact that there was an increase of between 4 per cent. and 5 per cent. in production last year, and 7 per cent. in productivity, and that since the increase in export volume was 11 per cent. over that period, the phrase used by my right hon. Friend seems to have been justified.

asked the Prime Minister if he is satisfied with the co-ordination between the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Ministry of Defence over the question of renegotiating the Nassau Agreement; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir.

In view of the uncertainty and the unsettled state of the world today, is it not time that the Government said—and, frankly, I believe that the country would accept it—that it was no longer their policy to try to renegotiate the Nassau Agreement?

No, Sir. In May, 1967, I informed the President of the United States that it was our intention, at the appropriate time, to carry through the renegotiation. Of course, this depends on progress made on this question in N.A.T.O. The hon. Gentleman will, I think, have been glad to hear of the establishment of the Nuclear Planning Group, and progress is being made there. We must wait to see how that works out before it is time for the bilateral negotiations following it up.

asked the Prime Minister if he will arrange to visit Nigeria.

As the hon. gentleman will be aware, I have been in close personal touch with the Head of the Federal Military Government in Nigeria, through the usual diplomatic channels and successive Ministerial visits, and in addition have had the benefit of a number of talks with the head of the Nigerian delegation to the Comomnwealth Prime Ministers' Meeting earlier this month.

Will the Government not stop supplying arms to Nigeria for the most unpleasant reason that they wish to influence events there? Is he aware that this smacks of a sort of neocolonialism which comes very ill from the Government?

If the hon. Gentleman ponders that question, he will feel that he fails to do justice to the situation, which has been debated very fully in this House just before Christmas. He will recognise that, if this country, as the principal arms supplier throughout the history—including colonial days and after—had decided, when a civil war broke out, that that was the moment to stop supplying arms, it would not have been a move towards neutrality, it would have been a hostile act towards a Commonwealth country.

Surely the Prime Minister will correct the record in so far as, after the Commonwealth Conference, he said that the Biafrans were not prepared to negotiate? Is it not perfectly clear now from Press communications from Biafra that they are prepared to negotiate?

I am glad that the right hon. Gentleman has given me that opportunity. It is the case that they have said that they are prepared to negotiate, although they have laid down their own very stringent terms, namely, prior recognition of their nationhood, as they call it. What I said last week—and I am glad to have this chance to correct it—was when I was trying to refer to the position in the week of the Commonwealth Prime Ministers' Conference, when they refused to meet unconditionally with Chief Awolowo. What I said certainly gave the wrong impression, and I am glad to have the chance of making it clear.

Can my right hon. Friend tell us whether he has had an opportunity of looking into the question of the use of "Enugu Palm" by the Federal Nigerian Government for the transportation of Federal troops from Lagos to Port Harcourt? Would he say whether the Government intend to make quite clear to the Nigerian Federal Government that the requisitioning of our ships in this way should not be carried through?

I have had an opportunity of studying this matter and, as my hon. Friend knows, my right hon. Friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary has been into it very thoroughly. I fully support the answer which my right hon. Friend has sent to my hon. Friend.

asked the Prime Minister when he plans to meet the President of the United States of America.

asked the Prime Minister when he proposes to meet President Nixon to discuss the Vietnam issue and other problems threatening world peace.

I have nothing at present to add to what I said in reply to Questions by the hon. Member for Worcestershire, South (Sir G. Nabarro) on 21st January, and the hon. Members for Banbury (Mr. Marten) and mid-Bedfordshire (Mr. Hastings) on 23rd January.—[Vol. 776; c. 633.]

In view of the sober remarks by the President of the United States about the significance of the Middle East crisis for world peace, can my right hon. Friend assure us that Britain stands by her position, as declared in the November, 1967, resolution, and that we will argue to the United States that, to find a solution, it is absolutely essential to understand the position of both sides?

Yes, Sir. It is certainly the case that we stand fully behind, and have always stood fully behind, the resolution which we moved in the Security Council in November, 1967. All the efforts of my right hon. Friend and, indeed, of the whole Government, have been directed to securing that the resolution is accepted by all concerned and that, through the leadership of the Jarring Mission, it becomes a reality on the lines which we have always indicated. There is no need to wait for any Ministerial or any other Government meeting on this, because we have our continuing contacts with the United Nations generally on this question.

Is the Prime Minister aware that, at his very first Press conference, the President of the United States inferred that there might be a possibility of arriving at a cease-fire and ending this ridiculous and unseemly war on the basis of the 1954 Agreements? If my right hon. Friend should be visiting the President, will he convey to him the desirability of getting back to this stage so that ballots can take the place of bullets?

The whole House will agree, and I am sure that my hon. Friend will, that the most helpful means of achieving a cease-fire and a permanent, honourable and lasting settlement, must rest on the negotiations which have now actively begun in Paris, and the wishes for success of everyone in this House will go to those conducting negotiations.

May I ask the Prime Minister, arising out of Question No. 5, whether he is free to ask the President if he would care to visit us here?

Certainly, in any communication between two friendly countries, this could be proposed. One must, in all these matters, consult the convenience of a President who has just taken office, who has a great deal of work to do and a great deal of machinery to establish in his conduct of Government business, before putting on a President the difficulties of such an invitation, the difficulties of leaving his own country. He must be free to decide about it. He knows, as his predecessor knew, that a visit by the President of the United States—himself or his predecessor—would always be very welcome in this country.

Does the right hon. Gentleman really think that it is a matter of urgency for him to visit the United States? Is this not becoming rather a matter of form, that British Prime Ministers must always be going over to Washington? Having regard to the last question from this side of the House, and bearing in mind the successive visits by the Head of the State here, and the Heads of Government here, would it not be very nice if we could welcome President Nixon to this country?

It would be very nice, indeed. The practice which has been followed, by myself and my two predecessors, and, indeed, earlier than that, has been for regular and frequent visits and discussions. On a number of occasions, these meetings take place outside either Britain or the United States. Of my last four discussions with President Johnson, two took place outside the United States or Britain, one in Australia and one in Germany. The convenience of all concerned must be sought in making the appropriate arrangements.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that many of us think it is urgent that he sees the President of the United States? Is he aware that, although we understand that he must discuss the very important matters of Vietnam and the Middle East, there is also the urgent matter of monetary reform, on which the American Administration appear now to be formulating policy? Will he be sure to stress how important it is for us and for them that this period of calm that we have should not be taken to be a solution to the problem?

The matters for discussion between the British Government and the new American Government are not one or two or three, but very many. This will be done at the proper time. As to the monetary question. I am satisfied that there are adequate arrangements, adequate machinery, for discussions between Britain and the United States and, indeed, between Britain and all our partners in trying to get whatever improvements may be needed into the world monetary situation. Of course, I should be happy to discuss that, among other things, with President Nixon, but I have no reason to think that the Americans are not fully aware of the views of Her Majesty's Government, and the House as a whole, on these matters.

asked the Prime Minister if, in view of the major rôle now being undertaken by the National Economic Development Council in the preparation of the new National Plan, he will abolish the Department of Economic Affairs.

The draft planning document which has been discussed in the National Economic Development Council was prepared by the Department of Economic Affairs in close consultation with other Government departments and with the National Economic Development Office. On the future of the Department of Economic Affairs, I would refer to what I said in the debate on the Fulton Report on 21st November.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his obvious reluctance to give an affirmative answer to this Question leaves us with the uneasy suspicion that he regards the Department of Economic Affairs as one of the success stories of the Labour Government?

The hon. Gentleman obviously has not studied what I said in the debate on the Fulton Report. There was no reluctance to give an answer. I gave an answer at some considerable length on this. I understand from the hon. Gentleman's pronunciamento and his support of a certain right hon. Gentleman, whom we do not often see on his side of the House, that he is so opposed to all economic planning, even to the intervention which was undertaken by the previous Conservative Government, that I would naturally not expect him to appreciate the virtues of the Department of Economic Affairs.

Has my right hon. Friend's attention been drawn to the recent speech made by Mr. Catherwood, the Director-General of N.E.D.C, to the effect that company mergers can be highly damaging to the interests of the British economy? Should not the D.E.A. look into this matter and prepare a White Paper on the Government's attitude to company mergers?

My hon. Friend will recognise that I am not responsible for the speeches of Mr. Catherwood. I have a great respect for them, but I think that it is very important, equally, that I should respect his independence as a servant of N.E.D.C. and not as an officer of the Government. He is, therefore, free to make these pronouncements. He is, nevertheless, absolutely right to say that individual mergers can either be very good or very bad or can have neutral effects. [Interruption.] I knew that the hon. Member for whatever Northern Ireland constituency it is would not understand that one. It was too intellectual for him.

Cheap.

It has been the whole policy of successive Governments right from the introduction of the monopolies legislation in 1948 that mergers can be good or bad and that we need machinery for examining possible harm arising from the creation of monopoly power. We are certainly not saying that all are good or that all are bad. We say that some have to be examined.

Reverting to the Question, is it not true that there are now at least nine Departments and agencies involving themselves in the Government's economic and industrial policy? Is it not time that studies were made of the functions of all these bodies, with a view to increasing the efficiency, or at least reducing the inefficiency, of the present Government?

These matters have been reviewed very carefully. These bodies have important functions to perform. The hon. Gentleman will know the number of mergers and the number of reductions of Ministries which have taken place under the present Government, including some in the economics sphere which we have wound up.