asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received from local authorities about British Standard Time.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many representations he has received to date against British Standard Time; and what replies he has sent.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many representations he has received from official bodies in Scotland in favour of the results of introducing British Standard Time since October 1968.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received to date from local authorities and other interested bodies about the operation of British Standard Time; and what reply he has sent.

Since 27th October, 1968, when the Act came into force, I have received representations against British Standard Time from 23 local authorities, 13 other representative organisations and 28 private individuals. In addition, one hon. Member has sent me a petition signed by a number of his constituents; and one newspaper editor has forwarded to me a number of protests from his readers. All these representations have been, or are being, acknowledged, but no other reply has been sent except where information was specifically requested. No representations in favour of British Standard Time have been received officially since that date.

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that there are clear indications that the vast majority of the people of Scotland are fed up with these long dark mornings? How does he intend to assess the degree of misery and frustration of these people?

We are trying to assess the situation first of all on the basis of this winter and then in the full review in 1970. Hon. Members opposite really must not exaggerate. Some of the recent figures, for example, suggest that B.S.T. is having precisely the opposite effect on the accident rate to that which some unthinking hysterical attacks have suggested.

When the Home Secretary went to Scotland he appeared to promise a review of the experiment at the end of the year, but he has retracted that promise since returning south of the Border. Will the hon. Gentleman take the Home Secretary by the scruff of the neck and take him back to Scotland?

This abuse is quite unwarranted. The hon. Gentleman knows that we are continually reviewing the situation and are assessing it again at the end of the winter. The full review still remains for 1970. There has been no change whatever in the programme.

If the hon. Gentleman thinks that there is no widespread disapproval of this move in Scotland, he must be terribly out of touch with opinion. Is he aware, for example, that in the Ayrshire County Council there has been a move to suspend education altogether for a month in winter in order to avoid the dark mornings? Does not that show what people think about this?

That is precisely what I meant when I referred to unthinking hysteria. All sorts of moves of this kind have been suggested, but no actual decision has been taken. Of course, there has been widespread discontent about darkness in the mornings, but I have to measure that against some of the facts which have been coming forward—for example, a 30 per cent. reduction in the death rate among children over the last two months. One must measure the facts against the irritation.

Is my hon. Friend aware that parents are petrified by the thought of the children going out in these dark mornings, for the simple reason that they do not know whether or not they have arrived at school until home time comes? It is because of this fear that demonstrations have taken place by parents and pupils in Coat-bridge against B.S.T. Will my hon. Friend bear their point of view in mind?

I am aware of the disquiet which exists. But there is no difference, basically, between not knowing now whether a child has been to school safely and not knowing in previous years. I agree that this has been added to by apprehensions of darkness, however, but I ask hon. Members to look to their own consciences in this matter and to wait until we see the end of the winter and the figures, which at present—and I put it no stronger—suggest the opposite result of what hon. Members claim.

Does not the hon. Gentleman recognise that the large majority of people in Scotland are opposed to B.S.T. because of the general nuisance it causes, besides the difficulties in such industries as agriculture and building?

I am aware that every change produces irritation. The hon. Gentleman should not only look at that aspect but should consider the facts as they unfold. It is interesting to note that at a recent meeting I had with a branch of the N.F.U. differing views emerged as to the effect of B.S.T. on agriculture. There is no reason for the assumption the hon. Gentleman has made. It seems, on the contrary, that a tendency towards approval is beginning to take place. [HON. MEMBERS: "Nonsense."] It is more verifiable than the nonsense coming from hon. Members opposite.

In view of the dark reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what arrangements he is making to assess the effects of British Standard Time in Scotland during the winter 1968–69.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will conduct a survey in Scotland of the effects of British Standard Time.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what study he has now made of the effect of British Standard Time in Scotland; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what machinery he plans to use in order to ascertain the opinions of people in Scotland about British Standard Time during the survey which the Government have undertaken to carry out.

The assessment to be made at the end of this winter will be on the basis of the information then available to the Government, including, in particular, information about road accidents. Unless this indicates a need for further inquiries or consultations, no other survey is envisaged until the spring of 1970, by which time we shall have had the experience of two winters on which to base a final judgment.

What useful point can there possibly be in having such a review if the Government obstinately refuse to consider any change before the end of the three-year period?

I still do not understand hon. Gentlemen opposite. They ask us to keep this under continual review. We say we will keep it under continual review. Then they complain when it is suggested that this action can take place. If the facts indicate that that kind of action should result from the survey in 1970, it will be taken. I should have thought that that would have been perfectly clear even to hon. Members opposite.

While accepting the importance of the road accident figures, may I ask the hon. Gentleman to bear in mind also the feelings of millions of ordinary people upon whose lives the Government have imposed this frightful irritation? Why cannot he give us an assurance that, if the survey is to be worth anything, he will introduce legislation to end this experiment, if the survey proves it to have been a failure?

I am continually being astonished. This situation should be equated against the facts, as, for example, that there has been a 13 per cent. decrease in accidents to children between 7 a.m. and 9 a.m. I must repeat that hon. Gentlemen opposite should look at their consciences when they try to stir up this kind of hysteria about this particular case. Let us look at the facts and examine the matter then.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that Scotland would respect him much more if he were to accept the realities of the situation and scrap this unnecessary tampering with time which is loathed throughout Scotland?

I am asked to look at the realities of the situation. I have been pleading with hon. Gentlemen opposite to look at the facts. Facts are realities—not the subjective impressions often created by hon. Members opposite.

While, of course, the decrease in the accident rate is something which we welcome very much indeed, is not this only one of the many important factors, and what is the purpose of the survey if no action is to be taken till 1970?

As always, we get a little touch of realism from the hon. Gentleman, and I thank him for it. Of course it is only one of the facts. It happens to be the one fact about which there has been the most fuss made over the last few months. It is one we are taking into account, of course, in examining the matter, including the effects on the industry in which the hon. Member has a great interest.

Have there been any further representations from the Scottish T.U.C. and the Scottish C.B.I., two bodies which were in support of the experiment?

No. I have had no such further representations, but my hon. Friend is perfectly right to draw attention to the fact that two important and significant bodies in Scotland approved of this decision.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has considered the Hibbs Report, a copy of which has been sent to him, on the Waverley railway route in relation to the economic future of the Borders; and what action he proposes to take.

I have nothing to add to the reply which I gave to the hon. Member for Roxburgh, Selkirk and Peebles (Mr. David Steel) on 18th December.—[Vol. 775, c. 395.]

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that this valuable Report highlights the importance of communications in the Borders? What immediate steps will he take to improve the roads to Newcastleton and the main A.7 from Hawick to Langholm and the South?

As the hon. Gentleman knows, priorities in respect of many of these roads come within the purview of the local authorities concerned, and they are taking all necessary action. One thing the Report brought out was that the rather hysterical protests which went on and on about this were not really justified in relation to the effect which it would have upon the economic and social life of the communities concerned.

As good communications are essential in the successful redevelopment of any region, will not the closure of the line detract much from the good of the enormous investment grants which are being pumped into the country?

No, Sir. It is interesting to note that in other parts of this particular area where investment grants are being taken up, and where there is no rail communication, there has been no deleterious effect.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is his latest estimate of the capital cost of the Hunterston B nuclear power station, including the initial fuel charge and of the cost per unit sent out after allowing for interest during construction.

There has been no significant change from the figures which were given in reply to Questions from my hon. Friend on 22nd January, 1968, and 26th June, 1968. Interest during construction, estimated at £15 million, was allowed for in the estimated unit cost.—[Vol. 757, c. 52; Vol. 767, c. 84.]

Is my hon. Friend aware that the miners have consistently argued that the country has been deceived into thinking that the coal industry had to contract because coal was too dear? Before he refers to previous Answers, will he agree that, on the basis of costs and other facts before the House, the case is made for an independent investigation into the cost of alternative fuels?

I sympathise with my hon. Friend, but I do not accept that assertion. We have tried very hard in Questions to meet every factual point which he has endeavoured to make, for example, on the unit costs which we calculated according to the ground rules specified in my hon. Friend's Question of 22nd January, assuming a long-term interest rate of 7½ per cent. I am willing to revise the figures if he wishes to argue the case on an 8 per cent. long-term rate and puts a Question down to that effect.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement arising from the Freeman-Fox Transportation Study commissioned by his Department with particular reference to the county of Midlothian.

I understand that the consultants will be meeting separately each of the authorities which sponsored the study, including Midlothian County Council, to explain the implications of their Report for its area. Thereafter, the Report will require study by all those concerned.

Has my right hon. Friend been able to assess the reception which the Report has had generally in Scotland? Second, has he any information on any representation made from my constituency about certain aspects of the Report about which there seems to be some dispute?

There is no doubt that the Report has attracted considerable interest, and many aspects been welcomed, although there have been questions about other aspects in relation to the Esk Valley and so on. It is too early yet to say more; we still have to have the comments of the local authorities concerned before we further our discussions about it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland, whether he will now make a statement regarding current proposals submitted to him for industrialisation on the Clyde.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland (1) which local authorities are giving financial support for the study being presently undertaken of industrial developments in the Clyde Estuary area;

The local authorities included in the group which commissioned the Clyde Estuary Development Study were the county councils of Argyll, Ayr, Bute, Dunbarton and Renfrew, and the town councils of Dumbarton, Greenock and Port Glasgow, all of which contributed to its cost. I would like to express my appreciation of the group's initiative in commissioning this study and publishing the report.

Will the right hon. Gentleman ensure that, when the time comes, due consideration is given to the relative merits of a site in the Upper Clyde, where development would be possible on a larger and more worthwhile scale?

I have to be careful about this. I am sure that any inquiry which takes place will consider all the relevant suggestions made. Eventually, the matter will come to me, and I do not want to come down on one side or the other at this stage.

Since this concept involves so many authorities, does my right hon. Friend agree that we have not the planning machinery on a sub-regional basis adequate to look at the problem? Will he make the public inquiry as wide as possible, not excluding the possibility of re-examining the Erskine township proposal which will entail such a heavy burden in Glasgow?

We must bear in mind that in this case we got together all the local authorities concerned for the first time. The nature of the report and the interest which has been aroused by it are an indication of the value of that. I should certainly like to see it taken much further.

Has the right hon. Gentleman received any proposals submitted by the newly nationalised steel industry? If not, has he aproached that industry to ensure that the valuable asset of deep water in the Clyde Estuary is fully used at a time when the world trend is towards even larger bulk shipping?

That is one of the relevant possibilities touched on by the Report. I have no such proposal before me. The only one which needs decision in respect of inquiry is the one I mentioned, the Murco application.

I compliment my right hon. Friend on the work which he has instituted or assisted forward here, but will he bear in mind that any large-scale development on the estuary of the Clyde will have considerable implications further up the river? Will he see to it that authorities such as, for example, those in Lanarkshire are brought into any planning which may be done in this connection?

Yes, Sir. Advance copies of the report were sent to the Clyde Valley planning authority, and that authority will be given the opportunity to participate in consultation concerned with the general follow-up.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the average rent for council houses in Scotland; and by how much it is lower than the economic rent as a result of subsidies from the Treasury or the rates.

In 1966–67, the last year for which the information is at present available, rents averaged about £45, and the Government and rate fund contributions about £70.

With this indiscriminate help on such a large scale, how does the hon. Gentleman expect to bring private house building up to the same level as in England and Wales? Would it not be better if he adopted the famous Socialist principle—"From each according to his ability"—in the payment of rent?

"And to each according to his need." [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] we are all Socialists now. It is important that we have a rent rebate system, and the Government are seeking to encourage this with the local authorities, going hand in hand with reasonable rents as well. The hon. Gentleman will be interested to know that the £70 divides itself into £28 and £42—£28 from subsidy and £42 from the rates. He will know also that the local authority associations in Scotland are being consulted about the long-term principles for fixing local authority rents which were suggested in the Report of the Prices and Incomes Board.

Is my hon. Friend aware that this continual denigration of council house tenants and criticisms about the rents they pay is not a good thing for Scotland, and that while we recognise that we want reasonable rents, we must remember that owner-occupiers buying houses are receiving far more by way of relief from Income Tax than council tenants do in subsidy?

Yes.

Will the Minister bear in mind that the rents of houses of which the Secretary of State is the landlord—through the Scottish Special Housing Association and the New Town Corporations—are on the high side, and higher than local authority ones?

I do not think the hon. Member is quite right in saying that the Secretary of State is the landlord. The Scottish Special Housing Association and the Development Corporations are the landlords.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland, in view of the doubt as to the ultimate need for a wider Great Western Road in Glasgow, if he will advance funds so that the Clyde and Kelvindale Expressways may be constructed first and subsequently decide on the necessity of any alteration to the Great Western Road.

No, Sir. I accept the corporation's view that the prior need is for the completion of Great Western Road as a dual-carriageway route.

Is it right for the hon. Gentleman to wash his hands in this way of a matter of this importance and shelter behind the corporation when, without the money he is providing, nothing would be done? In view of the unique nature of this road going through a highly populous district of great amenity, would he not consider building roads on either side in the hope that, once they are built, it will not be necessary to spoil this road?

I have looked most earnestly into this matter, and, of course, I see the hon. Gentleman's concern, and I share it, about the actual route itself, and also about the trees, in particular. I am sure the corporation will do everything possible to make sure that, with the improvements, amenities are preserved, and as many of the trees as possible. We looked into the question of the alternatives. The early improvement of Great Western Road is required for the increased flows of traffic from the north and west flanks of the Inner Ring Road. All the engineering advice given to us, both Departmentally and from the corporation, is that we must proceed with this road.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what plans he has to reform the divorce law in Scotland in view of the present proposals for England and Wales and the recommendation of the Scottish Law Commission.

As I told the hon. Member for Glasgow, Pollok (Mr. Wright) on 21st January, while this has never been thought a suitable subject for Government legislation, I am willing to consider a request for drafting assistance should an hon. Member come forward with a Bill on lines which appear likely to be generally acceptable.—[Vol. 776, c. 95.]

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask him if he will not agree that it is highly unsatisfactory that so important a matter should be left to the lottery of the Ballot for Private Members' Bills? In view of the declared expression of opinion made by the Law Commission and of the fact that the English Bill recently before the House received its Second Reading in terms of Scottish votes cast, could my right hon. Friend not go a little bit further and say he will use his influence to try to get time for any such Private Member's attempt?

No, I do not think so. In this respect, we are following tradition, and I think, on reflection, it is a fairly wise tradition.

If the General Assembly in the coming May endorses the recommendation of its committee, and falls into line with the Bill going through the House for England and Wales, and in view of the Law Commission's opinion, surely, in those circumstances, the Secretary of State must accept that it would be entirely wrong to leave our divorce law unreformed, simply to await the chance of a Private Member's success in the Ballot in some future year?

I am glad that the hon. Member raised that question. The report before the Assembly at its last meeting was something which many of us would hesitate to legislate for, and he must know that the Assembly sent it back to the Presbyteries and that Edinburgh and Glasgow, which are the only two to have considered it, have thrown it out. So we had better wait and see what the Church of Scotland decides.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what increase there has been in the number of pupils in private schools in Scotland from 1964 to date.

The number of pupils in independent schools dropped by some 400 between January 1964 and January 1968. Figures for 1969 are not yet available.

Does that Answer rebut the claims which have been often made that this party is doctrinaire in its approach to the private sector, and will my right hon. Friend keep under review this sector of the grant-aided schools?

The figures I have quoted do not include the grant-aided schools, which are not normally included in the private sector as such. There are figures increased slightly, but my hon. Friend will know that grant-aided schools, as well as independent schools, are now before the Public Schools Commission.

Will the hon. Gentleman give an assurance to the House that he will defend to the uttermost the principle of freedom of choice in education?

I think we have argued this at very considerable length. [HON. MEMBERS: "Answer."] The answer is, "Yes". [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] But there is a difference of opinion, I think, between the hon. Gentleman and myself as to what, in fact, freedom of choice means, particularly in the State sector of education.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will take steps to deal with the increase in the costs of legal aid.

As regards criminal legal aid, I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given by my right hon. Friend on 29th November, 1968, to a Question by the hon. Member for Edinburgh, South (Mr. Clark Hutchison). The main purpose of the changes in procedure effected by the Act of Adjournal which came into operation on 2nd January is to contain the rising cost of the criminal legal aid scheme.

Will my hon. Friend say what is the degree of resistance among practising lawyers? Will he give the latest figure in terms of those lawyers who have refused to practise as an automatic reaction to the Act of Adjournal?

I presume that my hon. Friend is referring to the recent action by the members of the Glasgow Bar Association. I have great pleasure in telling the House that they have returned to the operation of the scale.

Has the Minister considered the reduction that would follow in the cost of civil legal aid if the Court of Session were abolished as a court of first instance, or, alternatively, if undefended divorce actions were remitted to the sheriff; and has it occurred to him that the number of lawyers per case would be reduced from three or four to one, with an obvious increased saving to the taxpayer who foots the bill?

I know the point which the hon. Lady is making, and this formed part of the work of the Committee which looked at sheriff courts. The Committee felt that the net saving along those lines would not be considerable, and it may very well have been right.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is now satisfied that the damaged roofs in Glasgow from the January 1968 gale will be wind and watertight in a permanent or semi-permanent fashion by 30th September, 1969; and if he will make a statement.

Of the 29,000 roofs which were damaged, 27,400 have had full repairs or repairs fully adequate for the winter. The remaining 1,600, all tenements, which so far have had only temporary repair, are being fully maintained by mobile repair squads under the control of the corporation. Some of the 1,600 are scheduled for early demolition; the corporation should be able to ensure that the rest have fully adequate repairs quite soon.

I thank my hon. Friend for his excellent answer. Will he agree that after last Thursday's storm and the small number of complaints received, the work repair force in Glasgow has earned the gratitude of the people of Scotland?

I am much obliged to my hon. Friend. I certainly endorse what he said about the men who worked so hard on this.

What grounds can the Minister give us for believing that his forecast on this occasion will be accurate?

It depends upon the nature of the roofs that remain. The general state of dilapidation of these roofs is something which has to be seen to be believed. The hon. Gentleman should see it for himself.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will seek to amend the Prices and Incomes Act, 1968, so as to bring the rents of new local authority houses within the control provisions of the Act.

For its duration the Prices and Incomes Act empowers my right hon. Friend to limit increases in rents of existing houses. The fixing of rents for new local authority houses, which raises different issues, must remain the sole responsibility of these authorities, but I expect them to exercise moderation in present circumstances.

Will my hon. Friend not recognise how grossly unfair it is that tenants of new local authority houses now coming into occupation, where rents are fixed much higher than for older houses, have no protection under the Prices and Incomes Act, whereas tenants of older houses have such protection. What is he prepared to do about it?

My hon. Friend may recall that Section 10 deals not with the control of rents but with the control of increases. Our efforts to get adequate rent rebate schemes are beginning to show fruit, and I hope that hon. Members on both sides will help us in persuading local authorities to adopt rebate schemes.

Will the Minister agree that, since in 1967 rents in England averaged about 35s. 8d. as compared with 18s. 4d. in Scotland, the Scottish ratepayer is bearing a disproportionately high burden of local authority expenditure?

There are differences between Scotland and England in industry as well as in housing. The point made by the hon. Gentleman is a perfectly fair one in contrasting the two countries, but whether or not one can assume that Scottish wages are the same as English wages is another matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what action he proposes to take to give to caravan dwellers similar protection to that which the Rent Act gives to the occupiers of houses.

I have no evidence at present to suggest that any special action is required. If my hon. Friend has any particular cases in mind, I shall be happy to consider them.

Is my hon. Friend not aware that, owing to the shortage of houses in Scotland many people are occupying caravans, thus helping themselves instead of imposing a burden on the local authority? These people have been living in caravans for long periods; does he not think that they should have rent protection?

We have discussed this with the local authorities, and the consensus of view among the local authority associations is that legislation is not needed. Indeed the Association of County Councils has argued with us that giving protection to residential caravan sites might tend to perpetuate their existence when the real answer, they aver, is to provide permanent houses for the occupants of caravans.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects Professor Gaskin's Report on North-East Scotland to be published.

In three to four months from now.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that information. As I am sure that he accepts the importance of this Report to North-East Scotland, will he use the very considerable influence of his Department to ensure that no further blows to the structure of industry in the North-East, comparable to the one just suffered by Inverurie, take place before the Report is published and future plans based on its recommendations are made?

I cannot see such a blow falling within the time scale which I have mentioned, and I should hope that it will not. I have now received the Report and we will waste no time in considering the advice contained in it; it is a very lengthy document.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether the recommendations in the Report will receive financial backing from the Government?

We had better wait to see what the Report says.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the total cost of housing subsidies; what estimate he has made of the effect on the average council house rent of their abolition; what proposals he has received advocating such a course; and what reply he has sent.

The cost of Government subsidies for local authority houses is of the order of £20 million a year, equivalent on average to some 10s. per house per week. We have received no proposals for abolishing these subsidies.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the Leader of the Opposition and other right hon. Gentlemen opposite have made a proposal of this sort, and that if all subsidies are abolished the answer to Question No. 6 would indicate that that would mean an average increase in the rent of 30s. a week? Will he resist this kind of proposition?

In reply to the last part of the Question, Yes, Sir. If my hon. Friend recollects the earlier answers to Questions, he will find that £42 plus £28 would then be transferred on to the existing rent of £45.

Does the Minister recognise that his hon. Friend has got the views of the Leader of the Opposition completely wrong on this? He has, for example, completely neglected the question of rent rebate schemes, and has not the Secretary of State authorised considerable increases in rents for the Scottish Special Housing Association and the new towns?

These are governed by the Prices and Incomes Act, and many authorities, particularly Conservative authorities, would like to impose substantially heavier increases. It would be useful if the Leader of the Opposition could make up his mind what he means about abolishing housing subsidies.

Is the Minister aware that the leader of the Leader of the Opposition, the right hon. Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Mr. Powell) has come out for abolition of housing subsidies, and where the leader leads the rest follow?

I have no doubt that when the Leader of the Opposition again visits the Midlands he will probably adopt this as a new policy.

Is there not a lot of hot air about this, and cannot be agree on all sides of the House that we want those people who can afford to pay an economic rent to pay an economic rent, and those people who cannot afford to pay an economic rent to get a rebate?

When the hon. Gentleman was in the Scottish Office he regarded this as a hot potato; he is the one who is responsible for most of the hot air on the subject.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when it is expected to make a start on the construction of the Fife regional road linking the Forth and Tay Road Bridges.

The proposals for an East Fife road linking the Forth Bridge to the Kirkcaldy area are not yet finalised. It will be included within the roads programme for the 1970's, but it is too early to assign a starting date on its priority in relation to other schemes in Scotland.

Does my right hon. Friend recognise that if the East of Scotland is to be developed, particularly the part between the Tay and the Forth, this road scheme must be treated with much greater urgency than hitherto? Will he reconsider the order of priorities?

I do not think that we can reconsider just like that the order of priorities in this one part of Scotland without taking into account important schemes affecting other parts. My hon. Friend will be the first to appreciate that there are other places which merit consideration in respect of main road programmes.

Will the right hon. Gentleman not agree that the amount of traffic between the Kirkcaldy and Glenrothes area of Tayside merits the immediate making of the Kirkcaldy—Tay Bridge Road into a trunk road?

I do not think that it warrants it at the moment. The hon. Gentleman should appreciate that there may be differences of opinion even in his own area as to what should be the first priorities.

As this road would link two toll bridges, will the right hon. Gentleman give a straight answer to this question? Has he changed his mind on the indefensibility of charging tolls on bridges since the publication of the Labour Party booklet entitled "Signposts for Scotland"?

The hon. Gentleman is nothing if not persistent, but that has nothing to do with this Question.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if, in view of the inadequacy of the modernisation scheme of the Scottish Special Housing Association in Rosyth, he will instruct the Scottish Development Department to make a further grant to improve the quality of this modernisation.

I cannot accept my hon. Friend's opinion that the modernisation scheme is inadequate.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there is a great deal of dissatisfaction among the residents of Rosyth about the inferior quality of the modernisation being carried on at present? Is he further aware that I have information to the effect that the Scottish Development Department has given instructions for the programme to be slowed down and that much less money should be spent, even from the existing funds for the purpose, which are not yet exhausted?

I would not accept my hon. Friend's point about the scheme as a whole. We have authorised in principle expenditure of £829,000 on the scheme, which was taken over by the S.S.H.A. in 1963. While they cannot be completely modern houses, I think that it is agreed that the modernisation scheme is a good move. I am surprised at my hon. Friend's complaints. I looked into some three years ago, and I have had none since.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will consider the building of a new hospital in the Dunfermline and West Fife area to replace the present complex of separate units making up the hospital service in this area; and what action he proposes to take.

The building of a new district general hospital to serve Dunfermline and West Fife is accepted by all concerned as the long-term solution to the hospital needs of the area. It is not yet possible to say when the project is likely to find a place in the programme, and the existing facilities have therefore been improved and extended.

Is my hon. Friend aware that it is becoming increasingly apparent that a new general hospital is required to replace the several out-dated buildings making up the Dunfermline and West Fife hospital services? Would he not give favourable consideration to the possibility of putting this into the forthcoming quinquennial review?

It is agreed by everyone that we need a new district general hospital in this area, but I cannot say when this project can be fitted into the programme.

Has my hon. Friend taken into account medical evidence in the area, some of which suggests that lives are being lost because of this dichotomy of provision for the West Fife area? Will he give a firm undertaking that this provision will be in the next quinquennial review?

I am not quite sure what is the medical evidence to which my hon. Friend refers. If he cares to pass it on to me, I shall of course consider it. In the first instance, it is for the regional hospital board to determine the order of priority in a matter of this sort. There are many projects in the South Eastern Region which it has to consider in making that determination.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland by what machinery his Department will submit evidence to the proposed Commission on the Constitution and to its sub-committee on Scotland; and if he will make a statement.

It is customary for bodies of this kind to receive written and oral evidence from the Departments concerned, and I shall be ready to assist the Commission in any way I can.

Does the right hon. Gentleman expect to receive a request from the Commission before the end of this year? If so, will he be in a position by then to provide evidence?

I do not know when the Commission will invite such evidence. When it does, we shall be ready to provide it.

Will the Commission be in a position to compare public expenditure per 1,000 of the population in Scotland with public expenditure in the North-West of England? Is my right hon. Friend aware that many of the English regions would like public expenditure on the level which has been achieved in Scotland? Do we need a Constitutional Commission for the Northwest?

I think that it is quite sufficient to be Secretary of State for Scotland, without taking on responsibilities for the North-West. I am conscious of the fact that there are many regions in England who consider themselves very much neglected compared with expenditures and achievements by the Government in the direction of Scotland.

Will the Secretary of State assure the House that, whatever machinery is adopted, the evidence will be heard in public?

The conduct of its affairs is a matter for the Commission to determine.

In view of the squabbling self-contradictions in the Scottish National Party, even on its own constitution, will the machinery established allow the Commission to treat with due reserve any evidence alleged to represent the official policy of the Scottish National Party towards the United Kingdom Constitution?

I think that the quality of the members of the Commission will be such that they will be able to sift and assess the importance of any evidence given to them.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will seek to make the Council of the Scottish Special Housing Association an elected body.

No, Sir.

In these comparatively minor matters of taste and amenity such as the placing of caravans in gardens, could not the S.S.H.A. be more sensitive to the wishes of locally elected town councils?

It might, but it should be entitled to make judgments. Four of the members of the Council of the S.S.H.A. are serving members of local authorities, and a fifth is a man with distinguished local authority experience.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that I have received a complaint this morning from the honorary secretary of Broomhill Tenants' Association which goes back two years and is in respect of shortcomings of the same kind referred to by the hon. Member for West Lothian (Mr. Dalyell), carried out by the Scottish Special Housing Association? Why is this body so lacking in responsiveness to the wishes of its tenants? Is it that it may be suited for building houses, but not for managing them?

The hon. Gentleman is on a different point. However, if he will be good enough to let me see the letter, I will draw it to the attention of the S.S.H.A. I must emphasise, however, that the Council is set up to manage the affairs of the body, and, on the whole, it does it very well.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is satisfied on the extent to which small burghs were consulted by regional water boards before transitional financial arrangements were approved by him; and if he will make a statement.

The orders providing for transitional financial arrangements were made as a result of consultations between the Government and the local authorities concerned.

While the hon. Gentleman may be satisfied about the legalistic formalities under which consultations took place, will he not recognise that some local authorities in my constituency, such as Laurencekirk and Stonehaven councils, feel that his assurances about reasonable transitional arrangements were not fulfilled? Does he regard as reasonable a five-fold increase in water rates as a result of regionalisation?

I do not want to go into the views of those two local authorities. Every authority was consulted statutorily and, before the circulation of draft water orders, the Department held regional meetings to which every single constituent authority was invited. In addition, the authorities set up their own steering committees to consider various aspects of water regionalisation. My only comment on Laurencekirk is that perhaps its rate is inflated by the fact that it is not charging to the general rate as much of its water requisition as it is entitled to do, thus reducing expenditure reckonable for the rate support grant.

Will the hon. Gentleman not recognise that adequate transitional arrangements were not made in the case of the small burghs? Will he not agree that the recent position has justified fully the fears that we expressed during our debates on the Water Bill about the impact that it would have on water rates in the small burghs in Scotland?

The hon. Gentleman is guilty of a tremendously sweeping statement. There were 199 authorities involved. Because something like half a dozen are protesting about this, to say that that means that we have betrayed the small burghs is a piece of hyperbole.

Mr. Speaker, in view of the unsatisfactory nature of that Answer, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will take steps to remove the pit bings at Dumbreck Kilsyth and the bings at Cowie.

This is primarily a matter for Stirling County Council, and in May, 1968, my right hon. Friend approved in principle the council's proposals for clearing away these bings, with the help of 85 per cent. grants.

Is my hon. Friend not aware that, with the prevailing wind coming from the west, if the bings should ignite, smoke would be blown right into the town site and cause considerable deaths? Is it not dangerous for this bing to remain as it is? As responsibility is placed upon the Secretary of State for Scotland to see that bings are removed under the Town Planning Acts, will he put into operation his powers if the local authority will not puts its powers into operation?

I know that my hon. Friend is in a difficult position vis-à-vis his county council. There is no argument between the Government, the county council and my hon. Friend about whether these bings should be removed. However, the timing of their removal is a matter for the county council. As I have said, we have offered 85 per cent. clearance on them. I am aware of the Dumbreck bing in particular, and no doubt my hon. Friend has seen a copy of the Report from the N.C.B. that it should be removed by direct dumping, as that would take far less time.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I will seek the earliest opportunity to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what action has been taken by the Highlands and Islands Development Board to promote the industrial development of Caithness following the report of the working party on the Wick/Thurso area.

The Board is about to publish a synopsis of the Report, and I understand that its Chairman has recently written to my hon. Friend explaining how the Board is following it up.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I ask whether he recognises the continuing urgency of the need to underpin the economy of that area in view of the welcome industrial expansion of Inver-gordon further south? Has he given any thought to the possibility of establishing a permanent co-ordinating committee to press forward the industrial development of that area?

Yes. I am prepared to look at the last point. I think that something has been done locally between the Board and the local authorities. I am conscious of the concern in the area. It was for this reason that the Board and the local authorities got together to see what they could do about it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware of the shortage of geriatric beds in the city of Glasgow; and what action he proposes to increase the provision of such beds in the city.

The regional hospital board has since 1965 made available more than 700 additional geriatric beds for Glasgow—an increase of 60 per cent. There is still some shortage, but the Board hopes to provide more than 400 further new beds by the end of 1972, including some replacements. By then there should be enough hospital geriatric beds to meet the accepted standard.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. This is a very serious matter. There is still a long waiting list and it is to be hoped that these 300 to 400 beds will soon be available for the city of Glasgow.

I accept that. We started from a very bad position about four years ago. A good deal of improvement has been made, but some improvement is still to be made.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations have been made to him by the Educational Institute for Scotland, Senior Secondary Teachers Association and the Scottish Schoolmasters Association about a review of the General Teaching Council; what replies he has sent; and if he will make a statement.

I have received representations for an early review from the Scottish Schoolmasters Association and have replied to them in the sense indicated in my reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Scotstoun (Mr. Small) on 18th December.—[Vol. 775, c. 396–7.]

Once my right hon. Friend has representations from the E.I.S. and the S.S.T.A., will he consider an early review? Now that the dust has settled, will my right hon. Friend promise an early review and give a date?

I have already firmly stated that I am willing to have an early review. I did not mention anything about dust settling. I said as soon as it was considered desirable by the main bodies concerned. I stand by that.

Will the right hon. Gentleman recognise that we wish to be generally helpful in this situation? Will he accept that a large body of those teachers who have not registered would be encouraged to do so if, before long, he were in a position to announce that a review of the constitution and formation of the General Teaching Council would definitely be held within a stated period? Will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to keep in the closest touch with this aspect —

Order. Long questions mean fewer questions.

Perhaps I may just finish the question by asking the Secretary of State whether he will keep in touch with these bodies so that an agreed statement can be made at the earliest possible moment.

Yes. I think that I made the Government's position on this very clear when we debated it fully last week. The indications proved to be helpful in this respect. As far as I can see, the position is getting much calmer as days pass.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland in view of the steps taken by other countries to induce Scottish doctors to seek medical practice abroad, whether he is satisfied with the content of official information distributed to doctors; and if he will make a statement.

I have issued to senior students and recent graduates in medicine in Scotland a pamphlet on Career Guidance which outlines the opportunities available in the National Health Service and other public medical services in Great Britain. If my right hon. Friend has any further suggestions to make, I should be glad to consider them.

Is my hon. Friend aware that a great many doctors are being misled by the propaganda about the streets of Canada and elsewhere being paved with gold, only to find when they get there that they cannot see it for snow and ice? Would it not be advisable for some of the facts about conditions in Canada and elsewhere, where doctors go under a misapprehension, to be brought to the notice of Scottish doctors so that they are not misled?

I am not sure that it would be part of my function to indulge in anti-Canadian propaganda. We must make the National Health Service in this country as attractive as we can to our doctors, and that is what we are working very hard on at the moment.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that one of the best steps that he could take to make the National Health Service more attractive to doctors in Scotland is to ensure that the level of taxation imposed on them compares more favourably with the levels they receive in places like Canada?

I do not think that doctors are in any special position concerning taxation compared with other professions, or, indeed, with the rest of us.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps have been taken by his Department to advise doctors in Scotland about the proposals for reorganising the National Health Service and the opportunities this will give for the modern practice of medicine, in order to offset the steps taken by other countries to seek for recruits from Scotland for their medical services.

The Green Paper was widely publicised when it was issued in December, and the British Medical Association sent copies to all doctors in Scotland. In the further consultations now to take place, the potential benefits for medical practice will be fully discussed.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that general practitioners feel that the development on one side of the local authority services and on the other the diagnostic services of the hospitals is gradually squeezing them into a position where they are not able to practise medicine in the way that they would like? Will he ensure that as soon as possible general practitioners get an opportunity of access both to local authority facilities and to those of the hospitals?

I think that what we want to ensure in any reorganisation is that valuable, scarce and expensive skills are properly used. It is too early yet to say what kind of reception our Green Paper will have. But my right hon. Friend will remember that we preceded this with a certain amount of consultation, and I expect very informed discussions will arise.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many qualified and experienced teachers have been dismissed from teaching, and have received notice of dismissal, respectively, for failure to register with the General Teaching Council.

Education authorities have adopted motions for the dismissal of 404 teachers. Notices of motions for dismissal have been issued in respect of a further 105 teachers.

Is it not time that a stop was put to this disgraceful exercise here and now? Would the hon. Gentleman accept that there is not a child in Scotland whose schooling is worth sacrificing to enable him to save his face? Will he withdraw his regulation and release local authorities from an impossible position which is not of their choosing?

We have debated this matter many times. There is no question of saving the face of the Government or of anyone else. The matter has been made quite clear. I am glad to say that only last week there were another 399 registrations to the General Teaching Council. It seems that the number of teachers we are now dealing with is already coming down and will continue to come down. I hope, at the end of the day, that it will not be necessary for any teacher to lose his job. There is no reason why he should.

Will the hon. Gentleman give us the other side of the coin and tell us how many non-certificated teachers have already been dismissed from service?

A very large number, including 500 only last week.

Is it not unfair that some schools in Glasgow, as a result of dismissals, will have as many as a dozen classes on part-time education? Is this not a tragic situation for the children involved? Surely some action should be taken to avoid such a situation in any school.

The situation can easily be avoided by the teachers registering now. which is what they are doing.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will make a statement on the progress made since 1965 towards achieving the employment targets set in the Scottish Economy, Command Paper No. 2864.

I have nothing to add to the reply I gave the hon. Member on 4th December last.—[Vol. 774, c. 1502–3.]

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that there has been no progress but a total collapse of the policies expressed in the White Paper? Is he aware that in order to achieve the forecasts he needs to produce 90,000 extra new jobs in Scotland by next year, which is three times as many as are now in the pipeline? What is he doing to meet the target?

The hon. Gentleman is once again indulging in his usual aggressive hyperbole and ignoring all the facts and statements that have been made. We are in fact proceeding with the redevelopment and the growth of industry in Scotland at a far greater rate than ever the previous Administration did. Had we accepted the advice of the Leader of the Opposition, we would be spending less and providing fewer jobs.

Is the Secretary of State not forgetting that his record over the past four years is that he has achieved a net drop in the number of jobs at the rate of 7,000 a year? Does he not think that this is shameful compared with the net gain of 7,000 a year between 1960 and 1964?

In the last four years of the Government to which the hon. Gentleman is allied, although he was not here, the potential employment provided was 54,600 jobs. In our four years it is 84,300.

How does the Secretary of State explain that the trend over the last two years has been quite different from what he forecast in the White Paper referred to in the Question?

The trend has not been quite different—[HON. MEMBERS: "It has."] The hon. Gentleman should appreciate that he is trying to draw simple conclusions from a very complex situation.

Why does the right hon. Gentleman continue to ignore the simple fact that there are now fewer people in employment in Scotland than there were when he took office four years ago?

This is because the working population has decreased, due to there now being more old people, more students, and more youngsters at school. There are now 6,000 more full-time students than there were before.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that one factory in my constituency requires 300 female workers but cannot get them? Is my right hon. Friend aware that since we came to power the increase in the number of electronic industries in Lanarkshire as a whole has been astronomical? On behalf of my constituency I say, "Thank you".

I do not think there is the slightest doubt that the Scottish economy is stronger today than at any time under hon. Gentlemen opposite. If they were to look at the figures published in the Press this morning about the shipbuilding industry they would be able to talk about facts, rather than use their imagination.