asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will now consider plans for requiring students at universities and colleges of higher education to sign cheques for the full economic cost of their education, after the award of grants has been appropriately adjusted; and if he will take steps to make students more aware of the real cost to public funds of their education.

If, as the Question implies, awards were adjusted so that students paid no more than at present, I doubt whether the charging of an economic fee would meet my hon. Friend's point. I myself, and many other hon. Members, spoke of the cost of higher education in last week's debate on the universities and there will be much public discussion of the matter during the coming months.—[Vol. 776, c. 1341–1464.]

Many students have no conception of the real cost of the courses which they are doing. If the scheme implied in my question is unacceptable, has the Secretary of State an alternative?

Discussions are now going on about fees in universities, but even if a student were aware of the economic cost of his course, I doubt whether he would work any harder.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he has completed his studies of the potential use of surplus military equipment in school classes taking technical subjects; and if he will make a statement.

The study commissioned by the Schools Council has not yet been completed, and it would be premature to make a statement now.

Before the studies are completed, will special attention be given to the problems of distribution from centres such as Donnington, Edinburgh and elsewhere?

There are a great many difficulties about this, and I am aware of the special problems of Donnington. The problem is being looked into and I think that we can make some progress on it; I hope so, anyhow.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what steps he is taking to increase the facilities for training more educational psychologists.

The report of the working party under the chairmanship of Professor Summer-field on the work, qualifications, training and supply of educational psychologists was published last September and contains proposals for expanding training facilities among its recommendations. I am currently considering the comments of local authority associations and other professional bodies concerned on these recommendations.

I am much obliged to my hon. Friend for his reply. Will he bear in mind that there is a great need for educational psychologists, not only in the education service, but in special hospitals and in many sections of the prison service, and will he implement these proposals at the earliest opportunity?

I hope to make a further statement in the not-too-distant future. We have been operating hitherto on the target of the previous Underwood Committee, which recommended in 1955 that there should be one psychologist for just over every 20,000 schoolchildren. The Summerfield Report now recommends that this number should be doubled.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many nursery classes will be opened in Wolverhampton during the year 1969–70.

Three nursery schools and one nursery class—seven classes in all—will be provided in Wolverhampton under the first phase of the urban programme.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his reply, but does he not think that he is being a little unfair to Wolverhampton, which has such great needs and problems in this direction? Is he aware that, although I appreciate that Birmingham has many serious problems, too, Birmingham has received the lion's share of the West Midlands allocation under the urban aid programme? Will he look again at Wolverhampton's allocation to see if he can improve it?

Birmingham is by far the biggest city in that part of the country. But Wolverhampton will be getting all the seven classes in the first phase of the programme, and letters will be going out inviting bids for the second phase within the next few days.

Will my right hon. Friend acknowledge that the provision of nursery schools affects a wider area than the Midlands, and will he give comparative figures for the provision of nursery schools under this Administration and the previous Administration?

I am glad to do that in view of the speech of the Leader of the Opposition at the weekend. Over 150 classes formed by this Government are operating, which is about 150 more than under the Conservative Government. Under the first phase of the urban programme there will be another 191, and as I have said, in the next few days we shall be sending out letters asking for bids for the second phase.

asked the Secretay of State for Education and Science what was the total number of students who received grants from local education authorities in England and Wales in the years 1965, 1966 and 1967 for the purpose of taking a full-time course in drama at establishments specialising in such courses; what was the total cost in each year; and if he will set up an inquiry to discover the percentage of such students who later employed the skills they had acquired.

I regret that this information is not available, and I have no reason to think that an inquiry is needed.

Could my hon. Friend reconsider that Answer? Is she aware that there is no recognised qualification in drama, no certainty or even probability of employment, and that the waste of public money in this sphere is probably more than 50 per cent.?

It happens that I receive an annual report containing details of awards made by local education authorities. But I would require considerable evidence of need before I could ask the local authorities to add to their existing work.

Would my hon. Friend remedy her apparent ignorance about this position by reading the recent Report of the Estimates Committee which investigated the Arts Council? Is she not aware that there is tremendous unemployment in the theatre and that we are producing far too many students for the jobs available?

I am aware of evidence in this respect. But my hon. Friend the Member for Putney (Mr. Hugh Jenkins) asked me particularly to make an inquiry of 163 local education authorities, and I have pointed out that, at the present time, it would be unreasonable to ask them for the information.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many approvals for school building and improvements which had previously been given were withdrawn by him during the present year; and how many of these approvals related to primary and secondary schools, respectively.

The right hon. Gentleman doubtless has in mind the revision of the major programmes for 1968–70 which took place last year and which resulted in some projects previously authorised to start in those years, or earlier being deferred. I cannot say without special inquiry how many of these are still regarded as "live" projects but have not yet been reinstated in a major programme.

Now that the right hon. Gentleman has announced additional provision to cope with the proposed raising of the school leaving age, will not he give priority to those projects previously approved which he cancelled when he decided to defer the raising of the age?

I do not think that this would be an appropriate way of doing it. By the end of the last financial year, local authorities had built up a large backlog of work which had not been started in previous years. Some of it was no longer appropriate, so some would no longer find a place. The only sensible course was to wipe the slate clean. Last year, I introduced a three-stage system for authorising building projects: preliminary lists, the first year; planning lists, the second year; and starts lists, the third year. For the first time, this has brought sanity into the school building programme.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the decision to defer the school building programme and Circular 6/68 which followed caused great dislocation to local authorities? Has not my right hon. Friend a real point here? If I put down a Question to the right hon. Gentleman asking for details of the specific work involved, will I get a specific answer?

It is extremely difficult to get information on that specific point without a lot of labour and expense. I agree that it caused some temporary chaos, but, since then, the position has been very much better, and the school building programme is very much bigger. In fact, it is twice what it was when the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Handsworth (Sir E. Boyle) was Minister.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will compile, for use by local education authorities, a national scale for educational maintenance allowances on the model of that previously applying to the assessment of school meals; and if he will take steps to ensure that it is publicised.

Local education authorities have discretion in this matter and I would not seek to impose a national scale; but I hope that authorities will take account of present day needs in considering reviews of their scales.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for the final hope in his Answer, is he aware that there is such a diversity in scales and practice that sometimes even the headmasters do not know what goes on at the town hall and that confused parents simply give up? Many local authorities would welcome guidance.

I should be reluctant to give local authorities guidance. I am watching the position carefully. If the need arises, I will ask them for information about it. This is a matter which should be left to their discretion in view of the considerable local differences.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what figures are available to his Department for the number of schools in England and Wales where corporal punishment of pupils by other pupils is permitted; and if he will now withdraw recognition from schools where corporal punishment of pupil by pupil is permitted.

The answer to the first part of the Question is "None", and I will consider the second part.

Would my right hon. Friend not agree, however, that, whatever one may think generally about corporal punishment, there are considerable dangers of violence in this form of it, which tends, therefore, to be overvalued as a means of solving problems? Perhaps a look at right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite would remind him of the dangers of some forms of public school education.

As I have said before, I am against all forms of corporal punishment. I think that the beating of one boy by another is a particularly repugnant form of it, and I hope that it will disappear from our schools very quickly.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether, before drafting his intended legislation on educational reform, he will publish a Green Paper outlining the Government's proposals, in order to give an opportunity for the views of Members of the House and the public to be made known.

I intend to include in the current preparation of a new Education Bill suitable arrangements for allowing the widest possible expression of views on proposed changes in the law, and I shall bear in mind the hon. Member's suggestion.

I am grateful for that Answer, but will the right hon. Gentleman man bear in mind the great public interest in and ignorance of the Government's intentions? Will he remember particularly that, if the legislation is to include further steps to force the pace towards comprehensivisation, there will be strong opposition from a large section of the public?

I have written to 38 bodies—teachers, local authorities, and so on—concerned with education asking for preliminary views. This is pre-consultation. When it comes to putting down our views after considering theirs, I will consult them again and make it possible for the House and everyone else interested to consider our views very carefully.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether it is his policy in 1969 to continue his campaign to attract married women back into teaching.

There will be a continuing and valued place in the schools for married women returning to teaching, but I see no need for the present to continue advertising on a national scale, as the number of full-time teachers this year will increase by 15,000.

Will the Minister bear in mind that the temporary stoppage of this advertising has caused concern among teachers, in spite of the optimistic annoucements that he has made in recent months? In view of the psychological importance of it, will he undertake to resume advertising at the first possible opportunity?

I think that it is overstating the position to say that it has caused concern. It was never intended that advertising should be a permanent feature. We have tried to get it regarded as natural that married women teachers should return to teaching. I think that it is accepted now. If we feel that it is necessary to resume advertising, we shall do so.

Will my right hon. Friend accept that the changing conditions about making grants to mature students are acting as a disincentive to married women to take up teacher training? Is he further aware that, in Luton, these grants have been taken back from students retrospectively which means that, for this term, many are getting hardly any grant at all?

My hon. Friend is mistaken. The grants for mature students have been improved, not worsened. Some of our most valuable entrants to teaching are from the ranks of mature students.

Is the Minister aware that his Answer will be widely regarded as unsatisfactory and even disturbing, especially since married women returners stay in schools when they come back to teaching? Is he further aware that we on this side of the House will seek an occasion to debate this matter before very long?

I have no doubt that the right hon. Gentleman will try to make it cause concern, but I doubt whether it will. I want it to be regarded as natural for a married woman, once her children are sufficiently grown up, to return to teaching. I think that this is now accepted. We do not have to advertise to get it across. It has been got across already.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what machinery exists for co-ordination between his Department and the Secretary of State for Scotland and the Secretary of State for Wales in the use of the television media as an educational aid to schools.

The National Council for Educational Technology was set up in 1967 by the Secretaries of State for Education and Science and for Scotland. The Council which provides machinery for co-ordination of views about overall development of television for schools as a part of its concern with educational technology as a whole, draws its members from all parts of the United Kingdom. The H.M. Inspectors of Schools from Scotland, Wales and England are associated with the Council and also serve on advisory committees established by the broadcasting authorities.

I agree with my hon. Friend that a great deal of information has been provided on the subject, but will she not agree, in the light of practical experience, that further information should be given, providing details of systems that have proved both technically and economically satisfactory for use of the medium?

I agree, and I would add that south of the Border there is a great deal of interest taken in the Glasgow experiment in closed-circuit television. It may be that in this respect Glasgow is giving us all a lead.

Is the hon. Lady aware of the immense potential of television in Welsh schools as a Welsh language medium? Will she do everything in her power to ensure the most extensive use of television in schools in the Welsh language?

I am sure that my hon. Friend knows about the special Schools Broadcasting Council for Wales. I understand that a great deal of attention has been given to broadcasts in the Welsh language by that body.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what estimates he has now made of the percentage of children expected to continue full-time education beyond the age of 16 years, comparing the years 1967 and 1970.

In the academic year 1966–67 there were 202,400 pupils, aged 16 on 31st December, 1966, in schools and 36,800 full-time and sandwich students of the same age in grant-aided further education establishments, these were 29·9 and 54 per cent. of the age group. The corresponding percentages for the academic year 1969–70 are at present estimated at 35·7 and 6·4. The figures exclude students in independent further education establishments.

Does my right hon. Friend accept the implication of his reply, namely, that in future years we must spend a higher percentage of our gross national product on education? May I ask whether this is something that he has brought to the attention of his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer?

Yes, I have done that; and I hope that my hon. Friend and everyone else will face the consequences with me. It means either cutting down other expenditure in some way, or cutting down private consumption by means of higher taxation. There is no other way of doing it.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will amend the building code which governs the number of car parking places at colleges of further education.

Within the available resources additional car parking could be provided only at the expense of other aspects of the further education building programme. At present I do not think this would be right, but it does deserve further study.

I am grateful for the hon. Lady's consideration. Does she agree that students will still attend in their own cars and on motor cycles, as many of them do these days, and that they should find space within the colleges or they will affect local residents? Does she agree that in these days it is important that the justified demands of students should be considered seriously in this respect?

The hon. Gentleman is right, but it is more desirable to find student places than parking spaces for cars. If the hon. Gentleman can supply evidence of need concerning his own constituency and the colleges within it, we will be glad to look at it again.

On this occasion I support my Member of Parliament and ask the Minister whether she will look at the peculiar difficulties of Enfield College where something could be done without too much expense and without interfering with the educational grants?

As I assured my hon. Friend's Member of Parliament, I will be glad to look at any evidence of need.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will consider raising the ceiling level of private income, above which grants for mature students undergoing training at colleges of education suffer reductions pro rata.

At the last review of student grants, a further disregard of £100 of private income was allowed for widows and divorced or separated wives with one or more dependents.

Does the hon. Lady appreciate that the ceiling is still extremely low for some mature students who have sacrificed a quite appreciable standard of living to go into teaching? Does she appreciate that in some families the wife is prevented from working to support her husband who is under training, because of the £100 limit, and that they live on savings to make it up? Is not this an uneconomic way of maximising the use of resources?

Any man or woman who has had earnings above a certain level before coming into training is entitled to an additional allowance, as well as the one I have mentioned. If the hon. Gentleman has any particular case in mind I will look into it. But I would point out that our evidence is that hardship is less marked among mature students with other income than among students with no other income.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the ceiling has remained unchanged over the last decade? Will she, therefore, consider raising it in terms of the depreciation of the value of money?

I am not sure to which of the several ceilings my hon. Friend is referring. But, as I have pointed out, one ceiling has been doubled. However, he is right in saying that another has not been changed.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many presentations there were for "O" level examinations in England and Wales, shown as a percentage of the school populations, in the years 1962 to 1968, respectively; and in the same period what was the percentage of passes.

With permission, I will publish in the OFFICIAL REPORT figures for subject entries, the percentage of passes, and the number of candidates from schools, in the period 1962 to 1967. The figures show a steadily rising percentage of passes.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the introduction of comprehensive education has widened the gateway to educational opportunity for our children? Does he further agree that it is now a fact, not an assertion, that there has been a tremendous increase in the number of children making presentations for and obtaining passes in the "O" level certificate qualification?

I agree with my hon. Friend that the introduction of comprehensive schools throughout the country has made a dramatic change in the numbers of students who take the "O" and "A" level examinations. It will be one of the factors in the great explosion of demand for higher education in the early 1970s.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether there has been any significant change in the numbers taking "'O" levels as between the sciences and the arts?

I think that recently there has been a swing back, but we should like to see a bigger swing back.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if, in view of the continued unrest and disturbance in a number of universities, he will seek powers to control the staff and students at the universities, so as to enable work programmes to be carried on without interruption.

No, Sir. I should consider it inappropriate to control the universities centrally as the hon. Gentleman is suggesting.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that most people are sick and tired of the over-publicised antics of students at some universities? If universities are unable to exercise their own authority, surely someone should do it for them?

I expressed my views on this matter in the debate last week. Discipline in our universities must be left to the vice-chancellors. They must work out their own salvation. However, they are in no doubt about the feelings of right hon. and hon. Members at the present time.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that a good deal of the overpublicising is the fault of the media of mass communication which insist on concentrating on those few universities where there is this trouble? Does he agree that in the vast majority of universities this kind of thing is not occurring?

I agree about that. I said the other day that throughout most universities in the country a great deal of productive, worth-while discussion is going on as a result of the agreement between the vice-chancellors and the students last year, especially in my hon. Friend's university. I should like to see it continue. The trouble is being caused by a tiny minority of people who are not interested in redressing grievances or putting things right at all.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the strong and almost unanimous expression of view in this House on Wednesday last week will be of great help in reinforcing the position of university authorities?

Does my right hon. Friend agree that, as in the industrial sphere, there always has to be some Hash point which creates the problem and allows those who perhaps are way ahead of the others to take advantage of the situation? Does he agree that the best answer is to investigate thoroughly the problems of the students to eliminate their difficulties than to talk in terms of extra powers and action of that kind?

I think that this is being tried everywhere in the country. The director and governors of the L.S.E. have been willing to talk about grievances almost non-stop, and meetings are constantly held in the universities. As I have said, in most cases they are leading to great improvements in conditions and constitutions of universities, colleges and so on. But the fact remains that there is a tiny group of people who are not interested in putting grievances right.

Is it not a fact that virtually the whole House last week agreed that universities and their vice-chancellors have a duty and a responsibility to preserve law and order in an ordered academic community? Would it not be best for the House today just to reaffirm that expression of opinion?

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman. I was answering the point whether I should control the universities centrally. It would help me and the vice-chancellors a great deal if the right hon. Gentleman's right hon. Friend would come out firmly on this side.

Mr. Arnold Shaw, Question No. 19.

Mr. Speaker, this is an important matter. May I ask what the right hon. Gentleman means—

Order. I called the next Question. Mr. Arnold Shaw.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what plans he has to help expedite the reorganisation of secondary education in Redbridge.

I have included in the 1968–69 and 1969–70 school building programmes projects to a total value of £465,000 for the completion of a comprehensive upper school at Loxford Lane which will serve a large part of the South Ilford area. The main part of the authority's reorganisation plan depends upon substantial building and I have therefore asked them to examine the possibility of increasing the pace of development through the amalgamation of some pairs of existing schools.

While welcoming the steps that the Department has taken in bringing about reorganisation in Redbridge, may I ask my right hon. Friend whether he can tell me how it is possible to accept a scheme for reorganisation which, if implemented, would take at least 50 years and would certainly be roundly castigated, if accepted?

We looked at the scheme carefully, and it is a long-term one. Because of the layout of the schools in the area it involves a biggish building programme. This is why I have written to the local authority to ask whether it can make more use of existing schools. I hope that it can.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what estimate he has made of the number of children who do not attend secondary schools at all.

In January, 1968, about 26,000 children of compulsory school age for attendance at secondary schools were not in fact in school. The majority of these were children suffering from severe mental or physical handicaps who were in hospital or in training centres provided by local health authorities.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a growing amount of informed opinion thinks that many children are not attending school simply because their parents would rather they did not? Will the Minister carry out an investigation into this problem? It is thought that large schools make it very difficult to check who is attending school and who is not.

I do not know what the hon. Gentleman is talking about. If he gives me any evidence of that, I shall look into it.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what proposals he has received from the Portsmouth Education Authority for a comprehensive system of education in Portsmouth; and what reply he has sent.

My Department is now examining the proposals which the authority submitted on 8th January. I shall reach a decision on them as soon as possible.

As this scheme has been a long time in preparation, and as there is, inevitably, anxiety among parents, staff, and children, can my right hon. Friend assure the House that his Department will consider the proposals with the maximum possible speed?

Yes, Sir. I shall look at this as quickly as I can and let the authority have a decision as soon as possible.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will seek to withdraw the power of local education authorities to make university grants to the children of foreign nationals temporarily resident in the United Kingdom, where they choose to be educated in their home countries.

No duty award is payable in such a case, and this power is exercised entirely at the discretion of local authorities. I am sure they can be relied upon to use it sensibly.

Is the hon. Lady aware of something quite scandalous, namely, that a 19-year-old Italian girl, whose parents were temporarily resident in this country, was sent for a four-year course at Rome University, at the expense of the ratepayers of Bedfordshire? Is the hon. Lady further aware that the Director of Education said that they were required to pay for her education because she had the proper academic qualifications and had chosen to go to an accredited university? Is the hon. Lady satisfied that local authorities can be left with this power?

I am moved by the hon. Gentleman's concern for a county which is not his own, though it is his party's. I can only repeat that that county must have had representations made to it, presumably by Members of Parliament and councillors, and then changed its mind.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what studies his Department has made of the relationship between teacher productivity and the supply and renewal of books and other teaching equipment in the schools.

None, Sir.

Will the right hon. Gentleman reconsider that decision, since the provision of books and other equipment enables significant improvements in quality to be maintained in schools, and at the same time they are peculiarly vulnerable to the pressure on local education authorities to reduce their expenditure? Will the right hon. Gentleman ensure that they do not suffer undue cuts?

The Question relates to teacher productivity. If the hon. Gentleman will tell me how to measure it I shall look at it to see whether I can do anything about it.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what effects the limitations on local authority expenditure are having on teacher supply and employment, the engagement of part-time teachers, and the employment of newly qualified teachers; and if he will make a statement.

I have seen no effect on the employment of full-time qualified teachers, including the newly qualified. In terms of full-time equivalents, there were on 1st October, 1968, about 1,200 more part-timers than on 1st October, 1967. There has however been a slight reduction in the rate of recruitment. I cannot say how far this change is due to financial considerations and how far to employers' preference for full-timers, when available.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that these limitations on local government expenditure ought to be reviewed constantly to avoid the peradventure of their having a deleterious effect on other parts of my right hon. Friend's programme, namely, the recruitment of teachers, both part-time and straight from our colleges?

I agree with my hon. Friend. I think that this needs watching carefully, but I must point out what I pointed out before, that in negotiating the rate support grant for the coming two years we did not reduce the estimate of the number of teachers required by local authorities. We accepted their figures, and the money to employ that number of teachers was made available.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is the number of new teachers he estimates will emerge from universities and colleges of education in September; if these will meet the demands of local education authorities; and if he will make a statement.

I estimate that about 29,000 newly-trained teachers will be seeking first appointments in September in maintained primary and secondary schools. I expect this number to match fairly closely local education authorities' demands for additional teachers and to meet normal wastage.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many of the teaching organisations, National Union of Teachers, and so on, are apprehensive about the development of this aspect of his policy? Does not my right hon. Friend think it would be worth while holding a conference in the near future to examine the details of what might transpire in the future, to see that we do not make a grievous error?

There is to be a meeting on Monday next between my officials, the teachers, and the local authorities, on this and similar matters. Similar fears were expressed in 1968. In the event, in September last year there was no unemployment. What I am saying now is that if local authorities employ all the teachers they have said they will employ there will be no unemployment among teachers in September of this year, either.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science by what statutory process he intends to bring to an end the provision of free school dinners to families with four or more children.

By regulations made under Section 49 of the Education Act, 1944.

Does not the hon. Gentleman think it rather strange that this extraordinary mistake could have been brought in without being debated at all? Will the hon. Gentleman give us an assurance that we shall be able to debate the ending of this expensive and extravagant venture?

We have made no such mistake. We had a debate when we announced our change of policy. We are now consulting local authority associations about the regulations, and these regulations will be laid before the House in mid-March, or thereabouts, when we can debate them again.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will request local education authorities to make separate estimates of the costs of making changes in the supply of books in schools caused by the introduction of decimal currency.

I refer the hon. Member to my Answer to the hon. Member for Wycombe (Mr. John Hall) on 14th November.—[Vol. 773, c. 126.]

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many teachers think that the allocation of money for text books in the schools is too low, and are worried that when they have to teach the decimal system the rest of the grant for education may suffer becsause new text books will be required?

On the first point, I think that there are great inequalities in the provision between different authorities, and I should like to see the authorities themselves putting this right, as the Plowden Report suggested.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is the average amount spent by local education authorities per child per day in secondary schools on equipment; and how this compares with the amount of the subsidy per child per day in respect of school meals.

The amount for equipment is estimated at 10d. The subsidy for school meals is 1s. 1d. The former figure includes expenditure on library and text books, materials and stationery.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that children go to school to learn, and does not he agree that those parents who can afford to pay for their children at school should be encouraged to do so, and that more money should be allocated for equipment and books?

On the semantics of this, children go to school to be educated, and they have bodies as well as minds, and bodies are equally important. But I agree that there are great inequalities which ought to be ironed out.

asked the Secretary of Stale for Education and Science whether he will publish the Arts Council's reports on Opera and Ballet, and Theatre, respectively; and whether it is proposed to implement these reports.

Neither of these reports has yet been completed. It is for the Arts Council to decide whether to publish them, I understand it intends to do so.

Would not the right hon. Lady agree that there is widespread interest, as the Estimates Committee recently reported, in these reports? There has been considerable delay. Does not the right hon. Lady agree that it would be helpful to all concerned if we could get the reports through?

Yes, Sir. The opera and ballet inquiry has been going on for more than two years, but I am told that if we can be patient we shall have the report in two months. The other has been going on for more than a year. It is a complicated and difficult matter, and I am told that the report is likely to be issued about the middle of this year.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that despite all her efforts an unduly high percentage of public money spent on the arts is still spent in the London area? Can my right hon. Friend do a little more to encourage spending on the arts in areas like the North-West?

I hope that all my colleagues are listening, because although I do not think that too much is being spent in the London area, I should be grateful for any additions from any direction to increase other spending.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he proposes to implement the Arts Council's Report on Public Lending Right.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when he proposes to introduce legislation to give effect to the public lending right proposals for authors' royalties submitted to him by the Arts Council in 1967.

In a speech in September to the Annual Public Libraries Conference of the Library Association I suggested that the Association enter into a dialogue with the Arts Council about the proposed scheme, because the Library Association had been strongly critical. This it is now doing and the Arts Council is considering what further action might be taken.

Surely the implementation of this Report is a matter of ordinary justice to authors, who cannot make a living from writing because, although public libraries lend about 500 million volumes a year, they pay only for relatively very few of them. The author, unlike the composer, gets virtually no royalties from his work. Cannot the right hon. Lady expedite consideration of this matter?

I sympathise with what the hon. Gentleman says and I should like to see an honourable and fair solution to this, but the Library Association is strongly opposed to an overall "tax", which is not in the offing at all, and to dealing with this matter in any way which would involve all books in public libraries. There is a sharp conflict between the two views and I hope that they can be resolved or at least brought closer.

Is my right hon. Friend not aware that, without the public libraries buying books, many authors would have a very small sale? Should not the dialogue be conducted between the poor author and the wealthy publisher?

That is another point of view. All publishers are not wealthy and all authors are not poor.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when he expects to make a statement following his consideration of the recommendations of the Royal Commission on Medical Education for the establishment of further new medical schools.

In the reply I gave to my right hon. Friend on 5th December, I said that projects then in the university building programmes would raise the annual entry of pre-clinical students from under 2,700 in 1968 to 3,300 by 1975. Some additional places will be provided in the building programmes for 1970–71 and 1971–72, which will include the first phases of the rebuilding to greater size of the Leeds and Newcastle Schools. The establishment of further new schools will depend on decisions on manpower targets, which are being considered in the light of the Royal Commission's recommendations.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the Commission said that the ancient City of Kingston upon Hull fulfilled all the necessary criteria, in that it had a first-class university, a most modern hospital and an excellent teaching staff at the hospital, but that it lacked one curious factor, population? Why is it that, at this stage, we must have a population of half a million before we get a medical faculty? Other places do not need this, surely?

I think that Kingston upon Hull also has a good Member to add to its list of assets. The Royal Commission pointed out that some of the factors affecting the potentialities of Hull

"… will … not become clear for a number of years."

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he intends to implement the recommendations of the Reviewing Committee on the Export of Works of Art concerning the export of documents and manuscripts; and whether he will make a statement.

I am considering these recommendations carefully, but I am not yet in a position to make a statement. It is a very much more complex matter than appears at first sight.

Could I press the right hon. Lady to consider this matter urgently, since many people are concerned about the flow of British documents and manuscripts, particularly to American and German universities? Could she state the Government policy within the next few weeks?

I am giving this matter urgent consideration. On common sense grounds, it would seem that, if we cannot keep all the manuscripts in this country, we should at least keep copies for the benefit of our own scholars. That is what we would all like. However, I assure the hon. Gentleman that there are limits in a capitalist society to what one can do with private property in the lifetime of those who own the manuscripts. There are many different complications.

Would the right hon. Lady also consider the proposals of the Cottesloe Committee for a fund to safeguard the export of works of art?

Once again, we must draw a sensible division, as I have said several times, between maintaining London as a great international centre, and our desire to keep British treasures in our own country.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what representations he has received on the increases in the price of hire of sports and recreational facilities in the Greater London area; and whether he will make a statement.

I have received a number of complaints about increased charges for the hire of sports facilities provided by the Greater London Council both from Members of this House and from private individuals. The charges for such facilities in local authority parks is a matter for the discretion of local authorities.

Would my hon. Friend not agree that this increase in charges is likely to have a deleterious effect on sports in London, and that the reason why this Question is on the Order Paper is that I wrote to him about 18 months ago and, despite several verbal reminders since, have not had a reply? Is this good enough?

That cannot be quite right, since these charges were put up much less than 18 months ago. If there has been a delay, however, I am sorry about it and I will look into it.