asked the Secretary of State for Wales what representations he has received about the effects on small firms in Wales of the restriction on bank credit; and what action he proposes to take.

None, Sir. This is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Does my hon. Friend see any connection between the present difficulties of small firms in Wales and the proposals for a national bank, which some argue could lead to more flexible credit procedures.

The situation with regard to small firms is naturally one of the matters being taken into account by the Finance Panel of the Welsh Council during its current study of the availability of finance in Wales.

The hon. Gentleman will know that, with regard to the restriction of credit, the Bank of England issued a statement on 23rd May last year showing the various priorities for lending, which included agriculture. Why did it not include a reference to tourism? In view of the importance of tourism to the economy of Wales, will his right hon. Friend take this up with the Bank of England?

The importance of tourism is fully appreciated on this side of the House. That is why the Government have their very interesting and important new proposals about the establishment of a new Welsh Tourist Board. The assistance given to the Tourist Board is recognised, but I will take note of the hon. Gentleman's remarks and follow this up.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he will now give an estimate of the cost to public funds of the arrangements to bring Ambassadors and Commonwealth representatives to the Investiture of the Prince of Wales.

The cost to public funds of taking Ambassadors and Commonwealth representatives to the Investiture ceremony is likely to be about £4,000.

Would my right hon. Friend not agree that that is a very large sum of money? Is it within the allocation of £200,000 which I understand my right hon. Friend has set as the limit of the expenditure for the ceremony? Would he also say whether the coaches and trains which are bringing other so-called Welsh dignitaries to attend the ceremony are also to be paid for out of public funds?

The £4,000 is within the ceiling of the £200,000. I have the impression that if I said that the sum was £20 some people would say that it was too high a figure. This amount is quite realistic. As for the expenses of other people, I do not know of any special trains laid on for them.

Does the £200,000 include the cost of the wages of the hundreds of police who will be involved and the 2,500 soldiers and the crews of the naval vessels who will be there to add to the military nature of the occasion?

I understand the concern of the hon. Member, who is neutral about the Investiture—neither for it nor against it. The wages to which he refers will fall to be met by the responsible Departments.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many of the £5 5s. and £10 10s. seats at the Investiture at Caernarvon have been sold up to date; what steps he is taking to prevent speculation in the tickets; and how many have been allocated to old-age pensioners who were present at the last Investiture.

The seats to which my hon. Friend refers are those outside the Castle, which are on sale through the Wales Tourist Board. All the £5 5s. seats and 2,000 of the £10 10s. seats have been sold. It is a matter for those buying the seats to act responsibly to prevent any speculation. I have no information on how many of these seats have been sold to old-age pensioners.

But is my right hon. Friend aware that the old-age pensioners have a grievance since many of the 10-guinea seats have already been taken up by the unemployed? Would it not be a gracious act on his part to send a special invitation and a complimentary 10-guinea ticket to that very distinguished and popular old-age pensioner, the Duke of Windsor, who played such a prominent part in the last Investiture?

I am sure that the House and the people of Wales will be interested to know that my hon. Friend is now anxious to see that there is a good attendance at the Investiture.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that I asked him several months ago what special arrangements he would make for English Members of Parliament, myself included, who may wish to attend the Investiture, and in my case will wish to attend the Investiture with my wife? Will facilities be specially available for Members of the House of Commons?

It is understandable that, in view of the fact that the central figure of the Investiture is the Prince of Wales, whose superb broadcast the House, I know, will have apreciated, hon. Members should want to attend—[Interruption.] It was a superb broadcast; let hon. Members make as much noise as they like. Arrangements have been made through the usual channels for representatives from both sides of the House to attend. I advise the hon. Member, if he is still on speaking terms, to talk to his Chief Whip.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many letters and representations he has received calling for increased expenditure on the Investiture of the Prince of Wales.

I have received no such letters or representations.

In view of the statement that there is massive support for the Investiture in Wales, how does the Secretary of State explain that there is no offer of financial assistance? Is he aware that those in the licensed trade are opening the pubs for several hours? Does he think that they should come forward with a magnificent contribution?

Far be it from me to advocate the cause of the licensed trade, but, of course, its members are taking this action because they expect a very popular response. The reason why I have not had these letters, I am sure, is that the people of Wales have every confidence that we shall manage efficiently with a dignified and colourful ceremony within the figure arranged.

Will the right hon. Gentleman inform his hon. Friend the Member for South Ayrshire (Mr. Emrys Hughes) that if he bangs on much longer on this subject he will be in grave danger of being shut up in a dustbin?

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether, in view of the further increase in Bank Rate, he has considered the position of housing purchasers in Wales; what discussions he has had with building societies and local authorities; and what decisions he has reached.

My right hon. Friend has had no recent discussions with the building societies or local authorities on this subject; but both he and my right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Local Government maintain close contact with the Building Societies Association.

Will the Minister take account of the fact that local authorities such as Port Talbot, Ebbw Vale and Pontypridd are paying 8¾ per cent. interest to the Public Works Loan Board for money for house purchase and that the Principality Building Society has forecast the inevitability of an increase in interest rates by building societies? Is it not a fact that house purchasers in Wales, as elsewhere, face a very grim prospect in the months, and possibly years, ahead?

Our record in housing is a very proud one and does not indicate any difficulties. I should point out that house purchasers are being helped by the tax reliefs on what they pay.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what additional road improvements he will initiate to ensure better communications to the town and port of Barry.

The hon. Member will find a list of the major road improvement schemes being carried out or planned for the next few years in Appendix 2 of the Annual Report for 1968 (Cmnd. 3930). These include trunk road schemes which will, among other things, improve communications to Barry and other ports in South Wales.

In his consideration of this matter, will the Minister take account of the fact that delay in the environs of the Cardiff area is leading to serious expense for companies such as B.P. Chemicals, which says that it costs it many thousands of pounds a year to get through that area? Will he expedite schemes to ease the standstill in the industrial area of Cardiff?

We take note of the emphasis which the hon. Member has laid on what certainly is a very important matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what assistance was given by his Department in compiling the Green Paper The Task Ahead.

The Green Paper The Task Ahead was prepared by the Department of Economic Affairs, and the Welsh Office, in common with other Departments, assisted in its preparation.

Will the right hon. Gentleman recognise that in 1967 we had a publication called The Way Ahead and now we have The Task Ahead? When he produces one next year, will he call it The Change Ahead?

The hon. Member can do a lot better than that if he tries. The Task Ahead is the forecast for the United Kingdom. I know that he will have been pleased to note that in our Annual Report last week we were able to show that substantial gains are now coming forward for Wales.

Now that the Government have admitted in The Task Ahead that the reduction of regional disparities for which they hoped will be less evident in Wales, will the right hon. Gentleman admit also that the estimate in Wales, The Way Ahead of a shortfall of jobs in Wales was euphorically optimistic and that criticisms of the Government were right?

I always feel distressed when I have to give good news to the hon. Member because I know it upsets him, but the forecast in Wales, The Way Ahead was based on the prospects in the spring of 1967. Since then steps have been taken to improve the rate of industrial movement into Wales. I should have expected the hon. Member to say how glad he is that the rate has improved so considerably.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether further copies of the Colcon Survey Report on proposed routes for the A55 are now available and what representations he has received from local authorities and other bodies about the Report.

Further copies of the Report became available at the end of February and are being distributed to those who have requested them. My right hon. Friend has received the views of three local authorities, and the views of others are awaited. He has also had representations from other local bodies and individuals.

Is my hon. Friend aware that that news will be welcomed by local authorities which have had difficulty in finding copies for their members? What steps is his right hon. Friend likely to take in connection with the Report? Will he give an assurance that he will take into account the strong feeling in the Conway and Deganwy area that any new crossing of the Conway River should be inland south of the existing bridges?

My right hon. Friend will carefully analyse the views put to him before he decides on what further studies are necessary.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what was the overall trading position on all operations undertaken by the Forestry Commission in Wales in forest year 1968.

The accounts published in the Commission's Annual Report are for the whole of Great Britain. These do not show the trading results by countries, but I understand it is estimated that there was an overall deficit on the Forestry Commission's trading operations in Wales for the year ended 30th September, 1968.

The right hon. Gentleman did not tell us the figure. Recognising the importance of forestry to Wales, will he, with his specific responsibilities for forestry, tell us how many people in the Welsh Office are responsible for advising him about this? Does he not think it would be a good idea to have a debate on the forestry industry in Wales?

If a debate can be arranged, I, of course, would be delighted. I have enough people to advise me on forestry arrangements in Wales. If the hon. Member presses me, I will give him the exact figures later because I should not like to mislead the House by one. Perhaps that answers his question.

Can my right hon. Friend say in connection with the deficit he mentioned how much assistance was given to private woodland owners in Wales for research, felling and planting operations in the year he quoted?

Welcoming that "North Wales" accent, I will supply my hon. Friend with the information he seeks if he will be patient. I shall write to him.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what estimate his Department is making of the growth of drug taking among schoolchildren and young people; and what consultations he proposes to initiate, with a view to combating this trend.

Because of uncertainties of diagnosis and variations of incidence in different parts of the country, no general estimates can be made. The number of heroin addicts known to the Home Office under school-leaving age in the successive years 1964 to 1967 were 1, 8, 18 and 3 respectively

While this problem should not be exaggerated, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is aware of the growing anxiety among parents about the development of this evil trend which was non-existent and unimaginable only 10 years ago? What special steps have been taken in senior schools to stamp it out?

A great deal of activity is going on, including the publication of a new document entitled Health Education. There are also continual conferences between our medical officers and others. One should not be too optimistic, but the hon. Gentleman will be glad to know that in the last year to which I referred the increase seemed to have been arrested.

Can any advice be given to independent schools about this? Would not my right hon. Friend agree that the decision to expel five boys from St. Paul's School was a totally negative approach? Do not the parents of those boys have every right to expect something more constructive to be done?

I should not be called on to pronounce on a specific incident without having all the facts, and all the facts are not at my disposal.

What consultation is the right hon. Gentleman having with the Minister of Health about the provision of treatment centres for these children? Is he aware that in my constituency, and certainly in Buckinghamshire, there appear to be no facilities for treating these cases, certainly in the early stages of their development?

I answered a debate on this matter some time ago. It was made clear at that time that no addicts who should have treatment were not getting it; but I will make inquiries to see whether the position has changed.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is the latest British position in relation to participation in the 300 GeV C.E.R.N. accelerator.

I have nothing to add to the reply my right hon. Friend gave to my hon. Friend on 24th October last.—[Vol. 770, c. 328.]

Without wishing to press the matter too extravagantly, could not we work towards the position whereby British entry would be expected by the time of the cutting of the first sod in Geneva in 18 months' time, thereby enabling us to get in on the hardware?

I know my hon. Friend's interest in this subject. It is true that the draft revised C.E.R.N. Convention is lying on the table and allows for further participants to join later. To answer my hon. Friend's supplementary question about hardware, the Convention allows all countries to put in for contracts, though it makes it clear that they should be divided, as far as possible, among those which are participant countries.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what study he has made of an all-weather material as a surface for pitches, enabling schools to continue playing school foot-ball matches in adverse conditions, details of which have been sent to him; and what action he proposes to take.

The cost of the material in question is prohibitive for school use. All-weather alternatives to grass pitches which can be laid out at reasonable cost are described in Building Bulletin 28 Playing Fields and Hard Surface Areas, and my Department keeps itself informed about promising new developments.

What exactly is the policy towards both all-weather facilities and floodlit facilities in schools?

The policy of the Department is very much to encourage all-weather playing surfaces. I should like to see some part of all playing fields with all-weather facilities. We also favour a policy of floodlighting, particularly in view of the value of this during the winter months.

While I apprereciate that the cost of some of this work may be prohibitive, has the Department instigated its own research into the subject?

The hon. Gentleman is correct. The figures are rather overwhelming and we are still recovering from the results of our first examination. It costs £150 for a seeded football pitch, £11,000 for an all-weather pitch—we want to encourage this type of facility—and £100,000 to £140,000 for the sort of pitch to which my hon. Friend has drawn attention.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether, in view of the decision on economy grounds of the Greater London Council not to hold this year the triennial open-air sculpture exhibition, he will offer a contribution to enable this event to take place.

Whether the exhibition is held this year is a matter for the Greater London Council, and, so far as I am aware, the Council has not applied to any other body for financial assistance to this end.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that these open-air sculpture exhibitions have been held triennially for the last 21 years despite any economic crises that may have occurred during that time? Since this is an important and popular feature of London's artistic life which encourages British sculptors and is a great attraction to foreign visitors, and in view of the small sum involved, will my right hon. Friend press the G.L.C. to reconsider this mean and petty decision?

I am aware of the regularity with which these exhibitions have been held over the years, and I seem to recall attending the very first one, in the company of my right hon. Friend the Member for Vauxhall (Mr. Strauss). I, too, would be sorry if they were not continued. The Government do not impose restrictions on this type of local authority expenditure—I want that to be clear—and it is, therefore, for the local authorities themselves to decide their priorities, bearing in mind the funds available.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what proportion of 24-year old graduate teachers earn £1,350 per annum.

Up-to-date information is not available.

Would the Minister bear in mind that some concern has been expressed about the terms of an advertisement which was placed in the Press in December and which rather suggested that a very large proportion of graduates would earn £1,350 per annum at the age of 24? Will she ensure that the Ministry takes care to see that no advertisements which might be considered by the public at large as misleading are placed in the Press?

I think that the hon. Gentleman is under a misapprehension. I thought that his Question was concerned with this advertisement—I have a copy of it with me—the details of which made it clear that it was part of our campaign to get science graduates into the schools. The advertisement was about science graduates. In 1966, of the trained science and mathematics teachers with good honours degrees in their sixth year of service, 46 per cent. had become heads of departments and 94 per cent. were receiving responsibility allowances.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what further plans he has to assist schools this year in the introduction of computer education.

There is increasing activity in this field. A number of local education authorities—for example, Hertfordshire and Staffordshire—have projects for developing computer education in schools in association with colleges of technology. The National Computing Centre has mounted a pilot course for schools, and the Schools Council is also sponsoring an experiment in the school use of computer facilities. My Department's programme of short courses for teachers includes courses in or with a bearing on computer education in schools.

Is the right hon. Lady aware that I am questioning her Department? When will it wake up to the urgency of this problem? Will she institute a study in depth to analyse the requirements of all local authorities, all of which, I suspect, are different? Will she also press for acceptance of the fact that computing is now a full and critically important academic discipline and should be regarded as such?

I agree with the last part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question. This is a very important subject indeed. I assure him that we are willing to do everything we can to ensure that progress is made.

In view of the news which the right hon. Lady has given, and particularly in view of the important experiments being carried out by local authorities in conjunction with technical colleges, will she seriously consider publishing a Ministerial booklet or handbook on this subject on the lines of many such booklets that have appeared in the past? Does she agree that my hon. Friend has asked an extremely important Question?

A booklet has just been published, but I shall certainly be in touch with the Schools Council on this matter. I answered the previous supplementary question by agreeing that this was an extremely important subject.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's Answer, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is the annual recurrent cost of the Council for National Academic Awards; and how much of this is met by students' fees.

I understand that in the last financial year the Council's total expenditure was £80,500, of which £52,000 was met by students' fees.

Does my hon. Friend agree that the council is doing an extremely valuable job and is training the undergraduate equivalent of two full-time universities? What co-operation is there between the council and those responsible for organising the open university?

In answering the first part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, I should like to thank him for his encouragement, which will be appreciated by the C.N.A.A. It would be helpful if the House paid more attention to this fast-growing sphere of further education. To answer the second part, I should be grateful if my hon. Friend would table a Question because I should like to give him a full Answer, which I cannot do at present.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what proposals he has for allowing exemptions when the school-leaving age is raised to 16 years.

None, Sir, but I am about to consult teachers and local authority associations about whether in certain circumstances older schoolchildren should be allowed to attend further education institutions instead of school.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that both the majority and minority Reports of the Crowther Committee recommended that some exemptions would be required? Why has he rejected that recommendation?

I would not be prepared to agree to making exemptions from some sort of schooling because that would conflict with the whole object of raising the school-leaving age.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that his answer about allowing older children to spend some time in colleges of further education is a very useful and encouraging one? Can he be a little more specific about what he means by "older children"? Can he put an age range on that phrase?

I mean by older children those in the last year, the fifth year in the secondary school. There are difficulties here, but we are discussing them with the local authority associations and the teachers' organisations.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will encourage research into the preservation of rare species which are in danger of extinction in Wales.

I already do. The Nature Conservancy has been studying rare arctic-alpine flora in Wales for a a number of years. The conservancy is doing a survey of the number and distribution of otters in the Snowdonia National Park which will be related to the work of the Mammals Society in Great Britain as a whole, and work is also being done on the red kite. If my hon. Friend has any other particular species in mind—for example, Welsh Conservatives—perhaps he will write to me.

Does not my hon. Friend accept, particularly at a moment when the Duke of Edinburgh is publicising the World Wild Life Fund, that there are many indigenous species under grave threat, as shown in the Mammal Society's publication last week relating to the otter? Are not urgent steps for conservation now necessary, particularly in the more remote highland areas, where such species may have a chance of surviving in their natural habitat?

Yes; it is very important that we try to preserve our native fauna as far as we possibly can. This is obviously true of the otter not least among the threatened mammals. We hope that the Snowdonia survey will assist us in this respect.

What can the hon. Lady do to protect some of the rarer Welsh birds from extinction by her own colleagues such as, notably at this time of stress in the Annual Price Review, the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food?

It is so open in education to take the phrase "rarer Welsh birds" either way that I find it rather difficult to answer the hon. Gentleman.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what progress has been made in considering the scheme proposed by the Arts Council, the Society of Authors and the Publishers Association regarding books loaned by public libraries; and if he will make a statement.

Differing views have been put forward and continue to be put forward about the Arts Council's scheme, I sympathise with the objectives of the scheme, but it is not at present possible to devote an extra £2 million to them.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, in view of the immense increase in Government support for the arts during the last four years, there is widespread resentment at the grossly unfair attacks made on her from some quarters in regard to this matter? Will she nevertheless press forward for the implementation of some scheme which will remove the injustice from which many authors suffer, in that they get royalties on only one book although it may be read by 100 people who borrow it from a library? Does my right hon. Friend agree that any funds made available for removing this grievance should not be channelled through the Arts Council, which exists for an entirely different purpose?

Order. Long supplementary questions mean fewer Questions.

I agree with my right hon. Friend that this is not a matter to be financed by the Arts Council. However, it is a matter to be considered by the Arts Council, because it affects writers. A great deal of thought is going into this question, but we must consider also the points of view of the Library Association, the county councils and the local councils. All that is being very thoroughly looked into.

Does not the right hon. Lady agree that a detailed experiment along the lines of the Arts Council's scheme with a library or a number of public libraries would at least show whether the scheme put forward by the Council is viable?

The Arts Council has made it very clear that it has put forward some proposals. There are alternative proposals. There are alternative ideas affecting copyright and a great deal more. A working party is to be set up. Work is continuing on this. This is one of the most complex and difficult situations that the House has to deal with.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what reports he has received from local educational organisations of the extent and value of work experience schemes in factories, shops and offices for pupils in their final year at school; and if he will introduce legislation to extend these schemes to pupils below the statutory leaving age.

I have received several reports, including an encouraging one about a work experience scheme in Manchester. The amendment of the law relating to the employment of children and young persons is a matter for other Departments, and my Department is discussing with them the legal and safety problems arising from these schemes.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that these schemes can be of great value to schools, employers, and, most of all, pupils, but that the pupils who need them most are those with the least time to choose their employment—those below the statutory age? In view of the raising of the statutory age in the future, will my right hon. Friend have urgent consultations with my other right hon. Friends who are principally concerned?

I agree with my hon. Friend about the importance of these schemes, but I think that he will appreciate that there are certain practical things that have to be ironed out, particularly with regard to such matters as safety and industrial injuries.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will arrange an inquiry into the present arrangements and machinery for collective bargaining by all those engaged in the educational service, including those working in both schools and universities.

I see no case at present for an inquiry.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that the use of the National Board for Prices and Incomes to determine university salaries, in the absence of any preliminary collective bargaining machinery, is wholly unsatisfactory? Does he not also agree that the members of a union affiliated to the T.U.C. should not find themselves denied pay simply for working to rule in defence of their right to adequate representation in such collective bargaining machinery as exists for teachers' salaries?

My hon. Friend has put two separate points. First, university teachers have never had collective bargaining. Exploratory discussions are taking place now between my hon. Friend the Minister of State, the Committee of Vice-Chancellors and Principals, and the Association of University Teachers. The discussions are still continuing. On the other point, this is a matter for the local authorities; they are the employers of the teachers. I understand that the matter is now settled in most places, and I hope that the teachers will get back to normal working.

Without necessarily seeking to defend the action taken by some members of the National Association of Schoolmasters, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he appreciates how very strong is their sense of grievance at the moment and how anxiously they are seeking to find a way out of the present impasse?

I realise that the members of the Association have very strong feelings, but they have not approached me at all on this matter.

Will my right hon. Friend take great care before messing around with the Burnham machinery? Whatever its faults, it has worked relatively well in the last few years.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. We should remember that the Burnham machinery is statutory machinery. It is embodied in an Act of Parliament passed by this House as recently as 1965. The main objection is not to the machinery but to the procedure. The Committee can review its own procedure at any time.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will now take steps to set up a collective bargaining procedure to determine the pay of university teachers.

I refer my hon. Friend to my Written Reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford, North (Mr. Ford) on 27th February.—[Vol. 778. c. 364–5.]

Could my right hon. Friend make clear what the stumbling block is in setting up this machinery? Is it the university authorities which refuse to combine to set up collective bargaining machinery, or is it Government policy that such collective bargaining machinery is inappropriate?

No, Sir. The difficulty here is inherent in the structure of the universities. The problem is that we cannot get any of the parties concerned to constitute an employers' side for negotiations.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what study he is making of the possibilities of reducing primary school classes of over 40 children by a more even distribution of children through more flexible curriculum planning, the replacement of small classrooms and methods other than the increase of teaching staff.

There is constant study and experiment in this field by local education authorities, through their advisory officers, architects and teachers, and much work has also been initiated by the Schools Council. The trend of primary school design is away from the provision of formal classrooms towards provision for more flexible grouping of children.

How many of the approximately 15,000 classes over 40 are in infants schools? Might it not be as well to try to concentrate on making more space available in the way of buildings rather than thinking exclusively in terms of teachers?

I cannot give the figure off the cuff. On the second point, the building programme is now more than twice what it was four years ago, and next year it will increase still further.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that it is not the size of classes which is important in this respect but the number of pupils and the number of teachers in each school, particularly in primary schools with their new methods?

I quite agree. It is for this reason that I think that the 40–30 regulation is now out of date, and I have now initiated discussions with the local authorities and the teachers to try to find a better formula.

Will the Secretary of State give an assurance that no part-time teachers have been paid off by any authorities through lack of funds?

I cannot give an assurance about that because how many teachers they employ is a matter for local authorities, but I hope no local authorities will pay off part-time teachers.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what steps he is taking to recruit more men into the teaching profession.

I want to see recruited more of the best teachers, men or women. One effect of current increases in the provision of training places for graduates will be to increase the proportion of men in training. My campaign to recruit more graduates in science and mathematics should also help.

In view of the need to increase the proportion of men, particularly graduates, is there not a case for reconstituting the National Advisory Council on the recruitment and training or teachers or some equivalent body?

That is one point, but I remind the hon. Gentleman that the numbers of men recruited to 3-year training courses have increased substantially from 7,133 in 1964 to 10,670 in 1968; so it is way ahead of what was forecast some time ago.

Does not the right hon. Lady recognise that there is growing bewilderment and annoyance at the Government's failure to replace the old National Advisory Council on the Training and Supply of Teachers? Could she undertake that she or her right hon. Friend will try to make a statement on the subject before long?

I could not give the right hon. Gentleman that undertaking, but we are setting up a Teachers Council, and we shall have to see how that goes in the context of what he has in mind.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what extra funds will be made available to the Natural Environment Research Council for the implementation of the flood control research programme recommended by the Institute of Civil Engineers.

None, Sir. The programme will be funded in the normal way through the Science Vote. The cost is estimated at £250,000 over five years.

As the hon. Lady said, the programme is costly and the problem is urgent. If extra funds are not made available, will not the work of the council be distorted?

I should make it clear that this study is related to the hydro-logical aspects of flood research and not to other aspects. It will be carried out by the Institute of Hydrology with due urgency. The Institute is a component body of the Natural Environment Research Council, and, therefore, extra funds are not required for it.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what advice he has given to local authorities about expanding the provision of textbooks in primary and secondary schools.

The provision of textbooks is the responsibility of local education authorities, and, although practice varies greatly between them, the average expenditure per pupil on library and textbooks has increased from £1·30 per pupils in 1964–65 to £1·57 in 1967–68.

Is the Minister aware that the combination of rapidly-increasing textbook prices and the Government's squeeze on educational spending makes some experts fear that the advances made in the past 12 years may be whittled away?

There needs to be a little more uniformity about this. Some local authorities are very much better than others. For example, the amount spent in primary schools varies from £0·42 to £2·67 per head, and in secondary schools from £1·27 to £4·66.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what recent consultations he has had with the Trustees of the Tate Gallery; and with what result.

With my colleagues in the Ministry of Housing and Local Government and the Ministry of Public Building and Works, I met a number of the Trustees last week to consider future plans for the Tate Gallery. Further consultations are taking place and must be concluded before I shall be in a position to make a statement.

In view of the great public interest in the matter, can the right hon. Lady say when she is likely to be in a position to make a statement? Can she assure the House that in her discussions consideration is being given to the alternative sites at the rear of the Gallery.

I can certainly give that assurance. We are all very much in a hurry. I hope that it will only be a matter of weeks, but I am not entirely in control of the timetable.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what plans he has for the future of the national museums and art galleries.

The development and improvement of our national museums and art galleries are covered by a 12-year building programme amounting to about £9 million for the period to March, 1976. This enables planning to be undertaken well ahead. Among the projects included in this programme are major extensions for the National Gallery and Tate Gallery; a new museum to be erected next to the Royal Scottish Museum in Edinburgh; and a number of projects costing £1·25 million at the British Museum, in addition to three costing over £500,000 already completed there in 1967.

In view of the considerable difficulty that has arisen about the proposed extension to one of the national galleries, can the right hon. Lady give us as much information as possible about all these detailed plans so that public opinion can know exactly what will happen will in advance?

I think that the hon. Gentleman has in mind the Tate Gallery. What happened there was that the Trustees were going ahead with the best scheme that seemed possible at the time. We now have hope that we may be able to acquire adjoining ground. So there was no delay but just a new factor entering the situation. I am a natural optimist, and I hope that it will be an answer to our problem.

Can my right hon. Friend confirm that the estimates of future expenditure do not contain any offset for the sale of the Clapham Transport Museum? Can she confirm that she is keeping an open mind on its future?

I congratulate the defenders of the Clapham Transport Museum on their gallantry, but I think that that is one battle that is now over.