asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many of Her Majesty's Inspectors have been allocated to preliminary investigations in preparation for the recognition of private schools; how many man-hours they have spent and what is the estimated cost of this operation; how many children are being educated at the schools covered; what is the number of Her Majesty's Inspectors; what is the number of children in the public sector of education; and if he will make a statement.

In England, 28 Inspectors are specifically assigned to give part of their time to the exercise aimed at raising standards in independent boarding schools not recognised as efficient. The cost of the time which they, with specialist colleagues, devoted to advisory visits to the schools in the autumn term, 1968, was about £12,000. Similar costs are expected in the spring and summer terms, 1969, and plans are being made to double the rate of inspection from autumn, 1969, so as to complete the advisory visits by summer, 1970. The total cost of this part of the exercise will, therefore, be about £105,000.

While I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply, does she not agree that that is a considerable subsidy at public expense for the private sector of education? Does not it reveal the need for a more radical approach to the private sector?

I think my hon. Friend will recognise that we have been pressed very hard from both sides of the House and all parts of the country to bring these schools up to an efficient standard. We have a duty to ensure that the children in them are given a proper education or that the schools close down.

But is it not a shade rough to grudge the independent schools this help at a time when a number of them, and particularly the I.A.P.S., are extremely keen to raise standards and want to see a clear distinction in the public mind between the recognised schools and the schools that are merely registered?

I think the right hon. Gentleman will see from what I said that I could not go along with my hon. Friend's view.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what increase there has been in the student intake in colleges of drama and music in England and Wales compared with universities, since 1962 to the latest convenient date; and what estimate he has made of the size of the future student intake.

Figures are available only of the total number of students attending colleges of drama and music in England and Wales maintained by local education authorities or recognised as efficient. At these colleges, which do not include several major independent institutions, the total number of students increased between 1962–63 and 1967–68 by 21·8 per cent. In universities in England and Wales (excluding the former colleges of advanced technology) the increase in student numbers in all subjects during this period was 43·5 per cent. The increase in numbers of students of music and drama between 1965–66 and 1967–68—figures for earlier years not being available—is 20·5 per cent.

The figures my hon. Friend has given will be studied with great interest by the House. Is she aware that there is a widening interest throughout the whole United Kingdom in such things as drama and music? Does she agree that some of the youngsters passing out of our schools and universities are probably as good as any previous generations?

There has been a marked increase in interest in both drama and music in the schools. Our main concern is to make sure that people who study these subjects can find employment afterwards.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what progress there has been in his discussions with the Association of University Teachers; and if he will make a statement.

I refer the hon. Member to my Written Reply to my hon. Friend, the Member for Bradford, North (Mr. Ford) on 27th February.—[Vol. 778, c. 364–5.]

I have seen that Reply, but in view of the strength of feeling among the university teachers will the right hon. Gentleman and his colleagues make sure that there is the utmost urgency in the discussions? Does he agree that one possible solution may be a special type of review body, such as that for doctors and dentists?

I agree that there is a good deal of urgency in the matter, but the hon. Gentleman will also agree that it is very complicated. I have very carefully studied the proposal he put forward in our debate in January.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what proposals he has for improving the negotiating machinery for school teachers' salaries.

I have no proposals.

Does not the Minister agree that there is room for improvement in the procedure of the Burnham machinery so that the voices of all the different teachers' organisations can be fully heard? Will he be ready to use his good offices when the opportunity arises to help bring about such an improvement?

I have had no approach from anybody about the Burnham difficulties. May I also distinguish between the machinery and procedure. The machinery is statutory, having been laid down by the House as recently as 1965. The procedure is a matter for the Committee itself. I am told by the other teachers' organisations and the local authorities that if any of the minority associations wish to discuss the procedure they would be only too happy to talk about it.

In view of the unhappy situation which has developed at Liverpool, and still persists, arising out of negotiating machinery arguments, will my right hon. Friend indicate what protection is available to teachers who exercise the right enjoyed by many workers to work to rule without having all their pay deducted?

I do not think that this can be talked about in purely industrial terms. There is no rule book for teachers as, say, for boiler-makers. The teachers have a contract with the local authority and they either keep the terms of the contract or they do not. This is really a matter between the local authority and the teachers. If the teachers are aggrieved about some of the conditions in the contract, it is, like any other contract, a matter for negotiation between the two parties to it—the local authority and the teachers.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will now take steps to set up a new and independent body to deal with all questions affecting the salary structures, benefits and employment conditions of teachers.

No, Sir.

Is it not a fact that a depressingly large number of teachers have lost faith in the Burnham Committee, and will not that confidence be restored only by the introduction of some new form of comprehensive negotiating machinery?

I think that the hon. Gentleman ought to be clear about this: if he wants to scrap the Burnham machinery, he ought to say whether he wants to depart from the principle of negotiation and go for referring teachers' salaries to something like the National Board for Prices and Incomes. If the hon. Gentleman wants to retain negotiations, it is difficult to see how at the end of the day he will have anything very different from the present system, where local authorities are on one side of the table and teachers are on the other.

Did my right hon. Friend read the speech of his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment and Productivity during the prices and incomes debate three weeks ago when she said that her Department was looking into the whole question of settling public service salaries? Is my right hon. Friend being consulted about this, and what views is he putting forward to those discussions?

This is a Government inquiry, being carried out by officials for the Government, into all the issues involved in fixing pay in the public service, and, of course, my officials are involved in it.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the present system has led to some unsatisfactory conditions? The N.A.S. on Merseyside has made this abundantly clear. Can my right hon. Friend give guidance to Merseyside, particularly to the Liverpool authority, on this pressing problem?

I know the feelings of the N.A.S., but we must recognise that for the first time for a number of years the Burnham machinery has reached agreement. The fact that one minority association dissents does not mean that the machinery is defective.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will make a statement regarding progress on the reorganisation of secondary education in Norfolk.

I have received no plan from the local education authority but I believe that proposals for the area of the King's Lynn divisional executive are under consideration and I hope that these will be submitted as soon as possible.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the great concern among teachers and parents at the terrible delay and the consequent delays in the rebuilding of urgently needed schools? Will she use her good offices to expedite this reorganisation as quickly as possible?

Yes. We have been doing everything that we can. I hope that Norfolk will soon be able to let us have some proposals. My hon. Friend will know that I have deferred my decision on the secondary school building programme until we have a clearer indication of the local authority's intentions for reorganisation on comprehensive lines.

Does the Minister agree that there are special difficulties in Norfolk mainly related to a very large geographical spread of schools, which makes it difficult to put forward proposals? Can the right hon. Lady confirm that the authority has undertaken not to put forward any building proposals which are not compatible with the future reorganisation scheme? Also, I express the hope that the Minister will visit Norfolk next month.

I recognise there are difficulties in producing a scheme for the whole area at once. But I think that we could expect the local authority to produce schemes for particular divisional areas. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will shortly be visiting Norfolk for two days, and he will be able to see these at first hand.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what steps he is taking to provide for consultation of teachers' organisations during the preparation of schemes for the reorganisation of secondary education.

My predecessors and I have made it clear to local education authorities that we expect them to have close and genuine consultation with teachers. Circular 10/65 suggests ways of achieving this but recognises that the precise arrangements cannot be prescribed from the centre.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in the King's Lynn division, where plans for reorganisation are now in the final stages, teachers' organisations as such have not yet been consulted and that there is very considerable feeling on the matter among the teachers?

I hope that the local authority will consult the teachers before arriving at any final plan. It is a case of holding the balance between the right and, indeed, the duty of the local authority to take decisions and its acceptance that teachers have a great deal of expertise and a great deal to contribute in the matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will take steps to give direct financial support to established and recognised pre-school play groups to assist them with a proportion of their costs; and if he will make a statement.

Pre-school play groups are not schools, nor do they provide an educational service within the meaning of the Education Acts. For this reason neither I nor local education authorities have power to give them direct financial assistance under the Education Acts—although I do make grants to the Playgroups Association and the Save the Children Fund towards their headquarters expenses. I know that a number of education authorities assist play groups with loans of equipment and accommodation and with advice. Financial assistance can be given by local authorities under powers conferred on them by other Acts, and they have been invited under the second phase of the urban programme to make proposals for projects which will attract special grant from the Exchequer.

While accepting what my right hon. Friend has said about this matter, may I ask whether it would not be better to use a small amount of money and revise the Act, if necessary, to assist pre-school groups, because it is a good form of nursery education to get off the ground? Is it not also a good example of enlightened self-interest?

This is what we are doing in the urban programme. Under the first phase 34 local authorities were assisted. Under the second phase we have invited all local authorities to apply. As I have pointed out, local authorities have power to give assistance to play groups, but under the Act which gives effect to the urban programme, they will be able to get a 75 per cent. grant for this expenditure.

Would the right hon. Gentleman say that this lack of legal power that he has is something that he would wish to remedy in the new Education Bill?

Yes, I think so. I think that play groups do a very good job. But I repeat that there are a number of Acts, apart from the Education Acts, which empower local authorities to give assistance. If we now approve those projects under the urban programme they will rank for 75 per cent. grant.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science which local education authorities have now appointed pre-school play group organisers or advisory officers.

I have no information about this. Local education authorities do not inform me of appointments to advisory posts.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the comparatively few local authorities which have appointed such advisers have found that they have been of great value? Will he, therefore, advise other local authorities, particularly those with educational priority area problems, that it would be highly desirable for them to appoint such officers?

I agree with the hon. Gentleman about the importance of these people. The recent circular on the second phase of the urban programme referred to this matter in specific terms and said that local authorities would in some cases first wish to appoint an organiser and that the cost of that organiser would, of course, rank for the 75 per cent. grant.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what recommendations on the education and training of deaf-blind children he received from the meeting called by his department on 18th March, 1968, and attended by representatives of the Department of Social Services, local authorities, the Royal National Institute of the Deaf, the Royal National Institute of the Blind, the National Association of Deaf, Blind and Rubella Children, and other interested persons; and what action he has taken on these recommendations.

The meeting was held in order to pool experiences, and no recommendations were made. There have been follow-up meetings with the Department of Health and Social Security, and a conference was convened last year for teachers and other specialists, and another is planned in June this year.

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is regrettable that no recommendations for action were taken at that conference? Does he further agree that the fact that only 17 out of 208 deaf-blind children are in special schools which provide for both disabilities is really deplorable? Is he aware that the parents of the remaining 191 are anxiously awaiting action by the Government?

It may be regrettable that there was no specific recommendation. But that was not for us; it was for the conference. My hon. Friend will appreciate that we are anxious to give as much help as we can to these extremely unfortunate children. The numbers are very small indeed. To deal with deaf-blind children requires tremendous expertise on the part of the teachers, and the number of teachers with those capacities is small. There is also the difficulty that the provision of schools is for the local authorities, not for us. The best hope that I can give my hon. Friend is that we are seriously considering whether the categories of very severely disabled children, including deaf-blind children, ought to be looked at again nationally to provide a specific service for them.

While recognising the desire of the hon. Gentleman and his Department to help in the matter, if there are so relatively few deaf-blind children and not many teachers with the special skills, is not this a case for concentrating efforts and trying some pilot project for the education of this category of children?

I accept that there is much substance in that suggestion. It is one of the matters that we are considering.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what provision he is making for the long-term training and education of children with defects of both sight and hearing; and if he wil make a statement.

I have nothing to add to the reply I gave my hon. Friend on 6th February.—[Vol. 777, c. 148–9.]

While thanking my hon. Friend for that comprehensive and very helpful reply, may I ask whether he is aware that, although his Department has shown some concern for young deaf-blind children, it has shown very little concern for the older deaf-blind children? Does the Minister really appreciate that the dedicated people who are transforming young human vegetables into human beings are seriously disturbed over the lack of facilities provided by the Department for the future of these children?

I know that there is this concern, and I can assure my hon. Friend that it is shared by my right hon. Friend and me. We think that the first priority is the problem of early identification of children who have both disabilities. If we get that right we can then deal with the other things that we want to do. We are concentrating most of our attention on that problem at the moment.

When does the Minister hope to conclude his thoughts on the possible pilot scheme mentioned in the previous Question?

I could not possibly give a date, but I know that the hon. Gentleman will accept from me that it will be done as urgently as possible.

Is my hon. Friend aware that many parents in Scotland are grateful for the education provided by, for example, the Mary Hare Grammar School? Is he further aware that there would be no protestations from Scotland or anywhere else if we were to agree to a substantial increase of public expenditure in this sphere?

I am not responsible for what is happening in Scotland. If Scotland is leading the Sassenachs it will not be the first time. I will take account of what my hon. Friend has said.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many local education authorities are restricting the issue of free school milk to maintained primary schools; and what steps he is taking to advise these local authorities to end this discrimination.

This information is not available. Local education authorities have discretion in this matter under Section 78(2) of the Education Act, 1944, and it is not for me to advise them how to exercise it.

Surely the nutritional needs of these children have nothing to do with where or how they are educated? The hon. Gentleman ought to point that out to these local education authorities.

My Department has issued a number of pronouncements and we have had debates in this House, about the nutritional value of school milk. We cannot exercise control in a matter which Parliament has specifically said is for local authority discretion.

Is my hon. Friend aware that some excessive cuts are being made in certain areas, resulting in the cutting out of certain independent schools? One need not have a view about independent schools but all children should be treated equally.

I can understand my hon. Friend's argument, but I do not think that further public subsidies to independent schools ought to head our priorities in education.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will make a statement on British co-operation in the European Space Research Organisation.

At the European Space Conference in November we stated our intention to continue to collaborate in European space research for a further programme period up to 1974. The budget adopted for 1969–71 represents a rate of growth of 6 per cent. per annum for E.S.R.O. over the 1968 level. No country has yet made any commitment on the rate of expenditure after 1971. In addition to the scientific programme, the Government have agreed to contribute this year to studies in E.S.R.O. leading to economic and technical assessments of applications satellites.

Can the hon. Lady say whether the Government are generally in favour of the proposition of a space observatory? Secondly, are they in favour of the general proposition that E.S.R.O. should devote part of its time to application satellites as well as to purely scientific satellites?

It is difficult to give a clear answer to both parts of that question while studies are going on, as the hon. Gentleman will appreciate, but on the second part of the question I would say that we have indicated our interest, in principle, in application satellites. We have made it clear that we can finance studies this year, and in the light of these studies we shall make a decision.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what guidance he has given to local education authorities about the application of cuts in further education awards; and what representations on this matter he has received from Reading Borough Corporation.

None, Sir.

Will my right hon. Friend make some representations to Reading Borough Council? Has he seen the council's estimates and how it has cut back grants for further education? Would not my right hon. Friend agree that this is a most retrograde policy for a local authority to indulge in?

All I know is that in deciding on the rate support grant we allowed for an increase of 8·6 per cent. in the two years from 1967 and 5 per cent. in the following year. We also allowed a slight reduction for further implementing the Pilkington Report. These are the only actions that we have taken about further education. This is not a cut. It is a considerable increase.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will take steps to combat the use of drugs among schoolchildren by way of lectures and film demonstrations in schools and colleges.

Health education is a matter for local education authorities and for individual schools and colleges. Use is made of teaching materials, including films and talks, and the advice of medical officers in my Department and of the Inspectorate is increasingly being sought.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is a serious shortage of home-produced films, and that the only ones available are some out-dated American ones which have to be imported? It would take only a few hundred pounds for voluntary organisations to produce films. Will the hon. Gentleman indicate to local authorities that something ought to be done about this?

Our responsibilities in respect of health education are such that we want to see more up-to-date films, if they do not exist. I was in touch with a hospital in the city which the hon. Gentleman and I represent about the possibility of basing such film manufacture on a hospital there. I am not certain of the up-to-date position, but I undertake to write to the hon. Gentleman about it.

Does the hon. Gentleman know the extent of the increase in the taking of soft drugs like cannabis in universities and colleges of further education? What is he doing to stop this increase?

Last week I dealt with figures about drug addiction which showed that for the last year available there was a slight decrease. I was not drawing any deduction from them—it was far too premature to do so—but at least it was a hopeful sign.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what increase in the total school building programme he proposes to make between the years 1968–69 and 1969–70.

I recently announced increases amounting to £9·5 million in the 1969–70 starts programme. The total for that year is now £138·5 million compared with £129·8 million for 1968–69.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the changes which have been deferred in the schools ought to have been made years ago? If it is true to say that something should have been done in 1964, it means that it is very true to say that it should have been done in 1969.

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. There are thousands of schools throughout the country which ought to have been pulled down years ago. There are 7,000 schools which were built before 1880. It is a pity that the Conservative Government did not deal with rather more. The present building programme is more than twice the building programme during the last year of the Conservatives.

If we are going to bandy figures about, can the right hon. Gentleman say how much the school roll, in particular the primary school roll, has gone up in recent years?

The school roll is increasing by about 3 per cent. a year. All I am saying is that the building programme is twice as big as it was when the right hon. Gentleman left it.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will give an assurance that he will comply with the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights passed by the General Assembly of the United Nations on 16th December, 1966, which upholds the rights of parents to choose for their children schools other than those established by public authorities which conform to such minimum educational standards as may be laid down or approved by the State.

In this country parents already have such rights.

Is it the right hon. Gentleman's policy to adhere to, and maintain, those rights?

This country signed the International Covenant in September of last year, but, as the hon. Gentleman knows, it does not come into force until 35 countries have ratified it. So far only one country, Costa Rica, has ratified it. The Covenant says nothing about any subvention from public funds by way of direct grant, rate relief or tax relief for parents who send their children to private schools.

On the question of parents' rights, can my right hon. Friend say whether, if a local authority wishes to decimate a good school for no particular reason in direct opposition to the wishes of the parents of the children at that school, as in the case of the Walpole School, Ealing, he gives as much cognisance to the views of the parents as he does to those of the local authority?

I think my hon. Friend knows that at the moment I am considering the position of that school. I have to consider all the objections which have been made, and I hope to give my decision very shortly.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what arrangements he has made for mineral surveys on the Continental Shelf; and how much of the time of the "John Murray" is devoted to applied survey projects as against pure oceanographic research.

The Institute of Geological Sciences, a component body of the Natural Environment Research Council, is conducting surveys on the United Kingdom Continental Shelf to assess geological structures which may indicate mineral deposits.

I welcomed the opportunity of visiting the "John Murray" at the oceanology exhibition at Brighton, but is the hon. Lady satisfied that the survey ships available to the Institute for oceanography are spending enough time on mission-orientated surveys with tangible medium-term and short-term benefits to this country?

The hon. Gentleman's interest was much appreciated and we are grateful to him for visiting the ship. To give a precise answer, 80 per cent. of the time of this ship is spent specifically on geological boreholes and studies, as is a good deal of the time of chartered ships as well.

In view of the demands on the time and resources of the "John Murray", would it not be practical to leave some of the mineral surveying to the Navy, which would be glad to do it?

That question is primarily for the Secretary of State for Defence, but a number of other ships have also been chartered for this purpose.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what was the total expenditure, incurred by the organisations and councils for which he is responsible on oceanography and on oceanographic research in 1968; how much of this was spent on pure research, and how much on applied research and technologies which will give a return on the moneys allocated to this purpose; and what will be the amount and nature of the expenditure in the current year.

The total expenditure incurred by the Natural Environment Research Council on Oceanography and Marine Science for the year 1967–68 was £1,902,000. Estimated expenditure for 1968–69 is £2,320,000.

Is the hon. Lady satisfied that, to use the Secretary of State's phrase at Brighton, the projects are being chosen "carefully and professionally" and that, in particular, attention is being paid to work on the Continental Shelf and the pursuit of minerals, oils and gases near our shores, if not further away?

I trust that no Minister is ever completely satisfied, but a good deal of time is being spent surveying the Continental Shelf. It is hoped that this will be completed in 10 years, but the concentration will be on the most economical parts first. In particular, the studies done in Cardigan Bay, the southern Irish Sea and the southern Hebrides area are proving extremely valuable and suggest that there will be real commercial returns from hydrocarbons in those areas.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will seek powers to encourage the joint use of laboratory, library and student union facilities between universities, colleges of education, polytechnics and colleges of further education.

My right hon. Friend and I have already encouraged the sharing of facilities on a number of occasions and we shall continue to do so wherever it seems possible.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there is a gross disparity, particularly in the provision of student union facilities, sometimes with university students rating four and five times as much grant per student per facility as those at colleges of education and colleges of technology? What is she doing to bring these figures together? It is one of the causes of the present student unrest.

I completely agree with my hon. Friend. We would welcome suggestions for local co-operation of this kind and would give them every possible help, but the matters which are concerned here are not purely for the Department of Education and Science but also for such bodies as the National Union of Students and, for that matter, the local authority associations.

The hon. Lady will remember that I raised this matter in our debate on the universities. Would she not agree that, apart from the issue of disparity—which I agree is important—from the point of view of the future rising cost of higher education it is highly important to bring together here the University Grants Committee and representatives of local authorities? Will she promise that she and her right hon. Friend will do their best to pursue this matter?

The right hon. Gentleman and I are singing in harmony on this. He may also recall that I replied in that debate on the same lines. He will recollect also that the U.G.C., in its memorandum of guidance, strongly supported co-operation of this kind. There has been more than one Ministerial speech supporting this, and it would be very helpful for us to have specific local initiatives taken in this field.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what steps he is taking to encourage local authorities to appoint school counsellors in secondary schools.

I am watching the development of the service provided by school counsellors, but it is too soon to reach the conclusion that they should be specially appointed in all secondary schools.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, particularly in careers guidance, it is unreasonable to expect ordinary serving teachers with a full timetable to undertake the whole burden in any particular secondary school? From this point of view, although she cannot agree to a school counsellor in every secondary school, how many have already been appointed?

I agree about the desirability of school counsellors and I should like to see them appointed in secondary schools, but some teachers feel that this duty should be shared among existing teachers rather than made the subject of special appointments. Perhaps my hon. Friend would give me notice of his question about the numbers at present in secondary schools.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether his Department continues to obtain the annual statistics of 11-plus performances in each primary school where the examination is still held.

The Department has never made a practice of collecting annual statistics about 11-plus results.

In view of the fact that the local authorities do, could my right hon. Friend explain why parents appear to have no right of information about the 11-plus, particularly since information about the 18-plus and the 21-plus is made freely available by schools, not least the public schools, and the universities?

It would be invidious to publish statistics of individual passes of the 11-plus. I would rather devote my energies to bringing an end to the 11-plus altogether. My hon. Friend will be pleased to know that recently we have been considering the reorganisation proposals in the area which he has in mind, and his local authority will be given the result in the next few days.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what negotiations he has undertaken with the governing bodies of sport about arrangements for Government assistance to them for the next Olympic Games; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what are his plans for financial assistance to those concerned with preparing for Great Britain's representation in athletics at the next Olympic Games.

I have now completed discussions with each of the governing bodies concerned with the 1972 Olympic Games based On a four-year programme covering training and participation in international events. The governing bodies are providing further information as a result of these discussions, and this will, I hope, enable us to assess the extent to which it will be possible for the Government to assist them with this part of their work.

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that if governing bodies are to be able properly to organise the training and the deployment of coaches for the Olympic Games it is very important that their administration should be very strong? What assistance, financial or otherwise, are the governing bodies now being given towards the strengthening of their organisation?

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman has taken an early opportunity to rebut what "Crossbencher" wrote last Sunday. I cannot give a full reply until I have completed the very detailed investigations which I am making into the whole of this question. I met 21 governing bodies of sports in January and February, and there are some further discussions still to come, but we hope to make announcements on these matters very soon.

Before giving public money to athletics—my Question No. 49 relates to athletics—will my hon. Friend insist on a modern organisation in this field, on the lines, for instance, of the Byers Committee's recommendations?

There is a very delicate balance between Government and the freedom of sports bodies which I have to observe. Although I try to give public money where I think it will do most good as an incentive, the governing bodies of sports have freedom. But I am happy to tell my hon. Friend that I believe that we have made substantial progress. The proposals which I understand will be reaching me very soon, although not on all fours with the Byers Committee's Report, go a considerable distance, in respect of administration, coaching and international participation, to meet those recommendations.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what support his Department is giving towards a 2,000-metre Olympic training course for the Amateur Rowing Association on the River Trent at Holme Pierrepoint, Nottinghamshire; and when the course will be available for training.

I recently discussed this project in detail with representatives of the local authority concerned. There are some considerable difficulties in the way of designating Holme Pierrepoint as a national rowing centre, and further consideration and discussion will be needed before any progress will be possible.

Will the Minister bear two points in mind; first, the central position in the heart of England of the proposed site, and, secondly, the fact that a 2,000-metre course on the Trent could be provided during 1970 in plenty of time for training to start for the Olympic Games in 1972?

These possibilities are well known to me. The Lee Valley was designated on the recommendation of the Amateur Rowing Association for a national centre, and I could not get out of that commitment without, in all honour, consulting the Lee Valley Authority first.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will now publish a report on the work of the Sports Council.

The Sports Council intends to publish a further report in the summer.

I welcome that announcement, but is it not intended that this should be an annual event, since I have no doubt that it would be much appreciated if a report were published annually by the Sports Council?

The Council itself decided that annual reports are usually fated to go into the waste-paper basket very early and that it would be much better to set a new example and publish reports when it had something substantial to say. It is now issuing its second report, two years after its first.

Would my hon. Friend also ensure that the work of the regional sports councils is included in this report? Would he confer with the Leader of the House to ensure that after four years we have a debate on sport and the Sports Council?

No one would welcome a debate on sport more than I, having been four years with this responsibility and unable to tell the House what I have been up to. I can assure my hon. Friend that there will be an appendix dealing with each region specifically.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what directions are given to local education authorities regarding the conditions of employment of part-time lecturers at technical colleges, schools of art and other establishments; and if he will make a statement.

The only statutory requirement is that a part-time teacher employed for more than a year in further education should be employed under a written agreement or minute defining the conditions of service. Those conditions, for all part-time teachers, are a matter for agreement between them and their employing authorities.

Are we not in grave danger of losing some extremely useful lecturers, some of whom have this as their sole source of income? Are not the variations in treatment which exist putting these people at grave risk economically?

Yes, Sir. I agree with my hon. Friend that the position is far from satisfactory. However, my Department has no power of review over the dismissal of part-time teachers. The Education (No. 2) Act, 1968, will in some ways help because these people will be covered by articles of government which apply to colleges of further education. I suggest that they would be well advised, however, to organise themselves within a professional association or trade union.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what research he is initiating into the educational value of computing and the use of computers in schools.

I have myself initiated no research, but material for study will be provided by the projects referred to in the reply by my right hon. Friend the Minister of State to the Question on 6th March by the hon. Member for Mid-Bedfordshire (Mr. Hastings)—[Vol. 779, c. 654–5]. The Schools Council is in touch with a wide range of developments and will be considering possible further action in this field.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say when the results of this inquiry are likely to be available so that decisions may be made about the desirability of including more of these activities in syllabuses?

A great deal of this work is being done, not only by the Schools Council and the National Computing Centre but also by my Department, which is running short courses. This has a great bearing on the matter. But I will keep in mind the hon. Gentleman's point about the need for the results of the Schools Council's research programme to be widely known without delay.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when he expects to announce his plan for sports scholarships; and if he will make a statement.

I cannot yet say when it will be possible to make an announcement. The details of a possible scheme are being discussed with all those who would be concerned with its implementation. I am encouraged by the large measure of support which the idea of such a scheme has already received.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if he will publish a statement on the progress made for implementing the recommendations of the Chester Report on Football.

I have now discussed the Chester Committee's recommendations with the Football Association and Football League, and we shall meet again as soon as they have had time to consider the questions raised. I hope to have a meeting soon with the Scottish Football Association and Scottish League.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the growing, though probably unjustified, belief that the Chester Report is accumulating dust, and will he do something to progress chase this matter?

I assure my hon. Friend that the Report is not collecting any dust. There have been two meetings this week, one lasting two hours and the other one-and-a-half hours. Further meetings with the Scottish authorities are planned to take place soon. The Report contains some far-reaching recommendations, and it is, therefore, bound to take some time for the football authorities to consider the matter in detail.

What progress has been made in discussions of another topic mentioned in the Chester Report—namely, the link between violence on the field and violence among spectators?

As I have explained to the House before, this subject is being considered by a working party under the chairmanship of Sir John Lang, and I am glad to tell my hon. Friend that it is making good progress and hopes to report soon.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he will take steps to provide that rent and rates, or repayment of mortgage principal, shall be allowable expenses in calculating parental contribution for purposes of student grants.

No, Sir. This would mean a substantial increase in public expenditure which cannot be considered at the present time.

Does not the hon. Lady recognise that the deductions mentioned in the Question are the same as those applied for school meals when working out the parental or national contribution? If it is good enough for one, why is it not good enough for the other?

The hon. Gentleman will realise that the deductions are based on Income Tax deductions, which do not include these particular figures. I can only repeat, with regret, that public expenditure considerations will not allow us to take this step at present.