asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is his policy regarding the work of the Land Commission in Scotland.

I have asked the Commission to make available a large proportion of the land required for the growth of private enterprise housebuilding, and also to assemble land for planned expansions of existing towns and the creation of new communities. In the White Paper published last week we reaffirmed our confidence in the Commission as the instrument for returning to the community a substantial part of the development value created by the community.

Does the right hon. Gentleman now accept that the Land Commission's operations can cause unpredictable hardship to individuals? Does he welcome in Scotland the exemptions proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer last week?

Yes, Sir. The Secretary of State for Scotland was a party to that decision.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what have been the results of his discussions with local authorities in Scotland regarding meeting the costs of the work on strenthening of certain high buildings and the related expenses.

Authorities have been told that Government assistance will be available. There will be discussions tomorrow with the local authority associations, and later with individual authorities.

But the question is, how much Government assistance? As local authorities can in no way be blamed, because the buildings met all the safety requirements at the time of construction, is it the Government's intention that no part of the expenses, including the moving expenses of tenants, will fall upon the local ratepayers?

The Government always consult local authorities before making up their minds on things like that. The Government are not dictatorial, and we shall lay down nothing in advance of tomorrow's meeting. All together, 17 local authorities are involved and 170 blocks either completed or under construction. It is an extremely difficult problem and should not be lightly skated over.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland which industries he has identified as having the greatest capability to contribute to his target of a gross increase of 130,000 jobs created in Scotland between now and 1970.

We are concerned to stimulate new growth and expansion by all industries and individual firms which can take advantage of Scottish resources and skills, and our efforts in this respect have achieved significant success.

Has the right hon. Gentleman noted the Minister of State's honesty in admitting the other day that the trend of employment and jobs in Scotland under this Government has gone precisely the opposite to that predicted in the National Plan? Is it still the right hon. Gentleman's opinion that the main increase in jobs in Scotland will come in the service industries? If so, what does he have to say about the latest increase in the Selective Employment Tax?

The Question deals with the target of a gross increase of 130,000 jobs. The hon. Gentleman will, no doubt, be happy to know that we are well up to target with respect to them.

Will the right hon. Gentleman answer the point about the S.E.T.? What estimate has been made of the loss of jobs in Scotland owing to the increase in the S.E.T.?

If the right hon. Gentleman likes to put down a Question about the S.E.T. I shall be glad to answer it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the total number of representations received by his Department to date about British Standard Time; and how many of these favoured and opposed the experiment, respectively.

Since 22nd June, 1967, when the Government announced their decision to introduce British Standard Time, I have received 93 representations opposing it from local authorities, 52 from other representative organisations and 69 from private individuals or firms. I have also received nine petitions. No representations in favour of British Standard Time have been received officially.

How many more representations have to be made to the Government on this subject before the Secretary of State will use what influence he has—if he has any—to persuade the Home Secretary that it is time he rethought his absurd obstinacy on this matter?

I have told the hon Gentleman before that it is our duty to look at the facts. We must examine the facts to see what is desirable. I ask the hon. Gentleman again to look at the facts before he simply starts counting heads in the sort of situation where people always tend to voice opposition rather than write in support, specially when hon. Members stump around the country encouraging them to do so.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Chief Constable of Lanarkshire makes it clear that there has been no increase in accidents since the introduction of B.S.T.?

I am not aware of that report. I will have another look at this. It is true that total casualties, including both adults and children, are down over the period of British Standard Time.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the number of clerical grade officers and senior officers employed by the Ayrshire Executive Council to check the entitlement to exemption from prescription charges; what is their estimated annual cost; what was the number of prescriptions checked between September, 1968 and January, 1969; what was the number of patients found not to be entitled to exemption; and what was the total of the charge recovered from those patients.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the number of clerical grade officers and senior officers employed by the Fife Executive Council to check the entitlement to exemption from prescription charges; what is their estimated annual cost; what was the number of prescription charges checked between September, 1968 and January, 1969; what was the number of patients found not to have entitlement to exemption; and what was the total of the charge recovered from those patients.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the number of clerical grade officers and senior officers employed on the Lothians and Edinburgh Executive Council to check the entitlement to exemption from prescription charges; what was the number of prescriptions checked between September, 1968 and January, 1969; what was the number of patients found not to have been entitled to exemption; and what was the total of the charge recovered from the patients.

As the Answer involves a number of figures I will circulate a table in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Why were these Questions taken together when they deal with different areas in Scotland?

Order. The hon. Gentleman should not raise a point of order on his own supplementary question. He must put his question.

Could my hon. Friend indicate the additional charge, the additional workers and the additional expense entailed in saving a small amount, and does he think that it is worth while?

This matter has been debated on the question of prescription charges as a whole at very considerable length. Regrettable as it may be, it was necessary to impose the charges. In Ayrshire, the costs involved in checking the forms in the period covered by the Question have been about £700.

Despite what my hon. Friend says, I feel that the prescription charges should be abolished, thus cutting out the need for exemptions. Does not he agree?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the total number of geriatric beds in Ayrshire; and

I could not agree, for the reasons I have just given, that obviously if there are charges and we have a system of exemptions, which is very much better than on previous occasions when prescription charges were levied, it is also necessary to have at least a minimum amount of checking to make sure that the system is working satisfactorily and is not open to abuse.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there are still many people in my constituency who resent the imposition of prescription charges? Is he aware that many of my constituents know that there are additional administrative costs, although we do not have the figures at this stage? Does he agree that it is a bit Gilbertian that we should work a system that imposes additional costs yet we abolish the principle of free prescriptions?

I would be glad to debate the whole matter on another occasion, but it has never been denied that such a system involves a certain amount of additional administrative expense. It is not true that the additional expense is anything like the amount of money saved by prescription charges. The figures are not at all comparable.

Will the Minister consider the administrative and public guidance problems which, under the present scheme, have fallen on pharmacists, particularly in rural areas?

I do not think that that arises from the Question. If the hon. Gentleman has a particular question, perhaps he will put it down.

Five hundred and thirty-seven staffed beds; on 28th February, 243 persons were on the waiting list.

Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the most compelling needs today is a sufficiency of geriatric beds in all areas? Will he do everything possible to supply these needed geriatric beds in the county of Ayr, which has had a very good record in health matters?

I agree with what my hon. Friend said in the first part of his supplementary question. Ayrshire is not one of the worst areas in Scotland from this point of view, but even there matters can certainly be improved. My hon. Friend will be glad to know that there is a proposal for an extention of 60 beds at the Biggart Home, and the North Ayr District General Hospital, which is admittedly some way off, will have a 60-bed geriatric assessment unit.

Is the Minister aware that there is concern in some parts of Ayrshire that there are not enough beds now? Will he bear in mind that there are certain parts of Ayrshire where the proportion of older people is rather higher than the national average, and that this is a special factor which should be taken into account?

In calculating the requirements, we work on a standard based on the number of persons in the population over 65, which automatically takes account of what the hon. Gentleman has just said.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what he estimates will be the effect upon the housing programme in Scotland of the 8 per cent. Bank Rate.

The direct effect of Bank Rate on new construction is small. From the parallel increase in market rates local housing authorities are protected in considerable measure by the subsidy system introduced in 1967. The effect of increased mortgage rates on the private sector was the subject of a debate on 19th March.

But in view of the great importance of housing and the cost to local authorities and others of the interest rates, can the Government look into the possibility of something like a housing bank or special account isolated from everything else, which can lend at very low rates?

That is a reasonable suggestion, and I shall certainly consider it. The hon. Gentleman should appreciate that by our subsidy system introduced in 1967 we have created considerable protection for the local authorities from fluctuations of interest rates, as compared with, say, 1962, when there were high interest rates and the house building programme for local authorities in Scotland fell to 18,900.

Will my right hon. Friend give an assurance, first, that the 40,000 figure of completions will be reached this year, and, second, that we shall never again get down to the very low figures produced by right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite?

I can assure my hon. Friend that I am not at all pessimistic about the outcome of our house building programme for this year. The thing to appreciate is that we have 55,000 houses under construction.

Can the right hon. Gentleman explain the very sharp drop in the number of houses completed in the first quarter of this year compared with the numbers completed in the same quarter last year?

The number of houses completed varies from quarter to quarter and year to year. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I am not as pessimistic as he is about the target which we hope to achieve this year.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when the next official state visit of the head of a foreign state will be made to Scotland.

The President of the Italian Republic will spend three days in Scotland, from 25th to 27th April, as part of the state visit to this country which began yesterday.

The right hon. Gentleman will remember the very successful visit of King Olav to Scotland in particular. Perhaps another visit from a Head of State of a Scandinavian country —Finland, for example—could be arranged?

As the hon. Gentleman will appreciate, there were very special ties and links in respect of the visit he mentioned. Certainly, if a similar sort of situation arose it would be given serious consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will now make a statement on the rating of agricultural buildings.

The National Farmers Union of Scotland has provided my right hon. Friend with a very full account of its views on the rating of intensive livestock buildings, and he discussed this subject with it following its annual general meeting last month. He is considering its representations, together with the other relevant factors, and will make a statement as soon as possible.

Why is the Minister taking so long to come to a decision in principle on a matter about which he has a great deal of information? Is he aware that he could put a short Bill through the House this Session with all-party support?

I am aware that there is a number of short Bills that hon. Members opposite might help us to put through very quickly, but we cannot always solve complex problems in that way. We are investigating all the problems involved and will make a statement as soon as is opportune.

Will my hon. Friend ensure that any rate relief to farmers is not passed on to the other ratepayers?

This is a complex and in some ways controversial topic. All aspects will be taken into consideration.

I have always admitted that this is a very complex problem. But does not the hon. Gentleman think that the time has now come for a decision one way or another? Is he anxious to see the anomalies just go on increasing, or does he desire to restore the position to what the 1958 Act intended it to be? Can he assure us that at any rate we shall not necessarily be tied to a Bill about rating and valuation to decide something which is essentially an agricultural matter?

Hon. Members should await the statement that we shall make on this topic.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what further discussions he has had with local authorities concerning major developments in the Firth of Clyde.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps he proposes to take to implement the recommendations contained in the Metra-Weddle Report.

My hon. Friend the Minister of State's recent discussion with the Clyde Valley Planning Advisory Committee is relevant, and individual local authorities will be consulted when appropriate. The Murco application is the subject of an inquiry, and an application to build a power station at Inverkip is at present before me. Further planning action on the possible developments covered by the Metra-Weddle Report will depend on the submission of applications for development unless any of the local planning authorities concerned puts forward land use proposals in advance of the receipt of such applications.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that all hon. Members will wish this important development every success in the production of employment in Scotland and congratulate the Clyde Development Group on its initiative?

I thank the hon. Gentleman.

Will my right hon. Friend undertake to draw to the attention of his right hon. Friends the fact that the Clyde is the finest deep water anchorage in the United Kingdom and offers considerable advantages not only for Scottish but for United Kingdom industry? Will he undertake to bring what pressures he can to have the necessary political decision taken to build the iron ore terminal on the Clyde?

Yes. My hon. Friend thinks that this is a good commercial decision. [Interruption.] The attractions of the Clyde are as my hon. Friend has said. Because of its attractions to industry and the prospects and possibilities, we thought that the right way to handle this matter was to get a comprehensive report into which we could fit individual applications as they were made.

Before embracing the precise details of this Report too enthusiastically, will the Secretary of State take a look at 19th century industrial development which has been so costly in socio-economic terms and be careful not to make exactly the same mistake of allowing industrial ribbon development down the Clyde?

Our planning procedures today are slightly ahead of those of the nineteenth century. However, I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's concern. It is a concern which I share, as does every Scot who values the unique quality of the scenery of many parts of Scotland. Those things will be taken into consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he estimates the current shortage of teachers in Scottish primary schools will be overcome; and to what extent this is taken into account in the total number of married women now being trained in college.

I hope the national shortage will be overcome within the next year or two, although there may still be difficulty in some areas. I do not contemplate any restriction on the admission of married women to teacher training.

Is my hon. Friend aware that concern is being expressed in England by those undertaking teacher-training, both young and mature students, about finding that a job is not available when they have finished their training? Does he foresee similar concern being expressed in Scotland?

I am glad to say that I am not responsible for England. No such concern has been expressed in Scotland, and I do not think that it will arise there.

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that Glasgow is carrying more than its fair share of the teacher shortage? Can he give any idea of the percentage of children in Glasgow who are now receiving part-time education in primary schools?

If the hon. Gentleman will put down a Question about that, I will certainly answer it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received about the exclusion of Edinburgh, Leith and Portobello from the Scottish development area.

I would refer the hon. Member to the Answer I gave to the hon. Member for Glasgow, Pollok (Mr. Wright) on Wednesday, 12th March.—[Vol. 779, c. 284–5.]

Is the Secretary of State aware that his policy is strangling Edinburgh and merely transferring unemployment from one place to another, at considerable cost to the taxpayer? Is he aware that by the time we get the Hunt Report tomorrow it will be largely out of date because so many manufacturing firms have announced since the Hunt Committee took evidence that they are to leave Edinburgh?

The hon. Gentleman's feelings about this subject have overrun his ability to read and appreciate statistics. Edinburgh is one of the places where employment has increased.

Is my hon. Friend aware that during the last Recess I carried out a tour of industry in my constituency of Midlothian and that all the industrialists there who came from Edinburgh said that they had transferred from Edinburgh to Midlothian because in Edinburgh there was no room for expansion?

There is a certain amount of truth in that. There is no doubt that in Edinburgh there is limited room for expansion. I appreciate, however, the fears of those who see industry which has been in Edinburgh for some time leaving, but far too gloomy a view can be taken of that, as many people have been moving into Edinburgh after having spent a long time trying to get employment in their own areas.

Has not the right hon. Gentleman time and time again defended the exclusion of Edinburgh because of its low unemployment rate? Does it not now have a higher rate than many development areas, including Aberdeen? Do the Government wish the industry which Edinburgh possesses to leave it?

Despite the changes which have taken place, I cannot see Edinburgh becoming depressed or comparable with the areas in Scotland which demand most of our attention, such as the Glasgow area, Port Glasgow, Greenock and so on. Hon. Members should face the relative position of Edinburgh as compared with the rest of the country, although I agree that some parts of Edinburgh probably command more sympathy than others.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the average cost of building a four-apartment house in Scotland in 1964; and what was the average cost of building a similar house in 1968.

The average cost of building all types of four-apartment houses in the public sector, inclusive of land, site development and servicing and fees, was about £3,300 in 1964 and £4,400 in 1968. The increase in the average was caused by differences in the standards, type and location of houses as well as by increases in building costs.

Is it not rather absurd that at a time when it is obviously necessary to cut down the cost of housing as much as possible the Government should be deliberately putting it up, as we have seen from this substantial increase, by such things as S.E.T.?

The hon. Member has not given the factors their due weight. There are many factors. One which is significant and which we should all welcome is that some houses now have partial or complete central heating. Another is that there are far better housing layouts. These things are expensive.

Can my hon. Friend give us some information about earlier years and say what the cost was in 1960, for example?

The best estimate I have from the Department of the comparable cost in 1960 is slightly over £2,000. In other words, from 1960 to 1964 the increase was £1,300; our increase from 1964 to 1968 has been £1,100.

Surely it is pathetic for the Government to blame this increase upon central heating. Most of the increase has been the result of deliberate Government action, such as Selective Employment Tax, increased transport costs and the effects of devaluation.

Questions should be questions and not statements.

We are used to the hon. Gentleman's sweeping statements, but that was arrogance born of ignorance.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what estimate he has made of the numbers of wage-earners who satisfy the conditions laid down by building societies in order to secure a loan for newly built three and four apartment houses; and if he will make a statement.

I cannot make such an estimate because building societies do not operate uniform conditions but use a wide variety of criteria in deciding whether to make a loan. In 1967, one quarter of the new mortgage borrowers in Scotland earned less than £1,200 a year.

I thank my hon. Friend for that Answer. He will realise that the most important factor in determining whether one can have a loan for building new property is annual net earnings. Will he see whether the ratio of earnings and housing costs in Scotland is the main factor why there is such a vast difference between the number of owner-occupied houses being built in Scotland and the number being built in England and Wales?

I thank my hon. Friend for that. This deserves full examination and when we have the Sidwell Report we shall couple it with our information from the building societies. We have no evidence that building societies have any bias against wage earners, but if any hon. Member has such evidence, I should be happy to receive it.

In view of his well-known views about the effect of a Labour Government on the rates of charges by building societies, will enlisting the assistance of the right hon. Member for Belper (Mr. George Brown) be considered?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland by what percentage the numbers of murders and crimes of violence, respectively, increased between 1957 and 1968.

The number of murders made known to the police in Scotland increased from 12 in 1957 to 41 in 1968 (242 per cent.). In the same period crimes of violence increased from 1,116 to 3,586 (221 per cent.).

Since the figure for murder in 1968 has not yet been corrected in the light of subsequent judicial determination, uncorrected figures have been used for both years to ensure comparability. The figure for crimes of violence for 1968 is provisional.

In view of those frightening figures, is the hon. Gentleman not seriously concerned that in the first three months of this year net recruitment to the Scottish police forces came to only eight? Has he in mind any new initiatives to encourage recruiting and to reduce wastage?

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on looking for a positive answer, at least on this occasion. As the hon. Gentleman knows, we have now eased the partial restriction, and we hope that that will begin to bring the kind of results that we want.

Is the hon. Gentleman conducting any inquiry into the causes of the increase? If he is not doing so at present, would he consider a widespread inquiry of that kind because, if we do not know the causes, we cannot find solutions?

The hon. Lady should know that I have been conducting a continual inquiry ever since I began my present job. I have involved academic institutes and other professional experts, as well as doing my own investigations. She is quite right when she says that there is no simple answer. This is a multifarious problem and it requires a multifarious solution. I hope that the reports which have been published in the last few weeks dealing with possible social measures in Glasgow will give an indication of one way forward.

In view of the figures which my hon. Friend has given and in view of what he said in reply to that last question, will he say what sorts of solution to the problem are being entertained? Can he give us some guidance on the way in which his thoughts are developing?

I have outlined the matter at considerable length in debate in the House over the last few months as well as in the major debate on the Report of the Estimates Committee last year. There are two main ways of dealing with it. One is the possibility of increasing the strength of the police in terms of numbers, detection methods and equipment. We are doing that. The other is to take the right kinds of social measure, as outlined in the report I recently published on the Glasgow area. Yet another way is to discover by investigation the particular causes within a Scottish context, on which there is a good deal of information in other areas.

On this question of detection methods, while recognising the gravity of the problem, may I ask whether the hon. Gentleman has closed his mind to the possibility of widening the powers of search of the police?

I do not think that that is part of the solution. I looked at it very carefully throughout last year, and neither the events since that period of discussion nor my own thinking illustrate the need for it. My view then was that it might have created a more complex and difficult problem in our industrial cities. I still adhere to that view.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what estimate he has made of the additional cost to Glasgow ratepayers of establishing a passenger transport authority in the area.

None, Sir.

Is is not a shameful imposition on the ratepayers of Glasgow for the Minister to sit through four months of the Transport Bill providing for a P.T.A. without having any estimate of what it would cost? Can we at least have an assurance that he will not impose a P.T.A. on the Glasgow ratepayers without the agreement of the Glasgow Council?

One cannot make an estimate when one does not know the area designated, the nature of the services which the P.T.A. will want to operate if it is set up, or the level of fares likely to be charged. It is quite ridiculous to imagine that anyone could make an estimate of that kind.

As to the second part of the hon. Gentleman's question, which is that we should give the power of veto to any one authority not to impose a P.T.A. on any part of Scotland even if the others are willing, I am afraid that I cannot agree to that.

On a point of order. In view of the highly unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's answers, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what large and small burghs have built the most houses, stating the number of private and local authority houses, from 1962 to 1968, respectively; and what is their position relative to other large and small burghs in Scotland.

My right hon. Friend has written to my hon. Friend about the available information.

While thanking my hon. Friend for that information, which illustrates clearly that this Government have built substantially more private and local authority houses than the Conservative Party did when it was in power, is he satisfied with the present method put into operation by local authorities to ascertain housing needs? What action does he propose to take, for example, with local authorities which, despite the fact that there may be a housing need in their areas, do not build any houses?

There are two points here about public sector and private sector housing. My hon. Friend knows how energetic the Government have been in drawing to the attention of all authorities the need to clear their waiting lists for public sector housing. My hon. Friend is quite right in what he says about private sector housing. We built 8,720 houses last year, which is the biggest figure since 1934. I would insist that it is our intention, through my right hon. Friend and the Land Commission, to see that we get a higher level of private house building in Scotland.

Order. Questions and Answers are lengthening.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what consultation he had with road and highways authorities prior to his publication of the White Paper for "Roads in the Seventies", and what fuller consultation he now proposes to have.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what consultations he had with road and highway authorities and regional economic groups before publishing the White Paper on "Roads in the Seventies".

In addition to consulting organisations representing road users and many other interests, my Department invited written comments from the local authority associations, and had meetings with them, on the basis of a draft which had been considered by the Scottish Economic Planning Council. The Consultative Groups have all regularly expressed their views on road priorities in their areas. As stated in the White Paper, there will be continuing discussion with individual local authorities on the details of the schemes to be undertaken in their areas.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for his reply, can he say whether Glasgow Corporation has entered into consultations with him and, if so, what its attitude is to the White Paper proposals?

The White Paper proposals have produced general agreement, and we have had discussions with and comment from Glasgow.

Is the Minister aware of the disappointment in the Borders that the proposals put forward by the Borders Economic Consultative Group have not appeared in the White Paper? What weight will he attach to its representations in the continuing discussions?

Its representations carry considerable weight, speaking as it does for the local authorities in the area, and the Chairman of the Consultative Group is a member of the Economic Planning Council.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what reports he has received from health authorities regarding the health of council tenants; and if he will make a statement.

None. My Department receives annual reports from medical officers of health and sanitary inspectors of local authorities, but the information provided does not distinguish between council and other tenants.

Does not that reply, coming from such a reputable source, confirm the view that there is no evidence of a decline in the moral fibre or otherwise of council house tenants in Scotland, as stated by the hon. Member for Edinburgh, North (Earl of Dalkeith)? May we have an assurance that on grounds of economy my hon. Friend will not institute an inquiry into the health of wealthy landowners in Scotland who receive subsidies for forestry and agriculture?

I think that I can give that assurance; yes.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many local authorities have submitted plans for comprehensive education; and how many are outstanding.

All 35 authorities have submitted proposals for the reorganisation of secondary education on comprehensive lines, and these have now been wholly or substantially approved. Most of the proposals approved cover the whole area of the authority; in a few instances those for particular localities are still under discussion.

Can my hon. Friend answer the latter part of the Question? How many are still outstanding? If they are few in number, will he name them?

There are no proposals outstanding in the sense that every authority has submitted proposals. There are one or two areas where detailed matters remain to be considered but, by and large, the proposals have been agreed.

Will the hon. Gentleman recognise that many local authorities do not accept the Socialist view that comprehensive education must be right for everyone everywhere? Will he restore freedom to local education authorities and bring to an end his shameful policy of coercion?

That is an absolutely absurd question. We have had excellent co-operation from local education authorities in implementing the suggestions in Circular 600. I certainly do not equate freedom in education, or the right kind of secondary education, with the question of fee-paying in local authority schools, as the hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends do.

Is the Minister aware that comprehensive education has been the traditional form of education in Scotland and that it has a worldwide reputation? Perhaps hon. Gentlemen opposite are not acquainted with Scottish education.

That would not surprise me. As my right hon. Friend says, the idea of comprehensive reorganisation is not new in Scotland, and we have found ready acceptance of the idea among local education authorities.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects to receive the report of the Sidwell investigation into house building costs in Scotland.

In the autumn of 1970.

Will the Minister accept that it is thoroughly unsatisfactory that a Report into comparative house prices north and south of the Border should take three years at a time when the Building Societies Association's figures show that a new house in Scotland is anything up to £1,000 dearer than a comparable house in the North of England and the Midlands? Will he press for an interim Report on this important topic?

I have a great deal of sympathy with my hon. Friend. I have discussed this matter with Professor Sidwell. He is commissioned to do a thorough Report and he is firm in the belief that he will not be able to complete it before the autumn of 1970. However, he issued a first interim Report in October last year, and I am assured that we shall get a further interim Report in October this year from which we shall seek to learn lessons.

Will the comprehensiveness of the Sidwell Report include a written assessment of the extra costs put on Scottish house building by numerous Government impositions such as S.E.T. and transport charges during the last few years?

That remains to be seen, Professor Sidwell is an objective man who will seek to put into his Report all the genuine factors, apart from political factors, that there have been over the years.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what proposals he has received from Aberdeen Corporation regarding alterations in the agreed scheme of comprehensive reorganisation of schools.

The new proposals have not yet been put to me in detail but I understand that they provide for five "all through" comprehensive schools and five "four-year" schools.

Will my hon. Friend accept that a large body of independent opinion in Aberdeen is appalled at the prospect of the scheme, which will perpetuate every division which comprehensive reorganisation is supposed to eliminate and can only result in the educational victimisation of a large number of children? Will he give it short shrift?

I am aware of these views. One difficulty is that details have not been submitted to me. Therefore, I am not able to judge what are the educational grounds, if any, on which the decision of the authority has recently been changed. But, when the proposals come in, I shall consider them very carefully.

When the Minister studies the problem again, will he bear in mind that, while comprehensive education has a fine part to play in the Scottish system, it has never been the informed educational opinion of Scotland that comprehensive education should be imposed on local authorities to the exclusion of all else?

What has happened in Aberdeen is that the proposals for comprehensive reorganisation, which were accepted, have now been changed. I find it difficult to know what are the educational grounds, if any, on which the change has been made.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will publish an interim report on the progress made towards the 1971 targets regarding the provision of roads, housing, new jobs, and in solving the emigration problem.

A formal interim report could not usefully add to the statistics on these matters that are regularly made available in the Digest of Scottish Statistics and in other official publications.

Will my right hon. Friend say whether in his opinion we are reasonably on target as outlined in the five-year plan? In particular, will he confirm that there is a continuing favourable trend in the net emigration figures?

My hon. Friend will know the figures, because I have given them often enough. On roads, we are well up to target—probably beyond it—and it will be achieved by 1970.

The last two years have been record years in house building.

Our fulfilment on the provision of new jobs is almost double what was achieved by the previous Administration. They seem to be the only people in Scotland who are not aware of the progress being made.

Last year the drift south was the lowest figure achieved for about nine years.

Is not the Secretary of State hampered in making economic forecasts about jobs by the lack of information on Scotland's vital statistics?

I take a great interest in vital statistics. I assure the hon. Lady that I have never been hampered by lack of information. I think that what the hon. Lady means is statistics about our economic development. This Government have provided and have set out to get more statistics to light the path towards progress than any other Government.

Will the Secretary of State look at page 9 of his White Paper of 1966 where it is recorded that in the four years 1960 to 1964 157,000 new jobs were created, whereas his target over six years is 130,000, which is considerably less? Therefore, what he has just said is not correct.

What I said just now is absolutely correct. Anyone can do what the hon. Gentleman is doing. If one selects two dates carefully one can get the answer one wants. I have already answered a Question about the 130,000 gross new jobs promised. The figures are correct. There are other aspects about which the hon. Gentleman has not thought.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what has been the increase in public spending on housing, education, health, roads, and in the Highlands in the last four years, as compared with the previous four years, expressed in 1960 prices.

Figures cannot be provided at 1960 prices, or for years before 1962–63. I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT figures of public expenditure in Scotland, at current prices, on housing, education, health and roads in the years 1963–64 and 1967–68, and an estimate of the expenditure in the same years in the Highlands and Islands by my Departments and the Forestry Commission.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. I am sure that the figures will be extremely satisfactory.

I can assure my hon. Friend, if he wants the aggregate figures, that it is an increase between these two years of £228 million.

Will the right hon. Gentleman give some indication by how much his plans have had to be cut back in the last year?

When we have had to cut back our plans we have given the information to the House straight away.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has had from Glasgow Corporation amending the progress on the outline comprehensive redevelopment schemes.

None, Sir.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that any setback in housing in Glasgow is almost a criminal act, and will he take every step to ensure that that does not happen? Will he also take note that Glasgow is one of the few local authorities in Scotland which has not taken advantage of the rating of empty property?

On the second point, I accept that that is a matter for the Corporation, because we have provided for that in the Act.

On the first point, I entirely agree. Because of the change in administration and the decisions taken thereafter, Glasgow has lost 2,500 houses.

Will the Minister indicate what reasons were advanced by Glasgow Corporation for cancelling the Partick redevelopment scheme?

The governing party there, supported by another minority party in the Corporation, decided to withdraw the Partick, North and South C.D.A. because of objections by local shopkeepers and they want to resubmit it to the Secretary of State.

Is it not a fact that in that area, which is in my constituency, many of the houses are in excellent condition and that there are other areas in Glasgow far more in need of being developed before the Partick area?

I accept some of the points made by the hon. Gentleman. However, I should point out that the last time the Scottish Office approved a C.D.A. in Glasgow was 9th June, 1966. We were promised three C.D.A.s in the interval between then and the end of last year. We have not received one. Partick was to be the next one.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how much educational building he estimates will be started in 1970; and how this compares with 1968.

It is not possible to forecast starts with any accuracy for calendar years. I shall be in touch with education authorities shortly about the allocation of starts for the financial year 1970–71, which takes in the greater part of the calendar year 1970.

As the hon. Gentleman has given no information I shall not ask a supplementary question.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will list the local authorities which had not achieved by 1967 a rate of 10 per 1,000 houses in their granting of housing improvement grants; and which authorities have not operated the scheme.

The numbers of local authorities are 24 and five respectively. I will circulate details in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

As the Collingworth Report described the decision of certain local authorities not to give these grants as inexcusable, and sometimes because they did not wish to support the private housing sector, will the hon. Gentleman make sure that these authorities carry out the Government's policy by making these grants mandatory?

I should not like to give a definite answer to that at this juncture. I should like to consider it. I agree that all kinds of pressure could be brought to bear on these authorities to give grants. I think, therefore, that it would be fair to call on the hon. Gentleman to persuade Whithorn in his constituency to do so, on the hon. Member for Roxburgh, Selkirk and Peebles (Mr. David Steel)—I am sure that his local authority will readily help him in Lauder—on the hon. Member for Perth and East Perthshire (Mr. MacArthur) in relation to Alyth, on the hon. Member for Ayr (Mr. Younger) in relation to Ayr, and on the hon. Member for Moray and Nairn (Mr. Gordon Campbell) in relation to Grantown-on-Spey.

Order. Lists make long answers.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the total acreage of sugar beet contracted with the Cupar sugar factory for the current season.

The figure is 13,642 acres as at 18th April.

In view of the increased costs which have arisen since the Price Review, and as there has been no increase in the price of sugar beet, does the hon. Gentleman agree that if this splendid increase is to be maintained the Government must give long-term assurances to the sugar beet growers in Scotland?

The hon. Gentleman knows some of the difficulties behind that question, but it is worth saying that in 1963 when his Government halved the transport subvention beet acreage likewise halved. We have doubled the transport subvention, and doubled the acreage, and I find that very satisfactory.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many representations he has received asking for the provision of season ticket facilities for the Forth and Tay Road Bridges; and what reply he has sent.

Eight relating to the Forth Bridge and five to the Tay Bridge since the bridges opened. No reply was sent to six as they were part of objections to the recently proposed increases in tolls on the Forth Bridge. The others were sent to the respective Joint Boards for their consideration.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that there is a case for looking at the regulations to enable regular users of these bridges to have season tickets on the basis of a discount, rather than on the basis allowed by the present regulation?

It is for the joint boards to express their views on that.

Can my hon. Friend say when the report on the projected toll increases is expected to be published, and will he say whether he has ruled out completely the abolition of tolls?

I cannot give a date for the report. If there were difficulties in Fife we should have to look at the question of tolls, but I am glad to say that Fife is a booming county.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he now expects to annonce his proposals as a result of the Hunter Committee Report.

I would refer my hon. Friend to the Answer I gave to the Question which he asked on 23rd October, 1968; I cannot yet add to it.—[Vol. 770, c. 1272–3.]

Is it accepted that a great many worth-while things can be done for Scottish anglers without involving the Chancellor at all?

I think that my hon. Friend is suggesting that I should bring in some interim proposals. I have said repeatedly, and I say again, that I should prefer to deal with the recommendations of the Hunter Committee as a single entity.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that he is being incredibly dilatory, even for him and his Government? Is he aware that already tests are being made on one of the English rivers to count by electronic methods the number of salmon going up the rivers? That was one of the main recommendations of the Hunter Report. Why cannot it be done in Scotland?

That is a perfect example of why we were correct in taking time. One of the proposals was to have a more expensive method of counting. Time has allowed research to take place, and a cheaper method has come forward. This illustrates our correctness in taking time to consider very fully all the implications of the Report.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what estimate he has made of the additional costs which will have to be borne by milk producers during the next 12 months; what these costs are; and what additional income it is estimated milk producers will receive as a result of the awards made in the recent Price Review.

Known cost changes are assessed on a United Kingdom basis and cannot be precisely allocated to individual commodities. The determinations at this year's Review increased the value of the guarantees to Scottish milk producers by about £330,000.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that Scottish milk producers will inevitably be heavily out of pocket as a result of this Review because of the rise in the price of feeding stuffs and fertilisers? When the right hon. Gentleman says that it is no use increasing dairy herds unless there is an increase in the sales of liquid milk, why cannot he consider the potential savings in imports of cheese and butter?

The hon. Gentleman knows the complexity of this problem. In his earlier argument he ignored the problem that arises in connection with milk products. There are other aspects of the Review which will be of benefit to most farmers in addition to dairy farmers.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland to what extent the recent price review awards were designed to stop the fall in the numbers of those employed on Scottish farms.

Labour requirements were among the factors taken into account at the Annual Review.

In that case, is the hon. Gentleman entirely unaware of the fact that it is no longer possible, by mechanisation, to absorb the decrease in the labour force that has been taking place, and which is now down to crisis levels? The wage increase of 16s. a week from next month will not be enough to keep men on the land.

I hope that the farming community will note the latter remarks of the hon. Member. The Board's proposals are for minimum wages. This does not prevent the hon. Gentleman on his farm, or any of his colleagues on their farms, from adding to those wages.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland by which date in 1970 the employment targets contained in the Command Paper entitled The Scottish Economy, 1965–1970, will be reached.