asked the Minister of Overseas Development what contribution he is proposing to make to the Government of Tonga in respect of the cost of the second airfield at Vava'u in Tonga ; and on what factors he is basing his decision.

At the request of the Tonga Government I arranged for two experts to report on aviation development and to survey an alternative site on Vava'u. This report is expected very shortly. Meanwhile, the British Government have not been asked for a contribution.

Is the Minister aware that it is widely thought in the Pacific area that the reason a second airfield is required is that the original advice proved to be faulty? In these circumstances, will he be quite certain that no steps will be taken except on good advice?

The hon. Gentleman had a Question down at the end of last year about the earlier site. I assure him that the two inquiries which have taken place will ensure that no action is taken that is not likely to be quite successful.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether, in view of recent increases in school fees, he will again increase allowances to members of Her Majesty's Overseas Civil Service serving abroad whose children are at schools in the United Kingdom.

A review of these allowances has already been put in hand and I will inform the hon. Member of the result in due course.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the last review took place in September and that it took into consideration factors which were about six months behind the times? We are now in the middle of the next year. Is it not about time that action was taken?

As I have said, the matter is being reviewed. Allowances for people serving under the Overseas Aid Scheme are closely related to the allowances for those home civil servants who are seconded for duty overseas. This question is largely the responsibility of the Civil Service Department, but I will inform the hon. Member as soon as a result is achieved.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary bear in mind that the increase in school fees referred to—there are 30 such schools; for example, Malvern, in my constituency—takes effect from October this year on account of the advanced selective employment tax and other increased charges? Could not these overseas civil servants receive their increased allowances from October this year?

I assure the hon. Gentleman that all the factors that he has put forward concerning increased fees and dates will be taken into account in the review.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development how many representations from organised bodies in Scotland have been received this year about expenditure on overseas development.

I have received 25 letters this year from organisations in Scotland asking for an increase in the overseas aid programme. A very large number of similar letters has been received by other Ministers, especially my right hon. Friends the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

In thanking my right hon. Friend for that Answer, may I ask whether he is not aware—as, no doubt, he must be—contrary to views expressed in some quarters in the country, that there is enthusiasm for more overseas aid to be given and that, as he has stated to the House, young people and church leaders are writing to ask us to try to influence the giving of more aid?

Yes, there is a good deal of evidence that in the last year or so there has been a considerable increase in the number of people actively concerned in this matter, especially young people, who want us to make a larger contribution towards fighting poverty throughout the world.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development if he will consult member and applicant States of the European Economic Community on the development of a multi-national European programme of technical assistance by young people in the developing countries.

I would refer my right hon. Friend to the Reply given to a similar Question from the hon. Member for Bury St. Edmunds (Mr. Eldon Griffiths) on the 19th June.—[Vol. 785 c. 147.]

Since this country has so much more experience in this field—through V.S.O., for example—than any other country, will not my hon. Friend do what he can to offer that experience to our neighbouring countries in Western Europe?

I certainly have a good deal of sympathy with the idea of international programmes of service for young people, but my right hon. Friend will, I am sure, be aware that there is no scheme in Europe similar to that indicated in his Question. As to the future, my right hon. Friend should know that the United Nations is initiating a discussion about the feasibility of a United Nations volunteer programme. This will shortly be discussed at E.C.O.S.O.C. and I would prefer to know the outcome of that discussion before embarking on my right hon. Friend's European idea.

Does the Minister have plans to encourage employers and trade unons at home to co-operate in the national scheme?

Indeed. We are constantly in touch with both trade unions and employers. During last year I had meetings representative of both sides at the Ministry and had a good deal of helpful discussion with them.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what plans he has for development projects to assist the tourist industry in Mauritius.

I have had no requests from the Government of Mauritius to assist projects concerned with the development of tourism.

What alternative propositions will the Minister be able to put to Prime Minister Ramgoolam when he comes this month?

My hon. Friend will appreciate that it is for the Government of the country concerned to put propositions to us within the context of their development plans. A good deal of the work which we do is helping with infrastructure that may attract tourism. For example, the survey which we have just undertaken of the road network in Mauritius will be helpful in this respect.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what steps he is taking to implement the Estimates Committee's recommendation that overseas official aid should be increasingly concentrated on those countries which offer the greatest potential markets.

I accepted the recommenclation of the Estimates Committee and intend to take account of it in future aid programmes. At present opportunities are limited by the constraints of a programme fixed at a constant level.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that free enterprise and free movement of capital are by far the best and most suitable mechanism in identifying market opportunities, and would not the most constructive conclusion to be drawn from the Estimates Committee's Report be that the activities of his Department should diminish and those of free enterprise increase?

No. In fact, the Estimates Committee came to exactly the opposite conclusion, and what is needed in developing countries is both Government aid to provide the sort of things which private enterprise will not provide—roads and schools and that sort of development—plus private investment to help the formation of productive capacity. What those countries need is both, not one or the other.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what adjustment he proposes to make in the figure of £235 million, reported in Command Paper No. 3936 as planned overseas aid expenditure in 1970–71 at 1969–70 estimated prices, to take account of increases in the prices of aid-financed goods.

None, Sir. The figure of £235 million is in cash terms.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that if only £235 million is allowed in the Estimates for 1970–71 this will be less in real terms than that provided for in the White Paper?

Yes, this is true, and I am glad my hon. Friend has called attention to this matter for the sake of clarifying it. There is in fact a reduction of something like £5 million or £6 million a year in real terms on recent experience. The real value of the programme is bound to go down as long as it is couched in the same level in cash terms.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what estimate his Department has now made of the net cost across the exchanges of the British aid programme during the current financial year.

A recent study of the economic planning staff of my Department confirms previous estimates that the foreign exchange costs are about one-third of the whole. This estimate takes no account of the repayment of past aid loans, which benefit the balance of payments; nor of the export orders which result from other countries' aid programmes.

In the light of that reply, which I very much welcome, will my right hon. Friend make the most powerful representations to the Treasury that it cannot argue that exchange considerations should in any way hold back expansion of our aid programme?

I cannot reveal to the House what I might or might not say to the Treasury, but I think my commitment to the concept of an expanding aid programme is well known.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what is the value of official aid at constant prices for each of the financial years 1966–67 to date.

Taking as the base year 1966–67, when official aid was £216 million, the £215 million of aid provided in 1967–68 was worth £210 million and a provisional figure of £212 million provided in 1968–69 was worth £201 million.

Noting the trend of these figures, may I ask whether my right hon. Friend would agree that overseas aid amply repays this country, even if one looks at it simply in a Scrooge-like way, and certainly repays those who think they have some moral responsibility to assist less fortunate peoples in the world?

Yes. Taking that second point about our self-interest, I think that if one looks at the effect on our balance of payments, long-term or short-term, it is clear that our balance of payments would be worse if we had had no aid programmes in the last ten years.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development when it is proposed to initiate discussions on the next Replenishment of the International Development Association.

I appreciate my hon. Friend's desire to make progress in this matter. But the Second Replenishment of I.D.A. resources is not yet operative, and until it is it would be premature to undertake discussions on a Third Replenishment.

But would my right hon. Friend not agree that what he has just said constitutes the strongest reason for beginning discussions at an earlier date? Is he not aware of the fact that a very long period indeed elapsed before getting the Second Replenishment going? Does he not think that that strengthens the case, therefore, for making an early start with the discussions on the third?

I agree that it has taken a long time to get the Second Replenishment going but my hon. Friend will be aware of the reasons for that. The United States Congress has now passed the I.D.A. Bill and, therefore, I would expect that the United States will soon be in a position to notify the World Bank of their acceptance so that the Second Replenishment can take effect. I would think it would not be very long before discussions started on the Third Replenishment.

I wonder if the right hon. Gentleman could add to that and tell the House whether there are any other members who have not yet ratified their own contributions to the Replenishment? Or does what he has just said about the American action mean that the last obstacle to enabling the Association to put its plans into effect is now removed?

There has been a small number of other countries which have not ratified. I think that in most cases they were waiting to see whether the United States would do so. However, I think the main point here is that once the United States have done so the necessary ratio of resources has been committed and the Second Replenishment can go ahead.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what further plans he has for systematic reporting on the work of his Department.

In the next few weeks I shall publish the Memorandum on the British aid programme submitted to the Development Assistance Committee of O.E.C.D. as part of its annual aid review. This will be an extensive review of development work in 1968. Our annual Statistical Bulletin will be further improved this year, taking into account some of the suggestions of the Estimates Committee.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask him whether he can give any indication to the House what action the Government will take to create a feeling of dynamic participation in the Second Development Decade amongst the British population, particularly the younger people of the British population?

Well, the Government work in many ways, particularly my Department, to create a greater understanding of the development needs, and understanding of what Britain can do to help respond to them. Certainly, as the plans for the Second Decade unfold during this autumn and this winter, information has to be related particularly to the concepts of the Decade.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what assistance he is giving to make new educational methods and techniques available to the developing countries.

I regard this as a very important and growing part of our aid to education in the developing countries. I am planning to set up a new Centre under the Chairmanship of Sir Lionel Russell, C.B.E., which will be primarily responsible for advising and helping developing countries on all matters concerning curriculum reform and new teaching techniques. It will incorporate a number of existing bodies and will cooperate closely with the B.B.C., the British Council and other interested organisations.

Whilst thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, and expressing pleasure at this announcement, may I ask whether, for example, there will be any concentration of development on new methods in primary education, and what amount of money it is expected these projects will cost?

I anticipate that a great deal of work will be in the primary field, though I could not separate it without notice, or even with notice, because a lot of the work will overlap.

Yes, but the House will be wanting to know what the cost is likely to be. May I take the opportunity to welcome the announcement which the right hon. Gentleman has just made? I can think of few ways in which a more useful contribution could be made to overseas development than this.

I can give the figures. I did not respond to the question of my hon. Friend the Member for Eton and Slough (Miss Lestor) because I thought it related to primary education. At the moment the cost is about £150,000, and it is expected to go up to £256,000 and to rise to some extent in subsequent years.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what assistance he is giving to British Honduras to build a new captial.

I have just sent a message to the Premier to say that we will provide a further £807,000. This brings our total contribution to the new capital to £4,932,000. I am also ready to consider possible help towards the move to the new capital, which is expected to take place next year.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, which recalls the decision to assist in the building of the new capital arose out of the dreadful hurricane and loss of lives, and also the commitment of the previous Government to assist, may I ask him whether he will assure the House that every possible speed will be put into removing to the new capital when it is provided?

Yes. In particular, we are in consultation with the Governor about the possible help and advice which British Honoduras may need on social and other aspects of the move when it takes place next year.

Will the Minister confirm, or otherwise, that the Prime Minister, Mr. Price, will be coming to discuss this and other projects in the colony?

Not without notice.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether he will now resume development aid and assistance to Tanzania.

No, Sir. The situation has not changed since the debate in the House on 26th July last year, when I explained why we had found it necessary to discontinue aid to Tanzania.

When will the Government reconsider this lamentably shortsighted attitude? Tanzania needs overseas technical assistance. Will it be left exclusively to the Chinese and the Russians to supply it?

I think that my hon. Friend is aware of the great regret I felt about the need to discontinue aid to Tanzania, but he is also aware of the reasons for it. Because of those reasons, I see no early prospect of resuming aid.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development how much official aid has been sent to areas under Biafran control since June, 1967, to the latest convenient date.

None, directly. Colonel Ojukwu refuses to accept aid from Her Majesty's Government. Since June, 1967, the Government have, however, contributed £950,000 to the International Red Cross, which is providing relief on both sides of the fighting line.

Will my right hon. Friend agree that need knows no frontiers and no Governments, and that the figure of £950,000 is pitiful in view of the great tragedy which is being enacted in that country? Will he make fresh overtures to try to establish links between this country and the Biafran Government so that further assistance can be rendered?

In reply to the first part of the question on the quantity of aid, we have played a substantial part in the effort of financing the International Red Cross. On the question of new contacts, I understand that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs will be answering a Private Notice Question at 3.30 this afternoon, and I do not want to anticipate what he might say.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development how much official aid has been sent to Nigeria since June, 1967, to the latest convenient date.

The total amount of official development aid given to the Federal Military Government of Nigeria between June, 1967, and March, 1969, was about £8·6 million. In addition, in the same period some £970,000 was given by Her Majesty's Government to relief purposes in the war stricken areas.

While welcoming my right hon. Friend's reply, may I ask whether exact accounting methods are used to make certain that the money is spent on the projects for which it is intended, since there have been rumours that some money intended for aid has been diverted to military use? Can my right hon. Friend deny this?

I can deny it emphatically. We have efficient methods of making sure in Nigeria, and in any other part of the world, that aid provided by the British taxpayer is used for the purpose for which it is intended.

Will the Minister bear in mind the immense need for medical help for those wounded in the war?

Yes, Sir, that is why the Government have made this contribution to the Red Cross, to which many private citizens in this country have also contributed.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what attention is being given by his department to problems of loss during storage of foodstuffs donated under the World Food Programme arrangements.

The Tropical Products Centre, which is a department of the Tropical Products Institute, is the consultant to the Programme on the storage, transportation and handling of food. The Centre is training all the World Food Programme Project officers in ways of preventing the deterioriation of stored food ; it has completed a handbook on the subject for the World Food Programme and provides specialists to advise recipient and donor countries on their problems in this field.

Since it is such a tragedy that food which is so badly needed should be lost in this way, will my hon. Friend say what time will elapse before these losses can be prevented, and how many officers have so far been trained for this work?

This is a continuing problem, and it is not easy to put a time scale to it. In reply to the latter part of my hon. Friend's question, in each of the years 1967 and 1968 there were three courses, at which 24 officers were trained. In 1969, four courses will be given and 32 officers will receive the benefit of training.

While I agree that it is difficult to put a time scale on this, is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Food and Agriculture Organisation of the United Nations recently estimated that because of pests, disease and weeds the world loses up to 48,000 million dollars worth of food every year? Does not he agree that research and technical assistance in this field can do more than anything else to ease the world food problem?

I certainly agree with the hon. Gentleman in attaching importance to this problem. As I have said, we are doing an important job and increasing our expert knowledge on this subject.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development in view of the increasing demand for bread in the developing countries, what his Department is doing to find ways of using non-wheat flours in bread making.

The Tropical Products Institute, which is part of my Department, has set up a test bakery to develop ways of making bread from a mixture of wheat flour and starches derived from cassava, maize or millet, fortified with protein supplement.

Will the results of this research be made available to developing countries, and is this country producing machinery for the production of flour from non-wheat substances?

All information derived from these researches is readily available to the Governments of developing countries. I am glad to say that the machinery which is recommended is of British manufacture.

Will the Minister make sure, before flour of any kind is despatched from this country, that there will be no delays at the Customs, as recently happened when 12,000 tons of Australian flour was held up in Nigeria until it went rotten?

This is a rather different question from the one on the Order Paper. I am aware of the problem and will have it in mind if it arises in connection with our efforts.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether his Department will assist overseas governments in finding markets for their agricupltural produce in Great Britain and Europe.

Yes, Sir. Advice on the marketing of cash crops is given by the Tropical Products Institute. Marketing problems will feature, for instance, at a Conference on Tropical and Sub-Tropical Fruits to be held by the Institute next September, at which the delegates will include fruit producers from developing countries and importers from Europe and Britain.

Will administrative machinery be available for providing this advice to cash crop producers in the countries concerned?

As I said in answer to an earlier question, the Tropical Products Institute is very much concerned with getting the result of its researches to the Governments. Indeed, this is its main purpose in life, so my hon. Friend can be assured on this point.

Does not the Minister think that Question No. 25 is slightly contradictory to Question No. 24? Would not it be better for the countries themselves to use their food surpluses rather than that they should be encouraged to send them to this country to the detriment of our farmers and of this country's import bill?

I see no contradition in these two Questions.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether he will increase the level of technical assistance given to developing countries to assist that section of their population working in the field of subsistence agriculture; and whether he will make a statement.

As is indicated in paragraphs 11–12 of the recent White Paper Cmnd. 3976, it is already my right hon. Friend's policy to increase aid and technical assistance for food and agricultural development, including the subsistence sector, which is of course predominant in the agriculture of most developing countries.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that reply, but will not he acknowledge that between 70 and 90 per cent. of the population of developing countries is employed in agriculture, and that the highest priority should be given to development in subsistence agriculture?

I fully acknowledge the overwhelming importance of this sector of agriculture for developing countries, but I ask my hon. Friend to bear in mind that we cannot devote our technical assistance exclusively to this, because foreign exchange earnings through the export of cash crops are also very important to the budgets of developing countries.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what is the average delay in transferring pensions paid locally in Commonwealth countries and which are ultimately required to be paid in the country in which the pensioner is resident.

As overseas pensioners, who elect to have their pensions paid locally, are themselves responsible for the remission to the countries in which they reside, I do not have the relevant information.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that pensioners in Her Majesty's Overseas Civil Service from Tanzania resident in South Africa, and also pensioners from Ghana and Nigeria, are suffering considerable hardship? Is there not a case for again looking into the question as to whether all pensions should not be taken over by Her Majesty's Government and aid reduced accordingly?

I am aware of the difficulties in relation to Nigeria and Tanzania. In the case of Tanzania, there have been successful approaches through the High Commission in Dar-es-Salaam and we seem to have overcome the difficulty in that instance. The hon. Gentleman will recognise that it is a much more serious problem in relation to Nigeria because of the stringent exchange regulations as a result of the war there.

Would my hon. Friend agree that it is a ridiculous concept that these pensions should be regarded as aid at all? Is it not high time that we revised our policy on this important matter?

This matter was fully debated in the House recently. I have nothing to add to what my right hon. Friend said on that occasion.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what arrangements he will now make regarding pensions payable to former members of Her Majesty's Overseas Civil Service or of the old Colonial Service in Rhodesia.

Security Council Resolution No. 253 expressly permits the payment of such pensions. I do not envisage that the closing of Rhodesia House or withdrawal of our Residual Mission in Salisbury will affect the payment of overseas pensions in Rhodesia.

Is the Minister aware that that statement will be received with joy by some of the pensioners who cannot possibly leave Rhodesia, even if they want to, because they cannot sell their houses?

I recognise that.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what plans he has for increasing the value of disregards in assessing claims for supplementary benefits.

I assume that my hon. Friend is referring to the main amounts of disregard specified in the Ministry of Social Security Act. There are no plans at present for increases in these amounts; such increases would only benefit those who are already living above the normal supplementary benefit levels.

Could my hon. Friend say whether these disregards will be looked at when the supplementary benefits are increased in the autumn? Is he aware, for instance, that the derisory increase of £1 a week in pension to miners is being inhibited by the knowledge that if the pension is increased a consequent amount will be deducted from the supplementary benefit?

I am aware of my hon. Friend's concern, but he will agree that the present disregard means that the retired miners who have an occupational pension and are on supplementary benefit already are £1 a week better off than the person without the disregarded income? If we extend disregards too far it will undermine the main purpose of the supplementary benefit scheme, which seeks to bring people's other resources up to a guaranteed level. Furthermore, it will not help the poorest people who are on supplementary benefit.

Could the hon. Gentleman confirm that the increased charges for teeth and spectacles when they come into operation will be disregarded for supplementary benefit?

Any increases in that direction will operate, as they have always operated in the past, under the supplementary benefit scheme.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will institute an inquiry into the extent and effect of changes being made in the contracts of employed persons seeking to transfer themselves into a self-employed category.

A regular check is made on the numbers of insured persons contributing as employed, self-employed and non-employed. There has been a increase in the number of self-employed in recent years, but this is very small in relation to the total number of persons in employment. I do not think that a general inquiry is called for.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the growing number needs to be looked into? There is a considerable increase in the service and distributive trades, with people transferring to the self-employed category in order to avoid taxation, and this can have a detrimental effect on payments made to persons concerned.

As I said in the original Answer, the actual increase is very small; but there has been an increase, particularly in the construction industry. The increase in this industry is one of the matters upon which the Phelps Brown Committee has been reporting, and the Government are now considering the Report and the action they will take.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will expedite plans to provide the Social Security office facilities at Chelmsley Wood.

The Chelmsley Wood area is at present catered for by two offices in Washwood Heath, which are to be merged in new premises this August. The southern part of the area will, however, eventually be covered by a new office in South Yardley, more conveniently situated than the present one. An additional office in Chelmsley Wood itself would not at present be justified, but we shall keep the possible future need for such an office in mind.

Does the Minister realise that Chelmsley Wood, when the office is completed in two and a half years, will have a population greater than the city of Worcester? There is already considerable evidence of hardship caused by people having to travel long distances to take advantage of health and social security services? Could he consider the possibility of temporary provision in the meantime until a final decision is reached?

No. I am aware of the position. As I have said, we are keeping an eye on this area, in regard to the possible future need for such an office. We will keep it very much in mind.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what is his estimate of the number of retirement pensioners and of other recipients of Social Security payments who next November will not receive as a net addition to their incomes the full increases proposed in the Budget Statement.

As the right hon. Gentleman will recall from the days when he had responsibility for these matters, this will depend, to take the main factors, on the numbers with supplementary benefit, or with less than the standard rate of insurance benefit or with a liability to income tax, and on the extent to which these categories overlap.

Does the hon. Gentleman dispute that the number is likely to be of the order of 2 million? To minimise disappointment among a large number of people next November, will he so arrange any advance publicity to make it clear in advance that substantial numbers will not benefit by the advertised figures?

The arrangements for increases in supplementary benefit have been made widely known. They will be made more widely known when the Regulations are debated on Thursday. I will ensure by means of publicity that it is understood that the recipients of supplementary benefit received an increase last October.

In addition to giving publicity to those facts, will my hon. Friend also give publicity to the fact that those on supplementary benefit have had an increase every year since this Government came in and that those on the standard rate of pension have had one every two years? This means that persons on supplementary benefit will have had an increase of 70 per cent. in five years.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I can confirm this. I was surprised that the right hon. Gentleman put down the Question, because at one time, when he was Minister, over a two-year period when the level was raised for National Insurance the level for National Assistance was not increased to the same extent, so the National Assistance recipient did very badly indeed.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a statement as to his intentions in respect of increasing pensions earned under the graduated pension provisions of the National Insurance Act, 1959.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what changes he proposes to make in the existing State earnings-related pension scheme ; and on what date they will take effect.

Under the Bill now before Parliament it is proposed to raise the rate of contributions on earnings between £18 and £30 a week from half per cent. to 3¼ per cent. for employer and employee from 3rd November, 1969. When the Government's proposed new scheme starts, the existing graduated scheme will be wound up, but pensions already earned will be preserved and will be included in the two-yearly reviews of benefit rates. The target date for the new scheme is April 1972.

Does that Answer mean that the hon. Gentleman does not propose to do anything to meet the representations made by those responsible for pension funds on the subject of the retrospective change of the option under the 1959 Act?

There have been representations taking a variety of different points of view concerning this matter. It would be absolutely impossible to satisfy all those who make representations which are directly contrary to each other.

If the graduated pension scheme is to be changed, would it not be better to put it on the basis of a higher rate of interest rather than to relate it to the cost of living?

I do not think that would be a satisfactory answer.

Why do the Government consider the provision of a taxpayers' subsidy for the graduated pension scheme is of higher priority than the provision of pensions for the over-80s or the civilian disabled?

There is a priority to give some justice to those who, under the right hon. Gentleman's scheme, have not had any opportunity of seeing their pensions rise but of seeing them shrivel. This is a priority, and this is why the Government announced their decision.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a statement upon the progress of his discussions with representatives of the Life Offices Association in regard to contracting out of the proposed new State superannuation scheme.

As I said in reply to a Question from my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Gorton (Mr. Marks) on 10th June, we have now issued a second consultative document on the contracting-out arrange-merits. The Life Offices Association is one of the organisations to which copies of both consultative documents have been sent, and we await their comments.—[Vol. 784, c. 249–50.]

Would it not be better to call off this discussion and to admit that abatement is all very well in theory but in practice it will give rise to insoluble problems?

I totally disagree with the hon. Gentleman. On the contrary, it is absolutely vital to the future of all pension schemes, whether private or public, that we should have an early announcement, if possible, of the agreement on contracting-out arrangements.

Is it not a fact that, though the right hon. Gentleman answered the Question in terms of contracting-out, he has not offered contracting-out to those with whom he is negotiating and is offering no more than a very modified form of abatement?

There was never any question of contracting-out of the whole scheme. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, under his scheme there was the flat rate, from which there was no contracting-out, and a small element on top from which there was. We are making a comparable arrangement, but with a wholly earnings-related contribution.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services, having regard to increased living costs arising from larger National Insurance contributions, whether he will advance the proposed maximum earnings rule of £7 10s. weekly per adult male to £10, and proportionately for women, in order to promote productivity and help the elderly.

No, Sir. The decisive factor here is what level of earnings is wholly compatible with retirement. We consider £7 10s. is the right point at which the earnings rule should start to operate.

I suggest that that is the wrong figure. Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, having regard to the remorseless and unremitting increase in the cost of living and the approximate increase at the same rate in the wages of the community, it would not be unreasonable, when pensions go up, to set the earnings rule figure at £10, not £7 10s.? Will he recognise this matter, in the interests of productivity, in attracting back to sedentary jobs more elderly people?

I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman. The figure is being increased in the Bill at present before the House. It means that an employed married pensioner and his wife would be able to receive as much as £15 12s. before the rule takes effect. When I hear the hon. Gentleman making a great deal of fuss, he might be interested to know that this provision affects only 16,000 pensioners in the country.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a statement on the financial settlement agreed upon relating to additional payments for nurses consequent on the introduction of the pay-as-you-eat scheme ; and what representations he has received against the agreement.

The Nurses and Midwives Whitley Council have agreed on the introduction of a special meal allowance of £48 a year for younger students and pupils, nursing auxiliaries and nursing assistants who are paying for their meals as taken. I have received no representations against the agreement.

Is my right hon. Friend saying that he has had no protests by the nurses on the ground that the allowance is taxable? Can he say what will be the net figure after the young nurse has paid tax, because it will be a minimal sum not adequate to meet her needs?

I can only repeat what I have said. I thought that this was a satisfactory agreement. As for the matter of taxation, that question should be put to my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Although the right hon. Gentleman has had no individual representations, does he not regard representations made in Parliament as proper representations, or does he ignore Parliament? Members of Parliament have made many representations. What action does the Secretary of State intend to take to make the scheme more realistic and human to meet the needs of the nurses?

I always appreciate the vigour of the hon. Lady's representations or protests. What I said was that I had not had any representations from the nurses. I say in all seriousness that what the Whitley Council has achieved has satisfied the main grievance of student nurses. I am sure that the hon. Lady and I are agreed about that.

Would the Secretary of State bear in mind that the Chancellor of the Exchequer has always specifically excluded from tax a luncheon voucher for a maximum of 3s. per diem for any person employed who is not a nurse? As this amounts to approximately 3s. per diem or £48 per annum, could not a similar tax-free provision be applied to student nurses?

That again, I suggest, is a question which should be put to my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services whether he has yet received the report of his Ad- visory Committee on transplant surgery; and if he will publish their main conclusions.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services whether he will now make a further statement upon human organ transplants.

I cannot at present add to what my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State said in the debate on 20th June, but I hope to make a statement shortly.

As everyone agrees that there must be completely adequate safeguards for prospective donors, does not the right hon. Gentleman think that legislation is now urgent? Is he aware that recent cases have done nothing to alleviate public anxiety, and that it is important for the medical procession that the public should be wholeheartedly behind it in this import new development?

I agree that any legislation should have the full support of the consensus of public opinion. But we had better await the report of the Advisory Committee.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that in two consecutive Parliamentary Sessions the Government have rejected my Private Member's Measure, Renal Transplatation, on grounds that they wished to legislate comprehensively for all human organs and would not proceed organ by organ? Is that still the position and policy of Her Majesty's Government, and can we have an undertaking that this important legislation will be included in the new Session—if there is one—next October?

I do not think that the hon. Gentleman could have listened very carefully to my Answer to the previous Question. I said that whether we should have legislation or not would depend on the report of the Advisory Committee. I advise the hon. Gentleman to wait for that report. The answer to the first part of the question is "yes".

Would my right hon. Friend agree that the demands made by transplant surgery on hospital services, particularly on blood banks, is reducing the standards of service available for day-to-day treatment of routine conditions, and will he look into it?

This is a different question. I will certainly look into it, and I am prepared to answer a Question on that subject if my hon. Friend will put one down.

As well as dealing with this highly technical and important question, will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that the report will concern itself primarily with the social and eithical problems involved?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services whether he will take steps to authorise the repayment of medical practice compensation to those doctors in the National Health Service who require the money for the improvement of their surgery premises, or to repay bank loans incurred for that purpose.

No, Sir. Other means are available for helping doctors to finance improvements to their premises.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that large numbers of doctors in the National Health Service have to pay very high rates of interest to banks to enable them to improve their surgeries while the Government sit on the compensation owed to them and give them only 2¾ per cent.? Is he also aware that the banks are trying, because of Government policy, to persuade doctors to repay loans? Would it not be simpler for the Government to give to the doctors the money that is owed to them?

It is more sensible to keep the problem of compensation separate from the problem of assisting doctors to build their own premises. There are a large number of young doctors who like to build their own premises and who do not have compensation. The system is working satisfactorily.

Could the right hon. Gentleman say whether doctors who are borrowing from banks to improve their premises will be allowed to continue deducting their interest tax-free because the expenditure is for this purpose?

That is a different question which should be put down separately.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what was the total amount spent by the National Health Service in purchasing Ampicillin for the year ended 31st December, 1968 and what percentage of the total market of broad spectrum antibiotics this represents.

It is not Government policy to disclose information of this kind relating to the product of an individual manufacturer.

Is my hon. Friend aware that nearly 50 per cent. of this market is held by one firm, and as it has had an increase of £5 million in its profits and the profit on its equity capital has risen from 31 per cent. to 36 per cent., will he now consider issuing a compulsory licence under Section 41 of the Patents Act?

I should not like to comment too freely at the moment on the financial structure of this company. But perhaps my hon. Friend should know that, since its introduction in 1961, there have been nine reductions in the price of this particular drug, two of those reductions being in 1968. We spend about £15 million a year on broad spectrum antibiotics. Doctors have been alerted to the high cost of this important drug so they may judge in a particular case whether the advantages of Ampicillin are so great that it should be prescribed in preference to a cheaper drug.

Does the Minister agree that this drug makes an important contribution to the export record of the pharmaceutical industry?

Yes, as do many others. Much is due to the use and practice of the drug in the National Health Service.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will take steps to exempt all young persons receiving full-time education up to and including the age of 19 years from payment of prescription charges.

No, Sir. Any who would suffer hardship who are 16 or over can apply for exemption. Those aged 15 are dependants and any claim for them should be made by the head of the family.

Is there not a strong case for uniformity of treatment here, in that the parents of the children concerned get family allowances already? As the State recognises a duty to young people nowadays in this age group, should not we extend it in the way the Question suggests?

I am certainly very ready to consider the point my hon. Friend puts, but it is unlikely that we shall make a change in the exemption method.