asked the Postmaster-General if he is aware of the widespread evasion of the payment of car radio licence fees; and what steps he intends to take to reduce such evasion.

asked the Postmaster-General what consideration is being given by his Department to requiring motorists with car radios to display on their cars a disc indicating that an up-to-date radio licence has been obtained, with a view to enabling the British Broadcasting Corporation to realise its full licence income; and if he will make a statement.

I am aware of the widespread evasion, and I am considering a number of suggestions for dealing with the problem.

Is it the case that the licence fee is being evaded and in respect of no few than 1,200,000 out of about 2 million car radios in service, and that the B.B.C. is losing £1 million a year as a consequence? What steps has my right hon. Friend in mind for immediate remedial action to solve the problem?

I cannot confirm the figures my hon. Friend quoted. My estimate shows that there are about 3 million sets in use and that there are about 2 million evaders. The problem is related to the anomaly that the licence fee does not have to be paid for a battery-operated set in a car whereas it must be paid for a radio installed in a car. I am examining the position.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the B.B.C. could be spared at least some of its present worries over retrenchment if it were enabled to realise its full income, and that it is a matter of urgency, in the interests of the millions of people who pay their licence fees, that we should seriously consider ways of dealing with the problem?

Yes, Sir. It is unfair to the great majority who pay their fees that a minority still get away with it. I am considering ways in which we can deal with this. There is a suggestion that the B.B.C. should receive the full hypothecated income. I think that there are grave objections to this proposal, but I am examining it.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that the House spent much time debating the Wireless Telegraphy Act, much of which was aimed at reducing licence evasion? Will he give us a situation report on the extent to which the evasion position has improved since the passing of the Act?

We have had a substantial success as regards T.V. sets. The number of fees paid has increased, and the number of evaders has been substantially reduced. I think we can say that that Act has been a great help to us in that job.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will state the reasons for the delays in the provision of the necessary equipment and manpower to eliminate the avoidance of payment of radio and television licence fees.

The new detector cars were slightly held up because of last minute technical problems and some delays in delivery of parts from sub-contractors. There have been problems also in recruiting staff.

Does my right hon. Friend think that it would be a worthwhile investment to improve wages and conditions, for instance, to attract additional staff, since the B.B.C. estimates that it is losing £7½ million a year as a result of this kind of evasion? Might not it be made clear to magistrates that the maximum fine allowed by the House is £50 for the first offence, while the average paid is £5, which is a gross misuse of their powers?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the last part of his supplementary question. As regards the first, I am considering ways in which the recruitment of staff can be increased, but I am now in a position to tell the House that I have decided to buy an additional 18 detector vans next year, which will help to improve the position.

Will the right hon. Gentleman relate that additional provision of equipment and its capital cost to the huge loss of revenue in licence evasion which in an aggregation of television and radio licences now apparently runs to between £11 million and £12 million per annum?

Yes, Sir. It is something that I am examining, because I am concerned to eliminate evasion as far as can be achieved. I am sure that the steps we propose to take will move us a great deal in that direction.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that at the time we were considering the Wireless Telegraphy Act I did a tour of about five post offices, and that it was my impression that the collection of licence fees was very much a non-priority job in a post office? It came well down the list of priorities. Does not he consider that this question should be examined to see whether it would not be better to have a staff confined to this one task?

I am considering this suggestion among the others that have been made to me, but I can assure the House that there is no question of the collection of this fee being given low priority in the work we do.

asked the Postmaster-General what is the current estimated number of television and radio licence evaders.

Short asked the Postmaster-General how many persons he estimates are now evading payment of the licence fee for television and radio receivers.

asked the Postmaster-General what is his latest estimate of the number of persons evading payment of radio and television licences.

I estimate that there are 1·2 million television licence evaders. There are no reliable estimates of the number of sound licence evaders.

Is not this an alarming total of mean and selfish people in this country? Earlier the right hon. Gentleman said that he was proposing to bring 18 more detector cars into use. What will then be the total number of such cars in operation? Many of us feel that this is still the most effective form of persuasion in the matter.

The number of evaders has been substantially reduced. Without the provisions of the Wireless Telegraphy Act, the loss could have been as much as £18 million, but it has been kept down to £7½ million following the Act. The number of detector vans will be increased by 18 to 38.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that, if these people accepted their responsibilities there would be no talk about disbanding B.B.C. orchestras and depriving musicians of their livelihood? Will he consider making it obligatory for all people buying new television sets to produce a valid licence at the time of purchase and also request dealers to notify the Post Office of the people to whom sets have been sold, so that there would be immediately on record the names and addresses of those who have bought sets?

I do not believe that the fact that there is licence evasion obviates the need for the B.B.C. to have some economy in the way it does its job. I believe also that the Act gives us sufficient powers. We obtain the names and addresses of all those buying new sets, and this enables us to root out a lot of evasion.

Parliament in its wisdom has voted to the B.B.C. the revenue from the licences on the assumption that everyone pays. If there is a shortfall of £7½ million, is it not grossly unfair that the B.B.C. should lose this money? Should not the full amount be handed over by the Government to the B.B.C. with the Treasury being made responsible, as is the case with other taxes, for dealing with evasion?

I do not agree with that assumption. I do not think that it is guaranteed to the B.B.C. that it shall have the full income. But it is one of the proposals I am considering.

asked the Postmaster-General when the transmission of Radio One will be extended to cover the Furness area.

The extension of its services is primarily a matter for the B.B.C. but I understand that it has no immediate plans for extending the coverage of Radio One in the Furness area.

Will my hon. Friend tell the B.B.C. to take the necessary steps to improve the reception of Radio One in the Furness area?

The B.B.C. informs me that improvements are under consideration and that it has the needs of the area in mind.

Instead of extending Radio One, will the hon. Gentleman consider abolishing it, since it is no part of the public service to provide pop music, a function better undertaken by commercial concerns?

The hon. and learned Gentleman is anticipating a later Question.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will extend to the deaf the television licence fee concession which is now granted to the blind.

No, Sir.

While I am grateful for that helpful and comprehensive reply, is my right hon. Friend aware that although the blind and the deaf suffer equally from deprivation of sound or vision, he helps the blind but discriminates against the deaf?

I am aware that both groups in the community suffer from a grave disability, but I think that the blind concession, which has been long standing, should not be withdrawn. I do not believe that concessions in kind of this sort should be extended to other sections of the community.

asked the Postmaster-General what steps he proposes to take to enable the British Broadcasting Corporation to combine solvency with high standards of public service broadcasting.

asked the Postmaster-General what proposals he has now received from the British Broadcasting Corporation about the future of the British Broadcasting Corporation's radio services; and whether he will make a statement.

asked the Postmaster-General what discussions he has had with the British Broadcasting Corporation concerning the future financing of the corporation.

asked the Postmaster-General what further consideration he has been giving to methods of financing the British Broadcasting Corporation.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he has now received the British Broadcasting Corporation's proposals on the reorganisation of sound broadcasting.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he has now received from the British Broadcasting Corporation its proposals for the reorganisation of sound broadcasting; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Postmaster-General what discussions he has now held with the British Broadcasting Corporation about the future of sound broadcasting.

asked the Postmaster-General if he has now completed his consideration as to the provision of a 24-hour radio service; and if he will make a statement.

The B.B.C. will publish its proposals for the future of radio services next week. I prefer to await the reactions of the public before making any statement.

Is my right bon Friend aware that the finances of the B.B.C. are grossly inadequate? Would he consider an annual review, which would ensure that inflation would be met automatically?

This is a helpful suggestion. I cannot give a commitment upon it, but I will consider it very seriously in the reviews now being conducted.

Before the statement next week, would the Postmaster-General be prepared to comment on the rumours circulating that the B.B.C., to maintain its music programme and regional orchestras, is prepared, in order to deal with the financing of local radio, to take local commercial advertisements?

I am not prepared to anticipate a statement. I am not proposing to make a statement next week. What I said was that I would make a statement after the B.B.C. had announced its proposals so that I could judge public reaction to them. I would want to give a week or so to get that reaction.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the great public dissatisfaction surrounding the secrecy of these talks, which have led to considerable rumour and counter-rumour? Is he aware of the great importance of maintaining B.B.C. standards so that the music programme and others are not sacrificed to enable the B.B.C. to engage in local radio?

I am aware that this subject has attracted a great deal of public interest. The House will be aware that the B.B.C. has a number of advisory councils which it has to consult. It would be wrong for it to have announced, its proposals to the public before these councils were consulted. I am very anxious that the B.B.C. standards, which are second to none in the world, shall be maintained.

Would my right hon. Friend accept that the continuing and widespread concern for the future of B.B.C. Radio Three cannot be over-emphasised, and the proposal which has been widely forecast in the Press, to stop transmitting this service on the medium wave and to confine it solely to v.h.f. would be a thoroughly retrograde step, tantamount to curtailing the service, and a step which would be quite unacceptable to music lovers inside and outside this House? Will he urge the B.B.C. not to take this step?

I am aware of the concern about some of these proposals. I would ask my hon. Friend and the House to await the B.B.C. statement. I am sure that the B.B.C. would not want its music programme to be less effective than it is today.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Director General, Mr. Charles Curran, is to appear on the Third Programme to answer questions on 15th July? Is he aware that this will hardly satisfy a number of people who are discontented about the manner in which the advisory councils were brought before the corporation, on the strictest confidentiality, in this matter? Does he not realise that a meeting of this kind is highly important in the public interest, and that information about the changes that are discussed should be made available?

The information is being made available. The B.B.C. is consulting its advisory councils and all others concerned. It proposes to make a statement about its proposals next week. There would have been many complaints if the B.B.C. had rushed its proposals before the public before such consultations.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that if the B.B.C. dropped the public service concept which has guided it for so long there would, unfortunately, be no real case against commercial radio? Would he not agree that if the B.B.C. is over-stretched in relation to its present resources, the better course would be for it to abolish Radio One and for this House to re-legalise chains of islands with pirate pop outside our coasts?

I am sure that the B.B.C. is very well aware of its public service responsibility. A week or so ago I had the opportunity to meet the members of the full board, and I was very impressed with their approach to their responsibilities. I am not attracted by the later extravagant idea put forward in the supplementary question.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, as has been mentioned frequently in the House, the most dreaded companion of the old, the sick and the feeble in the early hours of the morning is loneliness, and will this view be conveyed to the B.B.C. before it makes an announcement next week?

I am sure that the B.B.C. is taking into account the need to satisfy the interests of all sections of the community.

Will the Postmaster-General undertake to make his statement to the House before he makes a statement to the country on television or by other means? Has he brought to the attention of the B.B.C. Motion 337, which has been signed by more than a hundred Members of Parliament on both sides of the House, and which expresses the concern of the House at any loss in quality or quantity of the music programme?

It would be better if the House were to await the statement of the B.B.C.'s proposals. In reply to the second part of that question, I am aware of the great amount of interest which has been expressed in the retention of the music programme.

Is not this subject of too great public significance to be dealt with either privately by the B.B.C. or sporadically in the House by means of the exchange of questions and answers? Will the Postmaster-General approach his right hon. Friend to arrange a full debate on the whole subject to ventilate public anxieties?

I welcome that suggestion. There will be an opportunity for debate in the House when the B.B.C. agreement comes up for discussion, and I have no doubt that an early debate can be arranged. I will consult my right hon. Friend about that.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that the cost of concessionary licences should be borne by the welfare authorities and not by the B.B.C.? Is he also aware that many hon. Members on both sides of the House wish such facilities to be extended to the deaf and the severely disabled?

This is a very complex question. Concessionary rebates of this character can be subject to evasion. Although such concessions superficially appear to be attractive, I must warn the House that there are some grave objections to them, and I do not think that we should rush down this road without due consideration.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will introduce legislation to enable him to issue directions to the broadcasting authorities about the types of programme to be shown on days when local government elections are held.

No, Sir. The content of programmes is the responsibility of the B.B.C. and of the I.T.A.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that sporting associations take steps to see that television bans are imposed because attendances at various functions are falling? Democracy is threatened because the percentage of votes at local elections is dropping. Should not this be examined?

I am aware from my constituency of the effect this can have, but I do not think that my hon. Friend's suggestion is the way we should deal with this.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider inviting the B.B.C. to devote the evening to party political broadcasts, which would make sure that everyone would go to the poll?

That is a very amusing suggestion. I am sure that if the hon. Member for Shrewsbury (Sir J. Langford-Holt) were appearing the audience would be almost nil. I think that the B.B.C. will take note of these suggestions.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will extend the provisions of the Old Persons' Home Broadcast Receiving Licence Regulation to cover Cheshire Homes.

No, Sir.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that nearly all the residents of the Cheshire Homes, as well as others in old people's homes, are in very bad health and nearly all are badly incapacitated? Will he reconsider this totally inhuman and illogical decision?

I am aware of the grave position of this particular group and I wish that we could do something to help them. But, as I said in reply to another Question, concessions of this sort are complex matters and we should not accept them at face value.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will now make a statement on the review of the local radio experiment.

asked the Postmaster-General what proposals he now has for the future of local radio as a result of his review of the existing experiment.

I will make a statement when this review has been completed.

Could the Postmaster-General clear up one point? Will this statement be made simultaneously with the B.B.C. statement next week, as it obviously will lead to a chaotic situation if the two do not match in the matter of time? Could we also be assured that there will be no bogus financial arrangements within the experiment?

I would ask the House to await the statement. I cannot give an assurance that the local radio statement will be made before the main review.

Will my right hon. Friend in making his statement not only consider the question of a full explanation of the finances involved but make some comment about the wavelengths to be used? Could he give some assurance that the question of regional broadcasting will be reviewed?

Yes, I can give that assurance. All those points will be dealt with since they are all extremely important.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the question of the B.B.C. looking into its own affairs and the question of the wider future of radio are two separate issues? Would it not be better if he were to make his own statement after the B.B.C. statement has been made?

I cannot give an assurance to the House on the timing, but we must take into account both problems before we make any final decision.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he will include in this year's Christmas issue a 4d. stamp to encourage the sending of Christmas cards.

Yes, Sir. I have decided to alter the make-up of the Christmas, 1969, issue to include a 4d. stamp. The issue will still consist of three stamps, but the values will be 4d., 5d. and Is. 6d. The date of the issue will be Wednesday, 26th November.

Will the right hon. Gentleman accept the fact that this decision will be welcomed, especially by the elderly people who set such store on sending Christmas cards?

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for that remark. We made this decision because we are anxious to ensure that everyone wishing to send Christmas cards by second-class post will be able to use Christmas commemorative stamps, and we are satisfied that there will be no operational objection to doing this.

Will my right hon. Friend consider a 3d. postage for Christmas cards, on the lines I suggested last year'? As I predicted, the number of cards sent fell last year due to the increased postal charges.

The number of cards did fall, as I informed the House, but a 3d. rate would be uneconomic and I could not entertain it.

asked the Postmaster-General what percentage of letters destined for areas in which postal codes are in operation bear such code markings.

It varies from about 13 per cent. in areas recently coded to around 45 per cent. in areas where postcodes were introduced in the last two years.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that fewer and fewer people are using these codes, first, apparently, because they feel that they do nothing to speed up the delivery of letters, and second, because of the chaos and confusion created in people's minds by this crazy mixture of letters and digits which the Post Office has inflicted upon us? Why is Britain, alone of all major countries, unable to produce an all-digit system which would work in a more straightforward and simple manner?

I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman's claim that the number of people using the codes is falling. On the contrary, the use of the codes is going up and has reached a very high proportion in some areas. This is really the familiarisation period before postcodes are brought fully into use. We adopted an alphanumerical system because we considered that this was the best way to make the use of the codes more attractive to the users, and operationally it helps to make them more effective.

If my right hon. Friend forecasts that the whole country will have these postal codes, and if he thinks in terms of directories of the codes in different parts of the country, what does the Post Office expect the total volume of space to be that will be required by the average individual if he is to have all the books on postcodes for the country? Where will he store them?

I do not believe that that will be much of a problem. Furthermore, as most postcodes will be advertised on the addresses of business houses and private correspondents will become fully aware of the postcodes of their addresses, the need for directories will not be as great as suggested.

asked the Postmaster-General what steps he is taking to improve postal deliveries in Harpenden.

I am sorry that a shortage of postmen has caused delay to the first delivery and the cancellation of some second deliveries on occasions. We are doing our best to get more staff. With competition from other employers in the area this is difficult, and I cannot promise any immediate improvement.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that deliveries at 11 a.m. or noon are quite unsatisfactory for a first delivery? What steps is he taking to obtain more staff from outside? For example, has he approached the local council to allocate council houses for incoming postal staff?

We are doing all we can to overcome the shortage. There is an establishment at Harpenden of 36 postmen and 3 part-timers. There are 14 vacancies. We are taking postmen from other areas to assist in Harpenden.

asked the Postmaster-General (1) whether he is aware that 28 pensioners, aged 65 to 83 years, many infirm and without supplementary pensions, are paying up to 5s. weekly, travelling by bus to Worcester and Pershore from their homes, due to the closure many months ago of the Stoulton Sub-Post Office; whether he will furnish mobile facilities to pay weekly at the pensioners' homes; and whether he will make a statement;

A sub-post office will again be provided at Stoulton when a suitable sub-postmaster can be found. Meanwhile, stamps and postal orders may be bought from the delivery postman and pensions may be collected by relatives or friends.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is not easy in a widespread rural area to cause other people to collect pensions? As I have put my finger here on the fundamental case on behalf of a number of old-age pensioners, will he not take the initiative under one of two heads—either pay the pensions from mobile post office vans, such vans being available in the area, or cause local head postmasters to remit the pensions by post against appropriate vouchers?

I am aware of the special problems in rural areas, and I will seriously consider the helpful suggestions which the hon. Gentleman has made.

While it is not for the Opposition to advocate increased public expenditure, would not my right hon. Friend agree that it would be helpful to elderly people in many other areas if mobile facilities could be made available?

Mobile facilities, unless they are temporary, can be extremely expensive. I would not want to give the impression that we can instal mobile post offices on a large scale. I think that the best way to provide the best service is by establishing suitable sub-offices where possible.

asked the Postmaster-General what plans he has to abolish the Winchester postmark; and whether he will make a statement.

None, Sir; but when in a year or two letters posted in Winchester are dealt with at our mechanised Southampton office the majority of them will bear a Southampton postmark.

So that answer is not "none"? It is intended to abolish the Winchester postmark?

Yes, but there will be no depreciation in the standards of service as a result of the changes we have in mind.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will take steps to increase the computerisation of Post Office sorting by providing standard size envelopes already franked for 5d. and 4d. mail at the stamp cost of 5d. and 4d., respectively; and if he will estimate the annual demand for such envelopes and the cost to the Post Office of their introduction, allowing for the fall-off in the use of conventional stamps.

The majority of envelopes posted already conform to "Post Office Preferred" standards.

Does my right hon. Friend not feel that this cost-benefit equation is a bit over-simplified? Has he made allowance for the increased volume of letters, letters which are not now sent because a stamp is not available? Has he also allowed for the economies which would be achieved by a speeding-up of computerisation?

I agree that demand would be very large if the envelopes were provided free, but I do not think that the Post Office should go into such an uneconomic activity. I am now examining ways in which the sale of stamps can be improved. This is the way to deal with the question.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will make a statement on the methods now used to inform winners at all levels of Premium Bond wins and to ensure prizes are claimed; what protection is given to £25,000 winners to protect them from undesirable publicity; and if he will take steps to improve the publicity for big prize-winners without identifying individuals, on a similar basis to that used by the pools for their X non-publicity winners.

We write to all winners. In addition to Press publicity, we exhibit in all the larger post offices the winning numbers and a list of prizes unclaimed for 18 months or longer.

Does my hon. Friend not agree that some further follow-up is required to find winners'? Could he tell the House how many winners have not been found and what is the sum of money involved? Does he not feel that some information about the sex, characteristics, and occupation of the winner might help to provide useful publicity and increase the volume of bonds bought?

As to the first part of that question, out of a total of 5,285,858 prizes only 5,157, amounting to £148,075, remain unclaimed, but the work of tracing these goes on. As to partly identifying the winner by sex or trade, in my view this would increase the risk of the winner being fully identified, particularly in thinly-populated counties.

Can the hon. Gentleman say how long these unclaimed prizes are retained to the credit of the winners—indefinitely?

The amount of money I have given to the House as being unclaimed is there and can still be claimed if people produce evidence.

asked the Postmaster-General if he is aware that the inclusion of a £5 note in weekly pension payments is inconvenient to many retirement pensioners; and if he will arrange that adequate supplies of £1 notes are available at post offices for the payment of such pensions.

Post offices normally have adequate supplies of £1 notes which are available on request to pensioners who prefer them to £5 notes.

Will my hon. Friend make sure that postmasters are told about this answer? Is he aware that old-age pensioners are subject to serious inconvenience by being given a £5 note when they are collecting their weekly pension? They find it difficult to change the £5 note in the small shops in which they habitually make their small purchases.

I have every sympathy with what my hon. Friend says. It is very rarely that this happens. This trouble should not arise, but if my hon. Friend will tell me of any case where this has happened, I will investigate it.

asked the Postmaster-General how many items a year cannot be delivered by the Post Office as a result of bad packing and addressing.

We do not keep records but we estimate 0·025 per cent. through poor packing and 0·005 per cent. badly addressed. The number is quite small because sorters go to great trouble to repack parcels and to find the right address for inadequately addressed items.

Is it not a sad fact that the Post Office will get the blame for the mail that is not delivered? Will the Postmaster-General continue his efforts to persuade people that if they do not address their mail properly they have "had" it and it is no use their abusing the Post Office?

I should not like to suggest that they had "had" it. We want to reduce the amount of mail which is badly addressed, and we do our best to achieve this by advertising the correct address which should be used.

To minimise confusion in addressing mail, will the Postmaster-General refrain from introducing 6-cypher code markings for towns whose names are spelt with three, four, five or six letters?

No, I think that the postcodes are being generally accepted, that they are convenient and that one day they will be operationally helpful to us.

asked the Postmaster-General what percentage of letters get lost in the post.

0·0008 per cent.

I thank the Minister for his most interesting answer. Would not he agree that, if industry and commerce, which spend so much time abusing the Post Office, could match this degree of efficiency, that would really be something to boast about?

I agree entirely. The record of the Post Office is extremely good. There are isolated examples of mail going astray, but when only 94,407 items out of 11,500 million are reported lost in a year, I think the Post Office can claim some success.

Does not that figure relate only to letters reported lost? How does the Postmaster-General know how many are actually lost?

We are satisfied that this is a reliable account of the position.

asked the Postmaster-General what is the limit of loss which he proposes to allow the Giro to incur.

The loss on Giro now being incurred was anticipated and expected in the launching of this new service.

Will the Postmaster-General say what it is? Is he aware that he is fooling about with public money? Will he say how much he has wasted and stop the Giro system when it gets too much into the red?

The House knows that the hon. Gentleman is opposed to the Giro. He knows the loss that has been incurred. It is £1·7 million in the last financial year, and a loss of £4 million is expected for the current financial year. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh".] These amounts were anticipated, and are to be anticipated in the launching of a completely new cash transfer system. Certainly other private organisations like Barclaycard would expect to incur such substantial deficits in the first years when such a system is being produced.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that most people believe this to be a basically good scheme, but would he not agree that there is a need to look into the matter of allowing a certain amount of credit for overdraft at the end of each month, since this is a genuine problem which prevents many people from using Giro at present?

No, Sir. It is a cash transfer system, and it would be wrong for Giro to enter into overdraft facilities. It would make it an extremely complex system and would be subject to fraud.

When will the service make a profit?

We are expecting to reach the break-even point in 1972.

asked the Postmaster-General if he will simplify the mode of opening a Giro account so that this can be swiftly and easily done across any post office counter.

It is very simple to open a Giro account already, but under new arrangements which I am introducing from 7th July a person will be able to send his initial deposit with his application form by post to the Giro centre.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, although I welcome the system, having filled up my original form, I have now received altogether eight pieces of paper, a handbook containing 103 paragraphs of explanations, including one about what will happen if I drop dead, and a demand for 8s. 6d. for an even further batch of stationery?

I am glad my hon. Friend has discovered that the Giro centre sends out full information about Giro accounts. It is important that those who subscribe to it should fully understand the contractual provisions, but we are simplifying the application form to maximise the number of applications. I believe that the new system being introduced will have that effect.

asked the Postmaster-General what percentage of letters bearing a 4d. stamp is now being delivered three or more days after posting.

About 9 per cent.

Are there any significant regional variations in those figures?

No, Sir. There are, of course, reasons relating to distance and the fact that some addressees are remote, which means that some second-class mail takes longer, but as between main towns there is no particular variation.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that our postal service is becoming such that it is no longer a question of when a letter gets there but a question of whether it gets there?

I completely reject that foolish suggestion. All our statistics show that our operational achievement has improved considerably, and we are providing the most reliable postal service in the world.

asked the Postmaster-General when the extensions to the Winchester Telephone Exchange will be completed.

Provided the contractor maintains expected progress, by the end of 1969. I very much regret the inconvenience this is causing to the people who are waiting for telephones.

In February, the Postmaster-General said that the national figure was 86 per cent. of all applicants connected on demand. whereas some of my constituents still have to wait for a year. Can the hon. Gentleman say what steps have been taken since February to expedite matters?

We put in an extra 400 lines in April, and will be putting in more, but the waiting list of subscribers for these extensions will, it is estimated, have risen to 600 by the time the extensions are completed. They should all be connected by the early 1970s. That is the progress so far.

asked the Postmaster-General what is the capacity currently spare on the Cheltenham Telephone Exchange; in which areas of Cheltenham and Charlton Kings are site conditions delaying the supply of telephone service to prospective subscribers; how many prospective subscribers are currently awaiting service; what is the longest waiting period; and when he expects to make available to all prospective subscribers currently on the Cheltenham waiting list the service enjoyed by others in the district.

There is spare capacity for 2,350 subscribers. Site conditions are causing delay at Hester's Way, Pittville Mount and Harp Hill. Twenty-one people are on the waiting list, and will have service this year. The longest waiting period is 17 months.

Is the Minister aware that the impression left by the debate last December was that all would be clear by April when the exchange facilities were available, but there are still a number of my constituents who are deprived, some being asked to share lines after having had a line of their own for many years?

I am aware of that in view of the interest shown by the hon. Gentleman in an Adjournment debate and in previous Questions which he has asked. The recent extension of the exchange, together with others which are already planned, should provide adequate capacity to meet future growth, and we do not expect that there will be any waiting list.

asked the Postmaster-General what is the latest position in his discussions with the telecommunications industry on allowing companies to sell telephone apparatus direct to the public.

Discussions are still in progress.

Why is the Postmaster-General taking so long to conclude these discussions? Why should not the British public be allowed to buy their telephones direct from suppliers, an arrangement which would save the Post Office £300 million in the next five years? Why is the Postmaster-General dragging his feet? I hope it is not because of pressures being put on him by certain segments of the unions?

This is a very complex subject. I do not accept that the hon. Gentleman's suggestion would save the Post Office £300 million. That is a ridiculous figure. The equipment that is chosen to be attached to the system must be compatible with the system, and the Post Office must ensure that the system works effectively.

Is my hon. Friend aware that, while many people would like a cheap telephone, what really matters is a reliable instrument in the home and the necessity to maintain reasonable standards?

That is entirely correct, and this is a consideration which we must bear in mind.