asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a statement about the staffing position at Broadmoor Special Hospital.

As the answer includes number of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Does my right hon Friend recall that in evidence given to the Parliamentary Estimates Committee that in-vestigated the special hospitals, we were told that, concerning medical staff, Broadmoor is worse off that Grendon, although it has more difficult patients to deal with, and, concerning nursing stuff, there was a shortfall of about 50 nurses? Can my right hon. Friend say whether the figures that he is to circulate will show an improvement on that position?

Yes, I think that I can.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what improvements he intends to introduce in the operation of the Abortion Act in order to ensure that all women in every regional hospital board area have equality of treatment.

Officers of my Department are making a series of exploratory visits to selected areas in the country to study the effects of the Act upon the hospital service. In the light of their findings I shall consider what further action is needed.

As my right hon. Friend is on record as saying that he regrets the difference between the regions and also the attempts at self-help which organisations like the Birmingham Pregnancy Advisory Service have set up, can he tell the House what he intends to do to ensure that the Act is properly operated?

If my hon. Friend is thinking about conditions in the West Midlands, I shall be making a decision about the possibility of opening a nursing home in the immediate future.

Is my right hon. Friend aware of certain allegations that in some parts of the country women are being denied abortions unless they simultaneously agree to be sterilised? Does he agree that, while this operation might become eminently desirable in certain circumstances, it is improper if pressure of this kind is put on women?

I have not heard of the allegation which my hon. Friend mentions. If he will put it to me in writing, I will certainly investigate it.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the object of the Health Service is to save life, not to end it?

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what recent representations he has received concerning the position of those widows under 50 years of age who receive no pension; and what steps he intends to take to alleviate their circumstances.

My right hon. Friend and I have had a number of individual representations on this subject, both directly and through hon. Members. My hon. Friend knows that the Government share his concern about the age 50 condition for widow's pension and that the proposals for the new scheme include provision of a scaled down flat-rate pension for existing widows who were aged between 40 and 50 at widowhood or when their widowed mother's allowance ceased.

Is my hon. Friend aware that that does nothing in the mean- while for those widows who are suffering considerable hardship? Will he further consider the matter with a view to alleviating that position until such time as the benefits accruing from the new scheme come into operation?

There has been an increase in the widow's pension level from 3rd November. As for the date when application of the new scheme can come in, we must await the Bill.

As we welcome the part of the White Paper which is designed to end the rigid age barrier which stops widows getting a pension, may I ask what would be the cost of bringing this part in before 1972?

I should need notice of that question.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a statement on the progress being made in the standardisation of electrical fittings in National Health Service hospitals.

The importance of adopting a standard socket outlet to enable appliances to be readily connected at any point in a hospital where they may be needed has been stressed in the past at meetings with the engineers of hospital authorities.

Can my hon. Friend say what progress has been made in this regard in the last few years, and whether there is any evidence that lives have been lost or put in jeopardy resulting from failure to expedite the process of standardisation in this sphere?

On the second part of the question, I have no direct evidence that this is so, and I have examined at least two cases. We are making progress in standardising electrical equipment. Our aim is to provide a sufficient number of 13-amp sockets for the convenient use of mobile appliances throughout all hospitals either by rewiring or by replacing existing 15-amp points with 13-amp points.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what proposalshe has for disabled vehicles for haemophiliacs.

Haemophiliacs will continue to be given priority for the improved three-wheelers now available, and for those with automatic transmission in due course. The interiors are specially modified when necessary.

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that haemophiliacs are a rather special case, in that internal bleeding and haemorrhage can come from a knock while driving three-wheeled vehicles? Will he look at this again, as the number of haemophiliacs who require vehicles is very small?

I agree that in certain respects haemophiliacs present a special problem, but so do many other groups who claim three-wheeler vehicles or improvements in the present service. We provide extra padding in these vehicles when this is necessary, and I assure the hon. Gentleman that we shall take into account the claims of haemophiliacs, as we shall of the other groups, if the opportunity arises to extend this service.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a further statement on vehicles for disabled drivers.

My predecessor made a statement in reply to a number of Questions on 27th January. Production of 2,000 three-wheelers with improved suspension began in June, and 20 three-wheelers with automatic transmission will begin trials later this year. Full-scale production of the automatic three-wheeler is expected by the end of 1970.—[Vol. 776, c. 929–32.]

But is the hon. Gentleman aware of a recent case in my constituency where a disabled driver who was paralysed from the waist downwards spent 14 hours upside down in a ditch all night because his three-wheeler was blown off the road in a high wind? Does not that show the inherent instability of what one hon. Gentleman opposite has called a sardine tin on wheels? Will the hon.. Gentleman look at this again?

If the hon. Gentleman will send me details of the case, I shall look into it. The accident record of these vehicles is exceptionally good, and no difficulty is found in obtaining insurance at normal rates for the drivers of them.

My hon. Friend knows that there has been much criticism of these vehicles by disabled people, and that that has been substantiated to some extent by the Consumer Association Which? report. Would he consider it proper to give a cash allowance in lieu to those disabled people who would like to purchase four-wheeled vehicles?

That is a much wider question. I do not at the moment think that I should feel able to do that. We have to consider not only the people who have vehicles and who would like four-wheeled vehicles but all those denied any vehicles because of the criteria that we lay down. Nevertheless, the service is exceptional. We have the finest service in the world, and we are spending twice as much on it as we were five years ago.

I think that it was the Joint Under-Secretary of State who, in a previous incarnation, referred to a sardine tin on wheels. Can the hon. Gentleman say what is being done to make use of the new powers which Parliament has provided, both to improve the vehicles and to extend the categories of disabled people who can be provided with these vehicles?

Improvements are constantly taking place in the vehicles, and, as the hon. Gentleman knows, we are bringing out a new vehicle with automatic transmission. The Which? investigation referred to has spoken very well of it. I think that we can look forward to this providing a very much better service to many people who are somewhat critical of today's three-wheeler vehicles.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if the investigation of improved and more compact hearing aids has been completed; and if he will make a statement.

Development of a new body-worn hearing aid of about the same size as the present ones, but with improved performance and a wider range of facilities, is continuing but not yet completed.

Is my hon. Friend aware that one of the complaints that I have received is that there is a considerable amount of clothing noise with the body-worn hearing aids? Is there no prospect of moving to the head-worn variety which appear to be so much more satisfactory?

Clothing noise is a problem with body-worn aids, although the new body-worn aid that we hope to introduce will be considerably superior, technically, to any ear-level aids available. The question of ear-level aids comes up in a separate Question from my hon. Friend.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what has been the result of experimentally supplying children with head-worn hearing aids; and if he will make a statement.

The experimental issue of ear-level aids is not yet complete, and a year's experience with each aid will be required before the results of the experiments can be fully assessed.

Will the experience from this experiment possibly lead to supplying adults with head-worn aids? Has my hon. Friend any observation to make on that?

I think that the results of this experiment will be of great value in deciding whether we should go ahead with the provision of ear-level aids. The main advantage of these is the cosmetic rather than the technical one, but this is no reason why we should not look at it.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is a great deal of dissatisfaction among the disabled over the existing provision of these hearing aids? Will he look into the whole question of the type and kind which is at the moment supplied by the National Health Service and what can be obtained from the private sector? The ability to switch is not there at the moment.

I think that technically the hearing aids provided today and the ones that we hope to provide next year are vastly superior to the great majority provided privately. The private ones have a cosmetic appeal but not a technical one.

Even though my hon. Friend says that these aids have a cosmetic appeal, would he not agree that the price of these aids is about 12 to 13 times the manufacturing price, and will he therefore consider sending this to the Prices and Incomes Board?

The question of referring this to the board is a different point, but I agree with the implication of my hon. Friend's question.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a statement on the provision under the National Health Service of hidden hearing aids to the deaf.

Ear-level aids are being provided, experimentally, for those school-children over the age of seven for whom they are clinically suitable.

Does not my hon. Friend agree that it is psychologically difficult enough for a school leaver who suffers from deafness to have to adjust to the stresses of a new job without the additional disadvantage of having to proclaim his or her difficulties to the world by wearing a hearing aid which is ugly and visible to everyone? Would not he agree that the provision of a hidden hearing aid would be the most important treatment for the deaf?

I agree that psychological difficulties are faced by young people in the situation outlined by my hon. Friend, but children at school face even greater psychological difficulties and for this reason they deserve priority during the experimental stage. After a period of 12 months, when we can assess the success or otherwise of the experiment, I think that we ought to consider the possibility of an extension to other categories.

asked the Secretary of State for the Social Services whether in his forthcoming legislation he intends to seek powers to alter existing pensions schemes in the public and private sectors.

Powers will be sought, similar to those included by the right hon. Member in the National Insurance Act 1959, to facilitate the consequential modification of occupational pension schemes by those responsible for them.

Following the very respectable precedent which the right hon.Gentleman cited, will information be given at the same time about the extent to which these powers are intended to be used in the public sector for which Ministers are responsible?

The provisions will lay clown how they should be used, mainly to qualify the contracting out and to meet the statutory requirements on preservation of occupational pension schemes.

On previous occasions the right hon. Gentleman has referred to a cut back. Today he talked about modification. In view of the great uncertainty which exists at the moment in public service pension schemes, and, indeed, in private occupational schemes, can the right hon. Gentleman say when these negotiations in the public service are likely to start?

I think that the hon. Gentleman is confusing two different things I was asked whether powers would be taken to enable occupational pension schemes to modify themselves in the light of the new scheme. This has nothing to do with a cut-back at all.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what advice he has received from the National Association of Pension Funds about earnings-related state pensions.

The association has publicly stated the view on earnings-related State pensions which it put to me.

At Question Time three weeks ago the right hon. Gentleman indicated that it was his belief that there was general agreement about the desirability of an earnings-related State pension scheme. Does the Minister agree that the views expressed by the National Association of Pension Funds are somewhat counter to that belief?

I hesitate to correct the hon. Gentleman, but I think I said that the popularity of earnings-related schemes had been clearly demonstrated by the existence of 65,000 of them in the private sector. It is because we are encouraged by that belief that we are starting the State earnings-related scheme to follow the work of the pioneers.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that whatever difficulties have to be ironed out in the scheme, many people at work will be pleased that when they retire they will not have to face the poverty which so many retired people are facing now?

That is something which we should not forget. Nor should we forget that at least 25 per cent. of the working population are not, and cannot be, covered by occupational pension schemes.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what is his estimate of the number of pensioners in 1972 who will be ineligible to participate in the proposed earnings-related state pension scheme.

People who are already retirement pensioners when the earnings-related pension scheme begins will not pay contributions under that scheme.

I should be grateful if the hon. Gentleman would answer the Question and tell me what will be the number of such people in 1972. As both the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State have said continuously that the object of their new scheme is to prevent a divisive effect among pensioners, to prevent pensioners being divided into two nations, in the words of the original White Paper, does not the hon. Gentleman agree that from 1972 onwards there will be an additional division among pensioners which will last until at least the end of the century?

The answer to the first part of that question is that it is estimated that by April, 1972, there will be about 7½ million retirement pensioners. The answer to the second part is that the Government's decision that every two years all pensions, both existing pensions and those under the new scheme, are to be uprated will mean that old pensioners will share in the rising standard of living. If the previous Administration when in power had given that same pledge the plight of pensioners today would be better than it is.

All those 7½ million pensioners will be held down on a flat-rate pension whereas the younger people will be placed on an earnings-related pension? Does not this mean, by definition, that the young will do better than the older people and that there will be a widening gap between the two generations? Surely that is wrong.

It certainly means that those who pay the new rates of contribution to the new scheme will receive the new rates of benefit from it. The noble Lord says that they will be held down. It is not the intention of this Government that existing pensioners should be held down. It is our intention that they should have their levels raised and should share in rising standards of living.

Is my hon. Friend aware that hon. Members opposite would do nothing about changing the present inadequate pension scheme? In the meantime—before 1972—will my hon. Friend do everything in his power to arrange for annual reviews of standard rate pensions, so that they can come within reach of the new scheme, with an adequate pension, by 1972?

In answer to the second part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question, we shall be able to debate this when the Bill is before the House. As for the first part of the question, the decision to have a biennial review is of extreme importance to the pensioners, because at one stage when the previous Government were in power they had to wait for 3½ years before they had an increase to cover the rising cost of living.

Will the hon. Gentleman tell the House why he proposes to bring in a scheme which will give most money to people with the least need?

That is not so. We are proposing to bring in a scheme because the present scheme does not ensure that people can retire with an adequate pension on which they can live.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services, in view of the increasing number of small children brought into hospitals severely injured as the result of assaults by their parents, what measures he will propose to improve this situation.

My right hon. Friends the Home Secretary and Secretary of State for Social Services intend to issue guidance to local health and children's authorities and are considering the form it should take.

Would it not be more helpful if my hon. Friend were to introduce measures to make it obligatory for doctors to report all such cases as this to an appropriate child protection society?

I realise that this battered baby syndrome is notifiable in some countries abroad but I am not convinced that it would help to solve this difficult problem here. What we could do, in conjunction with the societies to which my hon. Friend refers, is to inform those medical practitioners, such as general practitioners and casualty officers, who are most likely to deal with these cases. I pay tribute to the work which the N.S.P.C.C. has done in this field.

How does the Minister propose to deal with the phenomenon that most of the bestial cases occur while the parents are listening to and watching television in the evenings and beating their children up for interfering with their pleasure? How can a doctor deal with a situation of that kind?

The position is not as simple as the hon. Gentleman makes out. These cases usually arise in severely disturbed families. It is nothing to do with television. There is an important preventive aspect of this work; namely, ensuring that these cases are recognised and the unfortunate children—and their brothers and sisters—are not injured again in the future.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will institute an inquiry with appropriate professional representation into the purpose of the large number of tonsillectomy operations performed on children in Great Britain.

I am arranging a meeting to consider this in association with the Medical Research Council.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that reply, but will he bear in mind that this operation is sometimes performed 20 times more frequently in some areas than in others and that a thorough investigation into the circumstances of the operation might save much unnecessary suffering and occasional deaths?

I have a good deal of sympathy with my hon. Friend on this matter. I reckon that £3 million a year is spent on these operations. There is a profound difference of opinion in the medical profession about their value. The last research came to no agreement. I am hoping to get more success with the second round of investigation.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services on what date he proposes to close the Adele Shaw Orthopaedic Hospital, Kirkbymoorside; and whether he is satisfied that alternative facilities will be available by that date.

The hospital will not be closed for in-patients until alternative facilities are available. This will probably be next spring. Facilities for outpatients, including simple X-ray and physiotherapy, will continue.

Is the Minister aware that recently the senior surgeon at Scarborough complained of serious overcrowding and shortage of staffed beds in hospitals throughout the area? Will he therefore reconsider his decision to close this hospital in the spring, because of the widespread concern about what is regarded as a very precipitate decision?

The right hon. Gentleman should not consider the action precipitate. I gather that all the children about whom we have taken special trouble will be- successfully placed—long-stay child patients by next January, and orthopaedic patients by the end of February—and then there will be a total closure of the in-patient department of the hospital.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what is the estimated number of employees currently covered by occupational pension schemes; what percentage this represents of the total number of employees; and what has been the estimated growth in numbers covered by occupational pension arrangements during the past five years.

The latest available estimates relate to the end of 1967, when about 12,200,000 employees, representing 52 per cent. of all employees, were members of occupational pension schemes. Over the previous four years membership had increased by 1.1 million.

As the Leader of the House has indicated that there may be a third White Paper on the Government's superannuation scheme, would this not be a suitable occasion for a timely repentance by the hon. Member and his Ministry? Will they authorise only that kind of Government scheme which will encourage this welcome growth in occupational schemes?

I want first to make it clear that there have been three White Papers already concerning the new scheme. The first, published in January, set out the general terms. The second, dealing with the short-term benefits, was published in July. The third, published two or three weeks ago, dealt with the partially contracted-out terms. When the Bill is published there will be another White Paper, as an Explanatory Memorandum accompanying it. As to the hon. Member's main supplementary question, it would be absurd for the Government not to go boldly forward to decide that we must provide much better social security provisions for those who have no occupational pension to depend upon, and to adjust our provisions so as to enable us to work in close partnership with occupational schemes.

Is my hon. Friend aware that many of the direct and surreptitious attacks coming from hon. Members opposite are born either because of a touching on that remote phenomenon—the Tory conscience—or because they are jealous of what we are doing? Will my hon. Friend continue in this way to assure 12 million of our people that when they retire they will be cared for and looked after and not ignored as they were by the party opposite?

My hon. Friend has obviously a much clearer understanding of the Conservative viewpoint on this matter than I have. I am anxiously awaiting the day when the Conservative Party can explain just what it does think on this extremely important question.

In view of what the hon. Gentleman has said in answer to this and an earlier Question, about what happened under a previous Administration, is he aware that under that Administration pensioners received substantially larger increase than are guaranteed by his right hon. Friend's proposals?

As the House knows, the increases under the present Government have helped to raise the real value of the pension, and under the new scheme not only will existing pensioners be guaranteed a share in the rising standard of living but new pensioners will be able to take full advantage of the new scheme.

Why does the Minister avoid answering the questions put to him? Is it not a fact that the rise in the real purchasing power of the pension under the Conservative Administration was over 50 per cent., whereas the rise under the present Government, including the recent increase, is 20 per cent?

We have had only five years in office, and the noble Lord and his party had 13 years. I can assure him that by the time my Government have been in power for 13 years we shall have a very proud record.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what is the estimated proportion of hospital doctors employed by the National Health Service originating from new Commonwealth countries; and what change in this proportion has occurred over the past four years.

Seventeen per cent' of hospital doctors employed in National Health Service hospitals in England and Wales at 30th September, 1968, were known to have been born in Commonwealth countries other than Canada, Australia or New Zealand. At 30th September, 1965, the earliest date for which information is available, the proportion was 15 per cent.

Is there any branch of the hospital service which is particularly heavily dependent on overseas doctors? Has the right hon. Gentleman's attention been drawn to a recent suggestion that of doctors below senior registrar level those coming from overseas account for 48 per cent. of the total employed? I appreciate that this is wider than the terms of my original Question.

It is a rather different question. The hon. Gentleman is right to say that if we take the junior levels the percentage is much higher. That is precisely why we decided to implement the Todd Commission recommendations and to provide 1,000 more medical places in our schools, so as to replace them, because we think that there should not be such a high proportion of our younger doctors coming from countries overseas where they are badly needed.

Notwithstanding the anxiety of my right hon. Friend and all hon. Members on this side of the House, is it not a fact that the National Health Service training facilities are a most important factor in improving world health generally?

I think that that is so, but they would probably be an even bigger factor if we had a higher proportion of our doctors trained here, allowing a higher number of those who come here to go back.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he is aware that a number of the children affected by the drug thalidomide are unable to obtain compensation obtained by others; and if he will take steps to remove this anomaly.

I understand that the distinction here results from the operation of the Statute of Limitations and I am afraid I have no power to intervene. I shall be writing to the hon. Member about the case of which he sent me particulars.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that my young constituent, Elizabeth Kelly, and only six other young people are prevented from obtaining a settlement from the company which is available to the others similarly affected simply because of a legal anomaly? Is there no action he can take? Could he perhaps make an appeal to the company concerned?

I, too, am disturbed about this case. It is not a legal anomaly but part of our present legal system which excludes this girl from the chance of a settlement. I would like to discuss the case with the hon. Gentleman. I do not at present see what I can do, but i would like to try very hard to help.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services whether, in view of the Latey Report, he will amend paragraph 12 of his Circular 15/67 on "Birth Control Advice and treatment for the Unmarried".

This is not necessary. I am sure local authorities can be relied on to relate the change in the age of majority to this and other services.

That is a far from satisfactory reply. Is not my right hon. Friend aware that both local authorities and the Family Planning Association are dragging their feet over the provision of adequate birth control services for the unmarried? Will he send out an amending circular?

I think that if my hon. Friend studies my Answer he will find that it was correct. The question of services for the unmarried is not the same as the question of services according to age. As far as I know, services for the unmarried are being increasingly given in local authorities. This is not the question my hon. Friend asked me.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a statement on the action he intends to take to help those disabled who will not benefit from the proposed constant attendance allowance and invalidity pension.

The new benefits we propose are designed to help those disabled people who suffer most hardship. These include all who are so seriously handicapped as to need a lot of help from other people in the ordinary functions of daily living, people of working age with a disability which keep them off work for a long period, and those who will never be able to work again.

I appreciate the new benefits, but my Question asked about the thousands of severely disabled people who will not receive them. Will my hon. Friend be more specific, and say "None" if he means none, and recognise that his Answer will cause profound concern among the disabled?

My hon. Friend perhaps under-estimates the importance of the new invalidity pension and the constant attendance allowance. Severely disabled people incapable of full-time work are already entitled to sickness benefits and supplementary benefits, or both, and they will continue to be so entitled.

What estimate has the Minister of the numbers who will be helped by the constant attendance allowance? Is it not intolerable that this does not come in until 1972, and that more is not being done now for the many thousands of disabled who will not be helped by the Government's plans?

I would not care to give an estimate now. This sort of figure will be given when the Bill to provide for the allowance is published. The hon. Gentleman uses the word "deplorable", but we must recognise that this is the first time such an attendance allowance has been introduced, and I am surprised that, instead of carping, the hon. Gentleman is not congratulating the Government on introducing a Measure that his party never thought of.

We welcome this move forward, but does not the hon. Gentleman agree that it should be a much higher priority in the state of present knowledge than writing pension cheques for the next generation to honour?

It is not just a question of writing pension cheques which the next generation will honour. We are doing two things in the new scheme. By paying at new rates we are establishing an entitlement to higher rates of benefit, but we are also paying for the pensions of those who today are pensioners.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will institute a Departmental study into methods used by other countries to provide pensions for all disabled persons, with particular reference to their suitability for Great Britain, from information available from international sources.

We already have a good deal of information about the provision for the various classes of disabled people in other countries. We have taken this into account in formulating our own proposals for the new earnings-related invalidity pension and the attendance allowance, in which we have thought it right to give priority to those who are hardest hit.

Is my hon. Friend aware that some countries give more generous provision for the disabled than we do? I welcome the new proposals, but is any study being made of the proposal for a pension for disabled housewives?

I could not accept my hon. Friend's generalisation that other countries make more generous provision for the disabled than we do. There are one or two cases where we must look with admiration at them, but in general the provision made in this country, certainly under the new scheme, will put us way ahead of most other countries.

Will the Minister consider publishing the considerable information that he says his Department has, so that Members concerned about the problem of disablement in this country have a chance to make comparative studies?

Yes, Sir. As I think the hon. Lady knows, the Government Social Survey has been conducting a study of disability in this country. The study is already completed and the material is being analysed. We hope that at least some of it can be published to be considered when Parliament is considering the new constant attendance allowance, and then the remaining part of the report will be published during the next year.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if he will make a statement on his visit to Birmingham to investigate the affairs of the Birmingham Regional Hospital Board on 21st November.

The main object of my visit was to discuss the internal and public relations of the board. It unanimously agreed with me on the need at one and the same time to observe the normal rules of confidentiality following the model of, for example, the Birmingham City Council and simultaneously to improve the present quite inadequate flow of information from the board to the public.

In thanking my right hon. Friend for coming to Birmingham and for all he did with the board, may I ask what guarantee he can now give that the flow of information will improve and that there will be greater public participation at early stages of planning in the schemes of this hitherto thoroughly secretive hospital board?

I do not think that I would accept the word "secretive" of the hospital board. I would put it this way. The board, with an enormous area stretching from Stoke in the north right through to Stratford in the south, had particular difficulties with information. I have given consent to the appointment and building-up of an information unit, and my own information officer will be making a visit to ensure that it is done in a professional way. No professionals can guarantee it, but I think that we have a good chance of improving it a good deal.

Would the right hon Gentleman agree that it is not so much a flow of information which is wanted from the hospital board but a flow of finance from the central Government to carry out this commitment?

That is a different question, on which the hon. Member can put down a Question to me.

Would the Secretary of State agree that one of the ways to resolve the problem would have been to split the board, which covers a very large area, into two and enable the many areas not at present represented on the board because of the size of the area to have effective and personal representation?

I had informal discussions with the board this time about this and I was struck again by the not quite unanimous but overwhelming opinion that administratively and medically the area is a defensible one and that it would be difficult to divide it without cutting off part of it from any teaching hospital. That would make the cut-off area a weak and ineffective unit.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services when he expects to receive the report undertaken by the Social Survey Department into the provision and adequacy of existing family planning services.

I have nothing yet to add to my Reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Bebington (Mr. Brooks) on 14th July.—[Vol. 787, c. 20.]

I am not familiar with the terms of that reply, but am I right in thinking that my right hon. Friend will have the report some time next year? Moreover, may I press him to give the House an assurance that he will not wait for publication of the report before he begins to press the various authorities throughout the country which are not yet providing an adequate service?

I can certainly give the assurance asked for in the second part of that question, because I am pressing the authorities already and I am not at all content that they are doing all they can even with their limited resources. The survey will be a big and thorough one. The Government's Social Survey hopes shortly to embark on a pilot survey, and the big survey will commerce next year. We should be getting results finalised and tabulated by the end of the year.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services how many dentists between the ages of 60 to 65 years are not in receipt of the full pension to which they are entitled.

I know of none, but the pension of a dental practitioner who has retired from the National Health Service and who resumes practice, or who undertakes further employment paid for from public funds, is reduced if pension and earnings together amount to more than the practitioner's highest rate of earnings before retirement. I estimate that such a reduction applies to about 100 practitioners in the age group mentioned by the hon. Member.

Is the Minister aware that it is in the cases which he has mentioned and to which I particularly refer that the bunching of receipts from part-time work under the National Health Service sometimes takes place, with the result that the annual total is below the limit of abatement of pension to which a practitioner is entitled?

As the hon. Member knows, provision for abatement of pensions as a result of re-employment is a normal condition of public service schemes. If, however, the hon. Member has any particular problems on the lines mentioned by him perhaps he would care to write to me about them.

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services whether he will inquire into the practices adopted by some dental practitioners of administering intravenous anaesthetics without the attendance of any other suitably qualified person; and if he will make a statement.

I have already received advice on this subject in a report on dental anaesthesia by a joint subcommittee of my Standing Dental and Medical Advisory Committees. This concludes that the practice of a dental surgeon acting as his own anaesthetist is to be deprecated, irrespective of the method of induction he employs. Consultations with the British Dental Association on the action to be taken are in progress.

In saying how grateful I am to the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I also say that I share his anxiety and that of many other people about some of the existing practices and that I shall look forward to hearing what he has to say at a later date?

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services whether he will publish figures for the past five years showing the number of cases where patients have made allegations of breach of terms of service by general medical practitioners, and the number where no breach has been found by the Service Committee.

Such figures have already been published up to 1968, in the Annual Reports of my Department and its predecessor.

If the extra figures which are due to be published indicate, as I suspect, that there is an increasing number of allegations, would the Secretary of State care to say whether he agrees with me that this is due to an increased inclination to complain rather than to a lowering of standards in the Health Service?

If the hon. Member looks at the published figures, I think he will find that they do not show a steady increase. I do not think that the deduction made by the hon. Member can be drawn from them.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications (1) if he is aware that an effective dog repellant is now being manufactured in Great Britain which does not require any change in the Firearms Act, 1968; and if he will now give a general direction to the Post Office to supply this to postmen who request it;

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will give a general direction to the Post Office Board that 4d. and 5d. mail should not be separately sorted on Fridays.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will indicate the number of people who have taken out a Giro account; and what the current financial position is.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will give a general direction to the Post Office Board regarding the siting of post offices and the services to be provided by existing post offices

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will issue a general direction to the Post Office Board to issue commemorative stamps on the occasions of the anniversary of English saints.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will give a general direction to the Post Office Board to discontinue their policy of abandoning postmarks for individual towns in favour of larger groupings where those towns have a significant cultural and historic interest, and are valuable as part of the country's tourist industry.

With permission, I will answer this Question and Questions Nos. 36, 37, 38, 43, 53 and 54 together.

Order. It helps the Chair to know in advance which Questions are being answered together.

On Question No. 35, is my right hon. Friend aware that this is one of the reasons why difficulty has arisen in recruitment? Is he aware that in other countries postmen can have these repellants? Will he not reconsider his decision?

My hon. Friend has established a reputation as an expert in the problems of repelling dogs, and I know that the Post Office will respect his view and take note of it.

May I insist that my right hon. Friend gives a decent answer to Questions as they appear on the Order Paper? It is not good enough to lump them together in this way and attempt to score a political point when he knows that the argument concerning the corporation is still proceeding? Is my right hon. Friend aware that in many areas there are no Saturday morning deliveries, and, at best, there are some areas in which there is a delivery on alternate Saturday mornings? Therefore, if both the 4d. and the 5d. post are delivered simultaneously on a Monday morning, what benefit does a person who uses the service get from using a 5d. stamp on a Friday?

It was the decision of Parliament that the operational details of running the postal service should be transferred to a corporation. It was so transferred on 1st October. It is, therefore, up to the Post Office, and not for me, to consider the proposals now being put forward.

On a point of order. As my two Questions were on quite different subjects but the Minister's answer did not cover them, am I now entitled, Mr. Speaker, to put a supplementary on the second Question?

No. There is no such entitlement.

On a point of order. Am I not entitled to an answer to my Question, Mr. Speaker, if it has been accepted for the Order Paper?

The hon. Gentleman is entitled to an answer. The Minister is entitled to answer the Question in the way he chooses. That is a matter for the Minister.

Further to the point of order—

May I make it quite clear, for the benefit of those who did not hear, that my answer to each of these Questions was, "No, Sir"? I do not propose to give a general direction in the particular case requested. That was the Answer also to Questions No. 36, 37, 38. 43, 53 and 54.

On a point of order. May I draw attention to the Ministers previous answer defining his position? If he has been appointed Minister of Posts, Mr. Speaker, ought he not to answer, or be liable to answer, Questions dealing with the posting of letters?

The right hon. Gentleman's answer was perfectly in order. That is all I am concerned about.

Would it not be a courtesy to the House at least to let hon. Members know that their Questions will not be answered, so that they need not come here and wait for that service? Second, on Question No. 38, surely the Minister can indicate the number of people who have opened a Giro account. Surely that is something which we could be told without all this fuss.

In its Report each year, the Post Office gives the number of Giro accounts. If I were to accept that an answer had to be given concerning the number of individual accounts every time a Member put down such a Question, this would interfere with the detailed operation of the Giro service by the Post Office, which acts in competition with other banking organisations. This House made a decision that the business of the Post Office should be run as a corporation and it is now my responsibility, as the Minister sponsoring the Post Office, to ensure that it is subjected to no more cross-examination on its operational details than is any other public authority.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that, had he not attempted to lump all these answers together, it is possible that he could have answered my Question No. 38 about the Giro account? Is he further aware that it will disturb many hon. Members if he persists in this sort of reply? Will he either mutter or think aloud, even if he cannot give the answer, as to what he is doing about publicity and public relations in order to build up the Giro service? Failing to answer here will not help the publicity.

rose—

Before my right hon. Friend answers that question, may I raise a point of order, Mr. Speaker?

Raising points of order holds up Question Time. The hon. Gentleman has had a good run already.

I realise that, Mr. Speaker, but it is the Minister who is interfering more with Question Time than I am by points of order. I have put a legitimate Question on the Order Paper and hon. Members have a right to expect a reasonable reply from a Minister. If he is not prepared to give the House a reply to a Question, he should no longer remain a Minister.

Order. I have ruled on that point of order already. No Minister is bound to please an hon. Member with his answer.

On a point of order. Mr. Speaker. I protest most strongly that the Minister, coming here this afternoon with barely 15 minutes in which to answer Questions, has lumped together half-a-dozen on which he is not prepared to give an answer. Whether I, by my point of order, prevent other hon. Members getting answers or not, I submit that we have witnessed a grave reflection on the Minister's approach to this House and I beg you to consider the matter.

The Chair has considered all that has happened but what has happened is in order. Mr. Crouch.

rose—

On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, my supplementary did not receive an answer from the Minister, in whatever form he cares to put it, because of points of order. I have a right to a supplementary answer.

The Giro business is a matter directly for the Board of the Post Office Corporation, which has this matter well in hand. It would not be appropriate for me, when Parliament has decided to put the commercial operations of the Post Office into the hands of the board, to attempt to answer on details about which the corporation is directly concerned.

rose—

Mr. Crouch—supplementary question. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman is not aware that his Question was answered with No. 35. Does he wish to put a supplementary question?

I was not aware that I was being called for a supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, but if I am I would put it to the Minister that I am concerned that he should take note of the fact that there is festival taking place in this country next year—the Becket Festival, commemorating the eighth hundredth anniversary. If it is possible for the right hon. Gentleman to give a general direction to the new department to issue a special anniversary stamp, he has surely the right to give this matter such consideration. I ask him, therefore, to give special consideration now to this question.

I had given consideration to this matter and I have decided that it would not be appropriate for me to use the weapon of a general direction in this case.

Mr. Kenneth Baker—Question No. 40.

rose—

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. What Question are we at now?

As in the case of similar nationalised boards, the hon. Gentleman will learn which Questions he can ask by grim experience.

rose—

Order. The hon. Gentleman can raise his point of order at the end of Question Time.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

Not in Question Time.

I have been in the Chamber all the time. It is not a question of experience but of hearing. I asked you, Mr. Speaker, what Question we are at.

We are at Question No. 40.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will publish the capital expenditure programme for the Post Office Corporation for the next five years.

I would ask the hon. Member to await publication of the forthcoming White Paper on Public Expenditure.

Why this delay? The right hon. Gentleman does not seem to have much of a job as Minister answering Questions in the House. Why does he not spend time preparing the capital expenditure programme, which has been delayed for nine months? As the Post Office spends over £1 million a day in capital, will we have a chance to discuss the programme when it is published?

This programme has been worked out in association with my co leagues, and the details will be released shortly.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what general directions he proposes to give to the Post Office Corporation regarding the future of the telegram service.

None, Sir.

As the telegram service loses over £2 million a year, and as every telegram sent loses 6s., when is the Minister going to do something either to make the service more efficient or to discontinue it, apart from life and death messages?

It is now for the Post Office to formulate its own plans for its own future services. Once it has done that, the Minister himself will look at it.

Will the hon. Gentleman explain how he saw his way to answering Question No. 41, which is about the detailed operations of the Post Office, while the right hon. Gentleman refuses to answer a dozen other questions for that very reason?

I was asked by the hon. Member for Acton (Mr. Kenneth Baker) what general direction the Minister proposed. I said, "None".

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunica- tions when a television service will be generally available in Wester Lochaber.

The B.B.C. and the I.T.A. tell me that their joint programme for extending television service has not yet reached the stage of planning for places so thinly populated as Wester Lochaber.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this is unsatisfactory? Large areas all over the country cannot look forward in the foreseeable future to any television service at all. Should there not be some provision for the B.B.C. to provide a piped supply?

No, Sir. As the hon. Gentleman knows, only a fraction of the population of Wester Lochaber would be served from a single relay station, and the smallest number of sets served by any low-powered relay station in existence is 1,000.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what is the total sum of money currently being spent in Scotland towards detecting users of television sets who are evading licence payment.

The Post Office tells me that this information is not easily available. Throughout the United Kingdom, some £800,000 is being spent on counter-evasion measures in 1969–70.

Can my hon. Friend confirm that the figure of detection in Scotland is not available because Scots people are more law abiding than people elsewhere?

I know that the Scots are very law abiding but the direct answer is that the Post Office cannot break down these figures of investigation work into areas because it obtains them by sampling methods aimed at producing the total cost and not the costs in particular areas.

Having regard to the fact that the total loss of revenue for radio and television licences is estimated at £7·5 million out of £79 million collected, is this not an inordinately high percentage? Is it not time the Minister changed the whole system, scrapped licensing altogether and attached an equivalent cost to the capital cost of the machine or set itself in the first instance?

That is a much wider question. If the hon. Gentleman will put it down, we will be prepared to answer it.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what changes have now taken place in the administrative machinery of his Department in relation to his responsibility to the House concerning the telephone services.

My responsibilities for the telephone service are defined in the Post Office Act 1969, and have not changed since my Ministry was established on 1st October last.