asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he will initiate discussions with a view to amending the Water Resources Act, 1963, to relieve the hardship being encountered by people who have to pay an annual fee of £5 to river authorities for abstracting water.

Preliminary discussions are taking place concerning possible amendments to the Water Resources Act, 1963, and these include the question of the licence fee.

Have all the river authorities in Wales, in addition to the Severn and Wye River Authorities, shown interest in this?

I cannot speak for all authorities, but consultations are going on among ourselves, the Ministry of Housing and Local Government, the Water Resources Board and the Association of River Authorities.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will forbid the use of sports facilities in Wales under the control of his Department by the Springbok football team.

There are no sports facilities under the control of my Department.

Would my right hon. Friend agree that concern in Wales for personal freedom and human rights is just as active as concern for rugby football? Would he further agree that the events at Swansea recently reflected no great credit on the forces of law and order in Wales? Will he in future use his undoubted personal influence to prevent neo-Nazi football teams from polluting the soil of Wales?

My hon. Friend raised many subjects in that supplementary question. My views on apartheid are well known and I am positive that they are shared by the overwhelming majority of the Welsh people.

Is it not undesirable for us to say anything in this connection that might exacerbate anything that has happened in the past?

I do not think that anybody has tried to exacerbate it. We all have a right to show what our sentiments are where sport is based on race.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will take steps to bring the provisions of the Housing Act, 1969, to the attention of Welsh local authorities.

As well as the circulars and leaflets which have been issued, three very successful conferences were held in Port Talbot and Llandudno in October. All Welsh local authorities were invited to participate and the response was almost complete. Over 500 delegates attended the conferences and all but 13 local authorities were represented.

That is a helpful answer, because the benefits of this Act are particularly relevant to Wales. What is being done to bring the concept of the general improvement area, an innovation in the Measure, to the attention of the relevant local authorities?

We have at the various conferences been calling attention to the general improvement area concept. I am glad to see that a general improvement area has been declared by one local authority, that four other improvement area schemes have been submitted informally and that officials of my Department have in every possible way been encouraging local authorities to declare general improvement areas.

As the National Coal Board is one of the biggest landlords in South Wales, is my hon. Friend satisfied that the N.C.B. is doing all that it should in accordance with the spirit of the Act?

I am well aware that the N.C.B. is one of the largest landlords in Wales, and in particular is one of the largest holders of the oldest of our housing stock. I am hoping very soon to have discussions with the N.C.B. to see what action it intends to take in connection with improvement grants.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he expects his officials to complete their review of local government reorganisation in the counties of Glamorgan and Monmouthshire.

I hope to complete my review about the turn of the year.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that that is a most reassuring Answer, in view of newspaper reports about there having been indecent haste to ensure that the report is completed within three weeks? Can he go further and say what consultation he anticipates after the report is received by him?

When I have reported my views and proposals to the House I shall, of course, be ready, anxious and willing to talk to all authorities concerned with my proposals.

We have been all through this once or twice before. Although I commiserate with the right hon. Gentleman in his difficulty, may I ask him to give an assurance that we will have an opportunity to debate this matter fully in the House? Will he also repeat his assurance to have further consultations, not merely with the Glamorgan and Monmouthshire local authorities, but with all Welsh local authorities which wish to have such consultation?

I can give no such undertaking. I wish to make it perfectly clear to the House that the proposals for the remainder of Wales, outside Glamorgan and Monmouthshire, stand as we put them in the White Paper. As for the House debating the matter, that is not a matter for me. The hon. Gentleman might consider the Welsh Grand Committee for such a debate.

Does my right hon. Friend appreciate that the indecision of his Department in this matter is causing considerable consternation and anxiety, particularly in the County Borough of Newport? Will he now say when his original White Paper proposals will be implemented, bearing in mind that he has declared his public support for them on many occasions?

I think my hon. Friend is a little mistaken. It is not indecision which has upset Newport, but the decision I announced which upset Newport. I assure him that it would have been wrong—[HON. MEMBERS: "Which decision?"] Patience is a virtue. The proposals will in due course be made known to the House.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what further consideration has been given to the question of an increase in the grant for Welsh books

I am pleased to say that the Government grant will be increased from £7,500 to £12,500 a year for the three-year period beginning 1970–71. This represents an increase of 150 per cent. since 1964–65.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that his reply will be very well received by those concerned about the future of the language? Is he further aware that this demonstration of practical help is a far more effective way of helping the language than destructive action taken by some people?

I much appreciate my hon. Friend's remarks. He was very lately concerned in the affairs of this Department. I hope that this act on the part of the Government will rightly be seen in Wales as a further gesture of our concern for the language and our determination to sustain it.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Government's sense and scale of values are shown by the fact that whereas they have been spending only £7,000 a year to assist the oldest living literature in this island, and perhaps in Europe, they have spent quite recently no less than £426,000 on building a palatial residence for the Ambassador in Franco Spain?

I am surprised at the hon. Member. Above all, I thought that as he purports to be a friend of the Welsh language he would have appreciated the decision that has been taken to make this substantial increase in the Government's contribution towards the publication of books in Wales. I consider his attitude today to be mean-minded and petty.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what proportion of the water collected in Welsh reservoirs is used in England; and what is the daily gallonage involved.

As the hon. Member was told on 21st March, 1967, and 10th April, 1968, it is not practicable to give such figures for the new regulating reservoirs. These and the older impounding reservoirs from which water is taken directly into supply for use in England account at present for nearly 70 per cent. of the storage capacity of reservoirs in Wales. The average daily quantity taken into use from the older reservoirs in 1958 was 136 million gallons.—[Vol. 743, c. 236; Vol. 762, c. 286.]

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that if the Government had not broken their promise, either given cynically or broken cynically, to establish a Welsh Water Board there would today be a safeguard against the depredations made on Welsh rural com- munities, and Wales today would be receiving a substantial income of millions of pounds from the sale of this very rich national resource?

The hon. Member must live in cloud-cuckoo-land. He is responsible to this House and to the people of Wales for not misleading the Welsh people. Water would still be required if he had his way. This Answer ought to satisfy any reasonable person.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in Italy the town of Milan extracts water from a river which subsequently flows into a Swiss canton and it pays the Swiss canton an indemnity for the loss of water it would otherwise have gained. Can he, on this analogy, envisage a situation in which Wales will be paying England? Can my right hon. Friend envisage a situation in which we shall have a kind of western range war between English local authorities and Wales over rights to water holes?

Water is essential for life. [AN HON. MEMBER: "Not too much of it."] I confine myself to water. The United Kingdom is one, and the people of these islands will be in a sorry way if ever bigoted people try so to divide the United Kingdom that the essentials of life are withheld.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he is submitting evidence to be included in Her Majesty's Government's analysis of the effects of entering the European Economic Community showing its probable industrial, economic and social consequences in Wales.

The Government will continue to take account of the implications for Wales and, indeed, for all parts of the United Kingdom, of British entry into the European Economic Community.

Is the right hon Gentleman aware that the revelation made at the Crowther Commission's last sitting by a candid civil servant—that the Welsh Office has made no study at all of the possible effects on Wales of entry to the Common Market—will come as no surprise and will be understood as another illustration of the fact that the Government here in London never consider the effects on Wales?

I hate to disagree with the hon. Member, as he is well aware. All civil servants in the Welsh Office are candid at all times, but I must tell him that as a member of the Government I am of course involved in any economic study of the consequences of joining the European Economic Community. My first consideration is the interests of Wales.

Can my right hon. Friend give similar information to that asked for in the Question as to the effects on Wales of a refusal by England to accord to a separate Wales the recognition that is asked for in the Question? Can he inform the House of what studies are at present being made by the Welsh Office of such possibilities on entry into the Common Market?

We never cease from such studies.

In view of the studies, could the right hon. Gentleman tell us what he considers the consequences for Welsh agriculture, for which he is responsible, would be if we were to enter the Common Market?

Of course I am very conscious of my responsibilities along with those of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture. I can assure the House and the hon. Member that I am keeping in very close touch with my right hon. Friend on this matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many traffic accidents involving sheep were reported in Glamorgan and Monmouthshire during 1968.

1,221; 909 in Glamorgan and 312 in Monmouthshire.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that this is a growing and serious problem? Will he convey to the Government my thanks and appreciation for introducing legislation which will go quite a way to meet this situation?

I am much obliged to my hon. Friend. I hope that the proposed legislation will have the effect which he has in mind. He may be interested to know that in 1968, in Glamorgan and Monmouthshire, 25 per cent. of such accidents involved sheep, 70 per cent. involved dogs and 5 per cent. other animals.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what effect the importation of English coals is having upon the policies of local authorities in South Wales in relation to the implementation of the Clean Air Act, 1966.

A few local authorities have indicated to my right hon. Friend concern about the effects of an increasing use of high volatile coal supplied to their areas by the National Coal Board: but he knows of no formal action they are proposing to take.

Is my hon. Friend aware that, apart from the anomaly of importing coal into an area which has many coal mines, there is also a serious anomaly with the importation of high volatile coal over short periods, as this is creating serious smoke problems for my local authorities?

We are aware of that. Welsh Office officials have had discussions with the National Coal Board and we are keeping in touch on this matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what additional moneys have been allocated to each of the highway authorities in Wales as a winter programme for improvement and maintenance to be completed by 31st March, 1970.

With permission, I will publish this information in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Would the Secretary of State kindly look up the figure for Brecon-shire and Radnorshire? Will he be able to increase the amount because of possible redundancies in Breconshire?

I always try to help my hon. Friend because he is so reasonable. I must point out that the amounts allocated to Breconshire and Radnorshire for road works this year represent the same percentage of the total available for roads as last year, namely 4 per cent.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that the cuts-back in road maintenance over the past few years have had a very great effect upon the standards of roads in all counties of Wales? Why is it that he could not

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he is satisfied with the facilities provided for disabled people using wheelchairs to gain admission to public buildings under his control in Wales; and if he will make a statement.

It is not always easy to adapt existing buildings to take wheelchairs but my right hon. Friend would like all public authorities to do what they can. When planning new buildings the needs of the disabled should always be taken into account.

The hon. Gentleman must either have a poor memory or a thick skin to suggest that money spent on road maintenance in Wales is inadequate. Let him look at what his party spent when in power and then look at what we spent. We are talking now about a winter works programme, and it is very different.

Is my hon. Friend aware that I am very pleased with that answer, because many of us on this side of the House receive numerous complaints from various bodies in Wales complaining about the difficulties which these unfortunate people have?

Might I suggest to my hon. Friend, and to other hon. Members, that they do what I have done as a constituency Member, and write to all local authorities in their constituency, drawing their attention to this need?

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he is satisfied with the rate of progress of clearing derelict land in Wales; and whether he will make a statement.

Good progress is being made. Fifty-eight schemes for grant involving nearly 1,400 acres have been approved. Their cost is over £3 million and grant of about £2,250,000 has been approved. A total of 35 schemes have been completed and 500 acres of land reclaimed. A further 100 schemes are at various stages of consideration.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that most encouraging reply, and while trusting that progress will continue, may I ask him whether he is satisfied that the National Coal Board and British Rail are doing all they should be doing to clear up their abandoned sites?

I am not a person easily satisfied. I will look into the matters my hon. Friend has raised.

While thanking the right hon. Gentleman for that reply may I ask him whether, with the run-down of much of the coal industry and the need for new industry in the South Wales valleys, he might contemplate giving this particular need an even higher priority in future? Is he aware that this might be one of the best ways to improve the prospects of the South Wales area?

The record of Her Majesty's Government with regard to derelict land unit activities in Wales is one of spectacular success. It is outstanding how much has been achieved. If we can go faster we will.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales why there has been a delay in providing the Newtown Development Corporation with the necessary funds for proceeding with its housing plans.

The Development Corporation's first housing contract was approved on 23rd October, 1969. The delay was due mainly to the need to examine closely the design and layout of the development, the high cost and the overall financial viability of the project.

Is the hon. Lady aware that there are three completed factories in Newtown but no houses for the workers in those factories? Is she further aware that Treasury delay in approving the money has caused embarrassment?

It is expected that the first 10 houses in the contract will be ready for occupation by the end of March and the balance will be completed before the autumn. The second phase can then begin. I am aware of the local apprehensions, but I think the programme will meet the need.

Would my hon. Friend agree that everyone would have been more assured of the viability of the housing programme in this area had the Member for Parliament for the area supported the establishment of the development corporation in his own constituency?

There are other reasons why one regrets the lack of support by the hon. and learned Member for Montgomery (Mr. Hooson). I could not honestly say that the housing programme was really affected by his attitude, one way or another.

On a point of order. Is it correct for the hon. Member for Merioneth (Mr. William Edwards) deliberately to misrepresent my views on this? As the Secretary of State knows, I supported the setting up of the Newtown Development Corporation.

Order. It was natural for the hon. and learned Gentleman to rise, but it is not a point of order.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what steps have been taken to publish Welsh Accounts on the lines of the Scottish Accounts recently published; and when their publication can be expected.

It is intended to prepare Welsh Accounts on the lines of those recently published for Scotland. The complex work involved will be done as quickly as possible but I cannot say at this stage when the results will be published.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the great interest taken in Wales about the publication of the Scottish Accounts? May we expect the Welsh Accounts to be published early in the new year?

It took a long time and a lot of work to get those Scottish Accounts. The accounts are very complex and there are certain factors which it is difficult to assess. I assure the hon. and learned Gentleman that no one is waiting more anxiously for these figures than I am.

When these Welsh Accounts are published will my right hon. Friend consider, with the authorities of the House, if the Welsh Estimates can be considered in the Welsh Grand Committee?

This is a very useful suggestion, which I will examine carefully.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will give consideration to reducing tax on bird seed.

I do not think that a concession for bird seed could be justified as the tax applies to prepared pet foods generally.

Although this is not the most momentous issue before Treasury Ministers, could it be borne in mind that, basically, this tax affects the old and the lonely, and might well, therefore, be taken seriously when thought is given to the build-up of the Budget?

I respect the pertinacity with which my hon. Friend has pursued this matter. I entirely agree when he says that among those who keep birds there are many old people, but, although I sympathise, this could be said in regard to other pets as well.

As vice-president of the Banbury Cage Birds Society, may I ask the Minister to reconsider the matter? Will he give to the elderly some such concession as his hon. Friend mentioned?

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his high office, and I note what he says, but the problem is difficult and many other owners of pets are similarly affected.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what he is doing to recruit qualified staff to the Inland Revenue, in the light of delays at tax offices such as East Kilbride.

There have been some transitional problems at East Kilbride, where there have been shortages, particularly of experienced staff. But vigorous local recruitment should mean that numbers will be up to the authorised complement by the end of the year.

What has been learnt for the future from what has happened at East Kilbride in relation to the transfer from orthodox offices to a computer system? What has been learnt from these difficulties?

We foresaw that there would probably be some difficulty in obtaining experienced staff; to ensure that the job is properly done, they have to undergo some training. The whole experience will be evaluated, and what we have learned will be used on similar comparable occasions.

In his deliberations, will the Minister recognise that taxpayers like to raise their queries at the local office? Is he aware that many of my constituents have to take time off from work to travel to the East Kilbride Inland Revenue office to raise their queries, and will he give an assurance that no further centralisation of this kind will take place?

The main concern of taxpayers is that business shall be dealt with effectively and efficiently. We have to recognise not only local preferences and requirements but the wish of the general body of taxpayers to have the job done effectively at the least possible cost.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what discussions he has had with a view to ending the rôle of sterling as a reserve currency; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend has had no discussions on this topic.

Does it remain the Chancellor's intention to end all aspects of Britain's sterling reserve role? Has he had discussions, and has he come to any conclusion about any possible effect which this would have on invisible earnings, or does he believe that it would have no effect at all?

My hon. Friend has not expressed the Chancellor's position fully or correctly. My right hon. Friend's position is that he would be content to see a reduction in this role in the long term, provided that two conditions were satisfied: first, that the interests of sterling holders were fully protected, and second, that the needs of world liquidity were protected.

asked the Chancellorof the Exchequer if he will ensure that all Government contracts have a clausein them that will insist that no discrimination on racial or any other grounds has been under taken by the contractor with regard to employment.

My right hon. Friend's reply of 22nd October to my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Wythen-shawe (Mr. Alfred Morris), the standard conditions of Government contracts have been amended to require contractors to conform to the provisions of the Race Relations Act, 1968, relating to discrimination in employment.—[Vol. 783, c. 296–7.]

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what is his estimate of the rise in prices resulting from the adoption by Great Britain of the added-value tax in line with that of the Common Market countries.

That would depend on the rates and coverage of the tax.

Nevertheless, recalling the speech of the then Foreign Secretary, the right hon. Member for Belper (Mr. George Brown) in 1967, will the Chief Secretary reaffirm what was implied in that statement, namely, that if we join the Common Market the Government will then accept the value-added tax or something similar?

In case I have not already pointed this out to the hon. Gentleman, I apologise for not having done so, and I take this opportunity to refer him to what my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said when he dealt with this matter absolutely fully.

My right hon. Friend said that it would depend upon the value-added tax itself. Has he no idea how much it is, either actually or on average, in the Common Market countries? Could he not work on that basis and give us an idea?

No, Sir. I am always anxious to be as helpful to the House as I can, but my hon. Friend will appreciate that he might just as well ask me what would be produced by an income tax, a selective employment tax or any other tax he cared to name. It depends entirely on the rates and the coverage, as I have indicated.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if, in the light of the research involved in the publication "A Scottish Budget", he will give the latest available estimates for the yield of a uniform 1 per cent., 2 per cent., 3 per cent. or 4 per cent. wealth tax on accumulated wealth of £20,000 or over for Scotland.

On the basis of present-day values, the yield of such a tax is estimated at £20 million, £40 million, £60 million and £80 million, respectively.

Does my hon. Friend realise that many workpeople in Scotland and elsewhere in the United Kingdom consider that the present method of taxation falls unfairly, and will he agree that a wealth tax would be a much fairer method of taxation than, for example, S.E.T. or a value-added tax?

I understand exactly what my hon. Friend says, but I do not draw the conclusions which he draws about the present system. I can give no commitment at the moment about a wealth tax.

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that the "Scottish Budget" did not throw any light on this matter, and his answer has nothing to do with the "Scottish Budget", which left us in complete darkness about vital matters such as gross national product, exports and imports, the cost of living index, and the total amount of tax collected relating to Scotland?

No, I do not agree, and I am puzzled at the hon. Lady's inability to understand and see the importance of that document.

asked the Chancellor of Exchequer what representations he has had from the paper industry as a consequence of his recent announcement on the import deposits scheme; and what reply he has sent.

None, Sir.

The paper industry is going through a difficult period, not of its own making. In the circumstances, does not my hon. Friend consider that schemes should be introduced which could be of assistance rather than a hindrance to the paper industry?

My hon. Friend shows a proper concern, but I am afraid that nothing he has said or that we know about the industry would make us feel that there should be any changes as regards import deposits.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what action he proposes to take on the collusion between Swiss banks and United Kingdom citizens for the purpose of evading exchange control, details of which have been sent to him; and if he will make a statement.

I have nothing at present to add to what I said in the Adjournment debate on 13th November. —[Vol 791, c. 743–54.]

Are the reports accurate which seem to indicate that the Swiss authorities told Sir Leslie O'Brien, in the politest Swiss banking terms, that they neither would nor could do anything about it?

I did not read the reports in that spirit, and, had I done so, I should not necessarily have thought them reliable. The Governor spoke to his Swiss opposite number, as I said he intended to do, and I think that his remarks were listened to sympathetically.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what is the amount of income tax which has been refunded consequent upon loss of earnings due to strikes, both official and unofficial, during any recent convenient 12-month period.

This information is not available.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that this is an important item in relation to our national finances, and is it not important also when set alongside social security payments which arise from strikes? Should not the Government keep track of it?

It is important, but the hon. Gentleman does not fully understand the method by which pay-as-you-earn taxation is operated. The refunds to which he refers are mostly made by employers in the ordinary course of events, and it is impossible for the Government, unless they obtain a return from every employer of every reason for each repayment of tax, to give the information for which he asks.

But does not the right hon. Gentleman recognise that one of the anxieties which people have is that the ordinary person, if he becomes entitled to a refund, may have to wait many weeks, or sometimes months, while in these cases special arrangements are made? Will he comment on that?

Yes, with pleasure. The right hon. Gentleman is not accurate in what he says. In the ordinary course of pay-as-you-earn, there is no distinction made in the rate of repayment by the employer whether the employee's entitlement to repayment arises because he is on strike, because his wife has had a baby, because he has got married, or whatever the reason may be.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that, whenever people have overpaid tax, they are fully entitled, even if they be ordinary working men, to a refund?

I agree, and that matter is not even in question.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what tax reliefs the Inland Revenue allow on contributions to private and public service superannuation schemes, on National Insurance contributions, and on lump sums and pensions paid under all schemes.

Briefly, contributions by employees to approved occupational superannuation schemes are allowable deductions to the extent that the scheme provides pensions, or if the scheme is a statutory one. National Insurance contributions do not rank for relief. Lump sums payable out of approved schemes are not taxable on the recipient. All pensions are taxable as earned income.

Does the Minister not agree that there is an anomaly in that people contracting out of the National Insurance scheme gain further tax relief? Will he re-examine this with his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services when considering the new and present schemes? Is he further aware that many pensioners whose total income from superannuation and National Insurance pensions is only slightly above the supplementary benefit level have lost much of their recent 10s. pension increase because of taxation? Will he consider raising the marginal relief allowance for old people to obviate that?

Order. Long supplementary questions cut out other Questions.

The second part of the supplementary question raises much larger issues which cannot be effectively commented on today. Answering the first question, on the face of it, it may be argued, there is some anomaly, but there are justifications for it. I will also draw my hon. Friend's attention to the review of the taxation treatment of superannuation arrangements which is at present being made.

Is the Minister aware that self-employed persons are allowed no lump sum relief because they are not allowed to draw any of their pension as a lump sum? Will he include that anomaly in the review?

It is certainly a point which we should bear in mind.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what is the total of foreign borrowing by the nationalised industries to 1st November or the latest convenient date, and that of local government authorities, which he has authorised; and how much of this is in deutsche marks.

To 1st November nationalised industries have borrowed about £88 million abroad and one local authority about £5 million. Some £64 million is in Deutsche marks.

When has this debt, which totals £100 million, to be repaid? How much has the total interest to be paid been altered by the revaluation of the Deutsche mark?

The total additional cost has already been given in an answer, but I can repeat that the additional cost to the public sector is broadly equal to the additional benefit accruing from the reduction in the rate of interest.

Will the right hon. Gentleman take into consideration the burden which this will place on our overseas invisible account in the future? Will he and the Chancellor of the Exchequer look into the whole question of public corporation and local authority borrowing which at the moment amounts to £2,000 million a year?

I have already explained that the two items are broadly in balance. The net result, therefore, is that we have replaced short-term borrowing with long-term borrowing of the same amount, and that surely is advantageous.

Does the Chief Secretary appreciate that this form of borrowing has the result of increasing the domestic money supply? Is this held to be an advantage or a disadvantage of the scheme?

It is one of the elements of the scheme which has been fully taken into account. Overall the scheme was thought to be, and has proved to be, advantageous.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that it is nothing like the burden which has arisen from the net capital outflow which has restricted our economic growth over the years?

I will gladly bear in mind anything my hon. Friend puts to me

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what assessment he has made of the general effects of the Government's monetary policy; and whether he will now dismantle certain selective methods of monetary restraint, including the hire-purchase regulations and the limits on lending by the joint stock banks.

My present judgment is that monetary policy is achieving a degree of overall credit restraint which is appropriate to our current situation. Relaxation would be premature at this stage; the answer to the second part of the Question is, therefore, "No".

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that that sort of answer confirms the belief that there is a great deal of complacency in the Treasury at the present state of liquidity in British industry? Is he aware that the November edition of Financial Statistics shows that there has been a fall in liquidity in British industry of about £70 million to £80 million? Is he aware that that will have considerable consequences for the level of industrial investment?

There is no question of complacency. This matter is under continual review. I am well aware of the feelings of industry. I am also aware of the estimates of investment. They are broadly satisfactory.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the limit on lending by the joint stock banks gives certain advantages to other financial institutions? What plan has he for ending that discrepancy?

That is a separate matter. This matter is under continual review and we shall keep it under review again when we get the November returns from the banks. Beyond that I do not think I can answer my hon. Friend more specifically.

asked the Prime Minister if he will invite Herr Brandt to make an official visit to Great Britain.

I have invited the German Chancellor to pay an official visit on a mutually convenient date in the first half of next year and Herr Brandt has accepted.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many hon. Members will be delighted to hear that news? Will he convey to Herr Brandt when he comes here the warmest congratulations of many in the House at least that a Socialist is once more Chancellor of Western Germany? Would the time be appropriate when Herr Brandt visits this country to consider the possibilty of some kind of Anglo-German declaration of friendship, perhaps along the lines of the Franco-German declaration a few years ago?

While Herr Brandt is a very old personal friend of mine, my relations with him are strictly official. What I welcome, and what the whole House, regardless of party, welcomes, is that the Chancellor of Germany is a very good friend of this country, and in our discussions we shall start from that position. I was asked about a declaration. That can be considered at the right time. There was a very important declaration between the previous Chancellor and myself last February about the widening of the. Common Market. If Herr Brandt and I mutually felt that any declaration would help our common purpose, no doubt we could make one.

asked the Prime Minister what plans he now has for an early meeting with President Pompidou.

Although there are no plans at present, I look forward to meeting President Pompidou before too long.

May I express the hope that this meeting will not be further delayed? In view of reports of a change of attitude in France about British entry into the Common Market, does not my right hon. Friend think it now time for frank and full discussions with President Pompidou about the major issues involved?

In this case it is a meeting with a Head of State, not a Head of Government. I think that my hon. Friend will feel, on reflection—as I am sure it is President Pompidou's feeling— that these are matters first for discussion within the Six. President Pompidou and other Heads of State or Heads of Government will be meeting early in December for summit talks. It is right to see how those go before jumping to any premature conclusions.

Does the Prime Minister accept that if he and President Pompidou cannot agree on anything else, at least they have one thing in common: they have both presided over the devaluation of their national currencies?

In view of what he said, I am not sure that the hon. Member's words, which I think are aimed more at me than at President Pompidou, are designed to help relations with France. There are other things in common. Having been Prime Minister for many years, President Pompidou has just received the acclamation of his country for a further period of office.

Will my right hon. Friend take an early opportunity to congratulate both President Pompidou and Herr Brandt on the fact that both France and Germany are devoting more than 1 per cent. of their gross national product to overseas aid? How soon does he expect it to be before he is in a position to receive similar congratulations?

I welcome my right hon. Friend's question, although no one knows the figures as well as he does. He used to supply me with them. He also knows that in the international league table, which I quoted recently, Britain stands very high indeed. I understand that Germany has intimated that she intends to increase her programme by a very substantial percentage. We have nothing to be ashamed of in this country. As for our future programme in relation to the U.N.C.T.A.D. or Pearson 1 per cent., I have already told the House that we expect to be able to make a statement to the House in a very short time.

asked the Prime Minister if he will transfer all responsibility for horticultural import control from the Board of Trade to the Ministry of Agriculture.

No, Sir.

Is the Prime Minister aware that British growers have a fundamental distrust of the Board of Trade and feel that it has frequently betrayed them? Will he take active steps to bring the attention of the Board of Trade to the great import saving which could be achieved by British horticulture?

I think the hon. Gentleman is the only hon. Gentleman ever to have chewed a horticultural product in the House of Commons. Obviously, this matter has had to be considered from time to time. We take the same view as our predecessors did— that control over international trade in this and other products should rest with the Board of Trade, not with the Department concerned with the sponsoring of production in this country. However, the hon. Gentleman, who has made his position very clear, will know how much has been done to help British horticulture.

Will my right hon. Friend assure the House that whoever is responsible for the operation of Government policy in these maters will operate it mainly in the interests of the British consumer?

My right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade has responsibility for the general level of prices and the interests of consumers and a reasonable concern for seeing that British producers get a fair crack of the whip, but not to be protective against others who might produce more efficiently. In this case, horticulture, I think that he holds the balance very fairly.

Is the Prime Minister aware that I am sure that import control should rest with the Board of Trade, so long as the Board of Trade is responsible for overseas trade affairs? However, would he not agree from his own experience that for a long period there has been a problem of the time it takes to implement anti-dumping regulations and that they are often ineffective because the season for the horticultural product is over by the time action is taken? Is he aware that some of us have tried to think of ways in which this difficulty could be overcome? Might we not have a sort of prima facie decision that there is dumping so that action could be taken by the Board of Trade which would then have time to explore the situation and reach a final conclusion? Would not this speed up the whole process and prevent it from being ineffective?

I know that the right hon. Gentleman addressed himself to this matter when he was President of the Board of Trade, as have my right hon. Friends. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman has not fully taken into account the effects of the 1968 Act which empowers the President of the Board of Trade to take provisional anti-dumping action, to take prompt action in the prima facie case when, as the right hon. Gentleman suggest, for seasonal or other reasons it is urgent that action should be taken and then to have the necessary inquiries afterwards. In other words, what the right hon. Gentleman is suggesting we have legislative powers to ensure.

asked the Prime Minister what consultations he has recently held with the Prime Minister of South Africa.

None, Sir.

Would the Prime Minister consider telling the Prime Minister of South Africa of the contempt felt here about the way in which South Africa not only chooses its sporting teams on a colour basis, but tries to dictate to foreign sports teams that this shall be done? In view of this, would he not agree that the M.C.C. should seriously consider cancelling its invitation to the South Africans next year?

I do not think that it would help if I made further comments on this matter. The attitude of most people in this country has been made clear, and it was made clear last year over the d'Oliveira incident when the right hon. Member for Kinross and West Perthshire (Sir Alec Douglas-Home) —I am sorry that he is not present— produced the wrong answer in his diplomatic negotiations; but the House as a whole agreed that it was wrong for us to be told whom we could have in our British national teams. I should not like to comment further, because I know that my hon. Friend is trying to make me comment about the Maoris about which there have been a number of statements —indeed, the latest seems rather better than the earlier statements.

Is it not clear, despite such incidents as the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, that we still retain full use of the naval base at Simonstown?

There has been no change in that position for many years, as the right hon. Gentleman knows.

Will the Prime Minister take up with Pretoria the question of the use of South African police and military personnel in Rhodesia?

This matter has been fully represented, both in informal talks with the regime in Rhodesia—I do not think that it is particularly keen to have these police in Rhodesia—and with the South African Government. Their use is illegal.

Will the Prime Minister take into account the fact that we have a considerable balance of trade with South Africa? Will he also bear in mind that, as a result of two speeches by two junior Ministers recently, a constituent of mine has lost a large order in South Africa which could have resulted in the employment of people in the North-West of England?

I welcome the hon. Gentleman's tribute to the fact that not only have our exports to South Africa substantially increased, but we have a substantial balance of trade with South Africa. For more than five years we heard from hon. Gentlemen opposite the allegation that our decision to adhere to the United Nations resolution, for which right hon. Gentlemen opposite voted, would destroy our ability to maintain trade in non-arms. I am glad to feel that trade has increased so rapidly.

asked the Prime Minister if he will propose legislation to provide for a national referendum on entry into the Common Market once the terms are known.

No, Sir.

But as a form of referendum is already held in Wales and Scotland, should we in England not get used to having referenda, as they are held in the Common Market? Indeed, the present negotiations arose because of a referendum in France. As the Prime Minister has declared that this would be a historic occasion which would lead to a surrender of sovereignty, and as there is no getting out of the Treaty of Rome, is not a referendum the best way in which the public could express its anxieties?

It is contrary to our traditions in this country. Even in 1962, when the hon. Gentleman may well have been a member of the then Government, for reasons which must have seemed good to the then Prime Minister, the then Prime Minister refused a suggestion from his own side for a referendum on the Common Market, even though it had not been an election issue. If the hon. Gentleman feels so strongly about it, I wonder why he did not resign on that occasion.

I was not a member of the Government then.

He joined it shortly afterwards in the light of that reply. It is significant that on 30th January, 1962, the hon. Gentleman who put a Question from the Conservative side referred to referenda on Sunday drinking in Wales and got slapped down by the then Prime Minister for suggesting that it should be done on the Common Market.

As Britain's entry into the Common Market would represent the biggest constitutional step which has been taken since perhaps the Bill of Rights in 1832, or perhaps an even bigger constitutional issue, does not my right hon. Friend think that the people of Great Britain should have an opportunity of expressing their views?

Hon. Members on either side of the House do not usually feel that referenda are a way in which to conduct our public affairs. I am sure that a referendum would give 100 per cent. support for increasing expenditure on every item. It would give 100 per cent. support for abolishing income tax.

What a splendid idea!

That was what I hoped to imply. It is not a way in which we can do business. These are matters on which hon. Members are elected to the House and they have been free to express their opinions, as they were in the debates in the House, and as they will be again when we are offered terms for joining the Common Market.

asked the Prime Minister if he is satisfied with the co-ordination achieved as a result of the reorganisation of Government Departments responsible for problems of regional development; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friends work closely together on these matters.

Will my right hon. Friend ensure that the Government give top priority to helping areas such as North-East Lancashire which have now been singled out for massive Government aid? Welcome though this aid is in North-East Lancashire, we should like to feel that the effects will be felt soon by the population.

My hon. Friend will be aware that the Second Reading of the Local Employment Bill was accepted by the House without a Division and is now being examined in Committee. It is to implement the announcement of my right hon. Friend the then Economic Secretary earlier this year. I think that the whole House will feel that first priority must be given still to development areas, particularly to areas of colliery closures and other areas which are difficult. However, we are now in a position to give more help to the intermediate areas.

Does the Prime Minister realise that the South-West considers that it is absolutely bottom in any thoughts by the Government, both as regards transport and broadcasting? We are being left way behind. What does the Prime Minister intend to do to correct this?

The hon. Gentleman can address questions on transport and broadcasting to the appropriate Ministers responsible. He is totally wrong about what has been done about employment in the South-West, in view of the conferment of development area status for part of the South-West and the recent inclusion of Plymouth in the area to receive help under the intermediate area programme.

rose—

Order. Mr. Stonehouse.