asked the Secretary of State for Wales (1) if he will make a further statement on the effect of a nuclear power station at Connah's Quay on the amenities of the Dee Estuary;

Preliminary engineering studies have established the feasibility of a multi-purpose crossing of the Dee Estuary. Further studies are now in hand to establish the best place for such a crossing. The implications of the possible location of a nuclear power station at Connah's Quay are being taken into account in these studies, and there is close and continuous consultation with the local planning authorities and the river authority.

Would not the building of a nuclear power station wreck the chances of a multi-purpose reclamation scheme so beneficial to the North-West?

At this stage, one could not possibly prejudge the advice which my right hon. Friend may receive from the planning consultants to whom this matter has been referred.

Will the right hon. Lady admit that the first part of her Answer was known to us about three years ago? Were the reasons for the delays in carrying out a feasibility study purely economic?

Not at all. This is a very complex matter. As the hon. Gentleman will appreciate, there are many factors to be taken into account—planning, engineering, water conservation, land reclamation, general social consequences, and, not least, relations between the populations on either side of the river.

In view of the probability that any improvement in transport links across the Dee will lead to a great acceleration of population growth in North-East Wales, would not my right hon. Friend agree that any decisions arising from the Merseyside Land Use and Transportation Study should not be taken until the implications of this scheme also have been considered?

I would not presume to judge what is best for Merseyside. All I am concerned about is that we in North Wales are left alone to make our own decisions.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what special schemes for dealing with water pollution in Wales are planned during 1970.

Out of this year's record level of investment of between £8 million and £9 million in new sewerage and sewage disposal works in Wales, a substantial proportion will be designed to improve the standard of effluent discharged into river courses and estuaries.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what estimate he has made of the amount of derelict land which will be cleared or restored in Wales during 1970; and how this compares with 1969 and 1968.

About 1,000 acres. The comparable figures for 1969 and 1968 are 335 and 329, respectively.

Is not this a somewhat leisurely approach to a serious and difficult problem? Could my right hon. Friend, perhaps, use his influence to accelerate the effort of those who are responsible on the ground for carrying it out?

When England is able to move at the same pace as Wales, it will be time enough for observations of that kind from my hon. Friend. The figures I gave are superlative and splendid, and we are very proud of them.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is the total amount of money spent upon advertising in Y Cymro and Y Faner; and what is the basis upon which his Department allocates advertising.

In 1969, £395 was spent by the Welsh Office on advertisements in Y Cymro and £197 in Y Faner. Welsh language advertisements are inserted in these newspapers when a national coverage is needed or where there is no local Welsh language newspaper.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the publishers of these newspapers greatly appreciate the fact that he strikes a fine balance between partiality and impartiality in granting advertisements to these papers? Though the editors of the papers concerned do not express the appreciation which is due to my right hon. Friend, people in Wales appreciate the support given to these papers.

I am much obliged to my hon. Friend. He is a little mistaken, because I have received from the Editor of Y Faner a very kind and appreciative letter about the part I am playing.

Is the Secretary of State aware that the total amount spent by the Government in the Welsh language is disgracefully small?

I am aware that in the hon. Gentleman's eyes anything we do is wrong.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is the value of road schemes for Wales which are now in the preparation pool.

£78½ million.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that reply. Does he appreciate that there is a fairly widespread feeling that the need in parts of Wales is so great that the Government's objective should be to exceed the figures now contemplated?

Yes, but a very large proportion of the schemes in the preparation pool will be completed by the mid-1970s. Unlike hon. Members opposite, we are not saying that we shall cut public expenditure but still build miles and miles of road.

When we had responsibility for these matters, did we not adopt a different system? We had the rolling system, which was very successful and which this Government have abandoned. What percentage of the amount now in the preparation pool will be completed by the date the hon. Gentleman has mentioned?

I do not know the exact percentage. It is a very large proportion. We shall have about 23 miles of motorway and about 45 miles of dual carriageway completed by the mid-1970s. This is an impressive record. The whole purpose of the preparation pool is to prevent the programme's falling back, which is what happened when the part of the motorway that came into Wales was completed. Our system is better.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many officials in the Welsh Office have full-time responsibility for advising him on agriculture.

None. Under arrangements made following the Transfer of Functions (Wales) Order 1969, I look primarily to the Welsh Secretary of the Ministry of Agriculture at Aberystwyth for advice on agricultural matters in Wales.

Has not this situation become a farce? The right hon. Gentleman, the Home Secretary and the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food all take part in the Price Review. Would it not be much better if he and the Home Secretary, particularly in view of his remarks last week, got out of it and left it to the Minister of Agriculture?

I am surprised at the hon. Gentleman, who is usually very sensible. Welsh agricultural interests are now aware that they have a voice specifically devoted to them and their interests in the negotiations on farm prices. I believe that there would be considerable harm if such an advantage were lost.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many hospitals in Wales are not fully operative owing to shortages of nursing staffs; and what steps he is taking to solve these difficulties.

Almost every hospital could make good use of additional nurses, but there are two, Sully and Morriston where the problem is particularly acute. At Sully, work is to start this year on a creche and improved residential accommodation. At Morriston, where the shortage is of student nurses, the nurse training school is to be amalgamated with that of Singleton Hospital and improvements are to be made to the nurses home.

I appreciate the difficulties faced by Ministers in the Welsh Office and by the hospital board. Does the hon. Lady appreciate that this is a far bigger problem than her reply indicates and that most of the resident physician superintendents and matrons to whom I have spoken consider that the problem is likely to get larger during the years ahead? It is not likely to be solved. Will the hon. Gentleman treat it much more urgently?

Among other things, a very significant addition has been proposed to nurses' pay, which will help with recruitment. The kind of action which I am indicating as being carried out in these two hospitals is a very intelligent way of meeting difficulties which vary greatly from one hospital to another.

What effect is the shortage of nurses having on long-term hospitals dealing with mentally sick?

I cannot give a general answer to that question because the position varies from place to place. If my hon. Friend has a particular hospital in mind, I shall be happy to reply to a question.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is the total establishment of all grades of nursing staff in hospitals administered by the Welsh Hospital Board: and by what percentage the present number of nurses falls short of establishment.

There is no generally accepted basis for determining an establishment for nurses, but the Welsh Hospital Board now employ, in terms of whole-time equivalents, about 13,700 nurses.

About how much is this under strength? We appreciate the problems that this sphere gives to the country at present.

If I am not able to give a precise establishment figure, obviously I cannot say by how much we shall fall short of it. This is a complicated matter. It has been referred to by the Public Accounts Committee. If the hon. Gentleman would care to talk to me about it afterwards, I should be happy to see him.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he will set up a working party to consider the problems caused by straying %animals and to make proposals thereon.

I am considering my hon. Friend's suggestion in consultation with my colleagues concerned.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that this Answer was given to me as long ago as June, 1968? Is not the only solution to the problem, apart from the legislation now going through the House, greater co-operation and co-ordination between the farming community and local authorities?

I am very anxious that there should be such co-ordination, but I thought it better to await reactions following the introduction of the Animals Bill.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will take steps to remedy the hardship caused to householders by liability to make weatherproof the exposed pine ends of their houses on the demolition of adjacent properties.

Where owners demolish properties which leave adjacent houses exposed, local authorities have power, under the Public Health Act, 1961, to serve notices requiring those owners to weatherproof surfaces exposed by the demolition. If properties are demolished by the local authority, they have power to carry out weatherproofing if they think it right to do so. My right hon. Friend will be writing to my hon. Friend, setting out the position in greater detail.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Could not relief of this hardship, which exists not only in Wales but in many other parts of the United Kingdom, be tackled under the provisions of the Housing Act, 1969?

It would be possible to consider the question of a grant under the improvement grant system set up by the 1969 Act if it was part of an improvement scheme. Also, under the 1969 Act, local authorities can make loans to house-owners on terms providing for interest only to be paid, the capital being recovered later. This could help those on very low incomes and those suffering from financial hardship.

Except in extraordinary cases, should not local authorities always make up finance in this way where they are responsible for demolition, otherwise it is a great hardship to the individual?

Local authorities can do this if they demolish the property, but they are not bound by law to do so.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many buildings of outstanding architectural or historic interest in Wales have been awarded grants towards the cost of repairs under the Historic Buildings and Ancient Monuments Act 1953; what is the total value of the grants; how many buildings were awarded grants in 1966–67, 1967–68, 1968–69 and 1969–70; and what were the total amounts of such grants.

95 Buildings have been awarded grants amounting to £590,065 under the 1953 Act. The numbers of buildings awarded grants in 1966–67, 1967–68 and 1968–69 were 18, 11 and 22, respectively, and the amounts £38,563, £17,527 and £64,570. In the current financial year 15 buildings have so far been awarded grants to the value of £27,524.

This is a substantial and welcome increase. In assessing the claims for grants, to what extent are the benefits of tourism taken into account?

We have very wide considerations in reaching these decisions. Those referred to by my hon. Friend are taken into account.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what assistance his Road Safety Unit has given to local high-way authorities since it was formed on 1st April, 1968?

Forty-one separate local accident studies have been or are being carried out with the co-operation of the police and local authorities mainly in South Wales since approximately two-thirds of the accidents in the Principality occur in Glamorgan and Monmouthshire. A report on the causes of fatal road accidents involving children was issued during 1969.

Is not a first-rate example of such work that at Cwmbran in Monmouthshire? What attempt is made to follow up this analysis of the causes of accidents?

It is the job of the Road Safety Unit, in conjunction with local authorities, to offer effective remedies for accidents. As it takes one or two years to see how well they are working out, we have not yet had a follow_up investigation. We intend that there shall be one.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what plans he has to protect the interests of councillors who suffer financial loss as a result of service on local authorities; and if he will make a statement.

Regulations which came into force on 6th February prescribed new maximum amounts for the financial loss allowance to which members of local authorities are entitled in respect of the performance of their duties. For the longer term, we have recently announced that it is intended to work out, in consultation with the local authority bodies, substantial improvements in allowances.

Does my right hon. Friend appreciate that there is a need to attract many more industrial workers, particularly younger ones, into local government service, but that they are deterred from going into local government service by financial penalties? As a custodian of the local government service in Wales, will my right hon. Friend's Department ensure that this situation is remedied?

I have much sympathy with what my hon. Friend says, but I would refer him to paragraph 80 of the recently published White Paper on the Reform of Local Government.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what discussions he has now had with the Registrar-General about the possibility of making provision on census forms for obtaining information about the number of people born in Wales, but living outside Wales, who are Welsh-speaking; and what was the outcome of such discussions.

The possibility has been carefully considered by the Registrar-General; but I understand that he has concluded that it would not be practicable.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many people in Wales will view his Answer as being very unsatisfactory in view of the usefulness of information about Welsh-speaking people in England, particularly in assessing the potential audience for television programmes in the Welsh language which, as my right hon. Friend knows, are transmitted in England?

It would be interesting to have the information to which my hon. Friend refers, but to add further questions to those in the 13 million census forms which will go out on this matter is not justified.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what representations he has had from local authorities on Circular 97/69 regarding surface water run-off; if he is aware of the dangerously increased volume of water carried by streams in the Betws-y-Coed area as a result of Forestry Commission drainage in the vicinity of Elsie Lake; and what steps he proposes to take in the matter.

My right hon. Friend has had representations from one local authority, Betws-y-Coed Urban District Council. He is not aware that the volume of water draining from Forestry Commission land in the area has dangerously increased. My right hon. Friend understands that, after consultation between the Commission, the Conway Valley Water Board, the Urban District Council and local proprietors, the level of the lake during the winter months has been lowered and the main watercourse leading from it has been deepened.

Is my hon. Friend aware that, in the case of Elsie Lake, recent afforestation has led to a considerable number of extra acres falling within the catchment area of streams passing through the village of Betws-y-Coed, with a great deal of resultant damage? Is he not unhappy that the Forestry Commission is not legally responsible for the effect on land owners of drainage schemes which the Commission undertakes?

I understand that cases are to hand, and it would not be proper for me to comment on the matter at present. The Forestry Commission suggests that it is not liable, and that is for the courts to work out.

The Secretary of State is responsible for forestry in Wales. Will he make certain that, wherever possible, both state and private forestry concerns, when doing forestry draining, go in for contour draining, which is what is required?

I will consider that interesting suggestion.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what representations he has received in regard to the proposal to move the Shoeburyness gunnery range to the sand beaches of Carmarthenshire.

I have received about 330 objections from individuals together with representations from over 30 organisations and authorities, including the local planning authority, Carmarthenshire County Council.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the strength and determination of opposition in the area to this project, which could sterilise the area in- dustrially? Is he also aware that this opposition is nowhere found more strongly than among the so-called weaker sex, where the spirit of Gwenllian is now very much alive? Will the Government ride roughshod over the opposition, as they did at Tryweryn?

The hon. Gentleman received from the Ministry of Defence two notices informing him and my right hon. Friend the Member for Llanelly (Mr. James Griffiths) of this proposal. My right hon. Friend the Member for Llanelly has made representations to the Ministry of Defence. The hon. Gentleman has been completely silent; he has made no representations whatsoever to the Ministry of Defence. I can assure the people of Pembrey and district that there is no intention to ride roughshod over anyone. There will be the fullest possible inquiry.

I was glad to hear the Minister's last sentence. Does it mean that he is agreeing personally to the inquiry which he has been asked to instigate by the protesting association?

Arrangements about the form of the inquiry are now under consideration. I can give the assurance that every opportunity will be given for all points of view to be thoroughly aired at the inquiry.

Is the Secretary of State aware that those in and around the Shoeburyness area who have had the doubtful privilege of having this gunnery range in their area for many years are only too pleased to go in for fair shares for all and to let Wales have it for a few years? We are glad to get rid of it.

My hon. Friend has a Welsh name, but that is his only link with us.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will now seek to raise the Welsh language in Wales to a status of equality with English in Wales.

The Government have already raised the legal status of the Welsh language in Wales to that of equality with English.

Is the Secretary of State aware that some people may admire the lion-hearted way in which he has stood up, with nothing more formidable than the British Government behind him, to the great bully the Welsh Language Society and the way in which he is resisting any advance in Wales to national status? Is he also aware that I am not among his admirers?

I feel heartbroken by the hon. Gentleman's last remark. I am well aware that the hon. Gentleman does what he can to stir up members of the Welsh Language Society to indulge in the sort of hooligan exercises which we have recently witnessed. I share the opinion of Lord Justice Arthian Davies that they can do nothing but bring shame and disgrace to Wales.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the implicit misrepresentation about the status of the Welsh language in that supplementary question is typical of the kind of misrepresentation taking place in Wales by people who should be more responsible and which is leading young people who are misrepresented to take unjustifiable and unwise actions?

My hon. Friend speaks for a very wide representation of opinion in the Principality. Major constructive steps have been taken in an endeavour to succour the Welsh language, and no good at all will ensue from the sort of militant action of which the hon. Member for Carmarthen (Mr. Gwynfor Evans) is so proud.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he intends to announce his further proposals for the reform of local government in Wales.

I hope to do so next month.

Mr. Arthur Lewis.

On a point of order I wished to put a supplementary question on Question No. 19, Mr. Speaker.

I know; but no original supplementary question was asked.

asked the Attorney-General why it is taking so long for a decision to be made in connection with the investigation into matters connected with the practice known as cube-cutting; whether prosecutions are under; and whether he will make a statement.

As my hon. Friend is aware, the police investigation into these complicated matters has involved the examination of the circumstances of many hundreds of different transactions and documents involving a large number of companies. Although substantial progress has been made with this investigation, it will be at least three months before the papers can finally be submitted to the Director of Public Prosecutions.

I thank my right hon. and learned Friend for that reply, which was more positive than others I have received. Is he aware that, through going on for so long, some of these cases cause difficulty when they eventually reach the courts, such as the John Bloom case, which I had to raise here for years before action was taken?

I appreciate the difficulties which delay causes, but instant prosecution is not desirable.

asked the Attorney-General if he will institute proceedings against those British subjects who passed secret information to the Polish diplomats recently expelled for inadmissible activities.

Although the Polish officials in question were engaged in inadmissible activities, no evidence has been supplied to me which would justify proceedings under the Official Secrets Acts against the persons approached by those officials. This may be attributed to the timely action of the Security authorities.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman telling the House that the inadmissible activities of those diplomats were merely to approach people who were potential traitors, or people who might have passed them information, or is he saying that nothing has been done to make quite certain that no information was passed to them because they had no access to it themselves?

I am saying that these unauthorised activities were nipped in the bud.

asked the Attorney-General what guidance is given by the Lord Chancellor to magistrates with regard to their actions outside their courts which impinge on the proceedings of other magistrates' courts.

Magistrates should not engage upon such actions. This is or should be well understood and my noble Friend, the Lord Chancellor, does not consider that any general guidance to magistrates on this subject is required.

Is the Attorney-General aware of a recent case in which 21 Welsh magistrates combined publicly to pay a fine imposed by another bench of Welsh magistrates? When magistrates act publicly to nullify penalties imposed by other magistrates, does it not undermine the authority of the courts?

The right hon. Gentleman said that they acted publicly, but the names of those concerned are not known to my noble Friend.

Both today and in his reply last Friday, my right hon. and learned Friend has said that the names of the magistrates concerned in that recent case are not known. In fact, they are now known, as several of these people have confessed; they have come out from underneath their stone. What further action, in the light of this, does my right hon. and learned Friend intend to take?

If my lion. Friend has information to that effect, I shall be very glad to receive it. No one is obliged to accept a judicial appointment, but if he does he must accept it with all that the appointment entails. Those who accept office as magistrates must not become actively involved in controversial matters which may suggest a bias in favour of one section of the community or against another section. They must see that their conduct does not bring the administration of justice into disrepute. I think that I made this clear in answer to an earlier question last week.

If the Attorney-General receives the names of the magistrates, will he ensure that they are passed forthwith to his noble Friend the Lord Chancellor with an expression that action should be taken?

I assure the right hon. and learned Gentleman that the names will be passed on, and that the matter will be considered by my noble Friend.

asked the Attorney-General if he will refer to the Director of Public Prosecutions the offensive literature which was sent, unsolicited, by the Odalesque Press of 70 South Audley Street, London, W.1, to a citizen of Warwick.

This matter has already been referred to the Director of Public Prosecutions who has arranged for it to be investigated.

Could not the Attorney-General use his undoubted influence to bring about action to stop the indiscriminate posting of salacious and highly offensive material to very respectable citizens? Is he aware of the growing anger of the recipients of this material, who regard this as a complete exploitation of the permissive society?

I am very well aware of the anxiety, and action is being taken.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will give a general direction to the Post Office requiring the installation of equipment to give a warning to telephone users to detect that their conversation is being recorded.

No, Sir.

Is my hon. Friend aware that in the United States of America this is standard practice? Therefore, presumably the equipment is not difficult to install. Since there is evidence that there is an increasing recording of telephone conversations without the person at the other end being aware of it, should not we consider introducing this here?

I take my hon. Friend's point, but it was announced on 23rd January that my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary would set up a Committee of Inquiry into the law on personal privacy under the chairmanship of Mr. Kenneth Younger. I think that we should await the findings of that Committee.

What are the criteria which justify detection of this sort, or are we to understand that anybody can be made a victim of this kind of detection? What sort of protection is available to the ordinary person in the street?

All attachments to the telephone require Post Office approval. Without that approval the service can be withdrawn immediately.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will ensure that the price of stamps for the first class and second class post when the decimal currency is introduced comply with the Government's prices and incomes policy.

Yes, Sir.

Does that mean that there will be no increase in the cost of sending a letter on decimalisation, or shall we move to a system of having one standard 5d. stamp for first- and second-class mail, or to a two-tier 5d. second-class and about 7½d. first-class service?

The hon. Gentleman should not jump to any of those conclusions. I am discussing with the Post Office certain proposals that have been put to me. It would be premature for any announcement to be made.

As, consequent on the recent pay awards, the tariff is bound to go up, will the right hon. Gentleman tell us whether this will be at the same time as the changes owing to decimalisation or before?

I would not like to anticipate the results of the consideration I am now giving to the proposals that have been put to me.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will now reduce the levy on independent television companies; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he has yet made a decision on the independent television levy; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications in view of the effect of the levy upon independent television and the smaller programme companies in particular, what steps he now proposes to take to enable the programme companies to find the resources to improve their services and prepare for colour transmissions.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications arising from his consideration of the levy, what steps he is taking to encourage the production of a higher proportion of locally-produced television programmes by independent television contractors.

I have nothing to add to my reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (Mr. Ron Lewis) and to the hon. Member for Belfast, North (Mr. Stratton Mills) on 19th January. —(Vol. 794, c. 21.]

Is the Minister aware that he has now had the Cooper Brothers report for exactly a month? This is an intolerable delay, since the independent television companies face a considerable crisis and there has been a drop in standards. Is it not clear that the Government are much slower to reduce taxation than to increase it?

I do not agree at all that there has been an intolerable delay. It is a very detailed and complex report, and it is very important that my officials and I should have enough time to go into it in detail with the I.T.A. I have already met the Chairman of the I.T.A. to discuss it, and I shall see him again. There is a large number of questions that must be investigated. Nor do I agree that programme standards are being reduced.

Will the Minister make as much haste as possible, because there is a danger that if the decision is left for a long period there will be a deterioration of programme standards or a reduction in staff, because these will be the only ways in which the companies can cover their costs?

I think that the wish of the House would be that we find the right solution to the matter. It is not just a question of the actions of my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The industry has been suffering from a reduction of income and increased costs at the same time.

Will the Minister bear in mind that the present rate of levy will very soon lead to unemployment, and that as each day goes by more and more longterm damage is being done to the industry, particularly to the smaller companies? Will he also bear in mind that the Authority itself is finding that it cannot press on with improved coverage and so on because of a starvation of funds?

I am very well aware of the effect that the general situation has had, but the full blame for this must not he put on the Government Front Bench.

Is the Minister aware that it was last June that he said he would be ready to reconsider the situation if the worst fears of the television companies were realised? Those worst fears have obviously been realised. We are grateful to him for telling us the progress so far, but can the right hon. Gentleman say when the companies are likely to know the decision? Is this a Budget matter, or is it after or before the Budget that we shall know?

It would be unwise for me to anticipate when a decision will be arrived at on the matter until after our consideration and the results of the further inquires we have made to the I.T.A. became known.

In view of the very unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will make a statement on his discussions with the leaders of the unions organising workers in the entertainment industry with regard to the effects of the Government's levy on independent television.

I had discussions with representatives of the E.T.U., A.C.T.T. and Equity on 23rd January and with representatives of the Writers' Guild on 3rd February. I was interested to have their views on the present situation in the industry, which will be taken into account.

Will my right hon. Friend say a little more about the views of these organisations and give an undertaking that he will keep in touch with them about developments?

I am, of course, always pleased to meet representatives of the trade unions involved, and if they desire to see me again at another stage I will consider this request sympathetically.

Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that the trade unions in the industry believe that programme standards have fallen because of the levy?

I would not say that that is a unanimous view; there are more than two views about this. We are anxious to ensure that there is no risk that the programme standards will be reduced. It is yet to be seen that they have been.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what representations he has received from the Post Office Users Council on the reliability of the first-class postal service.

None, Sir.

Is not the Minister concerned about the declining standards of the postal service? Has he seen the survey by Aims of Industry—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—which is fully supported by complaints from my own constituents, to the effect that 10 per cent. of first-class letters go astray and are not delivered on time?

I think the House would be ill-advised to allow the survey of Aims of Industry, which is a political body, to guide it rather than objectivity. I would prefer to advise the House to look at the survey conducted by the Evening Standard, which came to the conclusion that the postal service was doing and is doing a good job.

Is the right hon. Gentleman saying that the survey of Aims of Industry is dishonest?

I am not suggesting that at all, but everybody knows that the Aims of Industry organisation is a political organisation sponsored by supporters of the Conservative Party. It is doing its best to embarrass this great public service by introducing political controversy into it, and that is why I would advise the House to look at some of the other surveys, in particular the Evening Standard survey, before jumping to any conclusions.

This is not good enough. Is the Minister saying that the Aims of Industry survey is dishonest, or is he not saying it?

I am advising the House not to be guided by any particular survey. I am anxious that the House should come to a reasonable conclusion and take into account other objective surveys which have been conducted.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will now authorise a second commercial television channel.

No, Sir.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the Government are considering a second channel for Independent Television? Would he make reference to the simultaneous reports which appeared which suggested that the Government are aiming at giving a second commercial channel to the present contractors without competition? Would he comment on this?

There are various proposals made to me from time to time and, of course, I have to consider them, but it is too soon for any decision to be made on the subject. I think we must digest the proposals which the I.T.A. has made before we move on to the next thing.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications in what respects circumstances have changed since 7th March, 1968, so as to enable him to authorise the use of medium-wave frequencies for local radio, in view of the Ministerial conclusion reached at that time that such use was impracticable.

The B.B.C. is to stop broadcasting the English Regional versions on Radio 4. Frequencies now used for this purpose can then be redeployed to provide a supporting service for local radio stations.

Is the right hon. Gentleman first of all saying that, therefore, the statement by his predecessor on 7th March, 1968, when he said that

"the use of medium wavelengths …is not On"—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 7th March, 1968; Vol. 760, c. 641.]

was incorrect? Secondly, is he saying that his own speech on 15th March last was wrong, when he must have had some idea of what the programme was to be with the B.B.C. but he poured scorn on the use of medium-waves? Was he wrong then?

I think the statement by my right hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Central (Mr. Edward Short), and mine of last year, were quite correct. The position is that the number of medium frequencies required by the B.B.C. for its regional programmes has been reduced, and it is these medium frequencies it is now going to use in the extension of its service. There is no question of the original statements being incorrect.

Would the Minister say to what extent this redeployment of medium-wave frequencies requires the consent of the European Telecommunications Convention or whatever it calls itself? In making representations to that body will he consult the Frequency Advisory Committee first?

We do not have to invite approval as these frequencies are already assigned for United Kingdom use.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if, in the light of his approval of the use of medium wave for British Broadcasting Corporation local broadcasting, there is any technical reason for refusing other broadcasting stations on medium wave.

The use of medium frequencies at the B.B.C.'s local radio stations does not preclude the use of medium frequencies at other broadcasting stations. I am considering how the B.B.C. can best employ them.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that all the Answers which he has given me only result in confusion about the use of medium-wave bands? Is he aware that there are already 12 stations broadcasting different programmes on 202 metres, yet apparently one station does not interfere with another? This does not seem to be consistent with his replies to me earlier that we cannot operate more than one station on a particular wave-band.

I did not say that. What I said was that if we continued to use medium-wave frequencies during the hours of darkness there would be severe interference not only with our own stations but also with those elsewhere in Europe.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if the members of the local broadcasting councils will be appointed in a representative capacity.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what arrangements he proposes to make for a local broadcasting council to have access to him in the event of a dispute with the British Broadcasting Corporation on the management of the local broadcasting service.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what steps he is taking to ensure the independence of the local radio councils in each of the towns where local broadcasting is to take place under the ægis of the British Broadcasting Corporation.

I am appointing council members not as representatives of any particular organisation but for the individual contribution they can make to the work of the councils. To ensure the independence of the councils they will have access to me as a final resort on matters of principle.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that his Answer to that Question, particularly the latter part, will be very much welcomed, because it is important that these local councils shah represent as wide a range of views and opinion, and represent as many sections of society, as possible?

I am grateful for that expression of view. We are very anxious that the local councils should be able to play a very fruitful, useful and energetic part in the development of this service.

While welcoming my right hon. Friend's answer, may I ask whether he can also assure us that there will be complete independence in the administrative functions of the station managers?

The day-to-day operations will, of course, be the responsibility of the B.B.C., and there is no intention that the councils should attempt to do this job.

Can the Minister say, following his letter to me, and, I think to various other hon. Members, exactly what functions the councils will have and what their powers will be? Because these are the questions being asked by people who may possibly serve on this type of council, and we must know how he envisages the councils will work. It is very important to know this before one can recommend suitable names.

I envisage that a council would meet at least four times a year, but the way in which it arranges its business will be for the council to decide. It will have a very lively part to play in assisting the B.B.C. staff in the way the programmes are presented, and ensuring that there is close contact with the community it serves.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications when he expects local broadcasting services to be established in Bristol.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications when he expects the local broadcasting service to be established in Southampton.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications when he expects local radio to open in Manchester; and what area it will cover.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications when the local broadcasting service will be established in Blackburn.

All these stations will open in the latter half of this year. The B.B.C. has not yet decided the opening dates nor the precise areas to be served.

Would my right hon. Friend say whether the staffing needs will be met from the present staff or will extra staff be taken on at Bristol? Or will he write to me and give me more information about the technical aspects of this?

Yes, I can write to my hon. Friend, and, indeed, the B.B.C. will take note of what he has said this afternoon, but the B.B.C. is making sure that staff and equipment are ready, and it also wants to take into account certain local factors before the starting dates for the stations. This will take some time yet.

While welcoming my hon. Friend's statement, having regard to the betrayal of those who wanted Manchester to have the first public service local broadcasting stations, may I ask my hon. Friend whether he can at least assure me that those who serve on the Council will at least believe in local public service broadcasting?

Yes, I hope so. That is the intention of the local council.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will issue a general direction to the Post Office to speed up the development of Subscriber trunk dialling.

No. The development of subscriber trunk dialling is very satisfactory; it is now available to 61 million subscribers.

While accepting that progress has been pretty satisfactory over the last few years, may I ask my right hon. Friend whether he can say that this programme is gathering momentum, or whether he thinks it is carrying on at the same level of progress as in the last few years?

The Post Office tells me that it is proposing to extend the S.T.D. service so that some 86 per cent. of subscribers will be able to use it by the end of this year. So the momentum is going on, and there is no doubt that, increasingly, business subscribers, and subscribers generally, appreciate it.

Is the Minister aware that only very unsatisfactory progress is being made in Derbyshire, and that I have made representations to him about the Parwich exchange which is still in the old-fashioned style? Can he give me any idea when it will be converted to S.T.D., and the hope that it will be soon?

I cannot say off the cuff whether this one is being converted this year, but I will make inquiries and ask the Post Office to let the hon. Member know.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will give a general direction that no increase in charges proposed by the Post Office consequent on the current pay claim shall be made without consultation with him.

No, Sir; the Post Office is already consulting me fully. It has, moreover, a statutory duty to refer any major proposal of this kind to the Post Office Users' National Council, which can report to me if it wishes.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the recent pay settlement will put the Post Office in debt to about £30 million in a year? Secondly, will he tell us for how long he is willing to let the Post Office get into debt?

As I said in answer to an earlier Question, I am now considering with the Post Office the consequences of the recent pay awards, but I am not yet in a position to make any announcement about this consideration.

The figure of £30 million is right?

The right hon. Gentleman, in answer to an earlier Question, said that he was not yet in a position to make a definite statement about an adjustment in charges consequent upon the introduction of decimal currency next year. Is he at least able to say, in the light of the recent pay award, whether, in particular, the 4d. and 5d. letter charges will go up or down?

As I said, I am not yet in a position to do so. I think it would be unwise for me at this stage, when I am consulting the Post Office about certain proposals that have been made, to me to make any statement.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will give a general direction to the Post Office to increase the development of International Subscriber Dialling.

This is a matter for the Post Office in collaboration with overseas administrations and companies, but I think the Post Office is to be congratulated on the current improvements in International Subscriber Dialling.

I congratulate my hon. Friend on continuing the progressive work of the Labour Government in developing the Post Office and enabling it to be one of the foremost Post Office services in the world.

I am grateful for that observation. There is no doubt that I.S.D. is helping business very considerably in ensuring quick communications with firms abroad.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will give a general direction to the Post Office Board to improve the delivery of first-and second-class mail between Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

No, Sir.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary reconsider this and use his good offices to see if some improvement can be made in the postal service across the Irish Sea, which has been deteriorating to the point where second-class mail takes three or four days and first-class mail two or more days?

I am advised that second-class mail is being flown to Northern Ireland, as well as first-class mail. The Post Office informs me that there have been no particular difficulties about Great Britain-Northern Ireland mail except that, as in other places, the 'flu epidemic had a passing effect.

asked the Minister for the Civil Service what steps he will take to protect the value of rights preserved in statutory occupational pension schemes.

Preserved pensions are increased under the Pensions (Increase) Acts in line with the increases payable on pensions already in payment.

Is it intended that the pensions should increase in accordance with the earnings index or the cost of living index?

There is a review going on at the present time. I think we should wait until it has been completed.

asked the Minister for the Civil Service if he will make a statement of his intentions in regard to post-retirement increases in annuities payable under statutory occupational pension schemes.

Future arrangements for increasing public service and Armed Forces pensions are still under examination and the Government are not yet ready to make a statement of their intentions.

Will the question not arise also in regard to Civil Service pensions? Will the Government not be more specific?

I am sure that the Government will be only too pleased to be specific when these matters, which are complex, have been studied thoroughly.

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether he will make a statement on his policy on the proposal of the Maud Commission to abolish Lancashire.

Where is the Chancellor of the Duchy?

On a point of order. May I inquire whether the Chancellor has already abolished himself?

I would express my apologies to you, Mr. Speaker, and to the House for having failed to be in my place when this Question was originally asked.

I have no policy other than the policy of Her Majesty's Government. My responsibility is for the Duchy of Lancaster.

But would not my right hon. Friend not agree that he has very special responsibilities to this ancient county palatine? Before he is prepared to see a thousand years of history disappeal into SELNEC or some other outlandish name, can he not possibly find some way to ensure that the name will survive?