asked the Minister of Overseas Development if she will publish a White Paper on the proceedings of the Conference on Overseas Aid which she attended in the United States of America in February, 1970.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether she will make a statement on the Conference on Overseas Aid which she recently attended in the United States of America.

While in the United States, I attended a Conference on International Aid organised by Columbia University, and another by the Overseas Development Council in Washington. It would not be apropriate for me as a participant to publish a separate account of these, but I will place in the Library of the House, when they become available, copies of a summary being prepared of the Washington conference and of papers to be published on the Columbia meeting. I have already placed there a copy of my own speech at the Washington Conference, which opened the proceedings there.

I thank my right hon. Friend for her helpful reply. Will she tell the House whether, in the course of the conference, there was serious discussion of the use of special drawing rights to provide development aid to poorer countries, particularly in connection with the replenishment of the I.D.A.?

There is, as I think my hon. Friend knows, a later Question on the Order Paper about the replenishment of the I.D.A. In answer to the first part of his supplementary question, there was no such discussion at any sessions at which I was present, but the Columbia University Conference broke up into several separate panels, in one of which, I think, questions about S.D.R.s and trade were discussed.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, having read transcripts of the speeches which she made at these conferences in the United States, I am convinced that they merit a wider audience?

I am most grateful to my right hon. Friend. The difficulty about our proceedings in the House is that much of what one says is not said to the House.

I had the pleasure not only of being at the New York conference but also of hearing the right hon. Lady's speech. Will she consider including in what she puts in the Library the summary made for us in New York of what was discussed at the previous conference at Williamsburg, Virginia?

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that the Williamsburg Conference which preceded the one which he and I attended was very interesting. I am not sure which papers will be available for publication, but to the extent that papers are available I will certainly do what I can.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether she will adjust foreign aid downwards to those countries which carry out discriminatory practices against holders of British passports.

No, Sir. These are quite separate elements in the complex of our overseas relationships and cannot be automatically linked.

That is an extraordinary reply, since the Home Secretary recently said that the Government would have to look at aid to countries which are making difficulties for us by forcing people to come to this country without entry permits, and the British taxpayers—

Order. The hon. Member must put a question.

Is the Minister aware that the people of this country are getting fed up with having to pay out aid to countries which are adding to our difficulties?

The primary purpose of aid funds is to assist the development of countries overseas. It would be extremely harmful, both to the British suppliers who benefit under such aid programmes and to the British people providing technical assistance in developing countries, if we switched aid on and off like a tap.

While dissociating myself from the more tendentious aspects of the hon. Gentleman's Question, may I ask my hon. Friend whether he agrees that the behaviour of some East African countries should not be regarded as enhancing their chance of receiving aid?

All relevant considerations are taken into account in deciding aid programmes, but the internal policies of independent countries overseas are matters for them.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether her Department will be represented in the British delegation to the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development special committee on preferences scheduled to convene on 31st March.

No, Sir, but my Department, like others, will be consulted when the delegation's instructions are prepared.

Does my hon. Friend agree that discussion on the generalised system of non-reciprocal preferences is of fundamental importance in the context of the aid given by rich countries to poorer countries? Is he satisfied that there is adequate consultation between his Department and the Board of Trade, or any other Government Department, on this point?

The two Departments work very closely together. I assure my hon. Friend that the importance of trade policy in relation to development is fully accepted and supported by the Government. The Government have always strongly supported the idea of tariff preferences for developing countries.

Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that a number of us feel that preferences for developing countries should not be so generalised as to remove the special first preference which ought to protect developing countries of the Commonwealth?

That, too, is taken into account.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development why, when her department publishes the net total of foreign aid, such totals exclude interest repayments by receiving countries.

The international standards of performance laid down at the Second U.N.C.T.A.D. Conference in respect of financial resource flows to developing countries takes no account of interest payments, but details of these have been given to the House.

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, would she not agree that on 22nd January, in reply to a question tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hallam (Mr. J. H. Osborn), she failed to take into account, when giving net aid figures, inflows by way of repayment of interest? Will she take to heart the comments of the 1967–68 Estimates Committee that her Department should give more accurate and accessible information as to the true cost of the annual aid programme?

The difficulty that arises is that the House of Commons asks for one set of information and international conferences ask for another. We have to give the figure in two forms. On a number of occasions in the last few months both I and my predecessors have made quite clear the amount of interest repayment, but in the calculations for U.N.C.T.A.D. we were not asked to do so, and indeed were specifically asked not to do so.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development, whether she is planning further aid to Ghana, in view of the burden of debt inherited by the Ghana Government.

When my right hon. Friend met the Prime Minister of Ghana, Dr. Busia, last October, she informed him that our interest-free loan aid in the financial year 1970–71 would be not less than £4·25 million.

But since Great Britain is the biggest creditor of Ghana, in any discussion on the re-scheduling of Ghana's national debt will Her Majesty's Government be as sympathetic as possible with the new democratic Government of Ghana who are faced with unemployment and other difficulties not of their own creation?

We are, of course, acutely aware of the problems of the new Government in Ghana and are considering whether we should have a meeting with other creditor Governments this year to co-ordinate what can be done about their debt problem.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what specific action she has taken to secure the comments and advice of British experts and administrators in the field on Government policy towards the Pearson and Jackson Reports; and whether she will now publish a Green Paper on the future of the British aid programme.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether she will publish a Green Paper on the future of the British Aid Programme.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether she will publish a Green Paper on the Pearson Report and its effect on Government policy.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development by what stages and in what form she proposes to announce Government policy on the recommendations contained in the Pearson and Jackson Reports.

I am considering publishing a White Paper during this Session which will take account of these points, although international discussion on many aspects of both the Pearson and Jackson Reports will continue for some time. In determining our approach on the recommendations of both Reports, there has of course been a wide measure of consultation with our posts overseas, which have been able to reflect views in the field.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that many will receive that Answer with great joy since is suggests that in the light of those two Reports we shall now be able to have an intelligent and constructive debate on the future aid programme?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I am sure that it would be wise to set out some of the considerations affecting the aid programme in the light of those Reports for the benefit of the House.

In joining in the tribute to my right hon. Friend, I hope that the interest in these reports that is being shown in my constituency will be matched throughout the country. In preparing her White Paper, does she not agree that the objective of her Department will be assisted if there is a wider knowledge of the problems involved and of what is being done to solve them?

I am sure that this is so. There has been a great interest in aid, primarily as a result of the efforts of the Church and the aid lobby, but there are still a whole lot of problems which need explanation.

May I ask my right hon. Friend to ensure that the White Paper deals specifically with the main recommendations of both the Pearson and Jackson Reports, remembering that those Reports rightly have raised expectations throughout the world about the momentum towards development? If this momentum is to be kept up, could the donors not spell out what changes are to take place in policy to meet the recommendations?

I hope that in the White Paper we shall be able to cover a number of the main recommendations of Pearson and Jackson. These add up to a large number of recommendations, some of which will still be matters for international discussion.

I am sure the whole House will be grateful to the right hon. Lady for agreeing to give us much more information about aid policy than we have at the moment. Would she not agree, however, that there is something to be said for not rushing into new declarations of aid policy until the Select Committee on Overseas Aid has reported? Is she not aware that the Committee has been taking a great deal of evidence and will be making recommendations in its report?

Yes, I am very much aware of how intensely the Select Committee is carrying out its work on this matter. Clearly I shall wish to discuss with the Chairman of the Select Committee the timing of that report and of my own White Paper.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what is the policy of the British Government towards the Pearson target of 1,000 million dollars a year by 1972 for the third replenishment of the International Development Association, which has been accepted by the United States Government and several other countries; and whether this figure has yet been finally agreed.

At the meeting in London on 9th and 10th March, the British delegation expressed our readiness to meet our share of a replenishment of up to 1,000 million dollars a year for the three years beginning 1st July, 1971. I am glad to say that this initiative of ours was supported by the U.S. and several other delegations. Further international discussions will, however, be taking place and I do not expect either the amount or the manner of the replenishment to be finally settled before the middle of the year.

I welcome that reply. What assurance can my right hon. Friend give that the Governments involved will speedily ratify the replenishments, so that there will not be the sort of delay that there was in putting the second replenishment into effect, which had such a bad effect on I.D.A. loans in 1968?

The lesson was learned from that, I believe, and those countries which needed specific legislation have now made provision to carry it through speedily.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development if she will make a further statement on the suspension of aid to Lesotho.

No payments for budgetary or development aid have been made since 27th January this year and no new commitments are being made at present.

Does the right hon. Lady realise that there will be a discontinuance of major development schemes as from 1st April. Surely all criteria for recognition have by now been considered. Why have the Government followed this strong line, which has been followed by no other Western country?

We are keeping a thorough watch on the situation in Lesotho and in our judgment the point has not arrived when we regard it as sufficiently clarified.

Is it correct that our High Commissioner in Lesotho has been instructed not to have any form of communication with the Government of that country? If so, is that not entirely without precedent, and is it not incredibly stupid if the object of our policy is to encourage that Government to return to normalcy? How can the suspension of aid to Lesotho be reconciled with the statement by the Parliamentary Secretary a short time ago that aid should not be turned on and off like a tap for political reasons?

We are concerned here with a problem of recognition following a General Election in Lesotho. The first part of the Question, relating to the High Commissioner, is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary. But in general terms it is not a question of turning aid on and off like a tap. It is a question of recognition of a Government about which there is a great deal of confusion at the moment.

On a point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Answer, I give notice that I shall seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development if she will make a further statement on the suspension of aid to Malta.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether she has concluded her negotiations on aid with the Government of Malta.

Negotiations are not yet concluded. I cannot therefore yet make a statement, but I shall do so as soon as possible.

Is the right hon. Lady aware that this means that aid has now been suspended to Malta for more than a year? Is this not unparalleled action to take against a friendly Commonwealth country? Is it not beginning to lead to interference in the internal affairs of Malta?

I hardly think so. In fact, the development of Malta has not been held up, because it has been financed by short-term borrowing. We hope that we can reach agreement with the Malta Government. We believe that we have made every reasonable endeavour to do so, and I shall make a statement as soon as I can.

Is this not a great reflection on the competence of Her Majesty's Government? I have been engaged in such negotiations and they have never taken a year to complete on a matter of relatively minor financial importance to the United Kingdom. If the right hon. Lady cannot give the whole of what Malta wants, would she direct her mind to a compromise solution to complete this matter quickly?

Any fair-minded person would be bound to recognise that we have made the maximum effort over a period to reach agreement with Malta. We have not yet succeeded in doing so. We shall go on trying. Until we do, it is best that I do not go into great detail about the whole matter.

In view of the very unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I wish to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development if she will now resume aid to Tanzania.

I am very ready to discuss with the Tanzania Government the resumption of aid.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that that is a most welcome reply? Can she give any idea when the full programme of aid will be resumed to a country which is pioneering independence and self-help and is a beacon of independence among so much repression in South Africa.

I hope soon. I have had one or two informal discussions about this matter. The Tanzanian Government will now wish to consider which part they would like British aid to play in their development plans, and we shall be ready to receive their view when they have arrived at it.

If it is right to consider resuming aid to Tanzania, where there are terrorist camps and a cruel dictatorship in Zanzibar, why is it right to withhold it from Lesotho and to discriminate against that friendly Commonwealth country on what clearly are political grounds?

As I have said already, the question affecting Lesotho is one of whether we feel it right at this stage to recognise a Government in a situation which is far from clear. The situation about Tanzania is that we are delighted to be able to get back to aid to that country because, in developmental terms, it is one of the best countries in Africa. For the rest, I must leave the hon. Gentleman to make his own political judgment.

If the situation in Lesotho is far from clear, what sense is there in instructing the High Commissioner to have no formal communication with the Government there?

That is a question for my right hon. Friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary, as the hon. Gentleman knows. He must surely be aware that communications between high commissioners or ambassadors and Governments is linked with the question of the recognition of the Governments with whom they are communicating.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's replies, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter again.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what consultations she has had with British societies and other institutions to respond to the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation's request for assistance in preventing Venice from sinking into her lagoon.

We shall shortly be bringing the UNESCO documents, which deal also with Florence, to the notice of appropriate British institutions and inviting them to consider whether there is anything they can do to help. Copies of the documents are being placed in the Library of the House.

Will not the hon. Gentleman agree that example is much more impressive than precept? In view of our improved balance of payments, cannot the Government set an example by making an initial donation of £250,000 to this project with a view to encouraging the others?

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that Venice is a wonderful and unique place. One should also bear in mind that Italy is not the poorest country in the world.

Having no desire to see Venice sink into the Lagoon, may I ask whether my hon. Friend will confirm that, if such a payment were made, it would not fall on the aid programme?

At present there is no question of a capital payment being made by the British Government. We should be glad to consider whether we could help with specialist advice or assistance.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development how much aid is to be given to Kenya and Uganda in 1970.

During the calendar year 1970 it is estimated that £7 million of capital loan aid and £3·2 million of technical assistance will be provided for Kenya, and £2·5 million of capital loan aid and £2·3 million of technical assistance for Uganda.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Home Secretary said the other day that countries such as Kenya and Uganda would do better for aid if they would treat Asians who hold British passports a good deal better? In view of that, will the hon. Gentleman agree to look at this matter on the basis of negotiating with the two countries to see whether we cannot come to some arrangement whereby we are not embarrassed and at the same time pay out these sums of money?

The figures for 1970 have already been determined.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development if she will now announce the result of the review of the allowances payable under the Overseas Service Aid Scheme Agreement with Fiji.

I hope to announce this shortly. An officer of my Department visited Fiji two weeks ago to explain the results of the review to staff representatives and to hear their comments. I am glad to say that only one or two points remain to be settled.

The hon. Gentleman will recall that, on 13th November, he promised to announce the result shortly. I hope that it will he announced in the near future.

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's keen interest in this matter, and I hope that he will agree that it was right to have the first-hand reactions of the officers concerned. I assure him that the House will be informed at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what consideration she has given to the petition dated 23rd December, 1969, submitted to her by the Designated Permanent and Pensionable Officers' Association, Gilbert and Ellice Islands Colony; and if she will make a statement.

The association's letter of 23rd December was considered in connection with the recent review of inducement allowances in this Territory and was discussed on the spot last month between association representatives and an officer from my Department. The association are now aware of the increases I am proposing in inducement allowances. Their representations on one or two secondary matters still require consideration, following which a reply will be sent.

As this is another matter which is taking a very long time, will the hon. Gentleman say whether he will make the award retrospective?

Yes. I am glad to say that the new rates will operate with effect from 1st July of last year.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether she will make a statement on the future size of the aid programme, in the light of her future policy towards payment of pensions of former colonial officers.

No, Sir.

Will my right hon. Friend recognise that, while many of us are full of admiration for her success in persuading the Treasury to rationalise its procedure on pensions, we are not convinced by her argument that these payments should come under the present aid ceiling, especially as they will not affect payments across the exchanges and will have a minimal effect on the balance of payments?

My hon. Friend is wrong about the latter point. We shall be paying for the pensions by grants which will materially assist the foreign exchange problems of the countries to whom we are making the grants. I have stressed before that, in my view, the pensioners who will benefit from this are people who, in the main, did an essentially developmental job in pre-independence days—[Interruption.] If Mr. Speaker will bear with me, I will give a figure. Between 1946 and 1950, which was a period of rapid expansion of the Colonial Service in pre-independence days, some 90 per cent. of Colonial Service appointments were in education, law, medicine, agriculture, forestry, and other branches. Those were developmental jobs.

Will the right hon. Lady recognise that none of us disputes that these civil servants did work towards development in decades gone by? We are concerned that their pensions should not be paid out of the current overseas aid programme.

There will be no question of a £ for £ adjustment in terms of the aid programme for the countries concerned. However, since aid is concerned with development, past development is a logical consideration to take into account in present aid programmes.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether she will give an assurance that the Colonial Service pensioners, for whose pensions her Department will shortly take responsibility, will not thereby be worse off by reason of the incidence of income tax, devaluation or any other factor.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether she will ensure that overseas service pensioners living in countries which did not devalue their currencies when the £ sterling was devalued, and those now living abroad and not subject to British income tax, will not be made worse off by Her Majesty's Government's decision to take over the payment of certain expatriate pensions; and whether widow's pensions will also be covered by her decision.

No pensioner would be worse off as a result of the arrangements proposed in my right hon. Friend's statement of 11th March, under which Her Majesty's Government are ready to consider reimbursing overseas governments for the cost of expatriate pensions. Legislation will be necessary before the Government can begin to pay individual pensioners, and I can assure the House that we shall have full regard to pensioners' interests. Responsibility for widows' and orphans' pensions is a subject which we would hope to discuss with the Governments concerned.

Since the Question contained a double negative and has been answered by a partial affirmative, could the hon. Gentleman be a little more categorical? Can he assure us that, the month after this arrangement comes into force, no pensioner concerned will receive less money than he received the month before?

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the assurance which my right hon. Friend gave when she made the statement.

Since this decision is very welcome to many of us on this side who have been pressing the Government for a long time to take this action, will the hon. Gentleman confirm—I am not clear from his reply that he has done so—that the widows, too, will not suffer?

That is prefectly correct. It would, of course, be logical for the British Government to assume responsibility for the widows as and when we assume responsibility for the officers' pensions. Some of the schemes are, of course, already funded, and that matter will also have to be looked into.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development how many British doctors have volunteered to help in medical relief work in Nigeria; and how many have been accepted by the Nigerian Federal Government, to the latest convenient date.

My Ministry received 83 offers from British doctors to serve in Nigeria. At the request of the Nigerian authorities, 15 British doctors were sent to Nigeria between 18th and 27th January to assist in relief work. No further requests for this purpose have been received, but the possibility of our providing further British doctors and other medical staff for hospitals outside the East Central State is currently under discussion with the Nigerian authorities.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, according to the relief agen- cies, no fewer than 500 British doctors volunteered and only 20 were accepted? I understand that the need is still great. Will she ask General Gowon to utilise more British doctors?

Throughout the Nigerian relief operation, it has been a matter of our making ourselves ready to respond to whatever request General Gowon made. In considering the need for medical staff in Nigeria, one has to bear in mind that in the last couple of months there has been a dramatic return of Ibo doctors to their medical work in the areas most affected. No doubt that has had a marked effect on the demands from other countries which General Gowon wished to express.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether she is satisfied that aid to the war-stricken areas of Nigeria has been received in the most needy areas and what further aid she proposes.

Yes, Sir. I am satisfied that British aid for relief and rehabilitation is being used for these purposes and in the area for which it was intended. Further requests for relief and rehabilitation aid have very recently been received from the Nigerian authorities and are under discussion. I should like to take this opportunity of informing the House that as from the beginning of April, my Ministry will become responsible for relief as well as rehabilitation and reconstruction aid to Nigeria.

As there are sharply conflicting accounts of the situation, will my right hon. Friend ask the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary to request the Federal Government to remove their ban on independent newspaper journalists in the area?

This has to be a matter for the Nigerian authorities. I can assure my hon. Friend that all the reports that I have had—and he has probably seen one or two recent reports in The Times and The Guardian from Sir William Pike and the Rev. Hugh Thomas—indicate that the position is a good deal better than some alarmist reports have suggested.

Is the right hon. Lady aware that those of us who had the privilege of going into the enclave and the distressed war areas know that matters are good and well attended to by the Nigerian Red Cross and that there is no cause for alarm or complaint? Is it not about time that we in this House ceased to criticise the Nigerian Government for the aid which they are giving to the distressed areas which, at present, they are doing extremely well?

I am very glad to hear what the hon. Member says. Anxieties are understandable, of course. I agree that the reliable reports we have are enough to convince us that things are going as well as we should hope.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what studies are being carried out in her Department of the effects of possible British entry into the European Economic Community upon developing countries in the Commonwealth.

My staff have this under examination so far as is possible at this stage.

Will my hon. Friend's Ministry play a major rôle in the preparatory work for the negotiations? Would he bear in mind that this is desirable, in order that the specific interests of developing countries in the Commonwealth are studied in depth in sufficient time to influence the course of negotiations?

These considerations, including, in particular, the suitable long-term arrangements for Commonwealth sugar producers, are very much in the forefront of our planning.

Will the Minister or her hon. Friend be in attendance in Brussels with the Chancellor of the Duchy when matters affecting developing members of the Commonwealth are discussed? Who specifically will be responsible for putting the case of the sugar islands of Mauritius, Fiji and the West Indies?

All these factors are taken into account by Her Majesty's Government's representatives who will be concerned with the negotiations.

If studies are now being carried out, does that not suggest that no decision has been reached yet on this very important aspect of the problem? Would my hon. Friend convey the fact that there is no decision yet to his noble Friend, Lord Chalfont, in the other place, who yesterday indulged in a load of rubbish and, by implication, criticised some hon. Members in this House?

I regret that I did not hear that debate, but I will read it with considerable care and interest.

On a point of order. I give you notice, Mr. Speaker, that, at the end of Questions, I shall raise a point of order with you on this matter.

Since the lion's share of British aid goes to developing countries in the Commonwealth, who also receive substantial help through the medium of commodity agreements, is there not a strong case for publishing these studies for the benefit of hon. Members?

There are, of course, many unquantifiable factors still involved, but the House will already be aware of the assurance by my right hon. Friend the Member for Belper (Mr. George Brown) that we shall be concerned to ensure association under Part Four of the Treaty of Rome for our dependent territories and association under the Yaounde Convention for the Commonwealth developing countries as well.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development whether she will make a statement about ecological and geological surveys now being made of the Falkland Islands and dependencies.

There is not an ecological survey, as such, now being made. The Agricultural Advisory team which went to the Falkland Islands at the end of last year included specialists in both pasture and grasslands, and they have based their research into all aspects of animal nutrition and production on work carried out by the Directorate of Overseas Surveys.

As regards geological work, my Ministry is financing the production by Birmingham University of a new geological map of the Islands, and Her Majesty's Government have also decided to carry out an investigation of the available information of the oil-bearing potential of the sea areas around the Falkland Islands.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that reply and take it as an earnest of the Government's intention to carry on administering and developing this British Territory as a British Territory.

My right hon. Friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary has already assured the House on this count.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development what progress has been made with the rebuilding of the hospital in Tonga; and if all the mental patients have been transferred from the prison.

The re-building of the main hospital is expected to be completed by September-October this year. The mental patients have not yet been transferred from the prison, but I understand that the Tonga Government intend to build a psychiatric ward at the hospital during the second phase of its development within the next three years.

In view of the fact that it was agreed to help Tonga with this money to rebuild the hospital, and that one of the conditions, I understand, was that the mental patients should be taken out, will the hon. Gentleman insist that that is now done?

I recognise the hon. Lady's keen and long-term interest in this problem, which is very welcome. The Tonga Government are, of course, fully responsible for their internal problems, but we shall be glad to give them any expert advice which would be helpful.

asked the Minister of Overseas Development how much money her Department is contributing to the new capital for British Honduras; and when this town will be ready to be the major city of that country.

We are providing £4,932,000 for the first phase of the building of the new capital. The hand-over of the buildings by the contractors to the British Honduras Government is due to begin in May this year.

I thank the Minister for that Answer. Will the first phase of this town be ready for the independence of this Territory?

I suppose so. We cannot be quite clear about that, but the important fact is that the first phase is now so near completion, and that is pretty satisfactory.

Would my right hon. Friend not agree that this might prove a suitable opportunity of speeding up our examination of the sugar agreement upon which British Honduras depends so much, at the same time as the new capital is being prepared?

It sounds an admirable proposition, but we should need a rather different range of technical advice for the second point as compared with the first.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment and Productivity if she will make a statement on the current employment situation in Caithness and Sutherland with particular reference to the age and sex distribution of the unemployed.

On 9th March, 1970, there was a total of 1,400 persons—1,051 males, 349 females—registered as unemployed at the Thurso and Wick Employment Exchanges, including 131 temporarily stopped, and the unemployment rate was 10·6 per cent. These figures are provisional.

Details of the age and sex distribution of those registered as wholly unemployed at the Thurso and Wick Employment Exchanges on 12th January, 1970, the latest date for which figures are available, are given in a table which, with permission, I will circulate in the OFFFICIAL REPORT.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. Would he accept that these are unacceptably high figures of unemployment? Would he pay particular attention to the position of school-leavers in' this area and to the need to provide them with work in the manufacturing industries?

I agree with my hon. Friend that these figures are too high. This is the reason, of course, for the work of the Highlands and Islands Development Board and development area assistance. I will bear in mind his point about school-leavers.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment and Productivity if she will state the numbers of those employed in agriculture, fishing and forestry in Caithness and Sutherland in each of the last 10 years.

As the reply consists of a table of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

If, as I suspect, those figures show a marked decline in employment in these sectors, can my right hon. Friend give an assurance that he will resist any demands, from the Opposition particularly, to remove the regional employment premium, which is so important in strengthening the manufacturing sector in this area? Would he further assure us that the Government will not remove any of the present investment incentives or grants which are operative in this area? Great uncertainty has been created by the statements of hon. Members opposite about that.

As my hon. Friend suspects, the figures show a considerable reduce- tion in employment in these areas. It is the Government's intention to maintain investment incentives and development area aid in areas such as this.

Will the right hon. Gentleman explain why, before the days of R.E.P., the position was so much better?

In this area, as in so many others, there has been a fall in employment in a traditional industry. The Opposition have not yet explained what they mean by phasing out the regional employment premium, whether they will abolish it before the date to which it is pledged, or, indeed, what are their development aids generally. The sooner these points are clear the sooner many hon. Members representing development area constituencies will have a clear idea of what to expect should hon. Gentlemen opposite win the election.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment and Productivity how many of the strikes and the number of days lost in consequence in 1969 she estimates were attributable to the non-recognition of trade unions by employers.

Analysis by cause of the final figures for stoppages of work due to industrial disputes in 1969 is not yet available, but I will write to my hon. Friend in due course.

I am sorry that my hon. Friend cannot give the figures for which I asked. Does he agree that it is a terrible reflection upon some employers that in 1970 trade unions still have to strike to get recognition? Is this not justification for my right hon. Friend bringing in as quickly as possible the Industrial Relations Bill?

Yes, Sir.

Is not the point made by the hon. Gentleman clear proof of the need for the proposal contained in "Fair Deal at Work" that there should be a legal duty on employers to recognise when that is the wish of the majority of their employees?

I do not know whether the right hon. Gentleman is advocating "Fair Deal at Work" as a panacea for curing industrial disputes. If they looked at it as a whole, I believe that the House would reach an opposite conclusion.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment and Productivity if she will publish a table showing the figures in employment in July 1964 and July 1969 in the coal mining industry, railways, public transport (buses), marine engineering and ship re-

ESTIMATED NUMBERS OF EMPLOYEES IN EMPLOYMENT IN MINIMUM LIST HEADINGS OF THE STANDARD INDUSTRIAL CLASSIFICATION 1958
		Coal mining	Railways	Road passenger transport	Marine engineering	(Thousands) Shipbuilding and ship repairing
		(MLH 101)	(MLH 701)	(MLH 702)	(MLH 370.2)	(MLH 370.1)
United Kingdom
June, 1964	…	591·3	392·8	270·3	60·0	155·9
June, 1966 (a)	…	512·7	330·8	267·5	51·7	162·3
(b)	…	512·7	330·9	270·3	50·8	162·9
June, 1968	…	427·5	293·1	265·8	41·8	155·6
Northern Region
June, 1964	…	119·0	22·1	19·4	10·3	32·9
June, 1966 (a)	…	100·7	19·3	19·0	8·5	34·3
(b)	…	100·7	19·3	19·0	8·4	34·4
June, 1968	…	78·3	14·5	18·6	5·1	32·5

asked the Secretary of State for Employment and Productivity whether she will now introduce legislation to amend the 1906 Trades Disputes Act as recommended by the Donovan Commission.

All the information requested is available for June but only a small part for July in each year. I will, with permission, circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT a table showing the information for June, 1964, and June, 1968. Similar information for June, 1969, will be available for the United Kingdom later this month and for the Northern Region probably in April.

As the North-East has suffered more from the contraction of these basic industries than any other part of the country, may I ask my right hon. Friend to ensure that announcements such as that made yesterday by the Minister of Technology are made with regularity until we have overcome unemployment problems in the North-East and the development areas in general.

Yes. These figures show that here, too, there has been a decline in employment in traditional industries. However, that has been compensated for to a significant degree by expansion in other industries due to development area assistance.

My right hon. Friend intends to introduce legislation on a number of industrial relations matters, including changes in the present laws governing trade unions and trade disputes.

Does my hon. Friend agree that the combined proposals of the Donovan Commission for extending the protection of Section 3 of the 1906 Act to breaches of commercial contract simultaneously with the withdrawal of immunity from actions instigated by those who have no responsibility was the right combination for preserving and extending commercial and industrial democracy?

No. I think that my hon. Friend has misunderstood the recommendations of the Royal Commission. It did not make these two matters contingent upon each other.

On the point about the inducement of breach of commercial contract, my right hon. Friend is now engaged in consultation with the T.U.C. and the C.B.I.

On the other point raised by my hon. Friend, the Government's view has clearly been stated in the White Paper. We do not believe that the protection of Section 3 should be narrowed in the way that the Royal Commission proposed.

Did not the Royal Commission make it clear that this immunity should be limited to registered unions? Is not the hon. Gentleman incorrect in saying that these matters were not linked in the Royal Commission's Report?

If the right hon. Gentleman will look at it again, I suggest that he will see that the two points raised by my hon. Friend were not linked and made to be contingent upon each other.

Concerning an extension of the immunities in Section 3, the Royal Commission was deeply divided, seven members coming down on one side and five on the other.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment and Productivity whether she will ask the Commission on Industrial Relations to investigate collective bargaining in the motor industry.

My right hon. Friend has already made several references to the C.I.R. concerning companies which manufacture motor-car components. Other possible references relating to industrial relations in the motor industry are under active consideration.

Can my hon. Friend indicate any industry in which there is a need for more urgent investigation of collective bargaining procedures than the motor industry? Does he agree that there is a major contradiction between the demands for parity and the desire of the Donovan Commission and many others to ensure that there is more plant and workshop bargaining?

Certainly. I am convinced that the C.I.R. can perform a useful rôle in this sphere, and we are taking action to enable it to do so.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will make a statement on the practice when answering Parliamentary Questions of referring hon. Members to policy statements which he has made on television telediphone recordings which do not claim to he totally accurate.

Frequently the answer is given to questions which ask me to place television telediphone recordings in the Library. I do this when appropriate, Sir, though I cannot accept responsibility for their complete accuracy.

As the B.B.C. specifically warns that these recordings are often inaccurate, may I ask whether it is wise for the Prime Minister to quote them when referring to his own policy? For example, does the Prime Minister recall saying on television last year that unofficial strikes simply have to be tackled and dealt with? Was that not an inaccurate recording?

It is true that each of these recordings warn against inaccuracy. That was a completely accurate statement, and it is the view of right hon. and hon. Members in all parts of the House. Where we disagree is how they should be dealt with. I assure the hon. Gentleman that the Conservative proposals would lead to far more strikes.

Is the Prime Minister telling the House that the matter has been dealt with and that the industrial unrest which he said must be tackled last year is now better rather than worse than it was a year ago?

At the risk of quoting something that I said on television when I was asked this question a little earlier in the year, I pointed out a fact known to all right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite, namely, that this is a problem affecting all advanced countries and that it affects some of them far worse than ourselves. In facing this new militancy, as we are, a lot of measures are needed, both short and long-term. I can only tell the right hon. Gentleman, who seems to be hedging all the time—I am glad to say—on his measures, that his measures would lead to far more strikes. Indeed, Tory policies in operation in America have led to prolonged strikes of many months causing the loss of more man days than we lost in the whole of last year.

asked the Prime Minister what recent public engagements he has fulfilled in his capacity as First Lord of the Treasury.

All my official engagements are performed in my capacity as Prime Minister and First Lord of the Treasury.

Does not the holding of this portfolio present the Prime Minister with a unique opportunity to travel the length and breadth of the land and perhaps even to make another frank and honest television broadcast in which he can explain how he proposes to fulfil and honour the pledge which he gave in 1964 that Labour's policy would be carried though without any general increases in taxation?

The hon. Gentleman, in common with his right hon. and hon. Friends, seems to be studying a lot of matters of that period—[Interruption.] It is a great improvement on the Selsdon Conference, which did not get beyond the 1930s. If the hon. Gentleman would spend a little more time studying these matters he would find that I said in 1964—I think he was referring to 1964—that we should introduce any taxation that might be proved necessary. But that was not in the hand-outs from Tory Central Office.

Does my right hon. Friend's calendar of future engagements include an address to workers in the civil aviation industry, and does he know what kind of reception he will get in view of yesterday's aeronautical Munich?

The engagements do not at present involve that speech, though I have met very many workers in many industries who have been concerned about some of the problems which the country is facing. As for yesterday, my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade, when he spoke as clearly as he did on both the questions which seem to perturb my hon. Friend, was speaking with the full support of Her Majesty's Government and of myself. If my hon. Friend does not like it, I am very sorry.

asked the Prime Minister if he will undertake an official tour of farms in the West of England.

I have no plans to do so, Sir.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that while farm productivity has gone up by 6 per cent. to 7 per cent. a year over the whole period of his office, net farm income in real terms is lower than it was in 1964? Is he aware that if he were to undertake such a tour he would find plenty of nice cheap farms available for his impending retirement?

I do not think that the hon. Gentleman can forecast the price, or anything else, of these farms at the time he has in mind, which is very many years ahead.

On the broader supplementary question, I have nothing to add to what my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food said yesterday. It was a very fair Price Review which he announced yesterday, though I note that, typically, almost every day—certainly every week and sometimes more than twice a week—the Tories are adding shadow-expenditure commitments which make a lot of nonsense of their so-called pledges on taxation.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that if he made a tour of Scottish farms he would find almost unanimous condemnation of Conservative agricultural policies?

Yes, Sir. Hon. Gentlemen opposite have talked about what my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food had to face in Exeter, which is certainly in the West Country, not long ago. In answer to my hon. Friend, I was interested to read Press reports of the reception of the Opposition spokesman on agriculture in Scotland, who was greeted with a piper's lament.

In view of the unanimous hostility of the farmers to yesterday's Price Review—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."]—would it come as a surprise to the Prime Minister to know that although I was called many rude things at that Ayrshire by-election, what he and his Ministers were called I would not wish to repeat for fear of bringing a blush to his cheek?

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman is so keen to stay in order. To answer the earlier part of his supplementary question, one would naturally expect the farmers to want more. Of course they would. However, it is the duty of hon. Members who are concerned with expenditure to have some regard also to the total expenditure commitments of the Government and to protect the housewife against the excessive price increases which would have been involved if we had met the farmers' full claims.

Since the hon. Gentleman referred to his recent experience, I might mention that I saw a report stating that the Kilmarnock contingent brought a piper who, in driving snow, played a lament outside the hall as young farmers chanted, "He is playing our tune".

asked the Prime Minister whether he intends to make an official visit to Czechoslovakia this year.

No, Sir.

Does the right hon. Gentleman remember telling the House on 5th February that our general contact with the Russians over the Treaty of Friendship had been much set back by the events in Czechoslovakia 18 months ago? Would he now tell us what sudden access of freedom has occurred in Czechoslovakia to justify his renewing overtures to the Kremlin?

I am not sure to what the hon. Gentleman is referring when he says "overtures to the Kremlin," but he will remember that the House expressed horror over the action in Czechoslovakia in the emergency recall of Parliament in August, 1968.

Those events led to a very severe cooling off of relations between this and other Western countries and the Eastern bloc. I have given a number of reports to the House on the resumption of certain contacts. That in no way qualifies what we have felt about the Czechoslovak events —I know that that feeling is shared by the hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends—and it does not mean any acceptance by us of the so-called Brezhnev doctrine.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that it is important that we should resume our contacts with the Russians, while not accepting their policy in Czechoslovakia? Would he indicate to the House that the Government give full support to the efforts of Herr Willy Brandt to improve the situation from the point of view of European security?

I believe that I have made that clear. If there is any doubt about it, I think that it was shown by the great reception which was given by all sections of opinion in the House and in the country to the recent visit of the German Chancellor. Nobody will underrate the supreme importance of the talks which started in East Germany this morning. I discussed these questions and their prospects with the Chancellor. Nobody would expect rapid results, after 20 years of German history, but I know that the good wishes of the whole House go out to Herr Brandt in the talks, in the initiative in which he has shown such great courage and statesmanship.

asked the Prime Minister what recent consultations he has had with the National Economic Development Council with regard to the effect of rising prices on Great Britain's competitiveness; and if he will make a statement.

The United Kingdom's competitive position is regularly reviewed by the Council and information about this was before the Council at its meeting on 16th March.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the House was told last month, in answer to a Question from me, that between the third quarter of 1968 and the third quarter of 1969 average earnings rose four times as fast as the gross domestic product? Can he say what the trend has been since the third quarter of 1969 and how it compares with the position in our main competitor countries?

On the particular period which the hon. Gentleman mentioned, the figures which were before the Council on Monday were, in fact, the I.M.F. figures, and they showed that over the period mentioned by the hon. Gentleman the changes in export prices, in terms of dollars, were, for Britain, plus two; for the United States, plus three; for France, plus two; for Germany, plus three; for Italy, plus 7¼—there was a slight difficulty in that case; for Japan, plus three; and for all industrial countries, plus three, showing that during that period we improved, not worsened, our competitive position.

Since then, there have been no authoritative I.M.F. figures. Certainly wages costs have risen somewhat in this country, as they have in other countries. Hon. Members have no doubt seen recent reports saying, for example, that in Germany, one of the most competitive countries, there has been a 13 per cent. increase in wages in the last quarter of 1969 over the corresponding period of 1968.

Does my right hon. Friend know that the C.B.I. is advising its constituent members not to inform the P.I.B. in advance of any price increases? Would he express to the House some disappointment at the fact that the C.B.I. is contracting out of its obligations in respect of price increases? [Interruption.] Would he say whether we are to look forward to a period of non-co-operation from the C.B.I.?