asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is satisfied with the rate of progress of house improvement in Scotland following the passing of the Housing (Scotland) Act, 1969; and if he will make a statement.

I shall be satisfied only when no more improvement work remains to be done, but in the first quarter of this year 25 per cent. more applications for grant were approved than in the first quarter of 1969.

Will the Minister of State say what progress has been made in privately-rented accommodation, which is a very important sector, particularly in certain cities?

There has been an improvement in the first quarter of 1970 compared with that of 1969, although not quite as dramatic an improvement as that in the local authority sector. I have taken the first quarter deliberately because, as is understandable, in the last quarter of 1969 people were waiting to see what the Act meant before they made applications.

How many applications have been received from the City of Glasgow, and how many houses are involved?

I am afraid that I cannot give that information without notice. But I am not satisfied with the pace at which it is proceeding.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has completed his study of the Cullingworth Report on Owner Occupation in Scotland, a copy of which has been sent to him; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will make a statement on the Cullingworth Report on Owner Occupation in Scotland, a copy of which is in his possession.

At present I cannot add to the reply given to the hon. Member for North Angus and Mearns (Mr. Buchanan-Smith) on 18th February. —[Vol. 796, c. 123.]

Is the Minister of State aware that the report highlights the fact that in Scotland home ownership is unattractive by comparison with renting? What steps are the Government taking to try to make home ownership more attractive for people in Scotland?

I appreciate the usefulness of the report. The Secretary of State read it with great interest. But the hon. Member knows from a previous reply that we are conducting a general review of housing finance in both the public and the private sectors. We are making this an intensive review.

Does the hon. Member recognise that there is less home ownership in Scotland than in any other country west of the Iron Curtain? What positive steps can he take to encourage local authorities to sell local authority houses to individuals, to satisfy the great demand which is building up for private home ownership in Scotland?

I am not sure about the comparison with other countries west of the Iron Curtain.

It is true.

It is in the report.

I am entitled occasionally to have opinions of my own, whether the report makes that statement or not. I am not certain whether the facts stated are fair. But that is not the point. The point is that during the 13 years that the Conservative Party were in office the position was exactly the same. The proportion has always been one in five. We all regret that. The Labour Government in 1968 and 1969 achieved record years of private house building. We hope, with our general review, to do better.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will now institute a review of the law relating to sentences for murder in Scotland, following the representations made to him by the hon. Member for Moray and Nairn.

I have considered this matter in the light of the hon. Gentleman's representations and of the abolition of the death penalty, but I am not persuaded of the need for an examination by a committee of inquiry.

Since the law on this matter is the same in Scotland as in England, as the Secretary of State recently confirmed in a Parliamentary reply, thus contradicting a wild statement made by one of his Under-Secretaries, why is the right hon. Gentleman not taking similar action to that of the Home Secretary, whom I see here? Has he noted the remarks by eminent members of the judiciary that judges ought to have power to give longer sentences instead of being restricted to the mandatory sentence for murder?

Yes, I have noted references by eminent authorities on English law to, I presume, English practice. But the hon. Member is wrong when he refers to the Home Secretary's committee. This is a standing committee, of which we have no equivalent in Scotland. It is going into the whole question of offences against the person, including definitions. The hon. Member should be the first to realise that the definition of murder in Scotland is much more satisfactory than is the definition of murder in England. It would be quite wrong for me, on the basis of problems in England, to set up such a committee in Scotland.

Would my right hon. Friend accept that the circumstances in English law are very different in this case and that there is no need to " bandwagon " in the blatant way that hon. Members opposite are doing? Would he accept that there are, inevitably and properly, enormous variations in the time served under life sentences and that the only answer must be to have a mandatory life sentence, to mark the unique seriousness of the crime, combined with maximum flexibility to allow the authorities to take account of changing circumstances?

I constantly have Scots law under review. I am not deaf to any reasonable appeals which may be made to me, but I would ask hon. Gentlemen to appreciate that the procedures in Scottish courts, the verdicts in Scottish courts, and how these are reached, are all different. Let us not just trail on the heels of England.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not accept, recognising that there are differences, that these are marginal in their effect and that the problem facing the criminal law in Scotland following the abolition of the death penalty is essentially the same as the problem in England?

The hon. and learned Gentleman should know that the problem has been there for some time—

Since the abolition of the death penalty?

No. The problem has been there for some time. There have been no suggestions that we should have recourse to variable determinate sentences. If hon. Gentlemen opposite would examine it they will find that there are tremendous difficulties which may lead to public concern if, within this variation and taking into account the circumstances of a particular crime, we were to get four or five cases of murder in which the sentence could be two, three or four years' imprisonment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the latest position in regard to rationalising the planning system in the area of the Firth of Clyde.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on his plans for future planning arrangements in the Clyde Valley.

The Clyde Valley Planning Advisory Committee has for some time been considering proposals but before it by my hon. Friend the Minister of State for setting up an organisation to prepare a regional advisory plan for West Central Scotland. My hon. Friend is meeting the committe on 24th April, and I hope that final arrangements can be agreed at the meeting.

Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that it is now a year since the Government began to reactivate this advisory committee? Has the committee yet agreed with the Government upon its tasks or has agreement still to be decided on Friday? Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied with the progress to date?

There is less trouble about the tasks, and we could readily reach agreement in respect of that aspect. It is the question of how to proceed from the point of view of representation on the committee. I am not pessimistic about the outcome, and I hope that on Friday my hon. Friend will reach a measure of agreement.

Will my right hon. Friend accept that there are those of us who think that the advisory committee was allowed, by the other side of the House, to lie dormant for far too long? Can he assure the House that he is aware that we in Rutherglen and Lanarkshire would like him to act on this, because we are genuinely concerned about the effect of the movement of industry and so forth from Lanarkshire to the coast and the effect that it will have on the economy in general?

I am conscious of the cooperation that we have had from Rutherglen. Most people are anxious to have this committee reactivated. I am hopeful that my hon. Friend's meeting on Friday will have this effect.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind the proposals by Lord Wheatley when he produces his White Paper on this very important subject?

This is a different question. There are many aspects of co-operation which have to be taken into account and which can be frustrated by a failure to get agreement among different local authorities over the regional policy.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland to what extent the trend of employment in the Tayside area is in accordance with the targets set out in the White Paper, " The Scottish Economy 1965 to 1970 ".

Employment projections for individual areas of Scotland were not made in the White Paper.

Will the right hon. Gentleman not admit frankly that employment on Tayside has fallen sharply, as it has throughout Scotland? Will he now revise the totally misleading forecasts in his pre-election White Paper?

The hon. Gentleman still gets confused about manpower projections, which his Government never even tried to do, and the question of new jobs. He knows quite well that what is happening now in the Tayside area, with the Tayside Consultative Group, is forward planning for the development of the area, which has the support of most people in Tayside, if not of the hon. Gentleman.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what further discussions he has held with regard to the future of local authority fee-paying schools in Edinburgh and Glasgow.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a further statement on the discussions which he has had with Glasgow and Edinburgh Corporations about the future of their fee-paying and selective schools.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what reply he has received from Edinburgh Corporation to his letter of 23rd January on the subject of future arrangements which he has asked it to make with regard to fee-paying schools and if he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will make a further statement on fee-paying schools in Edinburgh, in the light of the replies of Edinburgh Corporation to his letter of 23rd January.

My Department wrote to Edinburgh and Glasgow Corporations on 23rd January asking them to consider amendments to their scheme of transfer and educational provision to take account of the 1969 Education (Scotland) Act which removes the power to charge fees for school education at schools managed by them. Edinburgh requested a discussion, which was held on 20th February. I now have replies from both authorities, and I am considering these.

Will the hon. Gentleman assure us that while he considers these proposals he will stop bullying and badgering the democratically-elected bodies in Edinburgh and Glasgow?

I would not accept for one moment that I have been bullying and badgering anyone on this. I certainly intend to give the replies full consideration, but I would hope that some kind of announcement would be made about the result of that consideration quite shortly.

Would the hon. Gentleman make it clear that a scheme will be absolutely unacceptable if it contains any selection method for entry to secondary schools?

I have already made it clear that we want to see the abolition of selection.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that many people are out- raged at the Government not only for depriving them of freedom of choice but more particularly for the way in which they have kicked in the teeth two of Scotland's largest local authorities which are perfectly capable of making up their own minds on this matter?

I am not aware that there is a large number of people who are outraged. I am aware that a large number of people in Scotland fully support the Government's determination to introduce comprehensive reorganisation because they are aware of the wastage involved in the selective system.

Is my hon. Friend aware that as we in Midlothian have no fee-paying schools, and because we live close to Edinburgh, many people are leaving Edinburgh and coming to live in Midlothian because of the education set-up there?

I am aware of the excellent education record of the Midlothian authority, and I am very much looking forward to opening a large new comprehensive school in Midlothian this Friday.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will reconstitute the Scottish Advisory Council on the Treatment of Offenders, with a view to giving further consideration to the custodial treatment of young offenders in Scotland.

As the hon. and learned Member will know, my right hon. Friend has circulated for comment proposals for altering the custodial sentences for young offenders. In present circumtances I do not think that a committee of inquiry would be appropriate.

I am aware that this memorandum has been circulated and I have read it with interest. Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Home Secretary has remitted a similar problem to the Advisory Council on the Penal System? Is he further aware that I cannot understand the reluctance of Scottish Ministers to set up a similar body in Scotland? Would it not be better, on such a broad issue, when young offenders unfortunately loom so large in our criminal records, if we were to reconstitute the very useful body which did such good work in this direction 10 years ago?

It is true that it did good work, and was stood down by the party opposite. The point is that the proposal arose from a wide-ranging conference. All the views expressed were sent to every organisation involved and we are studying the representations made on that basis. This is an equally democratic method, which is more effective and certainly swifter.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when a passenger transport authority will be established in the Glasgow area.

Not till after my right hon. Friend has completed the necessary consultations.

As the Minister has already refused to give me an assurance that he will not force a P.T.A. on Glasgow against its wishes, can he at least give a promise to the people of Glasgow that before he insists on a P.T.A. being established he will make it clear to the ratepayers of Glasgow and other authorities what a P.T.A. will mean in increased rates?

The hon. Gentleman will know that the Lord Provost, who has approached the Government formally on this matter, as well as Glasgow Corporation, is well aware that if the corporation has points to raise about boundaries, membership or other matters we will certainly arrange a meeting with a Scottish Minister, if not my right hon. Friend. The local authorities have now had three months to make informal comments. After we have had these there will be a further process of consultation about any draft designation order, but no single authority can have the right of veto over the promotion of a P.T.A.

Does my hon. Friend recognise that the Scottish T.U.C. supports the introduction of the P.T.A.?

Yes. In addition, the hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward M. Taylor) is perhaps not aware that most of the Press, including the Right-wing Press—perhaps that is not a commendation—endorses the fact that the P.T.A. is a good idea.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what will be the percentage increase in the number of employees in employment during the year June, 1969, to June, 1970, required to fulfil the predictions in Table B of page 9 of Command Paper No. 2864; and how this compares with the actual outturn in each of the last five years.

For reasons which I have already given, I do not expect the manpower projection for 1970 to be attained. This would require an increase of at least 4 per cent. between 1969 and 1970, compared with percentage changes of 0·8; 0·2; —2·0; —0·7 and 0·2 in the previous five years.

That is a more honest reply than we have had from the Secretary of State for some time. While we all recognise that the Scottish Plan is as dead as the dodo or the Government's 1964 election pledges, could the right hon. Gentleman not at least try to undertake to secure the 21,000 jobs required this year to bring the situation back to what it was when he took office?

I do not think that anyone in Scotland wants the situation to return to what it was when hon. Gentlemen opposite were in power. I have long since recognised the impossibility of freeing the hon. Member from statistical entanglements. He does not yet know the difference between projections and new jobs. The fact is that we have produced more new jobs, roads, houses and schools. The hon. Gentleman's persistence is fatuous, futile, and forlorn.

Will my right hon. Friend explain to the hon. Gentleman opposite how far the net shortfall is made up of low-paid farm workers, domestic servants and messenger boys, who have virtually disappeared from the employment scene in Scotland these days?

My hon. Friend should appreciate that we have tried to explain this to the hon. Gentleman but we recognise his limitations and it would be a waste of time trying to educate him. The fact that there are now 24,000 more people staying on at school and as full-time students at colleges of education and universities has a considerable effect upon the figures.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, however much he may haver, he is 101,000 jobs adrift from his pre-election promise?

The hon. Gentleman is, of course, wrong again.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he intends to issue a White Paper on the Government's proposals concerning the financial arrangements for implementing the Wheatley Report recommendations.

The Government's proposals will be published in a Green Paper in time for consultations and public discussion to take place before legislation is prepared.

While I do not wish to press the right hon. Gentleman unduly, does he realise that until we have some idea of what the financial proposals are, and their implications, it is very difficult to come to sensible conclusions about these recommendations?

I am satisfied that the way we are proceeding is right. This information will be laid before the House.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, while he may say that consultation is important, a lot of people in local government are extremely disappointed that the consultation has not taken place before the White Paper has been produced?

If the hon. Gentleman really wants to make progress in this he should appreciate that if we embark upon what would be virtually another Royal Commission it would be many years before we achieved the reorganisation which everyone agrees is urgently necessary.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what recent directives or advice he has issued to local authorities in Scotland concerning the future building of high blocks of flats.

I am sending the hon. Member a copy of a circular issued by my Department on 17th April which gives local and buildings authorities information on loading standards in the design of high flats and other buildings.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that high flats are often ugly and that people do not like to live in them? Is he aware that some are dangerous? Is it not time that we ceased to build them and provided more reasonable accommodation, particularly for children, because there is never enough space for them in these flats?

That is a very big question. Some local authorities will disagree with the hon. Gentleman but there are certain physical facts about the need for multi-storey flats. The social implications of living in high flats are the subject of an examination by the Department of Social and Economic Research of Glasgow University. On the whole, local authorities are anxious to build a certain proportion of multi-storey flats but they will be looking forward to our circular when the Building (Scotland) Bill is through both Houses. We expect to issue the circular then.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there has been a good deal of criticism of some of these high-rise flats by social workers, planning authorities and, as recently as this week, on aesthetic grounds the Saltire Society? What work are the Government undertaking on low-rise high density housing, some of which is now being discussed in architectural circles?

That is a fair point and I do not deny it. In certain cities, Glasgow being an outstanding example, there is a clear case for multi-storey building, but as early as 1965 the Government urged Glasgow Corporation not to build so many multi-storey flats or buildings as it was intending to build in the last four years.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland to what extent the increased haulage charges to farmers by the operation of the Transport Act was taken into account by the Price Review.

Increases in transport costs in general are taken into account at each Annual Review.

Does the Minister realise that, over and above increased transport costs, chaos is being created in the industry by the application of the Transport Act? Is he aware that large numbers of cattle and sheep are being stranded in the marts overnight, and even longer, because of the limitation on drivers' hours?

This is not a new experience. It has always been the case at every busy mart that cattle may be left overnight, and hon. Members opposite know it. The only adjustment was the change in working hours of one hour. The House will be pleased to know that I am arranging a meeting of all those involved in markets to discuss this matter. It will be chaired by one of my officers and will include Ministry of Transport officials and the N.F.U.

Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that the full effects of this measure were not known at the time of the Price Review? Does he not realise that auctioneers and farmers all over the country are worried about what will happen when markets get really busy at the end of the year and that this may cause more cruelty to the animals?

I have been keeping an eye on this matter. The most publicised event was the mart at St. Boswells. I had a senior official there to keep an eye on things. The facts were not as bad as they appeared from similarly-worded reports in two newspapers on the following day. We are looking into this matter and it is being looked after. I wish hon. Members opposite would not try to cry "Doom " before a new project has got off the ground.

Would my hon. Friend take a strong line against these backwoodsmen who are trying to portray Scotland as being a land where men have to work more hours than men do in England to keep the economy going? Will he see to it that the provisions applying to drivers' hours will apply in Scotland as they do in England?

I hope that hon. Members opposite will have in mind what my hon. Friend has said. He is correct. This is a valuable social development which was done for good human reasons. If difficulties arise, it is our task to cope with them, rather than use them to try to defeat the Transport Act.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the target for the number of hill ewes in Scotland for 1970–71.

There is no specific target for hill ewes; but numbers in Scotland have shown no significant change in recent years.

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that the price of wool exerts a significant influence on the number of hill ewes? Why has the price of black-faced wool been reduced by 3d. per lb. and of Cheviot and half-bred wool by 2d. per lb. in the last week or two? Does he not agree that this is an intolerable reduction and shows further double-talk on the Price Review?

That might have been useful if the hon. Gentleman had put down a specific question on the matter of wool. As regards the number of hill ewes, one of the most important factors involved is the weather, and not even this Government have been able to control the weather. On the question of Government resources for development, it will be remembered that we raised the end price for sheep by 8¾d. and that the Conservative Party reduced it.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I shall seek leave to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what level of production he estimates from hill and upland farms in 1970; and how this compares with 1969.

Some increase in cattle production on hill and upland farms is expected in 1970 compared with 1969. The level of sheep production will depend on this year's lamb crop, which cannot yet be forecast.

Is it not, therefore, extremely disappointing that the price of wool has now remained the same for the last 10 years? Will the hon. Gentleman look at this matter as sympathetically as he can?

Yes, Sir. It is curious how hon. Members opposite pick on one aspect. If they look at the increases in end price and the hill sheep subsidy, the winter keep scheme, the hill land improvement scheme, and the introduction of the new upland hill sheep subsidy, they will find that all these are worth noting. I wish they would get the wool out of their eyes and look at this.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware that pupils attending special schools and under 16 years of age are not exempt from prescription charges; and if he will take steps to end this anomaly.

There is exemption for children up to the fifteenth birthday. I do not think any alteration of the existing arrangements is necessary.

But is my hon. Friend not overlooking the fact that these children at special schools due to physical handicaps are compelled to have a shorter day in school and consequently have a longer school life? Why should they be penalised from the age of 15 to 16 because of their physical disability? Will not my hon. Friend look again at the exemptions in regard to school children?

But my hon. Friend must understand that the exemption provision was on an age basis, not on the basis of whether or not a particular child was continuing at school. I do not think there is any case for changing this provision for the kind of children he has in mind. There are special arrangements for the chronic sick, and also provisions for exemption in the case of hardship.

Would the hon. Gentleman agree that some school children have to stay on well after the age of 15 until the end of the term, and that one child in my constituency was in court on Monday of this week for this very reason? Might there not be a case for suggesting that the period should be not necessarily until 14 to 16 but until the last legal day they must stay on at school?

There are considerable complications involved. The last legal day until which a child has to stay on at school is not a particular birthday but depends on the incidence of leaving dates. I know the motives and feelings behind this question, but I do not think the case for a change has been made out.

Would the Minister take the point that the only real way to rid the system of anomalies is to abolish prescription charges altogether?

I take the point, but that is a rather wider question which we have debated on many occasions.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland on what basis he approves charges made by the Scottish Transport Group on different routes.

I approve charges only in respect of sea services operated by David MacBrayne Limited, on the basis set out in clause 19 of the undertaking with the company made in accordance with the Highlands and Islands Shipping Services Act 1960.

I congratulate the Secretary of State on his, to use a commercial term, remarkable shelf life in his present job. Why is he dealing only with Messrs. MacBrayne and allowing charges to one of my more prosperous islands to be exactly one third of the cost per mile to one of my less prosperous islands? This does not make sense to my constituents or to me.

I begin to wonder and realise why the right hon. Gentleman is on the shelf. [HON. MEMBERS: " Oh!"] The distance to be travelled or the time taken to cover it are not by any means the only factors to be taken into account in fixing the charges on particular routes. These include the total costs of operating the service and the volume of traffic.

That is a very unsatisfactory answer.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what calculations he has made of the effects of the Budget on the work of the Highland Development Board.

The reduction in Bank Rate, the permitted increase in bank lending for productive investment in agriculture and manufacturing industry, and the increase in the initial allowance for industrial building in development areas should provide useful additional incentives to industry in the Highlands.

Has the Secretary of State made any calculation as to why the large increases in cost of living and the costs of unit production are much greater in the Highlands than in other parts of Scotland? Is he not aware that this is the major problem of the Highland Development Board in trying to attract new work there?

I appreciate and welcome the right hon. Member's interest in the work of the Highland Development Board, since it was not always evident in the early days. If he looks at the reports produced by the Highlands and Islands Development Board, despite considerable difficulties—and one should not underestimate the difficulties of these remote areas —they have been making considerable progress. In relation to the Budget, I think it will be very helpful.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the right hon. Member for Argyll (Mr. Noble) described the Act under which the board was established as a Marxist measure? Is it to be presumed that he is now supporting the progress of Marxism in the Scottish Highlands?

I cannot answer for the right hon. Gentleman and his conversion to support of the Highland Development Board, but no doubt he will remember that I described his criticisms as emanating rather from Groucho Marx.

Does the Secretary of State accept that one of the greatest factors affecting the Highlands is transport costs, and that a large proportion of these results from taxation, and what is he going to do about it?

The hon. Gentleman had an opportunity to make a speech on that point, as did his right hon. Friend, during the Budget debate.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what has been the cost to date to public funds of attempts by the Land Commission to secure payment of betterment levy in cases where it ultimately proved necessary to abandon assessments owing to inability to pay.

I regret that this information is not available.

Then I suggest the Minister should find out. Is it not absurd that this body should try to extract £800 in betterment levy from some of my constituents, who had to sell an asset at a £5,000 loss, when the only result of proceeding with this assessment will be a bankrupt company without getting a penny for the Land Commission? Can he not now stop this absurd procedure before we abolish the Land Commission altogether?

There is no intention to abolish the Land Commission. The next Government, which we will form, will not abolish it. There are six cases in all referred to in Scotland. I cannot give the figures because separate records are not available. We are in correspondence on the particular case to which he has referred. The direct costs of the Commission in assessing and collecting levy in Scotland in 1969–70 were 2s. 5d. per £1 of the land assessed. The ratio of cost to return has shown steady improvement since the commission was set up, and we hope that further improvement will come about. The hon. Gentleman cannot ask us to give a general power to the commission to exempt anyone from a legal liability. He is trying to postulate a peculiarly un-British doctrine.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland to what extent the public are denied access to the foreshore and seaside beaches by virtue of private ownership of such land; and what steps he intends to take to remedy this situation.

Public rights to the foreshore in respect of navigation, white fishing and recreation remain even where it is privately owned. But it is in the public interest that these rights should be fortified by ownership of the foreshore remaining with the Crown. I hope that an Amendment recently made to the Conveyancing and Feudal Reform (Scotland) Bill will assist the Crown Estate Commissioners to protect their ownership rights in the foreshore.

The answer is all very well as far as it goes and is welcome, but will my right hon. Friend undertake to exempt the terms of a lease granted by the Fife County Council to a private developer in North Queensferry, which has had the effect of excluding not only local residents but also tourists from the only accessible part of the foreshore? Is this not intolerable in Conservation Year?

I would be happy to examine any relevant matter my hon. Friend sends to me. I am interested in this matter from the point of view that we have noticed a loss to the Crown of foreshore rights by relaxations made a long time ago in respect of prescription. I look forward to seeing this particular lease.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a variety of landlords of all types are restricting the access over their land and so preventing the use of the foreshore? Is it not time that a Labour Government in particular seriously considered giving the residents of the Highlands a right to fish in rivers without all the bother to which they are put?

The last part involves another question altogether, but the question of access is important to Scotland. I have no evidence to suggest that this is a major problem, but I should be glad to look at any such evidence. The hon. Lady will be aware that we have set up the Countryside Commission to ensure the extension of access not just to beaches but elsewhere to the public generally.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what estimate he has made of the average weekly increase in council house rents needed for existing dwellings, in shillings, on the basis that housing subsidies in Scotland as a whole are abolished, excepting old people's accommodation; and what is the estimated weekly increase needed to offset the subsidy on dwellings under construction on 1st January, 1970.

For existing houses about 12s. a week, and for houses under construction on 1st January about 3s. a week on all local authority houses; but the increase in a particular area or for a particular tenant might differ widely from the average.

Does not my hon. Friend agree that if the policies of the Opposition on housing subsidies were ever implemented council house tenants would be faced with intolerable financial burdens in future?

Yes, I do very much, and there is an obligation on the Opposition to make their policies quite clear.

Surely the Minister of State realises that the whole tenor of that supplementary question is based on a pure hypothesis? Would he not agree that the best way to spend money on housing is to spend more on those in need and to help them more than is being done at the moment?

These may be impure policies of the Opposition, but hardly pure ones. The hon. Member should read the leader of the Progressive Conservative Alliance's speech to see once again how his policies are being taken as a basis for the view that it is the intention of the Opposition, if ever they get power, to try to alter these subsidies in the adverse way reflected by this Question.

Is the Minister of State aware that what is in this Question is unrelated to the policy of any known political party? Is the Minister now taking the opportunity of again ringing a doorbell and running away?

My objection is not to ringing doorbells but to finding them, for there are 3,000 short in Erskine and we would like to have more houses there. The Opposition have suggested reforms in housing finance which they have spelled out to their supporters to such an extent that they believe various things will happen, as reflected adversely in my hon. Friend's Question.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many housing authorities in Scotland at present do not make mortgage advances; and if he will take steps to encourage them to do so.

The councils of five counties, three large burghs and 101 small burghs have made no mortgage advances in recent years. A circular has been sent to all housing authorities drawing their attention to the recently-announced increase in the amount available for this purpose in 1970–71.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that every reasonable opportunity should be taken to encourage private house ownership? Will the recent reductions in Bank Rate enable local authorities to improve and make more attractive the mortgage advance scheme?

I certainly agree with both points. Unfortunately, some of the authorities concerned have not reacted as well as we would like them to. Perhaps the hon. Member for Moray and Nairn (Mr. Gordon Campbell) would agree to speak to Nairn on this matter, and to some of his small burghs which are delinquent, and the hon. Member for Hamilton (Mrs. Ewing) may speak to Stirling burgh, where the Nationalists are in control.

Is the Minister of State aware that I am very pleased to hear that he is taking steps to encourage local authorities to make use of mortgage facilities? Will he also take steps to encourage them to make generous loan agreements with housing associations which need close co-operation with local authorities?

I agree with that. In the general review of housing finance which we are conducting, we want to take into account experience on housing associations, particularly of co-ownership schemes.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many new hospitals have been built in Scotland since the inception of the National Health Service; and if he will list the names of the hospitals and the year they were built.

Since 1948 25 major hospital projects have been built in Scotland which in view of their comprehensive nature can be considered to be new hospitals or their equivalent. I am publishing a list in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Since my hon. Friend is aware that the National Health Service was instituted about 21 years ago, can he say how many hospitals have been built during the last five or six years under this Government?

I am glad to inform my hon. Friend that of the 25 I have mentioned built since 1948, no fewer than 17 were completed in the years from 1965 to 1969.

How many were started?

A jolly sight more than were started in the whole of the years in which hon. Members opposite were in office.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the total sum spent in Scotland on the National Health Service since its inception; and how much has been spent each year since 1965 to the nearest available date.

About £1,880 million to 31st March, 1969. The expenditure over the last four years of this period was as follows:

Would my hon. Friend not agree that the decision taken by the Scottish Trades Union Congress yesterday to give a full backing to Labour and a Labour Government appears justified in the light of the figures he has given? Can he tell the House whether the Prime Minister has been informed about those figures, since he is addressing the Scottish Trades Union Congress today?

I am not sure about the last point but perhaps I could send my right hon. Friend a telegram. Just to point the contrast with £181 million for 1968–69, I should point out that in the last full year for which hon. Members opposite have responsibility, 1963–64, the figure was only £111 million.

Will the Under-Secretary point out to his hon. Friend the Member for Midlothian (Mr. Eadie) that it is not surprising to find the Labour Party supported by the S.T.U.C. in view of the fact that it not only forms the greatest part of but controls the Labour Party?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what recent discussions he has held regarding the future of the grant-aided schools; and whether he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will make a statement on the Public School Commission Report on Grant-aided Schools in Scotland.

I am not yet in a position to add to what my right hon. Friend said in reply to the hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edwin M. Taylor) on 15th April.—[Vol. 799, c. 1386–7.]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree with his right hon. Friend the Minister of State for Education and Science in England and Wales that local authorities which send pupils to similar schools in England obtain a very good bargain? Why does he want to destroy these schools?

I am not aware that any local education authority in Scotland sends any pupils to grant-aided schools except for a number of local arrangements which affect a very small number of pupils and where the local school provides part of the secondary school education concerned.

Will my hon. Friend accept that there has been a wide welcome in Scotland for the report, which points the way to the ending of the present anomalous situation in which public money is used to support a small privileged élite of schools whose activities are quite incompatible with comprehensive education and whose continued survival hinders the progress of the majority of children in the interests of preserving so-called advantages for a few?

I agree that it is a very valuable report and there are anomalies in the present situation but I am not able to add very much to that at the moment.

Can the hon. Gentleman assure the House that he will remain in the position of not being in a position to say anything more about this damaging proposal?

No, Sir. I think the proposals are worthy of consideration, and we shall be giving our reactions to them as soon as we have considered them.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the work carried out by river purification boards on fishing matters including the participation in stocking and fishing management programmes presently undertaken by the Clyde Angling Association.

River purification boards are primarily responsible for preventing pollution. I understand, however, that the Clyde Board gives advice to fishing associations on fish rearing and stocking.

Is my hon. Friend aware that, while we recognise that the river purification boards are functioning very well on the east coast of Scotland and, with the appropriate officers, had to do so because of the value of the salmon fisheries there, on the west coast of Scotland last year 30,000 dead seagulls were picked up most of which on examination were shown to have died through the effects of pollution? Is he aware that this is increasing on the west coast of Scotland and that river purification boards there are practically non-existent and there is only one purification officer known to me and he was recently appointed by Glasgow Corporation.

I would be very glad to comment on the latter part of the question when we reach Question 46. Sticking strictly to the terms of Question No. 30, my hon. Friend will be glad to know that the Clyde and the Ayrshire boards employ biologists to measure the quality of the river waters in terms of animal and plant life and other bodies have the advantage of advice of the Freshwater Fisheries Laboratory at Pitlochry. If he has other points to make in correspondence, I will answer them.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of that Answer I shall present my hon. Friend with the other points on an Adjournment Motion.

Is the Minister aware of the great concern felt by anglers about the pollution of the River Ayr by the National Coal Board in recent months? Will he say what he proposes to do about the representations made to him on this subject?

That is an entirely different question, but I will willingly correspond with the hon. Gentleman about it. In fairness, I cannot answer matters raised on Question 30 which are dealt with in later Questions today and Questions put down for later dates.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is satisfied with the progress made in the fishing industry in Scotland with regard to catching power; and if he will make a statement.

I am reasonably satisfied with the steady growth overall in the weight and value of the Scottish catch.

Will the Minister say what specific proposals he has for increasing commercial fishing by the Scottish fishing fleet, particularly in relation to the letter which I recently sent to him?

I have received a large number of letters from the hon. Gentleman in the last few days, and I do not know which one he is referring to. [Laughter.] I mean this genuinely. The White Fish Authority has launched a publicity scheme which will help on the market side, and our increase of grants and loans on vessels to the 90 per cent. level should help on the catching side.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps he is taking to prevent the spread of Warfarin-resistant rodents in Scotland; and if he will make a statement.

Under the Prevention of Damage by Pests Act 1949 local authorities have a general responsibility in this matter. My Department has given local authorities advice on the problem of Warfarin resistance after undertaking field investigations and research. A further investigation is planned of the extent of the area of resistance and of the effect of the counter-measures adopted by the local authorities concerned.

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that Warfarin has been a considerable factor in keeping down the rodent population, particularly on farms, and will he ensure that research continues into a chemical preparation to take the place of Warfarin if resistance becomes a major factor in Scotland?

Yes, one cannot predict that far ahead, but research is continuing, and I have already discussed with the hon. Member some of the problems involved. I have noted the point.

Will my hon. Friend confirm that the powers of the Prevention of Damage by Pests Act are sufficient, and say what his Department is doing to encourage local authorities to meet this problem?

We have made an assessment of the position. In Scotland it is suggested that the best way to tackle this is to reduce the number of rats within the area of resistance. With that method of handling—it is rather different in other parts of the United Kingdom—it is better to involve local authorities, and we are working very closely with them on the general policy.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is aware of the concern in Dundee about employment prospects there, due to the run-down of the jute industry; and if he will take steps to provide more job opportunities in Dundee.

My right hon. Friend the Minister of Technology and I are keeping in the closest touch with the problems of the jute industry, and there will be no relaxation of the Government's efforts, already producing valuable results, in encouraging new industrial growth and expansion in the Dundee area.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that thousands of jobs in the jute industry have recently been lost and that thousands more will be lost in the near future before the industry settles down to a new lower level? There is, therefore, urgent need to provide new employment in this area now or in the immediate future.

Yes, I am aware of the difficulties of the jute industry, but it is only fair to say that the industry itself has responded to the challenge of change and has done some diversification. My hon. Friend should not be too despondent about it; the unemployment rate in Dundee is still below the Scottish average. We are very much alive to the present problems and, as my hon. Friend knows, Dundee's needs have certainly not been ignored by this Government in the past five years.

Is the Secretary of State aware of the pledge given on behalf of the Prime Minister that jute jobs would be safeguarded under a Labour Government? Since the Prime Minister seems reluctant to do so, will the Secretary of State make it clear that this was a lightly-given promise and not a firm pledge?

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the reply he received from the Prime Minister.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will seek powers to enable him to review decisions by local authorities, particularly those made by committees, which are not subject to the approval of the local council.

No, Sir. Within their statutory powers local authorities have discretion to take their own decisions and to delegate decision-making to their committees. I would not think it right to seek to restrict their discretion.

Is my hon. Friend aware that in Dundee recently 29 new houses built to standard building regulations were liable to be knocked down simply because a committee of the corporation, not the corporation itself, had power to take such a decision? Does not he feel that there should be a fall-back power to the Secretary of State in exceptional cases to avoid this stupidity?

My hon. Friend has great experience of local government and was a distinguished treasurer for the City of Dundee, but, as he knows, the buildings authority in Dundee is composed of elected members, nominated by the local authority and is an independent body created by the Buildings (Scotland) Act. The point he makes is a fair one, and I shall look into the matter in view of the progress of legislation elsewhere.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will seek powers to obtain from brewers and distillers financial contributions for research into the question of an association between the consumption of alcohol and crimes of violence and fatal road accidents.

No, Sir.

I appreciate the difficulty of persuading the brewers and distillers to finance research into this problem, as they are so busy financing the Tory Party, but, since there is a prima facie case for a close relationship between the consumption of alcoholic liquor and crimes of violence, will my hon. Friend try to persuade a university to undertake research into this important matter?

Certain universities are studying this. I accept that there is not only a prima facie case but a well-known link in terms both of violence and of road accidents. I do not know what end product could come out of research except the advice, " Don't drive and drink ". But all those who are involved in this know that there is a strong connection.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what economic information the Government have obtained in relation to the shell fish industry.

Detailed information is published each year in my Department's Reports on the Fisheries of Scotland and in the Scottish Sea Fisheries Statistical Tables. 1969 was a record year with landings of £3·6 millions—more than double the value of the catch in 1964.

Is not it unfair for a Government to say to any industry, particularly this one, that they have enough information to take a special levy from the industry, while doing nothing in return, and providing no subsidy comparable to that accepted by the rest of the fishing industry?

As I have pointed out to him before, the hon. Gentleman has this wrong. There is no relationship between the levy on the one hand and the subsidy on the other. The shell fish industry, like any other sea fishing industry, receives benefit from the research and development work of the White Fish Authority, and it is appropriate that the industry should contribute to that authority.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will take steps to limit the number of acres which any one person can own in Scotland.

No, Sir.

Is it in accordance with Labour Party principles that a person should be able to own 200,000 acres of Scotland and more, and put most of it to almost no use? Where is there a sense of justice, efficiency and responsibility in this intolerable situation?

I am sure that this will be repeated by many of my hon. Friends and, perhaps, more pithily expressed. We have established in the Highlands area the Highlands and Islands Development Board, and measures are open to us. Also, in our proposals for feudal reform, developments which have been held back in the past by feudal superiors will be made possible by submission to the Lands Tribunal.

Will my hon. Friend say how many private landowners support the S.N.P?

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will set up a committee to investigate ways of alleviating the hardship caused by heavy freight charges to the Highlands and Islands.

I would refer the hon. Lady to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for the Western Isles (Mr. Malcolm MacMillan) on 21st April.—[Vol. 800, c. 81–2]