asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if he will make a further statement on Anglo-South African trade.

The provisional figure for our exports for the year 1970 is £333 million. This represents an increase of 14 per cent. over 1969. The provisional figure for imports is £259 million.

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on the success of the Under-Secretary of State's visit to South Africa. Will my right hon. Friend say what steps are being taken to improve this already good figure? Does he agree that British investment in such major projects in Southern Africa as the Cabora Bassa dam will be of benefit to millions of Africans?

I thank my hon. Friend for his words of commendation on the Under-Secretary of State's visit, which was extremely successful.

First, has there been any change whatsoever, since the change of Government, in the policy of supplying arms to South Africa? Secondly, what estimates has the right hon. Gentleman put in to the Government of the loss of trade in other markets if arms are supplied, in line with the Government's policy?

As and when there is any decision on the subject of arms to South Africa, the House will, of course, be informed. It is my normal habit to provide estimates of future trading movements for consideration when decisions are taken on all policies by the Government.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if he will make a further statement on his discussions with industry on plans for building a prototype nuclear-propelled merchant vessel.

Industry was consulted widely during the Department's recent study of the economics of nuclear ship propulsion.

Therefore, the view of both Her Majesty's Government and industry is that a new prototype nuclear-propelled merchant ship will not be constructed until it proves economic. Is not that rather a defeatist view which will put us behind at least five other maritime nations?

The report, which will be published in due course, comes to the conclusion which my hon. Friend has suggested. I do not think that it puts us behind the other maritime nations, because no nuclear ship at present afloat is economic as opposed to commercial.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that a number of hon. Members are less than enthusiastic about this project at a time when there are so many accidents involving merchant vessels?

The hon. Gentleman's views are noted.

Is my hon. Friend aware that I am getting rather bored hearing Answers time after time on the lines of those which have been given this afternoon to Questions put by my hon. Friends? Will my hon. Friend give us an analysis of the whole situation—how many Question, how many Answers—and let us get on with something?

I think that my hon. Friend would find it even more boring if we were to construct a nuclear ship which was uneconomic at a time when little could be gained in terms of research from such a project.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry when he expects to complete his review of the companies legislation, with particular regard to the protection of minority interests in private companies.

I cannot yet say when the review will be completed, but this question comes within it.

Whilst thanking my right hon. Friend for the assurance that this anomalous situation will be dealt with in the forthcoming study, may I urge upon him the need to give considerable consideration to the subject since it is causing acute anxiety to a large number of people in private limited companies in particular?

I assure my hon. Friend that the particular problem which he raises is well within the sphere of matters considered by us at the present stage, particularly with reference to the situation in private companies.

Does the right hon. Gentleman's Answer mean that no further action will be taken to improve financial disclosure requirements in the foreseeable future?

"Foreseeable future" is a fairly indeterminate expression. It is our intention to make a complete review of company law, and we are now engaged in this. In the light of that complete review we shall reach conclusions about any interim measures which we consider suitable.

Can my right hon. Friend say whether this review will look into the problem of a minority group controlling large companies, and see that all classes of shareholders have equal voting rights?

I can give my hon. Friend that assurance.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he will place in the Library of the House the draft conventions prepared by the European Economic Community and the European Free Trade Association on a European patent agreement.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend from drawing attention to this matter. Copies of the three draft conventions in question have been placed in the Library.

I am very much obliged to my hon. Friend for that reply. Are the Government in favour of the minimal approach for the grant of a system of law covering the grant of patents? Is my hon. Friend prepared to go even further and examine a system of law granting validity of patents?

We are always anxious to obtain greater efficiency in the law relating to patents of an international nature and all the matters referred to by my hon. Friend will be taken into consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (1) what representations have been made to him by the trade unions involved regarding the proposal to transfer certain British European Airways and British Overseas Airways Corporation routes; and what replies he sent;

A number of representations have been made and meetings held, including one with representatives of the T.U.C. General Council and of the employees' side of the Civil Aviation National Joint Council, following which statements were released to the Press.

I am grateful for that reply, although the replies which the right hon. Gentleman has sent ought to be a matter for debate in the House. Is the right hon. Gentleman not seized of the fact that many employees in these large corporations feel that the Government have filched from them something which they created to help the national effort, and not for personal gain? This action cannot help industrial relations in this industry, or create any feeling of confidence at all in the right hon. Gentleman or, indeed, in any future action that he takes, in so far as he is using the law, or intends to use it, to steal a large part of a public corporation to which so many people have devoted their lives.

The hon. Gentleman will realise that the main preoccupation of these representations has been with regard to employment problems involved. In relation to these the Government have had certain assurances from Caledonian B.U.A., and the fact that they have themselves been able to find reassurance in the development of the industry sincerely brings me to believe that the fears which might otherwise have been prevalent need not be entertained.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the tremendous concern in the trade union movement and on the back benches on this side of the House—although there may be some agreement between the Front Benches—about this issue? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that unless some kind of reassurance is quickly given, for instance about the Paris routes, the West African routes and the Caribbean routes, even more uncertainty is bound to be created?

I should like to give the assurance that I am seized of the need to make the earliest possible announcement of the complementary transfers envisaged. I seek, however, again to emphasise that the extent of these transfers, taken in relation to the total line revenue of the corporations, is small.

Is not the transfer of these routes in effect an actual transfer of money direct from the public service to private industry? Is not this what it is all about? Surely the right hon. Gentleman must account for this squandering of public money in this way?

The hon. Gentleman should perhaps remember that the Edwards Committee found that there was a need to undertake such a transfer to make viable what the Labour Party considered to be a sound solution in terms of the creation of a second force air line. The Government have done no more than to see through the means that are necessary to ensure that end.

The previous Government did not accept the Edwards Committee's recommendation on that score, and the right hon. Gentleman knows full well that we were not prepared to set up a second force by carving up B.O.A.C. and B.E.A. Will the right hon Gentleman tell the House when the transfers are likely to be effected and when the House will be told about the £6-million worth of annual route revenue that will be transferred from B.O.A.C. and B.E.A. to Caledonian B.U.A.?

My right hon. Friend has announced to the House the major item of transfer with regard to the West African routes. The complementary ones will be announced to the House as soon as it is possible to do so, and I wish to do so at the earliest possible opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether in view of the loss of employment opportunity in the motor industry, he will reconsider his policy for the issuing of industrial development certificates in the city of Birmingham area.

In considering applications for industrial development certificates in Birmingham, I shall take full account of the situation there, but the needs of the development and intermediate areas must continue to have priority.

I hope that my hon. Friend will bear in mind the need to be flexible in his approach, because there is a changing pattern in industry all the time and it is beginning to affect employment in the Birmingham district, particularly among the 50 to 60-year old workers, and thriving industries must be allowed to develop to contain this amount.

We shall certainly continue to operate this policy with the maximum degree of flexibility, but the fact remains that the unemployment figures in Birmingham are well below the national average.

We welcome the Minister's statement, but does he realise that there is deep anxiety in the development areas about what is the Government's policy about development certificates?

Yes, but the hon. Gentleman knows that the whole question of our policy on regional areas has been under close study.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if he will make a statement on the representations made to him by the Confederation of British Industry regarding industrial development certificate policy.

My right hon. Friend attended a meeting with the C.B.I. on 19th November when industrial development certificate policy, particularly in relation to small businesses, was discussed. He agreed to bear in mind the points made.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his reply, but would he not concede that there is considerable disquiet, particularly in Scotland and in other development areas, about the change in industrial development certificate policy? The growing level of redundancies in Scotland necessitates stringent control of factory development in the South-East and the Midlands, and the Government's more flexible policy is destroying the incentives to go to the development areas. Will he take urgent action to reverse the process?

As the hon. Gentleman knows, the I.D.C. exemption limit was kept reasonably low, especially in the Midlands and South-East. In Scotland the revised system of financial assistance should continue to encourage the provision of new jobs there.

The Minister referred to the needs of the development areas and intermediate areas, and to the need for strict observation of the I.D.C. practice. Can he say why it was decided to raise the square footage of industrial development certificates in advance of the review which the Government have got going? Is not there undue haste in this matter?

I do not think that there is any question of undue haste. There was a self-evident need to reduce the burden on Government and industry without significantly affecting the movement of industry to the development and intermediate areas.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what steps he has taken to secure new industrial development in West Cumberland, south of Lillyhall, in the Borough of Whitehaven and the rural district of Ennerdale and if he will make a statement.

Whitehaven Municipal Borough and Ennerdale Rural District are situated in Special Development Areas which will benefit from the measures announced on 27th October. The Department will continue to do everything possible to persuade industry of the advantages of locating there.

Does not the Minister agree that that rather nefarious reply will be wholly unacceptable to the people in West Cumberland who are unemployed? Will he take steps to publish statistics at sub-regional level showing the effect of previous policies in the development areas, before there are any other changes in such policies, because until statistics of that kind are available, how can the Minister possibly argue that the kind of coverage that we had earlier was not effective?

I hardly think it was nefarious to say:

"The Department will continue to do everything possible to persuade industry of the advantages of locating there."

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry how many firms which were planning new industrial or commercial projects, or extensions of existing ones, in the Northern region, have now indicated to him that they are reviewing their position, following the changes in financial incentives announced in October 1970; and whether any of these projects are connected with Cumberland.

About 12, including four for West Cumberland. However, these figures have little significance, since I am sure that all firms are considering the implications of the Government's proposals on investment incentives.

Is it not remarkable that the Minister can say that these figures are of little significance when one considers the persistent underlying unemployment in areas like West Cumberland? Does not this situation emphasise how right hon. Members on this side of the House were when they said that the effect of these changes in policy would be to reduce the number of jobs going to the development areas?

It is entirely premature to make a dogmatic statement like that. Some firms will be better off and some firms will be worse off, but it will be some time before any useful assessment can be made, and we quite seriously believe that the policies which we have announced will bring more employment to the hon. Member's constituency.

Is the Minister aware that unemployment is at present increasing in the development areas? Is he not also aware that it is the change in incentives that has taken place that is causing a standstill in inquiries in the regions? Why does his right hon. Friend feel that one of the first priorities in development area policy should be an increase from 5,000 sq. ft. to 10,000 sq. ft. in the footage required for industrial development certificates?

The latter part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question was dealt with by my hon. Friend the Minister for Industry when he replied to Question No. 7. We believe quite seriously that what is in the best interests of the development areas is a policy that brings to them profitable and long-term industry, and that is what we believe will be the effect of our policy.

In view of the figures which the Minister has given the House today, will he now publish figures for all the development areas so that the country as a whole can judge whether his claim that his new incentives will improve the position in fact stands up to examination, or whether, as we argued, they will damage development in the development areas?

No, Sir. As I said before, it will be some time before any useful assessment can be made of the impact of the new incentives—it is far too soon to do that—but we are watching the position closely and when there has been time for incentives to new firms to be reflected in their investment decisions, we can come back.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if he will outline the steps his Department is taking to help find new occupants for the various large modern industrial premises at present vacant on Merseyside.

The Department maintains an up-to-date register of available industrial premises in the assisted areas, including Merseyside, and provides detailed information about them to firms seeking such premises.

In view of the heavy unemployment on Merseyside, will my hon. Friend bear in mind that four large ex-heavy-engineering factories with 1·4 million sq. ft. of space are vacant, and will he undertake a special campaign both here and overseas to get these premises occupied?

I am aware of the premises to which my hon. Friend refers. I can understand his concern about unemployment, though it is perhaps slightly marginally worse in other areas. My Department is doing everything possible to bring these premises to the notice of interested firms. We have an advertising campaign, and our regional offices keep bringing the position to the attention to all who make inquiries. We have already had some inquiries from the United States and Europe.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry why the Merseyside Development Area has been allotted a low proportion of the total number of advance factories built since 1960; and what steps he is taking to ensure that this deficiency is rectified in the future.

Government advance factories are provided having regard to the circumstances of each assisted area. Private developers and the new town corporations have met a high proportion of Merseyside's needs and are continuing to do so.

As in the 1960–70 programme, out of 229 advance factories Merseyside only got 10, will my hon. Friend consider the provision of more small advance factories in that area?

We will certainly always consider it, but it is only right to say that unemployment on Merseyside has generally been marginally lower than that in other development areas with which we are concerned, and a number of factories have been supplied by sources other than the Department for Trade and Industry.

Does not this Question clearly underline the necessity for the Government to introduce a further supplementary to the advance factory programme so successfully carried out by the previous Government? Would it not resolve the problems of the hon. Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Mr. Tilney) if this policy were to be extended in this way?

With respect, I do not think that that follows, because in this area, by contrast with other areas, there is usually a fair amount of existing industrial property available at any one time.

Will the Minister inform his hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Mr. Tilney) that during the last period of Conservative Government only 46 advance factories were authorised, whereas under the last Government 220 were authorised? This is the significant difference in policy. Will not the hon. Gentleman consider the matter, and take the opportunity of announcing that there is to be a further advance programme this year?

Not at this stage. I must remind the hon. Gentleman that it is one thing to provide factories in the development areas and another to provide firms to fill them.

asked the Secretary of state for Trade and Industry if he will seek powers to compel importers of goods into Great Britain to affix labels thereon stating the specific country of origin.

My right hon. Friend already has power to require goods to be marked with information about their origin, with information about their origin, under the Trade Descriptions Act, 1968.

But they are not. Is the Minister aware that people like myself who refuse to have anything South African in the are in a quandary, because when we see the word "Foreign" on goods we do not know whether the goods are from South Africa? Perhaps he can give some advice on that point.

The advice I can give to the hon. Gentleman is that;under the Trade Descriptions Act he is entitled to ask the shopkeeper the origin of his wares, and if he is given an incorrect answer the shopkeeper can be prosecuted for misdescription.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if he will give manufacturing industry in general an assurance that, while supporting the long-term objectives of United Nations Conference on Trade and Development, he will under no circumstances allow the interests of sections of British industry to be prejudiced in the short term.

In deciding on action to support the objectives of the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development we would naturally take full account of the interests of United Kingdom industry.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I am grateful for that assurance, particularly within the context of the textile industry, which is particularly brought to bear on Britain under the terms of U.N.C.T.A.D.

I thank my hon. Friend for his observation. It is true that the position of most textiles has been reserved under the proposals made by this country, in relation to the scheme. Certain textile products, however, are included within the preference arrangements.

I in no way decry the need to help under-developed nations, but would the right hon. Gentleman, in addition to looking at the problems of textiles, look at the problems of the cordage industry? I understand that if complete freedom is given to under-developed nations, our cordage industry will be completely unable to stand up against their competition in view of the extremely low wages that are paid by certain of them.

We have that point in mind. We have reserved the right to withdraw or modify any preference granted under the scheme in the event of severe injury to our industry. I emphasise, however, that the whole purpose of the scheme, which we have consistently backed, is to help under-developed countries, and we would seek to do that.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he will consult the appropriate trade unions concerning his policy on the importation of coal.

I am always ready to hear their views on this subject.

Why was the Minister so shy about making a statement on this very important issue? Can he tell the House what he is doing about the shortage of manpower in the coal mining industry and about the crisis of morale that exists in it at present?

As to the first part of the hon. Member's supplementary question, as he knows, the information was given during the course of the Second Reading debate, when hon. Members had ample time to discuss it. The second part of his supplementary is another question.

Does not the Minister agree that it is not conducive to restoring morale to threaten an industry with the hiving off of the profitable parts?

That, too, is another question.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what discussions he has had with the coal and steel industry about future coal imports.

This has frequently been discussed with the two industries.

Will the hon. Gentleman answer some questions for a change? This is a very important matter. Are sufficient types of coal available to the steel industry? What is the difference in price between imported coal and British coal?

I have consulted both the National Coal Board and the major users about coal imports. The question of price is a matter for whoever imports the coal.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that we might have cause belatedly to thank him for this because he is at least showing British industry just how cheap British coal is?

There is this other point on the question of morale. It would have been far worse to have allowed to develop a bigger gap between supply and demand both this winter and the next.

If the hon. Gentleman is consulting the National Coal Board and the users, why not systematically consult the trade unions on matters as important as this?

As I said earlier, I am very ready to talk to the trade unions about this.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what is the commercial advantage to the United Kingdom of importing horticultural produce already in over-supply in exchange for horticultural equipment that will further increase horticultural production in the supplying countries of Eastern Europe.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what is the commercial advantage to the United Kingdom of importing horticultural produce already in over-supply in exchange for horticultural equipment that will further increase horticultural production in the supplying countries of Eastern Europe.

I think it safe to assume that this trade would not take place unless the traders concerned in this country, both as exporters and as importers, found it to their commercial advantage.

In view of the situation in cucumbers last year—[Laughter.] It is all very well for hon. Members opposite to laugh, but they drew their salaries while a great many British horticulturists did not draw any money last year. In view of the cucumber situation last year, which may not have been profitable to importers, will my right hon. Friend have urgent consultations with the market in order to get imports phased in at a proper rate, so that if these imports have to come in they may at least be profitable, as he has indicated, and not damage the home trade?

There is intensive discussion with the industries concerned, and with horticulture in particular, on these issues. However, the impact of this situation should not be exaggerated. The horticultural element is very small in the kind of arrangements which are entered into, particularly with Eastern European countries.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that, in the negotiations which he says took place, there was strong feeling among farming interests that the treaty was disadvantageous to farming generally? If that is the case, surely there is an argument that the farming interests were not as happy about this matter as he suggests.

I take it that my hon. Friend refers to the arrangements made with Romania. I can well understand that there was some dissatisfaction, but the balance of the matter must be considered as well. The export value contract was very considerable indeed.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that, whatever the effect of this agreement upon cucumber growers, the effect of going into the Common Market will be disastrous to them?

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what proportion of the work undertaken at the Aldermaston Atomic Weapons Research Establishment in the financial years 196768, 1968–69 and 1969–70 was attributable to civil projects.

The proportion of total expenditure at A.W.R.E. Aldermaston attributable to civil work during the past three years is:—

In view of the relatively low economic growth rate in this country, would not the hon. Gentleman agree that there is urgent need to transfer a far higher proportion of our total research and development capacity to civil projects?

There may be a need for more research to be done, but the question at issue is whether civil research of this sort should be funded by the Government or industry.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if he will give a general direction to the East Midlands Gas Board to appoint agents in areas not covered by gas showrooms to facilitate payment of accounts.

No, Sir. This is a matter for the Board.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, in areas not covered by gas showrooms, the lower-paid and pensioners have considerable difficulty in the payment of their accounts and incur extra cost in doing so? Is he aware that the East Midlands Electricity Board appoints agents in certain areas not covered by its showrooms?

I suggest that the hon. Gentleman should write to the Chairman of the Board because this is not a matter for which the Government are responsible.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what consideration he has given to improving competition in banking; and if he will make a statement.

As my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer said on 15th December, the matter will be kept under review.

Is not the Government policy of promoting maximum competition as the solution to all our problems clearly seen to be so much humbug when they refuse to act when there is a clear abuse of monopoly power by the clearing banks? Or is it that they see these clearing banks as lame ducks who cannot stand on their own two feet?

The hon. Gentleman is aware—none better—of the intricacies of this problem. The apparent simplicity of his supplementary question conceals extremely difficult matters. The truth is that the relationship with the banks who operate within the framework of this cartel is a very embracing one and covers many items other than the simple question of customer relationship.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what action he is taking to assist the development of self-destroying plastic in the United Kingdom; and if he will make a statement.

I am not contemplating the support of projects associated with a self-destroying or degradable plastic at present. There are serious difficulties about plastics which degrade and I shall need to be satisfied that any such project has a good chance of practical applications.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this attitude of Ministers is causing considerable concern because, unless this kind of plastic is developed, plastic itself will become a major pollution problem in the near future? Can he say whether, and, if so, how soon, he is likely to be satisfied about these substances so that he can promote a research and development contract which will enable this project to become commercially viable as soon as possible?

The difficulty is that many foodstuffs are packaged in plastic containers and if they were to degrade before their time it might cause serious pollution to the foodstuffs. There is also the problem that sunlight degradation of plastics is unlikely to affect any plastic except that exposed to sunlight on the top of a refuse tip. There are serious objections to the basic principle underlying this type of research.

This is a serious problem and I ask my hon. Friend to consider it very carefully because, if he went to sea occasionally, like the Prime Minister, he would see in the sea an enormous number of plastic containers which come out of the sewers and down the rivers into the sea. What does he intend to do about the sea becoming a floating plastic container in the next 10 years?

While agreeing that the sea is full of all sorts of undesirable things, I do not believe that the answer lies in doing research into the degradation of plastics by ultraviolet light in the present state of knowledge of the subject. We have to have regard to the dangers which would arise to those who ate food out of such plastic containers.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether the United Kingdom will take the initiative in proposing at the next European Free Trade Association Council meeting that further non-tariff barriers should be removed.

E.F.T.A. is currently engaged in a great deal of useful work on the removal of non-tariff barriers, particularly in the technical field. I do not consider that any additional stimulus is needed at the present time.

I thank my hon. Friend for his reply, but will he please say whether anything is being done about the control and marking of precious metals?

A draft agreement on the control and marking of articles of precious metals is in the process of being drawn up.

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman should have said that no stimulus is required at present. This is not just a matter of the effect on non-tariff barriers. Is not he aware of the danger of restrictive trade legislation emanating from the United States, which has been temporarily suppressed but which might emerge again? Would it not be a good thing if the Government took the initiative proposed in U.N.C.T.A.D. to start a worldwide discussion on the abolition of non-tariff barriers, therefore getting away from the idea of the United States and probably other countries considering restrictive legislation?

The right hon. Gentleman is right to draw attention to the dangers of restrictive legislation in the United States, which has caused Her Majesty's Government very great concern. Our view has been expressed in a number of ways.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he will state the number of professional staff and the number of clerical staff, respectively, employed in the Secretariat of the European Free Trade Association in Geneva on the last available date.

The E.F.T.A. Secretariat currently employs 46 staff in the higher and professional grades and a further 46 in the general service grade.

Is that not an object lesson in achieving a wider home market for Britain at relatively low cost? What is the equivalent number of people employed at the E.E.C. at Brussels?

I should like to say how very efficiently this Secretariat does its job, but I warn the House that a straight comparison with the E.E.C. Commission is entirely misleading, because E.F.T.A. is merely a secretariat, whereas the E.E.C. Commission has policy-making and regulating functions also.

Is not the real comparison that we shall have some control over E.F.T.A. but we shall have no control whatsoever over the E.E.C. Secretariat and will be in the hands of other people deciding policies on behalf of Britain?

I do not accept that. It is well known that we shall have an opportunity to make our views felt.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what attempts are being made further to increase the membership of the European Free Trade Association.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what attempts are being made to enlarge the membership of the European Free Trade Association.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what proposals he has for the enlargement of the membership of the European Free Trade Association.

No attempts are at present being made to enlarge E.F.T.A. The Stockholm Convention makes provision for any State, which so wishes, to apply for membership.

Why are no steps being taken to enlarge E.F.T.A. and extend its activities? Would not it be infinitely better for Britain if we were to enlarge E.F.T.A. rather than commit ourselves to spending about 23 per cent. of the Common Market budget by 1980? Would it not be better to undertake the extension of E.F.T.A. rather than negotiate capitulation terms with the Common Market countries?

This is entirely a matter of debate, and we shall be debating it later this week, anyway. I emphasise that there is absolutely nothing to stop any country, if it so wishes, from applying for membership, but the initiative must come from the country which wishes to join.

As the Minister has said that E.F.T.A. is a very useful organisation, and as it certainly does not carry the unpopularity in Britain that entry into the Common Market does, not only on economic grounds but on political and military grounds as well, should not the hon. Gentleman take some initiative and try to extend and expand the E.F.T.A. organisation, not only in the interests of Britain but also in the interests of the existing E.F.T.A. members?

I understand the hon. Lady's point of view, which is one point of view on this argument. I reiterate that there is nothing to stop a country from applying for membership. It is not for us at this stage to take any initiative to try to persuade a country to take a course of action which it should take for itself.

In so far as we are members of E.F.T.A., do we not as a nation have a right to make recommendations to enlarge it? Are not the rather dramatic and frightening figures which the Minister gave in reply to the hon. Member for Banbury (Mr. Marten) something which the nation ought to know? The big difference is that we are doing very well with E.F.T.A. but that there is a grave danger of our being totally submerged under bureacracy if we go into the E.E.C.

I thought that I was extremely careful not to give any dangerous figures to my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury. I understand the hon. Gentleman's point of view, but it does not take us any further than the fact that E.F.T.A. is a working organisation and there is the opportunity for other countries to apply to be members of it, if they so wish.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and industry what was the total value of United Kingdom exports to other members of the European Free Trade Association in the first nine months of 1970.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry by what percentage exports from the United Kingdom to each of the members of the European Free Trade Association increased in the first nine months of 1970.

Since the Answer contains some detailed figures, I will circulate these in the OFFICIAL REPORT. Exports to E.F.T.A. countries in the first nine months of 1970 were £938 million, an increase of 18 per cent. over the corresponding period of 1969.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the figures which he quoted are extremely important in terms of our total foreign trade? Would he agree that it would be asinine in any way adversely to affect this part of Britain's foreign trade? Are all our E.F.T.A. partners satisfied with the quality of our consultation with them about the progress of Britain's negotiations to join the Community?

As far as I am aware, there is no dissatisfaction among our E.F.T.A. partners. I have visited a number of them in Stockholm and discussed this problem with them. They are very pleased with the way in which they have been kept informed on the progress of these negotiations and many of them are negotiating in what they are hoping will be fruitful discussions.

Is not this 18 per cent. increase in our exports to E.F.T.A. very much in line with the increase in our exports to the Common Market countries? That being so, what steps are the Government taking to study the implications of a wider free trade area between the Six and the Seven, rather than this dubious venture to try to get into the Community?

What my hon. Friend says is correct. There has been a similar growth in exports to the E.E.C. countries. However, my hon. Friend should understand that there is no reason to suppose that some sort of wider European E.F.T.A. is likely to be any more negotiable now than it was when E.F.T.A. was originally formed.

Would the hon. Gentleman at least give an assurance that Her Majesty's Government will not reach any arrangement with the E.E.C. which would involve erecting new trade barriers against the present members of E.F.T.A.?

The right hon. Gentleman has been long enough in the House to realise that I could not possibly give an assurance of that nature.

Is it not a fact that there are a number of members of E.F.T.A. who are so concerned to have close consultations not only with ourselves but with the members of the E.E.C. that they are applying to join the Community?

My hon. Friend is absolutely right.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the figures he has given demonstrate that E.F.T.A. represents our major foothold in Europe? Will not this be in jeopardy if we go ahead with our Common Market entry application?

I do not believe that one can draw that sort of conclusion from the figures I have given. Nor are the consequences which the hon. Gentleman foretells likely.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what is the total value of trade between the European Free Trade Association and Eastern Europe for the last available year.

In 1969 exports of the European Free Trade Area to Eastern Europe were 1,850 million dollars f.o.b. and imports from Eastern Europe were 2,010 million dollars c.i.f.

Would the hon. Gentleman agree that there are substantial markets as yet untapped in Eastern Europe? As he said that E.F.T.A. is obviously a useful instrument for allowing them to be tapped, may I ask him to say what discussions there have been between ourselves and the Common Market countries about protecting this position should we enter the Community?

I entirely agree that trade with Eastern Europe has great possibilities for the future. However, I do not think there is anything in our discussions with the E.E.C. which is necessarily inconsistent with that.

Have we had any discussions with the Soviet Union in the recent trade talks about the effect of their signing a treaty with West Germany and the effect that that is likely to have on our trade with Eastern Europe? Is he aware that this is an important matter which seems bound to affect our trade with Eastern Europe, unless we take energetic steps to deal with it?

The discussions with the Soviet Union in the last week have been confidential beyond what was put out in the communiqué. Regarding the hon. Lady's supplementary question about our relationship with Eastern Europe, I suggest that she tables a Question to my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary.

Why is one figure quoted f.o.b. and the other c.i.f.?

If my hon. Friend would care to write to me about that, I will give him a full and, I hope, thoroughly satisfactory answer.

Shall we have a statement in the House about the talks with Mr. Kirillin so that we may be kept informed?

Not at this stage.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry how many submissions have been made under the complaints procedure of Article 31 of the Convention of the European Free Trade Association for each year since it was formed.

Article 31 of the E.F.T.A. Convention has been invoked on four occasions: by Austria against Portugal in 1962, by Denmark against Austria in 1963, and by Norway and Denmark against the United Kingdom in 1965 and 1966 respectively.

I thank my hon. Friend for that Answer. In view of the very small number of complaints, does he believe that this is an effective article?

I believe that it is an effective and useful article. I think that all these cases have been resolved to the satisfaction of the countries concerned.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he will introduce legislation to require vendors of motor vehicles to provide written particulars to purchasers of their rights under the Sale of Goods Act, 1893.

No, Sir. The application of this Act to a specific transaction depends too heavily on the particular circumstances for such a requirement to be helpful to the ordinary purchaser.

Is the Minister aware that vast numbers of car buyers, especially buyers of secondhand cars, unwittingly give away their Sale of Goods Act rights in return for something much less, under spurious guarantees or warranties? Will the Government undertake to promote legislation to deal with this very common problem?

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman accepts that if there is legislation it should be legislation to deal with the problem as a whole and not just in relation to motor cars. Legislation in this Session is still possible, but I cannot yet make a firm promise of that.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if, in view of the unfulfilled economic demand for more international and intercontinental air services, he will permit operators to meet the requirements for air services of manufacturers and others engaged in commerce particularly in and around Glasgow; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

It is a matter for the commercial judgment of the airlines whether to add to the range of services already offered.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise how keenly Glasgow business men want direct services with their trading points in Western Europe? Surely that important demand is not to be settled merely by the existing air services, because there is now a third group of people who are ready to provide services of this nature?

I understand the hon. Gentleman's point of view; but this Government, like our predecessors, regard the rôles of Glasgow and Prestwick Airports as complementary. The major function of Glasgow Airport is to cater for short and medium-haul traffic.

On a point of order. I beg to give notice that I shall pursue this matter on the Adjournment. It is a very important business matter and the hon. Gentleman—

Order. The hon. Gentleman must give notice in the conventional manner.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if he will ban the take-off and landing of charter jet flights in Great Britain between the hours of 11 p.m. and 6 a.m.

No, Sir.

Does my hon. Friend recognise the severe hardship which has to be endured by those living underneath the flight paths and the ever-increasing amount of night jet traffic? Has he no intentions of restricting night jet traffic?

I recognise this very well. I also recognise the vigour with which my hon. Friend has pursued this matter on behalf of his constituents. He will understand that our powers are very limited. We have powers over aerodromes managed by the British Airports Authority but not over those operated by local authorities, as in this case. I know that Luton Corporation is conducting inquiries into noise levels, and I hope that something that will be of satisfaction, not only to the residents of my hon. Friend's constituency, but also to those who want to travel by air, will be achieved fairly soon.

Is my hon. Friend aware of the very difficult situation which has been created in Hertfordshire by the action of Luton Corporation? Does my hon. Friend realise that countless people are being kept awake night after night by package tours? Will my hon. Friend take powers to do something about it, because we are the Government and it is our duty to do it?

I understand that only too well. I am sure that Luton Corporation understands it only too well also. My hon. Friend will understand that we must maintain a balance between the question of aircraft noise, which is a very difficult problem, and the necessity of enabling people to fly by aeroplane.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if he will make a statement on the future of the Aldermaston Project for the Application of Computers to Engineering.

The need to continue the project at the previous level of Government support is not now apparent and its future must increasingly depend on the extent of its financial support from industry.

That Answer will cause great concern at Aldermaston. Is the hon. Gentleman aware that his reply to Question No. 17, in which he said that activities carried on by public bodies which could be carried on by private enterprise should be hived off, will give extreme cause for concern to the members of the staff at Aldermaston working on this project?

The project has done valuable work in the past, but there are increasingly more commercial concerns now doing the same sort of work. There is no reason why industry should not pay for this work, whether it is carried on in the private or in the public sector.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry on how many bodies subject to his appointment he has appointed persons capable of representing consumers interests.

I would refer the hon. Member to the replies which I gave to the right hon. Member for Aberavon (Mr. John Morris) on 11th and 14th December, 1970, about the consumer consultative bodies to which we appoint members.—[Vol. 808, c. 207–8 and 242.]

Are there not a number of bodies where the representation has been made direct to the Consumer Council and a number of bodies where the representation has been made in consultation with the Consumer Council? Bearing this in mind, was it not cheeseparing nonsense to get rid of this worth-while body?

The only consumer bodies to which the Department makes appointments are in relation to the four nationalised industries on the coal, gas, electricity and iron and steel consumer councils.

Would the Minister give an assurance that when the profitable parts of nationalised industries are hived off, a clause will be inserted insisting that the hived-off parts have consumer representation on them?

It is not normal to have Consumer Council representation on private enterprise bodies.

Does my hon. Friend agree that the best way to protect the consumer interest is to encourage competition?

I am grateful to my hon. and gallant Friend for drawing attention to the vital part which competition plays in protecting the consumer. That is probably of far greater importance than any effort the Government can make in this sphere.

Would the hon. Gentleman at least undertake, as the decision on the Consumer Council appears to be irrevocable, to consult his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment about the possibility of encouraging local authorities to undertake or sponsor this sort of work in a much more devolved fashion throughout the country?

At the local level there are both weights and measures inspectors and citizens' advice bureaux and they play a valuable part in this repect.

Would the hon. Gentleman make a statement or publish a White Paper indicating the Government's view on the protection of the consumer because, candidly, the answers which he has been giving about competition meeting this need simply do not apply to the majority of consumer problems, both nationally and locally? May we have an authoritative statement from him that can be debated in the House?

I can never understand why the right hon. Gentleman constantly derides the value of competition, even if he does not believe in it in the way that we do.