asked the Secretary of State for Wales what study he has made of drug taking in Welsh schools.

Government Departments, the police and local authorities are making a careful study of the drug problem amongst young people and collectively considering the most effective measures of control.

On his visits to Welsh schools has the Secretary of State been able to form any opinion whether there should be inspection for evidence of drug taking?

There have been certain instances of drug taking among school children. I have no reason to believe that it is widespread in Welsh schools. However, schools in Wales certainly reflect the concern of society in general at the misuse of drugs, and during courses on health education pupils are being made aware of the dangers of drugs.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what steps he has taken to ensure that the interests of Wales are taken care of in discussions about the future of regional development policies in an enlarged European Economic Community, including the United Kingdom.

I can assure my hon. Friend that the interests of Wales and of the other regions are very much in mind in out negotiations to enter the E.E.C.

I am grateful to my right hon. and learned Friend for that reply. Has he noted that the Government's declared policy for regional development does not conflict in any way with the regulations or the practice at present in force in the European Economic Community? Does he agree that there can be very bright prospects indeed for Wales from a development of community financing for regional development?

Yes. The Government believe that their existing policies are not incompatible with the Treaty of Rome. There have been no specific moves by the Six towards a harmonisation of their regional policies. As to the latter part of my hon. Friend's question, I agree that this would indeed be the case. The Government believe that entry could be beneficial for all regions in the United Kingdom.

In view of the increase in the number of factory closures in Wales and the decrease in the number of applications for new factories, how does the Secretary of State propose to protect the best interests of Wales in the matter of industrial development, whether Britain is inside or outside the Common Market?

The Question refers to the Common Market. As the hon. Gentleman will appreciate, the Treaty of Rome makes specific provisions for countries to make assistance available for regional development.

What specific steps have been taken by the Secretary of State's Department to ascertain the problems in agriculture and industry in Wales and how many members of his Department have been to similar parts of Europe to undertake a proper examination, as opposed to giving us loose undertakings about protection?

My Department is fully consulted during these negotiations in all matters which might affect Wales.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales on what evidence he has decided that the people of Wales have rejected the proposal to establish a Mid-Wales Rural Development Board.

The decision not to proceed with the establishment of a rural development board for Mid-Wales was made on the evidence of the widespread opposition to the proposals.

How does the Minister of State account for the fact that no Member for Mid-Wales was returned to his side of the House? Surely this leaves him with no mandate to abandon this scheme? Is he aware of the concern now being expressed by farmers in the North Pennines area at the proposed abolition of that Board?

When I received the hon. Gentleman's election address in June I noticed that it contained no mention of a Mid-Wales Rural Development Board.

Is the Minister of State aware that he made enough noise about the Mid-Wales Rural Development Board? He made it an issue, and his party was completely rejected in Wales.

I am surprised that the right hon. Gentleman returns to the attack, having been heavily defeated on this issue by the vast amount of opposition which came from rural Mid-Wales.

Does the Minister of State appreciate that a few days ago the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food gave as the main reason for abandoning the Pennines Board the fact that it exercised compulsory powers? Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate also that those powers were minimal and that if that was the real reason the Government could easily have changed the position by legislation?

At the inquiry at Aberystwith in the hon. Gentleman's own constituency, there were 133 objectors, four representing local authorities and 10 other organisations and various other agricultural associations. The opposition was intense.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what action is being taken by the Forestry Commission to control the fox problem in central Wales.

The Forestry Commission is keeping down foxes on its land, in the interests of its neighbours, both by direct action and in co-operation with fox destruction societies, to which it subscribes.

Could the Minister say how much the Forestry Commission contributes towards local fox destruction societies in Brecon and Radnor?

The Commission itself in the last 12 months spent directly £6,500 and the selected societies received 2s. per fox destroyed. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to have further information, I shall be happy to provide it.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what plans he has to make an official visit to Carmarthen-shire in the near future.

I have arranged to meet the Carmarthen County Council on Friday, 7th May.

When the Secretary of State comes to Carmarthenshire he will hear that in my constituency three advance factories are now standing empty and that no inquiries at all have been received. In view of this fact and the growing crisis of confidence in the Conservative Government's regional development policy, could the Secretary of State say what action he is taking in trying to persuade his colleagues to restore the level of investment allowances to what they were before the Chancellor of the Exchequer so drastically devalued them?

I fully appreciate that concern has been expressed in Carmarthenshire, and I shall be meeting a deputation from the Carmarthenshire Joint Industrial Development Committee in Cardiff on 5th March to discuss these. problems.

Will the Secretary of State look not only at Carmarthenshire but also at the other regions of Wales? Will he pay some attention to the meeting organised by the North-Eastern Development Council, to be held in London on Wednesday next, to protest about the impact of the Government's as yet undefined regional policy? Will he look at the report in this morning's Times: By any standards this will be an impressive regional gathering. The initiative came from the North-East Development Council and the chairmen and chief executives of the Scottish Council, the Development Corporation of Wales, the North-West Industrial Development Association and the Cumberland Development Council will put their views. This represents collectively the views of some 18 million people.

All I can say in answer to that rather long supplementary question is that I shall certainly pay attention to all the views which are expressed.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many letters he has received from individuals and organisations in Wales protesting against the Government's intention of imposing charges for admission to museums.

One, in addition to representations from the Council of the National Museums of Wales.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that answer. Since it seems that the moneys which will accrue from these charges will be used not to improve facilities but rather to hand out tax reductions to rich taxpayers in the United Kingdom, and since the overwhelming majority of citizens of Wales are not in the category of rich taxpayers, could he urge his colleagues to exempt the whole of Wales from the imposition of these mean and petty charges?

No, Sir. Attention is being given to the needs of special categories such as children, students and regular visitors, and to safeguarding the educational functions of the museums and galleries. The particular circumstances of the National Museum of Wales are being taken into account in the present consultations.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what steps he is taking to improve the medical staffing position in casualty units in South Wales hospitals.

Hospital authorities, which are responsible, are doing their best to fill vacant posts. The problem of staffing casualty units is widespread in England and Wales, and discussions are currently taking place with the profession on means of improving the position.

In his answer the hon. Gentleman refrained from saying what steps he is taking to improve the position. I speak particularly of the Morriston Hospital in Swansea and would ask him to restore the casualty unit service to that hospital, which serves the greater part of my constituency in the Swansea Valley. One of the factors that deter recruiting of doctors is the provision of substandard accommodation. In Morriston and other hospitals accommodation should be brought up to modern standards, and the Secretary of State should increase the financial allocation to the Glantawe hospital and other boards so that they may be able to provide this accommodation and to recruit doctors.

I understand the hon. Gentleman's anxiety about this problem, which I admitted in my answer: namely, the difficulty of obtaining sufficient staff for casualty units. On Friday night I met the chairmen of the hospital management committees of Wales, including a member from the hon. Gentleman's area. This problem is very much under review by the hospital board.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this problem causes great concern throughout the whole of Wales? Will he now reconsider the decision in regard to the Llwynypia Hospital in my constituency since his decision is causing great concern in Llwynypia itself?

With respect to the hon. Gentleman, whose anxiety I understand, the whole problem in Llwynypia Hospital and many other hospitals, not only in Wales but also in England, is the difficulty of attracting staff for these casualty units.

At the risk of treading on the toes of my right hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff, West (Mr. George Thomas), could the Minister make sure that not too many new jobs are created immediately around the teaching hospital in Cardiff? It is being said by other hospitals in Wales that it is extremely difficult to attract new housemen to areas outside Cardiff because of the large number of jobs available near the teaching hospital.

That is another question, but I am quite prepared to look into it.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what inquiries he has had as to the present and future potential of the South Wales ports; and if he will make a statement.

None, Sir. The five South Wales ports are currently operating profitably and I have every confidence that their future potential will be exploited to the best advantage.

Does that Answer not show the bungling incompetence and lack of liaison between Ministers of the Crown? May I ask whether the Secretary of State for the Environment did not defer to the Secretary of State's opinion prior to sanctioning the Bristol West Dock Development Scheme? Is this not incomprehensible in view of the figures available for Swansea itself, where the tonnage through the port in four years has increased from 6 million to over 8 million at the end of last year, and is the Secretary of State for Wales not a till small voice in the Cabinet, whereas in the country he is a strident factor in the Tory Party?

I do not know why the hon. Gentleman is so gloomy. The South Wales ports have had their best year since 1954. I have no reason to doubt the ability of the South Wales Docks to withstand competition from wherever it comes.

In view of the long, creditable and sustained efforts of these ports to build up alternative cargoes following the decline in coal shipments, will the Secretary of State give every help and encouragement to the British Transport Dock Board to extend and improve the facilities and equipment at these ports?

Yes, certainly. The port director and his staff, all of whom I have met, have shown themselves to be fully alive to all the possibilities of encouraging increased usage in the ports, and I have no doubt that the ports have a good future.

Will the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that the Government's action in authorising the port of Bristol's major expansion scheme has placed all the South Wales ports in jeopardy? Will he appreciate that all this empty talk of competition means nothing since we are only a tiny island and there is plenty of competition for our ports from the Rotterdams of this world?

To say that it places all the South Wales ports in jeopardy is quite wrong. The best judge is the British Transport Port Board, which does not appear to be unduly worried about the prospects of competition.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I give notice that I propose to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he now expects the findings of the Court of Inquiry into the Defence Department's proposal to locate an artillery range at Royal Air Force, Pembrey, will be made public; and whether, in considering the findings, he will take into account the recommendations of the Roskill Commission.

The Inspector's findings and the Government's views will be made public after they have been fully considered. I shall take all relevant factors into account.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend bring to the attention of his right hon. Friends the Secretaries of State for Defence, for the Environment and for Trade and Industry the strong feelings not only of Welshmen but of perhaps more enlightened Englishmen against the proposed take-over of virtually the whole of Carmarthen Bay for an artillery range? Will he also take into account the fact that the air traffic control arguments advanced for moving the artillery range from Shoeburyness to Pembrey are not insuperable?

As I said to my hon. Friend, all relevant factors will be taken into account.

May I again press the right hon. and learned Gentleman to publish this report immediately? May I ask him to take a leaf out of the book of the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, who has seen fit to grant the people of Buckinghamshire and Essex the opportunity to discuss the Roskill Commission's Report? Will the Minister give the people of Carmarthen a similar opportunity to discuss this report?

As I have said, the report will be published as soon as it has been fully considered by the Government.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales, having regard to the provision of Regulations 11(b) of the Motor Vehicles (Competition and Trials) Regulations, 1969, whether he will consider extending these regulations to make it obligatory for the Royal Automobile Club, before authorising an event under these regulations, to consult with highway authorities for the area over which the route or event lies.

No, Sir. The present arrangements are considered adequate.

Is the Secretary of State aware that in the early hours of 23rd November last year a motor club turned East Flintshire villages into motorised bedlam, endangering life and limb and shattering peace and quiet? Will he act with speedy decision to limit the ill-effects of these selfish sorties?

Yes, Sir. I am aware of the complaints made last year about a rally organised by a particular motor club. These were investigated by the Royal Automobile Club, and I under- stand that measures have been taken to avoid a recurrence.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he proposes to announce the result of the inquiry into the Central Flintshire Water Board's Dee Extraction Scheme.

A reply will be sent to the Central Flintshire Water Board as soon as possible.

Would not the Secretary of State agree that it is a miserable state of affairs when a Cheshire authority can extract water from the Dee but a Flintshire authority cannot? Is he not also aware that water rates in my constituency are rocketing up because we have to buy water from a Cheshire authority which extracts that water from the Dee? Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman end his vacillating and indecisive attitude and make a decision on this important matter?

As I have said, complex engineering and financial questions are involved—

That is not good enough.

—and the need for consultation inevitably causes some delay in reaching a decision, especially when capital expenditure is in the region of £1.8 million.

In view of the indecisive reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek an early opportunity of raising the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if, as a result of his consideration of transport questions in Wales, he will take steps to ensure an integrated and continuing public transport system in Wales.

Close liaison already exists betwen my office and the other various interests concerned to ensure that full consideration is given to meeting the essential public transport needs of Wales.

The Secretary of State is very careful to avoid any specific commitment or specific answer to my question, which asks what steps he will take. Would the right hon. and learned Gentleman agree that unless he shows more urgency and less complacency, there will be neither an integrated nor a continuing public transport system in Wales?

The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that, by Statutes passed by the previous Government, the National Bus Company and British Railways have a statutory duty to provide co-ordinated services. As to the second part of the hon. Gentleman's question, no rail passenger services will be withdrawn in Wales without a most careful inquiry into all social and economic implications. As for buses, local authorities have powers to keep essential bus services running in rural areas.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware of the interest aroused in Wales by the proposal to site the new national airport on Severn-side? Will he use his position in the Cabinet to ensure that this imaginative and visionary proposal is given consideration at the highest level?

I assure my hon. Friend that I shall give consideration to what he has said.

Will the Secretary of State say that the Cambrian railway, which has been threatened by his right hon. Friend with the withdrawal of grant at the end of this year, can be assured of an existence? If there is an inquiry, as I presume there will be, will the right hon. Gentleman and his Department give evidence in support of a stronger communications system?

As to the last part of the right hon. Gentleman's question, he knows that a Minister of the Crown could not possibly give evidence to such an inquiry. The statutory procedure, which the right hon. Gentleman knows well, is that there will be a public hearing by the Transport Users Consultative Committee, which will then report to the Minister on the hardship which closure would cause. There will be consultation with the Welsh Council about social and economic aspects, and there will be consultation with me. It would be wholly inappropriate for me to give evidence.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what representations he has recived from Wales in respect of the financial difficulties currently experienced by Welsh rural bus operators; and what replies he has sent.

Much concern has been expressed about the future of many of the rural bus services in Wales. I have drawn the attention of local authorities to the statutory provisions which enable them, with Government help to assist the operators. My officials have also had a number of meetings with local authorities at which there have been full discussions of the steps being taken to overcome the immediate difficulties.

Does not the Secretary of State appreciate that most rural bus operators in Wales have suffered a very serious decline in custom over the last 12 months, that the losses are increasing, and that the amount of grant they are asking for is becoming much more considerable? Although the provisions of Section 34 were realistic in 1968, they are not realistic now. Will the Government pay a larger share of the grant?

This is a very complicated matter which involves the finances of the National Bus Company and its ability to pay its way, and the decision of that company to ask local authorities to give assistance to rural buses. I can say that there is no prospect of increasing the direct Government contribution above 50 per cent., which is the percentage decided upon by the Labour Party when the arrangements were embodied in the Transport Act, 1968.

Would the Secretary of State not agree that the policy of ever-increasing subsidies from central Government for rural bus services can at best be only an interim solution, and that a long-term solution must be found by a greater and more flexible use of private transport in rural areas accompanied by tax concessions, the easing of various regulation, and so on?

These are matters which must be considered. Happily, this is a period in which we can get down to details and consider the future very carefully. Steps are afoot for that to be done.

Would not the Secretary of State take into account that any attempt to give further tax concessions to private transport would rebound and make far more difficult the prospects of maintaining a public transport system by rail or bus?

If private transport could provide a viable service, I am sure that it would command the support of everyone in the House.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what changes he proposes in framing his future new road construction programmes to facilitate the further growth of the tourist industry in the Principality.

The needs of tourism are already taken into account in the road programme and I shall continue to bear these needs in mind when I add further schemes to the programme.

While in the past emphasis has quite properly usually been given to industrial need, does not my right hon. and learned Friend feel that now in some parts of the Principality there would seem to be a case for greater emphasis on the needs of tourism as a major growth industry?

I agree that tourism is a major growth industry. It is not easy to distinguish the needs of tourism from those of other industries, but I believe that our strategy of giving first priority to the east-west routes across the south and the north of Wales will help the main tourist centres.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what discussions he has had with building societies, local authorities and other agencies in Wales to expedite the growth of home ownership; and if he will make a statement.

The Government have a number of possible ways of en- couraging the growth of home ownership under examination but I am not in a position to make a statement today.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend take account of the fact there would appear to be in different parts of Wales a somewhat patchwork proportion of private and public housing? In view of the desirability of making home ownership available on an ever-increasing scale, will my right hon. and learned Friend look at this question with some urgency?

Yes, Sir. I think that this is a very important matter. A range of ideas is being considered, and a statement will be made in due course. It is interesting that Wales is primarily a country of owner-occupiers, with 55 per cent. of houses being owner-occupied.

Whatever the desirability of owner-occupation in Wales or anywhere else, does the right hon. and learned Gentleman recognise that with the new regional policy of this Government, with Wales being overtaken by a flood of redundancies, with its being in general a low wage area, and with poverty-stricken local authorities not being helped by the Government, this is hardly likely to give any meaning to the Tory Party's commitment to increase owner-occupation?

I cannot agree with what the hon. Gentleman has said.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what was the number of firms which inquired about industrial sites in Wales as a result of the Enterprise Wales Exhibition at the Hilton Hotel in November, jointly sponsored by his Department.

I understand from the Development Corporation for Wales that 20 firms made definite inquiries at the exhibition itself. It is not possible to say how many of the inquiries received since that date were a direct result of the exhibition.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that at a time when industrial inquiries in Wales are at their lowest for three years, when redundancies are averaging 1,000 per month, and when unemployment, since this Government have been in power, has increased by 28 per cent., the figure of 20 inquiries at a luxurious and probably expensive exhibition was certainly inadequate and is equally a manifestation of the fact that the industrialists of Britain are dissatisfied with the regional development policy and are not now interested in coming to Wales as a result of 18th June?

The Government fully support the work of the Development Corporation. As I announced last Friday, we intend to continue Government support for it.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman now tell me why the Development Corporation for Wales is very heavily represented at the protest meeting to be held next Wednesday by all the regional councils against this Government's regional policies?

I met the Board of the Development Corporation for Wales at Swansea on Friday. We had a very long, detailed and useful discussion. I cannot remember any of the exaggerated protests which have come from the Opposition today being voiced by the Development Corporation.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many council houses were started and completed in the county borough of Newport in 1970; and how these figures compare with each year from 1962 onwards.

With permission, I will circulate the information in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

If the hon. Gentleman will study the figures carefully he will notice that there is a vast difference between the house-building performance of this corporation when it was controlled by the Labour Party in Newport and the past three years or so when it has been controlled by the Conservative Party. Does not the hon. Gentleman feel that it is time to tell the Conservative group to get on with the job of providing the necessary houses for the people of Newport?

It is interesting that the hon. Gentleman should have referred to this matter. I understand that the council intends seeking approval to build over 600 new houses in 1971. If this aim is achieved, it will be the highest figure for several years.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what steps are being taken to obtain the medical staff required to man the accident unit recommended in the report prepared for his Department on the hospital services in Pembrokeshire.

Along with the other bodies which gave evidence to Dr. Bevan, my right hon. and learned Friend has asked the board to let him have its comments and proposals on the report by 12th February. I expect these to include the board's comments on the staffing of the accident unit at Haverfordwest. In the meantime, the unit is being kept open during the week-days from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. by local doctors and during the weekend by doctors from the West Wales General Hospital. Glangwili.

Is my hon. Friend aware that, though in general the report has been widely welcomed, there will be no satisfaction until it is implemented? Is my hon. Friend further aware that as the recommendations were made by the Department's Chief Medical Adviser it must be assumed that they are practical and that he will ensure that they are carried into effect?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his interest in this difficult matter. The report was made only a short time ago. We look forward to hearing the answers from the Welsh Hospital Board to the recommendations of the group.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he has discussed with the Chairman of the Welsh Hospital Board the contents of the Report on the Hospital Services in Pembrokeshire prepared for his Department; and whether the Board intends to issue an early statement of its intentions.

I have discussed the Report with the Chairman of the Welsh Hospital Board. As I indicated in reply to my hon. Friend's previous Question, the Board and the other bodies which gave evidence to Dr. Bevan have been asked to submit their comments on the Report to my right hon. and learned Friend by 12th February.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Will the Minister undertake to publish the results of that report? I think that my hon. Friend will agree that we are entitled to expect an early and clear statement of the hospital board's intentions as it is, after all, acting as the Minister's agent in this matter?

I will certainly look at that.

Is the Minister aware of the serious disquiet within the area of the Cardiff Hospital Management Committee concerning the imminent statement from his Department about hospitals in the locality, involving, as rumours have it, a serious cut-back in finance with a possible loss of 400 beds? Will the Minister assure the people of that area that the rumours are not true? Will the hon. Gentleman further undertake to have a look at the machinery by which we understand his right hon. Friend's statement will be released tomorrow and also at the chain of information, which seems to leave the Cardiff Hospital Management Committee as the last body to which the decision will be made known?

If the hon. Gentleman will put down a Question on that matter I will answer it. Question No. 19 refers to Pembrokeshire.

May I ask the Minister of State whether it is proposed to publish tomorrow this important statement to which my hon. Friend the Member for Caerphilly (Mr. Fred Evans) has referred, since there are Questions relating to that today?

I was answering only Question No. 19.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what plans he has to improve the infrastructure of Cardiganshire.

With permission, I will circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT details of trunk and principal road schemes which are programmed or in the preparation pool, and sewerage and sewage disposal schemes which have been authorised. Approval in principle has also been issued for the acquisition of 60 acres of land for industrial development near Aberystwyth.

Is it not true that all, or very nearly all, were matters to which the previous Government had applied their mind? Does the Secretary of State remember that up to mid-summer of last year the improvement of infrastructure was regarded by the Conservative Party as a clear alternative to all the profligate regional development policies of the then Government? We on this side are interested to know what the right hon. and learned Gentleman will do to allow the Conservative Party to acquire a measure of credibility in relation to these promises.

We have announced that additional funds are being made available for that purpose. I hope that local authorities in Cardiganshire and elsewhere in Wales will take advantage of this extra provision of funds.

Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that the sewerage schemes, to which the previous Administration applied their mind just before the election, had been held up for many years before that date?

In many cases that is certainly so.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what was the original estimated cost of the new teaching hospital at the Heath, Cardiff; and how this figure compares with the present estimated final cost.

The original estimate, made in 1962, was £12,957,000. The latest estimate is £18,207,000.

Does the Minister appreciate that this great prestige project is having a highly detrimental effect on other hospital development in Wales? Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that the Royal Gwent Hospital in Newport serves a large industrial population and is simply bursting at the seams at the present time? Will the Minister please give greater priority to it?

I do not accept what the hon. Gentleman has said about the Heath Hospital. I assure the hon. Gentleman, however, that the increase in the estimated cost of the University Hospital of Wales has in no way delayed redevelopment of the Royal Gwent Hospital.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he will ask the Welsh Council to make a new study of current and future employment prospects in Wales.

The Welsh Council's terms of reference are wide enough to cover a study of this nature.

Does the Secretary of State agree that, although he thinks that our views on the matter are exaggerated, in a situation where 1,500 redundancies have been declared in the first three weeks of last month and in the third and fourth quarters of last year inquiries from new firms wishing to move to Wales dropped remarkably, there is urgent need for a new study of current and future job prospects as many people feel that the future is gloomy indeed in that direction?

Yes. I can certainly assure the hon. Gentleman that I am very concerned not only about the situation that has obtained in the last few months but about the situation that has obtained for several years in Wales.

Is it not strange that hon. Gentlemen opposite were appearing to be excessively optimistic about employment prospects a few months ago, whereas now that the Conservatives are in office they are excessively pessimistic? [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] Is it not a fact that their pessimism can be most damaging?

I will only say that it is of particular concern to me that unemployment in Wales has been persistently high for over four years.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the hon. Member for Barry (Mr. Gower) could not have been more apt in his criticism of the Tory Government and that I could not have put it better? Will he commission an economic strategy survey for South-East Wales similar to the one published for North-West Wales today, particularly as the Government's present approach to and policies for regional economic problems have been singularly lacking in anything that could vaguely be described as a strategy?

I have told the House on other occassions at Question Time that the Government are at present considering very carefully the full regional employment policies for Wales and that an announcement will be made shortly.

Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that the proposal that has been made for the location of a major airport in the South Wales and Severnside area could be a valuable item towards the long-term provision of employment in South Wales, especially as in the coming 10 to 15 years employment in the coal mines is likely to diminish rather than increase? Will he use his position in the Cabinet to give emphasis to this proposal in all its seriousness?

I am aware of my hon. Friend's interest in this matter and I assure him that consideration will be given to the point he raises.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what recent discussions he has had with the Welsh Council concerning the increase in unemployment in Wales; and whether he will make a statement.

I attended a meeting of the Welsh Council on 12th October, 1970, and discussed with it a whole range of issues, including unemployment. Concern was expressed to me about the high rates of unemployment which have prevailed in Wales in recent years.

Is it not time that the Secretary of State pulled his socks up? Is he aware that since October the situation has deteriorated very badly in Wales? What arrangements has he made to meet the Welsh Council, which is deeply disturbed by the current increasing unemployment in the Principality?

I am constantly in touch with the Chairman of the Welsh Council. At its meeting on 25th January I do not think this matter was raised. I understand that a panel of the Welsh Council is about to make an investigation. As I have said, it is particularly of concern to me that unemployment in Wales has been persistently high for over four years. In January, last month, the unemployment percentage for Wales was 4.3 of the insured population. In January of last year the figure was 4.3, and in all of the last five years it has been approximately 4.3.

If the right hon. and learned Gentleman really has the good of Wales at heart, will he stop harking back over past years— [Interruption.] —and simply undertake the responsibility which his Leader has given him and get on with the job of job creation in Wales?

Hon. Gentlemen opposite do not like it when one hits back because they feel that it is solely their prerogative to be offensive and introduce party politics into Question Time and the Welsh Grand Committee. I pointed out that while the percentage of unemployment in Wales is deplorably high, there are, nevertheless, fewer people unemployed in Wales today than there were a year ago; and the percentage difference between England and Wales today compared with a year ago is slightly better.

Is it not a fact that unemployment in Wales and elsewhere is entirely due to the policies of the previous Administration? Hon. Gentlemen opposite who are in any doubt about that should ask why they went to the country last June and did not hang on for another six months.

There are many reasons why unemployment in Wales is high, but Question Time is not the time to go into the matter in detail.

Might I, as an Englishman, make a fervent plea to the right hon. and learned Gentleman on behalf of the Welsh people? Since we in the northern region do not have a voice in the Cabinet, may I ask the right hon. and learned Gentleman to argue for a reversal of the present development area policies of the Government lest Wales suffers the fate of the North-East, where in my constituency unemployment has increased by 15.3 per cent. since last June?

Unemployment in the North-East is a problem, and has been for many years. I have no doubt that the change in development area policy will be of benefit not only to Wales but to the regions and that Wales together with the regions will benefit when the economy of the United Kingdom has improved.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what plans he has to deal with the hight rate of male unemployment in the Caerphilly constituency.

The Department of Trade and Industry will continue to do all it can to attract additional new industry to the area.

The people of this area are now becoming extremely tired of non-answers. Will the Secretary of State accept that his reply a few moments ago about stabilising unemployment at 4.3 per cent. ignored that that figure represents a major achievement over years during which there was a heavy programme of pit closures but at the same time enough jobs were brought in to stabilise the unemployment level in Wales, and, further, will he accept that male unemployment in this particular area is running at 9 per cent., which the people there regard as completely intolerable? If he himself cannot evolve policies, or persuade his right hon. Friends to evolve policies, to improve the situation, will he tender his resignation as a mark of his having failed the Welsh people?

The hon. Gentleman has written to me on this matter and I have given him details of the reasons why there have been redundancies in his constituency. He will know that the jobs in prospect for the Caerphilly, Cardiff, Bargoed and Merthyr group of employment exchanges, parts of which straddle his constituency, total 3,780, of which 2,400 are for men.

On the question of Government policy to deal with this problem, has not the Secretary of State overlooked that the purpose of changing the nature of the inducement was to reduce public expenditure and not to increase employment in Wales, and does he not realise that this is having a serious effect on the attraction of new industry? Is it not a fact that the change-over to tax allowances means that new firms which did not settle in Caerphilly, Cardiff and other places are prevented from so doing because of the loss of the investment grant? What does he propose to do to overcome that?

As the right hon. Gentleman knows, as a result of policies pursued by the previous Administration over many years there is a shortage of mobile industry in this country today. The change to tax allowances as opposed to grants affects certain industries which may have a liquidity problem which is general throughout the United Kingdom, again as a result of measures introduced by the previous Administration. I have no doubt that, ultimately, the change will greatly benefit Wales and will bring into Wales more viable and permanent industry.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will initiate an inquiry into the employment problems created in the Rhymney Valley by the redundancies at Hy-Mac engineering works at Pontlottyn, and the proposed total closure of Cardiff machine tools factory at Taffs Well.

No, Sir. But I can assure the hon. Member that the Department of Employment will make every effort to find suitable alternative employment for all those made redundant.

Is the Secretary of State prepared to state a time limit over which the loss of 1,000 male jobs added to an existing 9 per cent. male unemployment can be remedied, or shall we be told that there are 2,000 jobs in the pipeline over the next four years? Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman undertake to read the Manpower and Productivity Service Report of the D.E.P. of last June on the Cardiff Machine Tools Limited, which details some relevant factors regarding these closures? Further, does he realise, in the context of his reconstruction of Welsh local government finance, that by putting industrial mortgages into the locally determined allocation schemes he has struck out of the hands of local authorities one of the main tools with which they previously attracted industry into the valleys?

I have expressed to the hon. Gentleman my sympathy at the redundancies which have taken place in his constituency, and I have told him that my information as regards the Garth works was that the closure resulted from financial losses which the company had incurred over the past few years, due mainly to a low level of demand both at home and in the export market, coupled with increasing costs of production. He will remember that I told him also, as regards Hy-Mac, that they were the consequence of a process of rationalisation which had been necessitated by the depressed state of the construction industry in recent years. I hope that there will be an improvement in the future.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what plans he has to seek to make an official visit to the United States of America in the near future.

I have no plans at present to visit the United States of America.

is it not a fact that those companies which inquired about the chances of developing in Wales following the visit to the Hilton Hotel were not taken in by the Government's economic policies for Wales? Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that if he were to go to the United States he might find American companies a little more gullible? Is it not a fact that while one of the advantages which we are hoping to get in Wales from entry into the European Economic Community is investment by foreign companies, the Government's present policies for Wales are less advantageous for foreign investment than in any other part of the E.E.C.?

That is totally untrue. Indeed, of the 20 industrialists who made specific inquiries at the Development Corporation's exhibition in London, one has firmly taken a site in Wales and two more are examining sites.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what decision he has reached concerning road signs in Wales; and whether he will make a statement.

I am considering representations recently made to me by county authorities and others on this matter and hope to make a statement very shortly.

Is the right lion. and learned Gentleman accepting those inquiries on the basis of the circular which I sent out last year? Am I to assume that, in general, he is adopting the same policy? If he is taking a different line, will he indicate the differences? Is he aware that many people are watching his reaction to the blackmailing tactics of some people at the present time?

I certainly accept the circular which the right hon. Gentleman sent out at the beginning of last year, and I have already said so. In fact, it may be surprising to the right hon. Gentleman to learn that I paid tribute to him for what he did. Indeed, I believe that not enough credit was given to him for his efforts in this matter. If he had accepted some criticism from the minority with less excitability, he might have been given the credit which he deserved. I intend to look at this matter to see whether any improvement is possible, having regard to the complex issues bearing on road safety and the environment.

Mr. George Thomas; next Question.

It is a pity that we must leave this one, Mr. Speaker.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what steps he is taking to improve the main A5 trunk road between Chirk and Corwen, and, in particular, the dangerous bend at Bwlch y Rhysgog near Glyndyfrdwy.

Five schemes costing in all more than £150,000 are pro- grammed for starting in the financial year 1971–72, including a visibility improvement at Bwlch y Rhysgog.

I thank the right hon. and learned Gentleman for that reply, but he will be aware that this is the main highway from London into North Wales and that a great deal of the economic viability of North Wales depends upon the quality of this route. Is he aware that on two counts—first, the considerable inconvenience due to traffic bottlenecks at Llangollen, with consequent queues of vehicles three, four and five miles long, and, second, the question of safety, especially at Bwlch y Rhysgog where there have been five fatalities in the 12 months ending last July—everything he can do to urge the programme forward will be greatly appreciated by the people who live in the area?

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. Work will start on these schemes when the engineering details have been agreed and the necessary land acquired.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he is satisfied with the progress made in Wales towards complying with the requirements of the Caravan Sites Act; and if he will make a statement.

I am reasonably satisfied. I refer the hon. Member to my right hon. and learned Friend's reply of 2nd November last to the hon. Member for Flint, East (Mr. Barry Jones). Welsh Office officials are keeping in close touch with the responsible local authorities.—[Vol. 805, c. 303–4.]

Would the Minister of State say what advice his Department has given to the local authorities, for example, by information from surveys to determine where the problem is greatest, what advice is being given on the use of, for instance, model rules for sites, and what steps are being taken to educate the public in the matter?

There has been a varied reaction to this problem from the various local authorities in Wales. All I can say is that my right hon. and learned Friend is aware of the position in Denbighshire, and officers of the Welsh Office are in touch with the county council, which is, I know, anxious to solve the problem.

On the question of caravans in Wales, has not the time come for the Minister to give a direction to local authorities to prohibit an increase in the number of caravan sites or the granting of any new licences within two miles of the Welsh coastline?

The provisions of the Caravan Sites Act to which the Question refers deal with tinkers and gypsies.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make a statement on the rebuilding of the Aber Bridge in Caernarvon.

The question of building a bridge over the Afon Seiont is under discussion between the Caernarvon County Council and the Caernarvon Royal Borough Council. At the county council's request, I am arranging a further meeting between my officials and those of the two authorities.

I thank the Minister of State for that answer, which is a little more encouraging than the reports we have heard that his Department has been dragging its feet in the matter. Does he realise that the rebuilding of this bridge is of immense importance to the Royal Borough, and especially to its great and growing tourist trade?

I assure the right hon. Gentleman, whose interest in the matter is well known, that the Welsh Office is not dragging its feet. I myself met representatives of both councils, and I have expressed my willingness to meet them again whenever they wish.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he intends to publish his proposals on the reform of local government in Wales.

I hope to announce my proposals for local government reform in Wales this month.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman take it that we on this side would even be prepared to accept a delay in any such announcement if we could be assured that his proposals for reform of local government in Wales, when announced, will include some element of financial reform to ensure that our local authorities have sufficient finance to carry out essential services, services which are now being undermined by actions of the present Government?

That is a somewhat different subject from my proposals for local government reorganisation. I hope that my proposals will be announced very shortly.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many local authorities in Wales have made representations to him that the new loan sanction system will restrict their proposals for the clearance of derelict land; and what replies he has sent.

Eleven local authorities have made representations. I refer the hon. Member to what I and my hon. Friend said in the Welsh Grand Committee on 20th January, 1971.

Since the Secretary of State for the Evironment has, I understand, substantially increased the sums available for loan sanction in the County of Durham for the clearance of derelict land, is the Secretary of State for Wales not able to announce similar substantial increases for loan sanction for clearance of derelict land in the counties of Wales?

I have nothing to add to what I told the Welsh Grand Committee. The hon. Gentleman will recall that I said that I am arranging that the Welsh Office will now discuss with the authorities concerned what additional help may be necessary.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he has completed his consideration of the Report of the Welsh Economic Council on the economy of North-West Wales; and whether he will make a statement.

The Report was formally approved by the Welsh Council on 25th January, 1971. I am now considering it.

In considering this valuable Report, will the Secretary of State consider also what specific financial assistance he will give in order to carry through some of the important recommendations made therein? Does he realise that, valuable though these recommendations are, it would be rather cynical to parade them before the Welsh people if he knew very well that there was not the means to carry them out?

There are a number of recommendations, and they will be considered very carefully.

With permission, I should like to make a statement.

Officials of my Department yesterday had separate meetings, followed by a joint meeting, with representatives of the Union of Post Office Workers and of the Post Office. I was kept informed throughout the day and in the evening I met separately both the union and the Post Office.

I am sorry to have to report to the House that no progress was possible. Both sides held firmly to their positions as I explained them to the House on 20th January.

The union maintained that the Post Office's offer would, given the trend of pay settlements since their last increase, mean a relative worsening of the position of their members which they were not prepared to accept. They made clear that they would only resume negotiations on the basis of an improved offer from the Post Office; without this, the strike would continue and would result in long-term damage to relations between management and staff.

For its part, the Post Office insisted that its offer was a fair one and should be seen not in isolation, but as one of a series of substantial improvements in pay and conditions since the Corporation was set up. It said that any addition to its present offer would lead to a further early and substantial increase in charges, and that this on top of the increases coming into effect in a fortnight's time would lead to a downward spiral in the volume of Post Office business which would damage the commercial viability of the Corporation and the longer-term interests of its staff and of the public.

In spite of this, the Post Office repeated its willingness to go to arbitration, but as before the union maintained its attitude that any form of arbitration is unacceptable to it.

Although I made clear that I was prepared to continue talks under my chairmanship either separately or jointly, both sides felt that no further progress was possible at this juncture. I told both sides that while I must regretfully accept that I could do nothing further at present, I would continue to keep in close touch with developments and that my Department and I would be available for further discussions at any time should this seem useful.

The House will, I know, share my concern about the serious effects of the strike on the public and I will make another statement the moment there is anything further to report.

Is it not a fact that the right hon. Gentleman only moved at all because Mr. Victor Feather offered his services to both sides? Is it not a rather undignified position for the right hon. Gentleman to be in, that he attempts to use his conciliation services only to outflank Mr. Victor Feather?

Is not the right hon. Gentleman misleading the House when he suggests that although he was willing to hold joint discussions both sides—that is, including the unions—thought that they would not be of any useful purpose at this stage?

Is it not a fact that the union has made it clear that it is in a position of flexibility and that it is the Post Office that is standing rigid? Is it not clear that the union would welcome joint discussions under the chairmanship of the right hon. Gentleman as soon as possible? Will he please bring pressure to bear on both sides to get talking round the table?

No, that is not so. I tested this out very carefully with Mr. Jackson yesterday evening and he said, as I stated in my original statement, that he did not feel that any joint discussion under my chairmanship or in any other form could be any use unless he first knew that the Post Office was prepared to increase its offer.

That is rather different.

It is not different at all. I made this absolutely clear in my statement. I explained that the Post Office is equally firm that while it will go to arbitration it cannot, for the reasons that I summarised to the House, increase its offer, because it is certain that that would mean a substantial further increase in charges. It believes that that, coming on top of the big ones which are due in a fortnight, would lead to a downward spiral in its volume of business to the detriment both of the public and the longer-term interest of its staff. That is the position of deadlock. As I said in my statement, neither side is prepared to move.

As to the first part of the right hon. Lady's question, I should have hoped that her object might be to promote peace rather than strife in this matter. It is a nonsensical suggestion that she made, which is nothing but mischievous. The leader of the union in question went out of his way at the first meeting, when he asked me to report to the House as I did, and again last night, to express satisfaction at the rôle I and my Department had played.

Honest Bob.

Both sides knew after the first meeting that I was available at any moment. I am ready to intervene whenever there is a sign of movement. I did not believe that there was any chance of movement, but in view of what was said I thought that there might be. If there is any chance that there might be any movement I regard it as my duty to intervene.

Is it not obvious that very little additional work of value can be done either by the House or the Government in this unfortunate dispute at present? Does not my right hon. Friend agree that it is now time for both sides to reconsider their position, particularly in the light of the arbitration procedure and the vicious damage which the dispute is doing to the economy?

I asked both sides last night to report the position and consider it further, the Post Office with its full board and the union with its full executive.