asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what recent representations he has received from the Scottish Trades Union Congress following the publication of the January unemployment figures; and what replies he has sent.

None, Sir. But, as the hon. Member will be aware, the Scottish Trades Union Congress earlier this week had a meeting with my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister at which I was present.

At that meeting, did the Secretary of State confess to the Scottish Trades Union Congress delegation that his designation of a large part of Scotland as a special development area amounts to a clear admission that his own investment allowances system is a failure?

No. Sir. This S.D.A. designation happened to be a recommendation put to the Government by the S.T.U.C. itself earlier. At the meeting at No. 10 on Monday, there was a full discussion, and I had the impression that the S.T.U.C. considered it extremely useful.

Did my right hon. Friend point out to the delegation that the industrial future of Scotland depends on the defeat of cost inflation and, thereafter, on the resumption of growth in the total United Kingdom economy?

It would be right to say that there was general agreement on that.

Bearing in mind the gravity of the unemployment figures in Scotland, and whatever the merit of the S.D.A. proposals, since they can have little or no effect this year and very little next year, if the Prime Minister's figures given yesterday are correct, has the Secretary of State any plans for immediate action to alleviate the situation during the coming months

In July, when I first met the S.T.U.C., we were aware that unemployment was standing at over 90,000 then, at the height of the summer. I have seen the S.T.U.C. since then, and we have kept in touch about the matter. The S.D.A. was the quickest method to be brought in because, contrary to what the right hon. Gentleman said, but in accordance with what I said on 3rd February, legislation was not required and it could be designated straight away. [HON. MEMBERS: "The right hon. Gentleman did not know."] I replied at the time —this was in my first speech—but hon. Members did not take it in, that I had been advised that legislation was not necessary to designate it. The point is that legislation is still necessary to raise the grants to the amounts which have already been announced.

Will the Secretary of State now answer my question?

I have already stated that the S.D.A. system was a method which was to hand and was the quickest to introduce in order to deal with the situation. The right hon. Gentleman knows that already, in order immediately and urgently to relieve as much as we can of the unemployment which we found on coming into office, we have introduced, for Scotland only, the winter works programme,

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make an official tour of the rural areas of Scotland.

As my home and constituency are in the North of Scotland, I frequently travel by different routes through much of rural Scotland.

Keep travelling.

I do. I shall continue also to make visits to particular areas as part of my programme.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware of the staggering number of withdrawal notices on rural bus services in Scotland at present? Am I to take it from Written Answers which I have received in the last week or two that, instead of doing anything to save these services in the meantime, the Secretary of State has chosen to shelter behind two pilot studies, in Devon and West Suffolk, set up by an English Minister?

No, Sir; I am not sheltering behind anything. This serious matter is receiving the Government's urgent attention. I travel by bus a lot in the North of Scotland, apart from using other forms of travel, and I am aware of the usefulness of the rural bus services.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what consultations have taken place between his Department, the Clyde Port Authority and other interested parties about the construction of ocean terminals at Hunterston.

My right hon. Friend's officials keep in close touch with the Clyde Port Authority and other bodies concerned with port development on the Clyde.

Does not the hon. Gentleman realise that it is his job to see that a lead is given to the Clyde Port Authority and the British Steel Corporation, and that there is a tremendous feeling in Scotland that if this great national asset of deep water in the Clyde had been an English channel we should have had a decision years ago?

This is a matter between the Clyde Port Authority and the British Steel Corporation. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that negotiations are going on between those two bodies as to how they can forward this project. I think that a decision is not very far off.

Is it true that there may be another inquiry at Hunters- ton? If so, may we be assured that it will not be of the same marathon length as the last inquiry at Hunterston? Are the Government being consulted about the projected agreement between the British Steel Corporation and the Clyde Port Authority on the construction of an ore terminal port?

I certainly hope that any new inquiry would not be as long as the first. My right hon. Friend has just circulated the additional evidence on the demand for home refining capacity and so on, which he promised to do. It is too early to say whether there will be objections that will need a further inquiry. If there were to be such an inquiry it would probably take place some time in May. This is a matter between the British Steel Corporation and the Clyde Port Authority, and the Secretary of State's interest, apart from his general economic interest in Scottish affairs, is a planning interest, and he will be ready to step in as soon as he is needed.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is about three months since his right hon. Friend gave the all-clear for this to proceed? What has his Department been doing and what is it doing, to get rid of the difficulties which seem to have cropped up? What precisely are those difficulties?

It is not a question of difficulties. Negotiations are going on in the perfectly normal way between the two bodies concerned. I can at least assure the hon. Gentleman that no time is being lost and that technical investigations and site borings are proceeding to ensure that no further time will be lost when the decision is reached.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many approvals were granted in respect of houses to be built by Glasgow local authority in each of the years 1968 to 1970.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is now the final figure for houses completed in 1970 in the city of Glasgow.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the total number of housing starts, by all sources, in Glasgow in the years 1968, 1969 and 1970.

With permission, I will answer Questions Nos. 4, 19 and 22 together and circulate the figures in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

That reply is an abuse of the procedure of Question Time. But sometimes we happen to know the answers before we ask the Questions, so may I ask the hon. Gentleman this: in view of the declining number of approvals, does he agree that the declining number of approvals automatically means a decline in the number of houses constructed? Do not the figures show a wanton, criminal neglect of its statutory duty by the strife-torn, right-wing alliance in Glasgow? What action does the hon. Gentleman propose to take to encourage it, or better still, to abandon it to its inevitable defeat at the forthcoming elections?

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman is putting Questions to which he already knows the answers. I agree with him, of course, that if approvals decline, as they have in Scotland as a whole over the past three years, completions will naturally be likely to decline also. But I cannot agree that the trend in Glasgow is one to be regretted. The Corporation is to be greatly congratulated on at least having looked at the planning standards of housing for the people of Glasgow so that they can have better homes.

I received nearly a cultural shock from that answer, because my question relates to the City of Glasgow and I think that it will be crystal clear—

Order. The hon. Gentleman must not use an opportunity to ask a supplementary question to transmit his cultural shocks to me. He must ask a question.

Does the figure in Glasgow show so alarming a drop that the Minister is afraid to give us the figures today?

Not at all. Cultural shocks are a matter for my hon. Friend the Minister for Sport, who deals with these things. As to the figures, it is not the question of completions in the past years that is relevant. In the past 12 months Glasgow Corporation has rehoused more people in the city than ever before in its history.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. All that the hon. Gentleman was asked for was four small sets of figures, which he could easily have told us. Is it a new departure that when it becomes a bit difficult for the Government, they hide behind the cloak of putting figures in the OFFICIAL REPORT? As backbenchers we should like your guidance on the matter.

Order. First, I deprecate points of order during Question time because they shorten the time available. Second, I have no responsibility for the nature of the Minister's answer. That is his responsibility, not mine.

Will the Minister stop hiding behind the figure of house letting which he has quoted? This is the second time that he has quoted it, and it shows an abysmal ignorance of the true facts of Glasgow's housing problem if he thinks that that is a substitute for new houses.

The point made by the hon. Member for Kelvingrove (Dr. Miller) is without substance, because it was not merely four figures for which I was asked but a veritable table, and it would be an abuse of the time of the House to read it out. The point about the housing programme in Glasgow is that the people of Glasgow are no longer prepared to tolerate any house at any price built anywhere. They want a higher-standard housing, and that is what they will get.

The Minister got us into this difficulty because he decided with permission—and I do not remember giving permission—to answer three Questions together. The answer to the first should consist of three figures. Will he give us them? The answer to the second, Question No. 19, consists of one figure. Will he give us that?

I was asking the permission not of the right hon. Gentleman but of the House, which is not the same thing. Second, there is a whole table of figures in the reply. The right hon. Gentleman can have any of them that he wants at any time, but it is a question of the approval of the House, which was given.

On a point of order. In view of the most unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will implement Recommendation No. 5 contained in the Report on the Construction Industry in Scotland, prepared by the Scottish Council, Development and Industry, with regard to the purchase of new houses in Scotland.

My right hon. Friend is bearing it in mind in considering possible ways of encouraging owner-occupation.

I am very glad to hear that my right hon. Friend is considering that, because the difference between the mortgage limit and the purchase price of a house is too great a burden for many people, particularly as they also have to face expenditure on furnishing. Will my right hon. Friend consider the matter very urgently?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for what he said. It is because of the considerations he outlined, among others, that we are considering in our present review of housing finance all the possible ways of helping people who wish to go in for home ownership.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what further steps he is taking to protect the Scottish Inshore Fishing Industry in Common Market negotiations.

As the House has been informed, Her Majesty's Government have reserved our position on fisheries and made representations about the fisheries policy adopted by the Six.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that answer. Will he also bear in mind that many of the recommendations of the Cameron Report are almost as bad for inshore fishermen as the prospect of joining the Common Market? Will he give an assurance that before any legislation is introduced he will seriously consider the industry's views on the fishing limits?

I am conscious of the concern felt about some of the proposals in the Cameron Report. My right hon. Friend and I are in the process of consulting the interests involved. I can assure my hon. Friend that we shall not come to any conclusions until those consultations are completed.

Will the Minister go a little further on the Cameron Report? While I do not ask him now to repudiate the whole Report, will he make it quite clear that the Government are not bound by the recommendations about the limits, otherwise these may have a serious effect upon our negotiations? Will he see that it is made clear in Brussels that the throwing open of the Scottish fishing waters to indiscriminate fishing of all kinds would not only be disastrous for the Scottish industry but would be extremely harmful to the whole European industry?

Of course, the Government are not prejudging the Cameron Committee proposals. It would make a mockery of the consultations if we did not study them before coming to a conclusion. The right hon. Gentleman can rest assured that, in the Brussels negotiations, we shall do everything possible to ensure that the interests of the Scottish inshore fishing industry are properly represented.

In the unlikely event of the United Kingdom joining the E.E.C., are the Government undertaking any studies to see whether there are any alternative ways of providing employment for the large numbers of fishing communities up and down our coastline which depend on fishing and nothing else?

I am much more concerned at the moment to ensure that we conduct the negotiations properly, and that is precisely what we are doing.

Will the Government follow the example of the Norwegian Government and oppose the entry of Scotland into the E.E.C. unless and until the E.E.C. abandons its fisheries policy?

What the Norwegian Government do is a matter for the Norwegians. We shall negotiate in the way which we believe is in the best interests of our inshore fishermen and in the interests of the United Kingdom as a whole.

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that both the Cameron Report and the Community policy on free access raise two problems—the one on conservation and the other on the regional impact? Is he aware that this is a peculiarly Scottish difficulty? What steps are the Government taking to ensure that the Scottish problems are being properly represented at Brussels?

As I have said on many occasions, we are fully aware of the problems which arise from both those issues. I hope that the hon. Gentleman is not so naïve as to think that, in important negotiations like this, the United Kingdom should declare its position in advance.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what assistance he is prepared to give to local authorities to enable them to recruit more home helps to look after chronically sick and disabled people under the 1970 Act.

This Act does not affect the provision of home helps in Scotland. My right hon. Friend has decided to bring into operation on 1st April Section 14 of the Social Work (Scotland) Act, 1968, which places a duty on local authorities to provide home help for those who need it, including the disabled. Provision has been made for the development of this service in the Rate Support Grant Order for 1971.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is growing concern among Scottish local authorities about the shortage of financial assistance from the Government to provide more home helps? Is he further aware that, under the Social Work (Scotland) Act, he is obliged to provide more home helps for people who are in need?

The hon. Gentleman will, no doubt, have noted from the report on the Rate Support Grant Order that the local authorities' current expenditure on social work services is expected to rise from £21 million in 1969–70 to over £26 million in 1972–73. This increase of 25 per cent. will enable the authorities, among other things, to expand the home help service.

Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied that the requirements of Sections 1 and 2 of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act, 1970, are being or will be met in respect of the severely disabled in Scotland? With regard to Section 1 of the Act, does he agree that there will be little point in finding out the number of severely disabled persons unless we know who they are and where they live?

The situation in Scotland is rather different from that of England. The Sections of the Act to which the hon. Gentleman has referred do not apply to Scotland. We have our own Social Work Act, which covers similar circumstances.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will state his present intentions with regard to a passenger transport authority in the Greater Glasgow area.

It remains my right hon. Friend's intention to discuss this issue with the local authorities concerned when he has completed his examination of all the factors involved.

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that, if Glasgow's overspill programme and the special development area programme are to be successful, it is essential to improve the transport situation in the Greater Glasgow area?

I agree with the hon. Gentleman's general point, but he will appreciate that, following the publication of the Greater Glasgow Transportation Study, there was a need for some follow-up studies to be done. These are coming to hand now. In addition, this matter cannot but be bound up with the decisions announced recently in the White Paper on the Reform of Local Government.

The hon. Gentleman says that the Government had to ask for follow-up studies. Has he made any assessment of the Greater Glasgow Transportation Study in a more general form? Will he impress upon the Secretary of State for the Environment the importance to the Clyde Valley area of the "blue train" commuter service and the importance of Section 39 of the Transport Act being continued at least until there is a complete reorganisation of local government in Scotland and a passenger transport authority is set up?

I agree that the Greater Glasgow Transportation Study is a valuable and useful document. That is why the follow-up studies were necessary before reaching final conclusions. I agree about the importance of the "blue train" service.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what guidance he has given to local authorities, new town development corporations and the Scottish Special Housing Association, about the need for double-glazing, to prevent heat-loss in houses intended for the occupation of old people.

Advice on the design of houses for old people, including heating, was given in Bulletin No. 3 of the new Scottish Housing Handbook, copies of which were sent last July to local authorities, new town corporations, and the Scottish Special Housing Association.

The hon. Gentleman has not said to what extent that included advice specifically to the new town corporations on double-glazing in houses for old people. Is he aware of the increasing importance attached to double-glazing in the prevention of hypothermia among old people? Is he aware that, in East Kilbride, we have the rather odd situation in which the new town corporation is not providing double-glazing, even in houses for old people, whereas the town council provides it in its own houses?

I appreciate the right hon. Lady's interest and agree with her about the value of double-glazing. I think that the more valuable thing to do, however, is to insist on appropriate minimum heating standards and not necessarily to specify double-glazing as against other forms of heat insulation. But I take the point. We will seek to see that all local authorities, including the new town corporations, maintain the minimum adequate heating standards.

Declaring a possible financial interest, may I ask the hon. Gentleman whether he accepts that there is a strong case not only for double-glazing in the construction of new houses for old people but for the conversion of existing old people's houses to double-glazing?

I appreciate that, but the important point is to get minimum heating standards accepted, and double-glazing may or may not be the best way to achieve that in different circumstances.

Before the construction of such houses, will the hon. Gentleman ensure that the plans are sent to the fire prevention authorities so that every, step that can be taken will be taken to avoid fires, in view of the tragic number of fatalities which are occurring because of fires in council housing?

We are very concerned with the views of the fire authorities and will do all that we can to see that the fire regulations are observed in the planning and construction of new houses.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he expects to reach a decision about the proposed new town development at Stonehouse.

Shortly.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that all that we have been told so far is that there will be a lot of extra houses at Stonehouse but that we have been given no numbers and still do not know whether he has specifically put it to the East Kilbride Development Corporation that it should be the agency to build houses? Is he aware that, in these circumstances, his reply is totally unsatisfactory and that it is too much that all this procrastination should take place because, apparently, he cannot make up his mind about the fundamental issues involved?

I am sorry to think that the right hon. Lady should appear to be opposed to a proposal of this kind. It is under consideration, as I announced on 3rd February. I am aware that the last Government made an announcement in January, 1969, which has led to the development plan being amended. My estimate of the scheme which we now envisage is that it will be about five times larger.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will publish in the Official Report the housing capital debt per head of the population of the joint burgh of Motherwell and Wishaw and of each of the 10 largest local authorities in Scotland, respectively.

Yes, Sir.

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that these very large debts have been built up by the local authorities in following the housing programmes of successive Governments? Will he give an assurance that the Government have no intention of welshing upon their debt obligations, which they themselves have undertaken to meet?

I am not quite certain to which aspect of the housing finance system the hon. Gentleman is referring. The question of the housing debts incurred by the present local authorities is something that we shall take into account—and, indeed, we are doing so—in our current consultations with the local authority associations.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what has been the number of housing starts in Scotland in the past six months; how these compare with the equivalent six months of the previous year; and what are his explanations for the changes that are revealed by these figures.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how the number of houses started in the last six months compares with the number for the similar period a year ago; and what are the reasons for the difference.

18,470 houses were started in the last six months of 1970, and 19,649 in the last six months of 1969. The change reflects the response of local authorities to their housing needs.

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that this decline in housing starts is a very serious matter—very serious indeed in view of the sick housing situation in Scotland? Does he accept that this decline is to go further in the next year? What proposals has he to increase the number of housing starts now?

The decline is not as regular as the hon. Gentleman suggests. For example, there were more starts in the second half of 1970 than there were in the first half. The general decline started in 1968, because between 1968 and 1969 there were nearly 5,000 fewer starts, and there were 3,000 fewer between 1969 and 1970.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the scrapping of S.E.T. on the building industry, a tax imposed by the previous Government, will give the building industry in Scotland a much-needed boost of £19 million and enable the industry to take up much of the slack of the present unemployment in the industry, which totals 26,000 at present, to whom we are paying unemployment benefit to the tune of the equivalent of 50 new houses per week?

I am aware that S.E.T. has been a burden upon the building industry. My aim is to encourage public authorities and the private builders to meet the outstanding need wherever it exists and as quickly as possible and by all the means available, including improvement and slum clearance.

Does the reduction in the number of houses started, completed and authorised by Glasgow in the last two years reflect an improvement in its need?

That is a question about Glasgow, and there are other Questions down about that.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will state the number of houses completed and the number of houses approved in Burntisland for the year ended 31st December, 1970.

Twenty-one local authority houses and three private houses were completed. No proposals for council house building were approved.

Is the Minister aware that at present there are 195 people on the waiting lists of Burntisland and that there are only 16 houses under construction? Is he prepared to condemn nearly 180 families in Burntisland to a homeless future? What steps does he propose to take to prevent that?

In the first place this is primarily a matter for the town council of Burntisland to decide. That council has not submitted to me during the past year any proposals for housebuilding but is in no way being held up by the Government, and I very much hope that it will be looking at its future needs. I have been doing need surveys in respect of all local authorities. I am still awaiting detailed estimates from Burntisland of the number of houses which fall below the tolerable standard.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what calculations the Scottish Development Department has made of the total estimated loss to Scotland of the Government's decision to phase-out the regional employment premium; and whether he has received representations from Scottish industry on this matter.

The Government announced last October that the regional employment premium was to be paid in full until September, 1974. The total amount of regional employment premium payments in Scotland, on the latest figures available, for the financial year 1969–70 was £41·3 million.

In view of this prospective loss of £40 million to industrial development, and with the statement in the Government's White Paper that the amount of money to be spent on industry and employment over the country is to decline by 7·1 per cent. per annum, how can the right hon. Gentleman go on saying that the amount of money to be spent on regional economic development in Scotland is not being diminished by the present Government?

The statement confirmed that R.E.P. would be paid for four years from last October to the end of the seven-year period for which it was introduced by the last Government. This gives a considerable period ahead, removes uncertainty, and provides time to consider the economic situation in 1973–74 and what combination of measures will then be appropriate.

I wish that the right hon. Gentleman would answer the question he is asked.

Will my right hon. Friend accept that the imposition of selective employment tax in Scotland has had a much wider significance than the regional employment premium? Will he accept that the removal of this tax would effect a much-needed boost to the whole Scottish economy?

I agree with my hon. Friend that S.E.T. has been harsh in areas of Scotland. Of course, a number of things will happen during the four years R.E.P. continues to be paid. These are bound to alter the situation, and that will give us opportunities for considering other measures.

Can the Secretary of State tell us exactly what Scotland's share is to be of the additional expenditure on the S.D.A.? The Prime Minister told us that this year nothing is to be spent; the following year it is to be about £2 million, rising to a maximum in 1974–75 of £10 million. That is for England and Wales and Scotland. What is Scotland's share of that £10 million?

The right hon. Gentleman ought to know, because he was involved in this, that the results will depend on how successful we are with the economy as a whole and, therefore, to what extent incentives will be taken up. If we can get nearly 40,000 new jobs a year in Scotland, as we did between 1960 and 1964, those incentives will be taken up to a greater extent.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will publish estimates of the percentage of housing subsidies which will be applied to the private and public sector of housing in Scotland following his discussions with local authority associations on housing finance.

I have already announced our policies and stated that discussions with local authority representatives are proceeding. I shall be able to provide more information after these discussions have been completed.

Would the Secretary of State admit that the total expenditure envisaged in the White Paper on Public Expenditure to 1974–75 indicates a falling off in capital expenditure on housing in Scotland, and will he admit, therefore, that the direct result of Government policy, no matter how much he tries to cook the books, is less local authority and public sector housing in Scotland?

No, because if the hon. Gentleman looks at his hon. Friend's Question No. 18 he will see that there is to be an increase, at constant prices—

Oh, come on.

—and, as the hon. Gentleman knows, the working party is examining proposals at the moment and it hopes to report next month to my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Development.

Would the right hon. Gentleman comment on suggestions which are rife in Scotland that it is the policy of the Government by 1976–77 to eliminate all rate contributions to council rents and all Exchequer subsidies? Will he deny that this is the policy of his Government?

There has been no statement about reducing Exchequer subsidy. Countless times in this House I have stated that the intention is to retain the amount, at constant prices, but to redirect it to where it can do the most good. As regards rates, I have also pointed out that it is definitely our intention to remove the burden now on Scottish ratepayers, who are contributing 35 per cent.—no less—of the costs of council housing.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many meetings he has had with local government associations regarding future housing finance; and if he will make a statement.

I have nothing to add to the reply I gave the hon. Member on 13th January.—[Vol. 809, c. 36.]

But is the right hon. Gentleman aware that he has managed to breed a great deal of uncertainty about the future of new homes in Scotland? Is he aware, further, that the only certainty he seems to have bred is that there will be increased rents in the future?

We have stated that we intend to bring in rent rebate schemes which, for the first time, will cover the whole public sector and will also extend into the private sector. With proper rent rebate schemes and the advice of the Brownlie Committee, which has just reported upon them, it will be possible to finance housing properly in Scotland and to reduce the unbearable burden on Scottish ratepayers.

If we are unwise enough to sign the Treaty of Rome there will be, as my right hon. Friend knows, free movement of labour. Can he tell me what effect that would have on housing finance in Scotland and the number of houses?

My hon. Friend has raised a very much wider question. I can assure him that I shall look to him for advice about these matters when—if they do—they have some bearing on our housing problems.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland why public expenditure on housing will increase from £225·2 million in 1969–70 to an estimate of £230 million in 1974–75; and what is the anticipated average rent increase per year for public authority housing on which these estimates have been made.

Estimates of public expenditure on housing in 1970–71 and 1974–75 are given in the White Paper on Public Expenditure published last month. The composition of this expenditure from 1972–73 onwards will depend on the outcome of the discussions which I am having with the local authority associations on the reform of housing finance.

Will the right hon. Gentleman tell us whether this expenditure will result in more houses? This is what we want. Will he further say whether the Government's aim is to increase rents by not less than 10s. a week each year up to 1974–75, as was said in a circular in his Department a few months ago? Will he be honest with the people of Scotland and tell them that it is the Government's intention to increase rents substantially and regularly up to 1974–75?

On the first point, it is our intention to provide more homes in the places where they are needed. On the second point, I have made it clear that rents will be raised by reasonable steps each year. The amounts await the result of the discussions which we are having with the local authority associations.

The right hon. Gentleman was unable to answer my earlier supplementary question whether he expects house building to increase and what ideas he has for increasing it. He has now said that he will build more homes in places where they are needed. What proposals has he to increase or to alter the present downward trend in housing starts?

The hon. Gentleman has misquoted me. I said that the intention was to "provide more homes", the point being to provide homes by repairing and retaining those that are falling into decay and to improve housing which would otherwise fall below the tolerable standards, in accordance with the Act passed by the last Government, and also by building new houses. I must emphasise that to take the view that the provision of homes depends entirely on new house building and not on other methods is to over-simplify in a misleading way the problem before the Government.

Is the Secretary of State aware that we on this side of the House do not accept, and nor should he, the proposition that house improvements mean less new house building? The two methods are not mutually exclusive, as we demonstrated. Does not the Secretary of State agree, from his own figures, despite the Artful Dodger's earlier answers which avoided the questions, that the house-building programme is falling? It is clear from this Question and this answer that the house-building programme is steadily falling to less than 30,000 a year.

It is for the right hon. Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross) to explain on his side why the starts between 1968 and 1969 fell by nearly 5,000—that is when the house-building programme started to fall—and by 3,000 in the following year. He should accept that, besides maintaining a house-building programme, particularly by encouraging the private sector which can add so much to the public sector, the provision of extra homes in the places where they are needed is now the requirement for any Government of Scotland.

Is the Secretary of State aware that during the last four years there have been record completions of houses both in the public sector and in the private sector? What we want to know from the right hon. Gentleman is what are his targets—or is he afraid to state them?

No, I have made it perfectly clear that I have no intention of setting targets. For the right hon. Gentleman to talk about targets, having missed his own last year by over 5,000, is incredible.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what recent communications he has had with Midlothian County Council regarding their future school building programme.

Midlothian Education Authority has asked for a meeting to discuss primary school building in its area. I shall be seeing representatives of the authority for this purpose on 8th March.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he intends to insist that local authorities implement the provisions of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act, 1970; and what financial provision has been made for this purpose in the White Paper on Public Expenditure 1969–70 to 1974–75, Command Paper No. 4578.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what recent instructions he has given to local authorities with regard to the implementation of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act, 1970.

The Act does not give my right hon. Friend the power to instruct local authorities how its provisions should be implemented. He has, however, sent out several circulars to bring the requirements of the Act to the notice of local authorities, and offered guidance on them. He is also arranging to obtain from the authorities the information which they are required to supply under the provisions of the Act.

Does not the hon. Gentleman recognise that when the Act was passed the previous Government in their Money Resolution undertook to underwrite all the financial burdens laid on the local authorities? Do the present Government stand by that undertaking, and will they engage in a publicity campaign on television and radio to make the estimated 250,000 seriously disabled people in Scotland aware of the provisions of the Act, about which the local authorities are doing very little?

The Government take the Act very seriously. In fairness, some of the provisions have been in force for less than three months. The fact that local authority expenditure on social services over the period concerned, as I have said previouly today, will increase by about 25 per cent., shows that local authorities have the money to expand their social services in this and other ways.

The Minister has rightly pointed out that Sections 1 and 2 of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act, 190 do not apply to Scotland. He will know that Section 1 lays upon local authorities the duty to have a register of disabled persons. Will he instruct Scottish local authorities to keep such a register?

The Social Work (Scotland) Act covers many of the provisions dealt with in these Sections. It is my intention that the services which we shall provide in Scotland will be no worse than in England.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what consultations he has had with the Scottish Trades Union Congress about the employment prospects in Scotland.

I met the Scottish Trades Union Congress twice during 1970, and they had a meeting this week with my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister at which I was present. On all these occasions employment prospects in Scotland were discussed.

In view of the grave unemployment situation in Scotland, will the Secretary of State at regular intervals, say quarterly, give advice to the S.T.U.C. on employment prospects?

I am glad to say that I have frequent meetings with leading members of the S.T.U.C. on the Scottish Economic Council and elsewhere, besides the meetings I have described. On all these occasions we have opportunities to talk about unemployment and what can be done to bring modern industry to Scotland and to encourage industry there to flourish and expand.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will make a further statement on the progress of negotiations on police pay.

Negotiations on the current pay claim are still proceeding in the Police Council for the United Kingdom and my right hon. Friend has not yet received a recommendation from it. The council negotiators are meeting again tomorrow.

Will the Minister take cognisance that the Prime Minister told us yesterday that more than 3 per cent. of civil servants received a 20 per cent. increase? Will that be the yardstick for the police? Many areas in Scotland are under-manned. Will not the Government fulfil their election promise to give the police a fair deal and a living wage?

As I am sure the hon. Gentleman appreciates, it would be quite wrong for me to comment on the merits of the claim while negotiations are proceeding. I entirely accept the need to strengthen the police. We gave that undertaking at the General Election, and we shall fulfil it.

Is the Minister aware that thousands of police officers who joined the police force after the war are due to retire after 25 years' service, and that this will be a tremendous drain on the police force in Scotland unless a substantial increase in salary is awarded?

I accept, as the hon. Gentleman said, that one of the biggest problems is wastage. Another problem is that which he mentioned of the police officers who are coming up to retirement. This matter will be taken into account in the negotiations.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland to how many local voluntary organisations he gives direct financial assistance for community purposes.

In 1970 capital grants were made to 23 local community associations, 112 local sports clubs and 30 local youth organisations to help them to provide new or improve existing facilities.

Could the hon. Gentleman not break with the conservative traditions of this Government, and indeed of previous Governments, and sponsor or assist, in co-operation with local authorities, the setting up of pilot schemes in community work in the light of the importance of community councils, even under Wheatley?

I am very much aware of the hon. Gentleman's great interest in this matter, and I assure him that I shall bear very much in mind what he said.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the Scottish Economic Planning Board's estimates of the changes in employment in manufacturing industry in the period 1970 to 1975.

The Scottish Economic Planning Board is carrying out, as a continuing exercise, an examination of the factors likely to determine labour supply and demand in Scotland over the next few years.

I hope that the Secretary of State will concede that, whatever estimates the Planning Board has made, it has been drawn off course by the high incidence of unemployment in Scotland, particularly in the manufacturing industry. Would he concede that his Government's policy is undermining the manufacturing base which the Labour Government created in Scotland?

The answer to the last part of the question is, "No". As many hon. Gentlemen know, before I came into office I was prophesying unemployment in Scotland this winter if the Labour Government did not make changes. I was not myself surprised at what happened, but I regret it. The Labour Government in their 1966 White Paper estimated a net gain of 60,000 jobs, but during that period there was a net loss of 82,000.

Since the Secretary of State has reminded us of his prophecy of unemployment this winter, would he give a categorical assurance that unemployment in Scotland next winter will be substantially less than it is now?

I can give an assurance that the changes which we have made and which the previous Government refused to consider should lead to a better situation next winter.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what consultations he has had with the Highlands and islands Development Board concerning the development of the sporting estates in the Highlands and Islands.

None, Sir, but sporting estates feature in the Board's first comprehensive development report on Kildonan.

Will the Secretary of State repudiate the Prime Minister's statement last week that the Government would not allow the Highlands and Islands Development Board concerning compulsory powers, or does he believe that his friends, the sporting landlords of the Highlands, are interested, without compulsion, in providing employment?

No; the hon. Gentleman has completely misunderstood the point to which the Prime Minister was referring. I believe that the hon. Gentleman was in the House and will remember that the Highlands and Islands Development (Scotland) Bill, as first introduced, contained a Clause which would have given powers to take over compulsorily and run any kind of enterprise. Fortunately, the Government at that time accepted an Amendment to include the words "by agreement", which completely transformed the effect of that Clause, and said that this had been their intention. Therefore, the legislation which finally emerged was quite different from the Bill as first published.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that as the trustee of a large highland sporting estate, I can tell him that for a long time we have offered the Highlands and Islands Development Board unlimited co-operation in developing sport and tourism?

As hon. Members know, I do not myself shoot or fish—

Why not?

I am sorry to say that I am 80 per cent. disabled. But I am aware that sport can contribute to the Highlands and its economy and should be compatible with agricultural and other pursuits.

Would the right hon. Gentleman look anew at his answer? The right hon. Gentleman the Prime Minister, in answer to a question put by my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition, clearly stated that the Board would not be allowed to use its compulsory powers. Would he examine this matter, since we do not wish to have the record corrected again? This is an important point and I ask him to look at what we have said.

I heard the Prime Minister on that occasion and I have a report of his words with me. I wish to make the record clear, because I took part in those other proceedings in the debates on that Bill when on the Opposition Front Bench. The hon. Member for Clackmannan and East Stirlingshire (Mr. Douglas) was not in the House at that time. When that was referred to outside this House as "a Marxist Measure". it was in relation to Clause 6, which at that time was an odious and obnoxious Clause, which was later changed to the satisfaction of the whole House.

Does the right hon. Gentleman acknowledge that the Prime Minister was not referring to powers which the Board does not enjoy but to compulsory powers which are contained in the Act? Will he give an assurance, in contradiction to what was said by the Prime Minister, that the Board will be allowed to use compulsory powers which it enjoys?

Again the hon. Gentleman is wrong. The Prime Minister was replying to a question put by the Leader of the Opposition referring to the remark about its being a Marxist Measure.—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."] Hon. Gentlemen can look it up. I have the quotation with me. The Prime Minister was replying to a question about its being a Marxist Measure, which was a reference to Clause 6 in the Bill as it first appeared. Later in the Bill we discussed the compulsory powers. This is all on the record.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that a deputation from the Highlands and Islands Development Board recently visited the Midland counties? When the Board repeats its visit, would my right hon. Friend arrange lo accompany the Board and then, after it has completed its official duties, proceed to South Worcestershire where I will offer my right hon. Friend excellent fishing, shooting, hunting and other sporting facilities?

As I have indicated, I am afraid that they can be of little use to me but I am very much aware of the welcome the Highlands and my area of the North gave to my hon. Friend when he made a visit there recently.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what further study he proposes to make of the secondary teacher shortage in 1972–73.

My right hon. Friend's Department is currently engaged on studies of staffing needs.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the estimates of the shortage grow larger and larger and that part-time education in Scotland has now reached alarming proportions? Does he consider it educationally wise to raise the school-leaving age throughout Scotland in these circumstances?

As my hon. Friend is aware, the problem, though serious, is concentrated largely in several areas. This is a major problem, but I can assure my hon. Friend that we are conscious of the need to recruit more teachers and are taking all possible steps we can.

Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that in 1946 the Labour Government, faced with teaching conditions infinitely worse than those faced by the present Government, raised the school-leaving age? Will the Tory Government, when they face the issue in far better circumstances, ensure that the school-leaving age goes up to 16?

We have already said that it is the Government's intention to proceed with the arrangements for raising the school-leaving age on the due date. But I do not accept criticism from the Labour Party, bearing in mind the very severe teacher shortage which the Labour Government left this Administration.

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that the best single thing which he could do to guarantee that we recruited the kind of teacher we require would be to give the House an assurance today that Scottish teachers will not be put on the chopping block, as the Government have done to every other public servant in recent wage negotiations? I hope that he will not follow the lead given by his right hon. Friend in leaning on the local authorities. Such a guarantee would go a long way towards helping the situation in Scottish schools.

I assure the hon. Gentleman that it is the Government's policy to ensure that there is fairness in all our dealings with everyone. I hope that our general policy will be infinitely better than the shambles which the previous Government left us.