asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what reply he has sent to the Livingston Advisory Committee's request to meet him.

The reply sent to the Midlothian and West Lothian Joint Planning Advisory Committee explained why the new special development area was confined to West Central Scotland and the basis on which, as an exceptional measure, Livingston new town was being considered for possible special development area status. It indicated also that these explanations made a meeting unnecessary.

The Secretary of State's decision not to meet the Livingston Advisory Committee will be regarded as an insult to responsible elected people in that area. Notwithstanding the reasons which he has given for his decision, does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that in the new town of Livingston we have serious unemployment problems now—in fact, the unemployment rate is 18 per cent. of the male population—and will he reconsider his decision, for I am sure that the committee has something to say to him which would be helpful?

I hope that there will be no misunderstanding about my reply, which stated the position in a constructive way. Discussions about the status of the new town are going on at this moment, so I cannot add much at this stage, but I certainly do not wish people to misunderstand my attitude on the matter at all.

Should not Livingston be treated as overspill?

Livingston was originally set up as a new town in order to assist with Glasgow overspill. It is upon the degree to which it is able to help West Central Scotland that its status as a special development area may depend.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received from haulage and transport undertakings in Scotland on increased oil fuel charges; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend has received no such representations.

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that escalating fares and transport costs are causing great concern to the people of Scotland? Has consideration been given, or is consideration being given now, to an effort to do something about our own indigenous energy resources in order to remove ourselves from the clutches of dependence on overseas oil?

That is one factor which enters into the consideration of the uses of fuels, but the hon. Gentleman will understand that it is not specifically related to the subject of road haulage charges, to which his Question referred.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when the Highlands and Islands Development Board intends to publish its report on the development of the Ben Wyvis area of Ross and Cromarty.

I undestand that very recently the Highlands and Islands Development Board received from consultants a report on the possibilities of winter sports development on Ben Wyvis. It is for the board to decide whether publication of this report would further such development.

I am glad to know that the board has now received this report, for the delay was causing considerable worry in my constituency. Will my hon. Friend suggest to the Highlands and Islands Development Board that, when considering this report, it should consider also the privately commissioned report which has already been prepared, having been commissioned by the Ben Wyvis Development Corporation?

My hon. Friend may like to know that the report took a little longer than expected because, in addition to evaluating the market potential of Ben Wyvis, the consultants made quantitative assessments of existing winter sports facilities both in Scotland and on the Continent and of their likely development over the next decade. It has been a fairly wide-ranging study which, I hope, will prove useful.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will give a timetable for the work to be carried out on the new fast road from Inverness to the North, and an estimated completion date.

I have now informed the local planning authorities that I proposed to adopt as my preferred proposal a direct route across the Black Isle, including crossings of both the Beauly Firth and the Cromarty Firth, which will be linked with Dingwall by an improved road from Tore to the present A9 north of Conon Bridge. After further informal consultations with the highway authorities and other interested bodies, I will publish detailed proposals for public consideration. Thereafter the statutory processes will have to be completed before the timetable for work can be forecast.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that statement, which will be welcomed in my constituency. Such is my pleasure that it calls for no further supplementary question.

That is much appreciated by the Chair.

While I understand the hon. Gentleman's comment, greater satisfaction would have been felt north of Inverness if the Secretary of State had announced at the same time his willing- ness to bridge the Dornoch Firth. Will he now give an indication of when this can be done?

I have announced the crossing of two Firths, and that is not bad for one day. As it was only two years ago that I wrote to the former Secretary of State asking him to keep this option open, I am very glad to be in a position today to announce these two crossings. As I have said before, the question of the Dornoch Firth, to which I drew attention two years ago, will have to be looked into in the future.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will announce the proposed starting date for the building of the Lanarkshire section of the M80 motorway, and when it is likely to be ready for use.

My right hon. Friend will publish proposals for relieving the Lanarkshire section of A80 when current studies, which affect also the adjoining length of A80 within Glasgow, are completed.

The Minister will be aware that the studies have been going on for some time and that the problem for the people of Stews, through whose village the A80 now goes, is reaching disastrous proportions, particularly as the traffic is building up to the developments in Cumbernauld. Will the Government please take some steps immediately to announce a date for the start of the building of the motorway so that those people have some relief for the future?

I share the hon. Gentleman's concern at the traffic conditions on some parts of the road. For that reason I have recently authorised various traffic management measures, including the provision of pedestrian crossings, traffic lights and the removal of bollards. As soon as the studies to which I have referred are completed, I shall consult Glasgow Corporation about the priority to be given to the construction of the new parts of the road.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland with whom he had consultations prior to the formulation of the changes in regional development policy announced by Her Majesty's Government.

I undertook no formal consultations on the matters which were examined in our review of regional policies, but I had the opportunity of discussing various aspects of regional policy with the Scottish Economic Council, the Scottish Council (Development and Industry), the Scottish Trades Union Congress and the Confederation of British Industry in Scotland.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have been told in a Parliamentary answer that no consultations took place with foreign industrial interests before the abolition of investment grants? Does he not consider that in view of the previous interest of the Government in attracting investment to Scotland from West Germany it was rank incompetence to change the system of industrial incentives before consulting some of the people who might have been coming here?

We made it clear at least a year before we came to office that we were considering changing the inflexible system of investment grants and replacing it by more use of the Local Employment Acts and tax allowances. I remind the hon. Gentleman that the main anti-regional development measure of recent years was introduced with no warning or consultation at all; namely, S.E.T., which is about to be halved and will be abolished in two years' time.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that probably the best boost for the regional areas would be a complete abolition of S.E.T.? Will he raise with the Chancellor of the Exchequer the idea of varying the 50 per cent. across-the-board cut proposed by his right hon. Friend so that it is totally removed in the development areas?

That is an interesting suggestion, which I will make sure my right hon. Friend hears about. The rates of S.E.T. were introduced by the previous Government in three stages. I am delighted that we can cut them in half in one.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the statements about S.E.T. and investment allowances are only two of the 61 pledges already carried through by this Government, and does he accept that the fulfilment of those two pledges will bring about a situation in Scotland far more profitable to the country than the miserable employment record achieved by the Labour Party?

I endorse what my hon. Friend has said. I am sure that his arithmetic is correct. The only point is that the number may be increasing during the course of today.

Was the Secretary of State consulted by the Chancellor before the change from investment allowances was announced? Does he apreciate that this has been an absolutely disastrous change, recognised as such by everyone concerned, and that the new impetus he announced in October, when it was put forward at a Press conference, is amply exemplified by 122,000 unemployed in Scotland today?

I was one of the architects of this policy as a member of the Shadow Cabinet when the original proposals were published. The right hon. Gentleman criticises the system. His was the system which produced unemployment figures of 93,000 last July, at the height of summer, and before that he was opposed to any change at all.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what rate increases have been notified to him for the financial year 1971–72 for the cities of Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh and Glasgow; and what percentage increase is represented over the previous year.

So far as I am aware, no rate poundages for 1971–72 have yet been fixed by the corporations.

Will the hon. Gentleman indicate whether he expects the rate increases in Scotland to average 14 per cent., as in England and Wales? If that is so, does he agree that his failure to act will be one of a great number of broken pledges that he gave the ratepayers of Scotland?

We have no information at this stage to forecast what rate increases may be, but I have on several occasions made it clear that I hope very much that local authorities, in planning their rate requirements for the coming year, will bear in mind the necessity not to raise any further revenue than they absolutely need.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many housing units require to be built in Scotland to provide sufficient housing of tolerable standards for people living in Scotland; and when he anticipates this need will be fulfilled.

I am still awaiting returns from over half of the local housing authorities giving their assessments of the number of houses in their areas which fail to meet the tolerable standard.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the 1966 Census figures of housing in Scotland showed that in unfurnished tenancies rented from private persons 25 per cent. of households had to share an inside W.C.; 13·8 per cent. had to share an outside W.C.; 70 per cent. had no fixed bath; and 47 per cent. had no hot water tap? Does he agree that that is a disastrous situation which should be corrected, and that it is far better just to miss the bull's eye of a target than not to have a target to aim at?

The first part of the hon. Gentleman's question certainly shows the need for a campaign for more improvements to be done as well as building where required. I disagree with the second part of his question. The last Government proved that to set a target, to hold out hopes to the general public of meeting a certain figure and then to miss it by over 5,000, is worse than having no target.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that he is supposed to be in the middle of a campaign to improve such houses and that we should have a progress report on it at some stage? Will he consider publishing a White Paper or statement to tell us, when he gets the figures, what the needs are and what progress has been made? Does he recognise that the fall-off in new building is one of the most alarming things in the Scottish housing position?

When the returns are in I will certainly consider the best way of giving the House information about needs in the different areas and Scotland as a whole, as it comes out of them. As to the fall-off in starts, the hon. Gentleman knows better than any of us about this, because it started between 1968 and 1969, when there was a drop of nearly 5,000, followed by a drop of 3,000 between 1969 and 1970.

This is becoming a rather thin alibi. You must be tired of hearing it, Mr. Speaker. The houses in 1968 and 1969 to which the right hon. Gentleman referred are built. We are talking now about houses which are to be built or which should be built. The right hon. Gentleman should address himself to 1970 and 1971 instead of going back three years.

But the houses to be completed in 1970–71 are the houses that were started a year or two before that. [Interruption.] The question was about the drop in starts, and I accurately reminded Labour hon. Members, though they may not like it, of when that drop started. We are determined by a combination of public authority building and encouragement of the private sector, by recently lifting the restrictions on local authority mortgage lending, by improvements, by a special subsidy for slum clearance, and in other ways, to get the best possible housing in the places in Scotland where it is needed.

rose—

Order. I am very much under criticism for not getting through sufficient Questions at Question Time. The reason is that right hon. and hon. Members, I think, tend to use it as an opportunity for debate. We should not have debate at Question Time.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many applications from landlords were submitted to rent officers in Scotland for rent increases and rejected because of the sub-standard condition of the houses involved.

This information is not available, as the reasons for rent officers' decisions are not recorded.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that it has been my experience in my constituency that applications have been submitted by property owners for rent increases on property which has been sub-standard and that, because of intervention by myself and others, the local authorities concerned have been induced to condemn the houses involved? Does not he think it time to instruct rent officers not to accept applications for houses which are not meeting the tolerable standards?

It is possible for there to be cases where an application for a rent increase for a house which is substandard is made, and if the present rent for the house is below what the rent officer considers to be reasonable for it, then in spite of its condition this could happen. But I think the hon. Gentleman will agree that the procedures for the rent officers are not ones in which anyone should intervene. They do an independent job and they should be left to get on with it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received from individuals, organisations and local authorities objecting to the division of Fife arising from the reform of local government proposals for Scotland; and if he will make a statement.

Objections have been received from three individuals, seven organisations, and 12 local authorities, none of which brings out any consideration which has not already been taken into account.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the trickle of objections now will become a flood in the months to come? Does not he agree that the imposition of toll charges for crossing a road bridge over a river within a region is wrong and an unjust expense for those who have to travel across the river to reach the centre of the region? Will he reconsider his proposals in respect of Fife?

On the question of tolls, the answer is "No". Our reasons for the proposed division of Fife are set out in paragraph 48 of the White Paper on the Reform of Local Government. The objective evidence makes it clear that on the basis of practical needs and community of interest, South Fife would best be included in the region centred on Edinburgh, and North Fife in the east region. The Wheatley Commission took the same view.

My right hon. Friend has granted a separate regional authority to the Borders and he and the Government are fighting against inflation. Does he not agree that, unless he can prove that the breaking-up of Fife brings commensurate financial benefits, it would be a wilful act to put an additional cost on the ratepayers of Fife? Is this not something he should resist?

I agree that financial as well as other considerations must be borne in mind. I remind my hon. Friend that my own county of Moray and Nairn is one of the most efficient in the country but I nevertheless propose that it should be split between two regions also.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what official visits he has made to Rolls-Royce sub-contractors in Scotland.

I have made no official visit to any of the firms in Scotland which are known to have undertaken sub-contract work for Rolls-Royce Limited. It is generally known that I am very concerned about the problems facing these sub-contractors.

Will the figures of the latest redundancies among subcontractors of Rolls-Royce be given in the Government's statement on the RB211 engine tomorrow?

I cannot answer that without notice.

Why not?

I will certainly pass the hon. Gentleman's request to my right hon. Friend. The hon. Gentleman knows that I am concerned about this, and the tenor of the current negotiations on the future of the RB211 shows the Government's concern as a whole.

Does the right hon. Gentleman know who the sub-contractors are?

I cannot be absolutely certain that I know every firm which might be doing something, but I think we have them all.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland by whom he was represented at the Home Office Drugs Conference at Moreton-in-the-Marsh during the week beginning 15th March; and if he will make a statement.

This conference was held for police officers experienced in drugs squad duties.

Is the hon. Gentleman satisfied with the training of drug squads in drug detection?

Police in Scotland receive introductory training at Tulliallan Police College and more advanced training at the Scottish Detection Training School. During the visits I have made to police forces, I have been impressed by the concern of police officers about this problem and the way they are dealing with it.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on its discussions with local authorities regarding the level of future expenditure.

I discussed with the local authority associations the matters covered in my Report on the Rate Support Grant (Scotland) Order, 1971, which we debated in this House on 16th March, and I am about to issue a circular drawing the attention of local authorities to the report.

Will the right hon. Gentleman accept that the rate support grant does not cover housing subsidies? Will he, therefore, in his subsequent meetings, draw to the attention of the local authorities the fact that the figure of housing subsidies in the 1970s will be £230 million, which will have to be spread over both the public and the private sectors, and that the total effect will be less public housing in Scotland?

I do not necessarily accept the hon. Gentleman's hypothesis but my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Development is engaged in consultations with the local authorities on the whole question of housing finance.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement regarding the advice given by his Department on the education of the mentally handicapped.

The most recent general advice was my right hon. Friend's invitation to education authorities in October to assume responsibility for the education and training of children in mental and mental deficiency hospitals from the beginning of session 1971–72.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that interesting reply. Does he not concede that there is now becoming an obvious need in Scotland for cooperation between the local authorities in establishing some form of centre to give advice and the benefit of experience in up-to-date techniques in assessing the ability of the mentally handicapped?

I will look further into that point, but I understand that the degree of co-operation at present is of a high level.

Will the hon. Gentleman also bear in mind the special problem of young people who are mentally ill? Many of them are kept in hospital wards where most of the patients are much older or are geriatric patients. Will he take steps to see that provision is made in many areas for dealing separately with the problems of mentally-ill young persons?

This is a very important problem and I shall be glad to look into any cases of difficulty which the hon. Gentleman has in mind.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the action now to be taken in Scotland to warn of the dangers of cigarette smoking.

Scotland will be associated with all the measures announced by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services in his statement to the House on 16th March. As previously announced, the Scottish Health Education Unit will almost double its anti-smoking activities this year, and will, I hope, make an even stronger impact through the use of television than it did last autumn.—[Vol. 813, c. 1189–98.]

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. Is the Scottish Office currently commissioning, or carrying out, research into the so-called safe cigarette?

I cannot answer that without notice, but I am not aware of such research at present. I remind my hon. Friend that it was in Scotland last autumn that the first British anti-smoking television advertising was carried out.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what assistance or guidance is being given to local authorities in Scotland on the provision of family planning advice.

Local authorities now have very wide powers to develop these services according to the needs of their particular areas. Following the guidance given in my right hon. Friend's circular of 10th August, provision has been made in the Rate Support Grant as stated in the debate on the Grant Order on 16th March for arrangements in their areas.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Can he assure me that everything will be done not only to educate the general public in the facilities available but to educate those local authorities which do not seem to be using the facilities as they might?

The full extent to which the authorities will make use of the wider powers now available to them is not yet fully known, but such reports as I have make it clear that many of them are proposing to provide more comprehensive services.

How many, or what percentage of, local authorities have already decided to make use of these greater facilities?

The number is considerable. If the hon. Gentleman will put down a Question, I shall be glad to give detailed information.

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether local authorities intend to provide these facilities themselves, or to provide financial assistance to other organisations to provide the facilities? Will he at some time tell the House about the ramifications of the kind of work which family planning units do?

Local authorities have the power to provide these facilities, or to arrange for them to be provided through an organisation such as the Family Planning Association. If a debate on the subject were initiated, I should be only too glad to provide whatever information hon. Members wished to have.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will consider taking steps to insert a Scottish body into the administration of meat production.

I presume that my hon. Friend is referring to the Meat and Livestock Commission. I have no reason to believe that Scottish interests are not adequately served through its existing organisation.

Is not my hon. Friend aware that Scotland has made a better job of livestock production than has any other country for at least 100 years, and that livestock production is a more important part of Scottish agriculture than English livestock production is of English agriculture? If a body of this kind is necessary, why not a Scottish body?

This body also performs English functions, and I remind my hon. Friend that it has a very strong Scottish office and two very active Scottish members who do an excellent job looking after the interests of Scottish producers?

Would the hon. Gentleman ensure that whatever organisation is interposed consumers in Scotland are not fleeced by high prices for meat products by the changes in the levy system and by the present opportunism of livestock producers and butchers?

I remind the hon. Gentleman, in case he does not know, that the Commission has a consumers' committee, on which there is a Scottish member. I assure him that housewives and consumers generally in Scotland have their interests safeguarded by the present Government.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what information is available to him as to the number of chain-saw operators in Scotland who are suffering from the form of vibration effect known as white fingers; and if he will make a statement.

The only information available suggests that up to one-third of the Forestry Commission's regular chain-saw operators in Scotland are affected by vibration syndrome in varying degrees. Vibration may be reduced by improved techniques and suitably modified saws; the Commission is introducing both.

As there must be much unknown information about chain-saw operators not in the Forestry Commission, would my hon. Friend consider whether some arrangement could be made for an alteration to the chain-saws now in use so as to stop this symptom from developing?

The Forestry Commission has successfully encouraged some saw manufacturers to develop anti-vibration mountings and is replacing its own saws with suitably modified models. Naturally, we hope that other manufacturers will follow suit.

Surely the hon. Gentleman has made an error by saying "only one-third". He must be very concerned that it is as much as one-third.

Of course I am, and I did not use those words. What I said was "up to one-third".

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what plans he has to replace the coal-burning vessels of the Scottish Fishery Protection Fleet; and if he will make a statement.

One will be replaced later this year by the research vessel "Scotia" when the latter ceases to be required for fisheries research: replacement of the other will depend on decisions to be taken on the future of the protection service in the light of the recommendations of the Cameron Committee.

Would not my hon. Friend agree that, in view of our application to join the E.E.C. and as my right hon. and hon. Friends will insist that coastal waters are protected, we shall need very good protection vessels, so that it is essential to replace all coal-burning vessels immediately?

I accept what my hon. Friend says about the need to provide proper protection for our fishermen in Scotland, and that is precisely why we are replacing one of these vessels and, when there is an opportunity, will certainly replace the other, too.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what initiatives he is taking to ensure that more Government and other public departments move to those parts of Scotland with a surplus of labour.

The Government intend to pursue a policy of dispersing Government offices from London. A new study to determine whether further work can be located elsewhere is in progress. The claims of those parts of Scotland with a surplus of labour will not be overlooked, though I can give no undertaking with regard to particular locations at this stage.

Would the right hon. Gentleman recognise that Glenrothes is the only new town in Scotland which does not have an institution such as I suggest should be put into areas like that? In view of the increasing redundancies in Glenrothes, would the right hon. Gentleman look on any request from the Glenrothes Development Corporation with sympathy?

I am aware of the position in Glenrothes. As the hon. Gentleman knows, I was made aware of it on the ground when I made a recent visit there. It is something about which I am particularly concerned. I was, of course, involved in the decision of the previous Conservative Government to move the National Savings Bank to Glasgow, and I later attended the opening ceremony.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the announcement by the Chancellor of the Exchequer about income tax centres will affect the proposals for Edinburgh? Secondly, is there any indication that he is carrying on the work to get the Forestry Commission moved from England to Scotland, which we were about to effect?

My hon. Friend the Financial Secretary told the House on 7th December that the Government had instituted a review of the Inland Revenue mechanisation programme, and in that context work on all the computer centres, except those already under construction, is being suspended for the time being. We have one already at East Kilbride, of course, and it is still having some teething troubles with taxpayers. Moving the Forestry Commission is a hypothetical question at present.

Would my right hon. Friend bear in mind that national policy is to reduce the bureaucracy, especially in England, and that there are eight times as many Sassenachs as Scots? Would he bear in mind that it would be wholly improper to reduce bureaucracy south of the Border only to increase it north of the Border in places like Glenrothes, and that I would strongly disapprove of that?

I can reassure my hon. Friend, because we can achieve both objectives; that is to say, by reducing bureaucracy in England and transferring to Scotland, we can end with a lower total.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what steps he has taken to increase employment in the construction industry.

I brought forward £1·75 million of essential public works into the past winter; I am urging local authorities which have a need for new housebuilding to submit proposals; and I am launching a campaign to stimulate house improvement. More generally, the Budget proposals introduced by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer should help employment in the industry, as should also the lifting of restrictions on local authorities lending for mortgages.

How can the right hon. Gentleman be so damnably complacent about this matter? Does he not recognise that the latest figure of unemployment in the building industry is more than 26,000? Has he not seen the figures on the front pages of the Glasgow Herald today showing that the unemployed are not only unskilled but include large numbers of skilled people, from plumbers to building electricians and others? Is it not an absolute outrage that at a time when the housing problem is so urgent in Scotland this number of men, women and boys should be denied an opportunity to make a contribution to the solution of the problem?

I am not in the least complacent. I deplore the situation which the hon. Gentleman has described, and I blame the last Government, which departed from office last June when they could have been in office up to this month. The halving of S.E.T. should now help the construction industry as much as any other measure which could be taken at present, and I am glad to be able to tell the hon. Gentleman that the road programme in Scotland should certainly expand during this financial year.

Does not the Secretary of State realise that in the Glasgow area recruitment is already going on among the 8,000 people in the building industry who are unemployed and that they are being recruited to build houses in parts of England which are already comparatively well off for housing? Is not this a commentary on the disgraceful misuse of resources at one end of the country where the need is much less while there is a great need at the other end? Should not something be done quickly to expand the housebuilding programme in Scotland?

If the hon. Gentleman will look at my original reply, he will see that that is what I said.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the grossly unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many civil servants, industrial and non-industrial, are employed in the Scottish Office; and how these figures compare with those for last year.

The numbers at 1st March, 1970, were 8,146 non-industrials and 942 industrials. At 1st March, 1971, there were 8,327 and 958 respectively. The latter numbers are below those authorised by the previous Government for 1st April, 1971.

Apart from a vast Ministerial superstructure, do not these figures and the increase announced by the right hon. Gentleman reveal that Scotland must be the most expensively governed country in the world—

Misgoverned.

—in view of the meager results disclosed in all the answers to Questions today?

No, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what facilities for orthodontic treatment are presently available at Victoria Hospital, Kirkcaldy; and if he will make a statement.

Only consultative facilities are at present available in the orthodontic clinic at Victoria Hospital, and patients requiring treatment travel to Edinburgh. The South-Eastern Regional Hospital Board is considering how the premises, equipment and staff at the clinic can be expanded to enable treatment facilities to be provided at Kirkcaldy.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this problem has been under consideration for quite a number of years and that there are a large number of children who have to travel to Edinburgh, which is expensive both in parents' time and in money? Would he not consider directing the hospital board to use the empty facilities in the orthopaedic hospital to provide the necessary orthodontic services?

I am aware that the hon. Gentleman has been pressing this matter for a considerable time. The decision is really for the hospital board, which has decided that treatment facilities should be provided and is considering how this can be done.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on Her Majesty's Government's advice to local authorities concerning the administration of sites for use by gypsies and other travelling people.

In a recent circular my right hon. Friend drew authorities attention to the relevant recommendations in the report on "Scotland's Travelling People", and to the grants being made available to local authorities in this connection, adding that his Department would be glad to supplement the advice about the administration of sites.

Has my hon. Friend received any reaction from the travelling people to his proposals? Does he share my belief that there will be a wide welcome for this positive response to their problems?

I thank my hon. Friend for what he has said, and I am glad to be able to tell him the Travellers Liaison Committee has warmly welcomed the new proposals made by my right hon. Friend. I am certain that with good will on all sides this may herald a new era for the travelling people.

Can the hon. Member give me the assurance that he will expedite any request for assistance he may receive from Lanarkshire County Council with regard to the two sites it has made available? Is he aware that literally every weekend when I go back to my constituency I am bogged down with this problem over Bellshill and that local councillors tell me that it is because of the inactivity of the Scottish Office that they are not able to deal with this?

I can tell the hon. Gentleman that I have no information at all to suggest that my Office is any way behindhand in helping with these matters. If there are any problems which the Lanarkshire County Council would like sorted out, it is welcome to come to my Department, and also to Lord Birsay's Advisory Committee, which ought to be able to help, too.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he will make a further statement about the shortage of secondary teachers in 1972–73 and in the years immediately thereafter.

My right hon. Friend hopes to do so before the end of this year when various studies being undertaken by his Department have been completed.

Is my hon. Friend aware that although recent figures show there may have been a welcome but marginal improvement in the position, some questions must be asked about the seriousness of his belief that we can responsibly raise the school-leaving age throughout Scotland in the light of the serious teacher shortage in certain areas?

My hon. Friend rightly says that the figures which my right hon. Friend gave in an answer on 29th March are very encouraging. The position is that most education authorities should have little difficulty in coping with the demands imposed by the raising of the age but I recognise that a few of them are likely to have serious problems. I will do all I can to see that the understaffed areas get a fair share of the increased supply of teachers.

Surely the hon. Member realises that nowhere in Scotland is there any sense, in educational circles, that the Government are seized of the importance of this problem? Is he relying on the mounting unemployment figures, especially among graduates and skilled workers, to supply the deficiency? How many have applied since the Rolls-Royce crisis for admission to Jordanhill Training College?

The hon. Gentleman's question is outrageous. We have inherited a situation in which we have a serious teacher shortage. We have taken many steps to help. As for the hon. Member's question about Rolls-Royce, he must be aware of the endeavours made by the Department to harness all the energies and skills which will be available.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland, in view of the need for an early start on building the new regional road in East Fife, if he will now give a firm commencement date.

Preliminary surveys for this scheme are in progress: until they are completed its priority cannot be finally determined.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that that is a most disappointing reply? In view of the Government's disastrous change in regional development policy, which has caused a considerable run-down in the number of new industries coming to Fife, will be regard the making of the East Fife regional road as a first priority and issue the necessary order at the earliest opportunity?

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that there is no hold-up in the process of preparing for this road. Preliminary surveys have involved the survey of 12½ miles of countryside much of which is over ground liable to subsidence and very difficult from the road construction point of view. I can assure the hon. Member that there will be no delay in putting forward these procedures. As soon as these are complete, we shall be able to establish when and how the road can be completed.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what proportion of the total Exchequer support for agriculture under the 1971 Price Review he estimates will go to hill and upland farmers in Scotland.

No precise estimates can be made of the proportion of Exchequer support going to particular classes of farmers. Hill and upland farmers are estimated to get £14·2 million in specific hill farming subsidies in 1971–72 in addition to a share of the other capital and production grants and deficiency payments.

While welcoming the additional cash flow that will result from the last Price Review, particularly in the hill areas, may I ask my hon. Friend to give the House an assurance that this is but a first step towards improving the productivity of these vital areas in the uplands of Scotland?

I believe that producers in the hill and upland areas have an important part to play in the total agricultural production. What took place in the Price Review is proof of our endeavour to help them.

Does the Minister believe that the cuts in the lime and fertiliser subsidy, the ending of grants to pest clearance societies and the charges for what was formerly free technical assistance to the industry in the hill and upland areas will assist productivity and production in those areas?

I would like the hon. Gentleman to acknowledge the fact that the award for sheep producers in this Review is the biggest single award ever made. I would also invite him to read some of the comments by farmers in the hill and upland areas. Then I think he will take back some of the things he has said.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what expansion he has in mind for Scottish agriculture as a result of the 1971 Price Review.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what will be the effect of the 1971 Price Review on the agricultural industry in Scotland.

The determinations at the 1971 Annual Review are designed to provide the resources and the confidence necessary for expansion of agriculture in Scotland, in particular the production of meat and cereals.

I congratulate my hon. Friend on a most excellent review for agriculture. Do the Government have any plans in mind about the need to stop the constant drift from the land which has gone on for so long?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for what he has said. Judging from the comments in Scotland about the review, it seems to have received a very general welcome. The measures we are taking to increase the prosperity of Scottish agriculture generally should help to deal with the problem of the drift from the land.

If it was such a splendid review, why did the National Farmers Union just note it?

I know that the hon. Gentleman does not read all the agricultural journals or go to all the agricultural meetings, even in his constituency. I suggest that if he did that for a week or two he might change his view.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what further representations he has received, from which bodies, and what replies he has sent, concerning the implications of the European Economic Community fisheries policy should the United Kingdom join the Common Market.

With permission, I will circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT the list of bodies from which my right hon. Friend has received representations on this subject since 13th January. The replies have emphasised the Government's awareness of the problems which could arise and the fact that the United Kingdom position was reserved at the outset of our entry negotiations in June last year.

But does not my hon. Friend realise that the Government's reservation of our position is very cold comfort to the fishermen? Can he assure us that before steps are taken to enter the Common Market the Government will give assurances that the fishery limits will be inviolate?

I remind my hon. Friend that at this stage we are not in any way committed to the common fisheries policy of the Six. I assure him that we shall do everything we can to protect the interests of the inshore fishing industry in Scotland.

Referring to the second part of the Question, will the hon. Gentleman seek to make more widely known precisely what the E.E.C. fishing regulations are, because, as I understand them, even if we adhered to them, we would still be able to prevent trawling within our fishing bank areas?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that point. We are at present studying the effects of the E.E.C. regulations in detail and we shall try to inform the industry as we go along. We have already made a lot of information available to the fishermen's associations and to others who have asked for it.

Why are the Government taking so long to complete the study? Surely the regulations are perfactly clear and their application is easily understood. What we and the entire fishing industry in Scotland want to know is not that the Government are studying the problem but that they have some solutions to put forward.

What we are concerned about is the application of the regulations to ourselves and the other applicant countries. That matter requires a great deal of study. The Government reserved their position last June, long before the hon. Gentleman showed any concern for the problems of the inshore fishermen.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received from local authorities in Ayrshire regarding exclusion of parts of Ayrshire from the special development area for West Central Scotland; and what reply he has sent.

I have received letters on this subject from the town councils of Kilmarnock and Galston. The replies have explained that the unemployment and other problems of the areas designated are significantly greater than those elsewhere in West Central Scotland.

Will the right hon. Gentleman look at the Questions which I have been asking the Department of Employment, the last one being on 25th March? He will discover that in the exchange areas of Kilmarnock, Ayr and Cumnock the unemployment figure is between 4,000 and 5.000 and is still rising, and that it is higher than in the contiguous areas of Lanarkshire, Renfrewshire and Ayrshire which are included in the special development area. It is nonsensical to leave out the industrial centre of Ayrshire, which employs many people from a wide surrounding area. Will the right hon. Gentleman have another look at this matter?

The boundary of the special development area was drawn with considerable care. The S.D.A. is very large and includes the areas of the Glasgow conurbation which are most in need of jobs. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman is not being critical of one of the most far-reaching and speedy measures of regionial development in Scotland for many years.

There is a male unemployment rate of over 8 per cent. in the Ayr employment exchange area, which is in the constituency of the hon. Member for Ayr (Mr. Younger).

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will now give the latest information on the teachers' wage negotiations.

As the hon. Member will be aware, the Scottish Teachers Salaries Committee has agreed that teachers' salaries should be increased by 81 per cent. with effect from 1st April.

The organisations which represent the teachers are saying that this is an interim award and they feel that, bearing in mind the very serious shortage of teachers, particularly in secondary schools, they have been let down as in many cases private industry can give increases of 17 per cent.? Will the situation be rectified as quickly as possible?

This is an agreement, and it is only fair to point out that Scottish teachers' pay has risen by about 25 per cent. in just over a year. It was a condition of the management side's offer that the next general review of salaries should not take effect earlier than 1st April next year.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what request he has received from the Lanarkshire Education Authority for its share of the £4 million allocation for primary school replacements; and what is his decision.

My right hon. Friend has still to receive details of the projects which Lanarkshire Education Authority wishes to be considered.

In view of the very serious position concerning primary school building in Lanarkshire, has the closing date of 31st March, which the hon. Gentleman gave me before, been extended? If not, will the hon. Gentleman get in touch with the Lanarkshire local authority in the interests of the children in various parts of the county to ensure that, for a change, it measures up to its responsibilities?

There have been various difficulties—the postal strike, to mention one. We have been keeping closely in touch with the authorities concerned. I can give an assurance that Lanarkshire's application, when it comes, will be considered along with the others. There will be no discrimination.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what instructions he has given to Ministers in his Department about official broadcasts by them.

To discuss clearly and frankly Government policy.

Is there a new practice of allowing junior Ministers at the Scottish Office to appear on programmes, other than to make official broadcasts, in which they digress on matters in general? If so, will the right hon. Gentleman explain it to the House?

It is not new. It was carried out—I was one of those concerned with it—by the Government who were in office up to 1964.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how much public money will be spent on improvements to Peel Hospital over the next five years.

Schemes at present in the regional board's programme involve expenditure of about £76.000 during the period April, 1971, to March, 1976.

Will the hon. Gentleman recognise that it is very important that as quick a decision as possible is taken about a starting date for the new hospital, and that Peel Hospital is so sub-standard that it will require substantial sums of money over the next few years until the new hospital is built?

The programme of major hospital building projects to start from 1972–73 onwards already includes provision for a development of about 90 geriatric beds and central services to start on the site for the new district general hospital. Any review of this programme arising from the additional allocation is not likely to provide for additional phases of this hospital.

asked the Minister for the Civil Service (1) what action he proposes to take to change the situation whereby 6,000 civil servants receive salaries above those received by junior Ministers, who are Ministerially superior to these civil servants, some with salaries of up to £9,000 per annum as against the junior Minister's £3,750;

As my right hon. Friend the Lord President of the Council announced on 4th December, 1970, the whole question of the emoluments, allowances, expenses and pensions of Ministers and Members of the House of Commons will be investigated by the new Review Body on higher level salaries in the public sector. The same body is to review the pay of senior civil servants.—[Vol. 807, c. 1723–4.]

Is the hon. Gentleman (aware that 1that has been the usual evasive reply that we have received over the past two years? In view of the facts contained in both these Questions—and I speak as a trade unionist with three trade union cards—may I ask the hon. Member whether he can see any good trade unionist accepting the principle whereby the officer in charge of a Department should be receiving a third of the salary received by those over whom he has control? Surely this is something that has been known for years and there is no need for a review body? When can we have an announcement about this review body which was mentioned two years ago by his predecessor? Will he get cracking and get something done?

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's zest in pursuing these matters, but they are for the Review Body. He asks whether an announcement will be made. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister will be making an announcement tomorrow.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that procrastination and pious protestation every time Questions are answered is most frustrating? Does he understand that we have Ministers at £8,500 a year appointing heads of nationalised industries at £25,000 a year and civil servants at £14,000 a year and parliamentary draftsmen at four times the salary I receive? Where on earth is a parliamentary draftsmen to be found who is worth four times what I get?

These are all value judgments on which different people have different views. The Review Body will be set up and will take due account of the need for speed. As I said, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister will make an announcement tomorrow.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply and the fact that we have been told that something will happen but it never does, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.