asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he is now in a position to make a statement on the latest developments with Giro and the prospect for Giro transactions for the rest of the current trading period.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will now make a further statement on the future of the National Giro.

I hope to be able to make a statement soon.

I appreciate that it may be difficult to give a longer answer now, but does not my right hon. Friend agree that there is considerable uncertainty about the Giro and that the sooner it is allayed, the better? If the question mark against its commercial viability continues, changes might, even with regret, be necessary.

I appreciate what my hon. Friend says. I am anxious to get an answer quickly, but I am more anxious to get the right answer.

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that now that the teething troubles are over, the prospects of the Giro being a viable enterprise are ap- parent? Will he give an assurance that it will not be axed, as so many other things under the Tory Government?

As the hon. Gentleman indicated, this interprise got off to a very unfortunate start. There are certainly errors to be retrieved, but I am not in a position to comment further today.

Is the right hon. Gentleman making any progress in persuading his colleagues in the Government to encourage their Departments to use this service?

I cannot add to my reply to that point on a previous occasion that I answered Questions.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what consultations he has had in the last month with interested parties concerning the introduction of commercial radio.

One, with representatives of the Advertising Standards Authority.

Why did the right hon. Gentleman make the statement that there would not be a surfeit of "pop" on the commercial radio network? Is it not the case that this is all we shall have?

No. The agreements which govern the broadcast of recorded music make it almost certain that the new commercial stations will not be able to put out as a high a volume of "pop" as Radio One. If it is "pop" music that the hon. Gentleman objects to, I should have thought that that wavelength would be the object of his ire. The programmes which will be broadcast by the commercial stations will, as the White Paper said, have to achieve a better balance than that.

Can my right hon. Friend say what is wrong with "pop" when the B.B.C., in particular, supplies a market which demands it? Does he agree that the Musicians' Union and other interested bodies must be assured that "needle time" will be reduced to a proper level?

I agree with my hon. Friend: I see nothing wrong with "pop". I am rather puzzled by the apparent assumption among Labour Members that sweet music is always to be preferred to "pop"—it is probably something to do with the generation gap. On the question of recorded music, the "needle time" agreements, to which my hon. Friend referred, will have to be a matter for negotiation between the parties concerned.

Will the right hon. Gentleman take it from me that perhaps my hon. Friends feel, as I do, that there is more money in "pop" than in sweet music? It is very sweet "pop". Now that the right hon. Gentleman has had the opportunity to discuss the White Paper with the Advertising Association, the broadcasting associations and the trade unions, when are we in Parliament likely to be able to make our voices heard? When would the right hon. Gentleman like to hear our views on the important subject of commercial broadcasting?

It is not for me to make announcements about future debates in the House, but my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House has made it clear that there will be a debate on this subject in due course.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications when he expects to be able to announce a timetable for the establishment of commercial radio in London.

This will not be possible until legislation authorising the provision of the new service has been enacted.

Does my right hon. Friend not agree that, although it may seem surprising to many members of the Opposition, many people in London are looking forward with some anticipation, and indeed eagerness, to the creation of a commercial radio service in Greater London? Therefore, does he not also agree that this should be governed by two important criteria: first, that it should be brought in as soon as possible to avoid unnecessary delay; secondly, that there might be another Government look at the proposal for two stations in London to see whether more might not be created?

I take note of what my hon. Friend says and I entirely agree that it is a limited number of people who have an aversion to an enlargement of choice in this matter.

Could the Minister assure the House that he will drop the proposal, trailed in the White Paper, for a newsvending station operating in London? Will he not accept that the cost of such an operation would demand resources at least equivalent to Independent Television News and an organisation controlled by the I.B.A., just as is I.T.N., and not susceptible to the whims of financial gain?

No, I would not accept any of that. The majority of people involved in radio broadcasting, of whatever kind, are impressed by a number of the all-news stations that operate in the United States. It is not true that radio news is as expensive as television news, and whereas no decisons have been taken about the best source for radio news, this is one suggestion that is worth considering.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will issue a general direction to the Post Office that they seek to install public telephones on all station platforms.

No, Sir. This would not be a suitable subject for a general direction.

That is the second disappointing reply we have had on this subject. As the Minister will not do anything to try to get us telephones on trains, will he get them on railway station platforms where we are equally the prisoners of British Rail? There are no telephones on the platforms at Euston. At Birmingham they are on the right side of the ticket collector, but a long way from the platforms. At many stations they are even outside the premises.

I am sorry to cause disappointment to the hon. Gentleman, but I should be abusing my powers under the 1969 Act if I were to issue general directions on the subject.

In his discussions on this subject with British Rail, will my right hon. Friend stress the special needs of the disabled?

I am sure that the Post Office, which has responsibility in this matter, will take account of what my hon. Friend has said.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what consultations he has had with the Post Office Board about their plans for an increase in the first class letter rate of 92 per cent. above the rate introduced on 15th February.

None, Sir. I know of no such plans.

Is the Minister aware that if there is to be an increase in the cost of postage stamps from five old pence as was the situation on 15th February last, to four new pence next 15th February, this will represent a 92 per cent. increase? Does this not give credence to the view, held by many members of the Union of Post Office Workers, that the Minister has impressed upon the Chairman of the Post Office that he should take steps to exaggerate the impact upon the price of stamps of wage agreements which are now going through? Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that an increase in stamp charges of 92 per cent. in 12 months is fantastic when compared with the award to postmen of a mere 9 per cent.?

The hon. Gentleman will bear in mind that when the present Government came to power we found the Post Office with the largest-ever deficit on the postal side, and that is a contributory factor in the situation.

I have received no proposal of the kind the hon. Gentleman mentioned. His Question contains the words:

"above the rate introduced on 15th February."

I take it that he means the rate prevailing before 15th February.

Could my right hon. Friend impress on hon. Members opposite the fact that any statements alleged to have been made about increases will first have to come to the Post Office Users' National Council, as indeed will any suggestions for putting telephones on trains and in stations?

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Hampstead (Mr. Geoffrey Finsberg) who is a much valued member of the National Council.

May I remind the Minister that when last year he announced the largest single increase we have ever had in postal charges, he told the hon. Member for St. Ives (Mr. Nott) that the increases should be sufficient for the remaining quinquennium period to 1973–74? Does he still take this view in the light of what the Chairman of the Post Office said after the Hardman Committee reported?

No. The Chairman of the Post Office has made it clear that he is considering putting to the Government and to the Post Office Users' National Council proposals for a further increase.

But the Minister of State in reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Tottenham (Mr. Atkinson) said he had heard no suggestion that there should be an increase at all. As we are rather puzzled by this statement, would the right hon. Gentleman explain it a little further?

I heard no suggestion that there should be a 92 per cent. increase over the rate introduced on 15th February. As the House will know, and as has been made clear on a number of occasions in the House, the increase in costs since last summer makes it more than probable that there will need to be an increase earlier than was envisaged in the statement last July.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications to what extent the public is co-operating in using postcodes.

This is a management matter for the Post Office, but I understand that the response so far varies from area to area.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that these postcodes have placed more burdens on the general public, particularly when people initiate correspondence? Can he say what his predecessor in office could not tell me two years ago —what offset or economy there will be as a result of the introduction of these postcodes, if not in terms of money, in terms of manpower?

I cannot give my hon. Friend figures, but the postcodes undoubtedly will facilitate sorting in this as in most other Western countries. That is the reason postcodes are being introduced.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what general directions he intends to give to the Post Office Corporation arising from the recommendations of the Hardman Committee.

None, Sir; a general direction would not be appropriate. In any case, the Post Office has undertaken to accept the recommendations.

Has my right hon. Friend seen those sections of the report which say that the management side and union side in the Post Office have a cosy relationship which leads to inefficiency, excessive overtime and falling productivity? As this is not the first time such comments have been made about the Post Office, what does he intend to do about it?

Obviously, I am discussing the Hardman Committee's Report with the Post Office, which recognises its value and also recognises that there is now a unique opportunity to reconsider the structure and scope of the Post Office services appropriate to the 1970s.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, following the Report of the Hardman Committee, one distinguished member of the Post Office staff side said that the Post Office staff had lost faith in their employers? What action does the right hon. Gentleman propose to take to restore such faith and to bring about a harmonious relationship between the staff and their employers?

The Hardman Committee makes a number of suggestions which are directed towards that objective, and I know that those suggestions are being taken seriously by the Post Office.

Is the Minister aware that, in the view of many of us, the Report of the Hardman Committee lacked clarity on the important subject of incremental scales, a subject which affects all grades in the Post Office? Could the Minister help by suggesting to the Post Office a precise policy on incremental scales, spelling it out in greater detail?

I am sure that the Post Office will take note of what the hon. Gentleman said.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what steps he proposes to take as a result of the recommendation of the committee of inquiry into the postal pay dispute that the Post Office should be split into two separate corporations.

I have noted the Committee's comments, but I do not believe that there would be advantage in making so fundamental a change to the structure of the Post Office at this stage.

Would the Minister agree that the Post Office Corporation is an unnecessarily vast and unwieldy organisation and that no useful purpose can possibly be served by trying to run two entirely different Post Office functions, posts and telecommunications, under one board?

Without entering into argument with my hon. Friend, I would say that whereas there was a case for creating two separate corporations before the 1969 Act, I do not see any gain certain enough or large enough to justify further legislation and a further upheaval now.

Would the Minister reconsider his answer to me earlier when I said that the award to the postmen did not warrant an increase in stamp charges of 92 per cent., namely from five old pence to four new pence? The answer he then gave was that he had inherited a gross deficit. Is this not because of the separation of the services, and nothing to do with the wage award? Therefore, will he now be honest and answer the U.P.W. criticisms which accuse him of telling the Chairman of the Board that he must exaggerate the price increase to poison the mind of the public against wage rises in the public sector?

There has been no exaggeration at all by the Board about the effect of wage increases, and I do not believe that the Hardman Committee, majority or minority reports, suggested that there had been. Certainly the deficit is in no way due, as the hon. Gentleman suggests it is, to the separation of the two services.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will make a statement on the results of changing over to seven-figure telephone numbers.

I am told by the Post Office, which is responsible, that customers have responded well to the change-over in the six cities where all-figure numbering has been introduced.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that although seven-figure telephone numbers are obviously necessary for trunk calls, they are not necessary so much for local calls, which form the vast majority of calls made? Would he ask the Post Office to consider possibly reverting in some respect to the old exchanges, which were much easier to remember not only for subscribers but also for operators?

I agree that there were advantages in the old system in that it was much easier to remember. There would be very great difficulties in having a different system for local calls from that for trunk calls. In any case, this decision was taken some 5½ years ago, and there is no going back on it now.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will ensure that the development of the deep-water port and industrial complex at Foulness may proceed in advance of the building of the airport.

No, Sir. The Government will examine any such proposals in the light of good regional planning.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that the location of the airport having now been decided, it is in the interests of employment prospects locally not to hold back too long before considering further the industrial aspect of this area? If we are to regain any international trade from Rotterdam, the deep-water port aspect of the matter is becoming urgent.

This is a very important decision which we have to make and there are many factors, environmental, transportation and many others. It is right that the Government should look at the whole problem in terms of good planning.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how many general improvement areas have been defined and declared by local authorities under the Housing Act 1969.

134 general improvement areas have been declared by 98 local authorities in England.

Will the Minister say whether he is satisfied with this progress, bearing in mind the resolutions and definitions involved are only the first stage of the programme of creating general improvement areas? What steps is he taking to make local authorities press on with these developments?

One is never satisfied with the progress. One would always like to go faster. But many local authorities are pressing ahead with this, and my right hon. Friend's general improvement campaign will help. The hon. Member may be interested to know that Birmingham has declared seven G.I.A.s, five of them since last June, and is pressing ahead very fast.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what part of Clayton-le-Moors will be affected by the new trunk road for which his Department is responsible.

Stage 1 of the proposed Calder Valley route is now being investigated. This would pass through the Clayton-le-Moors area but it is not possible to say through which parts.

I understand the Minister's difficulties, but will he come to an early decision about the exact route that this road is likely to take? Is he aware that the present uncertainty is causing great anxiety to my constituents, many of whom are in an impossible position because they cannot sell their houses and do not know whether to spend money on improvements?

The results of our investigation are expected this year. Dependent on this investigation, the draft proposals for the route affected at Claytonle-Moors should be published in 1972.

Recognising how vital it is for industrial growth in North-East Lancashire that a speedy start be made on this, would the Minister indicate when construction is likely to start?

Assuming that there are no delays in the provision of the capital or other delays, work should start in 1975 and be completed in 1977.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if, following his review of the matter, he will introduce legislation to revise the law governing compensation in cases involving compulsory purchase, in view of the need for changes in the law in relation to areas designated for new towns.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he expects to announce his proposals regarding the reform of the law regarding compensation for planning blight.

I shall announce details of our proposals when our comprehensive review of the Compensation Code has been concluded. This review is going ahead with all speed.

Will my right hon. Friend accept that there are strong feelings of injustice at present about the operation of the present law and that this is particularly so among farmers, who find that the compensation which they are receiving is insufficient for them to restart farming in a like manner elsewhere? Will he have strong regard for the representations which have been made by the National Farmers' Union and others on this question?

Yes, Sir, but I ask my hon. Friend to regard the total complexity of the problem, which involves not just farmers, shopkeepers and commercial interests, but the owners of household property, problems of planning blight, roads and so on. Therefore, it is an immense task which we are undertaking. We are doing it with all speed.

I fully understand the complexity of the task and the importance of getting the decisions reached. Would the Minister say whether he hopes to introduce legislation in the next Parliamentary Session?

I cannot give that assurance, but I assure the hon. Gentleman that as soon as we have come to conclusions, we shall publish a White Paper and enter into discussions with the various organisations concerned, with the N.F.U., farming interests, and other people. I hope to introduce legislation at the earliest possible date.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman consider, as the previous Government announced over a year ago that it would be right to introduce legislation on planning blight, that a decision is long overdue? There are thousands of households throughout the country who are suffering from uncertainty, inconvenience and hardship because of the Minister dragging his feet on this matter.

On the contrary, when I arrived at the Ministry I discovered that the work on planning was totally inadequate.

Some of us have been urging action in regard to this matter for a great many years. Will the Minister confirm that his proposals will include an extension of the provisions for compensation for any injurious affection due to motorways, airfields and the like, where no land is compulsorily taken, which is a gap in the present law? Will he also improve the position with regard to compensation at site value in respect of clearance areas, where some hardship is suffered at present?

I know the long interest that my right hon. and learned Friend has taken in this topic. He will understand that I cannot at this stage start giving the detail of what our plans will be. But I assure him that the matters which he has mentioned will be given careful consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement on his recent official visit to Putney.

The purpose of my visit to Putney was to open the 5000th dwelling built by the present Borough of Wandsworth. All the current slum areas are expected to be eradicated within the next five years and the council is now embarking on an extensive rehabilitation programme. It must be congratulated on its performance.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the programme on which he readily congratulates Wandsworth Borough Council was initiated and mostly carried through under a Labour administration? Will he join in the general rejoicing when Wandsworth is restored to a Labour administration tomorrow?

No, Sir. The hon. Member's observations are as inaccurate as his predictions.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he now expects to announce his decision on the future expansion of Harlow New Town.

There will be no avoidable delay in coming to a decision on the expansion of Harlow, but this must be considered in the light of the planning strategy emerging from the report of the South-East Joint Planning Team. Before publishing any draft expansion proposals I shall also wish to consult the local authorities and the development corporation.

May I express my gratitude for that reply. My right hon. Friend will be aware that formerly it was held that the Roskill Commission's Report was holding up this decision. I should like to be assured that my right hon. Friend is aware of the urgency of this matter, because of both the shortage of housing, especially second-generation housing, and the shortage of jobs, which is growing because industrialists do not know whether they can expand, and some are talking of leaving the town because of that fact.

Such are the activities of my hon. Friend that it is impossible not to be aware of the urgency of this problem.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment (1) what instructions have been given, a ad under what powers, requiring the dimensions on plans accompanying applications for planning permission to be expressed metrically;

No such instructions have been given.

Would my right hon. Friend take that gratifying answer a little further and issue guidance to local planning authorities that they should not individually impose any such requirements in respect of plans accompanying these applications?

We are considering what advice to give local authorities on this subject. Certainly we shall not be suggesting that they impose this particular system.

Would my right hon. Friend say why the competition for the new parliamentary building was conducted entirely in metric?

That is a question of which I should need notice.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will now announce his decision on the two public inquiries held concurrently in September, 1970 relating to the A19 Teesside diversion trunk road proposals stage 1 and to the associated planning proposals by the Teesside County Borough Council for a link road in Middlesbrough on the eastern side of the proposed A19/A66 interchange.

I invite my hon. Friend's attention to my hon. Friend's answer to his previous question on 1st March. The issues are complex but I hope that my right hon. Friend will soon be able to announce a decision.—[Vol. 812, c. 338.]

I appreciate that I have been a perfect nuisance to my hon. Friend about this and that he has shown great courtesy in the matter. But in view of the fact that eight months have now elapsed since the inquiry, and that this is the crucial junction in Teesside, will my hon. Friend get his Department working flat out on it so that we may have an urgent decision and so that my hon. Friend can at least match the noble Lord, the Minister for the Arts, in giving us satisfaction in the North?

Far from being a perfect nuisance, my hon. Friend has been a perfect Member of Parliament. Certainly we are well aware of the urgency.

The hon. Gentleman will recall that the House recently passed legislation restricting the rights of individuals to object on the basis of getting speedier decisions in these matters. Will the hon. Gentleman undertake that his Department will try to get out decisions more quickly, in view of the great concern which has been expressed at the delays?

We would never dream of using those powers if we felt that they were an abuse of individual rights in any area.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what sub- jects he intends to discuss at his June meeting with the London boroughs.

My right hon. Friend will be writing to the boroughs in due course and will suggest in his letter the main topics to be discussed.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that normal family relationships are cruelly distorted when teenage youngsters are compelled to sleep with or in the same room as their parents? Is it not a good principle of civilisation that normal families should have access to and the privacy of their own lavatories? When the hon. Gentleman meets the London boroughs, will he tell them that he expects them to give the highest priority to the rehousing of families where teenage children are sleeping in the same bedrooms as their parents and where families have to go through someone else's bedroom or dining room to get to a lavatory at night? Should not these families have the highest priority for housing?

Certainly the problem of London's housing is extremely difficult, and I have great sympathy with what the hon. Gentleman said. My right hon. Friend has urged the London boroughs on many occasions to co-operate in this matter, and I believe that they are doing so.

It is on the agenda?

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he has yet made a decision on the introduction of legislation relating to the rights of house buyers as proposed by the Law Commission for England and Wales.

The Law Commission's proposals are still under consideration.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that houses in my constituency, including the Loggerheads, have developed very serious structural defects within a few years of being built and that young owner-occupiers find that they have no means of redress either through the courts or through the National House Builders Registration Council to remedy them? Is not it time that builders were made to face the financial consequences of their jerry building?

Certainly I agree with the hon. Gentleman. I do not know the specific case in his constituency to which he referred. If he will send me details, I will look at them. The National House Builders Registration Scheme now covers about 95 per cent. of new house building and is a worthy safeguard to new purchasers. Certainly we have to do everything in our power to support it.

Can the Minister say what is the responsibility of local authorities in the matters so properly drawn to his attention by my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Mr. Golding)?

I understood the Question to be related to private house buyers. New building is a matter for the National House Builders Registration Council and its voluntary scheme. Certainly we are giving the fullest consideration to the proposals of the Law Commission, but I am not yet in a position to make a statement.

Further to the point raised by the hon. Member for Burnley (Mr. Dan Jones), is not it a fact that there are some local authority powers in respect of building regulations and the like but that the safeguards and standards of the National House Builders Registration Council go considerably beyond those local authority requirements?

My right hon. and learned Friend is quite right. There are the building regulations responsibilities of the local authority, but the N.H.B.R.C. scheme goes a great deal further.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how many complaints he has received from staff in the Palace of Westminster about minor electric shocks received from carpeting; and what action he is taking to prevent this annoyance when new furnishings are introduced into the building.

Five. In each case, the carpet concerned was quickly and successfully treated with anti-static solution. I am watching the problem carefully and meantime I would like to assure the hon. Lady that it should not arise as regards the main areas of carpeting in the House.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the trouble still continues, that there has been no improvement, and that the shocks, though slight, are nevertheless uncomfortable and occur quite frequently in certain types of jobs to certain people, both men and women? Is the hon. Gentleman continuing the cure treatment, and has he given instructions that this type of carpet shall not be laid in the future?

The carpets have been treated with anti-static solution. I understood that the problem had been solved. If the hon. Lady says that it has not been solved, perhaps she will give me details, and I will look at them.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how much the Greater London Council has provided for council mortgages in the years 1969–70 and 1970–71.

£11·9 million in 1969–70 and £49·1 million in 1970–71.

Is my hon. Friend aware that that last figure represents a tenfold increase over the figure three years ago when the Labour Government slapped on controls? As the G.L.C. now receives applications at the rate of 400 to 500 a week, throwing the emphasis upon smaller and older houses, is not it a significant contribution made by the Tory-controlled G.L.C. to London's homeless?

All objective and fair-minded people will agree that it is a remarkable contribution.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that every report ever made on the subject has been quite clear that the major need in London is the building of houses for letting? On this count, has not the Tory-controlled G.L.C. failed lamentably?

That is a totally unfair distortion of the position.

Will the hon. Gentleman reconsider that last reply and accept that there has been a major reduction in the number of housing starts per year by the Greater London Council in the last three years, and is not that a process which is in urgent need of a complete reversal? There is a need for an immediate increase in local authority building by the G.L.C., as there is by other borough councils in London, in order to get over the problems which have been created by a reduction of one-third—10,000 housing starts—in the last three years by the Tories on an annual basis of housing construction.

We all know that the hon. Gentleman is very sensitive on this matter. However, I am answering a Question, to which he should address himself, about the amount of council mortgages, which his Government reduced to the point of utter meanness.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will take immediate steps to secure the removal of the remaining contractors' equipment and materials from the site above Green Park Underground Station and restore this part of the park to public use.

I appreciate my hon. Friend's concern but I cannot meet his request as the area will be needed again in the near future as a working site if the proposed Fleet Line goes ahead.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the position is becoming quite intolerable? It is years since the original construction was started and completed. A large area of the park has been sequestrated from people who should have the enjoyment of it. My hon. Friend gives no term to the length of time that we may have to wait before this miserable collection of shacks can be cleared.

I agree with my hon. Friend that the use of Green Park for this purpose is most objectionable. However, it would be unfortunate if an attempt were made to remove all the rubbish only for it to start again in a few months' time.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what meetings the Central Housing Advisory Committee held during April, 1971, and what decisions were taken concerning the Committee's future programme.

The Committee met on 26th April under the Chairmanship of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Housing and Construction. It was agreed that for the future meetings should be called as necessary to deal with specific housing matters. A further meeting was fixed for July.

Will my hon. Friend consider asking the Committee to prepare a report on closer involvement of council tenants in the management of their estates, thus following the excellent example of the Conservative-controlled G.L.C. and the London Borough of Camden?

I certainly take note of what my hon. Friend says, and I shall take the Committee's view on the matter when we have the opportunity of meeting in July.

Reverting to the original Question and answer, will the hon. Gentleman tell us whether there will be a reduction in the number of meetings of this very important and helpful Committee?

The timing and agenda of further meetings will be discussed in July. The intention at the moment is that meetings should be called to discuss specific topics. For example, on the next occasion the Committee will discuss the report of the Francis Committee.

Will there be a reduction in the number of meetings?

As I said, the timing and agenda is to be settled in July.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what agencies, other than local authorities and building societies, are currently making loans available to householders unable to meet the non-grant element of house improvement costs, and what steps he will take further to encourage such agencies.

I understand that the National Federation of Building Trade Employers are considering arrangements which they will be publicising shortly which will enable builders undertaking improvement work to offer loans to their customers. I consider this a most useful idea and shall be glad to give it all possible encouragement.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Does he plan to take any other steps to encourage such agencies? I am sure that he is aware that the non-grant element and the payment of it can act as a definite deterrent to people wishing to improve their property.

Yes, I entirely agree. But there is an increasing number of local authorities and building societies who will lend the other half of the grant to the person doing the improvement, and I hope that as many local authorities as possible will do so.

One of the most important elements in improvements is heating. Would the hon. Gentleman agree that it is worth having discussions with his hon. Friends in the Department of Trade and Industry with a view to the fuel industries being encouraged more extensively to provide capital for this element in improvement schemes?

I will consider what the hon. Gentleman said. I have been struck, in the large number of improvement grant campaigns which I have attended, by the very close interest which the fuel industries have taken in this scheme and the way in which they have done their utmost to try to further the cause of house improvement.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what response he has received following his communication with selected housing authorities encouraging the formation of housing aid centres; and if he will make a statement.

Ten local authorities have already set up housing aid centres and I understand that a further 14 have firmly decided to do so.

Is my hon. Friend aware how much help these centres give? Will he give every encouragement to local authorities to go on with this project? I know how much he is doing, but could he do even more? I am sure that most of us with urban constituencies find that it seems to take an unnecessarily long time before those with the housing problem meet those with the housing solution, and these centres will help greatly in that.

I entirely agree. My right hon. Friend is writing to a number of local authorities, asking them to help in this matter. The replies have been very encouraging, and a number of centres run by voluntary associations have done remarkably good work.

Has the hon. Gentleman received any apology from the London Borough of Brent for not turning up for the discussion which his hon. Friend was to have? Has it given any reason for turning down this idea? Would he do his best to make it change its mind?

I believe that the idea of a housing aid centre is suitable for many boroughs, but each borough must decide for itself, and Brent has decided that at the moment it does not want to pursue this idea.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what is the average level of increases recently announced in the housing cost yardstick; what arrangements have been made in respect of special allowances for old people's accommodation; and if he will make a statement.

The yardstick increases range from about 7 per cent. to about 12 per cent. according to the nature and location of the scheme. The largest increases are for low density and for old people's schemes. The allowances for the latter have been raised by £50 per dwelling.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there is some disquiet at the length of time that it took to update the yardstick, and also that the amount, particularly in Inner London, may not be as high as it should be?

I will certainly look at the figures for Inner London. If my hon. Friend has any evidence on that matter, I will be delighted to examine it. As to the length of time, my right hon. Friend has determined to make sure that the yardstick remains realistic. I believe that the new yardstick figures will prove to be realistic.

Since it is vital to maintain the best standard and design for council housing, will the hon. Gentleman consider varying the yardstick annually, rather than waiting, as at present, for five years before renewing it?

The hon. Gentleman is quite wrong. The yardstick has been changed several times. It was changed last year, I think on 1st April, and it was changed again this year. There has has been an annual review. The purpose is to keep this up to date and realistic—that is the important point.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what assessment his Department has now made of the response by housing authorities to the removal by the Government of the restriction on local authority mortgage lending and if he will make a statement.

The change has been generally welcomed, especially as a means of facilitating the purchase of older houses for improvement. I see no reason to alter the earlier forecast of a substantial increase in local authority mortgage lending this year.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there has been a wide welcome for the further steps to encourage would-be home owners which were announced in the debate last week? Can he confirm that a continuing increase in home ownership generally remains one of the Government's top priorities, and that he will keep the Government's full weight behind the efforts of local authorities?

Certainly, and my right hon. Friend has made this clear a number of times. The point which my hon. Friend raises about local authority mortgage lending will, I believe, be an extremely important step towards this end.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when the talks between the London Borough of Brent and his Department will take place concerning the future of the Grange at Neasden.

Such talks would be primarily between the London Borough of Brent and the Greater London Council but my Department will attend any meeting they may convene.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is a good deal of disquiet locally because, after three years of uncertainty, they are delighted that the Department has stepped in to save these historic buildings, but this is a key part of the redevelopment of the Neasden area, due to the bypass scheme? Will he do all he can to see that a decision is reached quickly, either between him and the local borough or between the three tripartite councils and his Department?

Certainly. We appreciate the urgency of this scheme and have refused to make amendments to it at this late stage, so that it can go ahead as quickly as possible.

Can the Minister tell me—

Order. The hon. Gentleman must allow me to call him. Mr. Foot.

Who lives at this historic building in Neasden? Is it Lord Gnome?

I think that the priority which the House would give is that of the house itself. It is a listed building which we seek to preserve.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what steps he intends to take to establish the pelican crossing on the A18 at Edenthorpe, which has been promised for more than 12 months.

An order was placed in April. Delivery is expected in July, with installation in August.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this is hardly satisfactory? This pelican crossing was proposed by his Department, in conflict with the opinion of the local people, the parish council and the rural district council, and we are now reaching a peak of heavy summer traffic to the coast in Yorkshire. Something should have been done before now to establish this crossing, before there is any further loss of limb and life?

The hon. Gentleman might have pressed that point on my predecessor. An order was placed in April, delivery is expected in July and the installation in August.

asked the Lord President of the Council if he will move to appoint a Select Committee to study the methods of allocating to Members visitors tickets in the Public Gallery.

The Services Committee would, I think, be the appropriate Select Committee to consider this. If there is a general wish amongst Members that the present system of allocation should be reviewed, I will certainly ask the Committee to do so.

In view of the present system whereby two tickets are sent to us every so often, and we may be on a parliamentary delegation to Timbuktu at the time—[Interruption.] I was giving a charitable reason for pocketing the tickets. Many are pocketed, and it is a little hard on those people who travel from far and wide and want to hear our debates but who are kept waiting outside, often when there are vacant seats in the Gallery.

Wherever hon. Members may go on delegations, it is true that sometimes the Gallery is not absolutely full at Question time. The difficulty arises from the fact that some Members take their automatic allocation of Strangers Gallery admission orders but neither use them nor return them to the Admission Order Office for reallocation to other Members. Perhaps I might take this opportunity to remind hon. Members that it would be most helpful if they would return unwanted admission orders as soon as possible to the Admission Order Office.

Will my right hon. Friend tell the hon. Member for West Lothian (Mr. Dalyell) that the Admission Order Office does everything it possibly can, and that I should be glad if he would stay in Timbuktu?

I must point out to my hon. Friend that the hon. Gentleman has not gone there yet; nor would I in any way wish to discuss or argue with her the relative merits of what he ought to do if he goes there.

I entirely agree that the Admission Order Office does everything it can to help. All I am saying is that it would be able to help still more if hon. Members would return unwanted orders.

asked the Lord President of the Council if he will arrange for facilities in the House of Commons for Members to play table tennis.

I have noted the hon. Member's topical suggestion, but I am afraid that there is no space available at the moment.

Will the right hon. Gentleman reconsider his answer, particularly bearing in mind that, unlike certain other suggestions for sporting and recreational activities in the House, a table tennis room could be provided with no structural alteration to the building and at absolutely minimum expense? This is a game which could be played, no doubt at widely varying standards, by most hon. Members. Will he also bear in mind that that facility would greatly help in entertaining parliamentary delegations, not perhaps from Timbuktu but from countries further east?

The problem is that there is a strong demand for any accommodation in the House of Commons area. I should point out that the Houses of Parliament Sports and Social Club, which is run for the benefit of the staff employed in the Palace of Westminster, has a table in its premises which it will be pleased to make available to hon. Members after 7 p.m. The club's premises are situated, perhaps appropriately enough, on the ground floor of the Lord Chancellor's residence.

In view of a recent international incident, will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind the beneficent results sometimes of ping-pong?

Certainly. I note what the hon. Gentleman says.

asked the Lord President of the Council whether in view of the increased work load now imposed on the House of Lords, he will move for an increase in the daily allowance.

No, Sir. It is not my direct responsibility.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise that I am now the self-appointed, unpaid, shop steward especially for the Labour Peers who are doing such a maginificent job of ensuring the full debate of the Industrial Relations Bill which this House was prevented from having? Will he show some compassion for this work in the public interest which is taking place along the other end of the corridor? Will he further tell us whether the pay of the Lords will come within the terms of reference of the Boyle Committee?

I note that the hon. Gentleman has ascribed to himself a particular role. I always understood that shop stewards were well aware of the particular conditions they were discussing and arguing for their members. Perhaps it might help the hon. Member in his new role if I point out that there is no daily allowance for attendance in the House of Lords. It is open to peers to claim reimbursement of expenses which they have actually incurred, up to a maximum of £6.50. This is not remuneration and is unrelated to the work load.

May I, as a more zealous shop steward for the absurd institution along the way than my hon. Friend, put in a request—[HON. MEMBERS: "Order. Withdraw."] I withdraw the word "absurd" and substitute "antiquated and ridiculous". As a shop steward for that, may I suggest that an hourly allowance be instituted, thus preventing the possibility of the fastest clocking in and clocking out in British industry?

Not being an expert in these matters, all I can say is that I have heard of very few shop stewards who start their job on the basis of decrying to the maximum the organisation of the people they are supposed to be representing. Therefore, the hon. Gentleman would not be a particularly satisfactory shop steward.

asked the Lord President of the Council whether he will now move to appoint a Select Committee on taxation.

I have no proposals to do so at the present time. Hon. Members will have noted, however, that we move to appoint a Select Committee on Corporation Tax.

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that there is support on both sides of the House for a proper Select Committee on Taxation and that the Select Committee on Corporation Tax only is a rather puny creature? Will he tell us what is so special about corporation tax that that alone can be studied while other taxes cannot? May we have an assurance that if the new Select Committee works, without scaring the pants off the Treasury too much, for a period of, say, six months, its remit can be widened?

I have always made my position clear. I believe that it is right steadily to develop the Select Committee system. We have set up the Select Committee on Expenditure, which I am sure will succeed, but it is right to give it an opportunity to develop and to see how far it succeeds. We have also set up this ad hoc Committee on Corporation Tax. Again, I should like to see how that succeeds. I think, therefore, that it is right to reserve the position on further developments until we see how those Committees, which we now have, succeed in their particular tasks.

asked the Lord President of the Council what arrangements have been made for the future management of the Refreshment Department.

I have been asked to reply.

I am glad to be able to tell the House that the Catering Sub-Committee have appointed as the new manager of the Refreshment Department Mr. Smillie, at the same rate of salary as his predecessor. Mr. Smillie has served the Refreshment Department for the last four years as personnel manager and for the last few weeks has acted as manager and he has proved himself to be highly efficient in both capacities.

Will the hon. Gentleman be just a little more forthcoming? Has any contract been entered into with Versa-Serve Ltd., a subsidiary of J. Lyons & Company Limited? Will he also explain why applicants for the post of Refreshment Department manager were interviewed at the Strand Palace Hotel? Was this consistent with the dignity of this House?

The Versa-Serve Ltd. contract has not yet been drawn up. We have been rather preoccupied in getting a manager. We are receiving great help from Versa-Serve Ltd. I hope that the help that it is giving will enable the Department to function more efficiently. As for the interviewing of candidates, Versa-Serve Ltd. advertised, in the first instance, on our behalf and sent an adequate short list of candidates to the subcommittee which did the choosing.

Will the hon. Gentleman turn his attention to the conditions and the food in the Members' cafeteria downstairs where the meat and fish and watery vegetables which we have to consume are a disgrace?

I am only too well aware of the shortcomings in the cafeteria department. Some of the recommendations which we have had and have passed for putting into operation apply to that department. I hope that the service will improve.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will request the Younger Committee to expedite the preparation of its report on privacy in view of public concern about unsolicited pornographic literature being sent through the post.

No, Sir. As stated in reply to a Question by my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford, North (Mr. Iremonger) on 29th October—[Vol. 805, c. 170]—the Committee hopes to be able to report by the end of this year.

I thank the hon. and learned Gentleman for that Answer. I understand that this report will also deal with the question of pornographic literature being sent through the post, and that is why I asked for it to be expedited. Does the hon. Gentleman agree, as I asked his right hon. and learned Friend in connection with the last Question, that urgent action requires to be taken in this matter?

The hon. Gentleman is right. The terms of reference of the Younger Committee on privacy certainly cover the question of unsolicited literature being sent through the post. It is felt, however, that it would be wrong to ask the Committee to make an interim report because it is hoped that it will be reporting by the end of the year.