asked the Secretary of State for Wales what proposals he has with regard to the provision of special assistance to local education authorities with 11 to 16 comprehensive schools in order to bring such schools up to the standards required by pupils, teachers and parents.

None. It is expected that any proposals by local education authorities to make up deficiencies at such schools or to convert them to other forms of secondary organisation, including 11–18 schools, should be carried out through the annual minor and major capital building programmes.

I thank the Secretary of State for his reply. Is he fully aware of the acute anxiety felt by teachers, parents and some pupils about the situation of these schools without sixth forms? Is he aware of the great difficulty which can arise in that if such a school gets a bad name, it could bring into disrepute the whole concept of comprehensive education in the area? May I urge my right hon. Friend to do all that he can to assist local authorities faced with this difficulty?

If my hon. Friend has any particular school in mind I should be grateful if he would let me know. Clearly, 11 to 16 comprehensive schools are established only in areas where the school population is not large enough to enable individual schools to support fully viable sixth form units.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make an official visit to Blaenau Ffestiniog.

I have no immediate plans to visit Blaenau Ffestiniog. But I will bear the hon. Member's suggestion in mind when an opportunity occurs of doing so.

Is the Secretary of State's reluctance to come to Blaenau Ffestiniog due to the fact that the Conservative candidate at the last election promised that his Government would give special assistance to that community? Is he unwilling to come to Blaenau Ffestiniog because he does not have such special assistance to give?

No, I am certainly never reluctant to come to Blaenau Ffestiniog. I am always very pleased to visit the place. I know it very well indeed. Officials of the Welsh Office and the Department of Trade and Industry went to Blaenau Ffestiniog in February, at my request, had a meeting with the full council, and gave me a report which I found very useful. The hon. Gentleman will remember that at the last Welsh Grand Committee meeting I referred specifically to Blaenau Ffestiniog. He will be happy to know that work is to commence today on the construction of the 10,000 sq. ft. factory which I mentioned on that occasion. I hope that the factory will be ready for occupation by the end of the year.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what representations he has received from the trade union movement in Wales in favour of British entry into the Common Market.

The trade union movement in Wales has made no representations to me on this matter.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that if Britain were to enter the Common Market it is the families of ordinary trade unionists who would have to bear the brunt of increased costs and that in terms of industrial development Wales will be more or less a write-off? Would he therefore speak up for Welsh interests in this matter?

I disagree with the hon. Gentleman. I am sure that the trade union movement in Wales is reserving its position, as are large sections of the community in Britain, until the terms are known.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that trade union organisations within the Common Market countries which had certain misgivings about the Common Market when it was first formed are now unanimous, including even the Communist unions, in their support of the Common Market?

I certainly agree that within the Community there is great enthusiasm among not only trade unionists but all sections of the population for the idea of European unity.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the trade union movement will always be in opposition to entry of the E.E.C., considering that the right hon. Gentleman was a party to Article 118 in railroading the Industrial Relations Bill through the House? Has he seen the trades councils' decided "No"? Would he therefore agree that united trade union opinion in Wales is against this sell-out of Britain?

No, I cannot agree. As I said, I have received no representation from the trade union movement in Wales on this matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will call a national conference of public and official bodies in Wales which are representative of a wide range of interests in order to discuss the question of the consequences to Wales of the United Kingdom's entry into the European Economic Community.

No, Sir.

Is it not a fact that, whatever the negotiated terms will be, entry into the Common Market would create in Wales problems more acute than those in most other parts of the United Kingdom? I am thinking particularly of the inevitable eastward drift of human and material resources and of assistance to farmers on marginal land. Is it that the Secretary of State does not appreciate these problems or that he is too complacent to apply his mind to them?

The hon. Gentleman was a member of the previous Administration, and he will recollect that a great deal of consideration was given to whether a detailed analysis of the effects of entry on any particular part of Britain could prove practicable. It was found that it could not. It is important that after the terms are known there should be good public debate and discussion, and undoubtedly that will take place. But I do not believe that a conference of the kind suggested by the hon. Gentleman would serve the bodies concerned better than the existing arrangements, whereby the bodies can tell Welsh Ministers and Members directly what their views are.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he will publish a paper on his Department's assessment of the impact on the Welsh economy if Great Britain should join the European Economic Community, following Welsh Office officials' discussions with European Economic Community representatives.

No, Sir. A detailed analysis for particular parts of the United Kingdom is not possible, but the Government believe that Wales will share fully with the rest of the United Kingdom in the benefits arising from membership of the Community.

Is there not a grave inconsistency in what the Secretary of State says? He says, on the one hand, that it is not possible to estimate the effect on regions such as Wales; yet, on the other hand, he predicts confidence? At this late stage, when right hon. Gentlemen opposite are gleefully accepting that they are already in the Common Market, will he ensure that some assessment is made of the impact on the Welsh economy, especially regional development in areas such as West Wales? Will he speak for Wales and its people and stop acting as Chairman of the Conservative Party?

It was agreed by the previous Administration that all parts of the United Kingdom should share in the benefit that the United Kingdom should have from entry into the European Economic Community.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what estimate he has made of the volume of industry which would be attracted to Wales, assuming that Great Britain enters the Common Market.

It is not feasible to make such estimates. Wales should, however, share fully in the increased industrial opportunities presented by membership of the European Economic Community.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware—and he has Ministerial corroboration a few yards away from him—that under Article 67 of the Treaty of Rome we should have no control over capital outflow, and that therefore investment in industry would be concentrated in the Low Countries, and Wales would suffer? Is he aware that Wales would stagnate because it would be on the periphery of the enlarged E.E.C.? Will he oppose entry into the E.E.C. and thus protect the interests of the Welsh people, from whom he springs?

The hon. Gentleman should await the terms which may be agreed in June before he reaches the conclusions that he so emphatically states.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many factory units he estimates will be established in the proposed Llantrisant New Town.

It is not possible to say, but I expect about 18,000 jobs to be provided in a new town of the size envisaged.

Would the right hon. Gentleman agree that there is a difference between wishful thinking and planning and that the vagueness of his proposals on industry is giving rise to grave doubt in the locality of Llantrisant about how many jobs will be created?

It is impossible to plan until the new town is set up. These are just proposals; following the proposals there will be consultations with the local authorities. I shall presumably make a designation order following those consultations, and then the usual statutory procedures will apply.

But the right hon. Gentleman has told us again this afternoon that he expects 18,000 new jobs to be provided at Llantrisant. On what basis does he calculate this figure and found his expectations?

I said that it was not possible to say but that I expected about 18,000 jobs to be provided in a new town of the size envisaged. The reason why I said that was that Professor Buchanan's original target of a town of 94,000 by 1981 has been reduced in my proposals to between 70,000 and 75,000. This would mean that the original estimate by Professor Buchanan of 22,000 jobs would be reduced to 18,000.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he will establish an inquiry, either on a departmental basis or in co-operation with the Welsh Council, to make a comprehensive re-examination of the transport requirements of the Principality, including the road, air and rail services, and to report on the way in which they may best be improved.

The Welsh Council will continue to pay particular attention to the public transport situation in Wales and will report its conclusions to me. In the circumstances, I do not think a further inquiry is necessary.

I am glad that the Welsh Council will consider the matter, but there will be some disappointment at my right hon. Friend's reply. Is he aware that, while we welcome the speeding up of the major road programme, there are many aspects of the Welsh transport scene which cause concern—nobably the lack of any air service between South Wales and London or within the Principality itself, the inadequacy of the rail system even over many existing routes and the shortcomings of the rural buses and that, if we go into Europe, as I hope we shall, an improved transport system will be even more important?

I certainly agree that there are many anxieties about transport in Wales, and the transport requirements in the Principality are continually being examined by the responsible Departments, which act in close liaison.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the growing fears concerning future air services at the Fair-wood airport in my constituency, having regard to its importance to the economic and industrial development of West Wales? Is he further aware that a consortium of West Wales local authorities, together with the Swansea authority, is struggling hard to keep this airport open? Would he investigate the possibilities of giving aid in accordance with the Government's civil aviation policy?

I am aware of these anxieties and of the views which have been expressed. As the hon. Gentleman knows, a meeting was arranged between those interested from his constituency and around his constituency with my right hon. Friend who is responsible.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many nursery schools, English speaking and Welsh speaking, respectively, there are in Flintshire, giving the location of each.

One, at Shotton. English is the medium of instruction.

Is the Secretary of State not aware of the rocketing population in Flintshire, particularly East Flintshire? Would he not agree that, in those circumstances, there is, on new housing estates, a real and acute need for nursery school provision? Is there any action that he might take to encourage and assist local authorities to provide more nursery schools?

Yes, I am aware of the great increase in population in Flintshire, but priority at this stage is being given to the replacement of inadequate pre-1903 primary schools. Later, I hope, we shall be able to give greater priority to the needs of nursery schools. I am, however, continuing to develop nursery education in areas of special need.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not appreciate that there are now five times the number of mothers working in Wales that there were in 1950, and that this creates a substantial social problem, to which the provision of nursery schools is part of the answer?

Yes, a lot of children under five go to primary schools; 57 per cent. of the four-year-old age group are in primary schools.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will prolong the period for receiving submissions on the Consultative Document on the Reform of Local Government in Wales.

I have received no requests for an extension of time, and I believe there is a general feeling that the 3½ months allowed for comment has been ample. However, where there has been a change of political control I am prepared to consider any request I may receive for a reasonable extension of time.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not consider that it would be wiser to await the outcome of the Crowther Report on the Constitution? Can he honestly expect a county like Powys, which is envisaged, to comment on the proposals when it does not know what will be in the Green Paper on the financing of local government? Last, would he not consider that it is difficult for some areas where a change of boundaries is envisaged to have all the neces- sary consultations, in view of the fact that it takes the Secretary of State six weeks to reply to letters as it is?

No, I do not agree that we should await the Crowther Report. In that, I accept the view of the previous Administration, as indeed it was their view about the publication of the Green Paper on finance. We have made it clear that we intend to legislate in 1971–72, and for that reason it is very important that we should get the views of local authorities as soon as possible.

Will the right hon. Gentleman help the consultative process by explaining how he assumes a community of interest to exist between the city of Swansea and small Tory villages 10 miles outside its boundaries but not between Swansea and Labour-voting areas which actually adjoin existing Swansea suburbs?

I shall be very interested to receive the view of the local authorities in and around Swansea. I assure the hon. Gentleman that I shall pay particular attention to their views. My sole concern is to have proper and effective local government reorganisation.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he now proposes to issue a White Paper setting out his proposals for the reorganisation of local government in Wales.

No, Sir.

Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman appreciate that a White Paper would give him the opportunity to withdraw his present gerrymandering proposals and place the interests of Wales, for the first time, above those of the Conservative Party?

I shall announce my final decision on local government reorganisation in the light of representations made to me by local authorities and other bodies. I shall announce my final decision in the way which seems most appropriate at the time.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if following the discussions between himself and Lord Crowther on local government reorganisation in Wales, he will now agree to postpone acting upon the proposals for reorganisation contained in his White Paper until the Crowther Commission on the Constitution makes its report.

No, Sir. This Government, like their predecessors, do not consider that the Commission should constitute a bar to action where this is urgently needed.

What was the point of the Crowther Commission meeting in public to take evidence and of the Secretary of State publishing his White Paper as a consultative document if both are to be materially affected by covert conversations between the Secretary of State and the Chairman of the Crowther Commission?

The hon. Gentleman knows full well that, as I have told the House, I did not discuss with the Chairman of the Commission what his proposals might be. I saw the Chairman of the Commission to let him know what my proposals for local government reorganisation were. I wished it also to be confirmed that there was no objection to my going ahead with those proposals.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many children aged 7 to 11 years are attending schools in Wales; and what is the amount which he expects to save by the decision to end supplies of free milk to this age group.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many schoolchildren in Wales will cease to receive free school milk following the Government's announcement on 27th October, 1970.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many letters he has received advocating amendment of the Education (Milk) Bill, so that local education authorities could expend moneys to provide free school milk for pupils under 11 years of age; and what replies he has sent.

There are about 160,000 children aged 7–11 years attend- ing maintained primary schools in Wales. It is estimated that the withdrawal of free milk from this age group will save about £400,000 in a full year. No letters have been received in my Department advocating amendments to the Government's proposals.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that this unforgivable blow against the younger school-children in Wales will cost him far more than the £400,000 to which he has referred? Will he consult medical and educational authorities in Wales about the likely consequences of a combination of the deprivation of free school milk and the higher school meal charges? Has he taken into account the possibility of damage to the children of Wales through this wanton and foolish act?

This matter has been considered very carefully. It is the Government's view that it is a saving in Government money which can be made without any adverse effect on the health of the pupils. The right hon. Gentleman will know that children who require school milk on medical grounds will continue to receive free milk.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman not ashamed and humiliated to put his hand to this flinty and heartless measure? Could he not attempt to adjust this so as to enable milk to be paid for out of the rates by the local education authority?

This is a gross exaggeration. In this day and age it is not thought that one third of a pint of milk for a child for 200 days in the year, which will be supplementary to its diet at home and meals at school, is essential to ensure that our children are adequately nourished. The position is that if a child between the ages of 7 and 12 needs milk on medical grounds, it will get it free.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware of Early Day Motion No. 554, standing in my name and the names of 162 hon. and right hon. Members, calling upon the Government to change their mind and allow local authorities to continue this service out of the rates? Has he read the studies by the Head of the Social Nutrition Research Unit, Dr. Lynch, of Queen Elizabeth College? Is he further aware that the Secretary of the Association of Education Committees, Sir William Alexander, has come out in support of this idea and that many other local authorities wish to continue with this service? Will he try to touch with some compassion the heart of the flinty female who is at present the Secretary of State for Education and Science?

This is a saving of Government expenditure. The money saved will be spent in those areas where it is considered that there is a greater need.

Sixpence off tax!

As to the point raised by the hon. Gentleman, the Bill has yet to receive a Second Reading, and there will be ample opportunity at this and subsequent stages for discussion of all aspects of the Government's proposals.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek leave to raise this matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he can now announce the starting dates for the construction of the dual carriageway from St. Clears.

I assume the hon. Member is referring to the proposed dual carriageway road between St. Clears and Carmarthen. This is in the preparation pool but it is too early yet to give a starting date.

Will the Minister not accept that, especially at this time of the year and until September, the road between St. Clears and Carmarthen, and Carmarthen itself, is subjected to traffic congestion every weekend over a length of about six miles? Would he not further accept that the construction of the motorway to Pontardulais by 1976—which is greatly welcomed by everyone on both sides of the House—will mean, unless there is provision for Carmarthen and the dual carriageway to St. Clears, that traffic will move into this area all the sooner, causing even greater queues?

I certainly accept that there are difficulties. It is not possible to forecast a starting date for schemes in the preparation pool since this depends, among other things, on the time needed to complete the statutory processes and to acquire land. Work will be carried out as soon as possible after these steps have been completed.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what new expenditure, other than that for road building, he has incurred since taking office on improving the economic infrastructure of the five North Wales counties.

I have authorised expenditure by North Wales local authorities of £2,905,000 on water, sewerage, coast protection and derelict land schemes, and approved grant aid of £341,500.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman satisfied that the beneficial results on the economy of the North Wales counties as a result of this policy are better than the results that would have accrued had the policy of the previous Administration been followed? If he is, can he say in which respects?

Many of the policies which I am now following are a continuation of the policies of the previous Administration. I warmly welcome any worth-while infrastructure improvement undertaken by Welsh local authorities. As a Government, we are considering the question of applying the provisions of the Local Employment Act more flexibly.

Is my right hon. and learned Friend aware that if he can get a favourable decision for building an integrated steel works at Shotton and an early decision on the Dee crossing he will fill our cups with happiness in North Wales—if not to overflowing, then at least to near the brim?

I can understand the interest of my hon. Friend in these two schemes but I do not think that either of them can be classed as infrastructure.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that if he can get any decision at all about the steel industry out of the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, it will be a 100 per cent. improvement?

The hon. Gentleman will no doubt await with interest the debate which is to follow Questions. I know that the House will be interested to hear him.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what proposals he has received for the redevelopment of the Neath General Hospital from the Welsh Hospital Board.

I have nothing to add to the reply I gave to the hon. Member on 1st February, 1971.—[Vol. 810, c. 228.]

Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the grave concern being expressed in Neath at the delay in implementing the plans for this hospital, which were formulated as long ago as the time of the previous Conservative Administration? Will he confirm that the delay in deciding on the question of the medical school in Swansea will not be used to hold up the redevelopment of this rather important hospital?

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the Welsh Hospital Board is at present considering its plans for the hospital services in the West Glamorgan area. As to the last point, I can assure him that the question of the establishment of the medical school at Swansea will not delay a decision on the development of Neath General Hospital.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what recent consultations he has had with the Chairman of the Welsh Hospital Board regarding the future of Llanelly General Hospital.

None. I would refer the hon. Member to the answer which I gave to him on 16th July, 1970.—[Vol. 803, c. 267, 268.]

Is the Minister of State aware that there is considerable anxiety in my constituency that the establishment of a medical school providing 1,500 beds at Swansea might well lead to the closure of Llanelly Hospital? Would he, therefore, give an assurance that if that medical school is to be in Swansea—which we would welcome—no more than 800 beds will be provided on a single site and that the remainder of the beds will be distributed between Llanelly and the other surrounding hospitals?

I accept the hon. Gentleman's anxieties over this question and the matter of numbers. I repeat what I have said to his hon. Friend just now, that the hospital service in the area of his constituency will not be hurt by a possible medical school which may, at some time, come to Swansea.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales, in view of the possible effects of the Severnside Study proposals upon the existing communities in Monmouthshire and Glamorganshire, if he will initiate immediately a study group or working party to consider those effects and to consider counter proposals for the revitalising of the valley communities.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what consideration he has given to the Severnside Study Report; and if he will make a statement.

The Government welcome this report as a contribution to the planning of Severnside but they are in no sense committed to its conclusions and recommendations. Before forming a view on these, my right hon. and learned Friend will be seeking the comments of the Welsh Council, the local planning authorities and others. I am confident that in formulating their views these bodies will have in mind the implications for existing communities in South Wales.

In view of the hon. Gentleman's assurance recently that the Severnside development would not be permitted until the problems of South Wales had been solved, will he state whether this is Government policy?

I do not retreat from anything I said in Cardiff at the Press conference which I gave. In this connection we must remember that the Severnside report was commissioned by the Labour Party when it was in government. I am glad to say that the Government are satisfied that the recommendations of this report will not be put into commission until the economic problems of South Wales have been satisfactorily dealt with.

Will the hon. Gentleman accept that hon. Members on this side of the House and people in Wales generally are comforted by his assurances, but that they nevertheless find that those assurances conflict somewhat with the policy followed by the Government in other spheres, since the Severnside study appears to be encouraging the idea of growth based on so-called natural growth points? Is he aware that we find it strange that the Government should be embracing the idea that there will be planned growth in Wales before natural growth takes place on Severnside?

If the hon. Gentleman will study the report, he will find that he is not correct in what he has said.

If my hon. Friend welcomes this public relations exercise on behalf of the Government, would he accept my word that many people in the areas concerned, certainly in the Bristol/ Bath area, find the report little more than a collection of statistics, most of which were available anyway? Is my hon. Friend aware that the almost non-existent mention of transport in the region, certainly in the Bristol/Bath area, surprises many people? Is he also aware that any report that purports to be about developing the area but does not mention the new Avon Bridge, due to open next year, is virtually meaningless?

My hon. Friend will realise that I am answering the Question from a Welsh point of view entirely. This is not a publicity exercise on behalf of the Government. If any country is faced with an increase in population of 11 million between now and the year 2000, it is right to carry out such plans.

Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the Welsh area of Severside ought to have a greater degree of priority than the suggested North Gloucestershire development of Severn-side, and that it would be much better for the Government to continue development south-west of the Severn rather than pur- sue a policy, as envisaged in the report, of developing the area of Staunton, Huntley and the North side of Gloucester.

I should not like to enter into particular arguments between one part of the country and another. The hon. Gentleman knows Gloucester and his constituency better than I do. This inquiry, which was started by the Labour Party and which has now been published by the Government, ought to be looked to by planners wherever they may be, in Wales or in that part of England, who have a job to do.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what assistance is available from Government resources to Bala Urban District Council to enable it to develop the township of Bala to double its present size.

Bala, being within the development area, benefits from assistance available under the Local Employment Acts.

Having heard the Minister's interesting thesis that it is not his task to differentiate between areas in trying to develop them and bring in new population, may I ask whether it is part of that thesis which is preventing Government assistance to towns like Bala, which the Government have designated as growth points? Is it not cynical of the Government to tell these towns that they should develop, when they cannot afford to do so because they do not have the means to build houses and factories?

The lion. Gentleman will be glad to know that arrangements have been made for my right hon. and learned Friend to meet representatives of the Mid-Wales Industrial Development Association shortly and to have full discussions on the problems of town expansion in Mid-Wales.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what plans he has to seek to meet the Welsh Panel of the Commission on the Constitution.

None, Sir.

Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman accept that it would be worth while, in view of his meaningless assurance as to his consultation with Lord Crowther, to meet this panel to assess what it thinks of his local government proposals and anything that the panel may recommend?

As far as I can remember the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question on the previous occasion, I am afraid that he is under a misapprehension about the meeting which I had with the Chairman of the Commission. My meeting with Lord Crowther was entirely in the context of my proposals for the reorganisation of local government in Wales, and its purpose was simply to inform him of my intentions and to ensure that there were no objections from his standpoint to my going ahead.

Would the right hon. and learned Gentleman indicate whether by "going ahead" he means merely publishing or actually implementing?

Lord Crowther fully accepted that it was undesirable to defer decisions on local government reform in Wales pending the report of his Commission. As the hon. Gentleman will remember, this was equally accepted and emphasised by the previous Government.

Is not the Secretary of State aware that in Wales we do things democratically? How is he sure that Lord Crowther holds exactly the same view as all the other members of his Commission?

I was not seeking the views of anyone except Lord Crowther. I was asking the Chairman of the Commission whether he saw any objection. It was the Government's intention, as it was that of the previous Administration, to go ahead with local government reorganisation without waiting for the Commission's report.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he proposes to publish a consultative document on the reorganisation of the National Health Service in Wales similar to the one released by the Department of Health and Social Services on 17th May.

My right hon. and learned Friend will publish a consultative document shortly.

Will the Minister say whether the consultative document will be on the same lines as the one just published for England? Shall we have more meaningful consultations than those to which we have been accustomed in the past?

The principles underlying the reorganisation proposals are the same in both countries, but the hon. Gentleman must await the document for details of any differences there may be between the administrative structures proposed for England and for Wales.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what industrial establishments in Wales he has visited officially during the past month; and whether he will make a statement.

None. Had, however, the right hon. Gentleman picked the coming month, the answer would have been three.

The right hon. and learned Gentleman is succumbing at last to the pressures we are putting upon him. Is he aware then when he visits Wales he will find deep depression in industrial circles? There is a complete lack of confidence in the Government's policies in view of the mounting unemployment that they are causing.

I do not think the right hon. Gentleman is quite correct in saying "mounting unemployment". He will be aware that the unemployment figures dropped last month. In the past month I have had many engagements in Wales on these very matters. I am fully aware of the situation in Wales. I had eight engagements in London and five in Wales on industrial development matters.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what effect the increase in charge for school meals has had upon the number of children taking school meals in Wales.

This information is not yet available. It has been estimated that, overall, there will be a fall of about 12 per cent. in the number of children taking meals.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that statistical evidence already shows in other areas a marked decline in the number of children taking school meals and that, in view of these statistics, there is rapidly growing concern on the part of all concerned about the possible effects upon children's health? Therefore, will he do all he can to get his Cabinet colleagues to change this niggardly policy?

I do not know that any statistical evidence at present obtainable is accurate. A survey is being undertaken the result of which will be available in June. The purpose of the survey is to ascertain how much of the fall is due to higher charges or to the normal seasonal decline at this time of year and also to show the effect of the more generous scales for the remission of charges.

What do the Government propose to do if it is true that the take-up of school meals has fallen since the imposition of higher charges? As the Secretary of State is responsible for part of education in Wales, will he dissociate himself from the remarks and the weird logic of the Secretary of State for Education and Science who in a television programme encouraged the teaching of young children in deceit by going through a charade in presenting dinner money on Monday mornings?

I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman that my right hon. Friend engaged in deceit in any way.

She encouraged the teaching of it.

My right hon. Friend's programme was greatly appreciated. After the two increases in charges which were made by the previous Administration, which together represented a 75 per cent. increase, the numbers of children taking school meals initially decreased but then rose again, by both numbers and percentage, and at the end there was an increase in the number taking school meals.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many private boarding houses in North Wales now cater for patients discharged from the North Wales Hospital for mentally disordered people; and how many are registered with the county authorities.

Eighteen, of which five have been registered.

Is the Minister of State aware that it has been the policy of local authorities in North Wales to secure the registration of these boarding houses and that this policy, which was beginning to bear fruit, as the figures show, is being jeopardised by the absurd ruling of the Department of Health and Social Security that the allowances paid to each patient are reduced by approximately £2 per week when the houses are registered? Will the hon. Gentleman look into the matter and consult his colleague with a view to preventing a very successful and promising development from being jeopardised?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what has been the percentage increase in redundancies announced in Welsh manufacturing industry from 1st January, 1971, to the latest available date compared with the similar periods in each of the two preceding years.

Redundancies in Welsh manufacturing industry notified to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment's Department amounted to about 8,100 in the period January to April, 1971. This was respectively 195 per cent. and 140 per cent. more than in the same periods in 1970 and 1969.

Is the Secretary of State aware that Welsh unemployment is at the moment 16 per cent. higher than it was a year ago and that the figures he has just given, showing a trebling in the rate of increase in redundancies in manufacturing industry, are an absolutely staggering increase and a devastating indictment of a failure of his and his Government's policies and reveal the extent to which they are undermining the very industrial diversity which Wales needs and which the Labour Government built up over six years?

I am fully aware of the level of unemployment. It is a level which concerns us all, and one which is too high. One can take some comfort from the fact that the Welsh share of Great Britain's unemployment has fallen steadily over the past year and Wales has stood up better than certain other parts of the country to recent difficulties.

Will the Secretary of State confirm that one of the industrial visits he is making next month is to the aluminium smelter at Anglesey? Was not this smelter built with the aid of investment grants? Will he explain to those he meets how that smelter would have come about without the policy of the Labour Government?

I am aware that the R.T.Z. smelter plant at Anglesey was built during the time of the late Government.

Was not the R.T.Z. smelter built only as a result of the rejection of the first proposition put up by R.T.Z., which was that it should go ahead in conjunction with the Atomic Energy Authority? Was not the plan it had to adopt during the time of the late Government very much a second best; and has not the industry been twisted by the fact that we had to have three instead of two smelters?

Is the Secretary of State aware that when he compares the increase in unemployment in Wales with the unemployment in the rest of the United Kingdom he brings comfort to no one? What we want from him are practical proposals for increasing employment in the Principality?

The right hon. Gentleman should take comfort from the fact that when there are difficulties in the United Kingdom as a whole Wales e has been able to withstand them better than she has done in previous years. As regards proposals for stimulating the economy, I suggest that he looks in detail s at the measures which have been e announced by the Government and, in particular, the Budget.