asked the Minister of State for Defence when his Department will complete its study of its central London properties with a view to their redevelopment; and whether he will make a statement.

It is hoped that the study will be completed within the next twelve months. I shall inform my hon. Friend of the results of the study when they are known.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the Department's determination to carry this study through for such a length of time is causing great hardship and concern in the City of Westminster, since it means that the Ministry of Defence site in Longmoore Street cannot be considered for a public baths and that houses in other parts of the site will have to be taken over by compulsory purchase, with all the human suffering and disagreeable consequences which that entails? Could he not make a special exception for this site, or hurry up his survey?

I fully appreciate the sense of urgency which my hon. Friend expresses in the interests of his constituents, but this is a comprehensive study. Until the general study has been completed, it will not be known whether this site is required for units which are unable to find accommodation elsewhere.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that a valuable site is being wasted at the Duke of York's in Chelsea and that I have three barracks in my constituency, at Minet Road, Flodden Road and King's Avenue which are not required for the defence of the Brixton division?

All of which emphasises the importance of a comprehensive, thorough and worth-while study being taken in this matter.

Does the hon. Gentleman recall that, on 1st December, 1969, I announced the movement of 1,500 Army posts to Cardiff, and that the building would be erected between 1971 and 1974? Are these proposals still going ahead? Is there any change in them? Would the hon. Gentleman deny any suggestion that in any way there has been a slowing down of this proposal?

I am afraid that I do not recall that statement, but the Question refers to Longmoore Street in London. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to put down a Question about Cardiff, I will certainly try to answer it.

asked the Minister of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the future of British troops in the Gulf.

There has been no change in our policy for the future of British troops in the Gulf since I answered a Question by my hon. Friend the Member for Chigwell (Mr. Biggs-Davison) on 11th March.—[ol. 813, c. 147.]

Is the rundown planned by the Labour Government continuing, but will the options to retain troops either in support of the union or bilaterally still remain open to Her Majesty's Government?

The proposal which has been put forward by the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary is to make troops available in a training and liaison capacity to a union of territories in that area, if that can be formed, and our policy is, in fact, the creation of a union. It is our duty to press ahead with this as fast as possible.

Will the Minister come clean with the House about the Government's intentions regarding withdrawal and say whether the run-down is at present taking place? Has there been a net reduction in the number of troops in the Gulf in the last six months, and is this reduction going on?

It would be wrong for me to give figures about the exact deployment of troops. However, I assure the right hon. Gentleman that we shall keep adequate military forces in the area to fulfil our commitments while we are responsible for them.

asked the Minister of State for Defence whether he will publish details of arms, ammunition and explosive equipment captured in Northern Ireland as a result of searches or otherwise; and what are the sources from which they are believed to have been obtained.

Between 1st January, 1970, and 31st May, 1971, 12 machine guns, 329 other guns, over 80,000 rounds of ammunition and over 1,000 lbs of gelignite, together with miscellaneous other items, have been found in searches by the security forces. It is not the practice to reveal the results of investigation into the sources from which they may have been supplied.

Is it not a fact that gelignite is coming freely across the border carried on the person of individuals simply because there is no effective surveillance of the border? Is this not a rather farcical situation from the security point of view, and will the Ministry of Defence please give consideration to more effective military precautions being taken on the border between the United Kingdom and the Irish Republic?

There is constant patrolling of the border and the checking of vehicles to counter the possibility of smuggling arms and explosives. I assure my hon. Friend that this matter will be kept under constant review.

Has there been any progress in tracing the murderers of the three young Scottish soldiers? Is the Under-Secretary aware of the great concern that is felt in Northern Ireland, particularly among the minority community, that the perpetrators of this filthy crime should be found as quickly as possible?

I share the hon. Gentleman's concern and if he will table a Question on the subject I will do my best to answer it.

Will priority be given to ensuring that Scotland Yard and the security forces do everything they can to track down the sources of arms coming into Northern Ireland from England and elsewhere?

I can certainly give my hon. Friend that assurance.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what new forms of working together in defence will need to be developed if the European Economic Community is enlarged by Great Britain joining.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what strategic defence considerations would arise if Great Britain were to join the European Economic Community.

The European Economic Community has no defence responsibilities. These are, and will remain, the concern of N.A.T.O. But United Kingdom membership of the Community would, we believe, give added impetus to European co-operation in defence matters.

As the words in the Question were used by the Minister on 11th March, may I ask him for an assurance that there will be no new nuclear collaboration inside or outside N.A.T.O.? Will he repudiate the proposal made by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster yesterday in Paris that there should be nuclear links between French and British forces? Is the noble Lord aware that this would inevitably mean a spread of the bomb and knowledge of nuclear methods beyond France to Germany, which would be catastrophic?

The Prime Minister made it perfectly clear, following his discussions with President Pompidou, that there had been no Anglo-French nuclear arrangements discussed as part of our negotiations for entry into E.E.C. or, indeed, in any other context. However, I believe it would be wrong to rule out the possibility of some collaboration some day—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh?"]—but this is not at the moment under discussion.

As France does not even participate in our main defensive alliance, which is N.A.T.O., may I ask my noble Friend to confirm that any question of an enlarged Community contributing to the defence of Europe is purely speculative—or is France proposing to rejoin N.A.T.O. as a gesture towards greater European unity?

I know of no such proposal. Co-operation in nuclear matters with France must inevitably depend on our establishing a greater identity of understanding in defence matters, nuclear matters in particular, than now exists between the two countries.

While strongly supporting greater defence co-operation among the European members of N.A.T.O., as initiated by my right hon. Friend when he was Foreign Secretary, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that his final speculative words have caused considerable distress, at any rate on this side of the House? May we have two unequivocal assurances—first, that the Government stand firmly behind the provisions of the Non-Proliferation Treaty; and, secondly, that no nuclear deals with France are or will be contemplated outside the framework of N.A.T.O.?

I assure the right hon. Gentleman that there is no proposal before either of the countries which is outside the framework of the Non-Proliferation Treaty. However, both France and this country possess nuclear weapons and I believe that, in the long term, it would be wrong for me to rule out the possibility of some co-operation between the two nuclear Powers of Europe.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's answer, I beg to give notice that I will raise this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of State for Defence on what terms Changi base at Singapore is to be made available to the Lockheed Aircraft Corporation.

Changi will be handed over to the Singapore Government when it is no longer required by the Royal Air Force, and any arrangement with the Lockheed Aircraft Corporation is a matter for that Government.

Has any understanding been reached between the British Government and the Government of the U.S.A. regarding the future use of this base by U.S. military aircraft? Were the Government aware of the Lockheed Aircraft Corporation's interest in it before they discussed with the Singapore Government the handing over of this base?

What happens to the air base after we hand it over is a matter for the Singapore Government.

asked the Minister of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the number of British troops now in Singapore.

Members of the three Services, including Gurkhas and locally enlisted forces, stationed in Singapore on 1st June, 1971, numbered about 16,000. This figure includes personnel serving at sea.

With a presence like this in Singapore, are we as a country not in a position to talk to Lee Kwan Yew seriously about the deep feelings among many people in this country over his internal policies towards political prisoners, with a possible view to withdrawal?

The hon. Gentleman will recognise that this falls outside the remit of my Departmental responsibilities. I will, however, call the point to the attention of the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what research programmes are currently being carried out by the Short SCI experimental vertical take-off aircraft; and if he will make a statement.

A two-year research programme has recently begun on V.T.O.L. flight control systems designed to ease the pilot's task. It is too early to report on results.

Does this comparatively small aircarft have the capability of evaluating vertical take-off procedures for large military transport aircraft of the kind which we should be thinking about developing, if only as logistic support for the Harrier?

Experience gained with the SCI has conributed to the process of widening the operational knowledge of V.T.O.L. aircraft. In the longer term, the results could contribute to the evaluation and design of civil V.S.T.O.L. aircraft.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what form of working together with France he is intending to seek in the sphere of nuclear defence forces.

I have nothing to add to my answer to the hon. Member for Putney (Mr. Hugh Jenkins) on 11th March.—[Vol. 813, c. 564–5.]

Is it the Government's view that any sharing of information about, or the production or control of, nuclear weapons, even within the context of a West European Community, would be a breach of both the spirit and letter of the Non-Proliferation Treaty?

That calls for a legal interpretation of the Non-Proliferation Treaty which I am reluctant to give off the cuff. I have explained that co-operation between the French and British Governments in nuclear matters depends on a closer understanding of defence objectives, and this does not exist now in this sphere.

In the light of that reply, does the speech on defence yesterday by my right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster represent Government policy?

Yes, Sir. My right hon. and learned Friend was explaining that entry into the European Economic Community will inevitably strengthen European unity, and a stronger European unity will lead to a greater defence strength.

Is the Minister aware that Press reports of his right hon. and learned Friend's speech have caused about as much concern as some of his statements from the Dispatch Box now? Will he place a copy of the speech of the Chancellor of the Duchy in the Library so that we may have an opportunity to study it?

I am sure that that can easily be arranged.

Have not those who have opposed closer nuclear co-operation between allies an added duty to support the strengthening of conventional defence forces?

This is almost the inevitable, logical conclusion to draw from some of the arguments advanced by hon. Members opposite.

Is not the noble Lord being a little naive in this matter? He knows perfectly well that the Prime Minister is on record as having stated his strong support for Anglo-French nuclear co-operation, and that the French have put forward, as one of the main arguments for accepting Britain, that this new co-operation should act as a substitute for the Americans in Europe. In view of the record of France as an ally, both to the Czechoslovaks and ourselves, does not the noble Lord think that that is a bit rash?

If I recollect aright, some time ago in a most thoughtful lecture my right hon. Friend was talking about very long-term collaboration within Europe on nuclear matters. He has made it clear that in his discussions with the French Government the question of Anglo-French nuclear co-operation is not an issue during the E.E.C. negotiations.

On a point of order. Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that my hon. Friends and I will seek an early opportunity of raising this matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of State for Defence when he hopes to replace the Whirlwind air/sea rescue helicopters in service with No. 18 (Maritime Group), Strike Command, Royal Air Force.

I have nothing yet to add to the answer I gave my hon. Friend on 28th January.—[Vol. 810, c. 177.]

As my hon. Friend says that he has nothing yet to add, may I infer that hopeful news is coming? The "Sea King" is an aircraft of immense potential for anti-submarine work. If we had a sale for air/sea rescue, that would have a valuable effect on its overseas sales potential. This is an outstanding aeroplane and the Royal Air Force needs it for long-range air/sea rescue.

My hon. Friend should read nothing into my reply except what I said.

asked the Minister of State for Defence whether he will review the method of payment to the Ulster Defence Regiment so that members receive greater recognition for long spells on duty within any 24-hour period.

No, Sir. Members of the Ulster Defence Regiment receive a full day's pay at Regular Army rates for any period of duty from eight to 24 hours.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what action officers commanding Her Majesty's ships on the Beira Patrol are instructed by him to take in the event of their instructions being ignored by merchant ships under foreign flags; and in what circumstances these officers have authority to open fire.

As my right hon. Friend will understand, it is not the practice to give details of the instructions issued to officers commanding Her Majesty's ships.

In the light of my hon. Friend's statement three weeks ago that we were required by the United Nations resolution to maintain this patrol, can he at least tell the House whether his interpretation of that requirement also involves the use of force if the blockade is run?

I made it quite plain to my right hon. Friend on that occasion that interpretation rests with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, and my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary has already stated to the House that Her Majesty's Government consider that they are pledged to conform to the resolution.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the only firing which has taken place against merchant shipping in recent times has been the piratical attack on the tanker "Coral Sea" last week? Will he state the Government's unqualified condemnation of that attack and others like it?

That is another question.

asked the Minister of State for Defence whether he would explain the inaccurate 30-day weather forecast for June and consider the desirability of discontinuing such forecasts in the future.

Thirty-day forecasts are based on the study of past weather patterns, and they make no claim to infallibility. There is no fixed pattern of weather repetition, which is why these forecasts are sometimes wrong, but re- search is continuing. Over the past five years about 80 per cent. of the forecasts have shown moderate or good agreement with subsequent weather and I do not propose to discontinue their issue.

Is the Minister aware that that answer will be received with great hilarity throughout the country? We knew that the present Government were capable of inducing acute economic depression, but we did not expect that that would be accompanied by acute climatic depression. Will the Minister not reconsider his answer? Does not he realise that these erroneous 30-day forecasts cause a great deal of inconvenience and bring the Meteorological Office into disrepute? Would it not be better, therefore, if the money spent on 30-day forecasts were used to achieve more accurate short-term forecasts?

As I said, all that the 30-day forecasts are is a general idea of what the weather is likely to be. They are certainly not infallible, and anyone who made his plans by them would be a rather rash person.

Would my hon. Friend agree that we should give credit where credit is due and that the most recent 30-day forecast, which forecasts periods of dry weather interspersed with showers, some heavy, is almost bound to be right?

The particular difficulty this month is finding out exactly where credit is due.

Would the Minister say whether his right hon. Friends the Leader of the House and the Patronage Secretary have sought a 30-day forecast from the Meteorological Office whether we are to have a long hot summer?

asked the Minister of State for Defence how many junior ratings in the Royal Marines opted out of the service in the first six months service, over a convenient period of time; and if he will make a statement.

In the 12 months from 1st July, 1969 to 30th June, 1970 3,313 juniors were recruited into the Royal Navy. Of these, 865—that is, 26·1 per cent.—opted out during their first six months service.

How many young men took up the option of leaving the Service after 12 weeks training? Will my hon. Friend consider making this voluntary break period at the end of training rather than in the middle?

About half in both cases left at the end of the first break point. Obviously this is not a satisfactory situation. We are looking at various ways in which we could alleviate this. It will be impossible to assess the position finally until we know the results of the Donaldson recommendations as they work their way through into recruiting. There are other things which we might be able to do.

asked the Minister of State for Defence if he will make a statement about the number of troops now in Brunei, under the command of his Department.

A battalion of the Gurkha Rifles, with a small garrison staff, established at a total of about 1,000 officers and men will remain stationed in Brunei during 1971–72.

What instructions are given to the Gurkhas in the event of internal troubles?

The details of the amendments to the 1959 Agreement must await a statement by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs. That statement will come later this year.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what steps he is taking to ensure that the new jet trainer for the Royal Air Force will have overseas sales potential.

In making their proposals to meet this requirement, the British Aircraft Corporation and Hawker Siddeley Aviation were asked to take account of export prospects.

Is my hon. Friend aware that that is welcome news, because too often in the past aircraft manufacturers have had slavishly to follow the operational requirement of the Royal Air Force and valuable overseas sales potential is lost? In this case there could well be a very susbtantial market indeed. Therefore, will my hon. Friend ensure that this aeroplane has both an effective weapons capability and a range of alternate engine fits which will make it an attractive proposition for overseas buyers?

The importance of exports is recognised. Export potential is only one of many factors which must be considered in reaching a decision on equipment for the Royal Air Force.

On the question of overseas arms sales, when Mr. Botha, the Defence Secretary of South Africa, visited the Secretary of State for Defence recently, did he show any interest in jet trainers? In which other arms did he show interest?

That is a totally different question.

asked the Minister of State for Defence whether he will make an official visit to Her Majesty's forces in the Gulf, and in the Mozambique Channel.

I have no plans to do so at present.

Would not such a visit provide for my hon. Friend an interesting contrast between British troops doing a very good job and British troops who are unfortunately detained on a futile farce? Will my hon. Friend assure me that the withdrawal of British forces from the Gulf will not depend upon a timetable but will depend upon the maintenance of peace, security and British interests in the Gulf?

I can assure my hon. Friend that the maintenance of services in that area will be maintained at a level commensurate with our commitments. We are engaged upon the long-term objective of ensuring peace and stability in the area. It is that question which is being discussed at this very moment.

Can the noble Lord do something to dissuade the hon. Member for Chigwell (Mr. Biggs-Davison) and hon. Members opposite who feel like him from continually undermining the morale of the Royal Navy on an operation which it performs with great efficiency and effectiveness?

That question coming from an hon. Member opposite about maintaining the morale of the Navy almost beggars description. I do not think my hon. Friend the Member for Chigwell (Mr. Biggs-Davison) has lowered the morale of the Navy one iota. My hon. Friend has pointed to the fact that it is undertaking a responsibility which it has been called on to perform by the United Nations. It will continue to do so until such time as an acceptable negotiated conclusion has been reached to this problem.

Can my noble Friend confirm that the Beira Patrol was designed in order to stop oil and petrol from reaching Rhodesia? What is the supply position of petrol in Rhodesia at present? Is my noble Friend aware that petrol is cheaper there than it is in Britain?

I am aware of that fact and that petrol rationing has been abolished in Rhodesia. This is surely a very small issue compared with the far greater and more important issue of achieving a negotiated settlement between Rhodesia and Britain. All must be subordinated to that wider objective.

asked the Minister of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the scheme whereby young men waiting to go up to university are commissioned into the Army in the interim period to gain experience of service in the armed forces.

In February this year 24 young men were commissioned as second lieutenants for service in the Army for a few months before they go up to their universities. They are employed in various regiments and corps in this country and Germany on worthwhile tasks involving leadership and responsibility. They have settled down extremely well. We are considering expanding the scheme next year.

Are there any indications that any of these young men will make the Army their career?

Some are considering applying for university cadetships. which would benefit the Army.

asked the Minister of State for Defence whether he will take steps to set up more University Royal Naval Units similar to the unit now existing at Aberdeen University.

Yes, Sir. We plan to establish a unit at the University of Liverpool shortly, and negotiations are proceeding with the Universities of Glasgow and Southampton to set up units there by next January.

Will my hon. Friend accept from me that that is a very satisfactory answer? What success has there been at Aberdeen University? Will the extension oft his scheme make an improvement in the recruitment of officers to the Royal Navy?

We very much hope that it will. So far at Aberdeen we have two undergraduates holding university cadet-ships; there is an application being considered from a further cadet and one application for graduate entry has been received this year. This is not a bad result in view of the size of the unit.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will now announce the result of the investigation by his Department of the new facts and allegations in the case of James Hanratty; and whether he will now set up a public inquiry.

My right hon. Friend is not yet ready to announce his conclusions.

I thank the Under-Secretary for that reply. Early Day Motion No. 537 or the two sympathetic Amendments thereto have been signed by 65 hon. Members. There will be widespread disappointment on both sides of the House if there is not an early announcement of a full inquiry into the Hanratty case.

I assure the hon. Gentleman that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will make an announcement as soon as possible. There are substantial matters to be considered and my right hon. Friend must have a little more time before he can reach his decision.

On behalf of my constituent Mr. Hanratty may I ask my hon. and learned Friend when the Secretary of State is likely to announce that there will be an inquiry and whether it will be before the Summer Recess?

I do not think that I can go further than my answer that my right hon. Friend is not yet ready to announce his conclusions. I hope that he will be able to do so before the Summer Recess, but it would be wrong to anticipate the result of those conclusions until they are reached.

Does the hon. and learned Gentleman appreciate that there are a good number of hon. Members on both sides who are very concerned about the delay that has occurred? I appreciate the need for the Secretary of State to make the most thorough investigations. Will the hon. and learned Gentleman convey to the Secretary of State that hon. Members would like him to speed up the investigations?

I cannot accept that there has been delay. The book was published only recently. It is over 400 pages long and raises many individual issues. A mass of other papers has accumulated over the years. I will convey to my right hon. Friend the feeling of the House that his decision should be given as soon as possible.

Will the hon. and learned Gentleman accept that if Early Day Motion No. 537 had not, unfortunately, been worded in such a way as to require hon. Members to state a firm opinion, it would have attracted many more than 65 signatures and that there is genuine disquiet among many more hon. Members than those who have signed that Motion?

That must be a matter of individual opinion. I accept that there is concern in the House that the Home Secretary should reach a conclusion as soon as possible and announce it to the House. The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that my right hon. Friend will look at this matter with the same care as it has received in the past from previous Secretaries of State.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment how many mineworkers are unemployed in the South Yorkshire coalfield; and, of these, how many are 55 years of age and over.

At 10th May, 2,873 males who had last worked in the coalmining industry were registered as unemployed in the Yorkshire coalfield sub-region. A special quarterly return in March showed that of 1,634 colliery workers, unemployed in March, 1,593 were aged 55 years and over.

Will the Under-Secretary examine this problem? Just over three years ago men were encouraged to leave the pits at age 55 when pits were closing and they received three years' benefit under the Labour Government's Act. Now those men are 58. In addition, there are men who were encouraged to retire from pits in close proximity which were kept open. Those men have been left out on a limb. Will the hon. Gentleman consult the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry to see whether more jobs can be brought to these areas to provide these men with work?

There has been consultation. We are well aware of this very difficult problem. Although overall the number of unemployed miners in this area has risen by only 47 in the past year, there is a difficult problem for the elderly miner. We shall do all we can to try to provide other work, but this is an area of comparatively high unemployment.

Is the Under-Secretary aware that this problem does not affect only one area and that the situation is very serious in South Yorkshire, North Derbyshire and Mid-Derbyshire? North Derbyshire is not recognised as an intermediate area. Will he consult his right hon. Friend with a view to assisting the local authorities in that area to gain intermediate area status?

That is another question. We are aware that there are difficulties for the older miner. This is why we do all we can to try to help over retraining and to place them in jobs outside mining.

Will the Under-Secretary bear in mind, and advise his right hon. Friend and Ministers in other Departments, that it is essential in advertising jobs to stop limiting jobs to men under 55? Discrimination against those who accepted redundancy payments should be terminated forthwith.

We always try to encourage all employers not to discriminate on grounds of age and urge that people should be judged on their merits and not on their age.

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science when it is proposed to review the provisions of Circular 8/60 and promulgate new directions providing more effectively for the needs of nursery classes.

My right hon. Friend's first priority is the improvement of primary schools for children of compulsory school age. Later she hopes to be able to turn to the needs of nursery education.

I warmly endorse the first priority that my hon. Friend enunciated. Will he please see to it that it is not much later before he comes to the second but also very important priority?

I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will want to respond as far as resources allow. I am aware of the special action which has been taken in the Hertfordshire local authority area, part of which is represented by my right hon. and learned Friend.

asked the Prime Minister what plans he has to discuss with other Heads of Government the proposed scheme for insuring British overseas investment described in the White Paper, British Investment in Developing Countries.

I believe that this scheme will be generally welcomed in the developing countries, and I expect to discuss it with other Heads of Government as and when suitable opportunities arise.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that direct investment is often as useful as foreign aid in helping developing countries? What benefits does he expect to flow from the scheme?

I agree that investment is as important as aid. I have always regarded it as part of aid and just as important as other forms of aid, such as technological aid. The benefit of the scheme is that it will encourage the private firms and the private investor to invest in the developing countries, which in turn is helpful to us as a country, because it is an indirect way of improving the balance of payments and securing orders for firms in this country to carry out investment in the developing world.

Is the Prime Minister aware that while it might be desirable to increase certain kinds of private investment in developing countries, it is no substitute for reaching the official aid targets approved by the United Nations General Assembly last autumn?

The right hon. Gentleman and I have had correspondence about this matter. We must agree to differ, because he believes that we should accept the figure of 0·7 per cent. of G.N.P. as official aid and we have always taken the view that we would do our best to reach 1 per cent. by 1975, taking official and private aid together. I see no reason why we should say that that figure must come from official aid. What is important for the developing world, surely, is that it should get the total aid which it requires.

asked the Prime Minister what recent discussions he has had with the Heads of Government of countries whose Governments have made application to join the European Economic Community.

I have had no such discussions recently, but my right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster maintains regular contacts with Ministers in the Governments of Denmark, Norway and the Irish Republic.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in Eire the decision on whether to enter the Common Market is subject to a mandatory referendum; that in Denmark it was subject to a five-sixths majority, and is now, I believe, subject to a mandatory referendum; and that in Norway it is subject to a three-quarters majority in Parliament and now to an advisory referendum? Would it not be a compliment to the British people, who were not faced with the issue as a major issue at the last General Election, to hold an advisory referendum to see what their wishes are in the matter?

I am aware of the position in the other three applicant countries which my hon. Friend described. But they have their own constitutional practices, and I think that I am right in saying that all three have written constitutions. As far as I am aware, this country has never used the referendum to decide major issues. We have our own parliamentary procedures, and as the head of the Government I propose to adhere to them.

Does the Prime Minister agree that those countries which are applicants to joint the E.E.C. have certain problems in common, such as regional development, transport, hill farming, fishing and so on, and that it would be valuable to have preliminary conversations with the other countries about the policies we should pursue if we were to join the Market?

There have been continual conversations and discussions with those countries about the problems involved in the negotiations. I am not sure that we have as many in common as the right hon. Gentleman suggested. The problem of agriculture in Denmark is quite different from that in Norway and Britain. Certainly, we have tried to keep in the closest touch with them on every aspect of the negotiations.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is odd that those people who do not like our taking over the practices at present followed in Europe on any other matter are very concerned to bring into this country the alien idea of a referendum?

That thought had occurred to me, like the similar thought that those who say that they know least about the European Economic Community and the negotiations are the first to demand that they should express their personal views through a referendum.

Does the Prime Minister's reply mean that he thinks that the last occasion on which the British people should have had a right to express themselves on the matter was the last General Election? If he is comparing practices in this country, will he compare the situation with the Parliament Bill in 1910, and the Reform Bill itself, when reference was made to the people of this country about such a major decision affecting their future?

It is true that on previous occasions there have been General Elections upon specific issues. I was dealing with the question of a referendum. The hon. Gentleman's point is different. At the last General Election we sought a mandate to negotiate, and we said that we believed it right that if the proper arrangements could be made, Britain should become a member of the E.E.C. If one enters into a negotiation as part of a policy stated at a General Election, one cannot commit oneself to the outcome before the negotiation is finished. That must be self-evident. Therefore, the hon. Gentleman wishes to argue that on every occasion when there is a negotiation by the Government there must be a General Election as soon as the negotiation is finished. That I cannot accept.

On a point of order. Owing to the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Prime Minister what consultations he has now had with the Commonwealth Prime Ministers regarding the position of Commonwealth workers in this country and their eligibility for acceptance as community workers within the European Economic Community.

We have consulted closely with Commonwealth Governments throughout the negotiations, but this issue is not one which they have raised with us.

Is the Prime Minister aware that some of us are exceedingly concerned about the lack of information that is coming to this House about the position of Commonwealth workers in this country and that some of us have been trying to get an answer to this question for many months? When he is negotiating on this issue would he look into the situation in France whereby immigrant children in this country cannot join their colleagues on day trips to France because the arrangements which France makes for people in this country, born in Britain, to go to France, are not applied to children who were not born in Britain, so that at the moment Commonwealth children find it difficult to be accepted?

On that point which the hon. Lady has brought to my notice, I am prepared to have inquiries made into this problem, which exists quite separately from any question of negotiations with the European Community. On the other matter, I am only too anxious that the fullest information should be given to the House as soon as discussions on this point, which will clarify the situation, are completed. Then we shall be able to give the information.

Is the Prime Minister aware that this issue of Commonwealth and British citizens and the movement of labour was raised in the House last night? Can he tell us what discussions about nationality are taking place with the Common Market countries? Is he aware that many people want more information about this issue of free movement of labour and want to know how it will affect coloured citizens in this country?

I think that people wish to know not only how it affects immigrants who have come to this country—there is a difference between those who have British nationality as a result of having been here and those who have not yet qualified—but also about this as a general question. As soon as my right hon. and learned Friend is able to give the information, the House will have it.

On the question raised by the hon. Lady about a differentiation between children from British schools who go on trips abroad, is my right hon. Friend aware that this problem has been raised in the House before and that presumably inquiries were set in train before today? Will he put some steam behind the inquiries which he now says he will have made, because this is not a nice thing to happen to children in the same British school?

I must make it clear that I understand that inquiries have been made into this but that decisions have not yet been reached.

Is there not, inevitably, bound to be a citizenship problem in any discussions about entering the Common Market? In this respect, and in a wider respect, would it not be a good idea to have discussions with the Commonwealth Prime Ministers about citizenship as a whole in preparation for the end of the British Nationality Act, 1948, which is now well out of date?

From his past Ministerial experience the hon. Member will know exactly how difficult a problem this is. It has been the general wish of the members of the Commonwealth that it should not be discussed at a Commonwealth Conference as such. That, I think, was the experience of my predecessor, and it was certainly my own experience. What they would prefer is that if we have any proposals to make, we should carry on unilateral discussions with each of the members insofar as they are affected. Because of the complexity of this subject it has not yet been possible to do that.

Are the Government to take the position with the E.E.C. that Commonwealth citizens who are nonpatrial will be free to leave this country and to work or live in Europe with their families? Is not that the essential point?

I quite agree with the right hon. Gentleman. This is one of the important points being discussed at the moment by my right hon. and learned Friend.

asked the Prime Minister if he will make a further statement on the progress of the inquiry into security within Government Departments.

Since the answer to this Question is somewhat lengthy I will, with permission, answer it at the end of Questions.

asked the Prime Minister what subjects he will be discussing with the Italian Prime Minister on his forthcoming visit.

Our discussions will of course be confidential, but I look forward to a wide-ranging review of world affairs, including the enlargement of the European Communities.

Will my right hon. Friend also be confirming the Anglo-Italian Declaration of April, 1969, whereby both our countries called for a democratically-elected Parliament for the enlarged Community? At the same time, will he express the sorrow of this country at the re-emergence, apparently, of the Fascist Party in Italy?

We have already confirmed the Declaration, which was arranged by our predecessors. It said that the Community should be based firmly on democratic institutions and that the European Parliament has a vital rôle to play. That was confirmed by my right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. My hon. Friend referred to the internal Italian political situation. Since the war we have seen from time to time in various European countries the emergence of parties with which we would not be in sympathy. We have also seen that those parties have withered away again. I ask my right hon. Friend not to put too much emphasis on the result of one lot of local government elections.

Whatever is on the agenda, will the Prime Minister see that some time is spent in discussing the development and democratisation of the European Parliament, based on the discussions of two years ago?

I am perfectly ready to do that if the Italian Prime Minister is prepared to do so. I think that the Italian Government have always taken the lead in the Community in putting emphasis on this point, particularly on direct election to the European Parliament, so it would not surprise me if the Italian Prime Minister wished to discuss the question of the European Parliament.

asked the Prime Minister what plans he now has for a further official meeting with the President of France.

None at present, Sir.

It is true that the Prime Minister's concern over veto on entry to the Common Market has now switched from the President of France to the very senior Conservative who wrote that interesting article in the Spectator on 12th June? Will the Prime Minister take this opportunity to hazard a public guess at the identity of the author?

It may be amusing to the hon. Gentleman, but that question is pretty far removed from a further meeting with President Pompidou.

In the Prime Minister's discussions with President Pompidou, New Zealand was discussed in part at least, according to the Prime Minister's first report. Has the right hon. Gentleman seen the report in today's Guardian that Sir Con O'Neill officially put forward a proposal in Brussels on behalf of the British delegation yesterday afternoon requiring only that figures should be given for New Zealand imports into this country for a transitional period and that there should be a reconsideration at the end of that period, but with no requirement that there should be, as we understood and were led to believe, a permanent arrangement to allow New Zealand to continue imports of food into this country after the United Kingdom enters the Community? Will the Prime Minister deny that statement or tell the House whether Sir Con O'Neill has been correctly reported?

I cannot be expected to comment on all the reports about the progress of the negotiations which appear in the Press in this country, Europe, or America. As the matter is under negotiation and will be handled by my right hon. and learned Friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster in Luxembourg next week, the hon. Gentleman should await my right hon. and learned Friend's report on the question.

Will my right hon. Friend make it clear to the French President that, in view of the cordial welcome which my right hon. Friend received when he went to Paris, an equally friendly welcome would be extended to the French President if he came to this country? Will he also make it clear to him that we should welcome the opportunity to hear how he will disport himself in the English language, following my right hon. Friend's excellent performance in French?

I am sure that if he were to come to this country the President of France would receive its customary warm welcome. The President expressed to me his regret that he did not consider that he was a fluent speaker of English.

asked the Prime Minister if he found an identity of view on arms sales to South Africa in his recent talks with President Pompidou.

I have nothing to add to my statement of 24th May about my talks with President Pompidou.

When the Prime Minister told the House that he found an identity of interest with the French President on all matters relating to problems facing us in different parts of the world, was he aware that France was still in breach of the United Nations resolution of 25th July last year forbidding the sale of armaments under licence to South Africa, that French armoured cars are still being manufactured under licence in South Africa, and that the French restriction on armaments sales does not extend to land-based armaments? May we have an assurance that there will be no change of British policy to bring us into line with French policy in this respect?

What I said in my statement was that the President and I found an identity of view on the rôle which a united Europe can play in relation to the problems which face us in other parts of the world. I emphasised in particular that this was with the developing world. I did not say that on every issue of foreign policy which confronted our two countries we were of exactly the same view. The differences between ourselves and France on this question are well known. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will point out to some African members of the Commonwealth, who are so critical of us but who can at the same time improve their trade and arrangements with France, exactly what the position is.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that only the most obscurantist opponent of any British foreign policy could fail to welcome the advance that took place in his conversations with President Pompidou, which not only removed obstacles to possible entry by Britain into the European Economic Community but also greatly improved relations with France?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for what he said and I believe that, on reflection, the whole House would agree that it is good for Europe—for both of our countries—that the relations between France and Britain should now be improved and put on to a better basis.

Reverting to the question of arms sales to South Africa, can the right hon. Gentleman say what further request the Government have received from Mr. Botha, the South African Defence Secretary, when he met his right hon. Friend the Defence Secretary the other day? What response have the Government made?

The position over arms sales to South Africa remains exactly as my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary described it in February.