asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how many listed buildings, ancient monuments and trees, protected by preservation order or planning condition, have been removed without official approval or permission during the last six months.

No ancient monuments protected by the Ancient Monuments Acts have been removed without official approval. The figures relating to ancient monuments protected by planning conditions, listed buildings and trees are not available in my Department.

I appreciate the difficulty of obtaining the figures, but would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that there have been many reports in recent months of features of importance and consequence being demolished or removed? Would he not also agree that there seems to be a growing attitude on the part of some developers that if there is a feature of some importance the best course is to demolish it first and apologise later? Will he look at the matter more seriously?

We have a good system of emergency listing under which, in one quarter, 700 buildings threatened with disruption were speedily listed. There is a good procedure here, but if I find loopholes that need to be filled I shall take the appropriate action.

Would not my right hon. Friend agree that it would be much better if, instead of this emergency listing, we moved the need for planning permission back so that it had to be requested before demolition? If that were done, it would not be necessary to have people rushing round doing emergency listing.

This is a matter of considerable complication. Such a measure would result in massive additional work, which would serve no real purpose.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he has now completed his consultations with the local authority associations regarding housing subsidy charges; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he can now give a precise indication of when he expects to conclude his consultations with local authorities, concerning his proposals to refashion housing subsidies.

I will report to the House as soon as possible.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that when the consultations are finally over the implementation of the Act will be against the background of massive Labour majorities in most towns and cities? Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that in such a situation some of these authorities—I hope many of them—will use every means at their disposal to avoid implementing a policy which means doubling and trebling rents by his Tory Government? In that kind of situation, can we expect the right hon. Gentleman to restrict the freedom of local action?

I am sure that I can count on the co-operation of all local authorities, of whatever political colour, to implement a reform of housing finance which the Labour Party, had it been reelected, would have undertaken.

Does my right hon. Friend find it likely that Labour councils would object to a fair rent scheme?

No, Sir. I find it difficult to think that they would object to a fair rent scheme, since the fair rent concept was introduced by a distinguished Member on the benches opposite. Nor do I think they would resent a scheme which would give added resources for slum clearance.

I think we should clear this up. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in no circumstances would a Labour Government, if re-elected, have adopted the principle of fair rents in the public sector since, as the Prices and Incomes Board and many other bodies have made clear, there is no logical analogy between the private rented sector and the public rented sector? Will the right hon. Gentleman take my hon. Friend's question about' the date of announcement more seriously because, if as is rumoured, he proposes to force local authorities to raise rents under the new scheme in April next year, it is becoming a matter of the greatest urgency that they should know where they stand?

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman about the importance of an early statement. I am interested to hear that had his party been returned to office it would not have proceeded to adopt fair rents. It opens up interesting speculation about what it would have done.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what is the up-to-date valuation of the freehold properties of Thomas Cook and Sons; and whether he can now state when the proposed Bill for their disposal will be introduced.

I have written to the hon. Member about property valuation. On timing, I have nothing to add to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hallam (Mr. J. H. Osborn) on 16th June.—[Vol. 819, c. 439.]

Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise that the Transport Holding Company, which he said is handling the sale, is to issue a statement to prospective buyers? Will he give an assurance that the statement will be available to Members of this House and that this business will not be sold to any organisation which contributed to Tory Party funds at the General Election?

Of course I will gladly give the undertaking asked for in the first part of the question about making any statement on this subject available to Members of Parliament. As for the last part of the question, all I can say is that the hon. Gentleman has managed to contribute his own unique blend of suspicion and self-righteousness, which is wholly unjustified.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what action he has taken to urge local authorities to combine physical planning and development of the environment with other services such as nursery schools, day nurseries and community centres.

Current opportunities such as those presented by reorganisation, the preparation of structure plans and the initiatives taken to explore new forms of management are all tending to encourage local authorities to adopt the approach my hon. Friend favours. I intend to foster such developments.

Has my right hon. Friend seen the Shelter Neighbourhood project in Liverpool? Does he not agree that there is much to be said for bringing the community spirit to inner urban areas and satellite cities?

I have visited the Shelter scheme in Liverpool on several occasions. I think it has a great deal to offer, and I have encouraged other local authorities to go and examine the progress being made there.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he intends to use the interim protection measure for green belt land in areas other than those already announced for Hertfordshire, Kent and Surrey.

It is my general policy to safeguard all green bell proposals pending final decisions in the context of regional strategies.

While I welcome my hon. Friend's interim protection device—and this has been widely welcomed outside the House—may I ask him whether he recognises that there is a particular problem in respect of those threshold areas of green belt land which give on to existing developed land? I am thinking also of the metropolitan area green belt land, particularly in Middlesex and my constituency. Does he recognise the need for a special directive to local authorities making clear that this green belt land should be sacrosanct, too? Secondly, may I ask when we can expect the final definitive decisions on the overall green belt proposals?

The last part of my hon. Friend's question is well related to the first. The metropolitan area green belt proposals will be protected under these interim provisions, but the question of whether and when we shall receive final decisions is related to the preparation of the regional strategies and within them the preparation of structure plans under the 1968 Act. I am encouraging local planning authorities to prepare structure plans as soon as possible for confirmation by the Secretary of State. Green belt will be shown in those plans, for approval and confirmation by my right hon. Friend. I do not preclude the approval and confirmation of further areas of proposed green belt in advance of structure plans where this is clearly justified.

While fully supporting the general intentions with regard to green belt policy, may I ask the hon. Gentleman to take care not to encourage any ideas of preventing Inner London boroughs which have grave housing needs from purchasing or having made available to them non-green belt land in such areas as Harrow to assist with London's housing problem?

We have to balance the housing requirements with the green belt policy. I do not think there is great difficulty in that. The local planning authorities are bringing forward land for housing development which is not affected by green belt policies.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what procedures exist for consultation between planning and river authorities, regarding the existence and likely growth of effluent discharge into river courses, having regard to the increasing demand for water arising during the remainder of this century from the implementation of existing development plans.

There are well established arrangements for consultations on development plans and development control, but I have come to the conclusion that there are not sufficient, and that a more formal basis for consultation is, however, needed for development likely to cause pollution; and I am discussing the form that this should take with the associations of local authorities and river authorities.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that reply. Are we to have a White Paper on the whole question of water resources generally and, if so, when is it likely to appear?

There will almost certainly be a White Paper on water resources, but I cannot give a definite date for its appearance.

I believe that the right hon. Gentleman is visiting Liverpool in the immediate future, when he will discuss this problem. Will he be sure to read a recent report which seems to suggest that such is the volume of effluent flowing into the river, and such is the projected inflow, that not only will the river become hazardous but health in the vicinity will be endangered?

I am very much in favour of adopting controls and methods that will from year to year from now on ensure that our rivers are cleaned up.

Is it not absolutely monstrous that my right hon. Friend has forced the Trent River Authority to lower its standards of acceptable effluent because of the premature closing of the Yardley, Birmingham, sewerage works? Will he take immediate action to rectify this?

That is an interesting point, but I know that generally the pollution of the River Trent is improving substantially.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not feel that the action he needs to take is on the lines recommended in the Jeger Report on sewage disposal, which really gives us the answer to the future?

I certainly look upon that as an important report. We shall soon be publishing our comments on the Jeger Report.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how many acres of land has been released for building purposes by county planning authorities in the counties of Hampshire, Dorset, Cornwall and Wiltshire since the issue of the Ministry's circular on this subject; and how much was released by the same counties in a comparable period in the previous year.

Statistics in the form requested are not available. I suggest that my hon. Friend asks the local authorities concerned.

Does my hon. Friend accept that the price of land, and, therefore, the price of housing units, depends very largely on the rate at which and is released? Is he satisfied with the progress being made?

Yes. I have not been able to assess the effect of Circular 10/70, in which we asked local planning authorities to release as much land as possible, but I am confident that by our policy we are achieving more harmonious cooperation than the Opposition did in attempting to use the Land Commission.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will now reconsider amending the Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations, 1970, made under Section 25 of the Road Traffic Act, 1962, to allow discretion to be exercised by traffic area authorities administering the driving test appointment procedure, particularly where appointments had to be cancelled for reasons outside the control of the applicant.

No, Sir. My right hon. Friend has no power to do so.

Will my hon. Friend consider either taking powers or at least giving some general directions to the authorities to deal with cases where applicants for a driving licence, through unfortunate circumstances such as sickness, duly certified, are faced with a penalty through having to pay for but not receive the test?

We take into account exceptional circumstances where applicants are not able to attend. Obviously, the cost of the administration of the scheme has to be borne by all the people and if too many exceptions were made the only result would be higher costs for the great majority.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will amend the Use Classes Order so that planning permission would be required for a change of use from a shop to a restaurant or cafe.

I am considering this suggestion as part of a review of the Town and Country Planning Use Classes Order, 1963, but I am not yet in a position to announce any final decision.

Is my hon. Friend aware that discussion of this matter has been going on for years, since I first raised it with the previous Government? Does he not think it is time that discussion ended and decisions were taken?

It may have been going on for years with the previous Government. I initiated discussions with the local authority associations on this. I have received their replies, which are now being carefully considered.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that a great deal of distress is sometimes caused when a shop changes hands and becomes a restaurant or a café and a juke box is installed which plays loud music from early in the morning until late at night? Will he in the necessary legislation see whether it can be backdated so that changes which have taken place over the last few years have to be renewed every 12 months or so?

It would be difficult to backdate it but I am conscious of the hardship caused when there is a change from an ordinary shop to a restaurant. I have under consideration other types of trade in shops which come under the same category, such as launderettes and fried food shops.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he has decided to hold public inquiries on the various sectors of the A41 bypass, Kings Langley to Tring.

No, Sir. This is a matter for consideration after the objection period has ended in August.

Is my hon. Friend aware that there is considerable local concern about some sections of this route where both private and public amenities are seriously threatened? Would he make it clear that his mind is not closed about the final line of the route but that he will consider alternative suggestions and is prepared to consider tunnelling in places where the route seriously threatens public amenities?

My hon. Friend will know that those matters could be ventilated at the public inquiry should it be necessary. The objection period closes in about six weeks' time.

For this bypass, and, indeed, all bypasses, including motorways, will the hon. Gentleman consider the system adopted in Germany on autobahnen where lorries are prohibited from travelling in the outside lane, resulting in increased safety? Would he consider this suggestion particularly for the killer stretches of the Ml?

That is a different question from the Question under discussion, which concerns a bypass.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what discussions he has had with lorry makers about reducing exhaust smoke emissions from diesel-powered vehicles; and if he will make a statement.

Last December I published a draft regulation which would require new diesel-engined vehicles to comply with the strict smoke limit included in the British Standard for diesel engines. I hope to announce shortly the terms of the final regulation.

Can my right hon. Friend say how he intends to enforce the law when these vehicles get on the road and whether he has had any discussion with the vehicle industry about whether it would be possible to have a smoke meter installed in the cab to warn the driver that his vehicle was breaking the law?

I will take into account the helpful suggestion made in the latter part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question. He has raised the difficulty of enforcement, which, alas, is an abiding problem to which I cannot give an easy answer, but it continues to receive very thorough attention.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what is the number of houses started in 1971 to the latest date for which figures are available; and what increase this represents in percentage terms over the figure for the corresponding period of 1970.

In Great Britain 131,400 houses were started up to the end of May, 1971, as against 120,900 over the corresponding period in 1970, an increase of 8·5 per cent.

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on that reply. Can he say what progress it represents in the private sector?

Yes—an increase of 23 per cent. over the corresponding period last year.

Apart from the steps which were taken by the Labour Government, would the right hon. Gentleman tell the House what precise actions, except for advertising, the Government have taken to stimulate house building?

Yes; they are not difficult to itemise. There has been the encouragement given to local authorities to provide mortgages; co-operation with the building societies; and the appointment of a good Minister for Housing and Construction.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that all of us, as we go round the country and visit our constituencies, are aware of the galvanic dynamic which he personally has induced? But would he give the House the starts for May this year compared with May last year, and, since they show a marked drop on May last year, will he be rather more modest in future about making these facile party polemical points?

The May starts this year were an improvement on the April starts, and the April starts were an improvement on the March starts. The total showed a marked improvement. The only—[HON. MEMBERS: "Answer."]—reason which leads the right hon. Gentleman to put that question is that the seasonal adjustment shows that the upsurge in building came rather earlier this year than it did last year.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will set out the aspects of housing which he took into consideration when helping to prepare the White Paper on public expenditure and the estimated amount of expenditure allocated to each aspect.

I would refer the hon. Member to paragraph 35 of Cmnd. 4515.

I am aware that it has not been the previous practice, and I am grateful for the compliment which the right hon. Gentleman has paid to his Labour predecessor. Would he not agree that it is about time we had another look at this matter? How are we to assess whether the Government are planning for local authorities to lend more on mortgages this year than last year if we do not have the figures? As for relying on the word of Ministers, does not our experience of 18th June show that that is a risky business?

It is impossible accurately to predict the increase in local authority mortgages for this coming year but it is certain that it will be substantial. I have already announced a further £46 million increase in expenditure on improvement grants.

Is it not a fact that we in Britain devote only 3·7 per cent. of our G.N.P. to housing, compared with 5·5 per cent. for the rest of Europe?

Common Market?

And other countries—all 22 of them. As this explains why Britain is bottom of the list, with one exception, for the number of houses built per thousand of population, will the Government increase our share of the G.N.P. instead of cutting it by £150 million per annum, as they propose to do?

I am very surprised at the hon. Gentleman's suggestion. The reason why other countries spend a greater proportion of their G.N.P. on housing than we do is that their rents are higher.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what was the total value, seasonally adjusted and at constant prices, of new orders received by contractors during the first quarter of 1971; and what percentage difference this represents relative to the figure for the corresponding quarter of 1970.

According to provisional figures collected by the Department, the value of new orders obtained by contractors in the first quarter of 1971 was £680 million at constant (1963) prices seasonally adjusted. This represents an increase of 3 per cent. over the first quarter of 1970.

Is my right hon. Friend—to whom all of us on this side of the House pay tribute as against the complacency shown by the right hon. Members who sit on the Opposition Front Bench—satisfied with this figure? What further attempts will he make to help the building industry to get on with the job of housing the people, which is its job and not the Government's job?

I am not satisfied. We must do a great deal better. But there is a marked improvement in private sector housing. There is a marked improvement in public works—roads, schools and hospitals. There is a marked improvement in shops and offices. We have not yet achieved the improvement which we seek in industrial building or in the public sector, although I think that that will come when we announce, with the reform of housing finance, the improved grants for slum clearance.

Whatever view may be taken about the future White Paper on housing finance, the proposals in it are not likely to take effect for another couple of years. What does the Minister propose to do to increase public sector local authority housing in the meantime, because that is the kind of housing which will help the constituents of the hon. Member for Hampstead (Mr. Geoffrey Finsberg) and my constituents?

I am already in the happy position of being able to say that public sector housing has not gone down in the way it did in the last two years of the previous Administration.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what estimate he has now made of the effect on house prices consequent upon the halving of selective employment tax payments.

It is estimated that the halving of selective employment tax will result in a decrease of between 1 and 2 per cent. in building costs. This represents about £60 on the cost of an average three-bedroomed house. The reduction in tax will affect public sector housing prices in cases where the existing fixed price contract includes a tax fluctuation clause.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his reply is, to some extent, at variance with informed opinion in the industry, which is that there is very little likelihood of the reduction in the tax being passed on to the consumer? What steps does he intend to take to ensure that it is passed on and that there is an effective reduction in house prices?

I think it will result in an effective reduction in house prices and will certainly be of much more help than the action which the Labour Government took in increasing selective employment tax and putting the betterment levy on land.

Has the right hon. Gentleman made an estimate of the percentage increase which builders made in the price of houses when selective employment tax was introduced?

It was a very considerable addition to their costs.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what proposals he has under consideration for developing Piccadilly Circus; and if he will make a statement.

I understand that the Westminster City Council has produced a revised planning brief for the owners of the sites around the Circus, which takes account of the comments made by the public at the exhibition held in July, 1968. It is hoped that the owners' architects will shortly produce a new scheme. I am sure that the local authorities concerned and I would be delighted to see progress towards presentation of an acceptable project.

While thanking my hon. Friend for that answer, may I ask him whether I can persuade him and the Westminster City Council to agree with me that this famous rendezvous, once known as the heart of the Empire and still the mecca of tourists the world over, to whom London is presently the favourite capital city, is from every aspect a squalid eyesore—a place where every prospect displeases and everything man-made is vile? If he does agree with me, what can he do about it?

I agree to some extent with my hon. Friend on the importance of getting the right scheme for Piccadilly Circus. But getting the right scheme involves careful consideration of it. There has been some progress recently, because the Greater London Council decided on 22nd June, subject to the agreement of the Westminster City Council, to propose to the Greater London Development Plan Inquiry that the G.L.D.P. should be amended so as to make Westminster responsible for the preparation of the action area plan for Piccadilly Circus. I hope that as a result of that progress will be made with the developers and the local authorities. It is their job in the first instance, and I hope that they will proceed with it—[Interruption.]—and, as a right hon. Gentleman opposite says, with public participation.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what is the total number of families which have left the Inner London boroughs during the past three years to take up residence in new or expanding towns.

The number of families from the inner London boroughs who have moved to rented housing in the new or expanding towns in the years 1968, 1969 and 1970 is estimated at approximately 8,500. No information is available about those moving to private housing.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that answer, but does he not agree that many people are deterred from moving from Inner London boroughs to the new and expanding towns by the complication of the arrangements which are made, and that they find it difficult to get the necessary information? Will he please do something about this as a matter of urgency?

My hon. Friend is right; it is not as easy as it should be. I have been working closely with the Peterborough new town to see how its connection with Lambeth can be strengthened and improved.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what assistance is being given by his Department to families from inner London wishing to have houses and jobs in new and expanding towns; and how much this is expected to cost to public funds in the current financial year.

The Industrial Selection Scheme helps people throughout London to find jobs in these towns and they are then eligible for a house. The main costs of operating the scheme fall on the Department of Employment and the Greater London Council.

Will my hon. Friend keep in touch with his hon. Friends at the Department of Trade and Industry to make sure that we do not reach a situation where there are available houses in the new and expanding towns but fewer jobs to go with them than one would wish?

Yes, certainly I can give that indication, and I take note of what my hon. Friend says.

Will the Minister recognise that although many people in Inner London wish to move to new towns, there are many people living on average earnings who wish to remain in Inner London? Does he recognise that his policies and the withdrawal of subsidies will make it increasingly difficult for them to do so?

On the contrary, as I tried to explain—but the hon. Member refuses to understand—the whole purpose of changing the housing subsidies is to give more help to those people who are most in need.

Is my hon. Friend satisfied that there are satisfactory opportunities for the unskilled, who can be trained to do semi-skilled jobs in the new towns, as opposed to the Industrial Selection Scheme, which tends to give opportunities to the skilled?

My hon. Friend is quite right. It would be better if there were more opportunities of this kind, and I will certainly keep this under review.

Question No. 22.

On a point of order. Yesterday's Notices of Motions and Orders of the Day contained a Question in my name, between the Questions of my hon. Friends the Members for Billericay (Mr. McCrindle) and Westmorland (Mr. Jopling), asking the Secretary of State for the Environment what his policy is towards a combined approach to the multiple problems of inner city areas, such as is being undertaken by Shelter Neighbourhood Action project in Liverpool. This Question appears to have been left off the Order Paper. Could this matter be looked into, and could the Minister reply?

I much prefer to take points of order about Questions at the end of Question Time. I will look into the matter.

It is Question No. 66.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will take steps to ensure that local authorities, when reversing a previous decision to sell council houses, will in future be required adequately to reimburse and compensate any prospective purchaser who might previously have entered into negotiations with the local authority with a genuine view to purchase.

It is a well established practice in this country, at all levels of government, for a new administration to keep the public faith when this has been committed by its predecessor.

Will my right hon. Friend go so far as to write to local authorities reminding them of their moral obligation, as constituents of mine in the borough of Waltham Forest and the urban district of Waltham Abbey who have spent their savings on improving houses which they believed they would be able to buy are astounded at the ill-faith and the narrow partisan politics of those who deny them the opportunity of doing so? Is he aware that amongst my constituents are those who sold their cars and cancelled their holidays so as to carry out these improvements, and that they need satisfaction?

"I want to lead a campaign for a genuine property-owning democracy with the right of those who are on the housing list to be able to buy their own homes from the council."

Those of us who have been in local government for a long time have a high regard for it. Irrespective of political parties, are not most people who serve on local authorities highly honourable men? Will the Minister tell us how many such cases as described by the hon. Member for Epping (Mr. Tebbit) he has on his files?

I am afraid it is rather more than I should like to see. [HON. MEMBERS: "How many?"] The hon. Gentleman has not given me notice of that question. I have seen a number of these cases, and I should like to see right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite endorse the views expressed by the right hon. Member for Bermondsey (Mr. Mellish) when he was Minister of Housing.

In view of that last observation, perhaps the Minister will consult his right lion. Friend who, shortly after taking office, forbade the building of houses for sale. This was the point my right hon. Friend the Shadow Patronage Secretary was making in the speech quoted by the Minister, which should have been quoted in full. Is the Minister aware that most local authorities which have this situation on their hands have pursued an honourable course and are arranging to pay compensation, including my own council governing Brent? It is wrong and misleading for this kind of smear campaign to be encouraged by the Minister.

The hon. Gentleman is quite wrong in suggesting that I am quoting his right hon. Friend's words out of context. The passage about the desirability of building for sale came about 10 minutes later in the same speech, and the passage I have quoted was strictly relevant to the question of the sale of council houses. This is what matters, and it is regrettable. I hope that I can interpret the not very buoyant but somewhat ambiguous phrase of the hon. Gentleman as indicating that he would hope that Labour councils which have gone back on previous arrangements will at least keep the contracts which have been made.

Will my right hon. Friend tell me whether he has any statutory powers to lay down the scale of prices which local authorities should charge when they seek to sell their houses? Is he aware that in many cases prices are being pitched too high, and is not this frustrating the intentions of the Government?

Regrettably, I have no powers in this matter, but the great majority of the councils have been prepared under covenant terms to sell houses at a discount of about 20 per cent.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will take steps to alter the name of Heritage Coasts.

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales and I will be happy to consider all suggestions for alternative names.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I had difficulty in hearing that answer? Is he also aware that the name "Heritage Coasts" is nonsense from a grammatical point of view, is likely to be highly misleading to people who visit those areas and has been widely opposed by a variety of organisations? Will he ask the Countryside Commission to think again and suggest a better name?

If my hon. Friend had heard my reply, he would have heard me say that I shall be happy to consider all suggestions for alternative names.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what plans he has to give financial assistance to sports other than football and swimming.

In recent years sports other than association football and swimming have received over 95 per cent. of the total grants given for sport by my Department, and I have no reason to think there will be any significant difference in the proportion this year. How grants are distributed after this year will be a matter for the new Sports Council.

What consultations did the lion. Gentleman have with sports bodies, and, indeed, with the Sports Council, before slashing local grants?

I had all the necessary consultations with the Sports Council on matters on which it could properly advise me. I thought it right that the House of Commons should be the first to hear about the use of Government funds for sports purposes.

Is my hon. Friend aware that his announcement has caused considerable confusion among local authorities, particularly voluntary bodies, which have already raised considerable sums of money, for example, at Ashbourne in my constituency for swimming pools, and which are now left high and dry and do not know whether to proceed? Will he look at the matter again?

I assure my hon. Friend that all local sports bodies which have had applications in the pipeline will receive grant if they have already received notification from my Department that they have been given the necessary priority. If they have not received that priority, they will be caught by the new policy.

Will the hon. Gentleman seek powers to give financial assistance to chess as well as to the other sports and games to which reference has been made? Does he realise that chess is played in this country by more young people than any other game, apart from football?

The definition laid down in regard to which sports and recreations are to be supported refers to "physical recreation" and, with the best will in the world, I would not describe chess as a physical recreation.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that his decision to end these grants of £1 million a year to the ordinary sports clubs has caused widespread dismay throughout the whole of sport? The hon. Gentleman stated a moment ago that he consults the Sports Council on matters on which he thinks it can advise him. But since he never consulted that body or the governing bodies of sport about the effect of this catastrophic decision, and in view of the dismay it has caused, why does he act so arrogantly in not consulting the body set up to advise him on these matters?

The hon. Gentleman knows a great deal more about catastrophe in sport than I do. At a time when the present Government have enhanced the status of the Sports Council, have widened its responsibilities and have given it a great deal more money, I am not prepared to be lectured by the hon. Gentleman.

Is the Minister aware that the extra £1 million which the Department is to give to the independent Sports Council is being found from the money which has been slashed from grant? Is he not making a bogus point, and would he answer the simple question why in ending this scheme he did not consult the people appointed to advise him, the Sports Council?

On the second point—[HON. MEMBERS: "Answer!"] If hon. Members opposite will listen, I will seek to give an answer. The hon. Gentleman asked two questions. The second part dealt with consultation. I was dealing with the funds of national Government, and it seemed to me right that the House of Commons should be the first to know this information. As to the first part of the question, the hon. Gentleman is totally wrong. He suggests that the additional £1 million to be made available to the Sports Council—which the hon. Gentleman was never able to obtain during his term of office—has somehow been found by slashing local capital grants. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment was able to find this additional money for sport because of the advantages of setting up the Department of the Environment and thus being able to make these new funds available for sport.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.

Let us come to cooler waters—reservoirs. Mr. David Clark, Question No. 26.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he is satisfied with facilities for public access to reservoirs; and if he will make a statement.

Because I was not satisfied when I assumed responsibility for sport that everything possible was being done to make full use of the recreational potential of reservoirs, I asked all statutory water undertakings in England to review their policies in consultation with regional sports councils. I am glad to be able to say that no fewer than 34 water undertakings have recently made, or plan to make, increased provision for recreational use of their reservoirs, and I shall be considering what follow-up action might be called for on the basis of the regional sports councils' detailed reports.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his reply. Will he further press the water boards to give access to the public to the water's edge of these reservoirs? Does he realise that there is hardly any reservoir that allows the public this facility?

Wherever it is possible for the public to be given safe access to reservoirs, then requests which have been made by my Department, followed up by the regional sports councils, are in that direction. The hon. Member will understand that there are certain reservoirs where matters of safety make it difficult to insist on such a course.

Apart from the matter of safety can my hon. Friend, who has knowledge of Grafton Water in my constituency, say why these magnificent facilities cannot be provided in most other reservoirs?

My right hon. and learned Friend will know that Grafton Water had the advantage when originally planned of recreational considerations being taken into account at the beginning. This is not the case with some of the older reservoirs, where the problem is rather more difficult.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Derwent Reservoir in the County of Durham, which was opposed by some conservationists on scenic grounds, is now a beauty spot with planned access and also with controlled access for boating? Will he urge on the responsible authorities for the older reservoirs the need to develop such facilities?

Yes, indeed. I had the pleasure of visiting Derwent Reservoir, and I agree absolutely with what the hon. Gentleman has said. The efforts of the Government are directed to persuading and assisting other water undertakings to do the same sort of job where it is practicable to do so.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what estimates he has made of the savings to Government funds and increased costs to local government funds with regard to his decision on the future of the Sports Council.

There is no basis in fact for doing this. The Government's allocation to sport is being substantially increased, and will be distributed to better effect. Local government expenditure will depend on the use local authorities choose to make of their powers.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that we are still not satisfied with the situation? Many hon. Members on this side of the House and certain sporting bodies believe that some clever duplicity is taking place over this matter. In view of the hon. Gentleman's statement that direct grants to local clubs will be discontinued, can he assure the House that local clubs will get the same or more money as easily as they did in the past?

To a great extent local sports clubs ought to be supported by local funds. The advantage of the changes I have announced is that national funds, substantially increased, will be able to be distributed for the benefit of sport as a whole. I am sure that this is the right way forward.

Having regard to the fact that in making this announcement the Minister expressed the view that these grants should be paid by local authorities, and in view of the fact that he not only did not bother to consult the Sports Council but did not even bother to consult local authorities—and indeed, received no commitment from them to take over these local grants—is not his arrogance to the sports bodies matched by the impudence of his attitude to local authorities?

The hon. Gentleman will be disappointed, because the sporting bodies have shown considerable enthusiasm for these proposals. I emphasise that the Sports Council, acting independently, will have substantially more money than the hon. Gentleman was able to get for it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a further statement on the Channel Tunnel.

No, Sir.

In a previous exchange the Under-Secretary of State referred to information showing that a road link would be uneconomic. Will the Minister publish this information?

I will certainly look at the point. Is the hon. Gentleman referring to a road tunnel?

A road link.

I will certainly look at the point, and I shall be grateful if the hon. Gentleman will explain more fully what he means.

The previous exchange referred to any form of road link across the Channel; and, although the Minister has many times said that he would provide information if requested, he has failed to do so in reply to a number of Questions I have put to him. Does that view apply to this matter also?

The hon. Gentleman is an habitual questioner. I do my best to provide exhaustive and constructive answers. I am sorry that I have disappointed him. I am not quite sure lo what he is referring. If he is referring to the possibility of a road tunnel, I am obliged to tell him that my advice is that ventilation problems, apart from anything else, would be an almost insurmountable barrier.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will give an assurance that he will announce the results of his review of the code of compensation for compulsory purchase before the end of this year and that he introduce legislation to improve compensation during the life of this Parliament.

As I told my hon. Friends the Members for Buckingham (Mr. Benyon) and Blackpool, South (Mr. Blaker) on 12th May, I shall announce details of our proposals when our review has been concluded and I hope to introduce legislation at the earliest possible date.—[Vol. 817, c. 359–61.]

Will my right hon. Friend accept that when a house is compulsorily purchased, the occupant is giving up something for the benefit of the community? Is it not only reasonable to expect that he should receive enough compensation to allow him to buy a similar property? Does my right hon. Friend appreciate that the Chancellor is charging capital gains tax on these transactions, which makes this more difficult?

This is a complicated matter. We are examining the problem in great depth, and we will publish proposals as soon as possible.

Would the Minister look at the powers and practices of some local authorities in encouraging house owners to move out of their property some weeks in advance of a visit by the district valuer, who visits the property after vandals have taken their toll, with the consequence that the resultant valuation inflicts a grave injustice on the owners?

I have not been contacted about this particular practice, but if the hon. Gentleman would like to give me details, I will certainly look into it.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what was the purpose of the meeting which took place on 14th Tune, 1971, between one of the Under-Secretaries of State and the Devon River Authority and Southwest Devon Water Board; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if, following the recent visit to the Southwest of the Under-Secretary of State, he is now able to make a statement regarding the water shortage in Devon.

My hon. Friend visited the South-West and met representatives of the Devon and Cornwall river authorities and water undertakers to hear and see something of their problems first hand, and to find out how central Government might help with the immediate problems, in particular of drought in parts of North Devon. In the event, rain has put off the need to use stand-pipes to restrict consumption. The North Devon Water Board is now exploring the practicability of partly filling the Meldon reservoir in advance of the completion of the dam so as to avoid shortages next year.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that very full statement. Would he give an assurance that the House will not be asked to reverse the decision of one of its Select Committees rejecting the proposal for a reservoir at Swincombe on Dartmoor?

I have no power to give such an assurance, because if a Bill came before Parliament with any such proposal it would be up to Parliament to decide.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what study has been made of the possible consequences of extended licensing hours on the level of road accidents.

None, Sir, but I am sure that this will be among the matters considered by Lord Erroll's committee on liquor licensing laws.

Is the Minister seriously suggesting that no study whatsover has been made of this matter by his Department? When he is reported to be considering changes in the breathalyser law and in many other road safety matters, is it not strange that the curious fellow at the Home Office is determined to turn us into a nation of all-night drinkers? Is it not time that the Minister got a grip of the Home Secretary?

The hon. Gentleman is living slightly in the past when he refers to "the curious fellow at the Home Office".

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to pursue the Home Secretary on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement about the rôle of the Local Government Boundary Commission and, in particular, whether the Commission will be able to adjust county boundaries in future.

My consultations with the local authority associations have shown there is very general agreement on the proposal to set up a permanent and independent Local Government Boundary Commission for England. It is intended that the Commission shall make recommendations about local government boundaries and electoral areas. The Commission's future work, after reorganisation, will accordingly cover all boundaries and it will be able to propose adjustments to county boundaries.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement about progress on the Elloughton bypass on the A63.

Work is on schedule and should be completed in October.

Would my hon. Friend say whether compensation has now been paid to all the landowners and others concerned?

I shall have to write to my hon. Friend with the details of that matter.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment when he expects to complete his discussions with local planning authorities and regional councils about the Severnside Study.

As we are only just starting the consultations, it is too early to say when they will be completed. They will be pursued as quickly as possible with all parties concerned.

Would my hon. Friend bear in mind that the pressures on the green belt to the north and east of Bristol are already extreme and that to many of us it is extraordinary that the Severnside Study did not even mention the shortly to be opened Avon Bridge? Would he please bear in mind that a final decision should not be made until the exact shape of Area No. 26 is decided.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising these points. They will all be taken into consideration when examining the study.

Would the Minister also bear in mind the fact that there are two sides of the Channel?

I presume that I know to which Channel the hon. Gentleman refers. The Welsh planning authorities and Planning Council will be brought into the study.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will take steps to equip all intersections on the M1 motorway in Yorkshire with lighting.

No, Sir.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that some such intersections of motorways in Yorkshire are so equipped and some are not? Does not this suggest a lack of policy on the part of the Department of the Environment? Is not some uniformity desirable on safety grounds?

Where the connecting roads carrying traffic to and from these motorway interchanges are lit, it is perfectly reasonable coat the interchanges themselves should be lit. But, generally, where there is grade separation, it is not necessary.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement concerning the large number of fatal and other accidents which occurred on pedestrian crossings in England and Wales during 1970.

It is safer to cross at a crossing than elsewhere but I share the hon. Member's concern about these casualties. My right hon. Friend announced yesterday new measures to improve the safety of zebra crossings.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that reply. Is he aware that there were no fewer than 1,722 serious casualties, including a number of fatal accidents, on pedestrian crossings last year? Is his Department giving full consideration to the possibility of more road islands being installed on pedestrian crossings as a means of ensuring a greater safety factor?

My Department is considering all these possibilities. The short answer to the hon. Gentleman is that yesterday my right hon. Friend introduced a series of new safety measures which has been exceedingly well received.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment (1) why the maps and diagrams published in connection with his proposed roads programme all show the proposed M1 8 extension as bypassing the County Borough of Doncaster when he has published proposals showing it going through the town;

The lines on the maps illustrating my right hon. Friend's announcement of additions to the road programme were diagrammatic. Actual alignments are determined by statutory procedure. The inspector's report on the public inquiry into the proposed extension of the M18 is now under consideration. The decision will take into account the points made by the hon. Member.

Irrespective of the lack of clarity of the maps and diagrams, is not the Minister's proposal to put the motorway through the heart of this county borough completely irreconcilable with his published policy of the week before last to bypass towns and boroughs? Will he look again at his proposal.

There has never been any suggestion of putting the motorway through the heart of Doncaster. The lines on the map show it touching the fringe. It goes through the outer area of the town.

Will the Minister show the most indecent haste in this matter in view of the fact that, one of these days, we hope that the Ml8 will get us quicker to Hull?

I am anxious to settle the matter and to give the hon. Gentleman proper access to his town.