asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received to date about the proposals contained in the White Paper, The Reform of Housing Finance in Scotland, Command Paper No. 4727; and what reply he has sent.

I have received and acknowledged representations from the Scottish Landowners Federation and from Coatbridge Town Council.

That is very gratifying. I am sure that the landowners are very interested in this matter.

Will the Secretary of State tell us how the speech made by the Under-Secretary, when winding up the debate on this White Paper last Thursday in which he said that no saving in public expenditure was involved, squares with paragraph 35 of the White Paper "New Policies for Public Spending" which specifically states:

"By the middle of the decade this is expected to lead to a saving in public expenditure of £100–£200 million …"?

That is clearly a contradiction. Will the right hon. Gentleman clear it up for the House and for the country?

I have done this before, but I am glad to do it again for the hon. Gentleman. The amount now being spent on subsidies is not to be reduced. In fact, for Scotland it is likely to increase in the coming years. But if the previous system had continued, the amount would have escalated into a very much greater sum by the middle 1970s. That is where the saving comes in.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will now withdraw his proposals on the reform of Housing Finance in Scotland, Command Paper No. 4727, in view of the policy of the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced on 19th July, 1971 concerning a voluntary prices and incomes policy.

No, Sir.

Does the Secretary of State realise that we did not get an answer to our argument that this was inflationary within the so-called prices and incomes policy which the Government are seeking to adopt? Will he comment on that and confirm that, on the day after the White Paper to which my hon. Friend the Member for Fife, West (Mr. William Hamilton) referred in the last Question, he said, according to the Glasgow Herald, that he was cutting that figure, which he talked about as escalating, by £10 million to £20 million in the fiscal year 1973–74?

I should need to see the article in the Glasgow Herald, which I have not seen and which no one has produced to me, to answer the hon. Gentleman's last point and to explain on what it was based. Regarding the present situation and the proposals in the White Paper, the annual average increase in council rents is to be limited to 50p a week. That means that the rents can increase only by reasonable steps each year. That increase must be related also to the equivalent limit which the Labour Government set on the average increase in rents of 37½p at the height of a pay freeze.

Will the right hon. Gentleman accept that these proposals, in conjunction with the other means tests, will create a situation which many working men in Scotland, although they get a 25 per cent. increase in wages, will be worse off in consequence of all the means-tested benefits which they will lose?

I do not accept that. The means test, if the hon. Gentleman wishes to refer to it as such, is not new. It is a test under rent rebate schemes which was strongly advocated by the Labour Government in at least two circulars sent to all local authorities in Scotland.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what action he has taken to increase the proportion of home ownership in Scotland; and whether he will make a statement.

We have abolished betterment levy and the Land Commission and we have halved selective employment tax. We have widened the scope of the option mortgage scheme and reached agreement with the building societies that they should extend their lending arrangements. We have removed the limit on local authority mortgage lending and have told authorities that they are free to sell council houses.

I thank my right hon. Friend for that Answer. Does he appreciate that the percentage of owner-occupied houses in Scotland is 25 per cent. compared with 50 per cent. in England, 53 per cent. in Wales and 55 per cent. in Czechoslovakia? Does he appreciate that the action which he has taken will do much to stimulate house ownership and help to relieve unemployment? Has his attention been drawn to the Report produced by the then Minister of Public Building and Works in 1963 on the Production of Building Components in Shipyards? Does that Report help the shipyard order position?

Order. The Minister is not responsible for housing in Czechoslovakia.

I am well aware of the contribution which the private sector, in addition to the public sector, can make to housing in Scotland. I am also aware of the survey on housing in Scotland carried out by Professor Cullingworth in which he indicated that the proportion of home ownership in Scotland was lower than anywhere else west of the Soviet Union.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider giving public authorities the power to build houses for home ownership and for sale?

We have already given local authorities guidance on and approval for the sale of council houses in certain circumstances. That is what we are concentrating on now.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will list the local authorities which have now made written submissions to him with regard to the boundary changes envisaged in the recent White Paper on the Reform of Local Government in Scotland, Command Paper No. 4583.

With permission, I will circulate a list in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Will the right hon. Gentleman admit that it will be an extensive list? As this matter is of vital importance, in view of forthcoming legislation, will he provide access to the documents by placing them either in the Library of the House or in Dover House?

The authorities have been invited to put forward their views. Many of them are concerned with local problems of minor adjustments. I do not think that much would be gained by circulating their views. I should certainly need to ask their permission before they were published. The work is continuing and the information that has been sent in has been most helpful to the Government in reaching conclusions on these problems.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for agreeing to publish this information. Does he realise that it has taken five Questions and a dozen letters to get this out of him?

What I have said is that I shall publish the list of authorities which have sent in their representations. I have not said that I shall publish all the representations.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what further consideration he has given to providing the Highlands and Islands Development Board with financial incentive differential to attract industry as was recommended by the Select Committee on Scottish Affairs in 1970.

Since the Select Committee reported there have been several discussions with the Board about the industrial incentives available in the Highlands and Islands. These have been increased during this period, and the present differential seems to me reasonable.

Surely the hon. Gentleman will admit, as the Select Committee on Scottish Affairs established, that the differential is not enough to make any difference to an investment decision for a company in the Highlands? If the Government believe in the development of the Highlands, especially at a time when unemployment is higher than for 20 years, the hon. Gentleman must act now to change the situation or the Highlands will again be the tail-end Charlie at the time of recession.

We believe in development in the Highlands. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will not ignore the improvements that have been made in incentives since the Select Committee's Report. There have been improvements in building grants and in loans for advance factories. I assure the hon. Gentleman that the matter is under discussion with the Board, and that we shall keep the position under review.

Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that the economic collapse in West Central Scotland in particular and the measures taken to attract industry there, such as the creation of a special development area, make it all the more difficult for the Highlands and Islands Development Board to attract industry to the Highlands? Is he not aware, also, that the miserable measures which he has taken since the Select Committee reported are completely inadequate to attract new manufacturing industry to the Highlands?

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman is ungrateful for what has been done for the Highlands. I ask him to bear two points in mind. The special incentives given to other areas decrease the differential by a certain amount, but the hon. Gentleman must remember that the kind of industry which the Highlands attract is not necessarily the same as that attracted to the central area. Second, despite what is happening in central Scotland, and the help that is given there, the Highland area enjoys special advantages in loans and grant assistance.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how much money was approved by the Highlands and Islands Development Board in grants and loans in the first quarter of 1971; and how this figure compares with the corresponding periods in 1969 and 1970.

In the first quarter of 1971 the Board approved grants and loans amounting to £490,266. The figures for the same quarter in 1970 and 1969 are £372,194 and £194,000.

I thank my hon. Friend for those figures, which entirely contradict some of the suggestions by hon. Members opposite that the Board is sleeping. He will know, of course, that a great amount of these loans and grants have gone to help with the increase in tourist accommodation, but, unfortunately, this is still much below what is required in the Highlands. Would he consult his right hon. Friend so that necessary legislation may be introduced to provide grants to people buying large old houses and improving them? At present, these grants are not available because they are not building additional rooms. This is very important in the Highlands.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the first part of his supplementary question. The figures that I have announced are an increase of over £100,000 on the past year. I certainly take note of what he said in the second part of his question.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the real need in the Highlands is for an increase in the number of jobs in manufacturing industries, and that this is where the new Board seems to be less successful than its predecessor?

Equally, what the hon. Member must realise is that, while one wants to see more jobs in Scotland—more jobs in relation to the money spent—it is particularly encouraging, in the face of the legacy of economic stagnation that his party left behind when they left office, that in the first quarter of this year the Board found so many projects which were worth approving.

Is this sum outwith any sums which might be spent by the Highlands and Islands Development Board in purchasing land for public ownership in Scotland, or is it included in this amount?

The answer is quite simple. These are grants and loans approved for projects in the Highlands or for individuals coming to help with those projects. I do not think that that supplementary has anything at all to do with this Question.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what discussions he has held with the Highlands and Islands Development Board regarding the effect of recent tax changes on the prosperity of Highland counties.

None, but I am satisfied that the effects will be beneficial.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that my estimate is that the selective employment tax has cost the Highland counties over £10 million? Surely the Board welcomes the progressive removal of this burden, which has taken out £2 million more than the Board's splendid work has put in.

I believe that my hon. Friend has already received information from the Chancellor of the Exchequer on his first point. The halving of S.E.T. and the announcement that it will be abolished in two years has been greeted with great relief by the Highlands, an area which probably suffered from it more than any other part of Britain.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not prepared to rebut the nonsensical figures of his hon. Friend the Member for Perth and East Perthshire (Mr. MacArthur)? Is he unaware that more than twice the amount which has been alleged to have been collected in S.E.T. was spent on one project in Invergorden alone and that, since the abolition of investment grants, the Highlands have seen no new major industry coming in at all? What is the right hon. Gentleman doing to build on the foundations laid by the previous Government to build up manufacturing industry in the Moray Firth area?

If the hon. Gentleman was listening to a reply just now, he will have heard that the increase in the amount of grant and loan given in the first quarter of 1971 represented a considerable increase on the amounts which the Highlands and Islands Development Board had given out for new projects in the same period in the previous two years.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what advice and encouragement he has given to local authorities for the provision of all-weather running tracks for the training and coaching of young athletes, particularly in the Glasgow area.

The provision of sports facilities is primarily a matter for local authorities. Advice is available to them from both the Scottish Office and the Scottish Council of Physical Recreation on individual proposals, for example on the most appropriate surfaces for running tracks. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that my right hon. Friend and I intend to encourage the provision of sports and recreational facilities in Scotland.

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his elevation to the Front Bench and hope that he will have some happy years there—[Interruption.] I can promise him—[Interruption.]—

Order. The idea that Scottish Question Time can be a happy time is a little unusual.

Apart from anything else, I am a realist, and I promise the hon. Gentleman that future Questions will not be as easy as this one today.

I appreciate that power to provide these facilities rests with local authorities, but to date they have not made very much progress in providing all-weather tracks. I should like the hon. Gentleman to move from encouraging to stimulating local authorities to provide these tracks.

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's remarks. I am somewhat apprehensive at hearing my own voice again.

The scheme for grants to local sports clubs ended on 10th June, 1971. It will be open to local sports clubs and to local authorities to submit applications for grants towards such schemes to the new Executive Sports Council when it comes into being on 1st April, 1972. It will be for the Council to prepare its new scheme of grants and to decide whether to grant aid any particular project.

Would the hon. Gentleman care to inform the House of any developments about the possibility of using Hampden Park as a sports centre for the whole of Scotland?

My hon. Friend has had discussions with Hampden Park, but at this stage I am not in a position to make any statement.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland (1) what is the average rent of county councils in the landward areas and what the standard rent will be after the transitional period as contained in the White Paper, The Reform of Housing Finance in Scotland, Command Paper No. 4727;

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what the standard rent will be in the burghs of Buckhaven and Methil, and Kirkcaldy, after the transitional period, as stated in the White Paper, The Reform of Housing Finance in Scotland, Command Paper No. 4727.

The information about present rents and about deficits on housing revenue accounts is published in "Rents of Houses owned by Public Authorities in Scotland, 1970", Cmnd 4607, and "Rating Review January 1971". The level of rents required to balance housing revenue accounts will depend on the amounts of the new subsidies and increased costs, which will vary from authority to authority and cannot be forecast with any precision.

Would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that he has a responsibility to inform council tenants and local authorities in Scotland that if the terms of the White Paper become law it will mean that after the transitional period council tenants and other public bodies will have £156 added to their present average rents per year, and that that will be the standard rent?

Second, would not the right hon. Gentleman agree that his answer to the second part of the Question shows that if local authorities were to square their housing revenue accounts the figure would be less of a rent increase than £156? Does the right hon. Gentleman propose to back the trade union movement in its demand for increased wages to meet this colossal and scandalous proposition of increased rents?

I do not accept the hon. Gentleman's estimates. The rebate scheme will, for the first time, be a national scheme throughout the public sector and the private sector. It will help those who cannot afford the new rents. As I said earlier today, rents can rise only by a certain reasonable step each year. The previous Government doubled the average council house rent in Scotland in 5½ years. Ratepayers in Scotland will benefit—and many tenants are ratepayers, too—because at the moment they are paying 37 per cent. of the cost of council housing, with tenants paying 40 per cent.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that my constituency is an area of high unemployment, with a present rate of 6·3 per cent., and that it is also a low-wage-earning area? It is quite easy to project what the standard rent will be in Kirkcaldy at the end of the transitional period, particularly in respect of the four-apartment house. I understand that the weekly payment will be more than £5.

Will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to provide more generous rent rebates under this scheme or, better still, will he tear up this White Paper on Housing Finance and introduce an improved and more generous subsidy structure for providing houses in Scotland?

The hon. Gentleman has omitted to mention the housing expenditure subsidy and the Exchequer subsidy towards the rent rebate schemes. These schemes will apply to persons who are unemployed or who receive low incomes. This is the first time that there has been a scheme to cover all such people.

Is it not the case that this scheme is designed for areas where there are high unemployment and low incomes, and that this scheme will be of benefit not only in council housing but also in private housing?

It will certainly benefit the whole housing situation in Scotland to remove the incredible distortions which exist at present, when ratepayers are paying nearly as much as tenants for council housing. At the same time, it will enable us to move forward with slum clearance and many other things which we need to carry out.

Is it not the case that these Questions relate to the standard rent which is aimed at balancing the housing revenue account? Will the right hon. Gentleman not be honest and tell us that in the constituency of Motherwell it would require a multiplication of the present rent by a factor of three in order to reach the standard rent?

When the hon. Gentleman raised this matter in Committee he made a calculation and said that if the rent were trebled it would produce a standard rent of £6 in Motherwell. We did a quick check and discovered that he was wrong and that trebling the rent would produce a standard rent of £3 15s. That calculation was made quickly, but it showed that the hon. Gentleman was twice out in his own estimate.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the amounts of grants being made to grant-aided schools in Scotland.

Subject to the condition that the total grant must not exceed the school's deficit, the basic grants set out in the Grant-Aided Secondary Schools (Scotland) Grant (Amendment) Regulations, 1971 may be increased in 1971–72 by the amounts shown in the table which, with permission, I will circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT. I cannot yet say how much will actually be paid.

May I add my congratulations to the hon. Gentleman on his promotion? I do not want to land him with a skeleton which his predecessor left behind in his cupboard, but does not he recall that we debated this matter on 13th July when questions were asked by hon. Members on this side of the House about the amount to be paid to grant-aided schools in Scotland? The information was not given, but it appeared on 20th July in the Press, to whom it was presumably given on 19th July. Is this not a disgraceful way of treating the House of Commons, to produce in the Press figures which have been requested but which have been withheld from the House? Will the hon. Gentleman, who I know was not responsible for this since the bird who was responsible has flown, undertake not to treat Parliament in such a disgraceful way?

I cannot accept the accuracy of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary. The purpose of the amending Regulations which we debated that night was not to prescribe an additional amount of grant but to enable the Secretary of State to pay increased grant to take account of rises in prices and costs. The actual amounts were not determined in advance and they will not be available until the schools' final accounts have been received and examined.

May I also add my congratulations to the hon. Gentleman on his promotion, although I cannot hope or expect him to be on the Government side of the House for very much longer?

Is he aware that this answer is not good enough? The subject was debated in the House, and the following week we were given the figures in the Press, but only today are we told that the information will be circulated in the OFFICIAL REPORT, I accept that the hon. Gentleman is not responsible, but I hope that he will stiffen up some of his colleagues in the Scottish Office and not insult Parliament, as has happened on this occasion.

I note what the hon. Gentleman says, but I cannot accept it. The important point in the debate was that my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward Taylor) stated that relevant costs had increased by 20 per cent. and that the grant would take account of this.

May I also add my warm congratulations to my hon. Friend on his new cap? May I ask him to resist and reject every assault on variety and freedom of choice in education?

I thank my hon. Friend. He can rest assured that I shall be supporting the grant-aided schools.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what recent discussions he has had with representatives of the men employed in the Upper Clyde shipyards.

I have had a number of such discussions, formal and informal, the most recent being a long meeting in Glasgow yesterday.

The right hon. Gentleman will understand that meeting people in order to sell a brutal policy after it has been decided hardly qualifies for the word "discussions". Has the right hon. Gentleman learned from his meetings yesterday that every section of Scottish opinion is shocked and appalled at the butchery decision which was made, and in saying that I include the Churches, the town council, the trade unions, industry and commerce alike? Will the right hon. Gentleman persuade his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, who seems to be making the running here, to rescind his policy and to come up with a sensible policy for the development of the yards along with the workers who are demonstrating for the right to work?

That is not a reflection of the discussions in which I took part yesterday, when there were representatives of all those concerned with this very difficult problem. We had an opportunity of discussing and explaining the advice profferred by the four advisers on shipbuilding in the Upper Clyde, which was issued only last Thursday afternoon. Having debated that in Parliament, my right hon. Friend and I had the opportunity of very long discussions with the different sections concerned, including shop stewards. Some of the shop stewards took the line which the hon. Gentleman described, but others who took part in our discussions were considering and discussing the proposals which had been put forward by the four advisers, who included three leading Scots whose main concern must be the welfare of Scotland and Clydeside.

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept or reject any responsibility for maintaining existing employment in U.C.S. until a viable alternative exists?

As I have already said in this House, my objective is to maintain the maximum of employment while reconstructing and rearranging the shipbuilding industry on the Upper Clyde so that it will become a successful industry which can handle orders and compete with the rest of the world.

Will the right hon. Gentleman abandon the defensive complacency of the Government Front Bench and tell us whether he has been at all disturbed in his view of the Tightness of Cabinet decisions by what he has heard and seen in the last week? Is he not now convinced, as Secretary of State for Scotland, that there is a case for asking the Cabinet to reconsider its decision?

Any defensive complacency which I have observed has come from right hon. Members opposite, who were responsible for setting up U.C.S. and who left us with this problem which exploded in the form of a liquidation. We have been discussing proposals that were put forward by the advisory group and which had to be put forward quickly because in Scotland the period of provisional liquidation can last for only a certain time. The Government were guaranteeing wages during that period, and it is our intention, having explained these matters, to do what the Government think should be done, but it requires co-operation by all concerned.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the grossly unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter at the earliest opportunity on the Adjournment.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what proportion of the £33 million public works programme has been asked for by Lanarkshire County Council; and what reply he has sent.

I have not yet received the Council's full proposals, but under the primary school improvement programme for 1971–72 and 1972–73, about half of which is to be provided from the £33 million, proposals by the Council totalling £1,350,000 have already been approved.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that when he gets these proposals from the local authority concerned, included among some of the things they want are at least three primary schools in my constituency? Will the right hon. Gentleman give serious consideration to this matter? We want him to give us, first, the schools which are so much required and, secondly, jobs in Lanarkshire, bearing in mind that 8·3 per cent. of the insurable population are unemployed at the moment.

As I said in my original reply, we have already extended a considerable amount of this new programme to primary school improvement in Lanarkshire. I am well aware of the problems of Lanarkshire; I received a deputation from the Lanarkshire Development Council only about a week ago.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the average amount paid to principals in general medical practice in Scotland in respect of ancillary assistance provided by general practitioners in each year since such payments began; and what he expects it to be in 1971.

As the Answer contains a number of figures I shall with permission circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

In adding my congratulations to the hon. Member, may I hope that his post will interfere less with his rugby than the Prime Minister's post interferes with his sailing? In view of the fact that this money is being paid to general practitioners in addition to an already substantial remuneration, amounting in England and Wales—there is no reason to think that it is less in Scotland—to £7,800, will the Minister ask his right hon. Friend to do everything possible to encourage in Scotland the provision of health centres and group practice, so that the doctors who are receiving this very large sum of money can provide patients with better attention and better facilities than they provide at present?

I am glad that the hon. Member thinks that sailing and rugby are manly sports. His supplementary question covers his second Question, No. 27. I am particularly glad that a rising amount of money is going to ancillary staff—both in the number of practices making claims and in the total payments. This is an encouraging trend and should provide better facilities for patients.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the average remuneration paid to principals in general medical practice in Scotland in each of the years 1960 to 1970; and what he expects it to be in 1971.

As the Answer contains a number of figures, I shall, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that reply. Is it not a fact that the sum to emerge will be very high? I indicated earlier that it is likely to be in the region of £7,800. As consultations are taking place with the medical profession for a further increase, will he ask his right hon. Friend to confer with the Secretary of State for the Social Services with a view to the medical profession being urged to help the para-medical branches—I have in mind the medical laboratory technicans—without whom the whole of the medical profession would collapse? Will the hon. Gentleman see that pressure is brought to bear on the medical profession to help the lower-paid people who work in this important branch of medicine?

I appreciate that the hon. Gentleman speaks from personal experience. I will look into the matter and give it further consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a further statement about the proposed Scottish Sports Council; and whether this Council will be empowered to make grants to local sports clubs.

The Sports Council for Scotland will have a wide discretion in making grants from the funds available to it and it will be open to the Council to assist local voluntary sports clubs where it so decides.

May I thank my hon. Friend for that reply and congratulate him and his predecessor on achieving a different system of disbursement of grants for Scotland than obtains in England? What is the earliest date by which applications for these grants will be entertained? Will it be before April, 1972?

I thank my hon. Friend for his remarks. As he knows, the present system was wound up in June and the new system will begin in April next year. I hope to announce the members of the new Sports Council later in the autumn. I hope that soon after the body is set up and has decided its policies, it will be able to receive applications.

What consultations did take place on this new scheme with the governing bodies of sport in Scotland?

The Government have of course been in close touch with the Scottish Council for Physical Recreation, and in the light of all the considerations, we believe that this is the best result for Scotland.

Then the answer is that you have not consulted them.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many primary school teachers in Glasgow have lost their salary addition as a result of their schools being no longer designated schools of teacher shortage.

I understand from Glasgow Education Authority that the number will be about 560.

Is it the case that no proper notice was given to the teachers affected and that there was no proper consultation with the teachers' organisations concerned? Would my hon. Friend ensure that Glasgow Corporation takes into account the views of the teaching profession?

This is a matter for the Corporation—it is free to consult should it wish to do so—but I will pass on my hon. Friend's remarks to the authority.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland from information available to him from international sources, how many countries in Europe grow sugar beet in a more northerly latitude than the Scottish Border.

Beet is grown in Denmark and Sweden with yields per acre very much higher than in Scotland. Some beet is also grown in Finland.

Would my hon. Friend agree that experience has shown that farmers in Scotland can, over a considerable period of years, grow beet with yields between 17 and 20 tons per acre and that there is no agricultural reason why the beet sugar industry should not be encouraged and retained in Scotland?

Equally, my hon. Friend must realise that the actual yield in Scotland—although certain farmers have achieved high yields—is 12·6 tons per acre. For this reason, international comparisons are not necessarily valid.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what advice he has received from Scottish local chambers of commerce on their attitude towards entry into the European Economic Community.

The Aberdeen and Dundee Chambers of Commerce have both written to my right hon. Friend. The Aberdeen Chamber reported the results of a preliminary survey showing a high proportion of individual industrial firms in the North-East in favour of entry. Reservations were expressed regarding the need for safeguards for inshore fishing, about which Dundee also expressed concern.

Is it not a fact that of 170 manufacturing members circulated with the pro forma, only 35 replied? Does my hon. Friend agree that a 20 per cent. reply represents a very small proportion of the total number involved?

Equally, my hon. Friend must remember that these were preliminary results which the Chamber of Commerce thought it worthwhile to publish. If my hon. Friend looks at the survey he will see that those involved in the marketing of agricultural produce and agricultural machinery were particularly in favour of entry.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will now make a statement on his study of the Hunter Report on Fishing Rights.

My right hon. Friend expects to complete this summer his consideration of the Report. Thereafter, his conclusions and proposals will be published in a White Paper.

Hopeless, is it not, Sir?

That is the first ray of hope so far from the benches opposite. It is obvious that the hon. Gentleman has been pushed into silence by this announcement.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he has yet given his permission for the demolition of Edinburgh Haymarket Station frontage, scheduled as being of architectural and historic interest.

An application for consent to demolish the building would fall to be considered in the first instance by Edinburgh Corporation, as the local planning authority.

Did my right hon. Friend see the rather ominous reports in the Edinburgh newspapers last week about proposals to erect blocks of 20 or more storeys, which would be totally inappropriate in this area, which I agree needs development? Will he watch this matter with great care to see that the City is not destroyed?

I am aware of reports that have appeared in the Press, and I assure my hon. Friend that I will watch this matter very closely.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland why he has deferred publication of the Green Paper on Local Government Finance in Scotland until now.

The Green Paper was published on 28th July following the Government's review of this subject and in accordance with the forecasts given in previous Parliamentary replies.

After this long delay the right hon. Gentleman has finally produced a Green Paper which is far less comprehensive than any complaints he made when in opposition. Will he make up for the delay by ensuring that the House has an opportunity to debate the Green Paper before the end of the Session? Will he see that we have an opportunity to debate a glaring omission from the Green Paper—namely, the omission of any comment about the loss of industrial rating due to extensive closures? I am referring in particular to the way in which Clydebank, Dumbarton and other Scottish towns are being sadly affected by the loss of rating, not just for one year and at once but for several years. Do the Government intend to pay transitional grants to help to relieve this burden on these areas?

We can discuss this matter, but when a debate will take place in Parliament is for my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House to decide. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that we have a lot of business to transact before the end of the Session. I will, however, make sure that my right hon. Friend is informed of his request. I take note of the last part of his supplementary question.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what estimate his Economic and Statistical Advisory Section has made of the effect of the Government's fiscal policies on the use of manpower in Scotland.

As a result of the advice I receive, I am confident that the fiscal policies being pursued by the Government will be beneficial for the Scottish economy and the use of manpower in Scotland.

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that Government policies will produce in the coming winter a level of unemployment in Scotland involving at least 160,000 people, and that although the efforts of the Economic and Statistical Advisory Section are resulting in our having the best analysed economy in Western Europe, the Government's policies are resulting in our having the worst economy?

I am certainly getting very good service from the new Advisory Section in the Scottish Office. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that we have been having to cope in the last year with a situation which we found on arrival in office.

With double the unemployment?

The advice I am receiving is valuable to us in dealing with this very worrying situation of high unemployment.

If the advice the light hon. Gentleman is receiving is the advice that we are seeing expressed in the results of Government action, it is time he ignored it and got better advice. Is he aware that the present level of unemployment in Scotland represents a loss of 33 million working days to Scottish industry? Does he appreciate that the biggest waste of manpower in Scotland today is for 8,000 shipyard workers on the Clyde who want to work to be told that they may not work? Will he do something to remedy this state of affairs?

I dealt with that point in answer to earlier Questions. The advice I receive relates to what should be done in the future. The hon. Gentleman knows that it takes time for measures which are announced, passed through this House and put into effect to become effective in the country. We are up against the problem of time, and on that point I agree with the hon. Gentleman.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he will next pay a visit to Lanarkshire and Bothwell in particular.

I have plans to visit parts of Lanarkshire, but no immediate one for Bothwell.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that reply, though I am disappointed that he is coming. Is he aware that his visit will give the people of Lanarkshire an opportunity to tell him what they think of him and his Government? They will let him know in no uncertain fashion that they are convinced that we are moving back to the hungry 'thirties. Will he at Cabinet level make a sincere and strong plea on behalf of the people of Scotland so that they will at least have some confidence in the Government's determination to do something for them?

As I said when answering an earlier Question, I saw a deputation a few days ago from the Lanarkshire Development Council. The hon. Gentleman was invited to be present on that occasion, but for some reason he did not attend.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In reply to my supplementary relating to Question No. 26, the Secretary of State for Scotland said that he had met Lanarkshire Development Council. He led the House to believe that I was a member of that Council or a member of the delegation. I want to make it absolutely clear that it was only a delegation from the Development Council that was met by the Secretary of State and that I was not an accredited delegate. I should like the right hon. Gentleman to make that clear to the House.

I understood that the hon. Gentleman, who is a member of the Council, had been invited to the meeting with the Council. But in view of his explanation, I withdraw what I said.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will give the figures for each of the first six months of this year of persons convicted of underage drinking; and if he will give comparative figures for the last three years.

The most recent six-month period for which figures are available is that ending in March, 1971. The number of persons under 18 convicted or found guilty of purchasing or consuming excisable liquor in that period was 436. The figures for comparable periods ending in March, 1968, March, 1969, and March, 1970, were 243, 314 and 346, respectively.

My hon. Friend will appreciate that these are very disturbing figures indeed. Will he have discussions with education authorities with a view to devising a system of discussion groups at which the moral dangers to which young people are exposing themselves may be fully explained?

One is naturally concerned by such figures as I have announced. The Scottish Health Education Unit is engaged in a programme which we hope will influence public attitude to drink, which is, of course, the object of the exercise.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what further plans he has for presenting the attractions of Scotland to industrialists in the Continent of Europe.

Detailed plans for this purpose are being got ready by the Committee under Lord Taylor of Gryffe which has been established by arrangement with the Scottish Council (Development and Industry).

In view of the specially serious employment situation in Scotland and the pressing need for industrial investment, my right hon. Friend has authorised an increase in the grant already provided for carrying out the plans to £70,000 in 1971–72 and to £100,000 in each of the two succeeding years.

Is my hon. Friend aware that this is splendid news? I congratulate him and his right hon. Friend on this welcome new initiative.

I am grateful to to my hon. Friend. This is a very considerable increase in the amount of money available and shows the great importance we attach to advertising outside Scotland the attractions which Scotland holds for industry and investment.

In order to put the matter into perspective, is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Highlands and Islands Development Board itself planned to spend £98,000 on one project of promotion this autumn but that he and his Government have stopped the Board from doing that? Is he aware that the only traffic there will be between Scotland and Europe will be that of the unemployed in search of jobs elsewhere?

I am sorry that, as usual, the hon. Member is so carping when financial help is given to this very important task of advertising Scotland elsewhere. If the hon. Gentleman and some of his hon. Friend's would only be constructive in letting people abroad, outside Scotland, know how much Scotland had to offer, instead of crying it down, then indeed we could look to a much happier future for Scotland.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the latest figure of shortage of personnel in the Scottish Police Forces.

On 30th June last there were 669 vacancies in the regular police force in Scotland, 209 fewer than a year before.

I welcome the increase, but will my hon. Friend take steps to publicise the shortfall in such a way as to bring the police force to full strength in the shortest possible time?

As my hon. Friend knows, we are reviewing police force establishments and hope that this will help, but my hon. Friend must appreciate that one of the greatest difficulties is in Glasgow where many of the vacancies occur. But we hope to help through a co-ordinated recruiting campaign this autumn.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will now order a public inquiry into the proposal to move the Shoeburyness Gun Range to West Freugh.

I am awaiting a fully detailed application for the development.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that since the experimental firing I have received 537 communications, all of which have been against this range, and that over 5,000 people have signed petitions against it? Will he order a public inquiry as soon as he possibly can?

I, too, have received views expressed locally, both in favour of and against this suggestion. The Ministry of Defence has been holding initial consultations with the county council in an attempt to ensure that the proposed development will as far as possible accord with the planning of the area, but as this is a planning matter, or may become one, it would not be right for me to comment on the merits at this stage.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many representations he has received concerning the Corporation of Glasgow's intentions to widen Great Western Road.

Since publishing my decision to confirm the Great Western Road Expressway Compulsory Purchase Order, I have received 84 such representations.

Does not the very large number of representations my right hon. Friend has received—and I have received 73—indicate the great concern felt not only about the future of Great Western Road but about the constitutional propriety of Glasgow's trying to undermine my right hon. Friend's position following a public inquiry? Will he reject this attempt? Indeed, in the light of the decision of the Toronto Town Council to abandon a similar expressway, half built, will he re-examine this costly and damaging scheme which can never be a traffic success because of the bottleneck at Kelvingrove Park?

My hon. Friend will recall that I decided to agree with the recommendation of the reporter who looked into the question. I am now considering the revised proposals which have been submitted by the corporation but I still stick to the decisions which I have made.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications when he expects to make a statement on the future of the National Giro.

I have nothing to add to the answer I gave the hon. Member on 30th June—[Vol. 820, c. 369.]

Is the Minister aware that he has given that same answer at every Question Time this year? Is he still reluctant to give any specific date for the report? Is he further aware that if Giro should close and we go into the Common Market, ours will be the only Post Office in Europe which does not operate a Giro? Furthermore, if the Giro is closed, this will be the only country which has started a Giro and then closed it.

As the hon. Gentleman knows, this operation was set up on a basis which has subsequently incurred great losses, and there are considerable problems involved. We have been looking at the issues very carefully, and I assure him that we shall take no longer over this matter than is necessary.

How many prosecutions for alleged frauds on the Giro are now pending? Is there not now abundant evidence of the most appalling laxity in the operation of the whole system?

I should need notice before being able to give the figure for which my hon. and learned Friend asks.

I must press the Minister a little on this matter, because he has been looking at it for a long time. Does he not realise that the longer the inquiry goes on, the more unviable will the set-up become? Is he not aware that among those people responsible for the running of the Giro there is considerable dissatisfaction about extent of this delay? Can he not hurry things up?

I assure the hon. and learned Gentleman that we shall take no longer over this question than is necessary to get the right answers but, as I say, there are some very complex factors involved.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications, in view of the fact that the Labour Party and the Trades Union Congress, who represent a substantial part of the British electorate, have declared themselves against Great Britain's entry into the European Economic Community in terms which are in his possession, whether he will seek to make available to them the same facilities for circulating their publicity material through Post Offices as that afforded for the Government's Common Market Fact-sheets.