asked the Secretary of State for Employment whether he will set up a working party of accountants, economists and educationists with a view to recommending a standard system for validating training costs for all industrial training boards.

My right hon. Friend would not wish to consider action of this kind before he has completed his review of industrial training.

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that in the absence of central guidance there is a temptation to chief accountants to load all sorts of odd costs on to the industrial training side of their firms? Would not central guidance from the Department tend to make possible a more sensible approach to the problem?

Boards were given advice in 1966 about a common approach to determining training costs. It was a very expert working party that advised them then. Standard systems have their limitations in this context because the requirements of each board vary very much.

Does my hon. Friend accept that there would be one justification for an increase in Government training costs, and that is if he would consider subventing the training of apprentices for their first year so that the young people in the pipeline who cannot get into apprenticeships could be given a first year training with Government financial support?

A great deal is being done by the Government to increase apprentice training. For instance, those whose training is liable to be checked owing to the unemployment situation are being helped by the training boards, in particular the Engineering Industry Training Board, and the Government are paying half the cost.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what plans he has for dealing with the unemployment situation in Derby.

The Government have already taken steps to help Derby: particularly by the assistance given to Rolls-Royce. Derby will also benefit from the various measures we have taken to stimulate investment, output and employment in the country as a whole. The officers of my Department will continue to give every assistance to unemployed people seeking new jobs.

Is the Minister aware that in the past 18 months unemployment in Derby has risen by 75 per cent. that it is most deep-seated among skilled designers, technicians and craftsmen and that there is unlikely to be any improvement in the general situation of deep-seated unemployment in constituencies represented by many of my hon. Friends unless the employment multiplier is got going by special measures in areas of high technology like Derby?

No one would wish to minimise the seriousness of the situation. We do not like to see unemployment anywhere, but in Derby the unemployment figure is 3·6 per cent. which is lower than the national average, and in the circumstances we can look for further improvements.

Is it not disgraceful that the hon. Member for Derby, North (Mr. Whitehead) should be criticising the Government when they have saved many thousands of jobs in Derby by supporting the Rolls-Royce programme? Have not nearly all those who were displaced now found alternative employment?

Yes, Sir. My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Of the 1,787 workers affected by redundancies at Derby earlier this year, only 216 remained to be placed last month.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he is satisfied with the scope and operation of industrial rehabilitation units; if they are working to capacity; and if he will make a statement.

Although my right hon. Friend is generally satisfied with the scope and operation of the units, he is studying ways in which the industrial rehabilitation service might be improved. On 29th November 92 per cent of the 2,377 places at units were occupied. We plan to increase the number of places during the next few years to about 2,750.

In view of the very valuable work done by the units, although I am gratified to hear of the proposed expansion, does my hon. Friend believe that it is sufficient to meet the need? Is it proposed that another unit should be established rather nearer my constituency of Wycombe than Garston Manor?

I am grateful for my hon. Friend's recognition of the valuable work of the units. An expansion programme was begun back in 1969. New units have been built at Plymouth, Hanley and Dundee since the beginning of last year and new units will be built at Birmingham, Portsmouth, Preston and East London by the end of 1974–75. I do not know how that works out in relation to my hon. Friend's constituency, but that is the pattern.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment when the official report on the future of the employment services will be published.

My right hon. Friend expects to publish the report on 14th December.

Would my hon. Friend say what is the status of the report? Is it a consultative document? Will he also be prepared, if the report suggests it, to take radical steps to change these services which still have the same structure that they had 50 or 60 years ago?

The report is not entitled a consultative document, but certainly the proposals in it will be open to discussion. As to the nature of the proposals, I think all hon. Members are agreed that the time for radical change has come and I do not think that the hon. Gentleman will find the document unworthy of the occasion.

May I first express our regret that the Secretary of State is suffering from strain as a result of his accident and also express the hope that he will soon he fully recovered?

First, may I thank the right hon. Lady for her kind message to my right hon. Friend which I shall, of course, convey to him. With regard to the second part of her congratulations, I think the right hon. Lady will find when she sees the document that the work done by herself and her team when she was in office does not go unacknowledged. Certainly we have taken full account of the consultative document of 1970 and all the consultations that went with it. As to the timing of the document, this was quite deliberate. As has been said several times in the House, when we got into power we decided to have a total review of all manpower problems. As soon as one does that, with training and the rest, it becomes a much bigger task. We believe that we have done the right thing.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will list the methods used by his Department to assess the level of unemployment.

Monthly counts are made of persons who register as unemployed at all employment exchanges and youth employment service careers offices. These figures are analysed under various categories and after excluding school leavers and temporarily stopped are adjusted for seasonal factors. The seasonally adjusted figure for wholly unemployed is the best guide to the underlying trend of unemployment.

Is the Minister satisfied with these methods? Is it not a fact that the unemployment figures come as a tremendous shock to him every month? Cannot he assess them better in the future? Is he ready for next week's figures or will these again come as a tremendous surprise?

I do not see the point of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question. All Governments have, as a matter of policy, not put out forecasts. One reason is that they are not competent to do so under present techniques; and secondly, unreliable information is worrying to the people concerned.

Looking at the other side of the coin—that is, jobs vacant—is it not likely that my hon. Friend's Department underestimates the number of jobs vacant because firms do not place with the Department the actual number of vacancies they might have?

Exactly what proportion of the vacancies are reported to our Department is the gap in our information. I think everyone would agree that in times of high unemployment fewer vacancies are reported for the simple reason that employers know that they can get their recruits without using the employment services.

Will the Minister indicate whether by the definition of "wholly unemployed" he means the numbers out of work for more than eight weeks? If he accepts this as one of the tests in determining levels of unemployment, would he consider having another analysis on the basis of those who have been out of work for more than half a year, because this kind of unemployment is creating quite a problem in the development areas?

Figures of that sort are given in the Gazette each month. I shall check to see whether the exact figures the hon. Gentleman is talking about are there and I will think about them.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what are the latest unemployment figures nationally and by regions.

At 8th November 926,095 people were registered as unemployed in Great Britain, including 74,855 who were temporarily stopped. I will, with permission, circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT the corresponding figures for regions.

Is the Minister aware that those figures represent only about three-quarters of the story? There are literally thousands of unregistered workers who should be added to the figures he has given. Will the hon. Gentleman give a guarantee, similar to the one given by his hon. Friend in winding up the debate on Tuesday night, that the official unemployment figures for June, 1970, will not be doubled during the lifetime of this Parliament?

In reply to the first point, no one for a moment denies that the figures are very high and very serious. Enormous programmes and enormous efforts have been brought forward to reduce them. In reply to the second point, it is not the policy of the present Government to make predictions any more than it was the policy of the Labour Government to do so.

Does my hon. Friend agree that the problem is particularly serious in Scotland? When does he expect the reflationary and capital expenditure measures announced by the Government to have an impact on the Scottish unemployment figures?

I am aware of the particular seriousness of the situation in Scotland. A major reflationary programme is already in the pipeline and Scotland will share substantially in the benefits from the enormous tax concessions and extra expenditure amounting to £660 million.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, notwithstanding the extreme seriousness of the problem in development areas such as Scotland, in intermediate areas such as South Yorkshire the employment rate is far in excess of the average in the development areas? In the South Yorkshire area the average is between 6 and 7 per cent. Is it not clear that the Government's policy of cutting public expenditure and withdrawing investment grants has been disastrous and that 1 million families are likely to be confronted with a very bleak Christmas? Will not the Government accelerate what they are seeking to do, which is too little and too late, and try to relieve some of the misery, poverty and hardship they are causing?

The hon. Gentleman's feelings are thoroughly understandable but his diagnosis is wrong. If one sets out, as the Labour Government did, on a major shake-out in the mid-1960s, and if that is followed by enormous wage inflation, the end effect is considerable unemployment. That is what has happened and that is what we have to cure.

Will my hon. Friend insert in the OFFICIAL REPORT a list of the projects which have been undertaken as a result of the increased capital expenditure so rightly announced by the Government? My hon. Friend is continually referring, quite rightly, to what is being done but it would be much more helpful to everyone to know in detail what the projects are and where they are situated.

If my hon. Friend likes to put down a Question, I will seek to answer her request.

I have asked dozens of times. I am tired of asking.

May I draw the hon. Gentleman's attention to the serious position in the West Midlands where practically every week—for example, in Wolverhampton—firms are closing down, thus creating redundancies? Is he further aware that men in their forties come to see me in my "surgery" because they have become redundant and have no chance of getting work in the West Midlands? Is not this a disgraceful comment on the Conservative Government's inability properly to run the economy? What is the hon. Gentleman doing to put the situation right?

I acknowledge the seriousness of the situation referred to by the hon. Lady, but I repeat that major programmes have been brought forward, major investment has been accelerated and, as newspaper reports today show, there are distinct signs of improvement in the fixed investment picture and this will produce jobs in the area.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what is the total number of redundancies notified to his Department in the Northern Region for the 12-month period ended October, 1971; what is the average per month; and what was the average number of vacancies per month notified.

During the 12-month period ended 31st October, 1971, redundancies involving 24,220 workpeople in the Northern Region were notified to my Department, the average number per month being 2,020. Over the same period the average monthly number of notified vacancies in the Northern Region was 10,138.

Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that these are fairly disastrous figures, particularly if he accepts that in the Northern Region we are no longer suffering from a dramatic rundown of mining jobs? These are notified redundancies from modern industries, many of which have come into the region in the last 10 years. Will not the hon. Gentleman accept that if we have a net result in the last 12 months, as I understand it, of 78,500 unemployed, with only 5,000 jobs available, this is a terrible situation? Will he not speak to his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry to see whether something special can be done, even if it means helping existing industry in the region to enlarge itself with the sort of facilities which are provided for incoming industry?

My hon. Friend may know that the Mayor of Sunderland has been in contact with my Department and with several Cabinet Ministers concerning the situation there and has had replies from all of us. I agree, however, that the situation is a worrying one. Unemployment in the Wearside area happens to have gone down slightly in the last two months but, nevertheless, the figures are very worrying. From an examination of the type and spread of industry in the area, however, I would hope that the measures we have brought forward for increasing capital expenditure—in other words, the £100 million to the nationalised industries for bringing forward their capital work and the £150 million on infrastructure—would help the hon. Gentleman's area.

With regard to the last part of that answer, would not my hon. Friend now consider advocating the compulsory registration of vacancies?

That has been considered and thought about by successive Governments but I think it would be almost impossible to enforce. I hope, however, that the improvement we expect in the employment services will in itself encourage employers to register their vacancies because it will be worth while their doing so.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the redundancies are continuing at a very high level in the whole of the area? Will he not take some further action, above all, to provide new work at the site, for example, in Washington which is being vacated by a Government Department?

I know about these problems. I hope to be in Newcastle on Wednesday and, no doubt, will hear more about them. All I can say once again is that though we believe the measures we have taken may not cure the situation straight away, there has been evidence since our last debate on unemployment—from the Financial Times survey, today's evidence from the Quarterly Review of the Bank of England and the National Institute—that reflation is beginning to have its effect, and one hopes that this will come through as quickly as possible.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment whether, pending the introduction of comprehensive regulations for the storage of highly flammable liquids in factories, he will lay before the House a regulation requiring highly flammable liquids stored in factories to be contained in suitable closed vessels kept in a storeroom, which either is in a safe position or is a fire-resisting structure.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will now publish the report of the public inquiry into the storage of highly flammable liquids, set up in accordance with Schedule 4 to the Factories Act, 1961, which sat on 2nd and 3rd February, 22nd, 23rd and 24th March and 5th April.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment when he expects to receive the report of the public inquiry which sat on certain dates in February, March and April, 1971, to hear objections to the draft Statutory Instrument entitled the Highly Inflammable Liquids Regulations, 1969.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will draft regulations under Section 176 of the Factories Act relating to the storage and use of inflammable materials.

My right hon. Friend expects to receive the commissioner's report on the public inquiry later this month and he will then arrange for its publication. My right hon. Friend does not intend to lay before the House any regulations covering the storage and use of highly flammable materials in factories until he has had the opportunity of studying this report.

Will the Minister confirm that there is no statutory protection whatever for workers in factories using inflammable liquids other than those who use cellulose fluids? Does he agree that there is a need for comprehensive regulations to protect those who work with such liquids from disfigurement and death? Can he give the House any reason whatever why he should not lay before the House a regulation at least providing protection from dangerous conditions of storage pending the introduction of the more comprehensive regulations required?

The position is as the hon. Member states, with the exception for cellulose solutions. The reason for which he asks is simply that the inquiry is taking place, it has attracted considerable comment on a wide range of matters and there are a great many detailed considerations to take into account. It would be a bad way of proceeding to make partial regulations in advance of dealing with the subject as a whole when the inquiry is complete.

This is unbelievable complacency. The commissioner—

Order. The hon. Member must ask a question.

I am asking a question, Mr. Speaker. I am making the point—[HON. MEMBERS: "Question."] I will phrase the question. Would the hon. Gentleman agree that it is absolutely unbelievable complacency for the commissioner to be coming along at the end of this month with the outcome of the inquiry, held so many months ago, when we have no knowledge of how long it will take the Government to implement the commissioner's recommendations? What is the Minister prepared to do about it? Will he send a signal to his colleagues in the Department of the Environment to make sure that they change their regulations on this problem with regard to spillage and so on in line with the report? Will he accept that injuries are taking place daily in factories and that this will be on his head unless he gets a move on with this legislation?

I do not agree with the hon. Member's first point. I think he is getting the matter slightly out of focus. These are serious and important issues, as he is the first to realise, and a public inquiry must go into every detail. When the report comes to the Secretary of State, as it will in a few weeks, it must be looked at carefully. To rush into these matters without a careful inquiry and assessment might do more harm than good, and I cannot believe that the hon. Member wants that.

That is all very well, but can the Minister outline for us the nature of the objections raised to the original draft regulations and say by whom they were raised and why it has taken so long? Why has it been necessary to go into such time-consuming detail before the regulations can be produced?

These matters will emerge when the report is published, after it has been to the Secretary of State. These are complicated matters and such inquiries usually take months rather than weeks, if I may use the phrase. There are very important issues which have to be dealt with.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what advice he has received from the National Youth Employment Council on the reorganisation of the Careers Advisory Service; and if he will make a statement.

The majority of the council has advised that the running of the Youth Employment Service should be mandatory for local education authorities and that the service should be made available to all those under 18 and all those in full-time education up to first degree level. I said in answer to an earlier Question that my right hon. Friend expects to announce his plans for the future of the employment service on 14th December. This will include a statement on the Youth Employment Service.

Does my hon. Friend recognise the important rôle of the careers officer in advising young people at school and college? Is he aware that many will welcome his promise of a statement to remove the uncertainty over the future structure of this important service?

I recognise the work which my hon. Friend did in this area in the days when he was with the Inner London Education Authority. There has been a long-standing division of views on this and I am hoping that the review will succeed in solving the problem.

Can we take it that the hon. Gentleman will be making a statement to the House?

That is the form in which it will come.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what he intends to do to assist the 350 workers who will become redundant at Ranco Motors Limited, Tannochside, Glasgow, to find alternative jobs.

All the resources of my Department including a "job team", special canvassing for vacancies and opportunities for training will be made available, as appropriate, to help those becoming redundant to obtain alternative employment.

May I thank the hon. Gentleman for that reply and may I also thank his local office, which is doing everything humanly possible? Is he aware that there has been a further closure in my constituency and that 130 jobs will fall by the wayside? Is he further aware that there is serious contraction in the North Lanarkshire steel industry? On that basis, can he tell us whether he is having consultations with the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry to bring jobs to this part of the world where they are so urgently needed?

I was not aware of this second firm which the hon. Gentleman mentioned, and I will certainly go into the particulars. With regard to the firm about which he asks, Ranco Motors Ltd., I understand that it manufactures small motors. I hope that the increase in the production of consumer durables, in which such motors would be used, will have a beneficial effect. It is to be hoped that the firm will also benefit from the cut in hire-purchase restrictions and purchase tax. As for demand in the steel industry in general, the extra expenditure that has been announced over the last few weeks will help the industry because steel is used for most public works undertakings.

In view of the widespread nature of the problem of large-scale redundancies, by no means confined to Glasgow, and the growing Press speculation about the Government's programme to emasculate Redundancy Payments Act, will the hon. Gentleman either give an unequivocal undertaking today that he has no intention of interfering with the operation of that Act or come clean about it and tell the House, with an immediate statement, what proposals he has in mind?

I am tempted to satisfy the hon. Gentleman's question, but I am afraid that until our report comes out I cannot do so.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment how many people were employed in the boot and shoe industry in Norwich in 1960; and how many are currently employed in the same industry.

The estimated numbers of employees in employment in the footwear industry in the Norwich, Acle, Loddon and Wroxham Employment Exchange areas at June, 1960, and June, 1970, the latest date for which figures are available, were 9,100 and 5,800, respectively.

Would my hon. Friend agree that these disturbing figures show a marked decrease? To safeguard the employment situation in the area, particularly in the footwear trade, will he make every possible representation to his right hon. Friends so that the industry may stand up as well as it can to the three hazards facing it—the problems occasioned by the introduction of V.A.T., by the importation of shoes from underdeveloped countries and by the present difficulties of origin marking?

My hon. Friend knows that these are not immediately matters for me, but I will undertake to draw the attention of my right hon. Friends to such matters. We are in touch particularly with the Department of Trade and Industry on the question of employment in the Norwich area. The reduction in employment in the footwear industry in Norwich has largely been achieved by normal wastage rather than by making workers redundant, I am glad to say.

Does not the hon. Gentleman realise that it is the policy of the Government which is booting people out of industry and that it is the policy of abolition of investment grants which is "shooing" other industries away from these areas which need and could have the industry?

I do not accept that. If the hon. Gentleman talks to industrialists he will find that wage and cost inflation have accelerated the shake-out which has been going on and that we are still seeing the effects of the original vicious wage inflation that we had during the period of the last Administration.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment how many men between 60 and 65 years of age were unemployed at the latest date for which figures are available; and what percentage of the insured male population in that age group they represented.

At July, 1971, the number of registered wholly unemployed men aged 60 to 64 years in Great Britain was 105,167. Expressed as a proportion of all male employees in this age group, the figure was 8·9 per cent.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the male unemployment rate he has given in this age group is very much higher than was the case for all the other age groups in July? Is he aware that a large number of these people are in development areas and that their chances of ever getting full-time employment before they reach retirement age are extremely slim? Does he not think that it is time seriously to consider the lowering of the age of retirement from 65 to 60 in development areas—not the whole of the country. Would he also reconsider the regulations which debar seasonal workers from getting unemployment pay after more than three years of seasonal working?

I certainly share the hon. Member's assessment of the seriousness of the problem. It is a very serious and, for many people, tragic problem. I know it is of small comfort to those involved, but the proportion which this represents of total unemployment has not changed very much over the years. Nevertheless it is a serious problem. My Department spends a lot of time urging firms not to discharge older workers. We have a scheme for helping those who are over 45 in the intermediate and development areas. As for the hon. Gentleman's other ideas, I will consider them but at first glance I am not sure that they would help the problem very much.

What is the Department doing to encourage the employment of older workers?

As I have said, there is a direct policy of encouragement to firms through our local branches and through all our efforts in the various employment areas. At the same time we have a direct scheme in the intermediate and development areas for encouraging employers to train and keep on workers who are over 45.

Will the hon. Gentleman tell the House how this scheme is working? Hon. Members who come from development areas have seen no evidence that such a scheme is in operation or is working. Will the hon. Gentleman explain this and say what the Government intend to do in the future? In view of the growing unemployment, will the hon. Gentleman also explain how, on television last night, the Prime Minister could say that he was proud of what has been done in the last 18 months?

On the serious point—as opposed to the polemic one—on the actual life of people in the hon. Gentleman's constituency, the answer is that the training scheme is getting under way. It is an innovation by this Government and, of course, it takes time to get going. We are watching it very closely and, if it needs supplementing and developing, we shall develop it. As to the hon. Gentleman's broader points, I cannot see that they are worthy of a serious answer.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will make a statement on the effect of measures announced on 23rd November, 1971, on the level of employment in the construction industry in Scotland.

The measures we announced on 23rd November are only part of the considerable stimulus we have given to the national economy and to the development areas in particular. The various measures we have taken should provide an appreciable and growing number of jobs for Scottish construction workers.

I do not think that the efforts of the Government have been so satisfactory. Will the hon. Gentleman examine the statement made by the Prime Minister in Glasgow, where the regulations are so tight that the £1 million to assist amenities is as yet unused?

I will certainly examine the statement and its consequences. I must point out what has been done in Scotland for the construction industry. There have been increased housing improvement grants; special help on the Stonehouse project; £60 million public infrastructure—that is 37 per cent of all spending in the country on the infrastructure; £17 million on various environmental and improvement projects; and the work of the Scottish Housing Association. This all adds up to the most tremendous boost.

Will my hon. Friend expand on the figures he has given for the building industry? Are there not local shortages of building workers which hinder some of the development schemes of the Government?

This is so. I have not firsthand knowledge of Scotland on this, but when I go to Newcastle on Wednesday this is one problem which I have to look at. I have discovered that there are shortages of craftsmen, and we hope to be able to help in training, and so on. As my hon. Friend says, this shortage is holding up building.

Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that, as the C.B.I. has said, many measures which have been introduced are of a temporary nature and will not solve the unemployment in Scotland? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in the steel construction industry, of which I am a member, there is serious redundancy? If the Government were desirous of doing so, they could introduce public works to give employment to these workers and to ancillary workers.

This is not merely a question of the figures produced and the amount available. The push that is going from the central Government to the local authorities, pressing them to get on with this work, is very considerable. We are doing all we can.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will make a statement on his Department's estimates of the effect of measures announced on 23rd November, 1971, on the level of employment in the Scottish mining industry.

The bulk of the investment which the National Coal Board is bringing forward is in assisted areas but it is too early to say at all precisely what effects this will have in Scotland.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the National Coal Board's share of the capital works expenditure will have little or no effect in providing mining jobs in Scotland? If he is anxious to safeguard existing mining jobs, will he ask the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry to restore the ban on the importation of expensive foreign coal?

In general, redundancies in mining are due not so much to lack of demand for coal but to the closure of high-cost pits.

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that there is a considerable shortage of coking coal? Should not he and his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry enter into discussions with the National Coal Board on the exploitation of the considerable reserves of coking coal in Scotland?

I will certainly bring the hon. Gentleman's question to the attention of my right hon. Friend.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he is satisfied with the progress made by the official publicity so far available on the Industrial Relations Act; and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. Two of the three booklets about the Act, published by my Department, have already been reprinted to meet demand and the first in our series of educational films has so far sold 142 copies and been hired over 600 times.

Does my hon. Friend feel there are enough of these booklets available when required to counteract some of the misapprehensions which appear to exist in some quarters about this very good Act?

I am glad to say that the barrage of lies we had to suffer from hon. Members opposite during the passage of the Bill seems to have created a great thirst for knowledge. So far we have distributed 900,000 copies of the guide to the Act and a million copies of the short guide and the film has had the biggest sale of any film ever produced by the Central Office of Information.

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that the reason for the fairly reasonable sale of these booklets is that the employers are trying to find the truth, and are happy to do so, because of the barrage of lies from the Conservative benches on the Bill? Would he not be much happier if he were to distribute the T.U.C.'s document on good industrial relations which, in the view of this side of the House, is a much better document and much more helpful to good industrial relations than any Government material issued on the Bill?

It is a healthy sign that we should all study any information of this sort that is available and I hope the trade unions have as great success in distributing their document as we have had in distributing ours.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what are the latest unemployment figures for Birmingham.

At 8th November the number of people registered as unemployed in the Birmingham travel-to-work area was 39,522, including 12,109 who were temporarily stopped.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that those figures relating to Britain's premier industrial city are disgraceful? What policies have the Government at present to deal with the situation? Furthermore, what other proposals have they to deal with the figures for November, which probably will be an increase on those for October?

I cannot say what the figures will be for November because they will not be published for another week but as a West Midlands Member with many constituents working in Birmingham I am confident that the steps the Government have already taken will create a general upturn in demand in Birmingham and will put Birmingham back on the right employment road. Its problems are not nearly as difficult as those in Scotland and the North-East and I am sure that the situation will come right.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what are the Government's plans for the future of the National Institute for Housecraft.

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what proposals the Government have for future support of the National Institute for Housecraft.

The institute has done very valuable work both in the setting of recognised national standards and in training for domestic employment but, in the light particularly of alternative facilities developed to both these ends over recent years, the progress of which my right hon. Friend will continue to watch, he has decided that the annual grant my Department makes to the institute can no longer be justified and the institute has informed him that it will, in consequence, have to close down.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this further petty little economy by the Conservative Government to finance tax reliefs for the well-to-do will be treated on this side of the House with the contempt it deserves? Is he further aware that the purposes for which the late Ernest Bevin created this institute 25 years ago are as urgent as ever—namely, reflecting the need to get recognition of domestic employment as a worthwhile job and career and requiring proper training skills and adequate rewards for those who reach the recognised standards of proficiency? What do the Government intend to do to ensure that this important work is continued? In particular what steps is the hon. Gentleman taking to establish a national standard of skill and examination to replace the diploma which was issued by the institute?

It is precisely because the situation has changed since the days of Ernest Bevin that this change is being made. My right hon. Friend has taken a very close personal interest in this matter and has studied it very carefully. He has concluded that local education authorities and the major employers of domestic workers, such as hospitals and hotels, have developed facilities which to a large extent have replaced those which are offered by the institute.

May I ask for a reply to my last specific point, namely, what steps are being taken to establish a national standard of skill in examination to replace the diploma?

The diploma is being retained and, as the right hon. Lady will know, examinations are already taken by trainees who do not attend the institute. The diploma will remain.

If the Government grant is to be withdrawn, how does the hon. Gentleman expect diploma courses to continue without Government support? Furthermore, what discussions has he had with his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science to see that an adequate substitute is provided in colleges? Could he say what alternative will be accepted by the hotel industry and, for example, student hostels, old people's homes and other establishments of that kind which in the past have relied on the institute's diploma?

To answer the last part of the hon. Lady's question first, my right hon. Friend has consulted the following parties: the Chairman of the Catering Industrial Training Board, the Chairman of the Local Government Industrial Training Board, the Department of Health, and so on. Although they all have great good will for the institute, they have reached the same conclusion as has my right hon. Friend, namely that the duties and achievements of these centres in the past have now been taken over by other institutions. Perhaps I may give the figures. [HON. MEMBERS: "Too long."] Last year some 203 people took the housecraft diploma whereas 6,250 candidates took courses of similar type in other institutions, so the size of the task has got out of all proportion.

Is my hon. Friend aware how much this decision is regretted by those of us, such as my noble Friend Viscountess Davidson and myself, who were in at the beginning of the establishment of this institute? [HON. MEMBERS: "Keep it short."] Will he give an assurance that everything possible will be done to see that staff made redundant will get good jobs in the future? Will he also pay great tribute to those who were connected with the concept of the institute? We accept the decision with very great regret.

On behalf of my right hon. Friend, perhaps I might pay tribute to all those who created the institute and their work in it over the years, not least my hon. Friend the Member for Tynemouth (Dame Irene Ward). I am sure that my hon. Friend will agree that my right hon. Friend has given great consideration to this matter. I assure her that my right hon. Friend greatly disliked taking this action. He did so on its merits.