asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will seek powers to control the salary structure of rural district councils, and if he will make a statement.

No, Sir. I believe that local government should continue to make its own arrangements to ensure that individual authorities adopt an appropriate salary structure.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman tell the House how many local authorities in Wales pay their officials salaries above the recommended maximum scales and, if there is a significant number, how meaningful does he believe the scales to be? Secondly, does he consider that the functions of officers in development areas where much industrial development has taken place merit differential awards?

I could not without notice give the hon. Gentleman the figure for which he asked in the first part of his question. As he knows, under the 1933 Act local authorities are empowered to pay reasonable remuneration to officers. In 1948 a Local Authorities (Conditions of Service) Advisory Board was set up to co-ordinate matters. The question of the legality of salary increases is always one for the district auditor.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether, in considering representations submitted to him against planning decisions taken by local planning authorities, he will take into account the extent to which individuals likely to be affected by those decisions have been consulted.

Yes, Sir. However, my right hon. and learned Friend intervenes in decisions lawfully taken by local planning authorities only in exceptional circumstances.

Is my hon. Friend aware that if he were to reject a planning application sent to him on appeal purely on the grounds that there had been insufficient consultation with the individuals directly concerned he would do more to encourage the practice of consulting individuals than could be done by any other method?

That may be. If my hon. Friend would care to write to me about any specific matter I should be happy to consider it. I think that he is referring to the case he mentioned in the Adjournment debate on Thursday evening. I will look at that.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that if local authorities would consult people whose lives will be affected by decisions but who do not know about planning applications even when they may be for properties next door to them, it would help a great deal to produce a better spirit?

We are all in favour of as many people as possible knowing about planning permissions. As the right hon. Gentleman will have read from the Adjournment debate on Thursday evening, I went very fully into the whole subject.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many representations he has had from local authorities in Wales concerning the need for a more uniform system of concessionary fares for retirement pensioners.

Six local authorities have written to me. These concessions are a matter of local discretion as my right hon. Friend the Minister for Transport Industries explained in reply to the hon. Member for Eccles (Mr. Carter-Jones) on 14th February.—[Vol. 831, c. 34.]

Will the Secretary of State convey to his colleagues in this unwanted Government, sustained by Liberal votes, the feeling of many people at this disgraceful refusal to bring forward a uniform system of concessions for old-age pensioners' road and rail fares? Will he urge upon the Government the need to understand this situation since they completely failed to understand the miners? This is an urgent necessity.

Concessionary fares are a matter for local experience and discretion. If there is a demand for uniformity it is open to local authorities to co-operate in achieving it.

I fully accept my hon. Friend's plea for uniformity, but can the Secretary of State tell us what encouragement he has personally given to Welsh local authorities in this matter?

The local authorities know full well that this is entirely a matter for their discretion. Many local authorities in Wales have exercised that discretion.

Is not the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that there is considerable perturbation about the unevenness of services in general in Wales and about this in particular? If I may broaden the argument, will he—

Order. The hon. Gentleman was unwise to give me notice. He may not broaden the argument.

Perhaps I can rephrase the question, Mr. Speaker. Is the Secretary of State of the opinion that it should be mandatory on local authorities to effect a common system throughout the country? Is he aware that many local authorities are thinking of asking that the cost of such a service should be met from central Government funds?

I know that certain local authorities, and in particular the Folkestone Borough Council, have suggested that the cost should be met from central funds. However, present policies place the emphasis, in my view quite rightly, on local authority experience and discretion.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will insist on the implementation of undertakings given at public inquiries regarding the control of noise level in public buildings as a result of new road works; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make it a condition of his approval of schemes for widening or diverting roads about which he holds public inquiries, that undertakings that the volume of noise in public buildings will be reduced are kept by those making them.

Undertakings given at public inquiries held under the provisions of the Town and Country Planning Acts are not legally enforceable unless they are embodied in the conditions of planning consent. But I would always expect public authorities and others to abide by undertakings given at such inquiries.

I am grateful to the right hon. and learned Gentleman for his reply. Will he take it from me that my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Mr. Ellis) and myself are particularly concerned about the manner in which public inquiries are conducted, both within the Principality and outside it? If specific undertakings are given to laymen at inquiries by legal experts and technical experts to keep down the volume of noise resulting from the works, will the right hon. and learned Gentleman use all the powers he possesses to ensure that they carry out their promises?

Yes, certainly. My Department will do all that it can to ensure that undertakings given at an inquiry are carried out. However, they are legally enforceable only if they are made conditions of planning consent With regard to the matter with which I think the hon. Gentleman and the hon. Member for Wrexham (Mr. Ellis) are concerned—the Wrexham ring road—they will know that no condition was attached to the consent other than that the work should start before 31st December, 1975. I understand, however, that discussions are proceeding which will have the effect of ensuring that the undertaking which was given is fulfilled.

Is the Secretary of State aware that in several cases in which planning permission has been given the conditions about what should happen subsequent to the work having been done have not been carried out? Does he not think that there must be something sadly awry when this happens on an increasing scale?

As I have said, I hope that when undertakings are given at a public inquiry they will be carried out, even though they may not be legally enforceable.

rose—

With some reluctance, I ask the House to pass on from the topic of noise levels in public buildings.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what plans he has to deal with the shortage of doctors in the hospital service in Wales.

Welsh hospital authorities endeavour to fill vacancies by repeated advertisements and by offering part-time employment in hospitals to general practitioners and other doctors. An increase in the number of places in medical schools in Great Britain from 3,000 in 1971–72 to 4,100 by the late 1970s is planned, including a further expansion of the Welsh National School of Medicine.

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that information. Is he aware that the hospital service in Wales would break down immediately were it not for the fact that about 500 doctors—approximately one-third of the total medical staff—are from overseas, which sustains the service? Is he further aware that there are vacancies for 90 doctors in Welsh hospitals? As there were 10 times more students applying for places in the Cardiff Medical School than were placed last year, will the hon. Gentleman and the Secretary of State press with vigour for the implementation of the recommendation of the Royal Commission for an additional medical school in Wales to be sited at Swansea?

Having visited over 34 hospitals in Wales in the last two years, I very much agree with what the hon. Gentleman said about the contribution which overseas doctors are making to the National Health Service. I know about the hon. Gentleman's particular interest in the difficult question of the suggested Swansea Medical School. As he knows, this is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science—

And the Welsh Office.

Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman would like to ask a supplementary question later. We have been in contact with the Department of Education and Science about this matter.

Does the hon. Gentleman realise that as a result of an answer given a little while ago to the hon. Member for Poplar (Mr. Mikardo) there is widespread feeling in South Wales that the question of siting an additional medical school at Swansea has been further deferred? As the Minister responsible for the National Health Service in Wales, will the hon. Gentleman give an assurance that there has been no slippage in the plan?

I cannot add to the answer given by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science to the hon. Member for Poplar (Mr. Mikardo) on 31st January on decisions about further medical school places. This matter must await a study of the need for more doctors in the country as a whole.

If my hon. Friend is to discuss this matter with the Secretary of State for Education and Science, will he take account of the fact that the proposition that there should be a medical school in Swansea has all-party support among Welsh Members and, I believe, support in the whole of Wales.

Yes. However, I draw my hon. Friend's attention to the fact that the intake of the Welsh National School of Medicine increased from 70 to 105 in 1969 and is to be further increased from 105 to 150 in the near future.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will make a statement on his examination of the effect on the future of Wales of Great Britain's membership of the European Economic Community if the present member nations of the European Economic Community reach agreement on future economic and monetary union projects.

Participation by Her Majesty's Government in the progressive development of these policies in the Community will take account of all relevant considerations, including those relating to Wales.

First, is the Secretary of State aware that Welsh prospects will be severely injured if Britain becomes a member State of the European Economic Community and aligns herself with the Community's economic and social policies? Reports emanating from the Continent indicate that the E.E.C. partners differ over this question. Secondly, does he consider it right that, as will happen, we should delegate decisions for solving industrial disputes to an inter-governmental committee of the E.E.C.? Lastly, will the right hon. and learned Gentleman consider the effect of the importation into all these considerations of the fact that there are over 2 million unemployed in the Community? How will this matter affect Wales which has languished under Conservative rule with 56,000 unemployed, the highest figure for 25 years?

The hon. Gentleman's Question refers to the matter of

"agreement on future economic and monetary union projects".

Without paying regard to the problem referred to by the hon. Member for Swansea, East (Mr. McBride), may I ask my right hon. and learned Friend whether he will confirm that if the member States of the European Economic Community are able to agree on an expanded regional programme it will be of very considerable assistance to development projects in Wales?

I certainly agree with that.

If the E.E.C. countries agree, it will be the first time that they have agreed on any regional policy—

Order. Is the right hon. Gentleman asking a question?

Yes, Mr. Speaker—with your co-operation. Is the Secretary of State aware that 29 out of the 36 Welsh Members of Parliament registered an opinion last week against Britain going into the Common Market?

How many believed it?

Order.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Is the Secretary of State aware that the best thing he could do for Wales would be to continue the former regional policy which brought over 200 new factories to the Principality?

I am aware that many right hon. and hon. Welsh Members voted in favour—

Many?

Yes—of Britain's entry to the Common Market when the right hon. Gentleman's party was in office.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what estimate he has made of the surplus expected in the combined housing revenue accounts of all the local authorities in Wales in 1976.

Since this would be dependent on a number of as yet undetermined factors, no reliable estimate can be given. But if any such surplus does occur in 1976, I would not expect it to be significant.

Is the Minister aware that the Housing Finance Bill anticipates such a surplus in that it makes provision about what is to happen to such a surplus? How does he justify handing over the use of this surplus to the Department of the Environment? Will he explain why it is that the better-off tenants of local authorities will be expected to help the poorer tenants in private houses and local authority houses rather than the load be spread over the community as a whole?

I am sorry to say to the hon. Gentleman that I do not think he can have read the Bill. In answer to his question I would say that the undetermined factors to which I have referred include the level of fair rents, qualification for subsidy, the future house-building programme, and decisions by individual authorities on the future treatment of working balances.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what use he has made of his oversight powers for the purpose of securing a new tenant for the Government-built factory at Penygroes, Caernarvonshire.

The Department of Trade and Industry is making every possible effort to secure a new tenant. These efforts have my full support.

Would the right hon. and learned Gentleman enlarge a little on the strong efforts he is making to secure a new tenant for this factory? It would seem that very little has been done. Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the unemployment figure for the Caernarvonshire area has increased to 10 per cent., or 11 per cent. of the insured population, and that this district, which is supposed to be served by this factory, is particularly hard hit? Would he and his Department show a little more energy in pressing the claims of this factory and this district for employment?

Yes, I am fully aware of the unemployment figures. I am fully aware of the problems of the Nantlle Valley and the fact that Penygroes was dependent very much on this factory, which was built in 1959, and the tenant of which went out of production in 1969. I am fully aware of the difficulties there are in attracting suitable tenants for this factory. The position is that nearly £20,000 is being spent by the Department of Trade and Industry on repairing and modernising this factory, and this work should be completed next month, when this factory should be a very attractive factory to a suitable tenant.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales when he expects the final completion of the new hospital at Gurmos.

The anticipated completion date for the current phase, which will provide 340 beds, is July, 1975.

Without commenting upon the undesirability of the site at Gurmos, would the hon. Gentleman give an assurance that he will do everything he possibly can to retain the two existing hospitals in the Gynon Valley which serve valley areas which are difficult distances from Gurmos itself?

I am certainly aware of the excellent work done by those hospitals and of the high regard in which they are held. Their future functions will be considered in relation to the needs of the area as a whole.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what correspondence he has received from the Institute of Careers Officers in Wales about employment prospects for young workers.

None since last September, when I had the pleasure of opening their annual conference at Swansea.

Would the right hon. and learned Gentleman, like a lot of other people in Wales concerned about the employment prospects for young people, give attention to the comments made by the Institute of Careers Officers in the Document "People in Jobs" and take note of the great alarm and concern expressed in it that authority for the direction of new job places for youngsters should be wrested from the counties and put in the hands of the Secretary of State for Employment?

Yes. These are very important questions, and, as the hon. Gentleman knows, discussions are at the moment going on with the local authorities and those interested in youth employment on this very matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what facilities are available to his Department to estimate the number of prospective job opportunities in Wales.

This is done by the Welsh Planning Board which is chaired by one of my officials and on which all departments in Wales concerned with employment are represented.

Does the Secretary of State appreciate that his continued failure to give a reasonable amount of information concerning job opportunities is proving very frustrating for Welsh Members in seeking to analyse the value of certain Government policies? Is he saying that such studies are not made? Or is it that he has not the candour to tell the House exactly what the evaluations are?

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I give the House such information as is available to me. I am satisfied that the information available to me, both from my own Department and from the other Departments concerned, enables me to have regard to up-to-date assessments of the current employment situation and future prospects, and, whenever I am asked, I give hon. Members and the House the information I have.

Will the Secretary of State bear in mind that if the present rate of decline of jobs in prospect continues the Department will not need a computer but merely the facility of the fingers of two hands to count the jobs in prospect? How does he explain the fact that in 1971, the first full year of the new Conservative Government, new industry coming to Wales was merely 40 per cent. of that in 1969, the last full year of the Labour Government?

The low figure for jobs in prospect during that time has reflected the unwillingness of industrialists, by reason of what had happened in the previous two or three years, to commit themselves to long-term investment. This is a position which we are seeking to put right.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what consideration he is now giving to the extension of special development area status to districts with high unemployment in Wales.

This is primarily a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry but I am in close touch with him.

Is the Secretary of State aware that that is a very discouraging reply in view of his oversight responsibilities for this matter in Wales? Would he be good enough to tell the House now what criteria the Government require before they will extend special development area status to these districts of high unemployment? Is he aware that unemployment in my constituency is about 12 per cent. and that some additional incentives are required if there is to be any hope of industrial development in the future?

Yes. The criteria which we apply are the same as those which were applied by our predecessors. Special development area status is being given to those areas with a high number of employed as well as a high percentage of unemployment and where basic industries are declining. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry told the House on 17th January that a study of regional policy is continuing, and these matters are being taken into account.

Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman say when the study, of which we have heard a great deal during the past few weeks, is to be published?

No. I could not say. We have to take into account many factors. My right hon. Friend has told the House that this study is being made. Matters such as those which the right hon. Gentleman raised are being considered.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend intensify the consideration which I know he has already been giving to the problems of areas in Wales which are excluded from all assisted status?

I can certainly say "Yes" to that. I know that my hon. Friend will appreciate that it would be wrong to take decisions on the status of particular areas in isolation.

Will the Secretary of State acknowledge that the phrase "a high number" is about as scientifically useful as the phrase "a large hole"? Will he tell us what "high number" is used as the criterion in deciding when special development area status should be granted? The answer he has given is of no help to any hon. Member.

I must ask the hon. Gentleman to await the outcome of the decisions which will be taken on the review which is taking place.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales (1) how many nursery school places he expects to approve for Wales for 1973;

Nursery places are provided at present under the Urban Aid Programme and I shall shortly be inviting proposals for phase 7 of this programme, which will include capital projects to be started in 1973–74.

Is the right hon. and learned Genetleman aware that the figures for the provision of nursery schooling in Wales are scandalously low? Has he no interest in the under-fives? Will he take an interest in the requirements of the large new housing estate in East Flintshire where there is not a single nursery school?

The hon. Gentleman should not use the term "scandalously low", nor should he suggest that I have no interest in the under-fives. In 1971 I programmed 2,440 nursery places, four times as many places as in the previous 10 years, and in two years I have programmed seven times as many nursery places as the previous Administration did in six years. For the period 1970–72 I have programmed 400 nursery places in East Flintshire alone.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is the average estimated cost of providing an underpass for cattle when a newly constructed dual carriageway divides a farm in two.

The cost will depend on site and other conditions but will normally lie in the range beween £5,000 and £20,000.

Will my right hon. and learned Friend agree that the range of costs indicated would be met many times over in the prevention of loss of life and damage to livestock which arise when cattle have to be driven across dual carriageways?

Yes, Sir. When farms are severed by new roads it is standard practice to consider whether the two sections should be joined by an underpass or an over-bridge. I know of my hon. Friend's interest in this matter, because he wrote to me on behalf of his farmers, and I shall be replying to his letter very soon.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he will give the number per 1,000 of registered physically handicapped persons in rank order for each local authority for the period 1965–66, 1966–67, 1967–68, 1968–69, 1969–70 and 1970–71.

I refer the hon. Member to the answers given to him on 15th March, 1971. As my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Security said on 23rd November, 1971, it has become apparent that publication of figures in this form is liable to be misleading. My right hon. and learned Friend does not consider that he would be justified in supplying further figures as requested.—[Vol. 813, c. 255; Vol. 826, c. 320.]

Is the hon. Gentleman suggesting that the figures which he gave me 12 months ago are misleading? Is he aware that they appear in the OFFICIAL REPORT and have not been withdrawn? Is he also aware of the significance of what he said? If we have an accountancy system, and local authorities have to account for the manner in which their money is spent, surely it is a simple matter to extract the figures? Is he not hiding, shielding and protecting those local authorities who are not willing to implement the "Alf Morris" Act as this House intended?

The answer to the first and last of the four questions is "No". The answer to the second question is "Yes". The answer to the third question is that registration of the disabled is not a condition for the provision of a service, and local authorities adopt widely differing practices with regard to it. Registration is, therefore, no measure either of services or of incidence of handicap.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what is the present position of the proposals for a new town at Llantrisant.

I am considering the views which local authorities and other interested bodies have expressed on my proposals. I expect to make an announcement in the near future.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that if his proposal for a new county of mid-Glamorgan becomes effective it is highly probable that that new county will give no support to a new town at Llantrisant? In view of this, will he now cancel any plans which are being considered by his Department and others and convert any public money saved thereby into improving the valley communities in East Glamorgan and West Monmouthshire?

The possible effect of local government reorganisation is one of the factors which I shall take into account in coming to my decision. I do not see any reason why the proposed mid-Glamorgan county should adversely affect my original proposal that there should be a new town at Llantrisant, but I will take into account all the representations which have been made to me and the consultations which have taken place.

Would not the Secretary of State be better advised to listen to my hon. Friend? If there is £300 million—or whatever the figure is—to be invested in this new town, would not that sum be better invested in the Rhondda, Merthyr and Aberdare Valleys, to encourage them?

The right hon. Gentleman is right in suggesting that about £300 million of public and private money is expected to be spent over a period. Llantrisant is particularly well placed in relation to the largest concentrations of valley populations and should provide additional employment opportunities for people living in the valley, thereby ensuring continued use of existing social investment there.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales to what extent he estimates the functions, in relation to housing, at present enjoyed by Swansea City Council, will be affected should the Housing Finance Bill become law.

Swansea City Council will continue to exercise its present housing functions and will also be given important new functions in the private housing sector.

Is the Minister aware that in this case he has not read the Bill? Is he also aware that all local authorities in Wales will have their rent-fixing powers usurped by the Government-appointed non-elected rent scrutiny boards, and that Swansea City Council, in company with others which do not impose a rent increase by 1st April, must impose by retrospective legislation a mandatory increase of £1 a week on all local authority houses in October? Is the Minister aware that the Housing Finance Bill in certain circumstances imposes fines on tenants, councillors and council officers and effectively removes housing control from democratically elected councillors in Swansea and all Wales?

The extensive housing functions now undertaken by local authorities will remain their responsibility in the future, and there is no proposal to alter this. Authorities will continue to be responsible for assessing the housing needs in their area and for taking steps to meet those needs.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he now proposes to hold a further meeting with Swansea City Council about his local government reform proposals.

I have already held one meeting with the city council. I do not think that a further meeting would produce any information not already available to me.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Gower (Mr. Ifor Davies), my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea, East (Mr. McBride) and I discovered when we met the Secretary of State last week that the adding of Gower to Swansea rests on two dubious points—the first being two words appearing in a set of minutes, which were not reported verbatim, of a meeting between the right hon. Gentleman and the council, this set of minutes having neither been seen nor corroborated by Swansea, and the second being a majority of three on the Gower R.D.C., which represents fewer than 20,000 people, the unanimous opposition of Swansea Council, which represents 180,000 people having been ignored—may I ask the right hon. and learned Gentleman to look again at his decision in the light of the evidence which I sent him subsequent to the meeting last week?

The attitude of Swansea Council is, I believe, perfectly clear. The city council's first choice was that it should be the centre of a one-tier authority. Its second choice was that Swansea, within its present boundaries, should be a new district within the new county of West Glamorgan. When Swansea Council met me I was told that it would be prepared, as a third choice, to accept Gower, provided it was the whole of Gower. The Gower R.D.C., on the other hand, by a letter dated 26th May, told me that the council had approved a resolution unanimously to the effect that the whole of the R.D.C. of Gower should form part of the district forming Swansea.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what progress is being made in acquiring the land at Cil Melyn for the proposed new general hospital for Caernarvon and Anglesey.

I understand that the planning authorities are now pre pared to issue a certificate of alternative development under the Land Compensation Act, 1961, for the whole of the site and the district valuer is proceeding with his negotiations for the acquisition on that basis.

I am grateful in a limited sense to the Minister of State for that reply, but is he aware that there is considerable concern in North Wales about the delay in acquiring this land, and that the consultants and the nursing staff of the Caernarvon and Anglesey Infirmary are working under considerable difficulty? Is it still Government policy to commence work on this hospital in 1975?

Negotiations for the purchase of land are often protracted, especially when, as in this case, the land is in multi-ownership. On the question of time, I can give the right hon Gentleman the assurance that the planning of the new hospital is proceeding well and is in no way affected by the negotiations for the land.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many council houses there are in Wales.

It is estimated that there were 260,000 at the end of 1971.

Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that a policy which deliberately imposes rent increases will inevitably force up the cost of living for people on low incomes, particularly in Wales, and will trigger off defensive wage claims? Will he therefore bear in mind that in the next year he may see many such claims in view of the Government's regressive rent legislation plus V.A.T.?

The hon. Gentleman's Question referred to the number of council houses in Wales and not to rents.

When the Minister's officials discuss the future of housing in Wales with local authorities and the question of rents comes up, do they tell those local authorities that in the event of their promising not to comply with the Housing Finance Bill until it becomes law, the withdrawal of subsidies and other finance is threatened in respect of the period before the Measure becomes law?

:That does not arise on this Question.

Answer.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many and what proportion of local authorities in Wales now add fluoride to public water supplies; and what advice he is giving to local authorities on this subject.

Of the 17 local health authorities in Wales, only Anglesey County Council provides fluoridated water. Some parts of Radnorshire and Breconshire receive fluoridated water from the Birmingham Aqueduct. Four other authorities are planning to fluoridate water in further areas. This subject was brought to the attention of local health authorities in 1969.

As successive Governments, Labour and Conservative, and successive Secretaries of State responsible for Health and Social Security have strongly supported the idea of adding fluoride, may I ask my hon. Friend to explain why there has been such a poor response from Welsh local authorities?

As my hon. Friend will be aware, the Government have no intention of introducing legislation on this issue. This must be a matter for local health authorities to decide. I would add only that the total number of people affected by authorities which will fluoridate their water will greatly increase under present plans.

Would the hon. Gentleman mind translating the word "fluoridate", which he has sought to pronounce, into English for the benefit of those who do not follow the Welsh language?

Speaking as one Welshman to another, I suggest that that is a legal matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many local authorities in Wales now grant mortgage advances for house purchase; how many refuse all applications for such mortgage advances; and what action he will take to encourage these local authorities to resume such advances.

One hundred and fifty housing authorities and four county councils in Wales are normally prepared to make home loans. In only nine housing authority areas are such advances not generally available. All housing authorities which have not taken such action have already been asked to consider doing so.

Can the Minister confirm that in every case local authorities which perform this function can cover all their administrative expenses and are permitted a margin of, say, ½ per cent.? Does he expect that all local authorities will shortly be granting mortgages?

As my hon. Friend knows, a number of authorities suspended their schemes when funds were restricted by the quota system imposed by the last Administration. My hon. Friend will be glad to know that Cardiff R.D.C., which lends for improvements and repairs but is not at present implementing the scheme which has been adopted for home loans, is in process of reviewing its policy.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales what response he has had to his Circular 38/72 about operation eyesore.

The response to date has been most encouraging. More than 20 local authorities have already been in touch with the derelict land unit of the Welsh Office and these authorities have under consideration more than 100 schemes.

Is my hon. Friend aware that his circular has been widely welcomed? May we have an indication of the types of scheme that will receive favourable consideration? Will he ask his right hon. and noble Friend to instruct the Ministry of Defence to clear away its mess before it leaves, so as to avoid creating fresh centres of dereliction?

The answer to the second part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question is "Yes". Examples under the scheme are the planting of trees or grass seeding with the aim of improving the appearance of drab and unsightly areas, the clearing up of disused allotments, the clearing of debris from rivers and canals and the improving of river banks.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that one eyesore in Wales needs removing but that the innate good manners of my hon. Friends prevent us from referring to Her Majesty's Government in such unsalubrious terms?

asked the Secretary of State for Wales whether he will ask the Welsh Council to consider whether the designs of Government factories are suitable for potential users in rural areas.

No, Sir. I do not think it would be appropriate to do so.

While thanking my right hon. and learned Friend for that not very encouraging reply and while understanding the desirability of building factories that can be used for a wide variety of different occupants, may I ask whether he is aware that in many small rural towns and villages in Wales the need is for the type of factory with a low roof so that the building can be easily heated and can be used for assembly jobs? Will he consult his right hon. Friend at the Department of Trade and Industry on this matter?

Yes, Sir. I have taken note of what my hon. Friend said and I will certainly bring his comments to the attention of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if, in the next Welsh Report, he will devote a larger section to the Youth Employment Service, because of the proposals in the paper, "People and Jobs".

I will bear this suggestion in mind.

Will the Secretary of State take the opportunity to explain the advantages, if any, of taking the work of the Youth Employment Service away from local education authorities and transferring it to the Department of Employment? Are not the right hon. and learned Gentleman and his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment satisfied with the degree of advice given by the service at present, or are they trying to blame the service for the present level of youth unemployment?

The proposals contained in "People and Jobs" are somewhat more complicated than one would assume from what the hon. Gentleman said. These proposals are being discussed at present with the local authority associations.

Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware of the dedicated service of many of these youth employment officers, who perform an essential service? Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman do all he can to ensure their professional status?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many housing authorities in Wales do not, at present, operate rent rebate schemes.

Housing authorities are not required to inform me whether or not they operate rent rebate schemes. At least 60 do and their schemes cover nearly 60 per cent. of local authority dwellings.

Does my hon. Friend agree that those authorities which do not operate rent rebate schemes, many of them Socialist-controlled, should be encouraged to follow the example of the large county borough authorities?

Certainly the Cardiff City Council intends to begin operating a rent rebate scheme based on the prescribed model from April, 1972. It has already circulated its tenants to this effect, and I welcome its initiative in taking this step. This comes about as a result of the provisions of the Housing Finance Bill. The benefits of the rent rebate scheme will be available to all council tenants in Wales and not merely those now covered by existing schemes.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that what the Government are doing is increasing the rents of our people as from 1st April, and that he would do far better to come clean about it?

I have said already to the right hon. Gentleman that this is the first Government to try to bring justice into rents in this country.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he will make a statement on the effects, during the six months to the end of January, 1972, since July, 1971, of the Government's financial measures, on the sales of the motor industry overseas, and at home; and what is his estimate of the industry's further prospects.

Exports of cars in the period increased in number and value by 2½ and 11 per cent. respectively compared with a year earlier; commercial vehicle exports rose correspondingly by 7 and 19 per cent. Registrations of cars and commercial vehicles rose by 38 and 12 per cent. respectively on provisional estimates. Demand is expected to remain buoyant in 1972.

While these figures are impressive and good, will my right hon. Friend direct his attention to the paradox that, the better the figures become, the greater unemployment in the West Midlands becomes, which is the hub of the motor industry? Therefore, will my right hon. Friend urge on the Chancellor of the Exchequer the need for further means to reduce that unemployment in his forthcoming Budget?

It is clear that the expansion of the home market and the rising demand abroad give good prospects for exports and, therefore, for absorbing the unemployment to which my hon. Friend refers. No doubt my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer will observe my hon. Friend's remarks.

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if he will now seek to introduce legislation to ban the import into Great Britain of the skins of the snow leopard, clouded leopard, tiger, La Plata otter, giant otter, leopard, and cheetah.

I am unable as yet to add anything to my reply on 25th January to the Question by the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull, West (Mr. James Johnson).—[Vol. 829, c. 396.]

Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the International Fur Trade Federation last year urged a voluntary ban on trading in the skins of all these animals and that, because London is the centre of the world's fur trade, legislation by this Government supporting this voluntary ban would be of enormous importance? If the hon. Gentleman cannot legislate, will he agree to inform those women who walk round with furs draped over them that many of the animals have had to be killed by thrusting red hot irons up their anuses?

It is not for me to advise people in that respect. I am entirely in sympathy, in principle, with the need for conservation, as the action which I took to preserve the vicuna indicates. The problem here is not one of legislation. It is one of making an order under the existing legislation, and the Customs have to be certain that they can enforce it. We have had evidence from the fur trade which has been very satisfactory, and we are taking it into consideration.

Is not my hon. Friend aware of the widespread feeling in the country that trade in the skins of endangered species must be stopped by all Governments before the species disappear altogether, and that many of us feel that our Government should set an example?

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend's observation. I want only to emphasise the need to ensure that the powers we take will be effective. This is what we are engaged in at the moment.

Will it be possible to ban these imports if and when we join the Common Market?

This issue is not affected by entry into the Common Market. We can take the powers as soon as we are satisfied that Customs are able to enforce them.

While the Minister is reflecting on this general question, will he at any rate take steps to remove such of these animals who found their way recently into the Department of Employment?