asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what consultation he is having with the European Economic Community on the 1972 Farm Price Review.

At my recent meeting with Dr. Mansholt we discussed the current Annual Review. Officials of my Department have also had contacts with the Commission.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that that reply will be received with some regret? Will he explain the locus standi of the European Economic Community in the Farm Price Review? Is he not expecting that the European Communities Bill will become law?

We have an interim arrangement with the Community by which we discuss these matters with them and they discuss them with us. We are perfectly free at this time to make our own decisions.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what further estimates he has now made of the increase in food prices following Common Market entry.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what is his latest estimate of food price increases if Great Britain should join the European Economic Community.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if, in view of higher European Economic Community prices to farmers and lower world prices for some commodities, he will now reassess the effects of entry to the European Economic Community on the British consumer.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what forecasts and estimates of the effects of the common agricultural policy he has now published; and whether he will make a statement.

The latest estimate of the effect on food prices of our entry to the E.E.C. is contained in paragraph 88 of the White Paper "The United Kingdom and the European Communities", Cmnd. 4715. I have undertaken to revise this estimate when farm prices for the corning year have been determined.

Is it not a scandal that food prices rose by 15 per cent. last year and will rise further on our entry to the Common Market, yet the Agricultural Wages Board has had the audacity to say that £16 a week is enough for the average farm worker to live on? Is it not time to set up a Wilberforce court of inquiry into the reason why food prices are reaching astronomical heights while agricultural wages remain shockingly low?

This has very little relevance to the Question on the Order Paper. The agricultural workers had an increase only last month, and the hon. Gentleman should bear that in mind.

Will any review such as the Minister specified in the E.E.C. White Paper take account of value-added tax and the higher distribution costs of food products which may result from it?

What the House has asked me for at the moment is a revised estimate of the gap which we shall have to bridge to join our prices to the Community's prices, and that will be altered by the increase in prices which the Community may give next month or some time soon. That is what my review will deal with.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Bassetlaw (Mr. Ashton) asked a supplementary question about farm workers, and my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Wythenshawe (Mr. Alfred Morris) originally put down an Oral Question on this subject, which, for technical reasons is now to have a Written Answer, is it possible to answer that Question orally?

On a point of order. Is it not bogus for a right hon. Member of the experience of the right hon. Member for Workington (Mr. Peart) to try to drag in a Question which has been demoted to a Written Question by the rule of the House?

Order. It would be better if matters of order were left to me.

The question of agricultural workers' wages is entirely a matter for the independent Agricultural Wages Board. Wages went up as recently as last month by amounts which, it is estimated, will raise earnings by 8 per cent. and the minimum weekly wage by 9½ per cent.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what is the average rise in the cost of food to the consumer, and the average rise in the farm-gate price of food since June, 1970.

Agricultural prices—excluding prices for fruit and vegetables, for which figures are not yet available—rose by 6·4 per cent. between the harvest years 1969–70 and 1970–71. Over a broadly similar period, the National Food Survey figures for household expenditure on food rose by 7·3 per cent.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for those figures. Do they not show that the rise in retail prices of food to the housewife cannot be blamed on the farmers and that to a large extent, bearing in mind the figures given in the Grocer last week, distributors, manufacturers and processers of food are getting away with murder? What steps does he intend to take to ensure that his competitive policy comes home to this industry and makes it charge a proper price for its products?

I do not accept what the hon. Gentleman says. One of the important factors in any increase in prices has been the effect of the cost of imported foods. World prices have risen enormously; another main factor has been the general level of wages. Agricultural output, in terms of increased price, is roughly in line with the increased cost to the consumer.

Will my right hon. Friend say why the information in regard to the price of fruit and vegetables is not yet available? Is he aware that fruit and vegetables play a very important part in the diet of the average family? Will he confirm that the British horticulturist is in no way responsible for the increase in prices?

I could not definitely confirm the last part of my hon. Friend's remarks. They are not necessarily true, because there has been some increase in fruit and vegetable prices as well. The figures that I have given are based on the agricultural price index which is compiled by my Department and which runs from June to May each year. The figures for vegetables and fruit are not yet available.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what was the increase in the prices of home-grown and imported foodstuffs, respectively, in the period from December, 1970, to December, 1971.

There is no clear-cut division in the food index between homegrown and imported foodstuffs. Details for certain sub-groups of the index, are, however, available, and I will, with permission, circulate those in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that reply. Does he recall that 12 months ago he was in the habit of saying that much of the increase in food prices was consequential upon increasing world prices? Does not he agree that the impact of this Government's policies on reducing the rate of inflation may be rather less than is sometimes pretended by the right hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends?

I am not absolutely certain of the hon. Gentleman's point, but, as the figures show, the largest increase occurred in the sub-group covering those commodities imported mainly for direct consumption. But there has also been a considerable increase in those commodities at home.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that the marked increase in the prices of such imported commodities as butter has made it very difficult for him to control retail prices in the shops?

Yes. I can confirm that the price of dairy products has been a major problem in trying to keep down prices. I am glad to say that we now appear to be over the hump of increases in dairy produce. This is the best news that we have had for some while.

Why is it that when right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite are in office it is import prices which affect food prices, whereas when the last Government were in office the right hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends always blamed the Government?

Because that happens to be precisely true.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what complaints he has received about the continued increase in food prices in the Greater London area since Christmas 1971; and what reply he has sent.

I have received about 20 letters and have sent appropriate replies.

Irrespective of how many complaints or letters the Minister has received, is he aware that I have received hundreds of letters from people in Islington and throughout London, especially the elderly, who just cannot manage on their low pensions'? What is he doing about the situation?

The hon. Gentleman has probably just heard me say that we are reviewing old-age pensions every year. That is the best possible thing that could happen for old-age pensioners.

Is the Minister aware that people generally in London, like Members of Parliament, have got fed up with writing to him, because they cannot get any reply at all, let alone a satisfactory reply? Will he do something to bring down prices "at a stroke", as was promised by his right hon. Friends and himself?

If the hon. Gentleman has any evidence of having written a letter to me without getting a reply, perhaps he will let me know. I should also point out that he puts down more Questions to my Ministry than does any other Member, and that he gets more replies.

I get evasions, not answers.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what has been the increase in food prices between December, 1970, and December, 1971.

Between 15th December, 1970, and 14th December, 1971, the food index rose by 13 per cent.

Is the Minister aware that he has told the House on frequent occasions recently that he has got food price increases under control? What kind of control is 13 per cent? Surely he will not tell us that it is due to the farm workers' wage increase, especially when we take into account the fact that productivity has risen by 6 per cent. Is it not time that the right hon. Gentleman brought prices under control and at the same time met the agricultural workers' leader, Reg Bertini, to agree a reasonable settlement for farm workers' wages?

On the latter part of the hon. Gentleman's question, I hope that the Opposition will not try to take away from the Agricultural Wages Board a position which it held under the previous Government and with which it would be extremely dangerous for either side of the House to interfere. Regarding the level of prices, I know that the hon. Gentleman will be extremely pleased to hear that since July the increase in prices has been 3·4 per cent.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that if it had not been for the tremendous efforts made by British agriculture these prices might have been considerably higher? Will he also bear in mind that it has been a tremendous effort to achieve this position after the barren, impotent years that agriculture suffered under the Socialist Government?

As my hon. Friend will expect, I agree with every word he said.

Is the Minister really aware of the difficulties with which many of my elderly constituents are having to contend because of food prices? It may not be to the point, but may I ask whether he is aware that people are now offering those of my constituents who are suffering financial hardship £300 for vacant possession of their houses?

I am aware of the great difficulties which inflation brings to all those who live on pensions and fixed incomes. That is why I sometimes get a little fed up with right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite trying to get increased wages for everyone else in the community, which is the main cause of increased prices.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will state the percentage food price increases for November and December, 1971.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what was the percentage food price increase during November and December, 1971.

Between mid-October and mid-November, 1971, the food index rose by 1·3 per cent.; and between mid-November and mid-December it rose by 1·7 per cent.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that for 12 months now he has been announcing food prices week in, week out—or at least every other week in, and every other week out? As it is now transparently clear that these increases are not caused through any wage increase to agricultural workers, will he stop this competition in which he is indulging with his right hon. Friend from the Department of Employment, who seems set on increasing unemployment at the same time as the right hon. Gentleman seems set on increasing food prices for ordinary people?

I am not set on increasing food prices. In fact, in the last six months there has been a considerable improvement. If right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite will wait a little longer they will see how great that improvement has been.

Will my right hon. Friend observe that the success of his policies in agriculture, which have led to such a large increase in home-produced food, have had the influence of stabilising food prices, which are now rising at a much less steep rate than in the preceding 12 months?

Yes Sir. These are two parts of our policy, and given the fact that we still have a large legacy to get over in both parts of that policy, I am certain that in a very few months now we shall be showing results.

I do not know why the Minister should be pleased at this, since his whole policy as enunciated before was that he believed in high prices. Secondly, it is quite correct that we have to return to a figure for 12 months. There has been a 13 per cent. increase in food prices—

Order. Is the hon. Gentleman asking a question or seeking to impart information? if it is the latter, he is out of order.

Is the Minister aware that there has been an increase in food prices of 13 per cent. over the last 12 months and that this continual approach both by himself and his supporters, to give figures for the last, six months, when food prices are always low, is no excuse?

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman takes a poor view of the fact that in the last 12 months we have done much to keep prices under control.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will seek to terminate the statutory monopoly privileges of the British Sugar Corporation.

Yes Sir, if it were in the national interest to do so, in the light of a specific proposition.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that answer, so far as it goes. I urge him to press on with this. In the meantime, will he reconsider the rejection by his right hon. Friend of my suggestion that the Government should disembarrass themselves of their holding in the corporation? If, as I hope we shall, we are soon to get shot of the monopoly privileges of the Corporation, surely there can be no justification for the retention of the Government's shareholding? Let us get rid of both, and the sooner the better.

It is perfectly possible to terminate the statutory monopoly privileges while still retaining a Government interest.

Will the hon. Gentleman give the House an assurance that he will not allow the corporation to build a new factory in East Anglia, having closed down one in Scotland?

It is the policy of the corporation to increase the size of its factories in order to get more efficient throughput.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will make a statement about the price and content of beer.

The annual increase of 3 per cent. in beer consumption seems to convey more about the price and content of beer, and the consumer satisfaction it provides, than I could say in any statement.

Is the Minister aware that following his reply, I find it extremely difficult to think up a supplementary question? However, is he aware that no fewer than three breweries have announced increases of 1p a pint on beer as from yesterday, following a similar announcement by two other breweries at the beginning of the month about increased beer prices? Does the hon. Gentleman not feel that, in view of the fact that there is no sign of breweries increasing the strength of beer, he should punish them by refusing to accept contributions from them to Tory Party funds until they mend their ways?

The price of beer has been steady for over a year. Recent selective increases have been below 5 per cent. in relation to output as a whole and therefore have been consistent with the C.B.I. initiative. I feel that the last part of the hon. Member's supplementary question was fathered by spite out of envy.

Did we not go into the question of beer during the last Question Time on agricultural matters, and was it not then revealed that the National Board for Prices and Incomes, which was set up by the Labour Government, not only regarded the price of beer as reasonable but thought that it ought to be increased?

Yes, Sir.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will consider further interim cereal deficiency payments at an early date.

My right hon. Friend proposes to consider whether anything further should be done when average market prices are available to the end of this month.

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Am I right in reading into it a note of optimism? If that is correct, could he indicate that that is the case as soon as possible, so that confidence can be restored to cereal-growing areas?

With great respect to my hon. Friend, I do not accept that confidence requires to be restored, since it is there already. So far as optimism goes, I am certain that my hon. Friend, who, like myself, is a farmer, realises that all farmers are optimists.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what have been the respective increases in the prices of fertilisers and agricultural machinery bought by farms and in the wages paid in agriculture during the last 12 months.

During the year ending October, 1971, prices before subsidy for solid compound and straight nitrogen fertilisers rose by 15 per cent. and wholesale prices of agricultural machinery rose on average by 10 per cent. The minimum weekly wage of regular whole-time adult male workers in England and Wales rose over the same period by 13 per cent. for a 42-as compared with a 43-hour week.

In view of those figures, will my hon. Friend represent to the Minister that unless there is a considerable increase in the Price Review he will not be able to achieve from agriculture the expansion across the board which Conservative Members so desire?

I think it not unlikely that my right hon. Friend has heard those remarks.

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that earnings rates rather than weekly rates would have shown that the increase in earnings was below the increase in either fertiliser or machinery prices, and that from the point of view of the farm labourer the earnings rates form a rather more important element?

I am afraid that I cannot give the hon. Gentleman a direct reply on that matter. If he cares to table a Question on that point I shall give him an answer.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary agree that the break- down of negotiations on the farmworkers' resubmitted claim is a serious matter? Will he and his right hon. Friend agree to use their best offices to seek a resumption of negotiations as soon as possible?

I am sure the hon. Gentlemen realizes—I know that his right hon. Friend the Member for Workington (Mr. Peart) realises it—that wage rates are entirely a matter for the boards, which are autonomous bodies. It would be a bad day if Ministers started to interfere with them.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what study he is making of the effect of farm effluent on the environment.

My Department and the Agricultural Research Council are co-operating in a joint programme of investigations into the problems of farm waste disposal. The aim is to develop practical and economic disposal methods which will avoid any deleterious effect on the environment.

Does the Department accept that about 12 million cattle and 7 million pigs are more or less under intensive farming, and that the sewage disposal problem is equivalent to that of 200 million human beings? In those circumstances, does the Department accept the recommendation of the Royal Commission on the Environment that certain financial incentives should be given to farmers to persuade them to use manure in intensive farming?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for drawing that useful information to the notice of the House. Though I am interested to hear about it, I should say that it is difficult to include slurry in the fertiliser subsidy, since the contents of slurry vary so much, and the subsidy is based on fertiliser content. Economic inducements are also a difficult matter, but I would point out that we grant-aid such things as slurry tanks and slurry ponds.

Does my hon. Friend realise that there is a good deal of urgency in this matter, since in many areas river authorities are becoming anxious about the effluent flowing into rivers, and that it is a costly process to put the matter right? Could not some form of grant-aided help be given, as this would be welcomed by the industry?

There are about 100 different experimental projects taking place in regard to farm waste disposal, and I assure my hon. Friend that no effort is being spared.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what steps he intends to take to implement the Government's declaration on hill farming on page 127 of Command Paper No. 4862–1.

We are already providing special help to hill farmers to maintain reasonable incomes through the hill livestock subsidies and the capital grants, and as my right hon. Friend announced last October we shall be seeking parliamentary approval to the new livestock subsidies in due course. The Community recognise the need for measures to preserve reasonable incomes in hill areas.

Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that it is the Government's intention to maintain reasonable prices to farmers in hill areas? Are they confident that this can be done within the terms of the Treaty and the common agricultural policy?

Yes, Sir. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will have seen the very optimistic remarks of Dr. Mansholt three weeks ago.

Is my hon. Friend aware that the higher rate of capital grant for hill farmers appears to end on 18th March? Will he bear in mind that unless we can have an early announcement of an extension of the time for the higher rate a great deal of the improvement in hill farms will not come about this season?

Yes, Sir. The continuation was for a strict period of two years, but consideration of its continuation is going on.

Will the hon. Gentleman say what consideration the Government are giving to more specific proposals to assist the general objective of maintaining the incomes of hill farmers, perhaps in line with the French Government's proposals put forward in legislation last month to define certain regions as being areas where special aid can be given? Will the hon. Gentleman also say what discussions Her Majesty's Government have had with Dr. Mansholt about the modification of the common agricultural policy, especially about his recent proposals as they affect hills and uplands?

If the hon. Gentleman cares to put down a Question on that last point, I shall answer it. As for the hon. Gentleman's point about concentrating on the regions, it is very difficult to differentiate between, say, Caithness and Sunderland and Argyllshire. But it is a matter that we have had under consideration.

Does my hon. Friend agree that the useful package of measures brought in by the German Government and the French Government to help their hill farmers, including, in the latter case, £15 per head per hill cow and a headage payment for sheep, will greatly assist him in giving the fair deal to our own hill farmers that he has promised?

The headage payments for our hill cows are not insubstantial. They play a valuable part in keeping up incomes and production.

How is it that a small country like the Republic of Ireland has been able to safeguard her vital agricultural interests by way of a protocol when a country of our power has been unable to do so? Will the hon. Gentleman negotiate for specific guarantees for our hill farmers, and for those and other matters to be included in a protocol?

We have no intention of creating any rigid structure for hill farms. Conditions are changing all the time. It does not necessarily follow that our present methods of support will continue for ever. We have assurances which the farming community regards as thoroughly adequate.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if it is his intention to allocate funds specifically for the purpose of enabling horticulturists to carry out essential re-structuring programmes to meet the new patterns of demands that will result from United Kingdom membership of the European Economic Community; and if he will make a statement.

Grants towards investment in horticultural buildings and equipment are available under the Horticulture Improvement Scheme. My right hon. Friend has made it clear that he is prepared to consider some special help for growers who will face special problems as a result of entry into the European Economic Community. This is under discussion with growers' representatives.

Is my hon. Friend aware that in the horticultural industry there is a growing realisation that certain sectors will do well and that, consequently, they are looking to my hon. Friend's Department to give tangible support to their plans in order to make the necessary reorientation and then for the subsequent expansion in production?

The other day I listened to the convener of the N.F.U. Horticulture Committee expressing great optimism for many sections of the horticultural industry. The industry is resilient and resolute. My right hon. Friend has never failed to say that there will be different sectors, just as he has said that he is prepared to consider any special difficulties put to him.

The right hon. Gentleman has said that he is prepared to give special help for special problems. Now that we are to consider the European Communities Bill in a Committee of the whole House today, to what extent does the right hon. Gentleman intend to give hon. Members information about special help for special problems and other up-dated information, so that hon. Members may make use of it during the course of discussions on Amendments?

That is a matter which might be elucidated during the course of discussions on the Bill, if the questions are in order.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food when he intends to announce how the European Economic Communities system for fixing target prices for cereals of prescribed qualities in the opening months of the season in the area of the greatest deficit will be adapted for this country; and what will constitute the area of greatest deficit in the United Kingdom.

As soon as the necessary consultations with our farming and other interests and with the European Economic Commission have been completed. In the meanwhile we cannot anticipate how the new system will be applied.

Does my hon. Friend agree that very little is known about the intervention system for cereals as applied to this country? For instance, will Duisburg be the area of greatest deficit for us or will the location be in the United Kingdom? Will he tell us when these negotiations are likely to be concluded, and when he expects to be able to explain the position?

As my hon. Friend knows, we shall have common prices within the Community by 1978. There will be six steps. There have not been any discussions yet, and I should not wish to prejudice them by giving a specific answer or making speculations.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what proportion of a retired married couple's pension was usually spent on food at the latest date for which figures are available; and what proportion was so spent in the last quarter of 1969.

The Family Expenditure Survey data are based on the total expenditure of the household. On this basis, food represented 34·5 per cent. of the total expenditure by retired pensioner couples' households in the last quarter of 1969 when pensions were increased. The latest available survey results relate to the third quarter of 1971, at the end of which pensions were increased, and the proportion was then 33·9 per cent. The increase in the week beginning 20th September, 1971, brought the real value of pensions to the highest level ever.

Is the Minister aware that, due to the complete failure of this Government to control the prices of basic foodstuffs, many pensioners find it extremely difficult to afford a sensible and balanced diet?

I do not accept that. The National Food Survey showed that there was no decline in the nutrition levels of pensioners during this period.

Is not it clear from my right hon. Friend's original answer—which the hon. Member for Southampton, Itchen (Mr. R. C. Mitchell) failed to take in—that the position in this respect is better now than it was three years ago?

Certainly. Apart from that, the very fact we are reviewing pensions every year is a point about which the whole country should know and which right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite should applaud.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman recognise that the real seriousness of the problem is the very high proportion of the pension which has to be spent on food, and that the fact that it has not been increased beyond 33·9 per cent. is because pensioners have had to cut back on expenditure on food? Since the right hon. Gentleman is devoted to the principle of high food costs and has objected to the people of this country being mollycoddled with cheap food, will he say whether he extends the concept of mollycoddling to pensioners?

I have always believed that there is a sensible moderate price for food which people should be prepared to pay. I have to look at both sides of the picture. One is to give agriculturists a decent return—and that includes agricultural workers. It is important to increase food production in this country. The other side is to try to keep down imports and at the same time help the consumer.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what instructions he has given the Milk Marketing Board regarding the price of milk supplied to schoolchildren through local authority schemes; and how this compares with the prevailing price available to their parents.

This is not a matter within the control of the Milk Marketing Board. The price of milk supplied to pupils in schools depends on the actual purchase price negotiated by local education authorities and on the expense of providing it.

Nevertheless, is the Minister aware that the Milk Marketing Board has been actively persuading local education authorities to sell milk to schoolchildren and that, in a growing number of education areas, the schoolchildren are paying 2p for their third of a pint, which is a ½p more per pint than their mothers are paying for the cheapest milk delivered by the rounds-man? In one education area by the summer children will be paying 3p for a third of a pint, which represents a 64 per cent. increase over what their mothers will be paying for the same milk from the shops. Is there no limit to the economic silliness of the Minister's right hon. and hon. Friends on their decision to deprive 7 to 11-year-old schoolchildren of free school milk?

The maximum retail price for pasteurised milk is 2p for a third of a pint.

That is what I said.

Schools should not pay more than the maximum price, and they may very well be able to get it for less.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if, arising from recent approaches from the Northumberland Fishing Association and other bodies, he will take the steps necessary to increase the six-mile fishing limit from Berwick to Coquet Island to 12 miles and thus keep in line with the rest of the east coast.

No, Sir. The negotiations on the terms of entry to the European Communities have been concluded.

Is the Minister aware that his reply underlines the sell-out not only of the interests of the North Northumberland fishermen, but, indeed, of our Norwegian E.F.T.A. partners? If, in the agreement to which he referred in his reply, it is possible to keep the whole of the Northumberland coast on a 12-mile limit for conservation, why was it decided earlier by our negotiators to give away six miles for other fishing limits?

I do not accept what the hon. Gentleman has said. On that part of the coast the base lines are extremely favourable to the local fishermen, as I pointed out on a tracing which I sent to him.

Is the Minister aware that very many members of the inshore fishing industry believe that the Government have sold them down the river?

The only people who believe that are some of the anti-Marketeers on the benches opposite.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will review the level of compensation paid in respect of tuberculosis reactors in the light of current cattle prices.

Yes, Sir. My right hon. Friend and his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland are reviewing the present ceiling on compensation of £120 per animal.

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that reply. Can he give an indication when the review might be completed, because he will realise that the present disparity between compensation and cattle prices is causing a good deal of difficulty to many farmers who have suffered outbreaks of tuberculosis?

I hope that the review will not take long. I appreciate the point about the recent and sudden rise in values, and this justifies the review.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what is his estimate of the increase in, respectively, butter and margarine consumption in the United Kingdom over the past 12 months.

Most recent indications are that United Kingdom consumption of butter fell from 19·3 lbs. per head in 1970 to an estimated 17·9 lbs. per head in 1971, while consumption of margarine per head rose from 11·8 lbs. in 1970 to an estimated 12·7 lbs. in 1971.

In contradiction to television advertising, would the Minister agree that the majority of the British people can tell butter from margarine? Would he also agree that the reason for the high consumption of margarine is that under the present Administration poorer people cannot afford butter?

With the greatest respect to the hon. Gentleman, he cannot hold my right hon. Friend responsible for the fact that prolonged droughts in New Zealand and shortages of supplies in Denmark have caused an acute shortage of butter in Britain and, accordingly, high prices.

What will be the impact upon this trend of membership of the Community?

A very, very much smaller rate of increase spread over five years compared with what has been our lot as a result of weather conditions this year.

Having indulged in these excuses about people eating margarine instead of butter, can the hon. Gentleman indicate when he expects that the poorer end of the community, including old-age pensioners, will be called upon to eat dripping instead of margarine? If he does not know what dripping is, I will tell him.

I am perfectly well aware of what dripping is. What the hon. Gentleman is suggesting does not come within the remotest bounds of possibility.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what was the amount of imported butter held in the United Kingdom on 31st January, 1972, compared with the preceding 12 months.

Stock figures do not distinguish between imported and home-produced butter but the quantity of home-produced butter in store is usually small. On 31st January, 1972, total stocks in public cold stores in the United Kingdom were 39,300 tons. As the statement of stocks for the preceding 12 months is lengthy, I am circulating it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

I thank the Minister for those figures. Is he aware that there are strong rumours that stocks of butter, bacon, cheese and other commodities from the Commonwealth and our traditional sources of cheap supply are being stored in deep freeze, so that when the time comes a higher price for them can be charged to British consumers? Does the hon. Gentleman agree that this is a scandalous situation?

It would be a scandalous situation were it true; it is not.

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he has considered what steps can be taken to enable British manufacturers of potato flour to purchase home-grown potatoes at a price which enables them to compete with cheap imports from Canada; and if he will make a statement.

My right hon. Friend is at present considering, in consultation with all the interests concerned, whether it would be possible, consistently with the potato gurantee arrangements, to make supplies available for granule manufacture at more economic prices.

I welcome that reply. Would my hon. Friend indicate when he is likely to have completed his consultations, as this is now becoming a matter of urgency?

I appreciate the urgency. I can only say that we shall complete them as soon as possible, but this is a slightly complex subject.

Does my hon. Friend agree that it might not be in the interests of growers of good-quality potatoes for the produce and potato merchants to be bypassed in any future arrangement?

That is a point which will no doubt be taken into consideration.

asked the Prime Minister if he is satisfied with the statistical information available to his office: and if he will make a statement.

Yes, Sir. Statistical information is available as required either through the Central Statistical Office or direct from the appropriate Departments. Considerable improvements have been made in official statistics in recent years, and these are continuing.

Is the Prime Minister aware that the disablement statistics that he refused to my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent, South (Mr. Ashley) have now been made available by the Institute of Municipal Treasurers? Is it the Prime Minister's view that the I.M.T.'s figures are inaccurate? If so, would he say so now, if only because my hon. Friend will this afternoon be publishing the information which he and the House have been refused on this vitally important matter?

Yes. I will have a careful check made of the I.M.T.'s figures. I have explained to the House before—and certainly in the prolonged correspondence with the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, South (Mr. Ashley)—that these figures are not in any way comparable with each other because of the differences which exist between local authorities on registration. Some local authorities make funds available to the disabled whether or not they are registered. Others limit it to those who are registered. There are many resources which are made available whether or not disabled people are registered. Therefore, to provide a list in rank, as the Secretary of State and I were asked to do by the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent, South, is not justifiable; nor is it justifiable to pillory local authorities over statistics which are not soundly based. But my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has instituted a new statistical investigation so that we can endeavour to ascertain from local authorities the full basis of the help that they give to the disabled, and then it will be possible to make proper comparisons.

On statistical information, would my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister say how he gets his guidance on television audiences, and where they are situate? Is he aware that at 6.12 p.m. last Sunday my colour television set was blacked out; that a large number of my constituents living in the neighbourhood were denied the privilege of seeing and listening to my right hon. Friend, and that great distress is caused by this poor statistical guidance? My right hon. Friend must really do better next time.

That is a very ingenious supplementary question. If my hon. Friend had, after that power cut, switched on the alternative service at 10.15 p.m., he would have been able to see the programme, which I feel, personally, was better than that shown last night at 9.25 p.m., when no doubt his television was switched off.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that the questions he now refuses to answer were answered by his right hon. Friend to me 12 months ago? We have subsequently been told that these are misleading figures. I have never known misleading figures to have such a dramatic effect, because, as the right hon. Gentleman is no doubt aware, all the bad local authorities have done their best to improve their performance. Will he please now publish some more misleading figures for the sake of the disabled?

It was as a result of the publication of the figures to which the hon. Member refers that it was fully appreciated how unfair many of these figures were. I think the hon. Member will accept that a great deal of the improvement which has taken place among local authorities is the result of the action taken by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services and his Department, following the 1970 Act. But I repeat that my right hon. Friend has now instituted a fresh statistical survey in an endeavour to get fuller statistics which will be a proper basis for comparison

asked the Prime Minister if he will appoint an additional Minister of State at the Department of Health and Social Security.

No, Sir. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, with a Ministerial team of four, has achieved more in 20 months than his predecessor, with a team of five, in any 20 months of his period of office.

Is the Prime Minister aware that he is talking rubbish? Is he aware that there will be no effective attack on the problem of the chronically sick and disabled until there is a Minister responsible for co-ordinating policy on this matter? Is he also aware, for instance, that the operation of the Alf Morris Act involves at least 10 Government Departments whose work needs to be co-ordinated, and that the work is not even co-ordinated within the Department of Health and Social Security? As a result of this, for example, a constituent of mine who qualified for the new invalidity benefit found that as a result he was disqualified from receiving free prescriptions. Will the right hon. Gentleman therefore please take this matter seriously and make a co-ordinated attack on the problem of the chronically sick and disabled?

If the right hon. Lady has a constituency problem no doubt she will take it up with my right hon. Friend—

I cannot, my dear boy!

I am not the right hon. Lady's dear boy. Co-ordination of matters affecting the disabled is carried out by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, but it does not help to have one Minister solely responsible for their problems, for the very simple reason that the requirements of the disabled cover such a large number of—

Ten Government Departments.

Exactly, and to appoint a Minister outside the Department of Health and Social Security for that purpose would not achieve the result which the right hon. Lady and the rest of us want. On the other hand, she cannot deny that a great deal has been done for the disabled and that the 1970 Act has been pushed through vigorously by the Department. My right hon. Friend has also just announced considerable improvements to the invalid vehicle service which will affect about 10,000 people and is of the utmost importance.

asked the Prime Minister if he will invite the Prime Minister of New Zealand to pay an official visit to the United Kingdom.

Although there are at present no specific plans for him to come here, Mr. Marshall knows that he is always a welcome visitor to this country.

Is the Prime Minister aware that Mr. Marshall has recently made a most vigorous protest about the intolerable treatment handed out by Mr. Smith to the Todds. Does he not feel that he might copy Mr. Marshall's example and issue a similar protest in suitably tough and abrasive language pointing out that the way Mr. Smith is behaving towards the Todds and others is quite appalling, and is contrary to the feelings of people in this country?

That is a matter between the Prime Minister of New Zealand and Mr. Smith. Mr. Marshall very kindly sent me a copy of the letter which he was sending to Mr. Smith, which was a courtesy between two Prime Ministers of the Commonwealth, and no doubt Mr. Smith will reply to Mr. Marshall.

There is a point of confusion which should be resolved with New Zealand. It was announced in their Parliament that the interim agreement with the Community would be renegotiated by a majority decision, whereas it has been announced in this House that it would be by a unanimous decision. Which is the correct interpretation? If the right is given to one country to veto new negotiations and to bring an agreement to an end it could be fatal for the New Zealand economy.

There must be some misunderstanding by the hon. Gentleman. Mr. Marshall said:

"First, the decision is to be taken not on the continuity of our trade, which is assured by the Protocol, but on the exact quantities of New Zealand butter which can be sold under the special arrangements after 1977. Secondly, this decision must be taken unanimously."

asked the Prime Minister what changes he intends to make in the structure and personnel of the Central Policy Review Staff in the event of the accession of the United Kingdom to the European Economic Community Treaty of Rome.

The Central Policy Review Staff, like the rest of the administrative structure of Government, will adapt itself progressively to our membership of the European Economic Community.

Can the Prime Minister tell us whether anything to do with the Common Market has already been referred to the Central Policy Review Staff—for instance, the effects of entry on any parts of our economy—and can he assure us that, like the Rothschild Report, advice from this body to Ministers will be available to the House for discussion before it is discussed in the Council of Ministers?

There are certain aspects of the work of the C.P.R.S., for example, about research and development, on which it is possible to publish a report of the kind to which the hon. Gentleman referred. But of course the bulk of the C.P.R.S. work is of the same kind as that done by Government Departments and it is not customary to publish this either to the House or to Select Committees. As for the question of the European Community, since the decision of the House last October it has been quite natural for the C.P.R.S. to take into account in its reviews the situation when we become a member of the Community.

Will my right hon. Friend consider giving the Leader of the Opposition an opportunity to reveal in confidence to the Central Policy Review Staff what he has been so coy about revealing to the House or the nation, namely, the details of the scheme by which he would have joined the Communities without accepting Community law?

I do not think it needs the C.P.R.S. to consider that. The House can form its own judgment.

Can the Prime Minister say whether any agency of Government has attempted during the past year to assess the costs and benefits of our entry into the Common Market?

The Government White Paper dealt very fully with that whole matter.

asked the Prime Minister what discussion of proposals for closer co-ordination of European economic policies he had in his recent talks with M. Pompidou.

As I explained to the House last Tuesday, these talks had to be postponed, but I am in touch with President Pompidou about another date for our meeting.

When the Prime Minister meets the French President, bearing in mind current moves in the Community to narrow exchange rate margins will he make it quite clear to M. Pompidou that there will be no question of this country giving up its right to change its fundamental parities where there are adjustments of some magnitude to be made in the balance of payments?

One of the prominent matters to be discussed at our meeting will be monetary developments not only in Europe but in the wider international context. I had better wait to hear President Pompidou's views. But the hon. Member will realise that there is a difference between the narrowing of margins and the right to change the exchange parity.

Will the Prime Minister point out to M. Pompidou that the security of Europe and of Britain depends absolutely on the continuance of the American alliance, and that if that alliance is to continue there will have to be a different attitude towards America?

It has always been the position of France that she remained a member of the Atlantic alliance. What she did not support was the organisation and this I believe still to be the position.

When my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister sees the French President will he explain that there are still many Labour Members who support our European policy and that the reason they voted against it the other day was purely political?

I think that President Pompidou is well informed on these matters.

asked the Prime Minister how many times he has met representatives of the Trades Union Congress in the past 12 months.

Eight, Sir, apart from meetings at the National Economic Development Council and on informal occasions.

Is the Prime Minister aware that there is at least the glimmer of suspicion abroad that he and his Government do not quite understand the feelings and aspirations of ordinary people? I would not expect him to have any very close contact with those feelings and aspirations, but does he not think that the time has come when he must hammer out with their representatives in the T.U.C. a formal incomes policy which will ensure that we do not have increases over all occupations of 40 per cent. over two-and-a-half years while school teachers and male nurses get 15 per cent.?

I know that one of the aspirations of ordinary people in this country is that inflation should be stopped. That is basic to what they want, and that is what the Government are trying to achieve. Nor do I think, from my knowledge of ordinary people, that they regard the T.U.C. as their only spokesman. On the other hand, I made absolutely clear just after we came into office, when I met the General Secretary of the T.U.C., that we wanted close relations with it. I was always prepared to meet its representatives personally, and so were other Ministers; and the fact that I have had eight meetings with the T.U.C. over the last year, which is a considerable number for any single organisation, is evidence of our relationship. But I repeat that we are prepared to make that relationship as close as the T.U.C. is prepared to operate.

When my right hon. Friend next meets the T.U.C. will he seek its co-operation in suppressing violence in industrial disputes, and its co-operation with the police in suppressing such violence?

Yes, Sir. I am perfectly prepared to discuss that and a wide range of other questions with the T.U.C.

Is the Prime Minister aware that the T.U.C. has turned down his overtures about the introduction of a voluntary incomes policy, because he has made it clear on more than one occasion that he wants to talk about wage restraint, whereas what the T.U.C. wants to talk about is those areas of low wages that the Prime Minister knows about, such as agricultural workers? Is he now saying that he is prepared to discuss with the T.U.C. the raising of wages in many parts of the economy where workers are receiving low incomes?

I have never placed any limitation on discussions with the T.U.C., and it knows that full well. If it wishes to discuss any subjects, it can do so. On the last occasion when I met the General Council at No. 10 at the end of last year, it raised wide issues of policy that it wanted to have considered, and I gave it a full undertaking that we would consider them. What is more, if the hon. Gentleman is prepared to be fair and look back over the past 18 months and see the items of policy for which the T.U.C. has pressed—the increase in pensions, the annual review, the repayment of post-war credits and reflationary measures—he will see that these have all been met by the Government, and it is only right that we should expect some response from the trade unions and the T.U.C.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I never seek more than a fair share of my time on the Floor of the House, but since the Prime Minister and my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Wythenshawe (Mr. Alfred Morris) have been discussing correspondence between the Prime Minister and myself, and the Prime Minister wrongly, though in good faith, interpreted the figures in that correspondence, would you allow me to put a question to the Prime Minister?

Much as I should like to, I cannot; the moment has gone.