asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received in regard to the college for the fishing industry proposed in Aberdeen; and if he will make a statement.

None, but my right hon. Friend is now studying Aberdeen Education Authority's plans for the centre for fishing courses.

While I express my sympathy over the collapse of the present proposals for the college in Aberdeen, may I ask whether my hon. Friend is aware that we are always told that there is plenty of provision available in Aberdeen for radar observers' courses, yet my constituents usually have to wait an average of three months or travel elsewhere in Scotland? Will my hon. Friend hasten to provide some of the available equipment in Fraserburgh to meet the needs of the largest industry in the area?

I appreciate my hon. Friend's interest in the Buchan Technical College and the fishing industry, but if he is referring to the fishing education centre at Aberdeen I have already said that proposals are now with my Department. On the availability on places in Aberdeen for the radar observers' courses, I shall reply to my hon. Friend shortly.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he will be able to provide Members of Parliament with information about the electoral boundaries within the future West Regional Council and North Ayrshire District Council, respectively; and if he will make a statement.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will publish in the Official Report the up-to-date revised proposals in respect of the number of elected representatives on the proposed new South-East Regional Council and the Dunfermline District Council, respectively.

Copies of the documents which were recently issued have been placed in the Library. In relation to electoral boundaries I must emphasise that these provide simply a starting point for local consultations prior to the preparation of substantive proposals: they are not the considered views of my right hon. Friend.

Was it just a coincidence that the information was supplied to the Library after the Questions were submitted? Is it not about time that we in Parliament, who will take the final decision on the reform of local government in Scotland, had a say in the proposal put forward in the White Paper on that reform?

There is no question of coincidence. The preparations have been going on for a long time, as have consultations with the local authorities involved. With the deepest respect to the hon. Gentleman, while of course Parliament has the right to consider these matters, many local people are involved.

Does the Minister agree that there is some confusion, even among councillors, about draft proposals of this kind and that councillors as well as Members of Parliament should be completely informed about any draft proposals coming forward?

These are not draft proposals in the technical sense but are purely a starting point for discussion. Copies of them and a very full covering letter have gone to the clerks of every city, county and district council in Scotland. If there is any doubt, I suggest that councillors who may be confused get in touch with their clerk and they will obtain more details.

Does my hon. Friend agree that the proposals for Glasgow in particular contain wide variations in the average numbers in the various wards? Will he give an assurance that he will be open to representations from the local authorities and others on the proposals?

What has been produced at this stage is simply a starting point for discussions. We now hope to enter into consultations with the local authorities, and others may make their representations. The matter will then go to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, who will be advised by an independent advisory committee, to be set up shortly, before the stage is reached when draft proposals are published. After they are published it will be possible for formal representations to be made in the normal way. We are now at the very earliest stage on local government electoral boundaries.

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that the document in the Library is headed "Draft proposals"? Is it not a gross discourtesy to hon. Members that we have individually to obtain photo-copies of proposals affecting our constituents when they should have been sent to us as a matter of courtesy at the same time as they were sent to local authorities?

A very large number of different areas are involved—1,550—and in many cases the new local boundaries do not necessarily coincide with parliamentary constituencies. No discourtesy is intended to any hon. Member. If there is a better way in which the matter can be dealt with, I am prepared to consider it.

Does the Minister realise that this is a matter of very great importance to every hon. Member, including himself, and that hon. Members as much as anyone else must be allowed to see the proposals at this early stage? I hope there is no disagreement about that. Therefore, will the hon. Gentleman seek to improve the means whereby the papers are made available to hon. Members? My second point is directed more to the Secretary of State. We have had two major statements and numerous alterations as a result of prior discussions. Unlike our English colleagues, who had two days' debate on the Floor of the House before the English Bill was introduced, we have had no debate. May we have an assurance that we shall have at least one day's debate on the Floor of the House, if not two days, to discuss the proposals before we have legislation next year?

I assure the hon. Gentleman that I as much as any one else want to ensure that what is available is readily available also to hon. Members. That is why we made these proposals available in the Library. I may say that in the week since they were made available only one hon. Member has been in touch with me regarding a a certain difficulty. I hope that in his case I was able to deal with it. The hon. Gentleman asked about a debate. He must remember that the Opposition were offered a debate in the Scottish Grand Committee last year and that—

Order. We cannot have a debate at Question time.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what action he is proposing to take to bring the wards and facilities at Stobhill Hospital up to the modern standards of the new wards, &c, of Falkirk Royal Infirmary.

The modernisation programme at the hospital is continuing and a major ward improvement scheme will start within the next two years.

In appreciating and thanking the hon. Gentleman for that answer, as one who has had practical experience of being a patient in this hospital I want to pay the highest possible tribute to the staff there. I think that the wards leave very much to be desired, however, and I hope that these efforts will be put in hand more or less immediately.

I share the praise which the hon. Gentleman has for the staff of this fine hospital. Over the next five or six phases of the hospital building programme we hope to spend about £1 million on ward improvements there.

I am obliged.

While accepting that the new wards of Falkirk Royal Infirmary are of the high standard described by my hon. Friend the Member for West Stirlingshire (Mr. W. Baxter), may I ask whether there is not room for considerable improvement, particularly in the maternity facilities?

As the hon. Gentleman knows, the ward mentioned by the hon. Member for West Stirlingshire is a new one and we appreciate that it is exceptional. I will look at the other point mentioned by the hon. Gentleman.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what schemes submitted to him involving fee paying in local authority schools he has approved this year.

As my right hon. Friend told the hon. Member on 2nd February, Edinburgh Corporation's modification of its scheme of educational provision is under consideration. No scheme has been approved in 1972.—[Vol. 830, c. 113.]

I am glad to hear that no scheme has been approved and I hope that the hon. Gentleman will keep it that way. There are two applications, one for the restoration of fee-paying selectivity and the other to abolish selectivity. If, after all the promises in the Tory manifesto about the freedom of local authorities, the Government allow one scheme to be accepted and the other to be turned down, will not this be seen by the people of Scotland as a pledge by the Government to create reaction in education?

I cannot accept anything of that. Both schemes are under consideration and until my right hon. Friend has come to a decision I propose to say no more about them.

Does not my hon. Friend agree that none of these excellent schools should be abolished until schools of equal excellence are provided in the local non-fee-paying sector?

I thank my hon. Friend for making that point and it will be borne in mind in the careful consideration which my right hon. Friend and I are giving to the matter.

Last year the Secretary of State put through an Act of Parliament to give full discretion in these two local authorities. May I ask him, therefore, not to be pressurised and bullied into abuse of his legislative powers just because he objects to a political principle?

No right hon. or hon. Member from Scotland is less likely to be bullied or pressurised than my right hon. Friend.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement about the future of local authority fee-paying schools in Scotland in the light of recent representations.

There are at present no local authority fee-paying schools in Scotland, but my right hon. Friend has at present under consideration one proposal from an education authority to restore fee paying.

Does my hon. Friend agree that there are many former fee-paying schools in Scotland? Will he protect the variety and excellence which we need in Scottish education and preserve choice for the children of parents who are not well off? Will he also assure the House that he will postpone any final decision about the future of these schools until the structure of local government in Scotland is reformed?

As I said earlier this afternoon, I must not give a view on proposals which are currently before us. My right hon. Friend is considering them and will make an announcement as soon as possible in the interests of children and their parents.

Will the hon. Gentleman concede that, on the basis of his reply to his hon. Friend the Member for Perth and East Perthshire (Mr. MacArthur), there is no demand for fee-paying schools in Scotland, and will he take the lead which we gave when we were in power and depart from fee-paying schools as is done in England and Wales?

What the present Government have given, which the Labour Government would not give, is freedom of choice. These matters are under careful consideration and my right hon. Friend will make an announcement in due course.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what further initiatives he intends taking with regard to industry and the local authorities in Scotland after the conference at Aviemore on North Sea oil.

As agreed at his meeting on 14th February, my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Development has established a standing conference of local authorities, oil companies and others to keep under review all aspects of the North Sea oil developments. The secretariat of the conference is already dealing with queries.

Has the right hon. Gentleman noted the remonstrance given to British industry by Mr. Tapper, the chief exploration engineer of Shell, who says that many British industrialists are likely to miss the boat in terms of getting the maximum benefit for British industry from the North Sea strike? What does the right hon. Gentleman intend doing about that?

I have seen the reports in the Press today of what was stated by a spokesman of Shell. I and the bodies concerned in Scotland, such as the Scottish Council, are doing all we can to draw the attention of Scottish trade and industry to all the opportunities for goods and services that arise.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree, in view of the fact that the first instalment of the oil to come ashore came through Japanese pipes, that there is need for some means of manufacturing pipes for later oil to come ashore and to ensure that they are manufactured in Scotland?

I understand that the type of pipe required, which is for under-sea operation, can only be manufactured and made available in time in Japan, but I am glad to note that the land pipe contract has gone to the British Steel Corporation and that the manufacture is to be undertaken in Scotland.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that an initiative which is at the Government's hand to take and which would be widely welcomed might be the location in Scotland of the petroleum division of the Board of Trade?

I note that suggestion.

No doubt the right hon. Gentleman heard the exchanges yesterday with the Prime Minister on this matter. What attitude is the right hon. Gentleman adopting towards the reassessment of refining capacity in Scotland, particularly in the light of the possibility of there being oil to the north and west of our country as well as in the North Sea?

As the hon. Gentleman has pointed out, this is a continuously changing and developing situation. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said yesterday that it is a very important question. It is indeed important and also complicated and it is being looked into by the Government with all the others concerned.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he has yet given further consideration to the proposal for a development authority for Scotland, made at the conference, Oil and Scotland's Future, organised by the Scottish Council for Development and Industry; and if he will make a statement.

This is one of a number of such proposals which are being considered by the Government.

Will the right hon. Gentleman take into careful account the widespread agreement throughout Scotland that some way has to be found whereby a proportion of the money derived from oil in Scottish waters is reinvested in Scottish industry?

There is general agreement that this newly found wealth should be used for the benefit of Scotland, not that it is necessary to relate oil revenues directly to work in Scotland, especially as the oil is not expected to flow for at least two years. But suggestions which have been put forward and discussed with the Government are conflicting in themselves in that there are different ideas of the nature and rôle of any new body.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many applications have been received to date for house improvement grants in the Lanarkshire County Council area.

Up to the end of 1971 grants had been approved covering about 3,000 houses. I am asking the county council to write to the hon. Gentleman about numbers of applications.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that my information is that most of these applications are coming from owner-occupiers? Is he satisfied that enough landlords are endeavouring to do what they should be doing—bringing houses up to tolerable standards? If they are not, will he ensure that plenty of publicity is given to it?

I agree about the importance of publicity. The hon. Gentleman will recall that the Scottish Office mounted its biggest ever publicity campaign on this matter last year. The proportions of the figures I have given are about 1,200 private houses and 1,800 public sector houses, of which about 1,500 are owned by county councils and about 300 by the Scottish Special Housing Association. I agree that we should do all we can to encourage more private owners to improve their houses.

Will my hon. Friend look into the case of a number of authorities in Central Scotland which refuse to give housing improvement grants, and see whether he can make the grants mandatory?

I would be reluctant at this stage to make them mandatory, as a lot of local conditions have to be taken into account in assessing whether grants should be undertaken. I agree that it is a great pity that some local authorities are reluctant to make the grants but I think that this practice is gradually getting less and less.

Has the hon. Gentleman any idea of the average amount of money spent on these houses?

Not without notice.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the general state of the generating capacity of power stations now that the miners' strike is over; and what plans he has to convert existing coal-fired power stations to other forms of fuelling.

I understand from the boards that the generating capacity of Scottish power stations is now at its normal level but that some further additions to fuel stocks are desirable.

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that if the policy of conversion from coal to oil is pursued jobs in the mining industry, engineering and other consumer industries will be at stake? Will he look at the article in today's Scotsman which states that our oil consumption is greater than the present finds? Will he bear in mind that Scotland cannot take the further unemployment which would result from conversion to oil?

I assure the hon. Gentleman that these and all the other factors will be carefully considered before a decision is taken. The history of the reactions of the Government to requests for conversion shows that our attitude is perfectly fair and we do not take these decisions lightly.

Will the Minister give an assurance that the consideration of the Government is confined only to conversion at Portobello? Have the Government yet received the Vinter Report in respect of the proposed nuclear station at Stake Ness? If so, when are we likely to get a statement on policy?

I confirm that the only application my right hon. Friend has in front of him at the moment is the Portobello application. I think the right hon. Gentleman will agree that before a decision on Stake Ness is taken we must have before us a complete study of future fuelling policy. The study is taking longer than was expected but is being pressed forward as quickly as possible.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will expand the programme of vocational training for adult prisoners in Scotland so that more than the 36 adult prisoners presently receiving such training can participate.

An expanded and more varied programme of training of all kinds will be provided as suitable facilities become available in the course of the development of the prison building programme.

Does not the Minister agree that it is a disgraceful comment on our community that only 36 out of all the adult prisoners in Scottish prisons are currently receiving vocational training? Is not one of the most important objectives of his Department to increase that number many times to bring it to a level acceptable to a civilised nation?

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's interest in this subject but he must see it in perspective. Vocational training is not the only training that is done in prisons; there is also general training. The hon. Gentleman must remember that we run into considerable difficulty with vocational training in getting general acceptance by the trade unions of those who have been trained.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he will reconsider his decision to raise the speed limit on the A78 between Ardrossan and Stevenston.

I have considered very carefully the conditions on this road, but my view is that a 40 m.p.h. limit on the length of road in question will be more generally observed and thus more effective in contributing to safety.

Does not my hon. Friend realise that public opinion locally is dead against this speed increase? Why does he brush aside their objections simply to satisfy a lot of speed fiends from out with the area, probably from his own constituency? Does he not realise the risks involved in increasing the speed limit on a road which runs through a residential area and is constantly crossed by old people and school-children? How many more accidents is my hon. Friend waiting for before he will listen to what the local people say?

I hope my hon. Friend was not referring to the right hon. Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross) or myself when he spoke of speed fiends. I well appreciate the feelings of the local people and, as my hon. Friend will know, one does have to bear in mind the statistics and the conditions under which the speed limit will operate. In the last three years there has been only one accident in which speed was a contributory factor, and that accident did not involve a pedestrian. I assure my hon. Friend that in the light of experience after a year I shall look at the results and reconsider the matter.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether, as a means of alleviating unemployment, he will allocate additional and immediate financial resources to regional hospital boards for minor works programmes.

The current special works programme includes £5 million for additional Health Service works in Scotland, of which £3·8 million has been allocated to regional hospital boards.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say what is the difference between the requests made by the regional hospital boards and the allocation? Has an estimate been made of the number of building trade workers for whom those minor works will provide jobs?

I cannot without notice give the hon. Gentleman a precise answer to the first part of his question. In general, the major part of the applications which have come in for work have been accepted and have become part of the special programme. It is almost impossible to make an estimate, certainly a precise one, of the number of people who will either retain jobs or get extra work.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is satisfied that local authorities have been given sufficient time to discuss the contents and reply to letter reference B/LGR/3 dated 15th February on the reorganisation of local government; and if he will make a state ment.

Yes, Sir.

Does the Under-Secretary of State accept that there appears to be a misunderstanding about the dates by which local authorities have to reply to the circular? The copy in the Library bears a date towards the end of April whereas the date on the copy which has been sent to local authorities is 31st March. This may mean that some local authorities will be able to have only one meeting to discuss the circular while others are able to have two meetings. Would not an extension to the end of April be advisable?

If the hon. Gentleman has an example of specific confusion about this, I shall be glad to look into it. It is quite clearly stated that in the West Region we hope to have representations by the end of April and in the other areas by the end of March. We are embarking on a very big and complicated operation. Unfortunately, although legislation is still some time ahead, the timetable is relatively short.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many persons have died of lung cancer in Scotland in each of the last five years; and, on the basis of figures available from international sources, how these figures compare with other Western European countries.

Deaths in Scotland from cancer of the trachea, bronchus and lung in each of the years 1966 to 1970 numbered 3,022, 3,145, 3,197, 3,277 and 3,443, respectively.

Have the medical authorities given any reasons for this distressing and unparalleled death rate in Scotland from cancer? Will the Under-secretary of State give the House an assurance that finance will be no obstacle in prosecuting the campaign against this killer disease? Will he say to what extent, if any, Scotland will benefit from the cancer research campaigns outside this country?

I cannot give any specific reason, but the figure is marginally higher than in England and Wales. We are doing all we can in the preventive field. Cash is not unlimited but is substantial. My Department's Health Education Unit was one of the first to use television, and at least £40,000 will be spent this year on television material. In reply to the second part of the question, the Director of the Scottish Health Education Unit has visited the United States and research done in other countries is constantly being studied.

Will my hon. Friend say whether a further study of these terrible figures is likely to show any geographical difference in the incidence of respiratory cancer?

I cannot say that this will be so. A great deal of research is going on, but whether it will show up specific differences between East and West Scotland I cannot say.

Will the Minister confirm that the amount of money spent on the campaign directed at the younger generation against smoking will be increased? The figures are so shocking that extra money should be given by the Government for this purpose and the campaign directed at school children should be intensified.

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his comments. The more publicity hon. Members give to these figures, the better the results we can expect. I assure the hon. Gentleman that at least the Scottish Office Ministers are all non-smokers and are likely to be long-lived.

I applaud the excellent example set by the Scottish Ministers, but do not these appalling figures demonstrate graphically the in-ineffectualness of the Government's policy on smoking and health? Had the Government adopted the Tobacco (Health Hazards) Bill making it legislatively necessary to take stern action against smoking, these figures could have shown some abatement.

I appreciate what my hon. Friend has done to publicise the terrible dangers but I think he will realise that, however much the dangers of smoking are publicised, if people wish to smoke there is very little we can do to stop them.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what representations he has received regarding this year's Agricultural Price Review.

Only from the Scottish Milk Marketing Board.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there has been a certain amount of grass roots resentment at the slashing cuts made in fertiliser subsidy? Does he feel that the review is sufficiently generous to farmers to enable farmworkers to obtain substantial increases in their wages?

The hon. Gentleman will recognise that this review has been accepted by the office bearers of the Scottish N.F.U. as a basis on which the industry can make progress. I believe it has been generally welcomed.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what expansion of the dairying industry he expects as a result of the Price Review.

I am confident that the increase in the milk guarantee, together with the increase for beef, will provide the industry with the necessary resources for expansion.

Was the prevalence of mastitis taken into account in the Price Review? As my hon. Friend is busy eradicating brucellosis, should not something be done about mastitis, which, is causing such serious losses of production in Scottish dairy herds?

I do not think that the specific disease of mastitis was taken into account in the review but it is certainly a disease which causes a lot of trouble in the dairy industry. It is in the interests of individual herd-owners to eradicate the disease. If they do, it is to their financial benefit.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what arrangements he has made to meet the Standing Commission of the Scottish Assembly.

I shall be with my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister when he meets the commission on 27th March.

Does the right hon. Gentleman regard as sensible and reasonable the charter of demands approved by the Scottish Assembly?

The standing commission has only just been composed and we do not yet know what that commission will put forward. I have been kept closely informed and I understand that it is still considering its proposals for the meeting on 27th March.

But how will the right hon. Gentleman and the Prime Minister explain to the commission why the Secretary of State for Scotland has sat idly by and watched the Scottish Gas Board destroyed while a Gas Corporation has taken its place? How will he justify the fact that this power and right is being taken from the Scottish people?

I regard this not as taking away any right from the Scottish people but as an advance, matching the fact that gas is now coming from the North Sea and is being distributed and is not being manufactured in the way in which it has in the past. Therefore, this is a recognition of change and modernisation.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland when he intends to introduce legislation to create a Scottish Assembly.

Proposals on constitutional reform are intended during this Parliament and will precede any legislation on that subject.

Is the Secretary of State aware that we have waited a long time for these proposals and, since the reform of local government envisages no change in the distribution of power from central to local government, surely there is no need to wait for those proposals to be put forward? The Scottish T.U.C. assembly made it clear that there was great agitation for a louder voice in Scotland, and if we go into the Common Market this will be all the more necessary.

I know the hon. Gentleman's interest in this topic, but I would ask him to read again the report of the constitutional committee presided over by my right hon. Friend. He will find in paragraph 322 a recommendation that constitutional developments should follow the action being taken on reform of local government. Reference to the Wheatley Commission's proposals was made in that document so that the committee knew roughly what was proposed in the reform of local government as between central and local government.

Will my right hon. Friend allow me to congratulate him on his great wisdom in taking one step at a time?

My hon. Friend, and indeed all hon. Members present judging from the way in which earlier questions have been dealt with this afternoon, will know the enormous size of the task of my Department in carrying through the massive operation of local government reform.

Will the right hon. Gentleman accept from me that there are a great many of us who regard the notion of a Scottish Assembly as a load of rubbish? If there is any suggestion of any Scottish legislation on this matter in the course of this Parliament, we would much rather the Secretary of State got his priorities the right way round and concerned himself with employment and matters of that kind.

I am well aware of the differing views on this matter. This is why the Government intend first to put forward proposals for discussion.

May we get the right hon. Gentleman's answer quite clear? As I understand his answer—he may have missed out a line in his reply—he said that this proposal would follow the legislation on reform of local government. Since we understand that will take place in the next Session, and since the elections for new local government will be in May, 1974, I take it that this matter will be dealt with in the very short Session 1974–75—if the present Parliament lasts that long.

I know that the hon. Gentleman has been ill, and I am glad to see him back, but I would offer the suggestion that he needs to have his ears looked at. My reply was characteristically short and to the point. I was asked about legislation, but we have stated that we shall produce these proposals in this Parliament, not in this Session.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many applications he has now had from local authorities wishing to take advantage of the scheme whereby the Government have allocated £1 million for urban renovation; and if he will make a statement.

A total of 15 applications for grant have been received from local authorities, of which one has already been approved. The total grant represented by these applications is £194,200.

Does all the money look like being taken up?

Since this scheme was first announced only on 7th February, and in view of the fact that we have already made progress, I am certain that local authorities will come forward and take up the full allocation of £1 million.

Are the local authorities working on urban renewal in association with such bodies as the Scottish Civic Trust?

The Scottish Civic Trust has many links with local authorities, but this particular scheme involves small environmental improvement work with a particular bent towards improving the attractions for incoming industry. Although the Civic Trust might be consulted on a particular matter, I would not regard this scheme as a matter in which that body would necessarily be involved.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what are his up-to-date plans for the provision of a new general hospital for Dunfermline and West Fife; and if he will make a statement.

A proposal by the South-Eastern Regional Hospital Board for the provision of a new district general hospital for West Fife is being considered along with other schemes proposed by all regional hospital boards in connection with an extension of the major hospital building programmes. I expect to make an announcement this spring.

I thank the Minister for that reply. Does he recall his visit to Dunfermline Hospital last year when he was impressed by the efficiency of the medical and nursing staff under the difficult physical conditions under which they were operating? I hope that the proposal in his reply will be included in the programme for after 1971–72.

I am grateful for what the hon. Gentleman has said. I was impressed by the staff and I appreciate the conditions in which they are working. I would not want the hon. Gentleman to take from what I have said that there is a firm commitment—far from it. We have to consider all the proposals together.

Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that this part of Scotland has probably been harder hit by pit closures and the economic revolution which has taken place in the last 10 or 20 years than has probably any other part of the country? Therefore, does he not regard it as imperative, in view of the present deplorable circumstances in the West Fife Hospital, that that hospital should be given a higher place on the priority list of hospital building?

I appreciate what the hon. Gentleman said about pit closures, but if he will wait for a matter of weeks we shall be able to announce the new programme and we shall be able to see whether West Fife is successful.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the establishment of the police force in Scotland; and what is its present strength.

At 31st December last the total authorised regular establishment of the police forces in Scotland was 11,403 and the actual strength was 10,811.

In view of the ever-pressing duties performed by the police to combat crime and to deal with the rising number of motor cars, and also bearing in mind the stress put on the police during the recent coal strike, does my hon. Friend agree that it is time to review the strength of the police force and indeed to upgrade it?

When we came to office the establishments of the police forces in Scotland were frozen. We shortly announced that we were to carry out a review and that review is now progressing. I am glad to say that in terms of establishment and manpower the police force in Scotland is at present at a record level.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the total amount of interest paid by Kirkcaldy Town Council on its outstanding housing debt for the financial year 1970–71.

The amount of interest paid on the housing revenue account was £1,237,000.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, at the same time, only about £226,000 of principal was repaid? In view of that, will he do a great service to all the people of Scotland by withdrawing the infamous Housing Bill and substituting a new one designed to remove this monstrous burden from the pockets of tenants of houses in Scotland? Is he aware that last year Scottish councils paid something like £87 million in interest? Will he consider my suggestion, therefore, and scrap the Bill?

The hon. Gentleman's remarks do not accord with the facts as they have occurred. The situation described in my original answer is due to the present system of housing finance, unchanged by the Bill currently being considered. The hon. Gentleman will know that interest rates have gone up in recent years. About half the rise in the case of Kirkcaldy is due to increasing interest rates. The other half is due to extra house building. The new housing subsidy scheme allows the cost of interest to be included in the housing expenditure subsidy, and this will insulate authorities from the effect of rapidly rising costs.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the position of the selective schools in Glasgow.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the future of selective schools in Glasgow.

My right hon. Friend has received and is considering Glasgow Education Authority's proposals for reorganisation of these schools. He will write to the authority as soon as he is able to do so. In the meantime I cannot make any statement.

Will my hon. Friend confirm that the freedom of local authorities to reorganise their secondary education is subject to their producing educationally sound schemes and having prior con- sultation with parents and teachers? As the Glasgow scheme is an educational monstrosity designed to rush through changes before local government reform at the expense of first and second-year pupils, and as consultation with parents and teachers has been an inadequate farce, will my hon. Friend reject these savage plans?

I appreciate my hon. Friend's interest in the Glasgow schools. The answer to the first part of his question is "Yes". On the second part of his question it would be wrong for me to comment before I have considered the authority's proposals.

Is my hon. Friend aware of the acute interest that the proposal to butcher these fine schools is causing to countless parents who fear for their freedom of choice? To a Conservative, which I imagine my hon. Friend is, does not that mean keeping what is good? Why sacrifice these good schools on the altar of unproved comprehensiveness? When there are so many lame ducks about, surely the last thing to do is to guillotine one of Scotland's few remaining golden geese.

I appreciate my hon. Friend's active interest in the Glasgow schools. Hon. Members may be interested to know the number of communications that my right hon. Friend has received to date. There have been 5,692 separate letters and telegrams, and petitions containing 45,000 signatures. Only 21 of the letters have been in favour of the proposals. This is exclusive to the poll taken by the Scottish Daily Express, which resulted in figures of 10,456 against and only 298 for the proposals. It would be wrong for me to express an opinion on the proposals until we have considered them.

Is not the hon. Gentleman showing his hand already by keeping up this pretence of genuine impartiality while assisting the propaganda efforts of his friends? Does not the hon. Gentleman recall in Committee upstairs hearing ad nauseamday and night from the hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward Taylor) that the purpose of his party was to give freedom to local authorities to reorganise their secondary education? As soon as that freedom is exercised in a way that the hon. Member for Cathcart does not approve of, he eats his words.

The hon. Gentleman can sound off as loudly as he likes. I will not comment until we have considered the proposals.

The hon. Gentleman should realise the seriousness of what he has said. The content of his previous answer was leading up to a rejection. Clearly a rejection would be based upon political principles. The measures which have been forced upon him or suggested to him by the hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward Taylor) have nothing to do with the present scheme. These demands were coming up before the scheme was published. It is wrong for the Minister to try to rely upon the Daily Express when, out of 2 million petition forms sent out, only 10,000 were returned, which represents 0·5 per cent. support for the suggestions coming in.

The hon. Gentleman is wrong. My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Hillhead (Mr. Galbraith) indicated that there was strong support for his point of view. I gave him the figures that he wished to know—

Hillhead?

Yes, Hillhead; an equally important constituency as Kilmarnock. All hon. Members opposite must await my right hon. Friend's decision.

When my hon. Friend is making his careful study, will he bear in mind that a great many of us believe that the proposals which he has received are educationally crazy? Will he throw out these short-sighted proposals until an early decision can be considered in a balanced way by the new structure of local government in the west of Scotland?

All the relevant facts will be taken into careful consideration while we are dealing with these proposals. Until my right hon. Friend has made a decision, I am not prepared to say more.

Can the hon. Gentleman tell us whether these schools are privately or publicly owned?

The hon. Gentleman has been involved with Glasgow for a long time and will certainly know the answer.

Does the Under-Secretary?

Let someone tell him.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he is now prepared to issue a code of practice for the guidance of local authorities for the issue of certificates for free school milk to pupils over seven years of age, in view of the latest evidence relating to the position in Aberdeen.

No, Sir. The decision whether a pupil's health requires that he should be provided with milk at school must depend on the clinical judgment of the medical officer. It would not be appropriate for me to attempt to influence that judgment and I would strongly deprecate any attempt by others to do so.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are two extreme examples in Aberdeen of the provision of milk: one is no child out of 632 pupils; the other is 321 out of 331 pupils? There are wide variations in between, a typical example being 90 out of 670. Do not figures of this sort show that a very difficult situation is arising and that the position of the medical officer of health is intolerable in having to try to make a proper assessment of all pupils in the city? Is not it time that the right hon. Gentleman issued clear guidance to local authorities in respect of medical examinations and the factors which may be taken into account? Clearly the whole concept is a monstrosity in that no equality of provision is being made.

Clearly there must be some variation between various groups of children. But the position of medical officers is not intolerable, provided that it is left to their professional judgment to take these decisions.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many dwelling houses in the City of Glasgow are scheduled for demolition; what is the annual rate of demolition; and what proportion of the cost is being met by Her Majesty's Government.

As houses are scheduled for demolition for a variety of reasons, and demolition costs may attract Government assistance in various ways, I do not have comprehensive information about numbers or grants. About 8,400 houses were closed or demolished in Glasgow during 1970 and about 7,400 in the first nine months of 1971.

The Minister will be aware that Glasgow, having been the industrial heart of Scotland, has a need to attract industry but that the sight of derelict tenements all over the city gives it a dilapidated and rundown appearance. Will he use his influence to speed up the demolition of such derelict tenements and take whatever financial measures are necessary to relieve Glasgow Corporation of the undoubtedly high costs of such demolition?

I am very much in sympathy with what the hon. Gentleman has said about the effect of derelict tenements on people who may be coming to look at Glasgow as a location for industry. There are various ways in which the Government help with demolition costs—through the planning redevelopment grant, housing subsidies and the rate support grant. The hon. Gentleman may be aware that we are introducing in the Housing (Financial Provisions) (Scotland) Bill, currently in Committee, an entirely new slum clearance subsidy which will give a special new grant to local authorities for the costs of demolition.

Is the Minister aware that in his last figure he gave the number of closures and demolitions together? The reason for that answer being given is that the crazy procedure leading to demolition in Glasgow is costing Glasgow a fortune. First, the medical officer of health has a closing order—

Order. Is the hon. Member giving information or seeking it?

I am trying to point out the procedure which is holding back demolition, Mr. Speaker. Is the Minister aware that the procedures holding back the demolition are that the closing order by the medical officer of health and the demolition order do not go together? Is he further aware that in one area we find workmen coming in and demolish- ing one close of a huge tenement building and leaving the rest? Is he still further aware that the city engineer has an immediate danger list and a long-term danger list and that, there again, workmen come in and take down one close but leave the other dangerous building?

I am aware that there are complications about demolition, particularly in a large city. But there are now strong incentives for local authorities to get on with demolition. As the rules are well known to the local authority officials involved, I am confident that they will get a lot of work done in this sphere in the coming year.

Will my hon. Friend take careful note of what was said by the hon. Member for Glasgow, Central (Mr. Tom McMillan)? Is it not the case that demolitions are taking place and that not nearly enough rebuilding is going on? Should we not use the house improvement scheme much more for buildings which have a life of 10 to 20 years and not simply pull them down?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making the point that demolition is by no means the only answer. The increased rate of improvement grant will undoubtedly encourage local authorities to improve those houses which can be improved and provide good houses for people at less cost than new houses, in areas where they have lived and want to live for many years.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what further discussions he has had with the South of Scotland Electricity Board regarding their policy on customers' arrears and the demanding of security deposits.

These are matters of commercial management which are primarily for the board, but a meeting is soon to be arranged between the board and other bodies concerned.

Have not the Government some responsibility in this matter? Could they not at least put pressure or bring their influence to bear on the South of Scotland Electricity Board? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is widespread feeling among directors of social work that the way in which the electricity board deals with these matters is insensitive and unfair and that it ought to be changed?

I assure the hon. Gentleman that the board is extremely well aware of the need to contact social work departments closely and frequently and that it has done a lot of contacting recently. The meeting to which I referred in my answer will be with the Association of Directors of Social Work and the Department of Health and Social Security. I am sure that this will lead to a better understanding on both sides of a way in which this distasteful business can be dealt with as painlessly as possible.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there is a great deal of frustration among social workers at the time they have to take in dealing with what I agree is a commercial problem? If the Government could take it up at their level and reinforce the directors of social work when they meet the electricity board, it would be of great help to professional social workers who spend so much time on these matters.

I appreciate the problems. We would probably be well advised to await the results of the meeting to see whether the parties concerned can reach agreement. It is also worth noticing that this practice has been considered and approved by the Electricity Consultative Council which has a special responsibility to look after the interests of consumers. In the interests of all consumers, I think that a sensible arrangement of this kind is a safeguard which must take place.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what plans he has for improving the provision of education for deaf children in primary and secondary schools.

My right hon. Friend has recently agreed to a proposal made by Moray House College of Education for the establishment there of a Scottish Centre for the Education of the Deaf, and his Department is currently considering how the secondary education provision for the deaf could be improved.

I am grateful for that reply. May I press the hon. Gentleman to persuade local education authorities that this is a serious business, as there are too many local education authorities which do not take it seriously enough, and to provide more places for deaf children in primary and secondary schools?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his supplementary question. I know that his own county, Lanarkshire, is looking at this matter. I hope that over the years we shall be able to provide a first-class service. However, at the moment there is no general shortage of teachers.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a statement on the progress of the negotiations for teachers' pay.

The Scottish Teachers Salaries Committee has been unable to agree on a recommendation for the revision of teachers' salaries from 1st April, 1972. The matter is being referred to arbitration as provided by the Remuneration of Teachers (Scotland) Act, 1967.

I hope that that will not be used by the Government as a way of escaping from their responsibilities. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the 7 per cent. offered to the teachers this week is certainly not an encouragement to them to continue in the teaching profession? Does he also agree that that kind of figure, in view of the types of rises which are now taking place in other spheres of life, will not be encouraged in any way by the Government if this matter comes to their decision? Can we expect the Government to stand up for a decent wage and salary for all those in the teaching profession?

All these points will be carefully considered by the arbitration tribunal. The arbiters will be appointed by the Secretary of State for Employment as soon as possible, and we will have to await the report.

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland to what extent the Gaskin Report is still needed in relation to development in the North-East of Scotland.

Since this report was published there have been welcome new developments in North-East Scotland, particularly as a result of the discovery of North Sea oil, but the report is sufficiently flexible to take account of these developments and still provides a very useful framework for planning in the area.