asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will issue a general direction to the Post Office Corporation to encourage the use of postal codes as a substitute for writing the name of the town, village or district in view of the fact that it is unnecessary to put both in an address.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will give a general direction to the Post Office Corporation so to design its postal codes as to preserve to the fullest possible extent the individual names of smaller towns and villages.

No, Sir. The form of postal addresses is a matter for the Post Office.

It gives me great pleasure to be the first in the House to congratulate my right hon. Friend on his new and important post and also on becoming a member of the Privy Council. May I put it to him that whatever feelings the public may have about the postal codes—and they are considerably mixed—it is absurd to expect people to put both the full postal code and the full address on the mail they send?

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his kind remarks about me. I think it is necessary to continue to write the full address primarily as a safeguard but also because it will be needed in any event for parcels and packets.

Will my right hon. Friend accept that the matter goes further than that? Although postal codes may be a necessary device for the convenience of the Post Office, their total acceptance is really getting us far too near 1984. To reduce the House of Commons to SW1A 0AA is creating a battery hen situation as far as we are concerned.

The postal codes are being introduced and the Post Office is anxious to see their use adopted as widely as possible because they carry with them real prospects of economy in operation.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what progress has been made by the Post Office Corporation in the introduction of postal coding; and what estimate he has made of the expenditure involved, which he has sanctioned.

The Post Office tells me that it has introduced codes for about 16 million of the country's 20 million addresses at a cost of about £4½ million.

I thank the Member for his reply, but is he aware that only 13 out of a planned 100 sorting offices are equipped with machinery for scanning postal codes and that this situation tends to convince people that it makes little difference whether or not they use the postal codes? Will he give a firm target date for the completion of the postal code system?

I am aware of what the hon. Gentleman says in the first part of his question. On the last part of his question, the Post Office aims to complete the postal code programme by this year.

Will my right hon. Friend, whom I congratulate on his new appointment, tell us whether it makes any difference to put the postal code on an envelope?

So far as it is possible to adopt the practice of writing the postal codes on the addresses, this will enormously facilitate the mechanical sorting of letters, speed up delivery and produce economies in the Post Office.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what percentage of first-class letters is now being delivered on the following day.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will make a statement on the survey recently carried out by the Post Office Users National Council on the efficiency of the first-class mail service, details of which are in his possession.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what representations were made to him by the Post Office Users National Council as a result of the survey relating to the letter delivery service.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what percentage of first-class letters was being delivered the day after posting at the last available date.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what discussions he has had with the Post Office Corporation on the Report of the Post Office Users National Council of its monitoring exercise on the delivery of first-class mail.

No representations have been made by the Post Office Users National Council since its survey. Obviously statistics vary according to the particlar sampling method, but the Post Office is determined to work for continuing improvement in mail delivery throughout the country.

I, too, wish my right hon. Friend much success in his new post. Is he aware that there is a percentage of first-class mail which is not delivered the following day and that many provincial firms have to employ couriers to take their mail to other parts of the country? Is it not time that the Post Office considered means whereby it could ensure for a premium that a letter posted one day was delivered the next?

I think my hon. Friend recognises that there will always be some letters which will not be delivered the next day for particular reasons but, so far as it is possible, it is the purpose of the Post Office to eliminate delay. I am satisfied of that. It very much depends also on the time at which many of these letters are posted. Some of them are posted after the last moment at which first delivery next day would be possible.

I add my congratulations to the right hon. Gentleman. His success will depend largely on his own efforts, as the success of all postal workers depends on their own efforts. The guarantee of delivery of a letter depends a great deal on a happy workforce—a workforce not cut back in the manner which this workforce has been cut back in recent years—and even more on the speeding-up of the postal mechanisation programme promised earlier, in order that services can achieve the efficiency to which everyone who works for the postal service is dedicated.

The programme of mechanisation is going ahead well and it is in no way being held up, as the hon. Gentleman well knows. The main objective, which the whole House shares, is that there should be the most efficient possible service of mail delivery, and it motivates all ranks in the Post Office.

Would the right hon. Gentleman be good enough to confirm what his predecessor said on several occasions, that the Post Office is operating one of the most efficient and cheapest postal services anywhere in the world——

Really!

Why do you not shut your mouth, just for once?

Order. The hon. Gentleman should address the Chair.

That was not meant for the Chair. There is no doubt for whom it was intended. It was not for the first time and no doubt will not be the last.

I call upon the Minister to reply.

I have not asked my supplementary question, Mr. Speaker.

I am under constant pressure from hon. Members to get through Questions more quickly. The hon. Member should not make personal remarks.

On a point of order. My supplementary question had been in order until then and I had not finished it.

Will the hon. Gentleman now put his supplementary question succinctly?

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept the Post Office figure of 94 per cent. or does he accept the figure of other organisations which is much lower?

It is not for me to accept or reject any figure. I am determined, with the assistance of the Post Office, to bring about a steady improvement in the standard of service.

I understand that the microphones are not working. Would hon. Members please speak up.

Would the right hon. Gentleman agree that if he were to accept the figure produced by the Post Office Users National Council of 82 per cent. it makes suspect the system used by the Post Office which produced a figure of 94 per cent.? Is he satisfied that the system of monitoring used by the Post Office is efficient and is producing the right results?

That is why I referred in my answer to the first supplementary question to the different methods of sampling. The Post Office has used one method regularly on a month-by-month basis. The council's survey was more limited and was restricted to certain months in the year, October and February to be precise. All these surveys show that there is still room for improvement and I hope I have been able to reassure the House that it will be the objective of the Post Office to continue improving the service of mail delivery throughout the country.

May I, as one who seldom if ever has agreed with a word that the Minister has said—and I cannot think of a nicer thing for a Socialist to say to a Tory—offer my congratulations to the right hon. Gentleman for a happy if short term of office? No matter how the figures were arrived at, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there has been a deterioration, albeit minimal, in the service provided? Is he aware that this is not the fault of the postmen? Is he prepared to give me the assurance which was given by his predecessor and will he look at the mechanisation investment programme once again to see whether in the light of delivery surveys and by increasing employment he can accelerate this?

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his kind remarks, even if they were somewhat circumscribed. I look forward to seeing him opposite me for a long time to come. I can assure him that not only will I look afresh at the mechanisation programme but I will keep under review the total investment programme of the Post Office.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will issue a general direction to the Post Office to improve the number of letters bearing first-class franking which are delivered at their destination on the following day.

No, Sir. The Post Office is making every effort towards that end.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the discontent which has been expressed in the House today merits such a directive, but that if a directive were to be issued the Post Office would almost certainly tell him that letters would be delivered more speedily if there were more and better paid postment? In view of the present structural unemployment in the economy, should we not be expanding the service industries, particularly the Post Office?

No, this is not a matter of numbers or of pay. The rate of delivery at the first post is very high, as hon. Members recognise, but large numbers of people do not get letters delivered when they expect to do so and think this arises primarily out of the establishment of the two-tier system. The Post Office is constantly looking at this matter to seek ways of improving delivery.

Will the right hon. Gentleman explain why it has been necessary for me to report to the Chairman of the Post Office Board and the officials concerned first-class letters sent from County Hall to the Palace of Westminster which have taken four days to deliver? If the letters were dropped in the street they would sometimes arrive more quickly.

As the hon. Gentleman will know, the Post Office Users National Council's report which has just been made available emphasises that this is a management matter for the Post Office. This it must be, and I hope the hon. Gentleman will bring these matters to the attention of the Post Office.

I have done so.

I assure the hon. Gentleman and the House that no one, least of all myself as Minister, is in any way sanguine about this, but we must realise that there are 16 million first-class letters a day being delivered, which is a very substantial number.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will now extend the concessionary television licence now applicable to pensioners living in purpose-built accommodation to cover also disabled relatives who are compelled to live with them, in the light of correspondence from the hon. Member for Bassetlaw.

The special licence for old people living in old persons' homes was provided not as a welfare concession but to correct an anomaly in the licensing requirements for old people. Whilst it has not been Government policy to give cheap licences on welfare grounds I wish to look further into the details of the particular case which the hon. Gentleman has drawn to my attention.

May I thank the Minister for that reply? Is he aware that if an old lady lives alone she may qualify for a cheap licence but that if she takes in her disabled son, both of them being on supplementary benefit—and there is nowhere else for him to go—she will not get such a licence? Will the right hon. Gentleman look at this not simply as it applies to my constituent in Carlton, near Worksop, but as it applies to other cases when old people look after disabled relatives?

I will look not just at this case in isolation but at the implications which it has. This is not a simple matter and that is why I must plead for further time to go into details.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications which organisations have now written to him asking him to give a general direction to the Post Office to grant concessionary telephone rentals to registered charities; and what replies he has sent.

None, Sir.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that charities are treated as businesses and it is absolutely ridiculous when by definition they are not operating for profit? Is he aware that certain charities, such as the Samaritans, use the telephone as an essential part of the work they do and face particular difficulties in this respect, frequently operating from private homes? Why cannot there be a special category for charities or social services with, if necessary, a Government subsidy to compensate the Post Office for loss of revenue?

I do not think it would be right to impose welfare responsibilities on a business organisation such as the Post Office or, for that matter, on other nationalised industries. This has been the view of successive Governments. In any case there is the opportunity to provide aid for telephone charges to those in need through the social services.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications, having regard to the mounting loss of the Post Office Giro, whether he will now state his estimate of the cumulative Giro loss at the financial year end, 31st March, 1972, of the Post Office Corporation; and how he proposes, by loan or other wise, to finance such loss.

I have no later figures than those given to my hon. Friend on 19th January, and would ask him to await the board's report and accounts for this year.—[Vol. 829, c. 433.]

Is my right hon. Friend aware that that will not be until the autumn? As the Giro is continuing to lose large sums of money and has already lost £25 million, and is the lamest of all lame ducks, would it not be appropriate for a new Minister to sweep the yard clean and get rid of this unwanted service, handing it over to the joint stock banks which already have equivalent and much better services?

A decision about the future of Giro has already been taken and it is now our aim to ensure that it improves in profitability.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we hope he will reject the opinion of his hon. Friend that it is a lame duck? Is he further aware that this is a very useful service for many people? Does he realise that it has been suggested by the Post Office and from these benches on many occasions that the best way the Minister could encourage the use of Giro would be for him and his Government colleagues to give a lead by enabling Government Departments to use the Giro service to the fullest extent?

The last point raised by the hon. Getleman is a matter for individual Government Departments.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications when it is estimated that pushbutton telephone dialling will be available to subscribers.

This is a marketing matter for the Post Office, which recently announced field trials of a new pushbutton telephone with a view to general introduction next year.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that frequently I have to dial half a dozen times to get places such as Nuneaton from London? If he will not do anything about the outdated exchange equipment, will be please do something about the dialling mechanism?

I have every sympathy with the hon. Gentleman's frustration. Many of us have had experience of misdialling and other such things. I am sure that the more rapid introduction of new techniques will be of immense assistance in this respect.

In view of recent publicity about the existence of a little black book containing the telephone numbers of the lady friends of the hon. Member for Nuneaton (Mr. Leslie Huckfield), would my right hon. Friend agree that the hon. Gentleman's anxiety over the introduction of push-button dialling is because he frequently gets a busy line?

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will make a statement on the latest position nationally with regard to the supply of telephone equipment by contractors to the Post Office and the extent of delays.

The Post Office informs me that some 33 per cent. of contracts for exchange equipment were subject to delay at the end of January. Although improvements are being made, I am keeping in touch with the position.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this inordinate delay means that many persons who applied for the installation of domestic telephones in February last will have to wait until November, 1973? Could he not do something about it? It is not possible to establish factories in development districts and put the unemployed to work producing equipment, thus minimising this unfortunate delay?

The hon. Gentleman is right that delays are responsible for a substantial percentage of the waiting list. I am concerned about this and am having discussions with the major contractors and the Post Office.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we are no longer prepared to accept the argument that we have been getting from his predecessor, namely, that previous investment programmes are the cause of the delay? Is he aware that firms have given delivery dates and the 18 months' delay is on these delivery dates? Will he co-operate with the Ministers in his former Department to deal with this?

As the hon. Gentleman knows, many of these delays in deliveries relate to crossbar equipment on which there have been special development problems. Having said that, however, I emphasise that this is a matter for very great concern, and I am having discussions with my colleagues in the Department of Trade and Industry.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what percentage of parcel post is now delivered on the following day; and if he will make a statement.

About one-third.

Does the Minister realise that it takes up to a week for a parcel posted in London to be delivered inside London? Will he consider investigating this with a view to providing a general improvement in the whole service of the parcel post?

The delivery of parcels by the second working day after posting has in fact improved from 71 per cent. to 76 per cent. since the Post Office's last annual report. There is a variety of different means by which parcels can be delivered, and I think it is up to the individual to determine the service which will give him the most satisfaction. Here again, however, this is a matter which I know gives rise to a good deal of concern within the Post Office in ensuring that wherever delays arise they can be overcome. Very often, as the hon. Gentleman knows, these are not wholly within the hands of the Post Office itself.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications to what extent entry into the European Economic Community will affect the British posts, telephone and telecommunications system so far as costs to the consumer are concerned; and to what extent he will be able to arrange for free and subsidised telephone services to retirement pensioners and the sick and disabled under existing European Economic Community regulations on Great Britain's entry.

Our entry will not involve any commitment to alter postal or telephone tariffs. Aid for the needy will continue to be a matter for the social services.

Irrespective of what the EEC may say, can the Post Office and the Minister carry out any form of subsidy, help and assistance without reference to the Community, such as is suggested in the Question to people of this sort? Would the Minister be able to take legislative action here without reference to the Community?

Yes. This is primarily a matter, as the hon. Gentleman knows, for the social service departments, but this is certainly the case.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what steps he is taking to increase financial provision to the British Broadcasting Corporation in order to permit it to increase the engineering staff whose duties are the installation and erection of television relay stations, so as to cut down the period of two years now takes by the British Broadcasting Corporation to get a relay station on the air after all site acquisition is completed.

None, Sir. Money is not in any case the decisive factor.

Would my right hon. Friend agree that there is a delay of two years and that it is absolutely intolerable, in particular in areas such as mine, in Derbyshire, where the reception of all types of television is appalling? The BBC has informed me that there is a lack of trained staff. Will my right hon. Friend do what he can to improve the situation, because it is quite intolerable for my constituents, as for many others elsewhere in a situation similar to that of mine?

I of course have every sympathy with the views which my hon. Frend has expressed, and I recognise the force of the point he has made. He has stressed the non-availability of some staff, I will look into this matter in consultation with the authorities concerned, but I think it is right we should recognise that this must be a developing system which is best built up by stages to ensure maxium efficiency of a nationwide service.

Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise that I, as a constituent of the hon. Member for Derbyshire, West (Mr. Scott-Hopkins), can testify that there are many areas in Derbyshire where it is impossible to pick up two out of three of the television services? Would it not be better for the Government to allocate resources for this rather than to push ahead with their regional radio service?

No, this is not due wholly to financial resources. It is much more due to the factors which have been mentioned by my hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what progress he is making in his consultations regarding a new Chairman of the Governors of the British Broadcasting Corporation.

I have nothing to add to the reply of 22nd March given by my predecessor to the hon. Members for Rugby (Mr. William Price) and Derby, North (Mr. Whitehead).—[Vol. 833, c. 1480.]

Would my right hon. Friend agree that the senior management and the Governors of the BBC should show more concern for the content and presentation of BBC programmes? I believe that this was clearly not the case with the "British Empire" series. Would my right hon. Friend further agree that they should show much more concern for this in the future?

As my hon. Friend knows, it is the Chairman and Governors who have ultimate responsibility not only for running the corporation but also for acting as trustees for the public. While I recognise that there will be individual programmes which may cause public disquiet, it is for the public to express these views to the corporation and to the authorities concerned.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommuncations if he will announce where the next commercial local radio stations to be set up after those in London, Birmingham, Manchester and Glasgow will be located.

No yet, but I can assure my hon. Friend that there will be no undue delay in doing so.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that failure to announce where the next stations will be is discouraging many people from entering the list to compete for these franchises, which by all accounts are likely to be extremely unprofitable as matters stand? Will he give early and urgent consideration to announcing what the frequencies not only of the later stations but of the earlier ones will be, so that they may be subjected to the most careful public scrutiny?

Of course, I recognise my hon. Friend's interest in these matters, but I think it is premature to talk at this stage about discouragement. I think we must move nearer to the day when the IBA becomes established.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what fresh representations he has received on the need for an independent broadcasting council.

None since 1st March, when my hon. Friend asked a similar Question.—[Vol. 832, c. 398.]

That is probably because the public have not yet caught up with my right hon. Friend in his new appointment. Will he recognise that the call for a broadcasting council is a call not for censorship but to try to find means whereby the public may have some kind of redress? Rather than give a snap answer to the call for an independent broadcasting council today, will my right hon. Friend at least say that he will be prepared to give fresh consideration to this question?

I naturally have a great deal of interest in any question or proposition put forward by my hon. Friend, and I certainly do not dismiss this out of hand.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he is yet able to make an announcement on increased telephone charges.

No, Sir. The Post Office Users National Council has not yet completed its consideration of the Post Office proposals.

Is the Minister aware of the great importance of not allowing the telephone service to lose its financial viability at the present time? Is he further aware that there is a case for study for increased charges to business subscribers rather than to residential subscribers?

I see no danger of the first point which the hon. Member makes. As for the second point, I think this is more a matter for Post Office initiative.

Does the right hon. Gentleman feel that, at a time when the demands for telephones seem to be continually so much in advance of the supply, the Post Office would do much better by trying to increase the number of its customers than by increasing its prices?

I think that this again is mainly a matter for the Post Office, which has to take into account the manufacturing capacity to meet any increase in demand.

Is the Minister aware that the one thing which we in this House or the country are not prepared to accept is any system of rationing by price? While we recognise the need for increased money, we think—I hope that the Minister will consider this—that perhaps the way to do it would be by looking at the prospects of selling more telephones to increase telephone calls. Would the Minister be prepared to examine rather more seriously the notion put forward by his right hon. Friend the Member for Stafford and Stone (Mr. Hugh Fraser) and from this side of the House the last time we discussed this matter that fresh ways of raising the money should be considered?

I think I can certainly reply in the affirmative to the last part of that supplementary question. As to the first part, I am certain we shall see steadily increasing usage of telephones throughout the country.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what recent approaches have been made to him by the British Broadcasting Corporation requesting an increase in television licence fees.

None, Sir.

Will the Minister assure the House that he will go through his period of office, however short, without being a party to increasing the television licence fee?

I do not like giving too many assurances at the outset of what I hope to be a long and happy occupation of this office.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what development is taking place, within the capital programme which he has authorised, on telephone exchange and stored programme control techniques; and when it is expected that a commercially viable system of stored programme control can be introduced.

Research and development are primarily matters for the Post Office and I have nothing to add to the answer which was given to the hon. Gentleman on 9th February.—[Vol. 830, c. 1320–1.]

Is the Minister aware that Government grants towards the development of stored programme control should be taken into consideration when decisions are taken on whether to adopt TXE4 equipment, and that these are direct grants to the National Research Development Corporation?

The Post Office does not expect to decide on its proposals for the next generation of telephone equipment before the end of this year. It will then come to me for approval of its long-term capital programme. In the meantime, I am keeping myself informed of developments and I will ensure that the Post Office takes into account all the relevant considerations.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will name the three greater London boroughs with the highest number of post-war housing completions.

Havering, Bromley and Southward, in that order.

Does not the fact that the London Borough of Bromley stands so high in the Greater London league table give the lie to those in the House and outside who have been mounting a malicious, unfounded and politically motivated campaign against the housing programmes in my borough?

We are very pleased with Bromley's performance, and the Government's position is quite clear. We look to all house building agencies, both public and private, to increase their output of dwellings in London. Inner London's housing problems cannot be solved without help from the outer boroughs.

In view of the variable factors involved, are not comparisons between London boroughs meaningless? Will the Minister, whom I congratulate on his appearance here today, bear in mind that it is ridiculous to have in the greater London area 32 borough housing authorities, each one of which regards the inhabitants of the other 31 as aliens who are not allowed to cross the frontier from one borough to another?

The hon. Gentleman, whom I thank for his kind remarks, fairly draws attention to other London boroughs which have made a contribution.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether, in view of the decision of the High Court in Cooke v. Football Association Limited, he will now reconsider his decision not to become involved with the football authorities in discussions relating to the law concerning transfers of players.

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich (Mr. Money) on 10th April.—[Vol. 834, c. 127.]

Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that if he could tell the Football League and the Football Association, when those two institutions stop squabbling, that the ultimate decision about for whom highly skilled football players should play should rest with the players, a great deal would be achieved, just as it would be if his right hon. Friend introduced tax incentives for ground improvement rather than for trading in players and asked the League to set the transfer deadline earlier to stop the domination of the League by the eight or nine richest clubs, with one or two honourable exceptions?

The hon. Gentleman represents an area whose club still has aspirations. The financial aspects are a matter for my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I regret the difference of opinion between the two football authorities, but it is a matter for them.

Will my hon. Friend say when the talks he expects to have with representatives of the Football Association, as mentioned in his Written Answer of 10th April, will take place? Will he bear in mind, in the light of the remarks of the hon. Member for Derby, North (Mr. Whitehead), that Ipswich Town has just taken nine points in five games, illustrating that the First Division is not dominated by the nine or ten richest clubs?

I congratulate my hon. Friend on his avid support of the club, from which I am glad to see the club is benefiting. I have frequent meetings with the football authorities at which I discuss these matters with them, but I must insist that questions of football management are in the first instance a matter for the football authorities and not for me.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what is the estimated acreage of land owned by local authorities scheduled for housing on which development has not yet reached an advanced planning stage.

Because of difficulties of definition insufficient information is available on which to make a reasonable estimate.

Are not too many Labour-controlled local authorities deliberately sabotaging the Government's house building programme by dragging their feet on planning consents and hoarding land which should be either developed quickly or sold off to increase the land supply stock? Is not this adding to the spiralling cost of houses and land as well as maintaining unemployment in the building industry?

It is for housing authorities to assess the needs of their areas and to act accordingly. We are looking to see whether any land can be released for housing among all the holdings over which the Government have influence, and we are urgently reviewing the planning procedures.

Will the hon. Gentleman try to do something to correct the damaging effect of a recent speech by the Minister for Local Government and Development in which he seemed to indicate a willingness to throw overboard any question of planning standards to satisfy private builders?

On the contrary. I maintain that there are adequate safeguards within the proposals spelt out by my hon. Friend and that a strong look at the planning procedures is necessary to bring housing sites on to the market.

Has my hon. Friend any information about what proportion of unused land is owned by local authorities?

No, I am afraid that precise information is not available.

May I also add my congratulations to the Under-Secretary of State? As it becomes increasingly clear that the Government have no land policy of any kind, except to bring pressure to bear on local authorities, will the hon. Gentleman convey to the Secretary of State the urgent need to make a statement on Government policy—if any—to this House?

I should like to stress that a complete review of planning procedures is now being urgently undertaken.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment at what distance from central London he estimates the advanced passenger train, travelling via the Channel Tunnel, will provide quicker city-centre service than travel from London by air.

I regret that at present no worthwhile estimates can be made.

Is my hon. Friend aware that I was given a recent answer to the effect that the travel time from central London to the centre of Paris via the Channel Tunnel and the advanced passenger train amounted to 2 hours and 40 minutes as opposed to 3¾ hours by air from Heathrow and a likely longer period from Foulness? Is he further aware that at the moment 24 per cent. of flights from Heathrow are flights of under300 miles and 38 per cent. of flights are less than 500 miles? Would he agree that much of this traffic is susceptible to direct competition from fast trains? Is he still convinced that we need four 19,000 feet runways at Foulness, with the Channel Tunnel being planned nearby?

I admire my hon. Friend's careful research, but I assure him that the interaction between the tunnel and the new third London airport is being carefully studied in my Department.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will now include a Redbourn bypass on A5 in the preparation list.

The proposed scheme will be considered for possible inclusion in the next extension of the trunk road preparation pool.

Does my hon. Friend recognise that in judging the needs for a new road there is a danger in giving greater consideration to congestion rather than to dangers on the road itself? Will he give high priority to this road, much of which runs through narrow high streets with consequent grave danger to residents?

We hope to announce inclusion of some additional small schemes in the trunk road preparation pool within two or three months and the Redbourn bypass is being considered. I cannot say whether it will be included in this scheme. In the meantime the Department is studying further safety measures as a matter of urgency.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he has now reconsidered his plan to wind up the British Waterways Board and to hand over its responsibilities to regional water authorities in the light of representations made to him.

The Government's intention remains that responsibility for the waterways should be taken over by the new regional water authorities. Within this framework consultations continue with the British Waterways Board as to the best form of management of the waterways.

Does the hon. Gentleman appreciate that the British Waterways Board has been in existence only since 1968, during which time it has functioned effectively and well? Does he further appreciate that our waterways are of direct economic value, besides being important as growing centres for leisure and pleasure, as is certainly the case in my own constituency and in South Wales generally? Does he not feel that to obstruct the waterways at this stage is nothing short of economic vandalism?

The hon. Gentleman's point is absurd, and he knows it. My right hon. Friend is anxious to promote the best interests of the waterways for recreation, amenity and commercial navigation wherever practicable. I am confident that this will be achieved under our proposals.

What assurances can my hon. Friend give that further stretches of canal which are of growing importance for recreational use will not be closed under the new set-up?

The statutory obligations are intended to be identical with those that exist today, and wherever a sensible and viable scheme can be put forward my right hon. Friend will gladly look at it.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that many stretches of canal are fit for nothing else but closure, and that one canal at Bootle has been described as a murderous, killing sewer, that there is no hope for it and that it has not been used for 20 years? Whether the hon. Gentleman changes the present set-up or maintains it, will he at least see that working-class areas like mine are properly represented on the board?

I am sure my right hon. Friend is anxious that all sections of the community shall be properly represented. The point made by the hon. Gentleman is a good one. We are seeking to achieve the best use of all our water supplies. It may be that in some areas the best use lies in amenity water parks for beauty or conservation and not simply navigation. We have to look at each case on its merits.

Is it not the duty of the British Waterways Board to advise the Government on the future of the waterways system and, if that is the case, why have the Government, without consulting the board, appointed a separate canal adviser, a man who on several occasions has said that he disapproves of the Government's policy? Will the Government take his advice and that of the board and scrap the proposals, which have no support anywhere in the country?

The fact that the adviser invited by my right hon. Friend to assist us in this matter has expressed different views from those in any Government publication demonstrates the broad-minded attitude taken by my right hon. Friend and his willingness to listen to advice—which is something the hon. Gentleman rarely displays.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what plans he has to meet the developers of the Leaden hall and Bishopsgate areas of London, with a view to tailoring future development to the national need to preserve the Roman Basilica, the biggest north of the Alps.

It would be for the Corporation of the City of London in the first instance to consider any proposals for the redevelopment of these areas. I expect that they would consult my Department as regards archæological implications.

Will the City repeat its performance over Bay nards Castle?

No. The City of London is the planning authority for the Leadenhall market but currently there are no plans for development.

Does my hon. Friend agree that events in recent months and weeks illustrate the need to make all historic and archæological sites the subject of preservation orders?

The scheduling of all sites of former buildings of archæological interest is not practicable, but by agreement with any future developer it is the intention to have excavations carried out to reveal exactly what is to be preserved and what are the problems involved.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what study he has made of the possibility of erecting buildings on stilts above valuable achæological sites; and if he will make a statement.

I agree that the erection of buildings on stilts is one possible way of preserving valuable archæological remains underneath. Each case needs to be considered individually.

Is there not a case for using the Field Monuments Bill, which is now going through the House, as a vehicle for a new Clause on this topic?

Detailed consideration will be given to that Bill in due course, but I emphasise that the erection of buildings on stilts is not the only way of preserving archæological remains. They can be raised to a higher level and incorporated in any new building. As an example I would draw attention to the Ministry of Defence building in Whitehall in which there is a Tudor wine cellar which has been preserved and can be visited.

Since we have so few old buildings left in this country, and even fewer archæological remains, would my hon. Friend give serious consideration to strengthening legislation to protect such works? Furthermore, even at this late juncture, will he look at the possibility of Amendments to the Town and Country Planning (Amendment) Bill?

My hon. Friend's suggestion can be considered, but I assure him that his concern is shared and that every care will be taken for the proper examination of archæological remains which could be of importance.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what has been the increased amount on the average price of new private houses in the Northern Region since June, 1970, to the latest available date.

The average price of new private houses in the three northern regions of England mortgaged with building societies is estimated to have been £4,669 in 1971, compared with £4,257 in 1970, an increase of 10 per cent.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in parts of the North East the increase is higher than 40 per cent.? Is he aware, further, that this increase demonstrates even more the appalling escalation in house prices since the present Government took office, and that it is hypocritical to talk of a property-owning society if young married couples find it quite impossible to think of buying houses? In congratulating the hon. Gentleman on his new appointment, may I plead with him to tell his colleagues in his Department that we must have a change in this disastrous piece of Government policy?

I must remind the right hon. Gentleman that there was a rise of 21 per cent. in the price of private sector houses in the years 1967–70. Recently there has been a great upsurge in the demand for home ownership. Increases in incomes have enlarged the base for mortgage credit so that there are more willing and able purchasers today than before.

Is not it possible that the increase in the price of a house is partly accounted for by the increase in the price of land? With that in mind, does my hon. Friend recall his answer to a Question just now when he said that insufficient information was available in his Department to give any sensible reply? I find this very worrying. Will my hon. Friend ensure that proper statistics are obtained?

The reason why there could not be a detailed reply to the earlier Question was that it was framed with inaccurate definition. To reply to my hon. Friend's question, the urgency of bringing as much land as possible on to the market is fully appreciated, and strong efforts will be made in this respect. However an increase in the supply of private houses is the best answer to rising house prices.

Is not it a fallacy that house prices are soaring because developers are starved of land by local authorities? Is not it a fact that in the south-eastern counties alone there are building permissions for 150,000 houses which have not been taken up by builders? Are not speculators holding on to land with a view to securing a profit on selling shortly afterwards?

It must be remembered that there are good reasons for developers having a "bank" of land to provide for future development. That is essential for the planned development of houses coming into the market. I stress that in the period from November, 1971, to February, 1972, starts in the private sector were 35 per cent. up on the same period a year earlier. The trend is moving in the right direction.

asked the Lord President of the Council what additional accommodation is currently being constructed for hon. Members; how many additional separate rooms will be provided; how soon he expects the work to be completed; and what is the estimated total cost.

Additional accommodation for Members is now being constructed over the Tea Room. This will consist of 43 double rooms and six rooms with four desks each, so providing accommodation for over 100 Members. The work will be completed during the next Christmas Recess, and the estimated cost is £240,000.

I am grateful for that information. Can the right hon. Gentleman say how far demand exceeds supply? Will he accept an assurance from me that even the new accommodation which has been provided over the last few years leaves many hon. Members in only a slightly better position than that of a battery hen? Will he undertake, therefore, to seek further possibilities in this building rather than over the road to provide decent and separate accommodation for the ordinary back bencher?

In my early years in this House I suffered the conditions of a free-range hen. I also remember the battery hen conditions to which the hon. Gentleman has referred. Undoubtedly there is an excess of demand over supply. I cannot quantify it after only 10 days in my present position. But the ultimate answer is the new parliamentary building which I am sure the House hopes will be completed by 1978.

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that I have the same experience as the hon. Member for Fife, West (Mr. William Hamilton) since I am a neighbour of his in a room on the Upper North Corridor, where the sound insulation between rooms might not be there at all for all the use it is? Will my right hon. Friend give attention to seeing that when the new rooms are constructed the sound insulation is at least better than that on the Upper North Corridor?

I will bear that in mind. Meanwhile, I hope that both hon. Members enjoy their listening.

The Lord President referred to the new parliamentary building across the road as "the ultimate solution". Meanwhile, will he look at the possibility of clearing out all the functionaries from the Committee Offices upstairs? What hon. Members want is accommodation near the Chamber. Officials should take second place. I know the vested interests involved. But will the right hon. Gentleman pursue the path of obstinacy that he followed with regard to industrial relations and understand that parliamentary relationships will be very much better if Members get their proper prior place in this building?

I will bear in mind what the right hon. Gentleman has said. I am sure the House will realise that the officials who serve us also have their very genuine needs if they are to serve us as we wish them to. But I will make sure that the Services Committee gives this matter careful consideration.

asked the Lord President of the Council, following his correspondence with the Chairman of the House of Commons Motor Club, whether he will now make a statement concerning parking accommodation for Members' cars within the precincts of the Palace of Westminster from the summer of 1972 to the summer of 1973, while the underground car park is being built, and while 25 per cent. only of Members' cars will be provided for within the precincts, and 75 per cent. at Broad Sanctuary or Horse Guards, or both.

I am very much aware of the importance of ensuring that the House has adequate car parking facilities throughout the construction of the proposed underground car park The Services Committee has this problem under detailed consideration at the present time and, I hope, will be reporting to the House shortly.

Did my right hon. Friend witness the indescribable confusion in New Palace Yard yesterday evening when motor cars serving up to 570 Members voting in Divisions, including my own, were parked there? As there were 60 Ministerial cars with chauffeurs in attendance all standing unused in Speaker's Court until 4 o'clock in the morning, would not it have been more sensible to place those facilities at the disposal of Members coming to and fro and obeying the calls of their Whips, which they will not be able to do if their cars are parked as far away as Horse Guards Parade or Broad Sanctuary?

The circumstances to which my hon. Friend has drawn attention underline the urgent need for the underground car park which we hope will soon be started. According to my information, the maximum capacity of Speaker's Court is for 36 cars. Nevertheless it is a serious problem. The Services Committee is aware of it. We have studied carefully the information that my hon. Friend gave the Committee. I hope we shall be reporting on it shortly.

As a temporary measure, will the right hon. Gentleman write to all members of the House of Commons Motor Club and to those hon. Members who park their cars in New Palace Yard, giving them elementary instructions on how to park a car? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is becoming increasingly difficult for taxis to get to the Members' Entrance in New Palace Yard?

I am not sure that a letter from me to all hon. Members on this subject would be productive. But I will see whether anything can be done.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment in respect of how many acres of land in South Bedfordshire, excluding the County Borough of Luton, planning permission has been given for building since April, 1968; on how many such acres building has commenced; and if he will make a statement.

This information is not sent to the Department. But my right hon. Friend is at present considering whether it would be desirable and practicable to seek further information on such subjects from local authorities.

Will my hon. Friend have early discussions with the planning authorities in South Bedfordshire on this matter in view of the housing situation?

My right hon. Friend is very much concerned about the avail ability and price of building land. As I indicated in the original answer, we are considering what further action it would be right to take with the co-operation of the authorities as a matter of urgency.