asked the Minister of State for Defence if he will give the strength of Her Majesty's Forces in British Honduras at 1st January, 1972, and at the latest available date; and if he will make a statement.

On 1st January, 1972, the garrison in British Honduras amounted to some 250 personnel. It has now been increased to about 600 personnel.

Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm the report in today's Guardian that Britain agreed today to reduce its military forces in British Honduras and to allow the operation to be supervised by an observer of the Organisation of American States? If this is so, by what amount are the forces to be reduced and will the Minister give an assurance that there will be no more of the posturings of a couple of months ago which brought the British Government to the humiliating position of having to withdraw troops from one of their own dependencies under international supervision?

I am not sure that I accept all the premises of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question. Basically the broad issue is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs. I confirm that the Government have offered to arrange for a representative of the OAS to visit British Honduras and see for himself that the suggestion which has been made that we have deployed large offensive forces in British Honduras is unfounded. We are hopeful, if this offer is accepted, that it will in due course be possible to return to diplomatic means of solving the issue.

:Will my right hon. Friend confirm that British Honduras is one of the best training areas and that there are training exercises going on and troops out there, my son amongst them?

This is an area where infantry training is done, but the prime responsibility of the troops is of course the protection of the territorial integrity of British Honduras.

asked the Minister of State for Defence how many men, ships and aircraft are now involved in the Beira Patrol.

asked the Minister of State for Defence whether he will make a statement about recent interceptions of ships by the Beira patrol; and what is its present strength of men-of-war and aircraft.

:It is not the practice to give details of operational deployments, but the way the Beira patrol operates has varied to meet changing circumstances. The only interception this year was that of the Portuguese Tanker "Sao Mamede" on 17th March.

Does the Minister agree that, contrary to the cynicism of some, the Beira patrol has achieved its objective in stopping the flow of oil through the Beira pipeline? Does he not agree that, if the Pearce Commission finds that the proposed settlement on Rhodesia is unacceptable to the majority of people in Rhodesia, we must now give a categorical assurance that we will maintain the patrol, if necessary extend it and bring all possible pressure to bear on Portugal and South Africa to stop by other means sabotage of the sanctions policy?

I agree with the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question and have frequently said so. On the second part I refer to the hon. Gentleman to the answers given by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs on 27th March.

:Although I understand that for security reasons the Minister cannot give the actual answer to my question, will he nevertheless promise that if he were able to answer "Nil" he would give us the answer, and will he be able to give that answer in about four or five months' time?

:That also is probably a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Common wealth Affairs.

:Will the right hon. Gentleman assure us that as long as there are nations which are prepared to disregard the United Nations resolution on Rhodesia, the Beira patrol will be maintained to prevent blockade-breaking?

:That is certainly a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what arrangements have been made for resiting the Royal Air Force Shackletons which have been operating in support of the Beira patrol following their withdrawal from the Malagasy Republic.

:None, Sir. However, I am satisfied that the obligation which was imposed by Security Council Resolution 221 can still be fulfilled.

I am grateful for the first part of my hon. Friend's reply. Is he satisfied that, without this aerial support, the Beira patrol will be able satisfactorily to offer a proper salute to supplies of Rhodesian chrome and other materials, which British companies alone are not allowed to buy, as they pass out of Beira towards United States ports and other destinations throughout the world?

A splendid supplementary question!

I am satisfied that the Beira patrol will be able to carry out the task assigned to it, which is to prevent oil entering the Port of Beira.

asked the Minister of State for Defence whether he will list the contractors supplying both hardware and software for the Linesman system of air defence radar.

:The principal contractors supplying both hardware and software are the Plessey Co. Ltd., the Marconi Co. Ltd., and Elliott Bros. (London) Ltd.

:I am grateful for that reply. Is it not true that Plessey has been unable to complete the software part of the contract and has had to subcontract? Has not the cost of continuing this hardware contract with Plessey become so high that it would be cheaper to begin again with Honeywell or Univac and to use their hardware system throughout?

:I do not think Plessey is as unhappy with the state of affairs as is the hon. Gentleman, and it is going forward with the contract.

What representations has the Department had from Univac?

If the hon. Gentleman puts down a Question on that matter, I will answer it.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what action has been taken on the complaint made by the Technical and Supervisory Section of the Amalgamated Union of Engineering workers, on 7th February, 1972, of a breach of the Fair Wages Resolution by Multiplex Designs Limited, Marlow House, Station Road, Sidcup, Kent

asked the Minister of State for Defence how many orders have been placed with Multiplex Designs Limited, Marlow House, Station Road, Sidcup, Kent, since the complaint was made by the Technical and Supervisory Section of the Amalgamated Union of Engineering Workers of breach of the Fair Wages Resolution

asked the Minister of State for Defence what reply was sent to the complaint made by the Technical and Supervisory Section of the Amalgamated Union of Engineering Workers to the Ministry of Defence regarding the breach of the Fair Wages Resolution by Multiplex Designs Limited, Marlow House, Station Road, Sidcup, Kent

asked the Minister of State for Defence whether it is his policy to place orders with Multiplex Designs Limited, Marlow House, Station Road, Sidcup, Kent, pending a decision on the complaint, made by the Technical and Supervisory Section of the Amalgamated Union of Engineering Workers, of breach of the Fair Wages Resolution.

Multiplex Designs Limited was invited to comment on the complaints of the Amalgamated Union of Engineering Workers and its explanations were conveyed to the union. The AUEW said that it was not satisfied with the firm's comments. The matter has therefore been referred to the Department of Employment, as provided for in the Fair Wages Resolution.

:Is the hon. Gentleman aware that my hon. Friends and I are raising this matter with the knowledge of the hon. Member who represents the constituency concerned and as members of the union affected? Is he further aware that the fair wages clause which is part of this Ministry of Defence contract involves items such as holiday entitlement, the payment of fair wages agreed nationally and locally, and also trade union membership? Has not procrastination by the Ministry worsened the situation, which is now being dealt with rather late?

:I am aware of the factors mentioned by the hon. Gentleman, but there has been no procrastination by my Ministry. It is best not to comment further until the matter is resolved.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that clause 4 of the Fair Wages Resolution provides that workpeople shall have freedom to join a union? Does he appreciate that at this firm the first worker who sought to do so was sacked and that when eight more tried to follow his example they too were sacked? What does the hon. Gentleman intend to do about the situation in regard to defence contracts?

:I am aware about the first matter mentioned by the hon. Gentleman, but the other matters are in dispute. I prefer not to comment until the facts have definitely been established by the Department of Employment.

How can the hon. Gentleman say so smoothly in his answer that there has been no procrastination in his Department? This matter was raised with him on 4th February and four weeks later, following a reminder from the AUEW, a letter was written to the firm. But the matter has still not been resolved. The Minister told us today that it is now the concern of the Industrial Arbitration Board, which I sincerely hope has been asked to examine the matter because there are members of the union who have been unemployed now for four months. [Hon. Members: "Speech."] Is this not in marked contrast to the Government's 24-hour ultimatum to the railway workers? It would appear that when our memebers are concerned a period of four months is not considered to be procrastination.

I was pleased to hear the hon. Gentleman say that he thought my answer was smooth. I do not agree with him that there has been any procrastination. We had to identify the complaint, and when something is referred to the Department of Employment it is as well that both sides should be heard and the matter properly investigated.

Since 10 weeks have elapsed since an official complaint of breach of the Fair Wages Resolution was notified to the Ministry of Defence and the Department of Employment, and since men have been put out of work as a result of this firm's activities, will the hon. Gentleman give an undertaking that no more orders will be placed with the firm until the complaint has been properly investigated? Should not this matter have been referred to the Industrial Arbitration Board? Since this has not happened, the Minister surely cannot say that he has taken all the proper steps which should have been taken in such a serious breach as this. How can the hon. Gentleman say that a breach has not been established when the firm is paying less than the minimum established two years ago for doing the job?

I repeat that it has not yet been established that a breach has taken place. If the facts as outlined by the union are true, a breach has taken place. But my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment will first conciliate, and if that fails he will refer the matter to the Industrial Arbitration Board. In the meantime no new orders will be placed with the firm.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what plans he now has to make an official visit to Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement

I plan to visit the Army in Northern Ireland again next month.

:In view of the recent statement by the Prime Minister and the welcome desire to look to the future rather than the past, and bearing in mind the recent fresh and striking departure in policy, will not the Minister agree that a vital condition for a sane solution of the Whitelaw mission is a low-key approach by troops in future and preferably a withdrawal or growing detachment from sensitive areas? Does the right hon. Gentleman acknowledge that an early visit by him to Northern Ireland might be interpreted in some quarters—and one hopes in all quarters—as a recognition by him of these facts and as an earnest of his own good and positive intentions?

:I visit the Army in Northern Ireland when I consider it to be in the public interest to do so, but I regard it as important to restore and maintain law and order and to avoid inter-communal stress and disorder. At the same time the security forces are aware of the extreme importance of encouraging this in the community and are working with great courage to restore peace and to persuade those who seek to further violence to cease this mode of operation. This is taken into account in the orders available to the Army.

:Before my hon. Friend carries out his visit, could he investigate a report that Martin Meehan, the I.R.A. leader, was observed by the Army entering a house in the Marrowbone area of Belfast on Saturday, but the Army was unable to get clearance in time to apprehend him?

I will look into the matter raised by my hon. Friend.

Will the hon. Gentleman accept that the aim of most of us who have an interest in the Six Counties is to create an atmosphere in which peace can be restored? Will he on his visit have discussions with Army commanders in the Six Counties to see whether it is possible to withdraw troops from Catholic areas to relieve some of the pressure in those areas in an attempt to restore peace there?

:I agree that it is the wish of most hon. Members in this House that peace should be restored, but we have first to recognise that we cannot leave areas subject to the tender mercies of gunmen. We cannot have areas in which law and order does not exist and the rules are laid down by gunmen. That is quite unacceptable.

:Is my hon. Friend aware that many of us are disturbed that many IRA members seem to be able to visit the Bogside and Creggan with impunity while my right hon. Friend and other British Ministers have not been able to enter that area? Is he further aware that although we recognise the need at times for the Armed Forces in Northern Ireland to maintain a low profile, many of us are disturbed at the continuing tolerance and, indeed, subsidisation of no-go areas?

:The Army will continue to act, as appropriate in its opinion and in the opinion of the responsible Minister, to counter terrorism with determination and as actively and effectively as it can.

asked the Minister of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the progress of the operations of the British Army in Ulster.

The Army continues energetically to counter violence and terrorism.

:Will the noble Lord reassure the House that no intensive operations will take place in the no-go areas until Roman Catholic support for the IRA has been greatly reduced by the political initiative? Will he also bear in mind that no circumstances, or hardly any circumstances, should ever again justify 13 people being shot dead in a British city.

It would be wrong for me to anticipate operational moves made by the Army. However, as I have already said, the broad purpose of the Army has not changed. It is to restore law and order and to prevent inter-communal strife, which the Army will continue to do. Concerning the events in Londonderry, I have nothing to add to the report made by the Lord Chief Justice.

:In view of the continued shootings and bombings in Northern Ireland and, most recently, the horrible murder of Corporal James Elliott and the use of his body as a booby trap, will the Minister urge the Army to do all it can to tighten control on the Border between the North and South of Ireland?

:The murder to which my hon. Friend referred was peculiarly squalid and aroused the revulsion, I should think, of all humane persons. I have explained on several occasions that whereas there are some steps we can effectively take to hinder the movement of terrorists across the Border, the complete closure of the Border would demand large forces and that is not regarded as practicable.

Reverting to the supplementary question of my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Mr. Cronin), may I remind the right hon. Gentleman of paragraphs 33 and 34 of the report of the Lord Chief Justice which imply that military operations must take into account the importance of ensuring the safety of civilians, many of them innocent civilians, who might be caught in crossfire if precipitate action were taken? May we have the Minister's assurance that future military operations will take account of that suggestion?

They always have.

:Will my right hon. Friend tell the House when he expects the destruction of the bestial IRA terrorists who are waging this terrible campaign in Northern Ireland? Will he also explain how the Army will reply to IRA gunfire when it is directed from behind women and children?

It is extraordinarily unwise for any Minister, when the Army is engaged in military operations, to forecast a date when those operations will be concluded. I am certain that it is the wish of the vast majority of the population in Northern Ireland that terrorism, gunfire, murder and all the horrors which exist should be ended at the earliest possible moment. The whole House is aware of the immense difficulties facing the Army in dealing with urban guerrilla warfare. I think the House recognises that the Army has conducted its operations with skill and restraint.

:Is the Minister aware that Catholics in both this country and Ireland hate and deplore the violence just as much as he and other hon. Members? Is he further aware that it is only by the cessation of these atrocities and violence by the IRA that we can have a just and lasting peace? We all understand that. However, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman to take notice of the plea made by my hon. Friend and other hon. Members to keep Army activity, in view of what happened in Derry, in the lowest possible key bearing in mind the safety of British troops?

I will, of course, take account of the point which the hon. Gentleman has made. However, he will appreciate that there still remains a considerable volume of violence in Northern Ireland. For instance, in the last five days alone there have been 200 shooting incidents, not just 200 rounds fired. It depends not only on the military but, as the hon. Member said, upon the community at large to bring this considerable volume of violence to an end.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what urban areas in Northern Ireland are not being regularly patrolled by foot and mobile units, respectively.

:Apart from the Creggan and Bogside areas of Londonderry there are no areas in Northern Ireland which are not regularly patrolled by foot or mobile units as and when the need arises.

Will my right hon. Friend make a careful study of the opening paragraph of the Widgery Report which sets out the failure of the policy over the past two years in the Creggan and the Bogside to lead to the terrorists giving up their activities? As murders, shooting in the back of the knee, tarring and feathering, and so on, are continuing in these areas, will my right hon. Friend ensure that the rule of law is restored by the Army since the police, having been disarmed as a result of the recommendations of the Hunt Report and the intervention of Sir Arthur Young, are unable to go into these areas to do it themselves?

:The comparatively low level of activity in the Creggan and Bogside, which is of long standing, is in no way a new development. However, it reflects the desire of the Army to co-operate as far as possible with those who are working to reduce violence in those areas. We are anxious not to frustrate the chances of those who, with immense courage, are trying to eliminate violence in those areas.

:How does one eliminate violence with the I.R.A. when it is precisely dedicated to it? How on earth does one restore order in Northern Ireland while, with our tacit consent, fortified areas are maintained, like Saracen castles, from which it operates?

:The Army will take what steps are necessary to go after the gunmen and terrorists. I do not believe that terrorism of this kind can be dealt with solely by barricades and bullets. It must have the co-operation of the mass of the population concerned.

:Will my right hon. Friend tell the House what steps the Army is taking to prevent terrorist leaders making official visits to these no-go areas in Northern Ireland?

I have already answered that question.

:May I revert to an earlier question? I am sure the Minister shares my view of the importance of safeguarding the interests and lives of the innocent civilian population. In a previous answer, the Minister said categorically that the Army had always taken that view. Paragraph 34 of the Widgery Report says categorically that to these people the dangers were under-estimated. I have no wish to recriminate, but may we be assured that in future operations the interests of the civilian population will be regarded as of paramount importance?

:The interests of the civilian population are of the utmost importance. Equally the report pointed out the fact that the casualties would not have occurred if that illegal march had not taken place. One is equally bound to say that those who participate in illegal marches which are likely to result in violence are taking a very grave risk upon themselves.

asked the Minister of State for Defence how many British troops were in Ulster on 15thApril, 1972, or the most recent convenient date, and how this figure compares with 1st January, 1970, 1st January, 1971, and 1st January, 1972.

The total number of Regular troops amounted to some 8,100 on 1st January, 1970, 7,600 on 1st January, 1971, 14,300 on 1st January, 1972, and 14,600 on 1st April, 1972. In addition the total strength of the Ulster Defence Regiment amounted to some 4,000 on 1st January, 1971, 6,700 on 1st January, 1972, and 8,200 on 1st April, 1972.

:Having regard to the increase in the number of Armed Forces in Northern Ireland and the continued depletion of BAOR, would my hon. Friend and his colleagues at the Ministry of Defence reconsider their earlier reply to me, refusing to raise six additional infantry battalions by bringing up to battalion strength those famous regiments of the line at present confined to company strength?

I well appreciate my hon. Friend's enthusiasm for the Army. I hope he will not think me churlish if I give him a similar reply and reject his request. After all, we are embarked on expanding four of the six representative companies and raising four battalions of infantry to help in meeting the demands placed on the Army in meeting the situation in Northern Ireland. Although units go from BAOR to Northern Ireland, we ought to keep this in perspective. Out of a total of 55,000 troops, approximately 5,000 are redeployed from BAOR to Northern Ireland in an infantry rôle.

:Is there not a considerable over-stretch at present in the infantry capability of the Army? Will my hon. Friend consider raising these battalions to help, among other things, the unemployment problem?

I do not think we ought to look to recruiting to solve the unemployment problem. People join the Army because they want to, and that is the best motivation; not because they are unemployed. But we have tried and are trying to meet the views of my hon. Friend, as I say, by expanding four new battalions of infantry.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what is the outcome of his survey of the ex-Ghanaian frigate lying in the Clyde; and whether he will now make a statement on her disposal.

:Now that arrangements to transfer ownership of the ship to Her Majesty's Government have been completed, she has been towed from the Clyde to Her Majesty's Dockyard, Portsmouth, for a survey to establish her state and value. A decision on her future will be taken when the results of the survey are available in a few months' time.

:Does my hon. Friend realise that it is now five years since I began asking Questions about this ship—this gin-palace, as it has been called—provided by British funds at the same time as the Ghanaian double bed for Nkrumah? Could we not have an expeditious settlement of this matter to prevent British funds being tied up unnecessarily in this vessel?

I am not certain which Minister is responsible for double beds. Certainly I am not. Since this ship has come into the ownership of Her Majesty's Government we are moving as fast as possible to establish what her condition is.

asked the Minister of State for Defence if he will increase the amount of compensation offered to Mr. Sidney E. Melleney in respect of property at 80 Percy Road, Hampton, until lately occupied by the Army, in view of the condition in which the property was left on the termination of the tenancy.

No, Sir. The offer has already been increased since I last wrote to my hon. Friend about this case and there are no grounds to justify any further increase. The condition of the property when we terminated the tenancy has been fully taken into account. In the interest of reaching a settlement Mr. Melleney has already received a generous offer, which he has rejected.

Does not my hon. Friend realise that this appears to be a case where the officers responsible refuse to admit that the NCO and his wife who occupied the property left it in a dirty, disgraceful and neglected condition? Is my hon. Friend aware that the claim is a modest £309? As the Army has already lifted its original bid by £75 twice, which shows second and third thoughts, whatever the rights and wrongs of the case, would not it be cheaper to meet the claim in full?

As my hon. Friend has said, we have made serious efforts to meet the demands of his constituent. Unless there are fresh arguments that my hon. Friend or his constituent can adduce, we must let the third offer stand. I think we have been very fair to him.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of those replies. Mr. Speaker, I beg to give notice that I shall seek an early opportunity to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what proposals he has to reorganise the Air Training Corps.

:There are no plans for any major reorganisation of the Air Training Corps, which is providing a most valuable service. However, as a contribution to the continued search for economy, it is proposed to reduce the number of wing headquarters by selected amalgamations. This will not involve any reduction in the number of squadrons or facilities which are available to cadets.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that reply. Is he aware of the growing disquiet in Bristol at rumours that the unit based there is to be moved? Can he assure us that a city of the size of Bristol will continue to be a base headquarters for one of these units?

The Bristol wing is the smallest in the South and West of England Region. The Gloucester wing is the smallest adjacent wing with which it could be amalgamated. This amalgama- tion will make practically no difference to the life of cadets.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what is the highest post held in his Department by a woman; how many women are in posts higher than that of assistant secretary; and from which posts are women excluded.

The highest post held by a woman in the Ministry of Defence is at assistant secretary level. The type of posts from which women have been excluded in the past, and the reasons, were given in my reply to the hon. Member for Newark (Mr. Bishop) on 10th March, 1971.—[Vol. 813, c. 128–30.]

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how many of the categories from which women were excluded, according to an answer given to my hon. Friend the Member for Wood Green (Mrs. Joyce Butler) on 22nd February last year, where it was indicated that 12 categories of work within the Defence Department excluded women, including civilian instructors, chief instructors reproduction class grade A, whatever they may be, are now open to women and how many of the assistant secretaries to whom the right hon. Gentleman has referred are women?

:I cannot answer that point specifically. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that women are only excluded from certain posts in the Ministry of Defence if by generally accepted standards it is impractical for them to carry out the work. The House will be gratified to learn that I am announcing today by a Written Answer the pay award for the Services. This carries equal pay for women a further step forward.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that there is disquiet at the lead being given by Government Departments in the equal employment of women? Will he look at this matter more carefully, in general if not in specifics, to see that women are not excluded from any jobs other than those which they are unable to carry out through physical incapacity?

:It is not only a matter of physical incapacity. The Government are anxious that women should be employed in all categories in which it is appropriate that they should be employed. However my hon. Friend will appreciate that there are certain environments in defence where it is not appropriate that women should be employed.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what representations he has had from the British Aircraft Corporation on the financing of the military requirement, in relation to a space tug and sortie module; and if he will make a statement.

None, Sir.

:Either the Department is quibbling or it is not telling the truth. The Department knows that Mr. Handel Davies of the British Aircraft Corporation has made representations. What percentage of the £250,000 that has been earmarked for the study is likely to go to the British Aircraft Corporation?

The Department is not quibbling and it is not not telling the truth. The proportion of any money devoted to studies awaits a Cabinet decision on these matters.

:On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of those replies, I beg to give notice that I shall seek an early opportunity to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of State for Defence whether he will assign battalions of the Gurkha Brigade to duty with the British Army of the Rhine.

No, Sir.

Will my hon. Friend clarify the position of the Gurkha battalion which is over here? If those troops are excluded from serving in BAOR because of treaty obligations, will my hon. Friend do his best to renegotiate them? Is he aware that a great deal of extra recruiting could be done from Nepal and that it would be a good idea if we could increase the Gurkha Brigade by having an extra battalion since that could release our troops to serve in Northern Ireland, for instance?

:The Gurkhas are deployed in the United Kingdom to help relieve the strain on British-based units. They are most helpful in that respect. As for their serving in Germany, the ideal tour is four years. So long a tour by a Gurkha unit would entail a considerable number of problems, including serious logistic ones. As regards our commitments elsewhere, the number of Gurkha battalions is five. I do not think that our commitments outside Europe, certainly in the Far East, call for more.

Will the hon. Gentleman arrange for us to have an early statement about the status of the agreement between ourselves and Nepal, about which it is readily implied there remains a good deal of ambiguity? Will he confirm that the Gurkha battalion here is doing more than ceremonial duties and that while we know the Gurkhas perform them with spectacular distinction, many people think they are best at something other than that?

They have been doing something more besides. A good example is the School of Infantry, where they have been very valuable in providing an "enemy", which helps the training of other infantry units. As for the first part of the hon. Gentleman's question, that is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary.

asked the Minister of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the future of British forces in Malta.

We plan to deploy to Malta broadly the same pattern of forces as before the withdrawal started. Detailed timings will depend on operational and logistic considerations; but we expect the bulk of our forces and their families to have returned by September.

As Mr. Mintoff originally asked for £30 million and finally received only about half, what guarantee has my right hon. Friend that the new defence agreement will not be denounced in the next year or two as the last one was?

Only the guarantee that when two sovereign States entered into a treaty arrangement that treaty will be adhered to.

Since the cost of withdrawal and return has been stated officially in another place to have been £6 million, and since that is a futile waste of money, would not it have saved time and trouble to have added that sum to the amount provided for Malta under the agreement?

I am sure the hon. Gentleman would be the last person to insist that British forces should have remained in Malta against the wishes of the Maltese Government.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what representations he has received from the French Government regarding alterations to the numbers of Anglo-French Jaguar aircraft required by the French Navy; and if he will give an assurance that there will be no change in the volume and value of the work allocated to Great Britain in this programme.

The French Government have made no such representations.

Has my hon. Friend's attention been drawn to the widespread publicity given in the French and British technical Press to impending cancellations of this French naval order? In view of the disquiet which this has aroused, will he approach the French Government and ask them to make a formal public declaration of their continued support for the order?

There is no doubt about the French Government's general support for the Jaguar order. However, the exact number they require is a matter for them. I remind my hon. Friend that production arrangements for the Jaguar are aimed at ensuring that work is shared in proportion to requirements. If, therefore, French requirements were significantly reduced, steps would be taken to correct the balance of work.

How is the Department now defining the word "representa- tions"? Is it excluding such things as letters and talks with officials?

No. My hon. Friend asked me what representations had been received from the French Government and I replied "None".

Is it not ironic that British factories should be manufacturing fixed-wing aircraft for the French Navy, but none for the Royal Navy?

I do not think so, no.

asked the Minister of State for Defence what was the accident rate per 100,000 flying hours for Royal Air Force aircraft between 1962 and 1971.

It is not the practice to publish information of this kind.

Is my hon. Friend aware that between 1962 and 1971 529 military aircraft were destroyed or severely damaged and that 440 RAF aircrew lost their lives? Does he consider that the accident rate is now of such an order that continuing official secrecy is doing more harm than frankness? Will he also tell the House whether flight data recorders are being installed in front line military aicraft.

I think my hon. Friend is being a little pessimistic. It is true that there was a small upward movement last year, but over the years there has been a downward trend in accidents. No Defence Minister could possibly be satisfied as long as there are accidents. Everything possible is being done to minimise them. My hon. Friend's point about flight data recorders is another matter.

asked the Minister of State for Defence whether the Government of France obtained the agreement of the British Government before the French naval vessel "L' Agile" entered the Port of Fishguard, following the arrest of the French trawler "Athos" for illegal fishing in British waters.

Long-standing arrangements exist between the United Kingdom and France under which agreement at governmental level is not required for visits of naval vessels where there are no ceremonial or other special features. On the United Kingdom side the detailed operation of the arrangements is the responsibility of the Ministry of Defence.

Is it not a highly unusual practice for a foreign State to send one of its warships into a British port following the arrest of a merchant vessel and the trial of its captain in that British port? Has the Under-Secretary observed that the captain of the French ship said that, though unusual, this practice might have to become normal? Will he arrange with the Foreign Office that the French Government are told that whether it becomes normal will be a decision of the British Government and not of the French Government?

The drill for fishery protection vessels like "L'Agile" is for us to be given an outline programme in advance. We are supposed to be given 24 hours notice of a call. This call was rather unusual and unscheduled. [Interruption.] I hope that I may be allowed to reply without interruption. This was an unusual and unscheduled call. We are discussing with the French authorities the circumstances in which notification might be given in future. It is quite useful to have them there as they make very good expert witnesses before the court.

asked the Minister of State for Defence when he expects to complete his study of the relative effectiveness of designing a new V/STOL aircraft for use at sea, as compared with development of the capability of the existing Harrier.

asked the Minister of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the development of a super-Harrier for naval service.

I have nothing to add to what my hon. Friend the Undersecretary of State for Defence for the Royal Navy said on 10th April.—[Vol. 834, c. 866–7.]

Does my hon. Friend really appreciate the urgency that attaches to solving this question? Does he also appreciate that without aircraft of this type and ships from which to fly them the Royal Navy will be quite unable to carry out its traditional and foremost task of protecting our overseas trade routes?

We are well aware of the urgency of this matter but, as my hon. and gallant Friend knows, there are a number of conflicting matters which have to be taken into account, and conflicting projects, and there is no point in rushing this matter. It is very important to get it right.

Will my hon. Friend explain why the makers of this aircraft maintain that it is suitable for maritime purposes and the Government maintain the opposite? What modifications need to be made to the existing Harrier, and how long would they take to make it suitable for naval operation?

What we have said all along is that the operational capability of the Harrier—that is, its weapons and other systems—must be developed if it is to perform effectively as a fighting aircraft in a maritime rôle. As my hon. Friend knows, we are considering whether the present Harrier should be given a better performance, whether another aircraft should be designed or whether either aircraft is needed for the cruiser.

In view of the continually unsatisfactory nature of replies on this subject, I beg to give notice that I shall seek an early opportunity of raising the matter on the Adjournment.