asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what reply he has given to the 2,500 retirement pensioners who have petitioned him to remove the inequity in the licensing of television for the elderly.

I am looking carefully at the arrangements for the special licence for old persons' homes and when I have done so I will write to the hon. Members for Oldham, West (Mr. Meacher) and Oldham, East (Mr. Lamond) who forwarded this petition to me.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is widespread resentment at the anomaly whereby some old people have to pay the full £7 for their television licence while others only have to pay 5p? In view of the important social function of television in old age, will the right hon. Gentleman look again at ways of recompensing the BBC for the revenue which would be lost by making television licences free for all old people?

I have already made it clear that I am looking very closely at what the hon. Gentleman describes as this anomaly. As the hon. Gentleman knows, it derives from a decision taken by the present Deputy Leader of the Opposition.

Will my right hon. Friend please recognise, new as he is to his present office, that this controversy has been going on for the last six years? Is he aware that whenever I ask about it I am fobbed off for another few months? Can he, with his characteristic alacrity, reach a determination and decision at an early date and remove all old-age pensioners from liability to the combined television and radio licence?

The latter part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question is the subject of a later Question on the Order Paper. With regard to the first part I have already indicated that I am studying the matter closely, and I will arrive at a decision when I have completed my study.

Will the right hon. Gentleman accept that his precessor was pressed for a more limited concession for many elderly people living alone in that, if the Government did not find it possible to grant a licence to all retirement pensioners for 5p only, they should at least introduce a half-price licence for old-age pensioners? The right hon. Gentleman's predecessor promised to consider the suggestion but no action has been taken.

Yes, Sir, but this is a matter which requires very careful consideration and that is why I have made it clear that I will study it and then announce a decision.

In the course of his consideration of the anomaly, will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the importance of maintaining the 5p concession for those at present enjoying it? If it is not possible to extend the 5p concession to all old-age pensioners, will he consider special categories, particularly elderly people living on their own and whose only window on the world is the television set?

That is the sort of point I am looking at.

Will the right hon. Gentleman recognise—as I am sure he will from the questions today—that there is a strong feeling on both sides of the House and in the country in favour of the proposition argued by my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham, West (Mr. Meacher)? While I recognise the difficulties and what has happened in the past, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman will request his colleagues in the Government to consider the position and, if need be, to set up a departmental inquiry into the whole question of concessions on television licences?

There is no need to press me on this matter. It is because I share the feelings expressed in the House today that I caused the inquiry to be made.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will now abolish the television licence fee.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will reduce the television licence fee.

No, Sir.

In view of the brevity of that reply I hope I may have your indulgence, Mr. Speaker, to ask my right hon. Friend whether he agrees that the BBC would be placed in a less invidious position when dealing with controversial matters if it did not depend for its income on what is virtually a tax levied by Her Majesty's Government. Would he further agree that we would think it quite disgraceful if we had to purchase theBritish Gazettepublished by the Government to have the right to read theDaily Expressor for that matter theMorning Star? This is what is happening with the BBC licence fee.

Whatever is the hon. Member talking about?

My hon. Friend will recognise that the dual system of operation, the financing of a broadcasting system by a licence fee and another system by advertising, has become established in this country. The future of broadcasting, including the method by which it should be financed, will be the subject of close study leading up to the post-1976 period.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is a wide degree of opinion in support of what my hon. Friend the Member for Epping (Mr. Tebbit) has said? Is he further aware that this anti-British Broadcasting Cor-poration—

Oh!

Get back under your stone.

—ought to consider its consumers a title more and that if it was competitive as are the ITV companies and operating under the same sanctions, it would have to listen to them?

It is competitive with the ITV companies, and it is open to anybody to look at ITV and not at BBC television if he so chooses.

Will the right hon. Gentleman ignore entirely the supplementary questions of his hon. Friends? Does he realise that many of our senior citizens are in the lower income groups? Will he consider reducing the television licence fee by at least 50 per cent. for all retired people?

The matter of the licence fee for old people is the subject of another Question on the Order Paper which I shall answer later.

Will my right hon. Friend consider how the licence fee is obtained —whether it is most efficiently obtained through the Post Office or whether it should be obtained through some other organisation at a much lower cost which could contribute to lowering the fee?

I note my hon. Friend's suggestion. The cost of collection is about £9 million to yield a revenue of about £122 million.

Does the right lion. Gentleman agree that the BBC should receive a grant in aid in respect of its superb work in educational and, in particular. school broadcasting?

There is a certain amount of uncertainty about grants in aid which I do not think the BBC would welcome.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what reply he has sent to the petition from residents of Leicester asking for a reduction in the television licence fee for retirement pensioners.

I shall be confirming what I told the deputation which the hon. and learned Member brought to see me, that it has never been the policy of any Government to grant cheap licences to all retirement pensioners.

Is the Minister aware that television is no longer a luxury for elderly people, many of whom depend upon it for their sole companionship? Does he not think it grossly unfair that an elderly person living off his inadequate old-age pension should pay the same licence fee as a well-off person who has several television sets, one of which is probably a colour set? Will the Minister give new consideration to the views of the 18,000-odd signatories to the petition which representatives of the Leicester Old Folks Supporters Association and I presented to him?

The right way to further the interests of retired people is through the medium of the cash benefits of the old-age pension and other social security formulæ.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will give a general direction to the Post Office Corporation to publicise as widely as possible aids available under its auspices to assist quicker telephone dialling.

No, Sir. The scale of publicity is for the Post Office to decide, and it assures me that suitable publicity is already given to these aids.

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that the failure rate of local calls in certain London exchanges is as bad as the STD failure rate and that all we are getting is snap, crackle and pop? Since this involves dialling one, two, three, four and even five times, the Post Office should do something to advertise to the general public the quicker dialling aids which are available under its own auspices.

This is a matter for the Post Office. It is very much alive to the need to ensure improved dialling but, as the hon. Gentleman himself well knows, even the speeding up of dialling is not itself the complete answer, because the introduction of new aids also depends on the standard of exchange equipment available.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will make representations to the International Telecommunications Union concerning difficulties customarily caused to persons telephoning Jewish people in the United Soviet Socialist Republic outside Moscow from the United Kingdom.

I have no evidence that the International Telecommunication Convention is being contravened in the way the hon. and learned Member has suggested.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that considerable difficulties are incurred by those who try to telephone Jewish citizens of the Soviet Union in places such as Kiev, Kharkov, Minsk, Leningrad and other cities outside Moscow? If he is given specific evidence of breaches of the convention will he be good enough, as his predecessor did in other circumstances, to undertake to raise these with the authorities? Will he also be good enough to convey to his operators who work on the Continental exchange the deep appreciation of those who use the Moscow service for their tact, patience and courtesy in the very difficult circumstances created for them by the Moscow operators?

I am grateful for the last comments of the hon. and learned Gentleman and I will certainly pass them on to the people concerned. I can assure the hon. and learned Gentleman that any evidence he cares to put before me on this matter will be studied with the utmost seriousness.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will seek to amend the Post Office Act, 1969, to allow for pensioners and other similiar organisations to have a statutory right of representation on local Post Office advisory committees.

No, Sir. The committees are voluntary and independent bodies, and it would not be appropriate for any particular organisation to have a statutory right of representation on them.

While I accept to some extent what my right hon. Friend has said may I ask him in turn to accept that the major customer of the Post Office is the Department of Health and Social Security? Is he aware that when there is a proposal to close a sub-post office the old-age pensioners and others who are seriously affected by sudden changes in the places where they get their pensions and who are often put to great inconvenience are not consulted because the local Post Office advisory committees are almost entirely commercially composed? If the Minister cannot introduce legislation, could he drop a hint to the Post Office Users' National. Council that it should extend the representation on these committees?

The Post Office exercises considerable care in the closing of sub-post offices. I am sure my hon. Friend will have been heartened by the views expressed on this subject the day before yesterday by the Managing Director of Posts. These are important issues. My hon. Friend would be well advised to suggest to old-age pensioner organisations that they can make their own approaches direct to the users' council concerned.

Would the right hon. Gentleman agree that his hon. Friend has made an extremely valid point? Is he aware that if he consults the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act, 1970, he will find that it is incumbent upon him to have such representation? Can we who have done some work in this area assure the Minister that these committees would be stronger and much more representative if he acted on the advice he has received from his hon. Friend?

The original Question was concerned with the advisory committees which are non-statutory bodies. That is a matter for local choice. As for the statutory body, the Post Office Users' National Council, any organisation can make direct representations to it. There are no vacancies on the council at present.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what is the annual value of public contracts placed by the Post Office Corporation; and what proportion of those sanctioned by him are placed in special development areas.

The Post Office tells me that the total value of all contracts awarded in 1970-71, the last year for which information is available, was £384 million. The placing of individual contracts is a matter for the Post Office but I understand that a considerable proportion of telecommunications equipment is manufactured in special development areas.

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that special development areas such as Coatbridge and Airdrie rely a great deal on the Post Office Corporation for employment? Will he convey my personal thanks on behalf of the firms and workers in my constituency for the opportunities we receive? Will he continue to prevail upon the corporation to place the maximum number of contracts in such special development areas since this is one of the most effective ways of minimising the unemployment problem which is so serious in my locality?

I am sure that the Post Office will be grateful for the hon. Gentleman's remarks. He will recognise that it is for the Post Office to place contracts and it is for the individual firms concerned to decide where the product is to be manufactured.

Would my right hon. Friend agree that there is surplus capacity in this country which could be used and that one of the reasons why it is not being used is that his Department goes far too much in leaps and starts without a steady development and investment? Will he think of going to the market to raise money for these investments, which show a good return, instead of leaving it to the public to find the money by increased charges? Is he aware that if this were done we could get a steady advance in telecommunications?

I can assure my right hon. Friend that the forward requirements of the Post Office indicate a steady and increasing demand for equipment. The second part of his question is another matter.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will issue a general direction to the Post Office Corporation to give details of the steps available to the staff associations in their endeavours to obtain official recognition by the corporation.

No, Sir. A direction would not be appropriate. This is a management matter for the Post Office.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the Telecommunications Staff Association, a constructive and reasonable association of employees within the postal services, is having great problems in negotiating with the Post Office over recognition? Does he consider that this is the spirit and intent of the Industrial Relations Act?

The association has recently referred its case for recognition to the National Industrial Relations Court under the Act. In this situation comment would not be appropriate.

While accepting that this matter is essentially one for the corporation, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman to discourage the corporation from encouraging recognition of new associations and trade unions which can serve only to undermine existing staff associations and trade unions which have served the Post Office and the nation so well?

No, Sir. There is established machinery for dealing with this and under the Industrial Relations Act it is open to anyone claiming recognition to appeal to the court. This procedure has been put into effect in the present case and we ought to see how that proceeds.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications when he expects to announce the appointment of a new chairman of the British Broadcasting Corporation.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications when he now expects to announce the new chairman of the Governors of the British Broadcasting Corporation.

I have nothing to add to my predecessor's reply on 9th February to my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast, North (Mr. Stratton Mills).—[Vol. 830, c. 1319.]

Will my right hon. Friend accept that broadcasting is an area in which policy decisions are urgently required and that the sooner this appointment is made the better? Will he also accept that when it is made it would be better to go not to a person on the point of retirement, however eminent he may be, but to a young man at the height of his power?

I accept the first part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question. I take note of the second.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications when he expects to announce the appointment of a committee of inquiry into broadcasting.

I have nothing to add to my predecessor's reply of 1st March to the hon. Member.—[Vol. 832, c. 396.]

Does the Minister realise that the broadcasting organisations are maintaining, quite rightly, that an inquiry should report in 1974 if the restructuring is to be done by 1976? Will he therefore say when he will bring forward the inquiry and if he will not make any decision about it, as his predecessor failed to do, and since two years have been lost, will he postpone the restructuring of broadcasting in 1976?

I hope to be in a position to announce a decision shortly. I am aware of the need to come to an early conclusion in the matter.

When the right hon. Gentleman is thinking about this matter, will he bear in mind that the pressure for an inquiry is coming not only from this side of the House but from many consumers outside? If a start is not made quickly, we in the House will not have the information on which to base a proper judgment in 1976.

I note what the hon. Gentleman has said. However, the main need is to come to a decision about the future of broadcasting after 1976 and that, as I have indicated, will need to be taken considerably before that time.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will make a statement on the reasons for the delay in introducing subscriber trunk dialling and on the revised programme for its introduction.

While there have been difficulties in adapting new exchange systems, 93 per cent. of telephone customers now have subscriber trunk dialling facilities. The Post Office hopes to complete its STD programme by the end of 1974.

Will the Minister confirm that there has been a delay in and a setback to the programme for the Highlands of Scotland? Bearing in mind the importance of a proper telecommunications system to industrial and economic development in the area, will he do all in his power to advance the date?

There has been special difficulties there, as the hon. Gentleman has indicated. But 89 per cent. of customers in Scotland as a whole already have STD facilities and the same target for completion by 1974 is the Post Office's aim.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will give a general direction to the Post Office Corporation to limit the size of stamps when future new issues are being introduced.

This is a matter for the Post Office and a direction would be inappropriate.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, although postage stamps seem to be getting rather larger, we would nevertheless like to congratulate the Post Office on the way in which the stamps illustrate various historic occasions? May I suggest that postage stamps should become smaller? Then it would be a good thing if the Post Office issued a stamp depicting some historic building in Rutland, say the castle, so that people might see why this county should remain a district of its own?

I have no doubt that the Post Office will note my hon. Friend's interesting suggestion.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will make a statement indicating what estimates he has made of the effect which the introduction of the value added tax will have on the finances of the Post Office Corporation.

Telephone charges would attract the standard rate of tax but any effect on the finances of the postal business and hence on postal charges would be marginal.

Can the Minister confirm the estimate that value added tax will impose a financial burden of £40 million on the Post Office telephone service and that this financial albatross, which will add about 10 per cent. to every telephone subscriber's account, is an imposition?

No. I confirm the hon. Gentleman's figures to the extent that private telephone users will pay an additional 10 per cent. But the impact on the finances of the corporation as a whole will be marginal.

Can the right hon. Gentleman confirm that this is yet a further "benefit" which we shall get from going into the Common Market?

No, because, as the hon. Gentleman well knows, the decision about the introduction of value added tax would have been taken whether or not we were moving towards the Common Market; it will of course replace other taxes already in existence.

We hoped that by now the right hon. Gentleman would have been able to make a very precise estimate of the increase in telephone charges resulting from value added tax. By how much would the CBI figure of 5 per cent. be exceeded if one lumped together the recent possible increase in charges and the charges we have heard about today?

I am sorry I cannot answer that question now. If I have the information available, I will answer it. As the hon. Gentleman knows, however, most of these detailed matters about the tax depend on the way in which it is to be put into effect, and decisions on that have not yet been taken.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what is his estimate of the effect on telephone calling rates of the imposition of value added tax.

Detailed forecasts of this nature are a matter for the Post Office, which tells me that it does not expect VAT to be particularly significant among the many factors which affect calling rates.

Is the Minister aware that, on his own admission, value added tax will increase the costs to the residential subscriber by at least 10 per cent.? Is the Minister not aware that the cost of making telephone calls is a matter of some concern to those with an interest in the Post Office? Is the right hon. Gentleman not further aware that one of the great difficulties which the Post Office faces is the low calling rate by residential subscribers in this country?

I do not believe that this will have any direct effect in itself on the calling rate, and I think that we shall see that in practice.

Will my right hon. Friend consider whether all postal and telecommunications services should officially and statutorily be designated zero-rated, thereby removing all possibility in any circumstances of their attracting value added tax?

I think that exemption, which allows rebating, will be found to be less onerous than zero-rating to the Post Office as a whole.

The right hon. Gentleman must be aware that this is bound to have an adverse effect on the calling rate. He has promised, as have the officials of the Post Office, to do everything possible to increase the calling rate. If there is to be a minimum increase of 10 per cent. plus the 3½ per cent. that is under consideration, the effect on the calling rate will be serious.

No, Sir, I do not believe that that will be the case.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will issue a general direction to the Post Office to include in the annual report and accounts reports from the Council of Post Office Unions.

No, Sir. This is not an appropriate matter for a direction.

Is the Minister aware that the annual report of the Post Office would be more balanced if it included sections of the reports of the trade unions and users' councils? Is he further aware that the experiment along these lines conducted by my right hon. Friend the Member for Bristol, South-East (Mr. Benn) was very successful?

It is for the Post Office Corporation to include in its report the material it thinks appropriate.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the extremely generous offer of the members of the Post Office Engineering Union to install telephones under Section 2(1)(h) of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act, 1970, in their own time and without pay? Is he also aware of the difficulty about industrial injuries cover? What is he doing to solve this problem?

I have seen the report inThe Guardian.It deals with a totally different question from that on the Order Paper. I have no doubt that this matter could be satisfactorily resolved by discussions between the men concerned or their representatives and the Post Office Corporation.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications how many people are currently waiting for a telephone.

According to the Post Office, 218,000 at the end of March, 1972, of whom about 209,000 were residential applicants.

May I draw my right hon. Friend's attention to the situation in my own constituency? It is Government policy to encourage both industrial and housing development there and yet the Post Office is barely able to keep pace. Would my right hon. Friend therefore arrange for greater resources to be placed at the disposal of the Bedfordshire authorities?

I am aware of the position in my hon. Friend's constituency where there are now 1,737 applicants waiting for telephone service. The majority of these are on the Leagrave exchange. The Post Office expects to provide service for most of these applicants by August this year.

Will the right hon. Gentleman tell the Post Office to explain in future when supplying telephones to applicants that they will now have to pay an extra 10 per cent. in value added tax, which is part of the efforts of the Government to keep down the inflationary spiral?

No, Sir. The Post Office scale of charges is already well known.

Can my right hon. Friend tell me of any other organisation whose supplies are so far behind demand? Can nothing be done to satisfy this demand?

As I made clear the last time this question was raised in the House, I am discussing urgently the way in which it is best to tackle the backlog. I have had talks so far with representatives of industry, with my colleagues and with the Post Office Corporation.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will make a statement on the award to a Swedish firm of a £14 million order for Post Office equipment which he sanctioned.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what purchases from abroad he has sanctioned of Post Office equipment; and in what circumstances he is prepared to sanction such purchases.

I would refer the hon. and right hon. Members to the reply I gave to the right hon. Member for Sunderland, North (Mr. Willey) on 3rd May. The placing of individual contracts is primarily a matter for the Post Office, which is currently spending about £400 million a year with British industry.—[Vol. 836, c. 146.]

Is it not the case that the answer is the complete failure of the private enterprise companies which supply the Post Office with its equipment and that, despite the denials of the Minister, the ring still exists? Is it not the case that this is why the Post Office has to go abroad to get this expensive equipment at a time when there is so much unemployment in this country and people could be employed to produce the equipment here?

The reasons are varied and various, including the difficulty of adapting the system, the difficulty of getting buildings completed on time and the results of industrial disputes in some of the factories, not least those in Scotland. But the reason why this order had to be placed was the anticipated growing demand in the international telecommunications services, particularly to Europe.

Is the Minister aware that his first concern ought to be unemployment and that the loss of 2,000 jobs in the development areas is a very serious blow? Can he say whether he has brought any pressure to bear in Ericsson's to open up a plant in this country to provide employment for our own people in the development areas?

The major need here is to ensure that we have a steadily improving telecommunications service in this country, and one has to look ahead to the expected growth in demand and to provide as efficiently as possible to meet that on time.

Is not the attack made by hon. Members opposite on British industry in this case grossly unfair in view of the fact that the companies which are supplying British telephones to the Post Office are also exporting very substantially abroad?

I confirm that that is so.

I think the Minister will be aware that while we on this side have every sympathy with the Post Office in its dilemma nevertheless it is very disappointing when the private sector fails to win a contract of this kind. We would like the Minister to be a bit more specific and to say why this order was placed—whether it was on price or delivery or was because of the unwillingness of British suppliers to provide this kind of equipment? May I push the right hon. Gentleman a little further on one other thing? In the near future when the Post Office is reaching final decisions about future equipment, will he encourage the Post Office to do what the 1969 Act allows it to do—that is, enter into the manufacturing field on its own account?

I do not think such a suggestion would be helpful in the circumstances. With regard to the first part of the hon. Gentleman's question, the Post Office came to its decision in the light of the various circumstances which it had to examine when considering the best way to meet the anticipated demand.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will refer to the Post Office Users' National Council the computerised system of recording and charging for telephone calls in view of the fact that certain subscribers have been charged for calls they have not made.

The Post Office itself recently asked the Post Office Users' National Council to look into its arrangements for metering telephone calls.

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is esssential in these matters to have not only a high degree of accuracy but absolute accuracy in charging for telephone calls?

Yes, I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. It is because there have been doubts about this that the Post Office has asked the users' council to look into the whole of this question.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will issue a general direction to the Post Office instructing it to cease the practice of demanding a deposit from private sub- scribers in certain localities when they apply for a telephone to be installed.

No, Sir. The decision to seek a deposit is a matter for the Post Office which, I understand, gives discretion to local managers in individual cases.

Does the Minister realise that this is discrimination of a most unfair kind when the charge for installation is now going up to £35 from £25 as from Monday, and that to demand a deposit in addition makes the cost almost prohibitive to the most needy of people?

This is a difficult matter. One has to recognise that there is a very large amount of money outstanding as a result of bad debts. I know that this is a matter which is very closely watched, and I am sure that the Post Office uses its powers with maximum discretion.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what recent use he has made of his powers under clause 13 of the British Broadcasting Corporation Licence and Agreement.

None. The directions requiring the BBC to refrain from broadcasting its own opinions on matters of Public policy, and programmes using subliminal techniques, remain in force.

That answer is because my right hon. Friend, like his predecessors, quite rightly, assumes that the British Broadcasting Corporation is responsible for what it broadcasts; but on the rare occasions on which complaints are made that it acts irresponsibly, what cure is there? Can my right hon. Friend tell us what duties in such circumstances under the Licence and Agreement devolve upon him?

It is the long-standing practice for the Government to be extremely careful about intervening in matters of programme content. I am sure that the best way of making individual views known about a particular programme or about the general tenor of programmes is for those views to be directed to the governing body of the British Broadcasting Corporation which has the major responsibility for these matters.

While endorsing entirely what the Minister has said, may I ask whether he will accept that there has been considerable concern recently over the failure to observe section 12 of the Licence, as some would contend? Will he call for a report from the director general or the chairman of the Governors of the British Broadcasting Corporation relating to the contracts drawn up with the Time-Life organisation before advertisements were recently transmitted by the BBC?

Section 12 is a totally different matter from the subject of this Question.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications when the Post Office Corporation hopes to complete its review of postal mechanisation.

This is primarily a matter for the Post Office which, I understand has decided to continue with a programme of mechanisation.

I accept that this is primarily a matter for the Post Office Corporation, but will not the Minister agree that there has been lethargy in proceeding with the postal mechanisation programme, and will he use his influence with the Post Office Corporation to expedite the mechanisation of the postal system?

I do not find any lethargy on the part of the Post Office Corporation; rather do I find a desire to promote the maximum possible efficiency in the Post Office commensurate with good management of its resources.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will now set up an inquiry into the need for an independent broadcasting council to hear complaints from the public.

No. I do not think any separate inquiry is necessary.

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that the public should have the right of appeal to a tribunal? If he will not set up an inquiry, will he at least confirm that the door is not closed to his re-examination of the case for a tribunal?

I was not announcing a decision on the merits of the case. I was merely saying that it is not necessary to have an inquiry to arrive at a decision.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what subjects he will seek to place on the agenda of the Stockholm Conference on the Environment.

An agenda has been prepared by the United Nations Conference Secretariat centred upon a plan for action on those environmental matters commanding the widest world interest. The Government look to the conference in particular for progress towards a global convention on marine pollution, the establishment of a workmanlike system for the exchange of environmental information and a dispassionate examination of major environmental issues.

Will the Minister raise at the Stockholm conference the subject of industrial obsolescence and the pollution problems connected with it? Many parts of the country suffer terribly from age-old industrial pollution, which is also a problem throughout Europe.

Yes, Sir. One of the major papers pat in by the British Government will deal with many aspects of this problem.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he is satisfied with the administrative arrangements within his Department for co-ordination in the answering of hon. Members' letters and parliamentary Questions.

Yes, Sir. But in handling some 350,000 letters a month that come into the Department over 2,000 of which come from hon. Members—and about 500 parliamentary Questions, delays and mistakes do occur. I regret that we have had to apologise to the hon. Member on two occasions for mistakes that affected him.

Does the Minister realise that on one of the occasions when he apologised to me he asked me to table another parliamentary Question so that he could correct his first answer, and when I tabled that Question his answer referred me to the previous answer?

I give a double apology.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he is satisfied with the system of classification of motorways and trunk roads in Great Britain; and if he will make a statement.

The present system of defining motorways and trunk roads seems to be well understood by motorists but the classification system is kept under continuous review.

Assuming that one of the main purposes of the classification of roads is to assist road users, will my hon. Friend seriously and carefully consider the possibility of a new category of road classification between the motorways and the "A" trunk routes, which might consist of two-lane motorways on the one hand and long and good stretches of A-class roads on the other and might be called associated motorways?

I think we have to be careful here. There are already short sections of motorway forming part of all-purpose roads which are "A" classification and have an "M "suffix, but I will consider my hon. Friend's proposal.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will list the major road development proposals for the London Borough of Wandsworth that are now under consideration by his Department.

As the answer is in the form of a tabular statement I will, with permission, circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT a list of major schemes, each estimated to cost more than £250,000, which are under consideration by the Department.

I warmly welcome that reply. but is not the hon. Gentleman aware that in Wandsworth we continually hear of major road proposals that will destroy housing and open spaces but, in spite of all the talk about consultation, the first we ever know about them is as the result of direct local pressure to find out what is taking place? Will the hon. Gentleman ensure that in future the fullest consultation takes place with local residents so that they know what is proposed in the areas in which they live?

Yes, but these schemes are metropolitan highway schemes. The highway authority is the Greater London Council, which is responsible for submitting details to the Department. I will take notice of what the hon. Gentleman says.

asked the Lord President of the Council, if he will arrange to set back the proposed new parliamentary building a sufficient distance to allow for an additional lane of eastbound traffic in Bridge Street, Westminster.

asked the Lord President of the Council if he will make a statement about the choice of design for the new parliamentary building, and the date of commencement of works.

I have been asked to reply, and I wish to convey to the House the apologies of my right hon. Friend the Lord President of the Council, who is indisposed.

Will my hon. Friend ask the Services Committee to consider setting back the building to allow for an extra traffic lane? Does he not think it would be sensible to use the opportunity of the reconstruction of the buildings to take action to relieve the traffic congestion in the area of Parliament Square generally?

I am sure that the Services Committee will consider both those points, and in particular the question of the extra traffic lane.

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his reply, but will he bear in mind the concern in the architectural profession that the architects of the winning design are being blamed for the brief they were given, which they were obviously told to hold to? Will he consider an early decision on the building and also the possibility of a debate at the earliest opportunity after Whitsun?

It would be superfluous for me to assure the House that there will be a debate. This is such an important matter that there will certainly be a debate upon it. I will not poach upon my right hon. Friend's prerogative and suggest a date, but it will certainly be at some stage after we receive the report of the Services Committee.

Are the Government paying heed to the observations of the Greater London Council, which has many reservations about what the Government intend to do, in particular about the horrible idea of a five-deck car park in New Palace Yard which the GLC thinks should be nearer Victoria Tower?

This is not a matter for the Government. The Services Committee of the House is examining it and it will be a matter for the House.

Is my hon. Friend aware that many of us feel that not only should this project be set back in position but that it should be set back into the far distant future?

I am sure that the Services Committee will note the comment of my hon. Friend.

We must of course debate the matter in the House, but is it not impossible to have a serious debate upon the proposal for this building without knowing what, if anything, is proposed for the new Home Office building and the Scotland Yard and Richmond Terrace site? The Government have had the report of the inspector who held the inquiry into that site for about a year and a half. When are we likely to have that information?

The right hon. Gentleman raises very much wider points, but I assure him that the Services Committee is seized of the urgency of this matter, and I am informed that it expects to report shortly after Whitsun.

Does my hon. Friend agree that this matter must be looked at in the perspective of the environmental effect of the whole of the surrounding area and therefore is not only a domestic matter, important though that may be, for the House of Commons or the Houses of Parliament?

My right hon. and learned Friend raises an important matter, and I am certain that the Services Committee will also take these wider considerations into account.

Reverting to the question of an extra traffic lane in Bridge Street, is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Services Committee has already taken the view that in the long run there should be no traffic at all in Bridge Street, far less an extra traffic lane?

This must await the report of the Services Committee. Obviously this is a matter which will be considered.

asked the Lord President of the Council whether he is yet in a position to make a statement denoting the accommodation arrangements for a minimum of 400 motor cars, driven by Members of Parliament, which is the agreed number to be accommodated on occasions of three line Whips on both sides of the House, during the construction of the underground car park in Palace Yard from summer 1972 to summer 1973 when accommodation for only 100 motor cars will be available within the precincts of the Palace of Westminster.

I have been asked to reply.

I recognise the hard work carried out by the Services Committee in this important matter, but will my hon. Friend have regard to the fact that the proposals contained in the report suggest that more than 70 per cent. of the space to be provided is at Broad Sanctuary? Since this is some distance away from New Palace Yard and hon. Members will be gravely inconvenienced in reaching the Division Lobbies and may well miss Divisions because of traffic congestion, will not this cause some discomfiture to the Patronage Secretary? Therefore, will my hon. Friend recommend to the Patronage Secretary and the Opposition Chief Whip that the length of a Division should temporarily be extended from seven to 10 minutes in order to accommodate all those aggravated Members who will be some distance away in their cars?

The critical period is only in the two months of November and December later this year when the parking spaces in New Palace Yard will be temporarily reduced from 100 to about 25. I hope that I may ask for the forbearance of hon. Members in appreciating this point in Divisions just before Christmas. I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Patronage Secretary and the Opposition Chief Whip will share the general desire not to have a three-line Whip at 10 o'clock in November and December.

Since I have not yet had the benefit of seeing the report of the Services Committee, may I ask the hon. Gentleman to say whether the Committee considered the suggestion made by the Motor Club that the Old Scotland Yard parking facilities would be available, if only temporarily, for Members of Parliament because that would help the position? Does he not appreciate that there is a large car park there which could be used by hon. Members?

I am told that the Services Committee considered that matter, and the car park to which the hon. Member refers is not available during this period. One of the main recommendations of the Services Committee is to ask the servants of the House to forgo 60 of their places in Old Palace Yard, for which I am sure we shall be grateful.

Is my hon. Friend aware that it has been suggested that the construction of the new car park will threaten the foundations of Westminster Hall? Is he satisfied that this is not the case?

I am sure that the architects and the Services Committee who have been advising on these matters are satisfied that this will not occur.

asked the Lord President of the Council whether he is aware that Members and their secretaries are accommodated in rooms on the Upper Committee corridors of the House, and that the Rank Xerox copying machines are situated on the interview floor, entailing loss of time in essential copying of Parliamentary documents; and whether he will arrange installation of a copying machine in an alcove in the corridors referred to.

I have been asked to reply.

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind the great distances now involved owing to the extension of Members' accommodation, which means that secretaries and hon. Members have to travel excessive distances on foot if they wish to photocopy a document? Since secretarial charges are set against tax, the revenue is thereby being diminished on account of wasted time for Members and their secretaries. Could not the Government buck up and install this machine next week?

The machine could be put in next week, but there are certain regulations which have to be followed, particularly in regard to fire precautions, and this requires some degree of supervision. Arrangements are being made with the assistance of the HANSARD office. Since my hon. Friend has a great concern for any increase in the number of Government employees, I am sure he would not want a special supervisor to be specifically employed in looking after one machine in the corridor to which the Question refers.

asked the Lord President of the Council if he will move for a Select Committee to examine the ways by which appointments are made to the staff, at all levels, in the House of Commons.

I have been asked to reply.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this question was last looked at in 1954 and, if so, has he read that report? Does he recognise that it revealed a morass of nepotism in this House and that a large proportion of it still exists? Can he assure the House that the Government, by whatever means in their power, will take early steps to en- sure that all appointments in this House are within the control of this House and are not the perks of the Armed Services or any other body?

I must refute completely the allegation that the appointment of officials of this House is part of a morass of nepotism. This is simply not the case. The great majority of appointments of staff are made through the normal recruiting procedures in which the Civil Service is involved. If the hon. Member has in mind, as I am sure he has, the appointment of the Serjeant at Arms, I would remind him that Mr. Macmillan made clear in 1962 that in regard to future appointments informal discussions would take place with Mr. Speaker.

asked the Lord President of the Council whether he will make it a practice of his Administration in cases where material is made available to the Press in advance of a statement being made in the House, that such material is made available at the same time to hon. Members.

I have been asked to reply.

Does not the hon. Gentleman feel it would be better if there were informed comment and answer to such statements and that it would be better for the country if such material as was available to the Press was made available to the Vote Office? Is it not a curious doctrine in regard to the availability of material that members of the Press should be regarded as more trustworthly than Members of the House?

I remind the hon. Gentleman that we are following a precedent set by previous Governments. The Government's aim is to be as helpful as possible to hon. Members. Ministers normally endeavour to inform the House of such material before it is published in the Press.

Does not my hon. Friend appreciate that this is one of the more deplorable precedents set by a previous Administration, and does he not realise that many of us would have preferred the present Government to have made a fresh start in this direction?

I assure my hon. Friend that each Minister tries to be as helpful as possible in this regard and we have tried to make a small improvement in this matter in the last two years.

asked the Lord President of the Council if he will propose an amendment to Standing Orders so that the Question on a Bill which has been discussed on previous occasions shall, if the Bill is reintroduced, be put after not more than two hours' debate.

I have been asked to reply.

While thanking the hon. Gentleman for that reply, may I ask whether he accepts, regardless of whether it is reasonable or unreasonable, that although a Measure may be talked out once it is monstrous that it should be possible for it to happen on several occasions as occurred, for example, to the Hare Coursing Bill? Does not the hon. Gentleman agree that it would be reasonable to make an amendment to procedure so that the Chair, in deciding whether to accept a closure, could have regard to the amount of time spent on previous occasions, thus ensuring that the will of the House was not frustrated by a minority?

The hon. Gentleman raises very important constitutional points, going right back to the seventeenth century, the continuity of legislation and the desirability of not having a carry-forward. I have no doubt that the Procedure Committee will note what the hon. Gentleman has said.

Will my hon. Friend reconsider this attitude? Surely this matter is one involving the exercise of your discretion, Mr. Speaker. It cannot be the function of the Select Committee on Procedure to inquire into or give directions to Mr. Speaker about how he exercises his discretion on the closure.

This is one aspect of the question asked by the hon. Member for Paddington, North (Mr. Latham). He is also raising the question of the continuity of legislation from session to session and from Parliament to Parliament. That has deep constitutional implications.