asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications how many television dealers have so far been fined for failing to supply information required under the Wireless and Telegraphy Act, 1967, since that Act came into force.

Four, with one appeal outstanding.

May I draw the right hon. Gentleman's attention to the case of Mr. Bernard Weather all, a television dealer, who announced on 14th June that he would go to gaol rather than submit to the fines levied on him? Is not that one small example of the extraordinary ham-handedness caused by the methods forced on the Post Office of collecting the present licence fee and checking on offenders? Is it not time we abolished this absurdly regressive tax and went over to paying for public service broadcasting out of general taxation?

This is a Question about evasion rather than about the future of the licence fee, as the hon. Gentleman recognises. I am sure all people know that they must obey the law of the land, and I pay tribute to the work of the dealers for the support they have given in this respect.

I hope that the Minister recognises the importance of the point made by my hon. Friend. Evasions, concessions and so on are bound up with the present licence fee and the method of financing, and we hope that the right hon. Gentleman will look at the whole question of the financing of the BBC in the public sector.

:With respect that is another question, but if it will help the hon. Gentleman I remind him that I have answered that question before, to the effect that I am looking at all these matters.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications when he intends to seek parliamentary approval for increased borrowing powers for the Post Office.

Not in this Session.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that he should provide more money for the Post Office in order to improve the lousy telephone service that we have? The right hon. Gentleman gave me some figures which prove completely what he must know. Is he aware that the 3 per cent. failure rate for local calls and the 8 per cent. STD failure rate are completely inaccurate, and will he now go so far as to withdraw completely any kind of advertising of ISD facilities, which are a complete and utter farce?

The question of borrowing powers does not have a direct effect on the forward investment programme. This is a matter for further consideration.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications (1) if he will indicate the amount of interest being paid annually to the Government by the Post Office in respect of borrowing to finance the deficit on postal services;

In 1970–71 the postal business incurred interest charges of £18 million, 4 per cent. of expenditure on revenue account, including some £8 million for deficit finance. Capital expenditure to increase long-term efficiency was £34 million.

:Will the right hon. Gentleman accept that this is more than just an immediate problem? In view of what he has said it is clear that the more funds that have to be returned in the form of interest charges and loan repayments, the less funds there are available for increasing and improving the long-term efficiency of the industry, and this cannot be unrelated to the previous Question which the Minister has just answered. Will he undertake to study this problem closely in order to resolve the difficulty in which the postal service is finding itself?

There is some confusion behind the hon. Gentleman's question. The loss was £70 million in the year of the postal strike. Interest charges are not of dominating importance, because 75 per cent. of expenditure goes in labour costs and capital expenditure is not charged to revenue and, therefore, did not affect the loss in that year.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the high level of interest charges imposed by the Treasury causes concern throughout the Post Office? There is a belief that with high interest charges, which could increase again with the rise in Bank Rate, the financial problems of the Post Office will become more severe than they ought to be.

No, Sir. I do not think that the latter part of the hon. Gentleman's question follows. He will know from the 1970–71 report and accounts that the figure for interest rates in that year was about 6·8 per cent.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will make a statement indicating when he hopes to conclude his discussions with the Chairman of the Post Office Corporation about the Post Office's current financial deficit.

I have nothing at present to add to the replies I gave to similar Questions on 7th June.—[Vol. 838, c. 426.]

Bearing in mind the estimated shortfall of £180 million in the quinquennial financial targets for the Post Office, and bearing in mind the loss on the postal services of £72 million last year and an estimated £39 million this year, does the Minister expect that the Government will write off the Post Office's deficit? Does he envisage that they will propose economies in the postal services? Indeed, is the 5p post to become a reality?

I cannot anticipate the results of discussions which are still in progress.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications when he will state the levels of future investment in the Post Office.

They will be included in this year's White Paper on Public Expenditure.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many of us on this side of the House are hoping that the level of investment will be sufficient to bring about the ending of the waiting list for telephones? Is he also aware that we are also wanting to see the levels of investment go up so as to provide the best quality telephone service possible?

I accept the latter part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question and agree with him that that is clearly an objective, but I cannot give a firm answer to the first part of his question although it is certainly the intention progressively to cut into the waiting list.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will give a general direction to the Post Office to introduce special rates for telephone charges for state midwives on 24-hour standby duty.

No, Sir. This is a management matter for the Post Office.

That is a most discouraging reply, and makes Ebeneza Scrooge seem like Lady Bountiful. Does the right hon. Gentleman understand the magnificent service which British State midwives give to the community as a whole? My investigations show that when they are on stand-by duty and have to be telephoned to rush somewhere to assist in the birth of a child, one of the things which perturbs them is that they cannot afford a telephone. Will the right hon. Gentleman please look at the question again and make a further, more enlightened statement later?

I was not invited to comment on the quality of the service. That would be more appropriate for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services than for me. The provision of telephones is a matter for the Post Office.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will introduce legislation to amend the Television Act, 1964, to allow the British Broadcasting Corporation to show programmes sponsored by advertisers.

No, Sir. I am not prepared to allow sponsored programmes on either BBC or ITV.

:Is the Minister aware that sponsored programmes are already taking place? What is the difference? Gillette, John Player, Bass Charrington and firms such as these are sponsoring tournaments which are then shown at almost full length by the BBC. Surely all that is needed is a short announcement at the end saying "This programme was brought to you by courtesy of the sponsors." Could not the BBC raise funds in that way?

The programmes to which the hon. Gentleman has referred were no doubt selected for presentation over the media by the broadcasting authorities because of the general interest that it was felt the public would have in seeing those activities. Sponsorship places the advertiser in the position of being able to influence the programme content. That is not so in the way in which the hon. Gentleman has indicated.

In this context will the Minister draw the attention of the BBC to the fact that hon. Members on all sides of the House would strongly deplore the possibility of further BBC co-operation with Time-Life, which is rumoured, in view of the disgraceful way in which Time-Life has had influence in the content of programmes as well as getting splashes on the BBC?

That is slightly another question, which has been dealt with previously in the House. My predecessor examined that matter very closely and concluded that the BBC was not in breach of its charter or agreement.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that some of us deplore this constant sniping at the BBC? Sponsorship of sporting events is the modern trend. If there was no sponsorship there would be no such events.

What is being sponsored is the activity, performance, the sport or whatever it may happen to be. It is not in any way influencing the choice of programme, or content of the programme, by the broadcasting authority.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what representations he has received in recent weeks concerning his powers under section 12 of the British Broadcasting Corporation Licence and Charter.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what recent representations he has received relating to the exercise of his powers under the British Broadcasting Corporation Licence and Agreement; and what replies he has sent.

None.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, despite the obvious fact that he has no direct powers on programme content, on 2nd June there was a most disturbing programme on "24 Hours" on BBC television which gave a totally biased, unbalanced view of Concorde's future prospects and an assessment of the Concorde aircraft was made in a knocking film in typical BBC style? Will my right hon. Friend look again at his powers and discuss with the Director-General ways of making BBC programmes on this and other vital matters more balanced in the future?

I am aware that there has been a certain amount of disquiet about that programme and the way in which it was presented at that particular time. But matters of programme content are not for me.

My right hon. Friend may not have had any complaints about that programme but I certainly have. I she aware that from an examination of the transcript one can find eight specific and important errors of fact which were broadcast by the BBC in that programme? They relate, for instance, to cost, noise and facts about certain American airlines. Will my right hon. Friend use his powers to see that the BBC checks its facts from available evidence before putting out these programmes rather than taking convenient opinions which suit the case it is trying to put to the public?

That is very much a matter for the BBC. I have no doubt that the corporation will take careful note of what my hon. Friend has said.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications how many applications have been received to date for the operation of local commercial radio stations within the terms of the new Act; and if he will publish the detailed terms under which applicants have been successful in obtaining a purchase.

Only the Independent Broadcasting Authority, when it has come into legal existince on 12th July, will be able to consider applications for programme contracts. It will be the authority's responsibility to decide whether to make disclosures about numbers and other details beyond what is required of it by Section 10 of the Act.

I was aware that the Question was a little premature, but is the Minister aware that there is a fairly general welcome concerning the publica- tion of the fairly stringent conditions which have been laid down by the Independent Broadcasting Authority as to the allocation of franchises? Will he give an assurance that before franchises are granted, and in view of the experience of the television authorities with Harlech and Thames in particular, he will undertake to publish well beforehand the terms on which franchises are applied for and that he will take steps to ensure that the Independent Broadcasting Authority insists that those terms are kept meticulously by the people who gain the franchises?

As the hon. Gentleman will recognise, the authority is very much guided by the terms of the Act. Section 10 lays down the sort of information which is to be published by the authority.

Does my right hon. Friend accept that if the applicants are equal, there is nothing in the Act to stop the licences being distributed by public auction, in the same way as North Sea oil drilling rights were auctioned?

It will be for the authority to determine the manner in which programme contractors are to be selected.

For licences granted in Wales, will the Minister direct that a fair balance should be kept between the Welsh and English languages?

No question of direction arises here. This is a matter for the authority.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if, in order that independent local radio stations should serve recognisable communities and be firmly rooted in their localities, he will now state when he intends to make an announcement about such a station to serve Newport and Monmouthshire.

:Whilst agreeing with the objectives for independent local radio as stated by the hon. Member, it will be for the IBA to consider which stations should follow those I have already announced.

Can the Minister confirm that the proposed station for Cardiff will cover the whole of South-East Wales? If that is the case, there will be a great deal of resentment in Newport and Monmouthshire, which is an area of a rather different character. While commercial radio is a retrograde step, nevertheless, if it is to be, we want our own station for Newport and Monmouthshire and we do not wish to come under the umbrella of Cardiff.

The last part of the hon. Member's suggestion will certainly be borne in mind. We have announced that two stations are planned for that part of Wales and it is intended that they will be local stations. There is provision for up to 60 stations in all.

Will my right hon. Friend take note that for those of us who represent constituencies in Essex to have either Radio London or Radio Ipswich to choose between is not satisfactory?

Order. This Question deals with Wales, does it not?

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecomunciations whether he has now looked further into the non-delivery and non-return of the prayer book sent from England to Master Leonid Slepak in Moscow.

As I have explained to the hon. and learned Gentleman in a recent letter the prayer book was not sent by post, so that no question of interference with the mail arises in this case.

I appreciate not only the accuracy of that reply but also the Minister's kindly approach to this problem. As I have now received a bill for the delivery of the book, will the Minister be good enough to indicate where it was last seen and what the Government know about its whereabouts?

I am afraid I cannot help the hon. and learned Gentleman.

Is it not surprising that a great and apparently civilised Power should behave in this way?

Not in the least.

That is a matter for the consideration of the Power concerned.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will protest to the Government of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics about the interference of telephonic communications from Birmingham to certain Soviet citizens in their country.

:I would refer my hon. Friend to the answers I gave on 10th May and 7th June to the hon. and learned Member for Leicester, North-West (Mr. Greville Janner) and suggest that my hon. Friend may care in the first instance to send particulars to the Post Office.—[Vol. 836, c. 1292; Vol. 838, c. 440.]

:I appreciate that, but is my right hon. Friend aware that Mrs. Irina Markish, who made a polite demonstration on a court at Wimbledon earlier this week, is not now able to contact her husband in Russia by telephone and that this has brought to light other instances of friends and relatives who are in a like position? Has not this brought to light a situation so grave that the Government ought to act for humanitarian reasons and make the strongest possible protest to the Soviet authorities?

:There is a difficulty here in the existence of Article 32 of the ITU Convention which allows any member country to cut off without notice any telephone calls which may appear to it to be a threat to its security or public order. It is a matter for judgment whether this falls within that category.

Does the Minister consider that by any stretch of the imagination the cutting-off of these telephone calls could conceivably be because the calls are a threat to anyone in any way at any time?

No, Sir.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what is the total number of persons now waiting for residential telephones; and what is the average waiting period.

The Post Office informs me about 211,000 residential applicants were on the waiting list for telephones at the end of May. In 1971–72 the Post Office connected 1·3 million subscribers to the network, two-thirds within 20 days. Those placed on the waiting list had to wait on average about five months.

Is the Minister aware that a large number of people in my constituency have to wait nearly two years for telephones, in spite of the Herculean efforts of our excellent telephone manager, Mr. J. E. Dadswell? Is the Minister aware that this delay is apparently due to lack of cable? May I repeat my request for a factory to be established in Coatbridge and Airdrie to manufacture this cable and reduce the waiting period to a bare minimum?

I am aware that two of the hon. Gentlemen's constituents are known to have been on the waiting list for a period of nearly two years. I agree with him that that is a very long time indeed. I know that every effort is being made by the Post Office to try to correct this position.

If one sees advertisements daily which suggest that one should make great use of one's telephone, when one has been quoted nearly two years as the shortest waiting period—as happens to people in my constituency—one gets very cross with the telephone authorities and probably with the Minister. Will my right hon. Friend do his best to see that this period is cut during the next year so that people are not advertised at to use a service which they are longing to use but are unable to use?

I accept what my hon. Friend has said. There is nothing more frustrating that having been encouraged to install a telephone and to find that one has to wait what one regards as an over-long period for its installation. The fact remains, however—and we must recognise this—that the Post Office has every year been substantially increasing the number of telephones installed. What it has not yet matched is the very much larger increase in the rate of demand.

Will the Minister say to what extent the hold-up is caused by the delay in manufacturers providing exchange equipment?

There are a number of reasons for the delays. They arise from under-estimation of demand in the first instance, from delay in the completion of building work or the provision of lines, and from the very serious delays in the delivery and installation of exchange equipment. In the past all these have contributed to the build-up of the waiting lists and both I and the Post Office are determined to improve on the situation. No one is sitting back on it.

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in my constituency in this year of our Lord 1972 over 500 applicants for telephones have been waiting an interminable time and the excuse he gives has been given by his distinguished predecessors from time immemorial? It is time these weak excuses ceased to be given quite as regularly. May I respectfully suggest that from now on we introduce telephones into new housing estates in the way we introduce electricity, gas and water?

In reassuring my hon. Friend I can only repeat that no one is the least complacent about the situation. The position is very much the reverse. I am as anxious as everyone in the Post Office and in the manufacturing industry to see a steady improvement.

May I suggest to the Minister, as we suggested to his predecessor for many months, that the problem is basically that of investment? When does he intend to carry out the promise made by his predecessor to look at the whole problem of telecommunications investment anew and when does he hope that the delays will end?

My predecessor anounced in the House on 1st March that the Post Office was to increase its investment programme by £100 million to help meet rising demand and also, incidentally, to help reduce unemployment in particular areas. I cannot forecast when this situation of over-long waiting lists will change. But I hope I can impress upon the House that no one is hanging back and that there is a concerted effort to try to improve on it.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications when he intends to announce the establishment of a committee of inquiry into broadcasting.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will make a statement on the machinery for reviewing the future of broadcasting.

I hope to be in a position to announce a decision shortly.

:We are getting tired of the answer that the announcement will be made shortly. The Opposition treat television as of supreme social importance. We expect to have an announcement as quickly as possible that a full-scale inquiry is to be established by the Government in order that the future of television and sound broadcasting can be determined.

I am aware of the hon. Member's views. I am sorry that he is tired. As soon as I am ready to answer the Question I will do so.

:Can my right hon. Friend the Minister give any indication as to the form of the committee? It would be highly advantageous to have a fairly strong, yet compact, body, not dominated by any one group of individuals. Can he assure us that he will be able to look at the fundamental questions, such as whether the BBC's monopoly should be broken and the corporation dissected into smaller parts?

I take note of my hon. Friend's suggestion.

How shortly?

Before very long.

:Will the Minister give us an assurance that because of the special factors which he knows exist in Wales in relation to the language, there will be an urgent and special inquiry in respect of broadcasting in Wales?

:I have already taken note of the point, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, from having had the privilege of attending a debate in the Welsh Grand Committee.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will give a general direction to the Post Office for push-button field trials to be undertaken in areas outside London.

My information is that some trials are planned for areas outside London, and a general direction would not be appropriate.

:Is it true that one of these trials is in Manchester, and is not this another example of the central Government preferring Manchester to Merseyside?

The answer to the last part of the question is "No". Decisions about trials are for the Post Office and I suggest to my hon. Friend that, if he has not already done so, he should make his inquiries there.

Is it true that the mechanism which the Post Office has adopted for the push-button system will not speed things up very much? Would it not be better to have the American system of push-button dialling which does speed things up?

This is a matter for the Post Office which is planning its trials to discover the best system for this country.

For the general education of the House, can my right hon. Friend the Minister explain what is meant by push-button field trials?

It is an attempt to decide whether it would be easier for my hon. Friend to press a knob than to turn a dial.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what examination he has now given to alternative systems of finding the funds raised by television licences, in view of the evasion resulting from the present system.

:None, Sir. My hon. Friend may not be aware that at 31st March this year the estimated rate of evasion was 5·4 per cent. compared with 12·7 per cent. in January, 1966.

:We must all appreciate the improvement in the rate of detection, but is my right hon. Friend aware that the system of licensing is a temptation to many people and that the resultant use of espionage vans is alien to our way of life and repugnant to most of us? Will he therefore consider an alternative method of raising money?

:This is a matter to which I have referred before. The future financing of the BBC will fall appropriately in the context of decisions to be taken about the period after 1976.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will extend the limited concessions for refunds of television licences to provide for the unexpired portion of the television licence of a deceased person to be repaid to his executor.

:No, Sir. The law is that a licence is needed before a television set can be used at all. The fee is payable when a licence is issued irrespective of the period for which the licence is needed.

I realise that that is the law, but I want it changed. Why on earth should not the executors of someone who has paid for a service for 12 months, and who dies very shortly after, be reimbursed for the unexpired portion?

The difficulty arises in trying to keep the system of licensing as simple as possible. There are about 18 million licences and if we provided special measures of the kind my hon. Friend suggests the system would be very complex and very costly to administer.

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I give notice that I shall seek to raise the subject on the Adjournment.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications how many 5p concessionary television licence schemes are now in operation in old people's accommodation.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what is his latest estimate of the number of retired people who have benefited from television licence concessions.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications how many elderly persons at the latest available date were in receipt of television licences at concessionary rates; and what was the consequent total loss of revenue to the Exchequer.

At 30th April, 1972, there were 160,211 retired people benefiting from the special television licence for old persons' homes. The approximate cost of the concession is £1·1 million. I do not know the number of separate schemes this involves or how many retired people living in ordinary accommodation benefit from the £1·25 concessionary reduction for the registered blind. Nor do I know how many other pensioners may be receiving help from local authorities towards the cost of their licences.

:Does the Minister realise that this number is pitifully small when compared with the total number of old-age pensioners and that a great deal of upset and misunderstanding is caused by the drawing of the borderlines between those who get this concession and those who do not? Is it not time that we either gave this concession to all old-age pensioners or removed the charge for licences completely on production of the pension book?

To give the concession to all old-age pensioners would be very expensive. There is another Question on the Order Paper about that. I am looking at the matter of anomalies with a view to seeing whether there is any possibility of making progress here. The anomalies arise simply because this is a difficult matter to resolve.

:Does my right hon. Friend appreciate that this is a matter of very real consequence, and will he give more publicity to the terms on which licences are issued?

The main way of helping elderly retired people is through the cash grant of the retirement pension—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."]—and, as the House will know, this has been very carefully attended to during the past two years and substantial increases have taken place. I am sure this is the right way to proceed.

:Does the right hon. Gentleman remember that on 13th June lat year, in Standing Committee on a Private Member's Bill sponsored by one of his hon. Friends, an Amendment was moved and carried by seven votes to six to allow this 5p concessionary fee to all old people living on retirement pensions? In the name of justice, will he see that this is done?

Hon. Gentlemen are very free to use the expression "in the name of justice", and I understand that they feel strongly on a matter of this kind, but I think they must recognise that the total cost of the pension increases and related benefits over the last two years has gone up by more than £1,000 million. This is the way to deal with this problem, because it leaves choice to individual beneficiaries.

:While recognising that, if there are too many concessions on the licence fee, of course the licence fees would have to be increased, may I ask my right hon. Friend whether he could make a start by giving a concessionary fee to old-age pensioners who are given supplementary benefit? This would be a limited and worthy group.

If one were to pursue that line of reasoning one would have to recognise that there are people other than the elderly who draw supplementary benefit.

:Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are many on this side of the House at least who appreciate the logic of his reasoning, but does he not realise that the 5p concessionary licence is in itself a source of immense irritation to old people not living in old people's homes but living in conditions far worse and who are almost totally dependent on television, for which they have to pay the full licence fee?

Yes, I recognise the force of what the hon. Member says.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications, in view of the recent authorisation of the increase of Giro tariffs, whether it now remains his policy that the Post Office Giro shall be making a positive contribution to the overall finances of the Post Office within one year.

:The financial objective of Giro remains as stated by my predecessor in replying to my hon. Friend on 22nd March.—[Vol. 833, c. 1478.]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. May we understand that, unless the Giro is making a positive contribution to the finances of the Post Office by 1st July, 1973, its condition of decline, whether culpable or non-culpable, will be terminated?

The Post Office is confident that a reshaped Giro can be made to pay its way within the five-year target period.

When will the Minister refute these political and commercial knockers at Giro? Is he aware that the present financial difficulties facing the Post Office Giro would not have been quite the problem they are now had the Government had the courage to raise Giro charges at the appropriate time? Will the Minister take an early opportunity to do something to refute the allegations made by his hon. Friend the Member for South Angus (Mr. Bruce-Gardyne) and his political comrade the hon. Member for Worcestershire, South (Sir G. Nabarro) in their constant denigration of an essential national service?

The troubles that Giro has experienced have arisen very largely from the excessive optimism which accompanied its introduction during the tenure of office of the previous Government. I have no doubt that, now it sees its way clear ahead towards profitability, confidence in and support for Giro will grow.

What are the services which Giro provides at a loss which cannot be provided by other organisations at a profit?

Giro will increasingly be providing its facilities for transfer of money at a profit.

First, will the Minister help Giro by telling the House at some time the comparison between Giro charges and normal bank charges? Second, will he suggest that there should be a less complex system than that which operates at present? Third, will the Minister now reply to the question we have been putting to him for several weeks about Giro and Government Departments? Which Government Departments do not use Giro? Has the Minister asked them why they do not use it?

The last part of the hon. Gentleman's question is a matter for Government Departments. As to the first part, Giro has also been handicapped by the fact that it has been charging 1965 prices in 1972. It cannot be said to be competing fairly as long as its charges remain pegged at artificially low levels. This is why new proposals are coming into effect.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. As my right hon. Friend did not answer my supplementary question, I beg to give notice that I shall put it again in the near future.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will now announce the names of applicants for local cable television experimental relays; and which of these applications have been successful.

I am not yet in a position to do so.

Does the Minister realise that many of us believe that cable television could be a great blessing or could do enormous harm? When considering these applications, will the Minister exercise the maximum scrutiny over possible foreign holdings in the potential applicants? Will he also, in considering the performance of the successful companies, when he places these before an inquiry if an inquiry is to be held, consider the possibility of the Post Office taking over this relay system as common carrier after 1976?

:The conditions of the licence are still under consideration. I am pressing ahead with this and hope to make an announcement fairly soon.

:When the Minister makes an announcement will he do something that he did not do last week: will he come to the House and make the announcement here instead of putting it in as a written answer, as he did with the question of local commercial radio?

I am very happy always to respond to the convenience of the House.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will now give a general direction to the Post Office to ensure that callers who lose coins due to defects in Post Office call boxes be permitted to make calls up to the value of such coins on giving their names and addresses.

No, Sir. Telephone operating procedures are the concern of the Post Office.

:Is the Minister aware of the scandalously high proportion of wrong numbers got from call boxes through no fault of the callers, and does he not feel that members of the public should not be reduced to waiting for stamps in repayment to be sent to them? They want the calls they dial in the first place, and if they do not get them they are not getting from the Post Office the service for which they have paid.

:These are interesting points which, if he has not already done so, the hon. and learned Member may care to refer to the Post Office Users National Council.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will make a statement on the appointment of a new chairman for the British Broadcasting Corporation.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will now announce the name of the new chairman of the Governors of the British Broadcasting Corporation.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he is now in a position to announce the name of the next chairman of the British Broadcasting Corporation Governors.

I have nothing to add to my predecessor's reply on 9th February to my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast, North (Mr. Stratton Mills)—[Vol. 830, c. 1319.]

Is my right hon. Friend aware that the new chairman, when when appointed—it is hoped the announcement will be fairly soon—has a very important job to do in restoring public confidence in the BBC, and when making this appointment could my right hon. Friend make it perfectly clear that the chairman's role is, as it is supposed to have been in the past, to act as the protector of the public instead of as an apologist for interests inside the BBC?

The aim will certainly be to appoint the most suitable candidate available.

When the new chairman of the British Broadcasting Corporation is announced will the Minister impress upon him the necessity for him to permit the regions to play their full part in broadcasting in respect of both the policy to be adopted by the corporation and the policy for the programmes which are sent out, and which ought to be national programmes sent out from regional areas? Will the Minister further ensure that the chairman is made to know that the British Broadcasting Corporation is not the London broadcasting corporation, but is for the whole of the United Kingdom?

I have noted the hon. Gentleman's points.

Will my right hon. Friend agree that the British Broadcasting Corporation is in fact the people's broadcasting corporation and not the private domain of those who work for it, and will he ensure that the chairman stands up for the people's rights and not merely for the rights of those who work within the authority?

I take note of my hon. Friend's suggestion.

In case this matter be left in an untidy condition, since the dialogue has now started at Question Time, may I ask what possesses the Minister to sit there and allow smears of this kind to be put on the Order Paper? What evidence is there, for example, to enable the hon. Member to say "restore the confidence of the British public in the BBC"? That is to suggest that the British public have no confidence in the BBC, and I do not think that is true. Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that while I and some of my hon. Friends may have individual criticisms of certain policies of the British Broadcasting Corporation, the BBC has world confidence, apart from British confidence, and is superior to any other broadcasting corporation in the world?

It is helpful to have the views of all members of the public, including those of the hon. Gentleman.

asked the Minister for the Civil Service if he will remove the words "Britain, like the best hotels, clubs and restaurants, can't afford to allow everyone through its doors" from the advertisement for immigration officers.

I have done so, Sir. These words will certainly not be used in future advertisements.

Will the hon. Gentleman accept my thanks for that and make sure that future advertisements are cleared by someone other than an advertising quack using language appropriate to his profession?

The procedure is that when an advertisement first appears the form of the words is approved by the sponsoring Department. When there is a change, usually of a small nature, it is approved by the Civil Service Commission, but I have given instructions to the commission in future to refer to the sponsoring Department any change of this sort in copy for advertisements.

:The hon. Gentleman will be aware that he has the whole House behind him in this repudiation which he has given to this House. It is obvious that there was an error on the part of the civil servant or whatever individual wrote the wording. The House will be grateful for the hon. Gentleman's reply.

asked the Minister for the Civil Service how many Government Departments have submitted complaints to the British Broadcasting Corporation Programmes Complaints Commission.

None, Sir.

Is my hon. Friend aware that that is hardly surprising as the terms of reference of the Complaints Commission are so narrow that at the last count out of 38 complaints that were made 36 were ruled as being beyond the terms of reference? Does not that make the Complaints Commission something of a farce? Will he use his influence in the Government to try to persuade them to follow the rest of Europe by setting up the sort of commission in which the public can have confidence, in which frustration is not evident and through which they can make complaints along reasonable lines and feel that their complaints will receive reasonable replies?

This Commission was set up by the BBC to deal with complaints from individuals among the public. In this Question, I am concerned only from the point of view of whether various Departments have complained to the commission. I personally do not think that is it a very appropriate commission for Ministers or Departments to complain to if they feel they are being treated less than fairly by one of the media. I think they can look after themselves.

Will the hon. Gentleman accept that some of us still think that the people responsible for dealing with complaints should be the chairman and the Board of Governors of the BBC and that we welcome the vigorous way in which the Chairman of the BBC has dealt with complaints?

I will draw the remarks of the hon. Member to the attention of my right hon. Friend who has responsibility in these matters.

Does not my hon. Friend agree that the commission does exist and that if not many complaints come into it there cannot be any suggestion that if it were changed there would be any more complaints?

I will draw my hon. Friend's comments to the attention of my right hon. Friend responsible for these matters. My responsibility in the matter concerns whether individual Government Departments happen to complain to the commission. I am not concerned with the terms of reference or method of operation of the commission.

asked the Minister for the Civil Service what estimate he has made of the effect of the Boyle Committee recommendations on recruitment to the higher Civil Service.

:There is little direct recruitment to the Higher Civil Service. The Review Body is now making in-depth studies of the groups covered by the Report, and no doubt one of the factors it will wish to examine is the longer-term effects on Civil Service recruitment of pay rates at the top of the Service.

Is my hon. Friend aware that I am most grateful for that answer?

My hon. Friend is aware that I am grateful that he tabled the Question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what steps the Government propose to take to reduce the rate of increase in local government expenditure, with a view to minimising rate increases.

:My right hon. Friend will be discussing the rate of growth of expenditure with representatives of local authorities later this year in connection with the determination of rate support grant for 1973–74. At those discussions, full account will be taken of the need to minimise rate increases as well as of the increasing demands for education, personal social services and other local authority services, and the increased wages and other costs which authorities are having to bear.

Whilst I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that encouraging reply, is he aware that over the past 10 years rates as a proportion of the national income have risen from 3·9 per cent. to 4·8 per cent., which represents an almost intolerable burden on many of my constituents in Horn church, who, because they live in a largely residential area, pay even more in rates than do most other people?

I am aware that rates have risen in this way, but so also have the demands for higher quality of services and the support from central Government.

May I ask the hon. Gentleman to do nothing to discourage local authorities from going ahead with vital social developments in their areas, especially in areas of special need?

These matters will be discussed by my right hon. Friend later in the year.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will consider placing a 50 miles per hour limit on the new stretch of the M1–M5–M6 link way where it runs through the City of Birmingham, to overcome the complaints by residents of the noise nuisance.

I do not consider that this would provide a solution. But my right hon. Friend is urgently studying the noise situation here.

I am grateful for my hon. Friend's reply. I hope he will look very seriously at the suggestion. Something must be done to help the residents in the area. If my hon. Friend will look into the provision of some other form of noise baffle, we shall be most grateful to him.

The first thing is to determine the exact extent of the problem. I hope that local residents will take up our invitation in which we have said that we are quite prepared to go into their homes to conduct noise level tests.

Will the Minister bear in mind that while a speed limit may not be the complete solution—I do not suppose for a moment that it will be—it will at any rate contribute towards mitigating the great hardship that areas adjacent to the motorway in Birmingham are experiencing? Surely a limit of 50 m.p.h. or even 40 m.p.h. will make very little difference to the total time it takes the motorist to get through?

I note what the hon. Gentleman says. We must first determine the full scale of the problem. There is the very real problem of enforcing such speed limits at these sections of motorway. I would not wish to give the police an even more difficult task than they already have. These matters are all being looked into.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what time period he is allowing for local authorities to respond to Circular 54/70 and the further circular dated 13th June, 1972, relating to the sale of council houses.

Circular 56/72and the addendum issued on 26th June have re-emphasised the importance which my right hon. Friend attaches to this matter. The response of local authorities will be seen in the number of houses they sell, and we expect the 1972 total to exceed the record number sold in 1971.

:I thank my hon. Friend for that reply, but he has not answered the Question, which concerned the time period he is allowing local authorities. I represent an enlightened council, which is readily selling council houses. Will my hon. Friend force councils which are not selling, which are not giving the opportunity to council tenants to buy their own houses, to do so? After all, that was part of our manifesto.

We shall have to allow a reasonable time for local authorities to study the Circular, to take note of my right hon. Friend's views and to develop their policies.

:If the hon. Gentleman is at any time sending out a Circular further to those referred to, will he include a passage urging councils such as Southampton, where the waiting list for council houses is growing every year, to get on and build a few council houses?

The Government's policy is to encourage local authorities to build houses to rent in cases of need. They will be assisted in that under the reforms in the Housing Finance Bill.

:Will the hon. Gentleman undertake that before taking any action on the circular he will make a detailed survey of the numbers of applicants for council houses and their conditions? Does not he agree that it is wholly unrealistic to come to any judgment of the situation before examining the condition of scores of thousands of our fellow countrymen who are in dire need of public sector housing?

The hon. Gentleman should remember that it is the duty of local authorities to consider their local circumstances. Councils can and should both meet the wishes of their tenants who want to buy and meet the requirements of those who need houses to rent.

Instead of compulsory sales, would not it be better if the Government dropped their rent increase proposals, which are what make such sales of any interest? Is it not a fact that this is a gimmick, because until last year when the rent increase proposals were announced, sales were only 6,000 a year out of nearly 6 million council houses? They rose to 20,000 only when the White Paper on higher rents was published?

I cannot accept the hon. Gentleman's remarks, because the reforms under the Housing Finance Bill will enable local authorities, especially in those areas where there is real housing need, to deal much more effectively with those problems. Furthermore, the hon. Gentleman underrates the genuine upsurge in feeling about home ownership. That is why people want to buy their own homes.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what discussions he has had with the Football League requesting it to participate in or initiate a league of European football clubs.

I have discussed a wide variety of topics with the football organisations, both formally and informally.

Is the hon. Gentleman not denying the Daily Mirror report on 29th May of a private meeting in his flat, when he tried to persuade the Football League to launch a European league? Will he give an assurance that he is not trying to introduce politics into sport by trying to persuade football supporters of the advantages of the Common Market? What answer did he receive from the Football League?

I remind the hon. Gentleman that when this country arrives in the Common Market it will find that British football was there long before it. I do not believe that it is a matter for the Government one way or the other to influence the football organisations in the management of their own affairs. However, I believe personally that with improved communications and the increasing rôle of television, some kind of European league is inevitable and that Britain can play an important part in it.

:My hon. Friend will have noticed in the newspapers this morning that the trade unions have said that they are joining a European trade union league. If the football clubs go in and the trade unions are in, does not that leave the Labour Party very far behind?

I agree with my hon. Friend that it does not need the trade unions to remind us that the Labour Party is a very long way behind on Europe.

:Is the Minister prepared to intervene to reduce the pollution being caused to our national life by overcrowded fixture lists, which are producing acute indigestion, at least on the part of the hon. Member for Feltham (Mr. Russell Kerr)?

:That is very much a matter for the football organisations themselves. I do not believe that it is a matter for the Government, which is exactly what the hon. Gentleman's hon. Friend the Member for Bassetlaw (Mr. Ashton) has just been complaining about.

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether he will seek powers to strengthen the legal powers that local authorities have to enforce housing improvements and disrepair notices.

No, Sir. My right hon. Friend has no evidence that the existing powers are inadequate.

Surely the Minister is aware of the long and complicated procedures that local authorities have to face in seeking court orders for houses in disrepair? Is it not possible for the Minister to introduce legislation imposing on landlords a time limit within which the work must be done, failing which the local authority should be able to do it? Will the Minister bear in mind that it is the tenant, not the landlord, who suffers from having to live in a house which the landlord will not repair?

Local authorities have power to serve notices and to carry out the statutory procedures, and it is for local authorities to act in the interests of their local tenants.

:There are powers in the hands of local authorities, but will the Minister accept that some areas of our cities have special problems of disrepair and sub-standard conditions which local authorities are finding great difficulty in tackling? Will he consider the introduction of the special control area arrangements that were first mooted by the Milner Holland Report some years ago?

The hon. Gentleman is right in saying that there are urban areas which have special problems, but the Secretary of State has not received representations from local authority associations about difficulties. In the event that representations were made, my right hon. Friend would, of course, carefully consider them.